1:49:54Cole Gordon · Interview
Content vs Ads: Experts Debate Which Is Better in 2026
A timed, poolside debate where Cole Gordon pits his own CMO against an organic-agency founder over one question: which $10M business is worth more?
July 3rdThe argument in one line.
For most online service businesses, setter performance is not a talent problem but a systems problem: give each setter enough curated inbound leads, work them in a strict recency-frequency-value priority order, and pay on closed sets within a 15% labor margin.
Read if. Skip if.
READ IF YOU ARE…
- A coach, agency, or online service business owner past roughly $1M/year who books sales calls from paid or organic marketing and wants to add or fix an appointment-setting team.
- A sales manager or setter manager who keeps hearing 'my setters aren't performing' and cannot tell whether it is leads, talent, training, or process.
- A founder deciding how many setters to hire, how many leads each needs, and what to pay them without blowing up the P&L.
- An operator who already has a setting team and wants the advanced dialing logic, peak-call-time, and pipeline-setter mechanics that lift pickup and set rates.
SKIP IF…
- You sell only to Fortune 500 companies with a tiny market and six-figure contracts, where a cold-outbound SDR/ABM motion actually fits.
- You have no inbound marketing generating leads yet — there is nothing for an MDR setter to work.
- You want a legal treatment of TCPA compliance; the video repeatedly says to consult an attorney.
The full version, fast.
Almost every successful online service business runs an MDR model, where setters work inbound leads from marketing rather than cold outbound. Getting them to perform comes down to a few levers: give each setter enough curated opportunity flow (roughly 800-900 opt-ins per setter per month on a call funnel, targeting 80-110 sets), and stop berating them to dial every lead a fixed number of times. Instead run a dialing algorithm that prioritizes leads by recency, frequency, value, and peak call time — always working the freshest, highest-value buckets first. Automate the first text and email so speed-to-lead stays under five minutes, keep setters off triaging every direct booking (the math loses money), monitor actual working time because sets have diminishing marginal returns, and pay on closed sets inside a 15% combined sales-labor margin, ideally via a short draw then 100% commission.
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00:00 – 04:05
01 · Course intro & what's covered
Credentials, the full curriculum (MDR vs SDR, dialing algorithms, scripts, comp), and a pitch for the SDA program document.
04:05 – 17:38
02 · MDR vs SDR outbound models
Defines the two real outbound models, the personalization-vs-volume spectrum, base-salary logic by sales-cycle length, and why nearly everyone should run MDR.
17:38 – 30:40
03 · MDR revenue models & curated opportunity flow
Why setters need a conveyor belt of curated leads, and the common funnels: call funnel, low-ticket, low-ticket + implementation call, DM setting, live event.
30:40 – 41:50
04 · How many leads per setter per month
The four-step formula (set OTE, start at benchmark, add setters/cut leads, measure) plus benchmarks like 800-900 opt-ins per setter targeting 80-110 sets.
41:50 – 52:44
05 · Draws & should setters take direct bookings
Using a guaranteed draw when lead flow is thin, and the money-losing math of routing every direct booking through a setter (with the rare valid exceptions).
52:44 – 55:50
06 · The triage capacity problem
How triage bookings silently eat a setter's day so new leads go unworked, and splitting into a triage team and a net-new-leads team.
55:50 – 1:05:20
07 · Setter KPIs, speed to lead & activity
The call-funnel KPI ladder, set/close and show-rate benchmarks, speed-to-lead as the #1 KPI, and tracking working time instead of raw dials.
1:05:20 – 1:30:43
08 · Dialing logic, peak call time & pipeline setters
The recency-frequency-value-peak-time algorithm, highest-to-lowest lead buckets, the old manual CRM/Slack way vs an automated dialer, and the pipeline-setter role.
1:30:43 – 2:15:00
09 · The scripts: text, email & call
Full texting, email, and phone scripts — outbound vs triage calls, the intro/discovery/transition/qualify flow, chunking down, buyer, no-show, and pipeline variations.
2:15:00 – 2:30:28
10 · Troubleshooting common mistakes
No baseline, setters getting no love, lack of lead flow, the rule of two, no texting, unmonitored work time, diminishing returns, underpaying, and low show rates.
2:30:28 – 2:43:21
11 · How to compensate your setters
OTE tiers, the 15%/13%/11% gross-margin rule, backing out a per-closed-set commission, draw-then-100%-commission, and two foolproof comp templates.
Lines worth screenshotting.
- 99.99% of successful online service businesses run MDR (working inbound leads), not SDR (cold outbound) — SDR only fits huge-contract, tiny-market enterprise offers.
- The benchmark to hire another setter on a VSL call funnel is about 800-900 opt-ins per setter per month, and any funnel tops out around 80-110 sets per setter per month.
- Sending every direct booking to a setter first loses money: an example that looks generous still drops cash collected from $175k to $154k while forcing you to spend more on ads to refill the closer's calendar.
- For setter-first triage to merely break even against going direct to closer at 25%, the closer would have to close 45.4%.
- The single highest-value lead to call is not a new lead — it is a lead who just texted you back; call immediately, then text.
- Speed to lead is exponential: call within five minutes versus sixty and the lead is roughly 10x more likely to set; studies cited show 10-25x higher responsiveness in the first five minutes.
- Monitoring minimum dials per day is the wrong KPI — a setter can make 20 dials and get 7 sets on high-answer-rate days; track combined talk-plus-dial working time (~6.5-7 hours) instead.
- Sets have super-linear (diminishing) marginal returns: in the example, the last set of the day eats 30% of the setter's total time and the last two sets eat 53%.
- A remote setter often hits 5-6 sets in only 4-5 hours; forcing a full day may add just two sets, but across six setters that is 264 extra appointments a month.
- Rigidly forcing setters to dial every lead a fixed number of times for 14 days tanked a team's performance in a week — frequency obsession beats the proper value-priority logic.
- Set-to-close rate should run 20-30% higher than your ads-call close rate; if sets close lower than ads calls, your setters simply are not good.
- Raising setter comp ~30% (often just $3k/month more) unlocks an entirely different tier of talent and paid for itself many times over.
- Keep combined setter+closer labor under 15% of front-end gross margin — 13% is standard (3% setter, 10% closer), 11% is elite.
- Pipeline setters work day-5-to-90 old leads, need far more leads each (e.g. 3,000/month), and should earn 15-25% less as a junior bench role.
- One client added about $10M/year simply by dialing old leads already sitting in the CRM.
- Never let the closer or closer-manager manage setters — they push over-qualification, which lowers show rates and leads-per-set.
- Qualify covertly during discovery and save any hard qualifying for after the appointment is booked, or you create a self-fulfilling 'they weren't qualified' prophecy.
- Automate the first text and email so they read like a personal message from the setter (broken into multiple 'sends'), not a marketing blast.
Setter performance is a system you build, not talent you find.
WHAT TO LEARN
Most 'my setters aren't performing' problems trace to lead supply, dialing order, or comp — fix those and average people produce.
02MDR vs SDR outbound models
- Run the MDR model (work warm inbound leads) unless you sell only to a tiny market of huge-contract companies; cold-outbound SDR rarely gets an online service business past $2M.
- Match base salary to sales-cycle length: transactional, high-volume offers pay near-100% commission, while long enterprise cycles justify high base — the same logic sets setter comp.
03MDR revenue models & curated opportunity flow
- A setter only performs if given curated opportunity flow: consistent daily leads from one source with a clear conversion SOP — not a Facebook group and a 'go farm' instruction.
- The same setter workflow covers call funnels, low-ticket, low-ticket + implementation call, and DM setting; learn the call funnel and you can adapt the rest.
04How many leads per setter per month
- Size the team with a formula, not a guess: set target OTE, start at the leads-per-setter benchmark, then add setters until your best people's pay would dip below target.
- Use benchmarks as a floor to hire the next setter — roughly 800-900 opt-ins per setter on a call funnel, and expect every funnel to cap around 80-110 sets per setter per month.
05Draws & should setters take direct bookings
- Do not route every direct booking through a setter; the math loses money and empties the closer's calendar. Only two-grade (borderline) applications should hit a setter first.
- When lead flow can't yet support a full setter, hire anyway on a guaranteed draw and prorate it — you attract better talent while you scale volume.
06The triage capacity problem
- Split larger teams so one group only takes triages and another only works net-new leads, or triage bookings will quietly consume the day while fresh leads go uncontacted.
07Setter KPIs, speed to lead & activity
- Speed to lead is the number-one KPI: automate the first text and email so contact happens under five minutes, because responsiveness drops exponentially with every minute.
- Track combined talk-plus-dial working time, not raw dials — a setter can post good sets in half a day, and sets have diminishing returns, so the extra hours are where hidden volume lives.
08Dialing logic, peak call time & pipeline setters
- Prioritize dialing by recency, frequency, value, and peak call time; the freshest, highest-value lead (someone who just texted back) beats grinding old leads on a rigid cadence.
- Rescue old leads with a separate pipeline-setter team working day 5-90 at high volume — one operator added roughly $10M/year just by dialing the CRM's dead leads.
09The scripts: text, email & call
- Coach tonality before scripts; a setter who sounds like an intelligent, positive human beats a perfect script delivered flatly, because the outbound-call baseline is so bad.
- Qualify covertly in discovery and save any hard qualifying until after the appointment is booked, so you don't hand the prospect a reason to disqualify themselves.
10Troubleshooting common mistakes
- Set a baseline by setting for a day yourself before blaming the team — you'll usually diagnose leads, training, or talent within a few hours.
- Give setters the same meetings, call reviews, and dedicated management you give closers, and never let the closer or closer-manager run them.
11How to compensate your setters
- Keep combined setter+closer labor under 15% of front-end gross margin, pay on closed sets (never sets or shows), and use a short draw then 100% commission so your best people earn the most.
- Raising comp ~30% often just a few thousand a month unlocks a different tier of talent that pays for itself; err stingy so you can later be the good guy who gives a raise.
Terms worth knowing.
- MDR (Marketing Development Rep)
- A setter who works warm inbound leads generated by marketing (opt-ins, applications, buyers, DMs). This is the model Cole says nearly all online service businesses should use.
- SDR (Sales Development Rep)
- A rep who does true cold outbound — cold lists, cold email, LinkedIn, cold calling — with no inbound marketing behind it, driving a short triage appointment for an account executive.
- BDR (Business Development Rep)
- The third outbound type, focused on strategic partnerships, affiliates, and joint ventures rather than direct client acquisition.
- Curated opportunity flow
- A system that generates new leads daily from the same source under the same context with a clear SOP to convert them — the 'conveyor belt' a setter needs to actually perform.
- Setter / Closer
- A setter books and triages qualified appointments; a closer runs the full sales call and takes payment. Setters drive net-new appointments, they do not do the closer's job.
- Triage call
- A call on a pre-booked appointment (a two-grade app or a lead who booked via the setter's link) where the setter re-qualifies before passing to a closer.
- Two-grade application
- In a 1-4 app-grading system, a borderline lead that is not auto-canceled (a 1) or sent straight to a closer (3-4). Twos route to a setter to be re-qualified — the only direct bookings a setter should take.
- On-track earnings (OTE)
- A sales term for the expected total pay a rep earns if they hit KPIs, since much of the role is commission. Setter OTE ranges roughly $5k-$12k/month.
- Draw
- A guaranteed pay floor for a set period. If commission falls short of the draw you top it up; if commission exceeds it, they just earn the commission. Used to reduce early-hire churn.
- Speed to lead
- How fast a new lead is contacted after opting in. The single most important setter KPI; target is under five minutes for texts (24/7) and calls (during business hours).
- Peak call time
- The statistically highest answer-rate hours for your market, found from historical answer-rate data. Scheduling dials into these hours can lift production ~50%.
- Pipeline setting
- A separate team that works old leads (roughly day 5 to day 90) already sitting in the CRM, using a high-volume dialer since answer rates are lower.
- Chunking down
- A discovery technique of turning a vague complaint ('I need more leads') into a specific, concrete fact ('one appointment in 30 days') to surface the real problem and pain.
- Need-payoff question
- A discovery question that asks the prospect to imagine the problem solved ('if you had five ideal calls a day, what would you close and what's the revenue?') to build motivation before booking.
Things they pointed at.
50:00toolSalesKick (AI sales coordinator / SMS)
1:15:50toolAloware + HubSpot (old dialing tech stack)
1:16:00toolGoHighLevel (GHL)
1:16:00tooldialer OS (overlay for other dialers)
11:40toolZoomInfo / Seamless / Apollo (cold-list sources for SDR)
1:23:20toolClawCode (Claude Code, for peak-call-hour analysis)
1:15:20linkEdward Stranks (setup consultant for dialing logic)
00:25productSDA program (scripts, docs, deeper trainings)
33:00productCole 1-on-1 business audit
1:28:40linkScotland event (end of July, $100k/mo+ to qualify)
1:23:20channelTom (mastermind client who added ~$10M from old leads)
2:33:20channelacquisition.com (brand example for closer-as-setter hires)
Lines you could clip.
00:12
“I created three multiple 8-figure companies totaling a combined $150,000,000 in cash collected revenue.”
1:09:40
“Your highest value lead actually is calling people who just texted you back. It's actually not the new leads.”
1:00:00
“Speed to lead is by far the number one most important KPI you can measure for all your setters.”
2:23:20
“The last set alone is gonna take 30% of their entire effort and time of that day.”
1:25:00
“Why would they care about calling a five day old lead if a new one just came in or a new one just texted them back?”
1:46:40
“Most setters, when you're reviewing their calls, their tonality is zero out of ten. Your setter sounds like they're drunk.”
2:34:20
“Increasing the pay doesn't mean much to you, but it gets you an entirely different trough of talent.”
Word for word.
Read-along
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00:00I created three multiple 8 figure companies totaling a combined a 150,000,000 in cash collected revenue. And in each of those companies, a huge part of our revenue, probably 75,000,000 plus, came from our outbound appointment setting teams.
00:12And so after consulting 3,000 plus sales teams on how to build their outbound appointment setting teams over the past seven years in our sales training company closed audio, I boiled down everything I've learned about building high level appointment setting teams into this video you're gonna watch right now. And so it's gonna cover everything from hiring your first setter to be able to build a team that's able to produce over a 100,000,000 per year.
00:35So specifically, we're gonna cover the difference between MDR and SDR setting models. We're to cover setter systems for call funnels, low ticket funnels, DM setting funnels, live event, challenge funnels, and webinars.
00:45We're gonna talk about how many lead you should give your setters per month, how to get instantaneous speed to lead, why monitoring dials per day per setter is wrong and what to do instead, as well as dialing algorithms based on recency, frequency, value, and peak call time, which is the most important thing you can learn from this training period.
01:01If you watch that, that's all you would need to watch. We'll give you all the outbound scripts, text scripts, email scripts. We'll talk about AI setting tools, and so much more.
01:10So with that being said, we're gonna splice into a training I recently did for private clients. I hope you enjoy. If you want this document, um, this is in our SDA program.
01:19So if you're watching this on YouTube and you want a document like this, as well as tons of other trainings, you can check out our SDA program. Link is in the description. Now let's actually start with the training.
01:28So how do we define outbound? Which, really, there's two outbound models. There's well, there's really three, but we're only gonna cover There's MDR models, and there's SDR models.
01:37Those are the two major types of outbound appointment setting. So what is an MDR? What is an SDR?
01:43Well, an MDR is a marketing development rep. Okay?
01:46We'll cover that what that says in a second. SDRs are sales development reps. Okay?
01:51Now sometimes they're called BDRs, which is business development reps. That's actually the third one. That's more of like business development.
01:57So generating strategic partnerships, affiliate relationships, and JVs. So that's a BDR team. Those are the three fundamental outbound teams.
02:03Okay? Now, we're not going to touch them at all on this training. We're really going to focus on MDRs, and you're going understand why in a second.
02:10But to kind of set that up, I need to tell you what SDR systems actually are. So sales development reps and SDR systems is what you traditionally think about when you think about outbound.
02:20Okay? So what does this actually look like? Well, it looks like you're building a cold list.
02:25These people have no idea who you are. You're maybe buying it from ZoomInfo, Seamless, Apollo, or whatever. And then, um, you might build it, or, uh, you're buying it, or a team of VAs actually might build it manually.
02:36Okay? And then once you have this cold list of people who have no idea who you are, your reps do outbound on that cold list. And usually, it's a combination of cold email outreach, LinkedIn outreach, or true cold calling.
02:46And the goal of that is to really usually drive a fifteen minute appointment, which is like a little triage, and then set it for an account executive, which is an AE. This is very common in like mid market and enterprise software. And so they are not working in conjunction.
02:59This is very key for this one, for m for SDRs. They're not working in conjunction with any sort of inbound marketing effort. That's MDRs, which we're gonna cover in a second.
03:08Okay? So SDRs also operate on a spectrum, and this is very important to understand. There's low volume, high personalization, multichannel.
03:17And then on the other side of the spectrum is high volume, low personalization, and channel focus. And what dictates where you fall on the spectrum is dictated on your TAM, which is your market size, your LTV, which is how much your client's worth, and also the accessibility of the client on certain channels.
03:34So let me give you two examples. So example number one is if your target market is Fortune 500 companies, and your LTV is over a 100 k, so like an enterprise software. So here, the SDRs are essentially using what's called an ABM function, so an account based marketing function, where their entire marketing strategy is created for one specific client, and the campaign can last years.
03:54So if you ever heard, like, Russell Brunson or a lot of these other people talk about, like, the dream 100, you know, Chet Holmes talks about this, That's this type of approach, right, to where you're literally creating a whole marketing campaign for one person. Right? That's because that one person could be worse so much, and the market size is so small.
04:09So that's where your approach is on that other side of the spectrum. It's gonna be hyper personalized, low volume, and over a very long time horizon, and it's gonna have to be multichannel.
04:18Like, might be LinkedIn, cold email, direct mail, trade shows, cold calling. Like, in stuff like this, the rep who's responsible for that account will like track them down and show up at events they know they're gonna be at and try to get a meeting at the event. Right?
04:30Like it's that level of touch. Right? Because again, the clients are worth so much.
04:35Now, example number two is, let's say you're going after real estate agents who advertise on Zillow and is a $10,000 LTV. Okay? So here you might see a higher or so here you might see a higher volume of outbound approach.
04:48So for example, because there's so many real estate agents and because your your LTV is still not that high, what you're more likely to do a post like an ABM approach is a scaled automated cold email campaign with, like, very minor personalization. So you might personalize the first line, which sometimes you can do that through AI, and then the rest of it is a template.
05:06And then you're just mass sending that out in a way that maximizes deliverability and etcetera. And if you want a training on that, we also have that training in the SDA portal. It's not going to be in here.
05:14But essentially, you're mass sending that out with minor personalization. It's all driving the fifteen minute appointments.
05:20And then maybe, you know, you could have, if they open the email, it triggers into the list for the SDR to actually call them. So it's creating a little bit of an inbound based on engagement or link clicks or whatever. And so you'd have like a scaled automated campaign for that.
05:33The SDR is playing some cleanup, and then they're doing the triage. And then you probably do something similar with LinkedIn. Like there's ways to automate LinkedIn campaigns at scale or do it with VAs, and it's a bunch of messages that's driving to a fifteen minute appointment.
05:45Okay? And so again, like I already mentioned, there's cool ways you can do this where you can have the engaged leads zap into a list for the SDRs based on email opens, email replies, LinkedIn responses.
05:58And so the SDRs can trigger a warm call, like, hey, I just saw you open the email, whatever. Okay?
06:03So, anyways, SDR model, pros and cons. So the pros is it's great for if you have, like, a 100 k LTV type companies and a really small TAM. Okay?
06:12It's also very good for going up market. You know? So, like, let's say you're a 10 to $20,000,000 company and you're focusing on small businesses, but you wanna go mid market or enterprise or drastically raise your price AOV LTV, this is the type of thing a lot of software companies, for instance, use to be able to do that.
06:29And it's very, very scalable if it's validated. So outbound scales in a linear fashion, right, where ad scales in basically like a reverse exponential fashion, where you get massive growth in the beginning, and then it starts to flatten out and out at scale.
06:44Okay? Now what are the cons of this approach? So the cons is, is the appointment and deal frequency per rep is lower, which means you have a higher base salary.
06:54Okay? So think about this. Anytime appointment and deal frequency is lower, it means higher base salary.
07:00Anytime appointment and deal frequency is higher, it means lower or even no base salary. Okay?
07:06So as a side note, like, the different way to think about this is if, let's say, you were doing a weight loss offer, that's a highly transactional sale where most everything is a one call close.
07:19And it's also generally very high volume. So that is on the other side of the extreme spectrum, where they're going to have a 100% commission and no base. Right?
07:27Whereas if you're going after enterprises that have a nine month sales cycle, it's going to be very, very high base, like maybe 80% base, and then the rest is bonuses paid out quarterly or what have you.
07:37Does that make sense, like, for enterprise type of stuff? And so the longer your sales cycle is, higher base, the shorter it is, the more transactional it is, less base, low base. Okay?
07:46That was a little bit of an aside. So SDR models should be used really for more of these mid market enterprise level functions, because, again, those companies are harder to access via ads. And then also to really make the economics work on these models, you have to have a high AOV and a high LTV, which is where s d or the SDR model really comes in play.
08:06Right? Again, because the frequency is low, salaries are high, etcetera. And the last con of SDR models is it's really hard to crack.
08:12It's much harder to crack than MDR models and even harder to really crack at scale. So in my experience, doing it for services like recruiting or professional services can be very tough because it's so competitive. It tends to work way better in tech, in SaaS, where you have, like, maybe a more new product, new category, and you're going after mid market plus.
08:29And the thing is is a lot of people, even if you go after SMBs and you crack it, like, lot of people do that on LinkedIn, what my experience has been with clients is 99% of those people, they can't get past 2,000,000 a year with that model because the economics start to break. Okay? So we're gonna move on to marketing development reps, so MDRs.
08:46So these reps capitalize on inbound leads generated from marketing. So these can be paid driven, like VSL webinar lead magnet, etcetera.
08:55They could be content driven, like, it's the same thing, but it's coming from your IG or your YouTube, and that might go to an opt in or a PDF or a VSL or whatever. They can be event driven, like, could speak on stage in an event you're sponsoring or somebody who actually gave you their stage and you're speaking. And it's like, hey.
09:10You know, here's a barcode. You can opt in for this thing at the end of the talk. It's totally free.
09:14Here you go. Or DM me on Instagram for this thing. It's only for you guys.
09:17So that can actually generate leads. But, it's coming from some sort of marketing, and then the leads are coming in for some sort of lead magnet or even just intently reached it reaching out for the offer.
09:29Like, they're very intent driven. They're actually opting in for the offer itself. So they can be intent based or non intent based.
09:35So the leads opt in for some sort of lead magnet, and then they're assigned round robin to the MDRs, and then the MDRs are gonna contact them through phone, text, which could be also automated through AI or or just pure automation, which we'll talk about way later. And same with the same with email, which is definitely gonna be automated or through AI.
09:54Now both with the text and email, and we're gonna, again, cover this in detail in a little bit, the text and the email aren't marketing blasts. It should be as if they're coming from that specific rep that the lead was delegated to.
10:05Okay? Then they can they're gonna triage a lead after they contact them. So that's either gonna happen upon contact if it's off of a cold call, or they might, through email or text, set a fifteen minute set appointment, then run that appointment, and then set for a closer.
10:19Okay? If that doesn't make sense, we're gonna go into way more detail on that later. So the best setting teams, and this is gonna be a huge part of the training, they have advanced dialing logic.
10:28And the way to think about what I mean by dialing logic is it's like a algorithm of how you dial. And so good dialing logic forces maximum lead to set efficiency by forcing the setters to focus on leads in a way that optimally prioritizes a couple of things.
10:43Recency, which is how new the lead is. Frequency, which is how many times we contact the lead, which is gonna be day dependent because of recency. Right?
10:51We're gonna contact them more often the newer they are, and less often the older they are. And then we're also gonna factor into our algorithm value. So we wanna factor in specific factors that could be totally different depending on the company you're running.
11:04But for instance, let's say you're doing credit scores and you're getting liquidity on every single opt in or lead that you have. So if you know what their credit score is of every single opt in, you could factor that into your dialing logic and hit more frequency on the better quality leads.
11:19Same thing if it's a low ticket thing and you're doing purchase value or AOV if you're getting buyers and so on and so forth. You could have a longer form of applications they're filling out, and then based on that, that could get weighted and graded, And then that can factor into the algorithm to where those get weighted to be able to hit more in the algorithm.
11:34Okay? So this is all gonna make sense way more later. And it's also the part where it's gonna get a little complicated if you're new.
11:41Okay? And if you are new, don't worry about this too too much. If you have one setter, it's not gonna be that big of a deal.
11:47Two setters, really not that big of a deal. If you have four or five, six setters more, then this is gonna be what can actually just totally let your setting performance absolutely take off.
11:56Like, you could have massive results by going from not doing this to doing this successfully. Okay?
12:02Now in the online service based industry, which is what most of my viewers are and most of my clients are, 99.99 of companies and successful appointment teams, successful outbound teams, they're running MDR models, not SDR.
12:19Okay? I probably have a thousand active, 900 active clients right now. I have a lot of people who are over $10,000,000 a year.
12:27I can maybe think of I mean, I've had three, four thousand clients over the past several years. I can maybe think of, like, one or two that were above 10,000,000 a year purely through outbound, okay, in our industry.
12:39So I'm not saying in other industries, doesn't work really great. I'm just saying in our industries, 99.99% is MDR models.
12:45Okay? So a couple pros and cons here. Well, for MDRs, the pros is it's best for SMBs and b to c by far.
12:53It's far easier to make work. Like, it's way easier to make this work. It also enables way, way more scale with your marketing.
13:00Right? So you might be running basic inbound marketing to where people are directly booking in calls. But if you add in setters to that process, you're gonna get more revenue out of the same amount of ad spend.
13:09Okay? Now the con is, is that long term, it can be limited by marketing scale and capacity. So a lot of people tend to top out.
13:16It's somewhere between 15,000,000 and 40,000,000 a year. Like it's kind of hits that curve there. And that could be dependent on TAM.
13:23It could depend on a lot of things. They're LTV to CAC, they're basic economics, But obviously, ads go up at scale.
13:28So as you go up, you have a decreased marginal benefit relative to your marginal return or original relative to your marginal cost. Okay? So you tend to top out, which is why a lot of SaaS companies, they start with paid, and then as they get more resources, they switch to more going up market, uh, like in a mid market enterprise outbound type initiative.
13:47Okay? So the verdict.
13:50Right? If you already can't tell. What should you use if you're watching this video?
13:53You're somebody from my audience. You're one of my clients, etcetera. Should you use the SDR model or the MDR model?
13:58Okay? Unless you truly target only 50 to $100,000,000,000 plus companies, and you have an extremely small TAM, unless it's one of those two things, use the MDR model.
14:09It's what 99.9% of our industry uses to get past 10,000,000 a year. It's so much easier.
14:14It doesn't require high base salaries, and it's way faster to scale to eight multiple eight figures. Okay? And frankly, even if you want to or you do target 50 to $100,000,000 plus companies, what I do to encourage you what I encourage you to do is go down market a little bit.
14:30Okay? Unless you have substantial traction connections up market, but for most people who start up market, it's like, dude, you're up market and you're doing like 50 k a month. Like, go down, run ads to SMBs in your industry.
14:42Like, let's say you're doing solar companies. Instead of doing the huge ones, come down, work with the smaller companies, adjust your product a little bit. And what's gonna happen is, is you're gonna run ads, and 80 to 90% of the clients you sell will be the SMBs.
14:54You know, they're gonna be doing $500 a year to about 15,000,000 a year. But a small percentage, like 10% of those, will be the 15,000,000 to a 100,000,000 plus companies, like solar companies in this example. And that's a small percentage, but what's crazy is is through ads, you end up getting the same amount of enterprise clients that you would have gotten through a full enterprise ABM function anyways.
15:13Because, like, you might only close three enterprise clients a month, and you might close 50 small businesses a month. But, like, with a full enterprise AVM fraction, you might only close, like, two to six of those a month, right, which is still a lot. And so instead of paying major salaries to do it, you also get paid to do it.
15:29So I'll give you an example. For us, we've mainly focused on the high ticket industry, the online service based based industry, etcetera.
15:37All of the quote unquote upmarket enterprises in our industry, we've worked with them all. We haven't done any outbound. Okay?
15:43So everybody from the Tony Robbins to the Deans to a bunch of a bunch of people. Right? I'm not going to name drop all of them right here.
15:49But we've worked with pretty much everybody who's at the top layer in the industry, all the category kings, the respective markets. We've almost worked with everybody. We've never had to do outbound.
15:58It's just been from a sheer volume of advertising and just a law of numbers of eventually getting those people in. Right?
16:03So we kinda got there anyways without having to do the outbound, and we got paid to do it along the way. K? So one more thing, and this is a big more mistake a big mistake before we move on, is that in the rare chance you have both MDR and SDR functions, do not combine the teams to do both.
16:21Right? Like, do not have somebody working cold LinkedIn and working your inbound leads. Okay?
16:26They should be exactly separate teams with separate management and separate operating systems and separate comps. If you do combine, what you're going to do is you're going have an MDR team. Okay?
16:36Because the MDR work is going be so much easier. They're going to get overpaid to do MDR work, and and then you're gonna be mad at them constantly for not doing any of the SDR LinkedIn work. But they're like, why would I do that?
16:45It's way harder, and I can just work over here and make more. You know? And it's way easier.
16:50So even if they can make a little bit more by doing their LinkedIn, they're just gonna do all MDR work. I've seen this happen a 100 times. It's just everybody agrees in sales training, etcetera.
16:59Just don't do it. Okay? So with that being said, this kinda sets the stage for the rest of the training because everything we're to cover from here on out is going to be MDR model best practices.
17:11Okay? So we're to get into the different MDR revenue models and the requirements to get them to work.
17:17Okay? So there's a very important concept for MDRs. To get them to perform, you have to provide them with something called curated opportunity flow.
17:27Okay? Curated opportunity flow means you have a system that generates new leads on a daily basis, generates them a consistent way, which means they have the same context of what they're coming in and the same mechanism that's generating them.
17:41And then there's a clear SOP and how to convert that opportunity from an opportunity to a set for the closer. Okay? So think about this like a conveyor belt.
17:51Right? You have new leads coming in from the same source under the same context, having the same process to execute them and turn them into sets, you're doing that every single day.
18:00So the system in which you generate curiosity flow, because there's different systems. There's low ticket.
18:05There's call funnels. There's app funnels. There's there's DM funnels, there's all this stuff.
18:09Right? There's tons of different ways you can do it. So the system in which you generate the curated opportunity flow dictates all of your SET or SOPs.
18:17Okay? And so we're gonna cover that in a little bit. Now, here's what is not a conveyor belt.
18:23Right? Here is what is not curated opportunity flow. What is not curated opportunity flow is putting your setter in a Facebook group with no training and telling them to go farm.
18:33Don't do it. It's not giving them access to your CRM with all leads and telling them to go farm. Okay?
18:39And that can work in some cases. We're gonna talk about pipeline setting later. But that pipeline setting can only work when you already have first an established MDR opportunity flow.
18:47Okay? So, again, we'll cover that later. Now, um, having them cold DM people on LinkedIn, email random Facebook groups, again, that's an SDR process, not an MDR process.
18:55So if you do any of this under the premise that you're basically hiring an MDR, your center's gonna quit because your opportunity sucks. And then you're gonna say there's no good talent out there.
19:04The truth is you haven't created an opportunity good enough with the right flows, opportunities, the right good lead gen system. You haven't created an opportunity good enough to attract good talent.
19:13In all recruiting, the best job opportunities consist of good lead systems, good training systems, good culture, good product, good on track earnings. And so when you have that, you're gonna get the best talent. Okay?
19:24So it's really as simple as that. It's like if you have a really great offer, you're gonna get the best clients. If have a really great offer for the recruiting marketplace in the form of your role and your company and your culture and all of that stuff, you get the best talent.
19:34Okay? Hopefully, that makes sense. You really want great people on your team.
19:37That's all you gotta know. So we're gonna cover the common MDR models that we're working right now. There's many, many, many that we could cover.
19:45But rather you're running organic or paid, which is most people watching this video, here's several of the common models that generate curated opportunity flow that you could run. Okay? So the first one is a call funnel.
19:57It actually doesn't say that here for some reason, but it's a call funnel. Okay? I told you.
20:02So a call funnel is basically where you run an ad to an opt in to a VSL to an application, then do a booking page, then do a thank you page, and then into a sales call. So it's like a direct booking funnel. Some people call this a VSL funnel.
20:13Some people call it a DTA or an app funnel. This VSL could also be like a webinar that's an automated webinar. In fact, it could really be like a live webinar.
20:21It'd be slightly different of a process for your setters, but you get the point. There's ad. There's an opt in.
20:27There's also some sort of value video where you educate and then tell them to book a call. They apply, and then they book the call, and then there's a thank you page, and they show up.
20:36Okay? So the setter outreach, how it would work here is there's different curated opportunity flows.
20:42K? So I listed some of these here. These are the primary ones.
20:45They're gonna be calling and texting new opt ins. They're gonna be calling and texting new applications who didn't book. Because some people will apply, but then they won't book.
20:53So they're gonna be calling and texting that. Then they're also gonna call and text partial applications. So if you run the right application software, what happens is is let's say they fill out name, email, phone number, but they don't finish the application, so it's a partial.
21:05They don't actually submit it to the very end. You'll still be able to capture that, and your setters can still hit them up. Right?
21:11You can also do email opens who didn't book. So let's say they opt in, they don't book, but then they get into your email sequence, and then they pop an email open and look at an email, you can trigger that right in to do an immediate call. It's very effective.
21:24And then the secondary opportunities are no shows, rebooks, and basically five plus day pipeline.
21:31That's called pipeline setting. So if you can see here, this is basically going through everything I just said. There's new opt ins, new apps, no bookings, partial apps, live transfers.
21:38This is the only one I didn't cover. So live transfers is only if you double book. So in some systems, which if you wanna know about double booking, we have a whole training on sales ops.
21:46That's where you'd learn about it. But, essentially, if if you're double booking appointments because your show rates are low and you're trying to maximize live calls per closer per day, if you double book appointments, if two people show up at one time, you need somebody to be able to take that.
22:00So a lot of times, that's the setter. We have a live transfer closer. Again, that's in the sales ops training.
22:05That's a little bit different. But sometimes a live transfer closer is even hooked up or or they're busy. And then essentially, you it's still gonna always overflow to the setters.
22:13Okay? So that can always happen. So that's another primary opportunity.
22:17The secondary opportunities are the rebookings, pipeline setting, email opens. Okay? So this is the same this flow and these curated opportunities are the same for the following funnels.
22:26Right? A webinar funnel that books a call, exact same process. Call funnel with no opt in, a lot of people call that DTA, direct application.
22:33So you remove the opt in. Some people do that because it actually makes their marketing work better, even sacrificing the email and that and the phone number to be able to call the people. But even if you remove the opt in, outside of, like, there's no opt ins for the setters to call, it's all the same process.
22:47Right? Maybe you have a call funnel, but instead of, hey, opt in for the video, it's opt in for this PDF.
22:55And then in headline, it's like, hey, your PDF is on the way, but then you have like a VSL, and it's just a basic, like, VSL call funnel. It's the same exact flow. It's just a different lead magnet.
23:04Okay? VSL funnel, like I said, just a different name for a call funnel. It's pretty much the same.
23:09Whether it's direct and it starts with the offer or it's indirect and it acts like a training and goes with the offer, it's all the same. Regardless if you're doing paid or organic, it's the same process for the setters. So moving on, talk about the next model, which is the low ticket funnel plus setter outbound.
23:24Okay? So this is where you'd have an ad. It goes to a low ticket offer sales page, goes to the checkout page, there's like 47 bumps that they can take.
23:32Then there's a OTO one, which is an upsell one. There's an upsell two, usually.
23:38And then you get a new buyer on the thank you page. And then what happens is is in this model, right, there's different low ticket models. But in this model, all the leads are really gonna be generated after the fact through SMS and email or in the actual course portal, and then also mainly through the setters.
23:54Okay? So the primary lead source for them is calling and texting new buyers sorted by AOV. Okay?
24:02Then the secondary lead sources are gonna be add to carts who didn't buy. Right?
24:07Generally, those are very low quality, by the way. We have never gotten much results out of that, but just wanted to throw them in there because maybe your offer's different. No show rebooks.
24:14Also, same thing with pipeline setting, is five plus day old leads. And then also the email opens that didn't book. Okay?
24:19So all of that is still gonna apply, and you might even still have some live transfers in this situation as well. Then we get to the different low ticket model, which is low ticket plus an implementation call, which is this really the gold standard for low ticket funnels right now, which is why I wanted to talk about it.
24:33So this is a little bit different. Most of this is the same. The big key difference is is after they check out with the bumps and all that stuff, the first one time upsell is a basic implementation call, where it's like, it's basically framed as an onboarding call, and it's framed as part of their purchase.
24:50So you don't want to sell them on doing this call and talk about all the benefits. You want to frame it as like, hey, you purchased this call. I'll claim the call you just purchased.
24:58Okay? You'll get way higher conversions that way. And so then after that, that's basically OTL one, and we don't have an option for them to skip it either.
25:05And then OT zero two and so on and so forth is really the same. Okay? And so what happens is is obviously the primary source for the setters is going to be they're going to be taking these implementation calls that are run by setters.
25:17So they're going be triaging these people to a closer call. But then the other primary source is that all the people who didn't book, which usually, like, you ever run a good process here, about 30 to 40% of people won't book. Okay?
25:29So what are they gonna be doing? They're gonna be calling and texting all those people to get them to book. And it's gonna be a little bit of a different script.
25:37We'll cover that later. And then the secondary sources are basically all the same. Add to carts they didn't buy, against low quality, no shows, pipeline, email opens it in book, so on and so forth.
25:45So that's all listed here. Then the next one that's very common is a DM setting funnel. This is a great funnel to get to, like, a 100 or 200 in a month.
25:52And then usually, you wanna shift it into one of the ones we already just talked about. So this is where you might do IG like, you have IG organic, which is your Reels, post stories, etcetera.
26:02And then you do your boosted posts, uh, or you might have some boosted posts, which is like your top organic content that you're amplifying. And then you have, like, actual traditional DM ads, which is probably the volume of your traffic.
26:13Right? Like, the click to DM ads. And then essentially, this all goes to your DMs.
26:18Right? And usually, they're commenting into a keyword. If it's an ad, it's pretty obvious that they're coming from the ad.
26:23You'll just be able to see it. But like, let's say it's a story. They might, um, reply with, you know, sales, if like I'm giving away a sales training or whatever.
26:30Now there's different DM flows and scripts depending on if it's what's called indirect versus direct. So what I mean by that is if I have a story, and I'm like, hey, I'm looking for five people who want to get x result in y days, that's a DM me get started if you're interested.
26:48That's a direct lead. Right? That's we're gonna use what's called the direct script because the lead is coming in intent based.
26:54Right? They already have intent on what we have to offer. So that's just one or two quick qualifying questions right to a triage.
27:01Whereas an indirect lead is if I if I do the same story and I'm like, hey, I put together this amazing training on setters, comment setter or reply setter to this story, and I'll send it to you. Right?
27:12That's an indirect script because we've to give them the training, and then we have to have a longer process to weave that and and basically sell that into triage.
27:22Right? And getting them to actually book a fifteen minute call with us. Right?
27:25So we're gonna have an open air qualifier, transition, book, etcetera. There's a whole other training in SDA about that. Right?
27:32So the primary curated opportunities here are gonna be the inbound DMs. There's, again, indirect if it's lead magnet, direct if it's more offer based. And then also, they might be reaching out to comments from, like, boosted posts and organic posts and all of that stuff.
27:44Right? So this is important to understand because even if you're not running DM ads, the process is very important to understand for your setters if you have, let's say, 200,000 followers on organic. Right?
27:53Because you also might reach out to new followers, maybe another primary lead source, which really what I talk about here.
27:59So the secondary curated opportunities are new follows. Usually, you can't rely solely on these unless you get a lot, but it's still worth doing. Surprisingly, I was very shocked when we started doing this, and it worked.
28:10But it does work just DMing new followers. And if you wanna know how to do that, we have training elsewhere in SDA. You also get phone numbers generated from, like, the link in bio, lead magnet, all of that stuff.
28:22So, like, I might make I might be running DM ads, and I might have in my bio DM me this keyword. I might also be doing some of that stuff with my story. But what also works is you might have just have, like, a VSL in your LinkedIn bio, and then people are gonna opt into that self book, and then you're also gonna get phone numbers from the opt in.
28:39So you're gonna wanna have a separate setter. Usually DM setters and phone setters are two different archetypes of people and two different comps.
28:46So you're gonna have a different team, hit those people up, call them, etcetera, and set. Right? The other thing that's a secondary lead source, especially if you have a big organic, is like polls, quizzes, question boxes, sliders, or whatever.
28:58Because all of those can be outbound DM opportunities. Hey, I saw you responded x to this quiz. And then you just kind of get into, like, some more of an indirect type of conversation.
29:06So we're gonna lightly touch on live event funnels. So this is like a live webinar, a live event, a challenge funnel. They're all very similar.
29:12They can both be free or paid. They could be organic or through paid ads. And here, the setters can DM people in the group if it's like a challenge or a live event.
29:21So like if you do a two step post, hey, you know, if you guys want this training I talked about on the challenge today, comment below, and there's all these comments. The setters can reach out and then use an indirect script, and they can do this before, during, or after. They can also reach out to people upon when they join, whether that's through a call or they're joining a group through DM or a Facebook DM or whatever.
29:38That could either be to make sure they show up. I've also seen people set an appointment right away and actually sell early before the challenge or whatever even starts, or to set an appointment for after the challenge so an appointment's already set after your challenge is done.
29:53So there's many, many different ways to do it. It's not something that most people are doing, so we're not going to talk a lot about it in this training. Okay?
30:01So now, with that being said, we're at a crossroads. So from here on out, we kind of have been filtering it down. We started with MDR versus SDR, and then we just did a lot more on MDR models so that you know what system you have to have to actually hire setters in the first place.
30:16Now what we're really going to focus on is most people, they're running something along the lines of via song call funnels, webinar call funnels, whether that's live or automated, direct application funnels, PDF lead magnet to a book call funnel, or a low ticket buyer funnel. Okay?
30:30So we're gonna cover simply all of those for the rest of this training. We're not gonna cover the live event stuff. And the reason why is is these funnels are the most common, and they're just very linear and simple to understand.
30:41So even if you're not running one of those funnels, learning these ones will give you the simplest, clearest idea of how a proper setting system should actually be run. And if you can understand that, you'll be able to apply it to any other model that you're doing.
30:54Okay? And again, these funnels are they're the same whether it's paid or organic. Okay?
30:58You're gonna get what I'm saying. So there's gonna be separate training in SDA on how to run implementation call.
31:04Actually, there's not. I just linked it right here. So if you wanna know in the low ticket funnel how to do the implementation calls, this video is your that's your video.
31:11Okay? So that's the training for that. If you wanna learn that system, we're gonna talk about the actual outbounding buyers in this training.
31:18DM setting, we're not gonna talk about in this training. That's gonna be a different system, and it's gonna be a different training. It's already there in the course.
31:25And then the live event challenge stuff, again, it's a different system. We're not gonna talk about that here.
31:30If you ever wanted to get my one on one help in terms of scaling your business, then listen up really fast. So we're taking out a few clients where I can personally one on one audit their business across marketing, sales, operations, fulfillment, finance to be able to tell you what your constraint actually is, and ultimately, what are the one to three things you need to do next to be able to scale working entirely one on one with me.
31:50So if that's interesting, there's a link in the description that'll say Cole one on one that you can go book. But, essentially, not only will you get my personal advice, but we'll also be opening up our entire playbooks of my $36,000,000 a year company across marketing, sales, operation, fulfillment, finance.
32:04So you can basically model the best practices of what we've done right into your business, and it'll include the opportunity to meet in person up at an event with me. So if that's interesting, click the link in the description and mount back to the video. So with that being said, how many leads should you give your setter per month depending on the funnel that you're using?
32:21So we covered all the different MDR models. So now the question is, depending on which MDR model you're using, because it's different, how many leads should you give each setter per month?
32:29What are the industry benchmarks? Okay. Because if you give them too few, you're leaving money on the table, and that's common for more people at scale.
32:36And if you're giving them too or sorry, if you're giving them too many, you're leaving money on the table. If you're giving them too few, then your entire system won't work, which is very common at the beginning.
32:45Right? So people at scale tend to give too many. People who are at the beginning tend to give too few.
32:50So for instance, I'll see people who they have four setters and they're complaining about none none of their setters performing, and they're only at a $150 a month.
32:57So immediately, I'll be like, okay. Well, how many leads per setter per month are you giving your setters? And it's very, very few.
33:02It's like 200 leads per month per setter on a funnel that normally should be 800 leads per month per setter. So it's like they have enough leads for one setter, yet they have four, and then they're wondering why everybody's churning, nobody's making money, their setters aren't working. So what I wanna do is first give you the formula and teach you how to fish.
33:19So I'm gonna give you the benchmarks in a second, because everybody wants to know what's the number. Right? And so I can give you industry benchmarks, but what's more important is me teaching you how to actually think about this question.
33:29And the reason why is, is every market is different. Every industry is different. Different funnels have different lead quality, and that all means different leads per set of per month KPIs for different businesses.
33:39So I can give you benchmarks. You still need to think for yourself. And just as an aside, I just not too long ago, this was in like 2025, I was using my own industry benchmarks for my b to b offer.
33:49And what I realized was, is I started to use the formula that I'm about to teach you to actually test and see if, uh, we were actually giving our setters too many leads, because I had a little hunch. And turns out, we massively were.
34:02We were almost able to double the setting team without any decrease in performance of any individual setter because just for our offer, our leads had so much high intent. Right? And so every offer is different.
34:12So here's the formula. The first thing you wanna do is establish your on track earnings for setters.
34:18Okay? So we're actually gonna cover comp at the very, very end, but you're gonna wanna figure out what the comp is for your setters. I recommend overpaying, which I'm gonna talk about why I recommend that in a bit, but I just recommend in almost any position that you ever have in your business, you look at the comp range, and if this is the range, you wanna be up here.
34:37Right? Or even a little bit above the range. And the reason that's important is because, you know, even just paying a little bit more, sometimes 2 or $3 more can get you twice as good of people just paying at the top of the range.
34:50So in this example, let's say you go through the exercise. It's gonna be at the very end of this video about comp, and you set a 10 k a month target.
34:58So, like, let's say the range, the on track earning range, is these setters are gonna make with commissions or their base or however you're gonna pay them, 7 to $12 a month. Okay?
35:06So it's about a 10 k a month target. Okay? So then start with the benchmarks that I have, which we're going to cover shortly, and then add setters slowly to decrease the leads per setter per month.
35:19Alright? So this is going to kind of happen in two scenarios. So let's say you're a newer business, and you have 800 opt ins per month, and you're running a VSL funnel.
35:26So then you hire right one setter exactly, which is like right at the benchmark we're going to cover in a second. Then you increase to 1,200 opt ins per month because you raise the ad spend, and you hire a second setter.
35:39So now each setter is at 600 opt ins per month, per setter. And what you're gonna wanna do is gauge performance, which we're gonna cover in step four. But let's say you have an established business.
35:48So let's say you already have 4,800 leads per month, and you have six setters. So that's 800 leads per setter per month, which is right at benchmark. Here, you just change nothing, and you add one setter.
35:57Right? And now each is at $6.85, you're to reevaluate performance.
36:00The reason here I recommend, like, increasing the spend a little bit if you're a newer business is because if you go from 800 all the way down to 400, it's gonna throw your first setter who's already working in a huge rut. So you do gotta increase the ad spend a little bit because at a lower setter count and a lower lead count, the drop is pretty insane.
36:18Now, obviously, if you have one setter and you're way above benchmark and they got 2,000 leads, you probably just add a setter and it's gonna be fine. So the result of doing this is you're gonna have three scenarios. Scenario one is all the existing setter individual production will stay the same.
36:33And so, essentially, nothing changed. Everybody's doing the same numbers, but now you have one or however many extra people who are also doing numbers.
36:42And so the team production in that case is up significantly. And all that meant was you just had way too many leads per setter, and this is a massive efficiency increase. So here, you would know, okay, I would test it again to see if that happens again.
36:55Okay? Now the next scenario is is that each individual contributor, their production goes down slightly, but the team production is up moderately.
37:05So here, this is what's key. Here, you're you're fine as long as the individual setters or the individual setter performers are still close to or at their target on track earning, which was a 10 k a month in this example.
37:18Remember. Okay? So scenario three is is that you you add a setter, you don't change the leads, and an individual production drops significantly, but the team production is maybe only up slightly or maybe not at all.
37:31Okay? So this is an issue because your existing top performers, what's gonna happen is they're gonna make less. They're gonna drop below that target on track earning, which was 10 k a month in our example.
37:42So if it dropped 25%, now they're making seven. And then that means now, you don't have enough leads and you're overstaffed.
37:49Right? Which is gonna increase your churn. This will make sense just to give you a short kind of summary of all of this.
37:53So step one, you determine the on track earnings range and the target on track earnings. Then you start at the benchmark, which I'm gonna cover in a second. Then you increase the amount of setters that you have or or it's the same thing, decrease a leads per setter per month count continuously.
38:06And then what you're gonna do as you do that is measure the overall team production simply by just by looking at lead to set percentage, cost per set or booking, which is your ad spend divided by your sets. And if they improve, your production is up.
38:18Right? But what you wanna do is you wanna stop when the on track earnings at the top 25% of your team is below that target on track earning.
38:26Right? That's kinda how you find that intersection of when you know you have the right KPI.
38:31Right? Because really at the end of the day, if you're adding good setters and always decreasing leads, you should always get incremental increases in performance. The question becomes is when is it not worth it to add that next additional setter for the amount of leads that you have?
38:45And the way you determine that is when the decrease in pay the setters are experiencing starts to risk churn, and then you're losing your good people and your ability to recruit good people because you can't pay them enough. Hopefully that makes sense.
38:58You want to find that intersection there. Alright? But a lot of times, again, with scale companies, you can start to add, like, add it and keep decreasing the account, and you're gonna have a huge production, and they're not gonna make that much less.
39:10Right? With beginning companies, a lot of times they just hire too many, and they don't spend enough, and then they actually are overstaffed.
39:18Okay? So now what are the common benchmarks? So this is highly dependent on lead source, which is why I wanted to teach you how to think about it in the first place.
39:25So I'm gonna give you a few options. Right? And we only go off of the primary metric.
39:30So like in a VSL call funnel, that's opt ins. For a DTA funnel, that's apps. So we're not really counting no shows, pipeline, all of those other opportunities.
39:39And so what I would do is consider these requirements to when you're ready to hire another setter, unless you've already determined your own metric. Or if you've never hired a setter before, this is the requirement of hiring your first setter, Okay, until you know your own metrics.
39:54So if you're running a VSL webinar call funnel with an opt in, it's about 800 to 900 opt ins per setter per month. And then what you're looking for out of that is about 80 to a 110 sets per month per setter. If you're running a PDF lead magnet to a call funnel, it's about 1,200 to 1,500 leads per this is sets, but it should say leads per setter per month.
40:18And out of that, they should get 80 to a 110 sets per setter per month. The reason this is different, even though the funnel is very similar, is PDFs and lead magnets tend to get lower quality leads. It just always does, especially with Facebook ads.
40:30Now, if you're doing a VSL webinar call funnel without the opt in, so this is also called DTA funnel, direct to app, then it's about 400 to 500 apps.
40:41App no bookings is what we call them. So apps that didn't book per setter per month, which is a lot. I mean, you're gonna have maybe three or four closures in one setter.
40:49Okay? And then out of that, you should get 80 to a 110 sets per setter per month. If you have a buyer funnel without the implementation call.
40:57Okay? So one where it's just pure outbound of your buyer funnel, it's about 400 to 500 buyers per setter per month. Again, they should get 80 to a 110 sets per setter per month.
41:07And this KPA, again, like I said, it drastically changes if you do an implementation call. Right? And so it's different because when you do an implementation call, the buyers who don't book the implementation call to begin with are generally way worse quality.
41:21So you may have to raise this up to, like, 800 if you're calling the buyers who didn't book the implementation call. K? So as you can see with all these metrics, you end up at about 80 to a 110 sets per month.
41:32Okay? I've had setters as high as a 130 to a 140 plus sets per month, just to be clear, but 80 to a 110 is a good range. And the way to think about it is really 80 to a 110 means your setter is getting enough answers and enough qualified combos per day to where essentially, like, that maxes out their day if they're having enough quality combos.
41:53So, you know, at the end of the day, one thing that's constant, no matter what funnel that you run, essentially is that the setter only has eight or nine hours or however many hours in a day. Right? And so generally, find once they get to 90, a hundred, one ten, one twenty sets per setter per month, that's pretty much the max.
42:08Regardless of lead flow, that's gonna be the max that they're gonna be able to do in a normal work week. I'm sure you have the beast who works ten or twelve hours and works weekends and all this shit, but that's kind of the exception to the rule. Most times, that's gonna be about the max.
42:21Now what do you do if you don't have enough leads for one setter, but you're like, man, I still got some needs leads that need hit.
42:30Right? So this is only gonna happen, by the way, when you're hiring your first setter ever. Right?
42:34So like the scenario here is, you might have 400 opt ins per setter per month. Right? So you only have 400 opt ins.
42:41You really should have 800, but you only have 400. But there's also, let's say, because you're doing app grading, there's two great apps that need requalified, and there's also no shows to reach out to.
42:52There's apps, no bookings that are not getting called, but you don't have enough of those to hit on track earnings. Okay?
42:59In this case, I'd still hire a setter, but what you're gonna have to do is you're gonna have to put them on a guaranteed draw until lead flow increases. So for example, you're gonna put them on the regular comp.
43:08Like, let's say your regular comp, which we're to cover that later, is like four to 5% per set close. You're still gonna have them on regular comp, but you're gonna put them on a draw that basically means they're guaranteed to make 7 k. That'd a 7 k a month draw.
43:19So what you do is you end up paying them the difference between their regular comp and the 7 k. So let's say the comp structure in this example is $2,500 a month plus 3%, uh, 3% per closed set.
43:30Right? And let's say based on the leads that they closed that month, they would have made just raw off that compensation 5 k. Okay?
43:37If they're on a 7 k a month guaranteed draw, that means you're gonna pay them an extra $2 to get the $7. But in the same example, if on the base comp structure, they would have hit 10 k, then you don't pay them anything extra.
43:48Right? That's what a draw is. It's just a guaranteed floor.
43:51So in examples where, like, maybe you have double bookings and nobody to take them, you have you have leads to call, you just don't have enough really for one setter. I'd still hire the setter. I'd put them on the right comp structure that'll work at scale, and I tell them, hey.
44:04We're scaling them. We're scaling really fast. But until we kinda get to this level so you have enough leads, you're gonna have a draw.
44:10They'll be cool with it. Okay? Now this is a big question and a huge mistake that a lot of people make, which is should setters take direct bookings?
44:19Okay? So it's multifaceted. The answer is kind of yes and no, but tons of people make mistakes with this.
44:25And what's key is understanding how sales ops should work, and then that kind of factors into all of this equation. So again, have an entire training, I already mentioned it on sales ops.
44:35It's in the portal. But as a quick primer, the ideal sales ops for call funnels is prospects apply or they book a call.
44:42The sales coordinator and this is gonna be AI if you're using SalesKick. If you're not using SalesKick, it's gonna be a human.
44:48The sales coordinator is gonna grade every single application based on the answers. Okay? Again, separate training on this.
44:54And then, essentially, they're grading one through four. Now, the way we do it is ones get canceled. That's like spam.
45:00Twos move to a setter to get requalified. Three is go to a closer. Fours go to a closer.
45:05Fours are just like better leads. Right? So if you ever do best leads to best closer, you can kind of delineate that by the four grade.
45:11K? So the question is here, and why I'm bringing this up, is what's a two? What's a two grade?
45:16This usually means, like, you're not sure if you can help them, which is very, very common in b two b. So, like, for us, you know, we'll have somebody put solar on the app.
45:24It's like, what business do you have? Solar. But then the revenue is good.
45:28And now in a lot of cases, depending on the model, we can help solar companies, but some other companies we can't help that are solar. So instead of just putting them right on the closer's calendar, what we'll do is we'll put them on the setter's calendar.
45:40Now if the calendar's light that day for any reason, we'll just move them right back to the closer. But usually, the setter's gonna take it because we need to requalify and get more information just to even determine if they are qualified in the first place.
45:51Right? So that's probably the most common example of why we have two grades. But you also might maybe your b to c or what have you, you also just might know based on hard data that, hey.
46:01You know, people who answer this and that on the app or have this app grade, they're unlikely to close or unlikely to show up, but all that needs to be based on data. Right? So for example, like, you could have tracked that a person who gives a one word response in a certain field or who has an unideal financial situation doesn't show up or barely ever closes, so you might two grade those and move them to the setters.
46:22Okay? Just let me be clear. You have to do this based off data.
46:27Do not do this based on gut feel, because your gut feel is usually wrong. Okay? Even mine.
46:31It's usually wrong. So if you want to know more about this, you can go through the sales ops training. But you'd send these to setters to qualify before setting on the closes calendar.
46:39Now so the question originally was, should setters take direct bookings? Okay?
46:44I had to kinda teach you this to answer that question. So the the two great appointments are the only direct bookings your setter should take.
46:53Okay? So for the love of God, in 99% of scenarios there are some exceptions but in 99% of scenarios, the setter should not be triaging every single appointment before the closer takes it.
47:06Okay? Because I see people with call funnels, like they're running ads to a book a call funnel, and every single appointment is going to a setter. It's like, oh my God, do not do that.
47:16Okay? Here's why. So here's why you should not send all your direct bookings to the setters.
47:22It's because the math doesn't work. So I'm going to give you two examples. Example one is sending calls to the closer first.
47:28So let's say you have 100 bookings, 70 show, that's 70%, 25% close, that's 17.5, and you have 175 k cash collected because your price is 10 k.
47:37Now, let's say you send all the calls to the setters first. You have the same 100 bookings, 70 show.
47:43Now 55 of those book with the closer. So you have a 78 booking rate. K?
47:48And by the way, that's generous. I usually don't see it that high, but that's generous. Then you have a 38.5.
47:55I had to do point fives here to keep the math right. But 38.5 actually show to that closer call, the real closer call.
48:02So that's a 70% show rate from the setter bookings. Then 15.4% close.
48:09And I even gave them in this example, you got to look at the screen, I gave them a 40% close rate, the closers. Right? Because since they're talking to the setter first, I'm gonna allow them to close 15% higher because they're a little bit warmer.
48:21They've had another had another call, which I'll just say right now, that's crazy generous. It usually doesn't happen like that. But whatever.
48:29Let's say they close 40 now because the setters are triaging them. K?
48:32Compared to 25, but only 15 close. You're only making a 154,000 cash collected at the same 10 k price.
48:41So you made less money. And by the way, you have to manage a shitload of setters because they're gonna have to triage all these appointments, and you're gonna have to pay the setters, like, 3% or whatever on those appointments at close.
48:54So you're not just making less raw gross. You're making less altogether. And frankly, your closures calendar is not gonna even be like, in this example, your closures calendar is full.
49:05In this example, your closures calendar is not full. So your closure calendar is you know, they're gonna be an ad. They're gonna want you to fill their calendar.
49:12That's gonna cost you to spend even more on ads. And you're also gonna get hit you're gonna get higher tiers or colder traffic faster because you have to spend more on ads to essentially fill one closers calendar and to make less money at the end of the day.
49:28Okay? So it's very stupid.
49:31Okay? Do not do this. A lot of people but my market's different, because our people really need to feel heard and, you know, not get pissed right away and be slow.
49:41No, it's not. Okay? No, it's not.
49:44It's not. Alright? So just to just to actually show you when it can be worth it, for the setter first model to even break even, to make the same is just going direct to closer at 25% closing ratio, the closer would need to close 45.4%.
50:02That's just to break even. Okay? To actually make it worth it, they probably have to close 55%.
50:06You see how this is just like crazy. Alright? I've had this argument with sales managers many times throughout my years.
50:11It does not work. But your salespeople, your sales managers, they're gonna want you to do it because they don't care you spend on ads. They just want the easiest job possible and to make the most money.
50:20Well, yeah, like, you know, what they want is the people to show up with an Amex. Hey, I'm ready to buy. Like, you've to kind of put your closers in their place sometimes.
50:29So what you wanna think about is your setters are really there to drive new appointments. Okay? Net new appointments.
50:38They're not there to qualify existing appointments. And the other issue is too, this is a huge issue, is if your team gets used to this, then what's gonna happen is when you finally realize what I'm telling you, when you change it, they're all gonna go into a huge rut.
50:53Okay? They're gonna complain. They're gonna go into a huge rut.
50:56They're not gonna perform. They're gonna quit. They're gonna be like, oh, the leads.
50:59Oh my god. I can't believe that, you know, somebody's not pre selling all of my leads. Give me a break.
51:05So what I really recommend is that you not do this model from the very beginning. Okay?
51:10But if you are stuck with it, just be careful of changing it. So the way I recommend changing it is you test the whole new direct to closer model yourself, and you validate the whole new sales process from the very beginning, because these leads will be colder.
51:27So you do need to probably sell them a little bit differently, which is just normal. Like, now you got to do a normal sales process, God forbid. So you got to do a normal sales process now, but having that proof that, hey, guys, it works will help your sales team believe that it can work, not get too in their head, because it's all mental for them.
51:42Okay? And so what you wanna do is you wanna test it out on yourself. Sometimes with your best closer or your sales manager, they can test it out.
51:49And then when you roll it out to everybody else, you wanna map out how they can actually make way more money doing this because they're gonna have way more appointments, and they're gonna make way more offers. And And then you want to set the expectation that, hey, guys, you're not going to have as high as closing rate, but you're going to have way more appointments, you're ultimately going to make way more money.
52:04Okay? Now, there's a few exceptions to when it's okay to do setter first.
52:09The first one is, is if you're the owner slash founder and you're just trying to conserve time, obviously, that's fine. Just make sure you shift to the direct to closer model before you hire your first closer.
52:19Okay? So do not do this in the very beginning or sorry. It's fine to do this in the very beginning because, like, if you're the owner, you're doing a bunch of stuff.
52:27Like, it is worth to pay more per appointment, technically, just to have a premium on your time and not burn out talking to people who you shouldn't be talking to. I get that. But, again, just shift the model before you scale.
52:39And by the way, I'm not even right like, when I took calls but when I started this company, I didn't do the setter first thing. But I'm just saying some people, it does make sense. And if you are doing it, I don't hate that.
52:48That's fine. Just change it before you scale and hire a closer. There's another thing is, and this is the other exception where I'm okay with.
52:56Right, is if your prospects constantly show up to an appointment in non buying situations, it could be okay to send them to a setter first.
53:04So what I mean by that is I have clients who serve people in construction. Right?
53:11Construction business owners, contractors. They're on the site. They're in the truck.
53:15They're never on Zoom. They're never on a laptop. They're not in a buying situation.
53:21And so here, it does make sense sometimes just send them to the setter first. Right? But it also might even make sense to test something like a lead formed where everything is just outbound to the setter and just it's all outbound based.
53:31It could even make sense because you can get cheaper leads that way. You're not paying for the appointment. That model could even be superior here.
53:37But in this case, what you really wanna do is you do need somebody to have some sort of preliminary conversation to make sure that then when they take the meeting with you, they're actually sitting at a computer or somewhere where they can, like, see one Zoom, see what you're presenting, and actually be in a buying situation.
53:54Right? Like, being on a construction site when you're the business owner and you're dealing with especially, like, guys doing 1 to 5,000,000 a year, they're dealing with tons of fires. They're interrupt and take a call in the middle of it.
54:03Like, oh my god, I'm looking at this. I'm looking at this. I'm walking around.
54:06They're just not going to buy. Right? So you do need to reset them in a buying situation.
54:10It's just a nature of that market. The only other exception I would say that I could find is if what you saw has very strict qualifications, and most people don't qualify no matter what you do.
54:21Right? That's not really a reason, but because you should be able to filter those people out in the application.
54:28But I'm putting it here because, you know, it could be an exception, I suppose. Now the next thing we're gonna talk about is the triage capacity problem.
54:36Okay? So let's say you're a b two b offer like me, and 40 to 50% of your total bookings are MQLs, which means 50 to 60% are ones and twos.
54:46Right? So in this example, this is how my business works, by the way. 25% of all my applications coming in are two grade applications, and so they go to the setters.
54:55Right? So at my scale, that's a lot of bookings that land on the setter's calendar. So then if you're not careful, setters who are supposed to be driving net new business, right, net new appointments and working the opt ins and the leads and hitting speed to lead and doing all this great stuff, the people who are doing that, now what they're doing, if you look at their calendar, they're just talking to triages all day every day, and they're getting a lot of sets through that actually.
55:18So they don't even really have to hit the new leads. And so then what happens is your leads go uncontacted and unworked, and you make way less money. K?
55:26This is very, very common. And the thing is, it's happened to me. It just sneaks up on you.
55:30Like, it's not an issue for a while, and then as you scale and you scale and you scale like, I remember one time years ago, I looked at the setters calendars, and I was like, how are they even making any dials? Like, they're literally full all day with two great applications. And the truth is they're not.
55:43So what to do is if you're only at one to two setters on your team, I just wouldn't worry about this. It's probably not that much of an issue.
55:51But as you have a bigger team and you have three, four, five setters plus, I would have setters that are designated to only take triages. Okay?
55:59And if the show rate on these is low, what you can do is you can double or triple book them. Or, like, if they have a no show, what they can do is they can hit, like, a lead list where they have just access to everybody else's leads and they just pound them out. Uh, and they can hit those whenever they don't have a show.
56:13Right? But if they're taking appointments all day, they're at a serious disadvantage of working leads compared to the setters who are gonna be on the other team who are only gonna be dedicated to those leads. Right?
56:22Which brings me to the other team. The other team doesn't have any triages at all, and what they're gonna be doing is essentially working new pipeline. Right?
56:29And hitting speed to lead, and just like absolutely torching all those leads that are to come in. Right?
56:35So you're gonna have two teams, one for triages, one for just working and outbounding new leads only. And then if this team has free time and no shows, they can hit new pipeline, old pipeline, etcetera, which all of that will make sense as we go on. If you're a business owner who has appointment setters or an outbound sales team, you're gonna wanna hear what I have to say for a second.
56:53So a multiple 8 figure business owner texted me the other day, and when he started using dollar.ao for the first time, his pickup rates went from 9% to 20%. So imagine doubling your pickup rates and ultimately the throughput of what your outbound salespeople and centers are gonna get.
57:08How does that impact your business? The answer is a lot. So if you wanna check out Dialogue for a phone sales outbound system, just click the link in the description or just go to Dialogue.
57:18Now back to the podcast. So now we're gonna talk about KPIs. So set our KPIs starting with the call funnel.
57:24Alright? So, uh, we're gonna talk about setter activity and speed to lead. Those are very important KPIs, but that's gonna be in a different section.
57:32So you can go through these in the document, or if you're watching on the video, can just, like, look at these. But basically, these are all essentially the major KPIs that I look for in the call funnel.
57:44So all I will say is I'm gonna highlight a couple of things. So with dial to combo, like how many dials we make per combo, I usually see 10 to 15%.
57:53With dollar.io, we've had pickups as high as 15 to 20%. With combo to set, it's usually 55 to 70, but with b two b, you might see lower.
58:01Lead to set, it can while it can really vary wildly because you could have different lead qualities.
58:09You could also have if you have a lot of triages from two great apps, it's gonna make your lead to set look a lot higher. If you have live transfers from double bookings, it's gonna make your lead to set look a lot higher.
58:19So, generally, 10 to 20%. I mean, mine's, like, 37%, but a lot of that's because I have tons of live transfers.
58:25I have inbound triages from the two great apps, and then I have my outbound team working all these leads, and I have a pipeline setting team. So it's like we are squeezing everything out of these leads that we possibly can. So that's just a little bit different.
58:37So these things are a little bit subjective here. If you're doing pure outbounding, usually eight to 10 lead eight to 10% lead to set is pretty standard.
58:47Like, if it's like PDF leads or just pure lead forms, that can actually be pretty standard as well. Again, depends on quality.
58:54And also, in my experience with pure outbound, people using dollar.ao, they tend to get some I mean, I've had a $40,000,000 company just recently use it. You would know who they are who went from 9 percent to 20% with this model, so it can make a big difference.
59:07Show rates of the sets. Right? So the actual set show rate of the set or sets they're setting for the closers is 70 to 80%, and we've got as high as 90 being b two b helps, but I definitely 70%.
59:20Any below 70%, red flag, get it up. Okay? Set to close rate.
59:24The way I would think about set the close rate is it should be 20 to 30% higher than your ads call close rate. Okay?
59:31So if ads call close rate is 25%, set close rate should be 30 to 33%. Okay?
59:38Your sets should be your best leads. If your sets are not your best leads and your sets are closing at lower than the ads call close rate, your setters aren't very good. Very simple.
59:48I just solved it for you. That's what's happening. They're not very good.
59:52If they are good, they're gonna close higher than the ads calls. Just use common sense. Like, if the person had two conversations and the first conversation was really, really good, That person is gonna be more likely to close.
1:00:01If the setter knows what they're doing and they're actually setting qualified people, that person's gonna be more likely to close. So if your setter team is operating how it should and your setters are actually good and your operating systems are good and your talent is good, they should close higher, and they should show higher.
1:00:14Okay? Now those are the major KPIs. A couple adjustments here.
1:00:19If you're running a buyer funnel with no implementation call, the lead to set should be 20% plus, maybe even higher. Right? Because you'll see in the scripting, but we're using a customer service frame opposed to, like, more of an outbound frame.
1:00:30If it's PDF leads, you might see six to 8% because PDF leads are worse. But the most important metrics you really wanna look at, leads per set or per month, which we covered, sets per setter per month, that 80 to one ten number, which we covered, speed to lead, which we're about to cover, and setter activity, which we're about to cover.
1:00:46So if you simply just focus and make it really simple, if you simply just focus on getting the setter to 80 to a 110 sets per month, and then using them as baseline for all the mid funnel metrics and then following the formula about having, you know, how many leads you give your setter per month. If you just focus on those two things, the rest will naturally fall in place because people get really hung up on these numbers.
1:01:06But the issue is it just varies so much depending on the funnel, depending on the industry, depending on the messaging, depending on the lead quality, depending on all sorts of stuff. Right? So that is what I would say there.
1:01:18And then the other thing is too is if you don't know if, like, a metric, like, combo to set is good or not, all you gotta do is review a full day's calls, and you'll know. Like, it'll be obvious if your actual setter conversations are good or not.
1:01:31Okay? So let's move on to speed to lead, which is by far the number one most important KPI you can measure for all your setters. Alright?
1:01:39So and this is also the biggest leading indicator of pickup rates and lead to set. So I think, you know, I don't know if I have the study in here, but there's studies, for instance, that, you know, if you call the lead immediately versus five minutes, they're like 10 times more likely to get a set.
1:01:55If it's five minutes versus sixty minutes, they're another 10 times more likely to get a set. Regardless, it's basically an exponential curve to where you're the the if, like, if you think about a graph, and this is, like, how old the lead is, it's like an exponential curve to where the quicker you call them, you're just exponentially more and more and more likely to have a result and get a set and get an answer or what have you than if you don't.
1:02:18Okay? So a good KPI for this is for texting, it really should be automated, which we're gonna cover later.
1:02:23But that should be all under five minutes for all leads, 247365. And then for calling, this should be under five minutes for all leads during the setter's business hours.
1:02:34Right? Because if a lead opts in at 2AM and the setter's sleeping, you know, you can't really be like, dude, you should have woken up out of your bed and called that lead. So under five minutes for under business hours.
1:02:43And, okay. How do you track speed to lead?
1:02:48Number one. But, how do you track it only specific during business hours?
1:02:53If if you use dialer.ao, you can do it. There's another software called dialer OS that sits over top of other dialers.
1:02:59That will allow you to do it as well. Or we've even created our custom, like, clock code software thing that does it. So anyhow.
1:03:06Now we're gonna talk about setter activity and dials. This keeps saying dialers.
1:03:10It should say dials per day per setter. So the big issue here is, and this is a big mistake nowadays, is the old way of gauging setter activity was to monitor minimum dials made per day per setter.
1:03:26Okay? So this isn't bad, but it has limitations. And the limitations are is that you can't a setter can't dial when they're talking to a live prospect, which when they're talking to a live prospect is the most profitable thing that they've been doing in spending their time.
1:03:40And so if you have a system in which, you know, gives live transfers to the setters, it's giving them these two great applications. Maybe your leads are really good and they're super high pickup rates, or maybe they're really responsive, your leads are to text, and they're booking a lot of triages via the text sequence. Gonna happen is it's gonna look like your setter's not doing enough dials even though they're productive.
1:04:00So, like, I've had times as we were figuring this out in the early days where we'd have a setter make 20 dials in a day, but they'd have seven sets. Right? And that's due to super high answer rate, texting, triaging, etcetera.
1:04:12So the dials per day per setter, like a 100 dials per day per setter, I mean, it's generally as a ballpark, like a pretty good metric usually to look at. But the better thing to look at is setter activity.
1:04:24And so again, you either have to use dialer OS, which is a bold on the most dialers, or dial dot a o, either of them will do this. But what they basically do is they monitor, and this is like if you have a remote team. If you have an in person team, you just know if they're working and doing their job.
1:04:38Right? But the issue with virtual setters is you kind of don't know if they're doing just enough to hit KPIs and taking two or three hours off, or if they're working the full nine hours of the day that you're expecting them to until now. Because if you use either of those softwares I just mentioned, basically what they do is they combine talk time and dialing time.
1:04:56So that way, even if your setter is virtual, you can literally see how many hours they work each day. Okay. And so center activity should be about seven hours a day, which accounts for like, they're gonna have to do a sales meeting and a one on one sometimes they got to take a couple of breaks.
1:05:11That's fine. And they got to do lunch. Right?
1:05:13So like in an eight and a half hour, nine hour day, eight hour day, seven hours of activity, six and a half hours of activity is what you're looking for. And activity is defined as like, they're either dialing or they're actually talking to somebody.
1:05:26And those softwares can actually track that. Okay? Now, again, if you're hiring your first one or two setters, you don't need to freak out about this and be like, oh my gosh.
1:05:34Like, you can just measure it on like how many sets per or how many sets per day or how many sets per month is this person actually getting. But as your team gets bigger, this is absolutely game changing.
1:05:46You know? Like, I've had people figure this out, and they have a 20 lift once they figure it out on all their setters because they hold them accountable to how much they work and how much they dial. And then a 20% lift across eight setters is like saving $203,100,000 dollars a month in ad spend.
1:06:01It's like freaking So now we're to get into the complex stuff. Right? And this is probably the most advanced part of the entire training, which is your setter workflow and dialing logic.
1:06:11Okay? So this is the most important part of the video, and this is like how to run a setter team at the top 111% level.
1:06:17Like, I've been setting a lot of foundations up until now. Now we get to the fun stuff.
1:06:21So here's like the basic flow for a setter. Is the lead is created by marketing. It zaps into the CRM.
1:06:28It's tagged properly. So some leads, for instance, like if they book, they're not gonna get tagged, so they're not gonna go to the setters. But others, if they don't book, they're gonna go to the setters.
1:06:36That depends on your tagging system. And so then, they're delegated to setters in a round robin fashion. Alright?
1:06:42Now a bonus, and you'd have to work with Edward on this again, you can book with him. I'll put a link in the description, Is there's a bonus if the lead moves through essentially, like, if a lead's delegated to a setter during business hours and it doesn't get called within five minutes, it'll dish the setter to somebody else.
1:06:59Right? So it can keep reassigning the leads.
1:07:02Okay? So dialer does that instantly, but you can also build that into your HubSpot and do it that way with your sequencing, etcetera.
1:07:10So that's kind of the basic flow. Now a lot of people ask, well, like, what's the dialing cadence?
1:07:16Like, how many times should my setters call each lead, and in what order? What's the cadence?
1:07:22All that stuff. That's this is where this gets a little complicated. So we covered this earlier, but there's four determining factors.
1:07:28There's frequency, which is how many times a lead is hit. There's recency, which is how new the how new the lead is.
1:07:34So like for instance, I'd rather call a new lead three times today than dial three old leads or sorry, dial three five old leads today.
1:07:44Does that make sense? I kind of worded that word worded that a little weird. I'd rather call one new lead three times today than three different leads one time today if all those leads are five days old.
1:07:55Right? So the more new the lead is, obviously, more valuable it is. Right?
1:07:59The other thing is we look at value, which is any sort of data that makes us lead more valuable than others. So like for instance, an application that didn't book is more valuable than an opt in.
1:08:11A partial application that obviously didn't book because it didn't even finish the application is more valuable than an opt in. And then an opt in is like the third most valuable, and then, you know, probably so on and so forth from there. Like maybe an email open or whatever.
1:08:22Like you can tier all these leads. We'll look at that in a second. If you're doing a buyer funnel, a $200 AOV lead is more valuable than a $17 AOV lead.
1:08:32An 800 credit score lead is more valuable than a 500 credit score lead. Right? So how do you actually create an algorithm that kind of like factors in recency, frequency, and value, and all that stuff?
1:08:42Right? The other thing is peak call time. So knowing the statistically out of, like and every market can be different depending on the market.
1:08:51But knowing the statistically highest answer rate time of the day of your market. Okay? So, like, I always wanna dial a new lead immediately because that means they're online.
1:09:00But if I have two other dials and I'm gonna spend that day on that lead, I would ideally wanna dial those at peak time. Right?
1:09:08Like, let's say peak time is two to 5PM. I might do immediately when they opt in at 11AM, then again at two, and again at five. Okay?
1:09:16So the big mistake is that most people only focus on frequency. Right?
1:09:22They're like, I want to get my cadence perfect. How many leads? How many times should my setters hit each lead in the next fifteen days or in the next seven days?
1:09:30And they like really force and constrain this frequency on their setters so that every lead gets worked the right amount of times. But what they're not doing is they're not considering there's a hierarchy of leads at any one time from most valuable to least valuable because there's new leads coming in.
1:09:47Those should get prioritized. There's people who are texting back to certain sequences or opening emails. Those should get prioritized.
1:09:52So a lot of people, they can strain their setters to hit all leads this amount of times, this amount of days, this amount of, you know, this amount of times on this days, they give all these people tons of HubSpot task. It'll kill performance. Okay?
1:10:03So to fix all this, what you need is essentially like a dialing logic or a dialing algorithm. Okay? And so it's an algorithm for calling the highest value lead segments in the most productive order at the proper time per day in a way that prioritizes maximum speed to lead to where you'll know this you you know, you'll know you're doing good speed to lead when the prospects are like, damn, that was fast, when they answer.
1:10:27Okay? So this will make more sense as we go on. This is why said it's a little bit more complicated, but it's very, very important.
1:10:32And so a good way to understand this is looking at highest to lowest value lead buckets. Okay? And so imagine you're running a call funnel with an opt in.
1:10:41Alright? You have different buckets of leads, and we're gonna prioritize them right now from highest to lowest. So your highest value lead actually is calling people who just texted you back.
1:10:51Right? It's actually not the new leads. You would think it's the new leads.
1:10:54It's actually calling leads that you texted who just texted you back. And so what you'd wanna do with those leads is you wanna as soon as they text you back, call immediately, and then you text back second, which could be also an AI or an automation or whatever, which we're gonna cover all that in a second.
1:11:08The next highest value lead would be the new apps, no booking, new partial apps. The new opt ins would be next, then the recent email opens that trigger, and then maybe people who responded to one text or more, but they're two or three days old.
1:11:24Right? So they haven't I don't even know what that says.
1:11:27Haven't gotten a old of. Doesn't even make any sense. And then after that, we'll be calling and texting today's no shows.
1:11:33After that, we'll be calling today's new leads two times more. Okay?
1:11:38Ideally during peak hours. Then after that would be calling two day old leads in respective text follow ups for those leads. And then after that would be calling three day old leads, and then maybe have four day old leads, five day old leads, and that's where you cut it off at five.
1:11:50Right? So you see how, like, with all of the things, and this is pretty easy to put together. Right?
1:11:55It's like, okay. With all of how my funnel can work and how my leads can kinda interact in my ecosystem, this is how I'd ideally, in a perfect world, I'd want an algorithm to where, like, these things are always getting prioritized.
1:12:07So if you think about it, the most productive way for your setter to essentially do their daily workflow is to essentially always start at the top and hit all these leads first, then move to lead these leads, hit all these leads, hit all leads, hit all these leads, all these leads, all these leads, and then just work all the way down the list.
1:12:27Right? And what's gonna happen is is there's new people throughout a business day, like there's somebody who texts you back. There's a new lead that opts in.
1:12:34So it's like they kinda work down this list, but as new stuff populates in these buckets, they have to go back up. Okay? So it's like they're working down, but then they're constantly going back up, working down, constantly going back up, working down.
1:12:46Right? And so that's what the ideal workflow is.
1:12:50You can see it can be kind of tricky to actually think about, which is why you have to have an algorithm to do it. Okay? So you can also, like, you can make this even more complex.
1:12:57Like, you'd have separate lists based on certain factors like revenue, industry, app score, financial data, etcetera, and prioritize those in the sub list. So it could also get more complicated if you have multiple funnels. So let's say you had a buyer funnel running as well.
1:13:11Right? Well, you're dialing logic, but you need to factor that in. And so this is far more effective.
1:13:15Right? Because, Okay, back to the buyer funnel. Like, imagine you had a buyer funnel.
1:13:18Well, maybe the buyer funnel leads are better, New leads are better than the opt in funnel new leads. So you kind of have to filter that into the dialing logic. But my point is, this is far more effective than berating your setters that they're not calling every single lead 13 times.
1:13:33Okay? Like, why would they care about calling a five day old lead if a new one just came in or a new one just texted them back? So setters, a lot of times, that are good.
1:13:43If you let them sort of naturally they gotta be good, by the way. But if you let them naturally just sort of work the system, they'll start to actually work this way. If you rigid if you if you create a rigid system they have to follow, it is gonna drop performance.
1:13:58Okay? Now we still wanna actually give them a system to work within, but using this in mind. But, you know, even if you didn't, they naturally start to work your leads this way because they're trying to make the most money.
1:14:07And so a good example, and a quick story, is when I sold full time, I was with a company who was really upset.
1:14:15I was the closer, but this company was really upset at the setters for not calling their leads a certain amount of times per day for fourteen days and all this stuff. So they created this very rigid system, and they assured that all their leads had to be perfectly worked and called a certain amount of time through the course of fifteen days.
1:14:33And we literally went from full calendars, setters performing at an extremely high level, to just tanking the performance in a week. It just blew out the setter performance.
1:14:42It was terrible. Okay? And that's because they were trying to constrain them, and they were prioritizing frequency over the proper logic.
1:14:51Alright? And so after a week, we just switched it back. That's really where I learned this lesson and figured all this stuff out.
1:14:55It was years ago. This would have been 2019. So how do you act okay.
1:15:00So what do you do now? Okay. I kinda get it.
1:15:01What the hell do I do? So I'm gonna talk about the old way we used to do this. Alright?
1:15:06And this was the manual jerry rigging way that, you know, me and Edward would have to set up, and it was just like a lot, a lot of work. Okay? And this still works, by the way.
1:15:14But it's just not as ideal as the new way, which I'm gonna cover a second. So here's what we used to do. So you would set up a CRM so all these lead segments are tagged accordingly.
1:15:24Right? So like all these buckets that I went through, you'd have to set up the CRM. So as those leads come in, all those buckets have different tags.
1:15:31And then for each different tag, you would create a different list in your CRM to segment each of those things. So you'd have different lists.
1:15:38Right? So you'd have a separate list for every single lead bucket. Then you would educate your setters, hey, guys, here's your highest value leads, here's your lowest value leads, and they work in this order.
1:15:47So you'd order them out like high priority to low priority in a spectrum. Okay? And then what they would do is is they would sit in the CRM with their dialer, and they would load up.
1:15:56They basically have to refresh their page, load up the highest value list, see if there's anything in it, hit those leads, and so refresh again, see if there's anything in it, then move to the next list. Refresh, see if there's anything in it, hit those leads, then go back to the first one, refresh, see if there's anything in those.
1:16:11Then, okay, go to number three, see what's in that, hit all that, then go check one and two again, then go to number four, and so on and so forth. So basically, that's how they would work. I kinda put a diagram.
1:16:22It's like they work all these ones down, but then they're constantly rope looping back to check, essentially, if there's any new ones.
1:16:31Okay? So the issue with this was is, like, a lot of times, especially with those new leads coming in, you gotta, like, refresh the list to actually see if it pops up. And as you can tell, you know, you're asking the setters to have, like, five different freaking lists open.
1:16:45It's just kinda bulky. Okay? So what we also used to do to assist this process is for, let's say, like, the top three or four priority channels, what we do is we'd set up a Slack channel for each individual setter.
1:16:59And then anytime a new lead came in from the top, like, two to four segments or what have you, it would pop in that channel, and they would have to have the notifications on the computer screen for that channel. And then what we do is we'd set it up to where they could just click the Slack notification, and then automatically would pop up in the dialer.
1:17:16Right? And then that way too, we'd also have a manager channel that would have all the priority leads for all the setters inside of one manager channel so the manager could QC speed the lead on all the hottest, like, you know, tier one, tier two, tier three, tier four bucket leads.
1:17:32Right? And so they could work these lists, but to assist them and keep them from having to constantly refresh and open this and refresh and this and that, we'd always have that Slack notification popping up essentially for every single new hot lead coming in.
1:17:48That way we could assure they just get hit pretty much freaking instantly. Okay? So, again, how do you set this up?
1:17:55Alright? If you have one to two setters and you do not wanna deal with all this complexity, frankly, I would just teach your setters how to think about doing this stuff, have them set up some basic segments and priority list, and just let them rip.
1:18:06Okay? It's just not worth going through all this complexity if you have one or two setters. What it is worth doing is just teaching them how to think about it.
1:18:14Because like I said earlier, they will naturally sort of optimize this way. They won't do it perfect because they're not a robot. They're not an algorithm.
1:18:20But they'll naturally kind of optimize this way if they know how to think about it. Now, if you have three plus setters and you want to take this shit to the next level, again, I'd hire Edward to set this up.
1:18:30I mean, I never set any of this stuff for my company. You gotta hire people like Edward to be able to do it. Okay?
1:18:35So I think a link to him is in the description or what have you. So when we did this, we used Aloware and HubSpot, right, was our tech stack. Aloware and GHL works too.
1:18:44I'm not a big fan of GHL, but HubSpot's much better. So back when we did this whole thing and Edward set it up for us, it was Aloware plus HubSpot. Now the new way and this is why I had the beginning preface.
1:18:53It's like, I'm not trying to just shill dialer.io. But the reason we built Dialer is because we realized this process was a mess, and it'd just be much easier if it was all in one software. So as you can see, you know, the above process, it's not perfect.
1:19:08But it's the best we could do for years, and so we package that all in to Dialer. So Dialer does it all for you, basically. It's like all the setters gotta do is they log in, they go dial.
1:19:19And it just does the algorithm perfectly, which is why we've generally seen 50 to a 100% increases in pickup rate from the clients using the software because they're working the leads in the most perfect way they can possibly work it, and they're also doing it in a TCPA compliant way, which is huge because most setters don't do that at all.
1:19:38They'll call you know, you have rogue setters who call, like, leads, like, nine times in a freaking day. Like, you can't do that compliantly. So it makes it makes them work compliantly, which also keeps your lines from actually burning, and then that will kill your pickup rates.
1:19:51And then it also you know, because it's working perfectly, you get better results and all that good stuff. Okay? So, obviously, I have an interest in you using it.
1:19:57I think it's what you should use because, like, of all the, you know, things I'm saying here. But even if I didn't own an interest, it'd still be my legit recommendation. The only thing I'll say about dialer, and there's a link below if you wanna check it out, but the only thing I'll say about it is because we have to set this up on the front end for every single client, there is more setup involved in dialer than other dialers.
1:20:16Like most dialers, it's a Chrome extension or whatever extension, super easy to do. You upload your list, you go to town.
1:20:22Okay? With this, obviously, because we've to set all this stuff up, it's a little bit more work.
1:20:28It takes a week or two to set up for clients, but it's worth it. It's what we use. So now we're gonna go into dialing logic best practices.
1:20:36Okay? So regardless of what option you choose, you should at least be informed on what the best practices are when someone sets this up for you.
1:20:43Okay? Obviously, they get this stuff because this is, like, why they build it.
1:20:47Edward, he also gets it. But maybe you use somebody else. You have an existing tech guy.
1:20:51This is the kind of the stuff you wanna tell them. So the best practices here are the new leads should be contacted immediately. Duh.
1:20:58K? New leads that are further down the funnel are higher priority than leads less down the funnel. So, like, higher AOV is better than low AOV.
1:21:06Apps, no bookings are better than opt ins. Okay? Three dials in the first day, and you can look at doing more.
1:21:12I I just look into the compliance rules around that. I know we do three. And so three dials in the first day, one is immediate, the other two are ideally during peak hours.
1:21:20The other thing is that every new lead that comes in should be automatically enrolled into an email sequence that doesn't look like a marketing email. It looks like it's a direct outreach from the setter.
1:21:30Okay? And that's completely automated. The setter doesn't have to do anything.
1:21:32And we'll cover the scripting of that in just a second. Then you want immediate texting of all new leads. Okay?
1:21:39So usually the first three or four texts are completely automated. We'll cover all the scripts in a second. And you're gonna have different sequences because I recommend having sequences for non business hours and sequences for business hours.
1:21:53Then you're also going to want the setters to maximize peak call time. Right?
1:21:58So you should know what peak call time is, and have setters maximize peak call time. Okay? Then I usually recommend a five to seven day cadence.
1:22:06Like, long should you even really work the leads in the system before it's not worth it? Usually, it's about five days. Okay?
1:22:12Because at that point, you just rather hit the new leads more times than hit the old leads longer times. Okay? That's just what I found as the trade off.
1:22:18And then after day five or day seven, whatever it is, you still hit those leads.
1:22:25But when you're at a bigger scale, maybe you have three, four, five setters plus, you start to hire pipeline setters. Okay? And those are people responsible for hitting leads from day five to day like 90.
1:22:35Okay? But as you can imagine, because those leads are less responsive, you have to give more pie more leads per setter to the pipeline setters.
1:22:44Like, might have to if your thing is 800 leads per month per setter, you might have to give 3,000 per setter per month for the pipeline setters. Right?
1:22:53So you just have to think about that, and, uh, it might even be more. I don't know. I'd have to check out what our metric actually is.
1:22:59And then also, you wanna prioritize more recent leads. So, obviously, day two leads are better than day three leads.
1:23:04Uh, you wanna use weighting criteria if appropriate. Like, if you're doing credit score or liquidity, you wanna have that in there. And you also wanna have unenrollment criteria and tagging, like if they book a demo through the setter text or marketing, it need or if they say, hey.
1:23:16Do not call me. It needs to unenroll them from the actual sequence. Okay?
1:23:20So now we're gonna get into oh, and then in terms of texting, in terms of best practices, For texting, I usually recommend automating it. AI can be good too, so we'll cover that in a second. But for apps, no booking specifically.
1:23:32So for your apps that don't book, have your setters hit those people up in their logic sequence. But generally, I find that that is something that you can use just basic SalesKicks AI SMS or just set up an SMS through your dialer automatically to just rebook those leads back to book a call while you have your setters actually call them.
1:23:50Like, it doesn't really make sense for your setters to text those leads because it's just very basic, and, you know, you can that way you don't have to pay the commissions because you're gonna get a lot of people who are rebooking through the text, and you just might as well automate that through your marketing system opposed to having the setters text them, and then you gotta pay setter commissions for somebody who would easily book through an automation.
1:24:06Hopefully, that makes sense. Okay? So have the setters call, and then essentially have the automation rebook.
1:24:14So, again, I'd recommend reach out to Edward, Dialer, or whatever to get this set up. If you're hiring your first setter, don't be overwhelmed. Oh my god.
1:24:20I gotta do all this stuff. Just give them the theory. Let them rip.
1:24:23It's gonna be fine. Okay? You're gonna be fine.
1:24:25If you're enjoying this conversation and you wanna be in a room of people who are just like the people I have on this podcast so you can ultimately network with the highest level people in the industry and up level your business, you should fly out to meet us in Scotland at the end of July. So this is a one time opportunity where you can get a ticket to actually be able to come if you qualify to network and get content and ultimately work with me and my team and so many other high level speakers in the industry in Scotland at the end of July.
1:24:52So you have to be doing at least a $100,000 a month in your business to qualify. If not, don't bother with it. But if that's you and you're trying to scale to 10,000,000 or even 20,000,000 or a 100,000,000 a year, there's other people in the room who have done that, and the speakers I'm gonna have in Scotland have done that too.
1:25:09So check out the link in the description and see if you qualify. And if you do, book a call with my team. We'll talk about the ticket price to be able to come.
1:25:15This is the only time you're gonna be able to do this, so take advantage of it. Now back to the podcast. And now we're gonna move on to how to determine your peak calling hours.
1:25:22So I've mentioned this a few times, and so it's very, very simple. All you gotta do to determine peak calling hours is pull the HubSpot answer rate data into a CSV, and then you run that through ClawCode and have ClawCode tell you.
1:25:34Bada bing, bada boom. Done. Not to beat to beat a dead horse, dialer or dialer OS, they'll do this for you automatically.
1:25:40Most others won't do it. But we've seen companies figure out their peak call hours, and they figure out, like, oh, man, our peak call hours or peak answer rates are four to 7PM.
1:25:51And then they shift their setter work schedules to adjust for it, and, literally, it can be, like, a 50% increase in production. So it's pretty crazy. So it's just something you wanna think about doing at some point.
1:26:00Now pipeline setters. So the setters who hit, it's a separate team, and it's the setters who hit the cold beats. We're gonna talk about this.
1:26:07It's pretty cool. So as a backstory, over the years, I've built up a ton of old leads in my CRM.
1:26:14You know, we run a lot of marketing. We spent millions and millions and millions and millions and millions on ads. And I've always known that we should hit these, but I never really prioritized it.
1:26:25Okay? Because it was like, whatever. You know?
1:26:28And at the one of my masterminds not too long ago, one of my clients, Tom, he had mentioned that he had added approximately $10,000,000 a year to his business just by hitting old leads. And so I got my head off my ass, and I started doing it. And guess what?
1:26:41It worked. So what is the actual process for it? Well, the process is after day five, transition all the leads from, like, the the day five cutoff to a new list that's just called pipeline.
1:26:53And then you can create a similar dialing logic here. I just don't think it's as important at this point. It's just they're all leads.
1:26:58You just power them out. And usually, we just do most recent to least least recent. Right?
1:27:02And we go up to ninety days. And what's important is using a dialer system that can power out a lot of leads quickly. I know I'm like, at this point, I feel like I'm just pitching and chilling dialer like crazy, but dialer.ao is really good at this.
1:27:12But some power dialers are better at hitting volume than others. You wanna hit you wanna use a high volume dialer for this type of thing because these people are gonna be making, like, two, three, four, five hundred dials a day. Okay?
1:27:23Because their answer rates aren't gonna be that high. So you need something that can move quickly. Alright?
1:27:28And so what I've learned in terms of how many leads per pipeline setter, it's hard to define, but what I've found is for about every four normal setters you have, try having one pipeline setter. So if we have four normal MDRs who are hitting all the leads within five days based on their volume coming in, we probably need one pipeline setter.
1:27:50So I'd start there and then just, you know, try it out, gauge it, and see what works for you. Now important thing here is, generally, you either have to pay these guys increased commissions or increased base.
1:28:01I recommend base because sometimes these guys might fill they might fill in for a inbound setter. So the reason why is you have to pay them a little bit more because all of their metrics are gonna be a little bit less, and their close rates, frankly, aren't gonna probably be as high as your inbound setters because the leads are older.
1:28:18Right? They're less fresh off the marketing. Okay?
1:28:21And then the on track earnings in terms of pay for this should be like 15% to 25% lower than your inbound setters. So it kind of like think about the pipeline setters as like a junior role.
1:28:31What's really nice about it is it acts as your bench that you can ultimately promote these people over time to an actual inbound setter. Okay?
1:28:40But what's really key is is I recommend if you have to pay them more and you have to choose between commission and base, I'd recommend just paying them a higher base. Because what happens is is, like, let's say one of your inbound setters is sick or they're on vacation and they're out for a week.
1:28:54Well, you're gonna probably move up one of your pipeline setters for a week. And then what happens is is they're getting all this increased commission on leads that really you shouldn't be paying increased commission for.
1:29:04Does that make sense? So there you go. Now here is all the scripts you need.
1:29:10Okay? This font got messed up, but we're gonna go through all the scripting now. All the scripts you need, email, SMS, phone.
1:29:18And we're gonna do it revised based on based on different situations, adjustment adjustments for different funnels, all of that stuff. So we're gonna start with the texting scripts.
1:29:28Okay? So this is like imagine it's a call funnel. Alright?
1:29:33And so this is the text messages that are gonna come. I'm also gonna give you a PDF that is going to really explain this and have it in a flow that all makes sense. So I'm gonna give you two variations you can start with, but this is the text that's gonna go out.
1:29:46Uh, in most cases, this is gonna be automated. You could also not do it automated. You just have your people send it.
1:29:50I think automated is much better. So the text goes like this. Hey, John.
1:29:54Sam here from Cole Gordon's team, parentheses, Closer dot a o. Send. Okay?
1:29:58So I'm just gonna address this now. You're gonna see a lot of these sends. So the reason you wanna do that is because when you're texting a friend, you usually, like, text a sentence, text a sentence, text a sentence.
1:30:10Like, you don't send a big block. You send multiple messages. And so even though these are automated, or even if they're not automated, we want them to seem like they're coming from a human.
1:30:18Because a lot of times, the first reaction from the prospect is, this is a robot, and then they don't wanna respond. Right? So whether it's AI, whether it's automation, you should be able to set it up this way where it goes send, send, send.
1:30:30So it's three blocks. It makes it look like a person. Okay?
1:30:33So I've addressed that now. So now you know why there's all these sends there. So, hey, Sam.
1:30:37Just call or, uh, hey. Sam here from Cole Gordon's team. Close dot a o, parentheses, send.
1:30:41Saw you responded to our ad about placing salespeople in your business. Okay? Or whatever, you know, saw saw you responded to our ad about, you know, potentially getting supplementation around your SIBO.
1:30:54Whatever it is. Okay? Send.
1:30:56Did you find the setters you were looking for, or are you still looking? Right? So Saw you responded to our ad about placing salespeople in your business.
1:31:03Did you find the salespeople you were looking for, or are you still looking? K. I really look and be like, I'm still looking.
1:31:09And then you go into it after that. This is variation two. You can use this as well.
1:31:14Hey, John. Same here from Cole Gordon's team closed at a o send. Saw you just wanted to add about potentially getting some salespeople in your business, question mark.
1:31:20Is that right, Question mark. Okay? So you can test both of these, see what works better for you.
1:31:26Now, this is variation three, but it's the call funnel, but specifically for non business hours. Okay?
1:31:33So this would be automated. Right? Now if you're using AI for everything, you know, it's just going be AI all the time.
1:31:39But this is going to be always automated no matter what. And so this would be and the reason why is is obviously you want a text going out so we can achieve speed to lead with text in the non business hours. And through the automation, we're gonna be able to book some of the calls essentially, like some fifteen minute appointments, simply through text at, like, 10PM or 2AM or whatever.
1:31:58Or at least at the very least, the setters are gonna wake up the next day with some text responses and conversations. Like, maybe you can just hit the first one and then have your automation hit the first one, and then the setters have all the responses they can feel the next day via text and also call in those people, etcetera.
1:32:12Okay? So the non business hours one is, hey, John.
1:32:16Same here from closer.a or from Cole Gordon's team, parentheses, closer.ao. Send. Saw you responded to an ad about potentially getting, uh, help with placing salespeople in your business.
1:32:24I wanted to check-in and see if I could help. Send. Technically, I'm off right now, but if you're open to a quick convo, grab a time tomorrow or this week, happy to help.
1:32:32Link. Right? And this would be your fifteen minute triage link.
1:32:36Alright? A lot of people will book. Now, the next one is specifically for buyer funnels without the implementation call.
1:32:44Okay? So hey, John, Sam here from Cole Gordon's team, close.io. Was calling about product name that you just purchased.
1:32:52We do a one on one call with every new member of product. Just gave you a shout, but couldn't get ahold of you. When would be a good time to chat?
1:33:00I can drop my calendar link here if that's easier. Send. Okay?
1:33:03So that's what that looks like. Then message two would be this. Okay?
1:33:08So you can just look at this. I don't think I need to read all this. I think I I think you get all the principles and what have you now.
1:33:14Message three would be this. And then when they respond okay.
1:33:19This is what's really key. When they respond, immediately call first, like double dial first, and then text back.
1:33:26Right? Like, when they respond, immediately dial so we can just get them on the phone. That's the whole point.
1:33:31If we can't get them on the phone, we're gonna text back. Right? This is why also having phone setters actually involved with this opposed to just AI is pretty helpful.
1:33:40But we even had an AI system when we were doing RCA that did all this, but the setters could interject at any time and watch the conversation. So obviously, this lead is a higher priority.
1:33:49It goes into a higher bucket. And if they don't answer, you send the following. Hey.
1:33:52Awesome. Happy to help. What's your week looking like?
1:33:54I can drop my calendar link here if that's easier. Okay? Then when they ask you to drop the calendar link, you say, hey.
1:33:59Okay. Book here link. Will you let me know if you find a time?
1:34:03My availability gets wonky sometimes. Okay? That's the phrase I've always used for my entire life.
1:34:07I don't know what wonky. I guess wonky means something. But this will you let me know if you find a time, there's like some I don't know if it's NLP or what it is, but that will you language, not can you, I've tested this because I've done so much DM setting and text setting over the years, that you'll it it it kinda provides this commitment to where they always will come back and let you know if they found a time, or when they found a time, or whatever.
1:34:33So this is an image that really shows you the entire flow based on if they came in during business hours, didn't come in during business hours, or if they've, uh, if it's a buyer funnel.
1:34:44Okay? And I've also linked this all here. Right?
1:34:47So this will kinda help you visualize it, and it makes more sense. Alright? And so by the way, the big mistake is that you gotta realize these people already applied and came in for information.
1:34:56So I don't know why people do this, but I see like a QC text or DMs on social sometimes. And it's different if they opted in for a PDF that's just like a know, it's an indirect lead.
1:35:08Right? It's just a lead magnet. It's not intent based.
1:35:11But oftentimes, with like a funnel like this, it's all intent based. You know? It's like a direct offer or whatever.
1:35:16If they applied for information about an offer, you don't have to have like a 17 freaking text conversation. You're gonna have a massive drop off during that. It's one or two texts, three texts, boom call.
1:35:27Okay? The purpose of quali like the worst thing you can do over the DMs is qualify somebody. I know that seems a little controversial, but really what your your setter should be doing is the triage should be for the qualifying over the phone.
1:35:39The more you qualify over the DMs, the bigger the drop off you're going to get. So if you're trying to maximize throughput, it's a different question if you're not. But if you're trying to maximize throughput, what you're gonna wanna do is you're gonna wanna save the qualifying for the triage.
1:35:52The conversation should really just be one, three questions, boom. Right?
1:35:57If it's an indirect DM conversation, again, that's a different training, we're really focusing on selling the conversation and widening gap in pain, not necessarily qualifying. So I do wanna touch on TCPA laws as we talked about text. Again, I am not an attorney.
1:36:11Okay? So if you are serious about this, you should be, you should check with an attorney about all your texts. Now I will say you do need to include stop in every text.
1:36:19I typically make it a little bit more personal, so it doesn't seem as automated. That's why I wanted to talk about this. And so, like, I'll tack this on at the end of every single message, and you can send it as a separate message.
1:36:31Okay? So I'll say, by the oh, here it is.
1:36:35I'll say, by the way, if you don't want me to message you, just reply stop, and I'll take you off my list. That's better than, like, the automated thing they require you to do.
1:36:43It just is a little bit better language. So, it's also for appointment setting.
1:36:47You don't want to talk to your attorney or even look this up, but it's debatable if you need to include this on every message or just the first message. The rules are very strict if, like, you're an ecommerce company and you're, like, texting people discounts and stuff. That's where people can get sued out the wazoo, and there's very strict rules.
1:37:06For appointment setting right now, especially if it's mainly through a human setter, I think the rules are a little bit in a gray area. But again, not an attorney, not legal advice.
1:37:15Go get an attorney if you want legal advice. I'm not an attorney, not legal advice. Okay.
1:37:19So now we're gonna talk about a quick note on AI and automation. I would a 100% at least automate the first text as we already covered. This is a sure speed to lead.
1:37:28And then through certain texting systems, even if it's not fully AI, you can actually get the entire thing automated pretty easily. There's also AI to where you can use AI to do the whole entire thing too to make it a little bit more easy and just give them the kind of the frameworks and the training they already gave.
1:37:42And so whether you wanna do AI or automation, that's up to you. At the very least, I would automate at least the first text. And I'd also make sure that your setters are involved in monitoring the sequences, which they which they should be based on their lead list of seeing who responds.
1:37:56So they can always, like, turn off the AI or turn off the automation and butt in if it's, like, a very complex question or it's something weird or whatever. Right?
1:38:05Like, that case and you could even in some AIs, you can even set it up to where it will ping the actual setter to be able to know to interject and all that stuff. So that's just a quick thing on AI and automations. So now we're gonna move on to email.
1:38:18Okay. So again, this should happen automatically.
1:38:20This should auto enroll in all these sequences. All the emails are gonna happen twenty four hours apart. And all the text, by the way, are twenty four hours apart except for the responses.
1:38:29I didn't mention that. So these are gonna be twenty four hours apart. So the lead's gonna, uh, opt in.
1:38:35It's gonna auto enroll to the email, send it immediately. It should look like it comes from the center, not a company email, not a promotional email. And every email is going to include a link to schedule.
1:38:44But if any email replies, it should trigger a call in the dialing logic, and then there should be some sort of notification that somebody knows to go back in there and reply if they don't answer. So here's basically the email.
1:38:56Hey, John. Name here from closures dot a o, Cool Worden's team. So you saw you responded about an ad about getting salespeople into your business.
1:39:02Did you find the salespeople you're looking for? Are you still looking? If you're still looking, we'd love to chat.
1:39:06Will you let me know if you find a time here? Name, company title. Okay?
1:39:09So you can go through these emails. They're pretty straightforward. And with that said, we're gonna move on to the fun stuff, which is the call scripts.
1:39:18So you wanna think about it this way. There's two types of setter calls.
1:39:24Okay? There's outbound calls, and there's triage calls. So what's an outbound call?
1:39:30So an outbound call is you outbound dial, they pick up, you engage enough to push the call into discovery, then you transition from discovery and pitch a call with a closer, and then you qualify at the end after they're already booked, if necessary. We'll talk about how that looks.
1:39:44And then you tie down that they're actually gonna show up. Okay? A triage call is the appointment was already set on your calendar via text or a direct booking because it was a two grade app.
1:39:55Maybe they book from the email, whatever. So here, you're either going to get on Zoom with them or phone dial them. And they're actually expecting the call.
1:40:04So you started a little bit differently because it was like basic rapport and frame the call, just like a closer call. Then you go into discovery and the rest is the same. Okay?
1:40:11So sometimes, I mean, outbound calls inside of an outbound call is a triage call, if you want think about it this way. But it's it's important to understand there's kind of different things going on.
1:40:22We're also going to cover but we're we're going start with covering a full outbound call because that's kinda like the the most raw thing I can show you. And then I'm gonna show you all the different variations for buyer leads, calling no shows, pipeline setting, and implementation call.
1:40:38And, again, implementation call and sorry, implementation call, I'm just gonna send you this link. Alright? So here's kind of a diagram that explains this.
1:40:45It's basically what I explained. The outbound call has a triage call inside of it. So what we're gonna do is we're gonna go with the outbound call first, and then all the variations after that.
1:40:53Okay? So what does the outbound script actually look like? Here's the outbound call flow process.
1:40:58So first, there's an introduction that includes the hook of how we start the call, and then an agreement that we're gonna get to move the discovery. Then we have the discovery, which is kinda like sales call light.
1:41:10Alright? So why are they here?
1:41:12Background information, we isolate the problems, we chunk it down, we get a need payoff. Alright? Then we have transition, which is a firm you can help, reference somebody you've helped in the past, and then pitch the value of meeting with a closer.
1:41:22Then we're gonna have schedule, which is you pick a time, tie it on them showing up, make them accept the invite, and then qualify, which is you ask any hard hitting qualifying questions here. We're gonna talk about why you do that in a second, why you don't do it on discovery, even though you kinda can qualify discovery too, but we'll talk about that.
1:41:38And then you end the call by committing them to watch the pre call video, then you end the call. Okay? That's the flow.
1:41:43Alright? So a big question I get is how deep should the setter actually go into discovery versus a closer?
1:41:49Right? I get this question all the time, like, hey. The sales processes are kinda similar.
1:41:54How deep does my setter go? How deep does my closer go? Because I don't want the call to be repetitive.
1:41:58Right? So, again, we just went through the setter flow. Okay?
1:42:02So you kinda see, like, what the discovery looks like here. This is what the closer discovery looks like. So it's like, you know, this is almost like sales call light.
1:42:10Right? Whereas the closer, what we're doing is is the beginning might be pretty similar, but we're going way deeper into the pain, what they've tried in the past, how it's affecting other areas of life, what's the cost, and ultimately a lot more on goals. Right?
1:42:24So it's gonna be like twice as long, potentially fifteen to twenty minutes depending on the prospect. Whereas a center discovery might be five to ten minutes because you're just kinda getting down to what the problem is, chunking it down, which is the same, then basically what happened if the problem is fixed, which is the payoff.
1:42:39That'll make more sense when we go into the script. K? Now, few things before we start.
1:42:43I highly recommend you check out the other sales training videos on my YouTube channel or in the school portal in SDA, because all the closer sales trainings that I have, they go way you know, the I I can't put all everything I know about sales in this video.
1:42:59I'd be here for seven hours. So they go way more into the sales psychology, the different nuances, the different tactics that you can use during the call.
1:43:08Right? So because this training is so large, I'm just kind of giving you the essential essentials in terms of the setter call process here.
1:43:17Okay? So now, also, what I recommend is you can check out me actually doing a setter call in this link, and then I also have more in the SDA training. Okay?
1:43:27And so oh, and then last thing, is the example script I'm going to give you is for somebody who's selling something that helps with lead gen. Right?
1:43:37So like imagine you're like a marketing agency or something, or you're like a program or a coaching program that, uh, helps businesses with their lead gen. Okay?
1:43:45That's gonna be what the script is modeled after, but, uh, I'm gonna give you some nuances at the end of how to adjust this for non ROI offers, for biz op offers, etcetera, so you can understand kinda how it works.
1:43:57Okay? So again, this is gonna be kind of an overview. If you want really the advanced sales stuff, the advanced sales psychology, all the nuances, you go to YouTube channel, or there's a lot of stuff in SDA.
1:44:08There's obviously the full closer training that's like the real advanced advanced stuff. And a lot of that does apply for the setters as well. So let's start.
1:44:16So the first start and the first phase of the call is the introduction. So it'd be like and again and again, this is an outbound call. So I'm outbound dialing somebody.
1:44:25Sorry about that. I'm outbound dialing somebody, and then they're gonna be answered. They're gonna hello.
1:44:29Okay. I'm gonna say, John? Hey, John.
1:44:31Just Cole here from Closer dot a o. It looks like you responded to an ad about installing a lead generation system into your business. Does that ring a bell?
1:44:39Hey. Well, I wanted to reach out to see if you found the help that you were looking for or if you're still looking. They're gonna say I'm still looking.
1:44:45Okay. Great. Well, look, I'm more than prepared to share with you a lot of the stuff we might be able to help with.
1:44:51But just so I can be respectful of your time, do you mind if I take a few minutes just to get some context on your business? And then that way, I'll only share with you the parts about what we do that'd be useful for you specifically.
1:45:02Is that cool? And then you do a slight pause, and then you just roll into the the right next question.
1:45:09Okay. Great. Well, the best place to start then is, obviously, you responded to an ad about getting more leads in your business, and you wanna learn about what we offer and all the information on that.
1:45:19But before we get into any of that, tell me a little bit more about what's happening in your business now that made you wanna reach out. Okay? So remember the framework in the very beginning, the flow, introduction, hook, agreement to move to discovery, that's what we just did.
1:45:34Okay? So what did I do there? Listen to my tonality.
1:45:38Alright? So, you know, when you're talking to a screen right now, when you're talking to a Google Doc, your tonality is not that good.
1:45:47I mean, so bear with me, but my tonality, is important here. And the thing is is that I could have a terrible script.
1:45:55And to be honest, if I had good tonality, you can just pull it off. Alright? Most setters, when you're reviewing your setters' calls, their tonality is zero out of 10.
1:46:04John John, Jess Cole, here. Closer.aiout.
1:46:08I mean, I've seen the worst shit ever that you could see. I'm like, guys, how could you like, you're you're asking why your setters aren't good and if there's a problem with your script. Your setter sounds like they're drunk.
1:46:18Come on. You Okay? So listen to my tonality.
1:46:22Again, that's way more important than the script a lot of times. Now, the initial question here, you could also use instead of, hey, did you find the salespeople you were looking for?
1:46:32Are you still looking? You could also say, did someone on our team reach out to you and speak to you yet, or are you still waiting on information? Honestly, if you just say it with good tonality, either is fine.
1:46:44But if you have an issue with one, you can maybe try the other. The thing is is this presupposes. There's actually a presupposition that they're that they want information, which they do because they responded to an ad.
1:46:54Okay? Now this is also important. I take away in this script the, hey, I just want to see what you do, get information, all this stuff.
1:47:04I take it away several times throughout. Okay? So I do it by you know, I if you watch kinda how I go into the agreement aspect of things, I say, I'm more than prepared to share with you all the information about what we do.
1:47:17And then later on, I say, obviously, you respond to an ad about getting more leads in your business, and I know you want to get all the information about what we offer and how all that works. And we'll get to that. But first, tell me, okay?
1:47:28So the reason and that's all right here. Right?
1:47:32The reason and, you know, the the first phrase was right here, is because a lot of times, if you're like, hey. So what made you reach out?
1:47:39They're like, well, I want information. So it's like, what made you reach out? You know?
1:47:44Hey. Why did you respond to the end? Oh, I just wanted to see what you do.
1:47:47So, you know, in communication, if we first address it and we're proactive and we address it and take it away first, then what happens is they can't say it.
1:47:59So what I did here is I took away that objection by addressing it first. Right? And the phrase here that's really key is is what's happening in your business right now that ultimately made you wanna reach out?
1:48:14Even that kind of, like, breaks in the tonality. So what's happening in your business right now that made you ultimately wanna reach out?
1:48:22See, that's very key that you kind of, like, do that. I mean, if your sellers can't do that yet, that's okay. Mainly, I just wanna make sure they sound like they're not drunk.
1:48:29But these little things, they matter a lot. This is why I mean, I can just pick up a phone and just say whatever.
1:48:34I mean, if you have good tonality, people are just going be like, wow, this person's not you're to realize most people who get outbound calls and answer outbound calls, they have never once had a good sales experience from answering an outbound call to where the person was sounded smart, sounded smooth, sounded positive with good energy.
1:48:52Like, it's so rare it even happens. If you just show up in a way that, like, you sound like an intelligent person, you can get 90% of the way there. Because the baseline, your competition is so bad.
1:49:05Okay? Which is why you're taking this training. So the other thing is too is what I do with kind of like my frame the call here from my outbound call is what I'm always doing is I'm aligning their goal, which is information, with my goal, which is to get them to buy into doing a discovery with me.
1:49:21I'm aligning their goal and their goal. Prospects always just want the information. Once they have all the information, they don't need you.
1:49:26Right? You wanna know why they're here. You wanna know the pain.
1:49:29You wanna know discovery. You wanna get in all this information so you can create an angle. And and so if you look at the phraseology I'm using here, what I'm doing is it's like, hey, I'm more than prepared to get into this, but everything we do is a little bit customized.
1:49:43So in order for me to give you the information that's just gonna be relevant to you, let me learn a little bit about your business. So probably the best way to start is, you know, what's happening in your business right now that ultimately made you wanna reach out.
1:49:54You see how that works. Right? It's like I'm saying, hey.
1:49:56In order to get what you want, let's do it this way. It'll be way better for you. Okay?
1:50:00So now we're gonna get into discovery. So the first part of discovery, again, if you look at the call flow, right, is now we're oh, that's closures.
1:50:08Right? We did the intro. Now we're gonna go into why we're here.
1:50:11Right? Why are we here? Okay?
1:50:13And so the place we're gonna start is right where we ended off, which is okay, but tell me a little bit more about what's happening in your business right now that ultimately made you wanna reach out.
1:50:25Now, what's gonna happen here is they're gonna respond, and they might tell you their problem or they might not. Okay?
1:50:32Anyhow, I'm just gonna ask a few probing questions. Tell me more. What do you mean?
1:50:35Hey, when you said this, what did you mean exactly? They say, oh, I have a lack in sales. Oh, lack in sales?
1:50:40Like, in what way specifically? Okay? So this is not rocket science.
1:50:43You're just gonna ask essentially some probing questions.
1:50:48Alright? So you also may get some vague general information, like, oh, well, I I I just wanted to see how I could improve.
1:50:56Alright? So when you get that, you need to make sure you can get the problem. And so you have two options here.
1:51:02The first thing is you can press them and you can clarify. Well, hey, I get that. But when it comes to what's happening with your lead generation right now, like, I guess what would you say is your biggest challenge?
1:51:11Or, like, you know, what's not working at the level it could be that it should? Okay? That's a good phrase that you can use.
1:51:16I'd always try that first. And even the way I ask it, like, what would you say is your biggest challenge? Or, like, what's not working at the level it could be that it should?
1:51:23So I soften it with my tonality there. Now sometimes if they're a real hard ass, they'll be like, pull it.
1:51:30You know, there's there's no challenges. I just wanted to see how we could improve our leads. Okay.
1:51:34Got it. So I know everything's working right now, and you just wanna make it better. But, like, just so I can help you the most here, narrow this down for me and get specific.
1:51:41So, like, what exactly needs to be working better? Like, if you think about where lead gen really could be, what's the one or two things that if improved would take your lead gen to the next level?
1:51:52Okay? So what we can do here is this allows us to get more clear on isolating the problem, right, which is what we're doing in this section, before moving on to the next section.
1:52:04Now, the other thing that we can do is we can just chunk it down. So like a lot of times, they're just like, hey, you know, I want help with my leads. Oh, nothing's really not working right now, and they're just kind of being a hard ass.
1:52:14Well, certain in certain situations, in certain offers, especially with b two b like this one, I could just bypass that and go through the chunking down framework, which we're going to get to in a second, and I'll just find the problem myself.
1:52:28So it really depends on, can you ask discovery questions in a way where you can just find the problem yourself by looking at numbers? If you can, you can just chunk it down. If you can't, you gotta press them and really more clarify.
1:52:39And you could do both too, because we're gonna chunk down no matter what. Now before we get to the chunking down, what we're gonna do is we're gonna ask for background information.
1:52:48So we're gonna be like, okay. You know, this is more for b to b usually than it is for b to c, but you could have some b to c stuff here too. Like, maybe you're b to c and you have a medical offer.
1:52:57You might have to ask some medical questions like, do they have cancer? Do they have this? Do they have that?
1:53:01Just to make sure you can actually even help the person. So with b to b, the reason we ask background information is because a lot of times, like, we we don't really know who's coming on the phone. We kinda know why they reached out.
1:53:12But if they say they have a lead gen problem and they're a $10,000,000 company versus a company who's pre rep doing zero, know, those are kind of two different conversations, and we kind of need to know that context before going further. So I'd like to see why they're here, then go into the background information.
1:53:25So I'll say, okay, great. You know, what's your offer exactly? What and and the way I like to break down their offer is, so what problem do you solve for who and what price point?
1:53:33Okay. And who's the perfect client that you're working with, or that you really want to work with? And is that the type of client that you're working with right now?
1:53:40Which are going to say no. Okay. Well, why do you think that is?
1:53:42What's happening there? Right? And then sometimes I look at the delivery as well.
1:53:44I also do a little partner qualification here. The way I like to do this is instead of being a nerd and saying, well, is there anybody else who needs to be on this call for you to make a decision later?
1:53:55I'll just say, how does your leadership structure work? And they'll be like, do you mean? Well, do you have partners?
1:54:00Who's on your leadership team? What does that look like? And so that seems like a very business context question, and it doesn't seem like I'm qualifying them, but I am.
1:54:09And then if they have a partner, I'm gonna ask, oh, you know, what's that name? Okay. And how I'm just curious.
1:54:13How do you guys divide responsibilities? Are you the marketing person and they're the fulfillment person, or how does that work? Okay.
1:54:17Great. And you guys are fifty fifty? Okay.
1:54:21And are you guys on the same page about your lead generation being on the problem, or what do they think? All right.
1:54:26So a lot of these two, if you notice, like I said, how do you guys divide responsibility? Are you the marketing and salesperson or the fulfillment person?
1:54:34I'm making an assumption, and I'm allowing them to correct the record that'll give me more information. Okay. And you guys are fifty fifty?
1:54:40So, you know, it's a lit it's better to ask it that way than say, how do you who has what equity? It's kind of invasive.
1:54:48If you say, oh, and you guys are fifty fifty? No. No.
1:54:50No. I'm I'm 80. They're 20%.
1:54:52You see how, like, they have to correct the record in that case, especially those hard ass guys. So some key points here.
1:54:57I already kinda mentioned, like, it's really key to know. This is why in b to b, we get a little background information. But, you know, in b to c, like my fiance does gut health coaching and functional medicine, you know, she has to start off by asking, like, hey.
1:55:09Do you have cancer? Do you have this? Do you have that?
1:55:11Like, she has to get a little medical history. That's kinda her version after why are we here of the background information and history.
1:55:18Right? So that's kind of the b to c version of this.
1:55:22And then the other reason that we do the background information first, okay, is that it's easy and it's noninvasive. Right?
1:55:31So what that does is it gets them in a frequency and a pattern of just answering our questions because they're easy questions, you know, especially like a medical question or like, what's your offer?
1:55:41What do you do? It gets them in this pattern of asking questions. So once we get to the real questions, which we're gonna get to in a second, they're kind of already in this pattern of of asking it, and they can kinda like lull into it as the questions get a little bit more invasive.
1:55:54Okay? Hopefully, that makes sense. So once we do that, we're gonna move on to isolating the problem, chunking down, and getting a need payoff.
1:56:04That's basically the rest of discovery. So, also, after I go through background, I'll say, got it. So circling back, it seems like the main issue is lead generation.
1:56:11Is that correct? Okay. Great.
1:56:12And how are you getting leads right now? Okay. You're getting leads through Facebook ads, this, that, and the other.
1:56:17Okay. Is there any other ways you're getting clients? Okay.
1:56:20And let's see how that's working for you. So in the last thirty days, how much did you spend on ads? And how many sales calls did you book, and how many of those showed?
1:56:28And then earlier, you mentioned x y z was your perfect prospect. So out of the ones that showed up, how many of those fit the bill exactly of the perfect prospect you just mentioned earlier?
1:56:38They're gonna be like, none. Okay. And why do you think that is?
1:56:41Because it can all really, it could be two reasons. It could be that the method or the funnel that you're using to attract those people is wrong, or it could be the messaging. So which one do you think it is?
1:56:49Maybe it's a little bit of both. Okay. And so you add x y z show, going back to our numbers here.
1:56:53How many closed and at what price point? Okay. So last month, you did x route in revenue.
1:57:00Okay. So great. X amount in revenue was your revenue last month.
1:57:03Now, also, you closed 15% of the calls you took. You know, we typically see in your industry, like, we have a client x y and z who's doing this.
1:57:10We typically see people like that doing 25 to 30%. It's usually either in our experience, because it's either the lead quality or the sales process.
1:57:17So which one of those two do you think it is? Okay. And why do you say that though?
1:57:20K. Now at this point, if we isolated more problems, like they might have a lead gen problem and a recruiting problem or something, I don't know, we would go through that another sequence like that for the next problem. Okay.
1:57:32But one problem is fine. And so we'll cap it off by saying, okay, great. And so let me ask you this.
1:57:37If you were able to solve your lead generation problem to where instead of talking with people who are 20% qualified, you were able to talk to the right amount of people, or the right people at the right amount of volume so imagine you had five calls a day of the exact x, y, and z prospect you described as the real person you want to work with, and so you had five of those a day, about 80 a month.
1:57:58What do you think you'd be closing at, and what do you think your revenue would be? Okay. Great.
1:58:03And so you see that's the need payoff question? Alright. So a couple things here is in terms of key points of what I did.
1:58:13Right? So in the shot across the bowel, which is kind of the beginning, that's like the why are we here, we should have identified the problem.
1:58:20If not, you need to identify it ASAP. Okay? The reason why is business is about solving problems.
1:58:25When you solve a problem, you create value, and people exchange money for value. And so we know that to be true. Sales is really just a demonstration you can solve a problem for somebody else.
1:58:32So if there's no problem, though, there's no sale. So the entire sales conversation should be framed around a problem.
1:58:39Right? So that's why we have to establish that in the very beginning. Think about it like the problem is you gotta you have a map.
1:58:44You gotta find the problem on your map, mark mark x, and start digging. Okay? And so once you identify that, you can progress in the chunking down.
1:58:52Even if they didn't tell you much, they're just like, yeah, I'm here for lead gen, but, you know, whatever, wanna see what you can do. Like, with that chunking down framework, we can usually identify what the real problem is anyways for them, which even paints us more as an authority.
1:59:07Okay? And so a lot of times, like, what chunking down is is chunking down is taking the vague and turning it into the specific. Right?
1:59:15And so it's like turning it into something you could put your finger on, or you could paint with a brush. So, like, they might say their problem is lead generation. Through chunking it down, we can figure out they had two calls in the last thirty days.
1:59:25Right? So I use this all realtors. And I'd be like, hey.
1:59:29You know, what's your what's your problem right now? Oh, I need more leads. How are you generating leads right now?
1:59:33Oh, I'm doing everything. I get this, and I get that, and I get that, and I get that. I'd be like, okay.
1:59:37Great. Well, let's see how it's all working for you. Because I'm like I'll I'll be like, that's let's see how it's all all that's working for you.
1:59:42How many leads or how many new appointments, listing appointments, did you get in the last thirty days? One. Okay.
1:59:49Well, you're doing all of these things, but you only have one appointment. Why is that? You see, I just got right to the problem.
1:59:55Because what happens a lot of times with these realtors is they you know, I try to dig into this Specific method and what's going on there. And they'd be like, oh, no.
2:00:02It's fine. I just want to see what you can do. Right?
2:00:05But now I've just gotten right to the problem. Okay? And so the other thing is too, people tend to generalize, delete, and distort, and ultimately minimize their situation.
2:00:13So chunking down and getting specific, it reveals the truth, which is usually much worse. That's why they're on the call. But they have a defense mechanism.
2:00:19That's what I want to tell you right away. Okay? And the thing is too is when you do that, it also surfaces the actual pain of the situation and how bad it really is.
2:00:27So to give you an example, when I get to that point, like, you know, with the real estate agents where they'd be like, really tough, really guarded, and they're, oh, here's all the ways I generate, ladies and Okay. Let's see how that's working for you. How many in the last thirty days?
2:00:39One. I'm telling you, once they say that, you will feel the tone of the conversation totally change.
2:00:47Right? Because they finally it's like surface the pain. Okay?
2:00:51That's what's key about this. So adjusting this for other offers, just some pointers. Right?
2:00:56So like if you're dating, how many dates? How many were actually interested? Versus like immediate knows.
2:01:00Oh my gosh. Like as soon as they walked up, I knew it wasn't it. How many moved to the second date?
2:01:04Oh, and then why did it end? What happened? You know?
2:01:06Okay. What is generally the pattern of the problem you're dealing with? Oh, blah, blah, blah, blah.
2:01:11Okay, well, give me a specific example of how that shows up. And, Okay, what was the last really bad date or experience you had? What happened?
2:01:19Okay? So these are all things to actually get to the specifics here. Because you want them explaining visceral situations, like stories or numbers.
2:01:27Okay? Like things, again, you could write down or paint with a brush. Right?
2:01:31You can't I have a dating issue. That doesn't mean anything. That's vague.
2:01:34You want to take the vague to the concrete. So weight loss. Walk me through a day of eating.
2:01:38You know, what did you have for breakfast? What did you have for lunch? Okay.
2:01:41What about yesterday? Breakfast, lunch. Did you weigh yourself this morning?
2:01:44How much did you weigh? Okay. Well, when was the last time you're weighing yourself?
2:01:47Why aren't you weighing yourself? What do you struggle with the most staying on track with healthy eating? Give me an example.
2:01:52Okay? With biz op. Okay.
2:01:55Well, what do you do for work right now? Do you like it? Oh, yeah.
2:01:58What don't you like about it? Oh, I don't like this. I don't like that.
2:02:01Okay. Well, and when's the last time that happened? Okay.
2:02:04And give me a specific example. And what's the worst part about that? Right?
2:02:07So there's a ton of examples you can ask with BizOp as well. So key patterns of the questions you ask is like, give me an example. When's the last time x happened?
2:02:17Walk me through some sort of version of day in the life. How does that show up for you specifically? Give me an example.
2:02:24What happened? You see you see the point. Right?
2:02:25Everything's going vague to specific. So then once we do the knee payoff question, we move to the transition and tie down. So it sounds something like this.
2:02:34Well, look. Awesome. And we can definitely help you get to x, y, and z goal.
2:02:39And in fact, we have clients just like you, like John in your industry, who does what John does, doing x around x, y, z revenue, what John does, and tons more. And I can actually send you a few examples in a moment. But look, independent, if you work with us or not, let me pair you up with one of our advisors, Sam.
2:02:55He can share with you more about the frameworks and the methods that clients like John, who are in your industry, have used to hit whatever goal that the prospect told you, and in fact, way beyond that.
2:03:08So I have John's count or I have Sam's calendar open now. Is x or y time better for you guys to chat? Okay.
2:03:15Awesome. And to be clear, you're a 100% be able to make that time, or is there any chance you have to reschedule? Okay.
2:03:20And what's your best email? Okay. Great.
2:03:22I sent you an email for that time. Can you log in and accept it right now? I just wanna make sure that you actually have the email and everything's located, and you actually have the Zoom link in your call.
2:03:31Otherwise, there's might be a confusion at the call. Okay. Great.
2:03:34And you can see the Zoom link in the description. Okay. Perfect.
2:03:36And it's added to your calendar. Okay. Perfect.
2:03:38Right? So that's the tie down. That's pretty straightforward.
2:03:42There's a few things I'm doing there. I think they're pretty obvious, like, terms of the tie downs. I don't need to explain the psychology of tie downs and do blah blah blah blah.
2:03:50You know, I use the will you language again, but just do this. Okay? This was a little clunky when I explained it because, like, you ideally gonna kind of see the case study in here.
2:03:59Alright. Then we move on to the qualifying. So sometimes we don't even do this, but sometimes we do.
2:04:05So like in some offers, typically B2B, we we don't really need to do qualifying after the fact because like, as we talk about their business and their lead flow and their revenue, um, these things essentially, like, we can kind of tell if they're qualified or not.
2:04:21So most of the time, we, like, lightly and indirectly qualify them in discovery. But in certain offers, like, you have to qualify for whatever reason, or, like, maybe you went through discovery and you're like, you know, this person just might not be that qualified.
2:04:35Then what I do is I qualify them at the end after they're already booked. Okay? Because a lot of times, if you hard qualify in the discovery, what happens is is you derail the call because the prospects kind of got this resistance open.
2:04:48And if you project onto them that you don't think they're qualified for this, they're just gonna, like, buy right into your frame that, oh, I guess I'm not qualified for this. Oh, I, you know, I knew this was gonna cost a lot of money, and then they just disqualify themselves.
2:05:00And then you tell yourself, oh, yeah. They were disqualified. No.
2:05:03It's just like you created a self fulfilling prophecy. So the way you wanna do it around that is just keep the discovery clean, and then just do any hard qualifying at the end. And so how I do that is to say, oh, and by the way, Sam has me fill out a short form for anybody I put on his calendar.
2:05:17I'll do most of it myself based on our conversation, but can you give me, like, one or two minutes just to help me out with, like, two or three questions so you can ask and hit the ground running? Okay. And I didn't ask this, but, like, how long have been following closer.ao or Cole Gordon, or do you just find out about us?
2:05:29Okay. Great. Thanks.
2:05:30And your leadership structure is x y z. Right? You have a partner, fifty fifty, whatever.
2:05:34And your goal was $100 a month. Okay. Great.
2:05:37And last question, on a scale of one to ten, one being like, things are really, really tight right now, and 10 being like, you have the resources to do just basically whatever you want, where do you feel like you're at right now financially? And if they're like, probably like a five.
2:05:50Okay. And just to be clear, like, what does a five mean to you specifically? Alright.
2:05:55So that's how I would do it. Long story short, what I did here is two of these questions basically don't matter. Two of them matter.
2:06:02I just kinda you know, I don't wanna I don't wanna be like, hey, the short form, and then just hit them with, one mega question. Okay? So key points here is most setters, they overdo qualification because the closers yell at them, and no one is managing them to tell them any different.
2:06:16Right? So this is, like, very common. Never have your really even your closure manager manage the setters.
2:06:22I like to have a separate setter manager because when your closure manager manages them or the closure start managing them, they just become like the closure's assistant, and then the closure's telling them, basically, only set me people who are ready to show up with an Amex. You know?
2:06:36Like, that's not what they're saying exactly, but they might as well be. And so overqualification, which happens all the time when you let stuff happen like that, leads to lower show rate and lower lead per set.
2:06:48And because a lot of times, people don't show up because it puts too much buying pressure on the on the prospect. Like, when they're overqualified on an initial call, it really sets this tone in this frame of, like, this has to be a come to the call come to the call with a decision, come come to the call ready to buy type of thing, which is not really what the call is for.
2:07:08The closer is supposed to get them to buy. The setter's not supposed to do the closer's job. Okay?
2:07:13So ideally, like, you wanna qualify, like I mentioned previously, covertly in discovery.
2:07:19Right? So, like, for b to c, you ask about occupation. You ask about how much money they'd have to make just to replace the amount of income full time for, like, b to c offers.
2:07:29That's a that's a clever one. And then, you know, assessing the quality of their business for b to b, like revenue and profit and all these things. And then if you need to qualify harder because you're a little unsure, you just do that at the very end in the example that I gave.
2:07:41Okay? Um, so I already mentioned this, but, again, if you qualify too hard, especially financially in the discovery, it can just derail the entire thing, create a freaking, you know, self fulfilling prophecy, and so on and so forth.
2:07:53Okay. And then to end the call, what you do is you say, okay. Great.
2:07:56I'll send that all over. One last thing. I also just short I also just shot you over via text or via email a short video to watch prior to the call.
2:08:03Did you get it? Okay. Hey.
2:08:05And will you watch that before the call? It'll really help you when Sam hit the ground running. Okay.
2:08:10Great. And any questions in the call about Sam tomorrow? Okay.
2:08:12Perfect. I'll put you in a group chat with him now in case anything comes up. Bye.
2:08:15You know, there you go. So that's how you end the call. So you get this last little commitment that they're gonna watch the pre call video.
2:08:20If you don't know what that is, separate training and SDA. So now we're going to walk through adjustments.
2:08:26So this is an adjustment for the triage call. So again, this is for direct bookings, two great apps, prospects who book through the Sutter link via text and email, and so on and so forth.
2:08:37So this is like if we're moving the appointment, or I was texting them, and they showed up on my Zoom link, and it's a set appointment for the setter. Okay? So really, 90% of the call is the same.
2:08:47All right? We just got to have a little rapport and frame the call. So, like, they're gonna show up on Zoom, and it's like, John, John, good to see you.
2:08:54Hey, is is that x, y, and z in your background? Right? Because what I what I try to do is be in the moment, maybe notice something in their background.
2:09:03Maybe they're there at the airport. Maybe they have this crazy, you know, freaking, like, thing in their background and make a comment on it, or they got dude has an insane beard. I'm like, dude, growing a beard like that is, like, my life goal.
2:09:13Like, I you know, I got the peach fuzz here. Whenever I can do that, I'm gonna do it. Okay?
2:09:18So I'm not going to force that, but that's a good way to sort of break their pattern during rapport. It's just like with a quick one liner about something you notice about them, but don't force it and be weird. Okay?
2:09:28And it'll be like, okay. Well, anyways, how's the week been? Oh, it's busy.
2:09:30Been Oh, is that a good busy or a bad busy? Oh, it's a good busy. We've got this going on.
2:09:33Okay, great. Hey, well, let's dive in. Do have a piece of paper or something to take notes with?
2:09:37Okay? Now, I only ask this if it's a phone triage, the piece of paper notes with thing.
2:09:45And I obviously don't ask that as well if it's an outbound call. But the reason I do that is just to get an idea if they're driving, or if they're on the road, or where the hell they're at.
2:09:55Like, if I'm giving them a call for a set appointment, obviously an outbound call, I'm not going to do that. But for a set appointment, if I'm giving them a call, I just want know where they are. Okay?
2:10:04And so the little clever trick to know where they are is, let's dive in. Do you have a clean sheet of paper or something to take notes with?
2:10:11All right? Lets me know. Are they driving?
2:10:14Whatever. I don't end the call. It's a it's a triage call.
2:10:17Okay? I don't end the call if they're driving or whatever. So then I move on to frame.
2:10:21So I'll say, got it. So look, I know you originally responded to the ad about getting some new salespeople in your business, and I'm more than prepared to dive into all of that, give you some information, give you about what we offer, all of that stuff. But since what we do is a little bit customized, what's probably going to make the most sense is for me to get a little bit of context on your business first, like how your offer works, how your lead generation is working right now, and kind of the system, the acquisition process that your business is running.
2:10:45And then based on that, I'll just share with you the parts about what we do that'd be relevant and useful for you specifically, which will save you a lot of time. Does it make sense? Okay.
2:10:54Cool. So I know, again, like, were reaching out about getting some salespeople in your business, and you obviously want the information about that. But, like, what's happening in your business right now that potentially has you looking and bringing some new guys on?
2:11:06Okay? So, again, I already explained the psychology here about taking away any potential objections, aligning the goals, yada yada. So I'm not gonna go through that again, but I'm doing that again here.
2:11:17So let's move on to the buyer lead adjustment. So this would be an outbound call. Again, this is for only outbound calling buyer leads.
2:11:24If you're doing an implementation call, training is right here, which I accidentally clicked on. So the introduction of this would be John John, just Cole here from closer.ao.
2:11:35I'm just calling about the unlimited leads program that you purchased for $27. I think it was a few hours ago. Hey.
2:11:40So included in your purchase is an onboarding call that every new member gets. And really, the purpose of it is to give you a specific road map so you know it exactly every single different level of revenue, what lead generation model that we should have you implement in your business now based on your business revenue level, all that stuff since there's a lot.
2:11:58So and plus, Cole wanted us to make sure he gave you an additional training from a higher end program after the call depending on whatever you need help with. So are you available to have that call right now, or do you want me to put something in the calendar? It's only gonna take fifteen minutes.
2:12:11Okay. So then they express mom, whatever they respond. Great.
2:12:14In order for me to give you the right implementation pathway, let me get some context, you know, best place to start, what's happening that made you purchase the thing. Okay?
2:12:22So that's basically it. So now after that, what I will say for buyers is the transition is different.
2:12:30Like, the the discovery is the same, but well, Discovery is even a little bit different too. But how you run the rest of this for buyers is different because they bought something and you need to sort of separate that so that they get them interested in a higher ticket thing.
2:12:45So you'd wanna go to this link to figure out how to do that. Okay? So then we have a revised script for calling no shows.
2:12:51So, John, John Jaschol here from close.io. Hey. You originally scheduled an appointment with us at x y z date and x y z time.
2:12:57Ring a bell. So we have it in our system that that call didn't happen. And, you know, it could have been an issue with our system or maybe somebody mixed up the time, and that's totally fine too.
2:13:06I just wanted to reach out and see what prompted you to book a call in the first place. And if it makes sense, just potentially reschedule a new conversation. Cool?
2:13:15And so then I just go, what prompted you to book a call in the first place? And so you might wanna adjust this too. Like, you could say, hey.
2:13:21You know, there could have been an issue, or somebody might have mixed up the time. Either way, no worries.
2:13:26Do you happen to know what happened? Oh, you just forgot. Hey.
2:13:29No problem. Just wanted to reach out and see if we could get you rebooked and see if that would make sense.
2:13:33But before we do that, I'm curious. You know, what how'd you book a call in the first place? Okay.
2:13:37So short combo. This one, you don't need to go way back into discovery. I would just kinda touch on it lightly, especially if it was an ads call.
2:13:45If it's if it's re if it's a setter call that no showed and the setter's already talked to that person, I mean, it's gonna be pretty simple. You're just gonna give them a call and be like, hey.
2:13:53What happened? Okay. Let's get you back on.
2:13:54If it's an as call, you may wanna just requalify them a little bit because they have never spoken to somebody, and they might not be qualified. Just because they came from as it was direct booking doesn't mean they're qualified. So then this is the revised script for pipeline setting.
2:14:06Again, this is the old leads. So if it's, like, less than so here's the thing.
2:14:12If it's like less than seven days or even like eight or nine days, you could just stick with the original script. But once it gets to like an older lead, like thirty, sixty days, especially, you're gonna wanna use this.
2:14:25Okay? So, John hey, John. It's Cole here from closers.io.
2:14:29About two months ago, you reached out to the company, you know, our company, closers.io, and it was about an ad that was a potential about getting some setters or closers in your business. Did you ever talk to our team about that offer and get the information you were looking for?
2:14:44Or are you still looking? Okay. They're gonna say, I'm still looking, or they're gonna say no.
2:14:48Okay. And so that's pretty much it.
2:14:51You just say that. And then after they say, oh, I'm still looking, or no, nobody reached out to me, hey, great. No problem.
2:14:57Let me get an idea of your business, then I can get you over some information. So first, like, what was happening in your business originally that really prompted you to reach out and look into getting some setters?
2:15:08Right? So that's how that would work. Now, when closers take setting calls, I do want to just mention this.
2:15:15Big general mistake. So closers, you always need to think about the closer needs to reconnect and, like, connect the dots from where the prospect last came from. So closers always need a reference at the beginning of the call when they're starting in.
2:15:28They're, like, setting the frame and all that stuff that they understand the context of what led the prospect to them. They reviewed any information that the prospect's already given them, and that this won't be repetitive. Okay?
2:15:39Because, like, a lot of times from a prospect standpoint, if they spent, let's say, thirty minutes with a setter, and then, like, you don't really acknowledge anything that they talked about in that conversation, and you dive in and your first initial questions are the same, they're like, what's this company doing? Like, I already gave them this information.
2:15:54So you have to kind of, like, set the frame properly, and it's gonna sound something like this. So, hey, you know, before we get started, I just got done reviewing John's notes about the call you had earlier.
2:16:05And I'm just curious, like, how was that call? Oh, it was good. John's really smart.
2:16:08Whatever. I learned some new things. Okay.
2:16:09Perfect. Well, just so I understand, you're in the plumbing business. You're doing about $3,000,000 a year, and you're looking for some more field technicians because you have a decent amount of lead flow and the truck capacity to fill it.
2:16:20Right? Okay. And I also understand that you're looking for people who can increase turnover and actually be selling field techs and ultimately generate more leads for replacement revenue and your higher ticket stuff.
2:16:30Right? So with all that being said, what I really found works best in these calls, so I can make sure, uh, I don't assume anything and I a 100% under understand your situation, It's like, know everything that so and so said or told me from the last call, but I kinda just really wanna wipe the slate clean and really hear it from you just to make sure we're not playing telephone.
2:16:48Okay? And so then that way, nothing's taken out of context. There's nothing lost in communication.
2:16:52Makes sense? So the best place to start is, you know, I know you're looking for more field technicians and was hoping we would recruit from that, but tell me a little bit more about what's going on in the business now that has you looking for one now, though. Like, what's happening?
2:17:04Okay? So I kinda was a little redundant there. I've been recording for three hours, but you get the point.
2:17:10Okay? You need to just reference what they actually said. Reference the, hey.
2:17:14I talked to this person. If you as long as you do that and then you use the wipe to slate clean, I wanna make sure nothing gets lost in communication, They're gonna be fine.
2:17:21Okay? So now we're gonna move on to setter troubleshooting and common mistakes. So the first one is no baseline.
2:17:28What does that mean? So a lot of entrepreneurs, when they're hiring their first closer, they find it easier in terms of success rate than their first setter.
2:17:36Okay? Despite, closers are like you know, it's harder to be a closer. It's higher skilled.
2:17:41So why do people have a harder time hiring their first setter than their first closer? Well, that's because with closing, there's usually always a baseline set before the person hires.
2:17:50Right? Because the founder was closing themselves. There's proven call recordings, proven processes, and the entrepreneur has actually done the role.
2:17:56With setting, a lot of times, it does not happen. And as a result, I hear a lot, my setters aren't performing, I can't figure out why. Is it a lead quality?
2:18:03Is it the answer aid? Is it the setter skill? I have no idea because I have no idea what good looks like.
2:18:08Okay? So the easiest thing to do is simply just set for like a day.
2:18:16Okay? I put one to two days. You might figure out all your problems in, like, three hours.
2:18:21Okay? But just be a setter for one day or two days, and you're probably not even gonna do that. It'll probably be obvious in, three hours.
2:18:27Okay? I prescribe this many times in this situation of, like, people who are like, I don't know. My setters aren't performing.
2:18:33I don't know why. And, usually, 99% of the time, about four hours in, you have all the information you need. You're like, oh, yeah.
2:18:40Like, I get it now. Like, I was not even training my setters the right way. Or, oh my gosh.
2:18:44Like, we had discovery toll totally wrong. You totally need to pitch it and position the call with the closer in this way, or you need to dig into this pain, and we weren't doing that. Or sometimes even it's rare, but sometimes you're even like, man, like, I could not get anybody to answer.
2:18:59I could, like you know, these leads are really bad. I didn't realize how bad these leads were. That can happen too.
2:19:04It's not as common. It's usually like your setters just suck. But you had no idea what good looks like and what the right process should be because you've never done it.
2:19:10And look, you can find out like, lot of people are like, oh my gosh, you're asking me to get back on the phone? Dude, I'm asking for, like, a day to basically find out all the systems and processes in terms of your scripting that'll really build you.
2:19:22It's like building an asset. Okay? So the call recordings you gain from doing this act as assets that you can use to train your team in the future.
2:19:31Also, the knowledge you gain from it is an asset that allows you to train in in QC and all that stuff for the team in the future. So, you know, don't bitch about having to do it for a couple of hours. Get over yourself.
2:19:42It's gonna work. Okay? Now the other big mistake is that setters get no love.
2:19:47Okay? So 99% of companies in this industry do not give their setters enough attention.
2:19:52I've even made this mistake many times. And so you'll see this happen that they'll combine the sales meeting with the closers, and then on that meeting, focus on the closers.
2:20:01So, like, you have the setters and the closers in the same meeting, and then everybody's focusing on the closers on that meeting. Okay? Or they'll dish setter management to a setter lead who's like a player coach, and inevitably, because they're a player coach, they're doing a bad job.
2:20:15And partly, that's because they're a player coach, and, like, their performance is how they're paid, not actually coaching. And then the other reason is they're usually just not even a good manager. Okay?
2:20:24The other thing that happens a lot is having their sales manager hire their setters. A lot of times, good closer managers are not good setter managers, and a lot of times they're really bad because they're so biased to the closing or to the closers.
2:20:37And sometimes, like, the closer manager has never done any real setting. They don't know the process, all that stuff. So either just hire a separate setter manager, or you do have to take your closure manager and have them start setting for an actual week to really learn what the setters are going through and get the process down.
2:20:54Because otherwise, you know and you gotta watch what they're doing, because they'll just start to buy into the closers frame, and then they're telling the setters to only set people who can show up with an Amex ready to buy right now, to overqualify, then your show rates are down.
2:21:06It's just a mess. Okay? So I just like to have a setter manager, and then those two people report to me, Okay?
2:21:11Or report to my sales director. I mean, I have to be candid in my own company, my sales director does both.
2:21:19But he had managed several setting teams before he was a closer manager. So he sees both perspectives quite well, but that's quite rare. So ideally, you'd have a setter manager, a separate closer manager, a separate setter manager.
2:21:32That's a typo. And then you would treat the time and attention and training you give to your setters the same as your closers.
2:21:40That means they have to have a separate meeting. Okay? That means the same amount of call reviews you give to a closer, you need to give to a setter throughout the week.
2:21:47Okay? So all the stuff that I have in terms of how to manage your salespeople that's in all in the sales management training, just apply that to your setters as well. Okay?
2:21:56Now there's some exceptions. Like, you have one setter and one closer, you could just combine the meeting.
2:22:01It's like not that big of a deal. If you have two and two, you can probably just combine the meeting.
2:22:05Just make sure you separate the like, you you balance out the training and you train both on the meeting. A lot of times, like, don't tell your closer to train your setter.
2:22:14Worst idea ever. Okay? Next common mistake is lack of lead flow.
2:22:20So I already mentioned this before, but 50% of the time, the setters aren't performing. I usually especially in beginner level companies, not as much in the top level. I usually figure out that literally they don't have enough leads.
2:22:30It's like they need 800 leads per month, they have 200. Okay? So start with the initial benchmarks that I gave.
2:22:34It's very, very common. Next thing is the rule of two. Okay?
2:22:38So always hire two if you have the leads for it. So this is mainly for your first hire. I mean, you can apply this logic at scale, and it might not be two, it might be three, it might be four, or whatever.
2:22:48But where I really recommend this is like your first hire. Because when you're making your first hire, whether it's a setter, whether it's a closer, the problem is you usually don't know what good is.
2:22:57And so what happens is, is if they underperform, you're not sure if it's your training, your management.
2:23:03You're not sure if it's a talent and you made a mishire, and you're not sure if it's the leads. So if you hire two, it's much easier to tell because the human brain kind of understand understands things through comparison.
2:23:14And also, it kind of adds this competitive feel that tends to help they're competing against each other. And you can group train them simultaneously, so it doesn't take you as much time.
2:23:22Okay? But the caveat is that for this to work, you have to have enough leads for two people.
2:23:28Okay? So, like, that sounds like common sense, but you can't expect this to work if you don't have enough leads for them.
2:23:35Okay? And then also, that might you know, that's gonna mean you might need to increase leads temporarily and then cut back down if you only hire one.
2:23:43Or you increase leads temporarily, increase ad spend temporarily, and if both are good, you keep both. Okay? Another common mistake is no texting.
2:23:51So this is simple, but it comes up all the time. Like, I I don't know why, but I'm like, look, my setters aren't working. Do you text your leads?
2:23:58No. Okay. Well, like, 50% of our sets came through text.
2:24:01So text your leads. So we already covered that.
2:24:04Just make sure you do it. Same thing with speed to lead. You can mainly spot check this.
2:24:07There's obviously dollar.ao. There's other stuff that you can do. But there's tons of studies that show that leads are 10 to 25 times more responsive in the first five minutes.
2:24:15And again, like, if you think about it, it's a graph like this effectively to where you have an exponentially higher chance the sooner you call the person.
2:24:24Like, ideally, it's immediate, and then it's exponentially lower as time goes on. Okay?
2:24:30So the other one is not monitoring work times. We also talked about this as well.
2:24:35But any performance positions operate off the principles of diminishing returns.
2:24:41So you're going to understand in a second why this is so important. This is very advanced. So any performance position closer, setter, account manager who's doing upsells, whatever they operate off diminishing marginal returns.
2:24:54In other words, the effort required for the next additional set, okay, at the margin, they operate super linearly.
2:25:03Okay? So the additional effort required for each addition the effort required for each additional set at the margin operates super linearly. I know that doesn't make sense, but this graph makes sense.
2:25:12So this is what this this is think about this graph, and then here's what it shows. So every additional qualified set that the setter makes takes more time and energy to get than the previous one.
2:25:26Alright? So, like, here's how I want you to think about this. If you have a 100 units of time and energy in a single day, and let's say eight sets is the theoretical max, I know that's not realistic, but let's say eight sets is the theoretical max of what's possible.
2:25:41Right? Like, the getting eight sets is gonna take all a 100 units of your time. Based on this graph, what this shows, which is kinda hard to see, by the way, because I didn't think this would be black and white.
2:25:52But based on what this graph shows, the last set alone is gonna take 30% of their entire effort and time of that day.
2:26:01Okay? That's this example. It's not hard science, but the framework and the way of thinking about it is true.
2:26:06The last two sets in this example takes 53% of your setters time and energy in the day.
2:26:14All right? And that's because every single additional set at the margin has a diminishing marginal return.
2:26:21Right? It operates super linearly. It's much more harder to get the next additional set.
2:26:25It's very easy to get one set. It's hard to get eight sets. And going from set set seven to set eight is exponentially more effort than set six to seven.
2:26:34Hopefully, that makes sense. You're gonna see why this is so important. Because oftentimes, setters will hit, like, five to six sets in a day.
2:26:42And, you know, most teams, that's pretty good. Right? But oftentimes, what you don't understand because your setters are working remote is to hit that five to six sets in a day, they're actually only working, like, four to five hours a day.
2:26:54Okay? So you have to monitor working time. This is why it's so important.
2:26:57And the thing is is they actually worked a full eight hour day. They're not gonna hit double the sets. But what they might do is hit two more sets.
2:27:07Right? Because again, those additional sets at the margin take way more effort. So if they double their working time, they might only get two more sets.
2:27:15So in their brain, they're like, oh, it's not worth it. You know, the marginal cost exceeds the marginal benefit. But for you, it's worth it.
2:27:23Because you're like, dude, I'm paying you. I'm hiring you to work all day. Like, a normal work day, dude.
2:27:27But they don't do it unless you monitor it. That's why you got to monitor it. Okay?
2:27:31So again, for them, working literally twice the time for two more sets, it's not a great return on investment. So a lot of times they don't do it.
2:27:39But this is why it's important. Let's say you have a team of six setters. If they all get two extra sets a day, because now they're working full days opposed to half days, even though you didn't know they were working half days, that's what they were doing, that's 12 extra sets per day, which is two extra full closers calendars and 264 extra appointments in a twenty two working day month.
2:28:00It's a massive improvement. And, I mean, two calendars could be, in some in some companies, a $100 a month in spend less you have to spend. Isn't that crazy?
2:28:09Okay? This is huge. So how do you make sure they're working full days?
2:28:13Again, you have to have a system that monitors working time, unless you have an office. Right? So again, dollar dot a o or dollar less is what I would use.
2:28:21And also, you can incentivize a small bonus for extra sets. So you can have because again, it's like marginal cost exceeds marginal benefit for them and their brain as time goes up and they get to set six, seven, eight, nine, 10. So you could have, like, let's say, hey, if you get a bonus for your seventh set, eight set, nine set, and 10 set in a day, and it kinda goes up a little bit.
2:28:44Right? And so it would be a small bonus. It wouldn't be like crazy, but you'd be happy to pay it is how you gotta think about it if they were able to really hit that.
2:28:51So you can do that, or you can just monitor their working time and make sure they just actually work. That's fine too. So you could do a small bonus for those, like, higher numbers of sets.
2:28:59You could do a small bonus for people who make the most dials or work the longest in terms of working time. You could do a small bonus for the most sets for a setter in that one day, like the number one setter who has the most sets gets gets the bonus, etcetera.
2:29:14So the next one, common mistake, is underpaying your setters. So as a quick story, I was looking at my setter's performance one day.
2:29:22This was a year ago. And like many people, I was like, man, I wish my all my setters were as good as my best setter.
2:29:29And then I was like, dude, I run a sales recruiting company. Like, I think I think I should be able to probably do that. And so I asked myself, I was like, well, what would it really take to make sure every person on my team was as good as this one person?
2:29:40And all I thought about was like, oh, it's super easy. All I gotta do is I gotta increase the comp, and then hire closer level talent who want to ramp as a setter for six months. Now, that framing, hey, like, I'm gonna recruit you as a closer, but you're gonna start as a setter for six months, That can work for my company, because we have the brand.
2:29:57It can work for a company like acquisition.com. I wouldn't say, like, if you're hiring your first setter, it's probably not going to work for you. You're just going have to hire a setter.
2:30:04Okay? And you're just going to have to deal with it. But increasing the comp will work for everybody.
2:30:08And so what we did is we increased the comp by about 30%. You gotta realize that's way, way better talent, because that might only be taking somebody from 5 to like $8 a month or something. Doesn't like, 3 k a month might not seem like a lot to you.
2:30:22That gets you an entirely different trough of talent. And so we got way better talent by increasing the comp, and we also increased our expectations of who we were bringing on.
2:30:32And then we ended up turning over the entire sales or not sales team, but the entire setter team over the course of, like, the next three or four months. And as a result, we were able to get and we also added in the pipeline setters. We did that at the same time.
2:30:45And as a result, we were able to get $250 extra revenue per month because of the increased set volume, and we were able to cut $200 of ad spend or vice versa. You get the point.
2:30:55But we basically made $450 a month from that. Pretty cool. And so the lesson is increasing the pay.
2:31:01Doesn't mean a few grand doesn't mean like much to you. It gets you an entirely different trough of traffic, a trough of talent in the recruiting marketplace. A lot of people, just think about setters like VAs.
2:31:12They're like, oh, you're a setter. Like, you're just like a grunt. You have no skill.
2:31:17Don't hire a setter. Hire a salesperson. Okay?
2:31:21You see how that feels different? Like, hire an actually good salesperson. And I'm telling you, they're gonna pay for themselves.
2:31:27Like, it's gonna make a huge difference. So next common mistake, sending everyone to triage first. Just don't do it.
2:31:33We cover why it's dumb. If you don't remember, just go back up and watch that part about why it's dumb again. My setter show rate stinks.
2:31:40Okay? So what do do in this case? Well, in b two b, just to be clear, I would wanna see 80% show rates plus.
2:31:47We've had 95%, but 80% show rates plus. B to c, 70.
2:31:52And so it should always, almost always to be higher than your ad's show rate. If it's not, again, usually your setters aren't talented enough, or they're just not you're not training them very well. But usually, it's just talent.
2:32:03Right? They just stink. Okay?
2:32:05But a lot of times people, especially in their early phases of their setter team, you know, it's different if you're like, dude, I have a setter manager. We have six setters. It could be a talent thing.
2:32:13In the early phases, like, they have one or two setters, it's usually the managers just not training them enough, and usually it's talent too. So more specifically, if you want to get tactically on, like, diagnosing why setters usually have low show rates, is they don't sell the value of the call with a closer or making the prospect think differently.
2:32:31They're not giving the prospect an insight. They're not kind of interweaving that nice case study. They're not selling the value of how that call with the closer is going be awesome, and they're going get these insights.
2:32:39That's usually missing. The setter call usually isn't long enough, and it'll agitate enough pain. They usually miss, like, the tie downs, like we did in the script, or their tonality is just terrible.
2:32:49Right? They sound like a zombie. That happens a lot.
2:32:51And the person's like, yeah, I'll book the call to just get you to hang up. Okay? So a lot of that could be poor training, it could be poor talent.
2:32:58I would recommend looking inward at your training first, because a lot of times people under index their training on their setters by a lot. All right?
2:33:06Now, last thing we're going cover is how to compensate your setters. So I'm going to teach you how to think about compensation from the ground up, the same way I taught you about how to look at leads per setter per month from the ground up. So I'm going to teach you how to fish, then I'm going kind of like tell you what to do.
2:33:19All right. So when approaching comp for any position, the first thing you want to do is first look at established comps of on track earnings in your industry based on the position.
2:33:31Right? So on track earnings, what that is, is really a sales term for like how much an expected earnings can this person make if they hit KPIs, since the position is largely performance. And so, look, I mean, you should look up comps, but since I run a sales recruiting company, I'll just gonna tell you what the comps are.
2:33:47So the on track earnings for setters can range from 5 to 12 k a month. Now that might seem like a big range. So I'll break it down like this.
2:33:54Lower tier, low skilled setters entry level, 4 to $6. Mid tier, 6 to $9, which you can get some decent people in mid tier. Upper tier, 7 to 10.
2:34:02Elite level, 8 to 12. Like I pay just 8 to 12. Okay?
2:34:06So the lower you're going to pay, the more training you have to give, the higher churn you're probably gonna have, and the more it's gonna be kind of like, I gotta find some diamonds in the rough. Right? And it could also be fine to pay that low if, like, you're like, man, my leads are so good.
2:34:20Like, I just don't need that good of people. That's But I would still argue, even in that case, if you hire better people, you'd probably make more money. The higher you go and pay, less training you have to give.
2:34:28They're going churn less, ramp faster, perform better, easier to find too. Because you can even, like, good pay, I mean, 8 to 12 k a month is a setter.
2:34:38Like, that's more than some closers make and bad offers. And so you'll get some closer level people with setters, which is nice. And so here are some things to consider when you're deciding your on track earnings is you don't want total sales labor, which is your setter plus closer labor percentage, to exceed 15% of your front end gross margin.
2:35:04So even 15% is high. Right?
2:35:06Like, ideally, 13% is what I would call standard, because that would mean 3% for the setter, 10% for the closer. 11% would be elite.
2:35:14Right? But that's probably going to require a little bit of higher price and velocity, which is rare.
2:35:20What I mean by high price and velocity is like, you know, 15 k plus price points, but you're selling like them, like, your closers are still selling 15 to 30 units a month.
2:35:30Right? So there's a good velocity there, but the price is still high. Like, it doesn't do it doesn't do you much good if the price is high, but you sell like, you know, the sales cycle is like two months.
2:35:38You see what I mean? And then you also want to assess. So number one, you want to make sure that it fits within 15% front end gross margin, ideally 13%, 11% elite, when you combine setters and closers.
2:35:50See, this is very key. I want you to think about this so you don't set yourself up for failure, and you have terrible P and L two years from now.
2:35:57And so you also want to assess how hard the job actually is. I kind of already talked about this, but like, you know, I've worked with Dean and Tony.
2:36:03They have insanely good leads. I still recommend you probably make some more money with better setters, but they could get away with not having that good of setters. Okay?
2:36:12Now if you have more complex leads, like a raising money offer, you probably wanna invest in better setters. Okay? But the most important thing here is the P and L margin.
2:36:20Alright? So I'd on the side of being stingy, because you can always be the good guy later and give everybody a raise. Right?
2:36:26Like, you always make if you're gonna make a mistake, you might as well end up being the good guy and giving everybody a raise, opposed to making a mistake and like, oh, now you're the bad guy, I gotta give everybody a pay cut. It doesn't work.
2:36:37It causes a lot of churn. So how do you actually set this up? So in the beginning, what I like to do, this is me personally, I like to give these guys a four to six k a month draw.
2:36:47Okay? Four would be on the lower end of OTEs, six would be on the higher end. But you're going to pick a number.
2:36:52It's not 4 to 6 k a month. It's like five k a month draw, six k a month draw, whatever. And I that to them for sixty days.
2:37:00And then what I recommend doing is going 100% commission after that, and then back out a percentage that allows them to hit their on track earnings.
2:37:08Okay? So again, a draw is a guaranteed floor pay for a certain amount of time. So like, let's say in their first month to make 2.5 commission, and the draw is 5 ks, you've got to pay an extra 2.5.
2:37:19And then if they exceed and their commission's five k, they just get whatever their pay is. Now, you might be adverse to this, and you might be like, oh, you know, that's money out of pocket, whatever. But this helps massively with churn with ramps, or with reps as they're ramping.
2:37:33It also if you're hiring your first or second setter, it'll help massively with churn. Right? Because especially, like, they're not dumb.
2:37:39They they're like, hey. I'm the only setter on this offer. I don't even know if this is real.
2:37:43Right? This might not even be a real thing. It might not even be, hey, he said I could make $7.
2:37:47I don't even know that's possible. So the draw kind of like quells their fears for sixty days.
2:37:53And the thing is is like you're thinking like, oh, that's like a bunch of money out of pocket. I mean, look, if they stink, you're just gonna let them go. And then you prorate the draw anyways.
2:38:01So it's not as costly as you think. I mean, you're not gonna be out if they're not good, you're not gonna be out that much money. But it does help you recruit somebody better from the very beginning, because they know they're getting that guarantee.
2:38:11But they don't you know, you could just let them go in a week if they suck. So I'm going to break this down.
2:38:16So let's say my setters can hit 80 sets per month. Okay? And I know my closers convert at 25%.
2:38:23Right? That's 20 closes a month based on 80 divided by 25 is 20.
2:38:28Or sorry, yeah. 25% of 80 is 20. So let's say my price is 7,800.
2:38:34So then it's 156 ks in revenue. Right?
2:38:36That might be about 70 to 80 ks in upfront cash. So 20 closes, let's say I deem that, is exceptional performance.
2:38:45So that's gonna be the top end end range of my OTE. In other words, if a setter gets 20 set closes a month, that's like my top end range of my OTE, which is that's kinda like what I do.
2:38:56Okay? So let's say my top end range that I decided previously is gonna be 8 k.
2:39:02Right? Depending on the tier I wanted to pick. Okay?
2:39:05So then what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna pay 400 per closed set, which is 8,000 divided by 20. I got 400.
2:39:14All right? Okay. So I just backed out that number.
2:39:16And then what I want to do is before I commit to telling my setter that's the number, I want to check and see how this impacts my gross margin. All right? So 400 per close with a 7,800 price is 5.1% commission per sale.
2:39:28If my closers are at 10, I'm about the max I wanna pay. And what I might do in this scenario is I might consider leaning down the commission here or just going with it.
2:39:39Maybe I see if I can go a little bit lower. Maybe I see maybe I'm like, dude, I need to just raise my price, but then keep all of these things the same. Okay?
2:39:46Which brings me to another thing is, oftentimes, if you're operating below 10 k price points and you know in the future you're gonna raise the price, you haven't done it yet, give them flat rates and tell them, look, the price is going to go up. I want to get you paid more right now.
2:39:59So I'm kind of eating the cost to pay that to you. But long term, I want you at 12 k price earning 8% commission if it's a closer.
2:40:07Right? But I'm going to give you actually 10% on 78, but there's no one I raise the price. Okay?
2:40:14I'm not giving you a percentage raise. Right? Because I'm giving you an advance right now on your pay.
2:40:20Does that make sense? Okay. You have to you have to phrase it as you're giving them an advance on their pay.
2:40:25Because otherwise, they're gonna view that as a pay cut. It's more work. But what you're doing there is as your price goes up, you're kind of building in with your team and letting them know, hey, the price is gonna go up, your pay is not gonna go But I got to do that for the company margins.
2:40:36So I'm really giving you an advance on your pay right now because I want you to make at least blank. Okay? Now, for the setters, the reason I like 100% commission after a draw, if you do an initial 100% commission with no draw, it's much harder to get them to say yes.
2:40:51Okay? But a 100% commission after the draw, the reason I like that is you're gonna find out you you end up paying a similar amount in total team labor as the higher base plus lower commission.
2:41:03However, your best people get paid way more and your worst people don't. So it's better for your higher level people's retention. Okay?
2:41:09So that's why I like that. And in fact, in some cases, end up paying less. Because like the duds, like, you know, if you have people who are ramping who suck, you know, you either just cut them or they're not going earn as much because they're less base.
2:41:23So the other thing that you can do, we already mentioned this, is if you remember how I was talking about the increasing marginal cost of time to get additional production in terms of sets. So a way to incentivize a team to push harder is to increase the commission as they get closer to their target.
2:41:39So if, like, a 20 is exceptional, you could maybe have, like, 12 to 15 sets closed get a small bump, and then 15 to 20 sets closed get another bump. And so in this case, you'd have to lower the commission down a little bit as the baseline, and then you balance it out so at the end, you still get the 5%.
2:41:55Right? So you can play with the math a little bit, but that that makes them go harder into the month. Okay?
2:42:00The other thing is too is we always want to pay on set closed. So don't pay on sets, don't pay on shows, because you want to incentivize a high volume of quality sets.
2:42:10Right? And so that's the best proxy for sets closed. And so that said, we do and we'll talk about this in the management section.
2:42:16We do KPI them both on sets and set closed. Right? Because you have to KPI them on both, but that's more of a management conversation.
2:42:25For pay, it just simply sets closed. Okay?
2:42:28So common comp examples that I'll give you is the first one is a 4 to 6 k a month draw for sixty days, then three to 5% commission on closed set. That's kind of the one we already talked about.
2:42:39The other example that's totally fine is 3 to 4 k a month base, and then two to 4% commission per closed set. So some people do this. I like the above, but honestly, both work.
2:42:50And especially when you're just starting off and you're kinda like getting your business going and all that stuff at your first or second setter, sometimes the higher base and lower commission percentage is just a little bit easier. So those are like two foolproof ones that you can pretty much use, but just make sure they fit within your margins, and then you're getting the right OTE from your setters, which you can talk to your account managers about, and they'll just make they'll just tell you what to comp your setters.
2:43:14Okay? So, again, the formula, if you want a little graph here, kind of explains it here. And that's it for the training, guys.
2:43:19We'll see you in the next training.
The Hook
The bait, then the rug-pull.
Cole Gordon opens with the credential that frames the whole course — three eight-figure companies, over $75M of it from outbound setting teams, and 3,000+ sales teams consulted. Then he does something unusual for a guru: he narrows relentlessly, cutting SDR, BDR, and live-event models away until only the one system most viewers actually need is left standing, and spends two-plus hours making it concrete.
Named ideas worth stealing.
05:00concept
MDR vs SDR (the two outbound models)
- MDR = works warm inbound leads from marketing
- SDR = true cold outbound to a bought/built cold list
- Verdict: use MDR unless you only target $50-100M+ companies with a tiny TAM
The foundational fork. MDR capitalizes on inbound (paid, content, event, DM); SDR is cold outreach for an AE. 99.99% of online service businesses should run MDR — it's easier, needs no high base salary, and scales to 8 figures faster.
Steal fordeciding whether an outbound hire should work cold lists or your own inbound leads
18:00concept
Curated opportunity flow (the conveyor belt)
A setter only performs if fed a system that generates new leads daily, from the same source, under the same context, with a clear SOP to convert opportunity to a set. Dumping a setter in a Facebook group or your whole CRM to 'go farm' is NOT curated opportunity flow.
Steal forany role where you blame the person before checking whether you built them a real pipeline
31:40list
Leads-per-setter formula (4 steps)
- 1. Set the setter's target OTE (e.g. $10k/mo)
- 2. Start at the benchmark leads-per-setter
- 3. Add setters / cut leads-per-setter continuously
- 4. Measure team lead-to-set, cost-per-set; stop when top-25% OTE drops below target
Teach-a-man-to-fish method for staffing. Keep adding setters (lowering leads each) until your best people's pay would fall below the target OTE — that intersection is your right KPI.
Steal forsizing any commission role against a fixed lead/opportunity supply
39:10list
Common benchmarks (leads to sets)
- VSL call funnel w/ opt-in: 800-900 opt-ins → 80-110 sets
- PDF lead magnet funnel: 1,200-1,500 leads → 80-110 sets
- Direct-to-app (no opt-in): 400-500 apps → 80-110 sets
- Buyer funnel (no implementation call): 400-500 buyers → 80-110 sets
Per-setter-per-month starting points until you know your own metrics. Every funnel converges on 80-110 sets as the practical ceiling of one work week.
Steal forknowing when you actually have enough volume to hire the next setter
1:06:40model
Dialing algorithm: recency + frequency + value + peak call time
- Recency: how new the lead is (newer = more dials)
- Frequency: how many times contacted (day-dependent)
- Value: any data that makes a lead worth more (app > opt-in, high AOV, credit score)
- Peak call time: dial the extra attempts during statistically best answer hours
The heart of the training. Instead of forcing a rigid 14-day cadence, prioritize a live hierarchy of lead buckets from most to least valuable and always work the top first. Cole calls this the single most important thing in the video.
Steal forany high-volume outbound dialing operation
1:10:00list
Highest-to-lowest value lead buckets
- 1. Leads who just texted back (call immediately, then text)
- 2. New apps / partial apps, no booking
- 3. New opt-ins
- 4. Recent email opens
- 5. Today's no-shows
- 6. Today's new leads, 2nd/3rd dials at peak
- 7. Day 2, 3, 4, 5 old leads, then cut off
The concrete priority order a setter works down, constantly looping back to the top as new hot leads populate. This is what the dialer automates.
Steal forwriting the daily workflow doc for a setter or SDR
1:39:20concept
Two types of setter calls
- Outbound call: you dial, they pick up cold, you engage into discovery, pitch the closer call, qualify, tie down
- Triage call: appointment already booked, so open with rapport + frame like a closer, then same discovery onward
Every variation (buyer, no-show, pipeline, implementation) is a modification of these two. The outbound call literally contains a triage call inside it.
Steal forstructuring any two-step sell where a setter hands to a closer
1:41:40list
Outbound call flow
- Introduction: hook + agreement to move to discovery (take away the 'I just want info' objection first)
- Discovery: why here → background → isolate problem → chunk down → need-payoff
- Transition & tie-down: affirm you can help, name a like-them case study, pitch the closer call, lock the time, make them accept the invite
- Qualify (optional, after booking)
- End: commit them to watch the pre-call video
The full setter script skeleton. Tonality matters more than the exact words — most setters score zero on tonality, so sounding like an intelligent, positive human gets you 90% of the way.
Steal forany appointment-setting or triage script
1:50:00concept
Chunking down (vague to specific)
Turn a vague complaint into a concrete number or story you can 'paint with a brush.' 'I need more leads' becomes 'one listing appointment in 30 days' — which surfaces the real pain and shifts the whole tone of the call.
Steal forany discovery or diagnostic conversation
2:21:40model
Diminishing marginal returns on sets
Every additional set costs super-linearly more time and energy. In the example the last set eats 30% of the day and the last two eat 53%. This is why setters coast at 5-6 sets in half a day — and why you must monitor working time, not just outcomes.
Steal forunderstanding why any performance rep plateaus and needs a small top-end bonus
2:31:40list
Setter compensation model
- Set OTE from tier (entry $4-6k, mid $6-9k, upper $7-10k, elite $8-12k)
- Keep setter+closer labor under 15% of front-end GM (13% standard, 11% elite)
- Back out per-closed-set commission from top-end OTE (e.g. $8k / 20 closes = $400/set)
- Pay a 60-day draw, then 100% commission
- Always pay on closed sets, never on sets or shows
Two foolproof templates: (a) $4-6k draw for 60 days then 3-5% per closed set, or (b) $3-4k base then 2-4% per closed set. Err stingy so you can later be the good guy who gives a raise.
Steal fordesigning a commission plan for any closing or setting role
How they asked for the click.
VERBAL ASK
33:00product
“There's a link in the description that'll say Cole one-on-one that you can go book... we'll also be opening up our entire playbooks of my $36,000,000 a year company.”
Mid-roll native ad breaks are woven in (SDA doc, Cole 1-on-1, dialer.io, Scotland event) but each is tied to the exact topic being taught, so they read as resources rather than interruptions.
MENTIONED ON CAMERA
Visual structure at a glance.
