Modern Creator
Why Modern Creator?
Cole Gordon · YouTube

$150 Million of Sales Knowledge in 82 Minutes

An 82-minute practitioner masterclass on high-ticket sales — from belief-transfer mechanics to building and managing a team that closes without you.

Posted
yesterday
Duration
Format
Interview
educational
Views
616
35 likes
Big Idea

The argument in one line.

At least 80% of every high-ticket sales call should be spent selling the prospect on the plan, not the product — because once belief in the plan is locked in with explicit agreement, the close becomes a logistics conversation, not a persuasion battle.

Who This Is For

Read if. Skip if.

READ IF YOU ARE…
  • A founder doing high-ticket sales personally who wants a repeatable framework before handing the role to a rep.
  • A sales manager or team lead who wants field-tested daily routines — call QC, manager callbacks, morning meetings — not theory.
  • A sales rep earning $100-200K/year who wants to understand specifically what $400-500K reps do differently.
  • Anyone building a coaching, consulting, or services sales team in the transactional high-ticket space (one- or two-call close).
SKIP IF…
  • You work in B2B enterprise or SaaS with multi-month sales cycles — the frameworks here assume 30-day-or-less closes.
  • You want a motivational reset on sales identity; this goes directly into mechanics and assumes you already believe selling is worthwhile.
TL;DR

The full version, fast.

Objections at the close are a diagnostic signal — they mean belief was never built. Cole Gordon's pre-pitch framework, inserted between discovery and the pitch, dismantles the prospect's existing assumptions and replaces them with the beliefs required for your offer to feel obvious. Once locked with explicit agreement stacks, the close becomes logistical: tie-down twice, get permission to discuss money, lay out the full financial picture, and make a trade. On the team side, specialization beats raw talent — the best reps ever hired were at KPI by day one — and raising pay 30% selects from a completely different recruiting pool while keeping the department budget flat.

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Voices

Who's talking.

00:00hostCole Gordon
00:22cohostPace Morby
Chapters

Where the time goes.

00:00 – 00:27

01 · Intro — $150M framing

Cole establishes credentials and sets up the conversation with Pace Morby.

00:27 – 01:28

02 · What most people get wrong

Discovery is overrated; the real failure point is the close — specifically, the lack of leadership at the moment of decision.

01:28 – 04:47

03 · Why closers win more

Holding prospects accountable to their own stated goals is the primary lever. Most reps stop before that moment.

04:47 – 06:37

04 · Reframing the real problem

Change what the prospect believes they need before you pitch. If you succeed, competing calls become irrelevant.

06:37 – 10:18

05 · The Pre-Pitch Framework

Insert a consulting phase between discovery and pitch. Every 45 seconds: make a point, check in, get agreement. Never drop the pitch as an anvil.

10:18 – 13:38

06 · Selling the plan first

Two sales in every call: belief in the plan (80% of effort), then the purchase. Russell Brunson's $30M Cardone stage sell is the canonical example.

13:38 – 18:11

07 · Overcoming fear objections

Most late-stage hesitation is fear of failure wearing logistics clothing. Name the nerves, normalize them, then pivot to identity.

18:11 – 21:07

08 · Most common weak-close objections

'Send me something' almost always means the prospect got lost during the pitch. The fix is more dialogue, not more information.

21:07 – 30:01

09 · Handling price

Strip money out twice, get permission, lay out full finances, make a trade. Payment plans are negotiating chips, not concessions.

30:01 – 38:44

10 · Why buyers need to feel they won

The real estate seller who got his asked price canceled the next day. Concession psychology: push past what they can do, then relieve the tension.

38:44 – 41:14

11 · Best books for sales growth

Ready, Fire, Aim; Inner Game of Tennis; Straight Line Leadership; Relentless; 177 Mental Toughness Habits.

41:14 – 46:26

12 · Habits of elite salespeople

The win-a-day practice: listen to your best close at 1.5x speed every morning. Stop reinventing lines that already work.

46:26 – 48:46

13 · Sales as a service

If you're not selling, you're not serving. Show reps the outcome of what their prospects went through.

48:46 – 1:00:00

14 · Building a sales team from scratch

Validate the sales process yourself first. Good reps need a winning system — 60-80 live calls per closer per month minimum.

1:00:00 – 1:03:00

15 · Compensation structure

Transactional (30 days) = 100% commission. Enterprise (9 months) = 70% base. Pay to the top of the market.

1:03:00 – 1:15:00

16 · What separates $100K from $500K reps

Specialized sales knowledge + industry acumen + mission buy-in + assertiveness (head stillness as observable signal).

1:15:00 – 1:22:48

17 · Sales management playbook

Daily intentional morning meeting. Game tape QC all day. Manager callbacks on blown deals. Be on the front lines like Napoleon.

Atomic Insights

Lines worth screenshotting.

  • Eighty percent of the effort on a high-ticket sales call should go to selling the prospect on the plan, not the product — once they believe the plan, buying is the obvious next step.
  • Discovery gets the facts; the pre-pitch is where you break down limiting beliefs and stack the agreements that make objections disappear before the pitch starts.
  • The best salespeople your company ever hired will ramp in a single day — if they take a month and a half, they're mid-tier at best.
  • Raising salesperson pay by 30% can 10x a team's output for the same budget, because it selects from a completely different pool of candidates.
  • Every unit of time spent recruiting saves ten units of time managing — hire better people and they build the systems themselves.
  • When a prospect goes vague at the close, it's almost never really about money — it's fear of failure showing up in disguise.
  • The fear objection sequence: strip money out, name the nerves explicitly, reframe nerves as a positive signal, then ask who they're going to be in this moment.
  • Never let a prospect feel they got the first price you quoted — buyers who feel they won on terms pay their second and third payments; buyers who feel taken advantage of don't.
  • The win-a-day practice: listen to a recording of your best close every morning at 1.5x speed. It locks in your baseline, prevents you from reinventing lines that already work, and resets your certainty after losing streaks.
  • Salespeople chase the yes, not the money — that's why they default to discounts and down-sells that cannibalize the main offer instead of holding through resistance.
  • The highest-leverage thing a sales manager can do is review game tape and call blown prospects directly — not build dashboards, not tweak the CRM.
  • Industry acumen beats raw selling talent: a world-class car sales veteran will often fail selling functional medicine because he can't speak the tribal language of that market.
  • When you present payment options, push first for a plan the prospect almost can't do — then concede to what they actually can — the relief of the concession makes them want to take it.
  • Sales as a service: if you genuinely like people and want to serve them, you have an obligation to get good at sales, because without it you can't move them forward.
  • A manager who jumps on live calls to help close earns their salary ten times over by turning near-misses into won deals.
  • Show salespeople what a great close looks like, not just what a bad one looks like — modeling excellence is more effective than criticism for changing behavior.
  • Good people build the systems around themselves; you don't need better processes, you need better people — then duplicate what they create.
  • The Adele principle: stop reinventing your best sales lines just because you're bored of them — the audience is always new.
Takeaway

Belief is the product you sell before the product.

WHAT TO LEARN

Every sales breakdown traced back to the same source: the close failed because belief was never built — and the pre-pitch is the system that fixes that upstream.

01What most people get wrong / Why closers win more
  • Discovery competence plateaus quickly; what separates high earners is the amount of leadership they show up with at the moment of decision.
  • Prospects genuinely want to be led — they want someone to challenge their contradictions, not validate their hesitation.
02Reframing the real problem / The Pre-Pitch Framework
  • If you can change what a prospect believes they need, every other appointment they have booked becomes irrelevant.
  • The pre-pitch is a consulting format: make a point, check in every 45 seconds, get explicit agreement before moving to the next belief.
03Selling the plan first
  • Two sales happen in every call: belief in the plan (80% of effort) and then the purchase — most reps invert this ratio.
  • The central marketing thesis applies directly to sales: find the one domino belief that, if held, makes buying the obvious next move.
04Overcoming fear objections
  • Fear of failure shows up as logistics — 'I need to think about it' — not as fear; treating it as logistics makes it worse.
  • Naming nerves explicitly and normalizing them is more effective than trying to eliminate them.
05Handling price
  • Stripping money out of the conversation twice before touching numbers changes the frame from negotiation to problem-solving.
  • Payment plans are trading chips, not accommodations — push past what they can do first, then concede; the concession creates the psychological win they need to commit.
06Why buyers need to feel they won
  • A buyer who gets the first price offered cancels; the psychological arc of negotiation is what makes them feel loyal enough to make every future payment.
  • Salespeople default to the path of least resistance because they're chasing a yes, not a dollar — removing down-sell options forces them to hold through resistance.
07Habits of elite salespeople
  • Listening to a recording of your best close every morning at 1.5x speed maintains baseline certainty and prevents drift.
  • Reviewing your own calls reveals what you missed in real time even on calls you closed; the gap between what the prospect said and what you heard narrows with repetition.
08Building a sales team / Compensation structure
  • Validate the sales process yourself before hiring a rep — good salespeople want to step into a winning system, not prove one.
  • Pay structure should track sales cycle length: 30-day transactional closes favor 100% commission; 9-month enterprise cycles require heavy base.
09What separates $100K from $500K reps
  • Specialized knowledge in the exact close type beats general sales talent.
  • Industry acumen — speaking the tribal language of the specific market — is the second screen and most overlooked hiring criterion.
  • High-status observable signal: confident people keep their heads relatively still when they speak — this is now a screening criterion for assertive reps.
10Sales management playbook
  • The highest-leverage manager activity is reviewing game tape all day and calling blown prospects directly.
  • A daily intentional morning meeting where every attendee leaves better than they arrived is the single most important team ritual.
  • Showing the team what great looks like drives more performance change than breaking down what bad looks like.
Glossary

Terms worth knowing.

Pre-Pitch
A consulting-format phase inserted between discovery and the formal pitch where the salesperson dismantles the prospect's existing assumptions and builds new beliefs through agreement stacks, so the prospect arrives at the pitch already sold on the plan.
Tie Down
A micro-commitment question at the close that locks in a specific belief before moving to the next step — e.g., 'money aside, do you believe 100% this is going to work for you?'
Agreement Stack
A sequence of belief statements during the pre-pitch where the salesperson gets explicit buy-in at each step, creating a chain of commitments that makes the final close feel inevitable.
Transactional Sales
A sales environment where deals close in 30 days or less, typically one or two calls, as opposed to enterprise sales with multi-month cycles.
Industry Acumen
Deep familiarity with the language, norms, and pain points of a specific market — distinct from general sales skill and often the difference between a rep who closes instantly and one who never gains trust.
Manager Callback
A practice where a sales manager reviews a blown call, then contacts the prospect directly to add value and reset the relationship, which regularly reopens deals the rep closed badly.
Central Marketing Thesis
The one domino belief that, if the prospect holds it, makes buying the logical next move — borrowed from direct response marketing and described here as the core target of every pre-pitch.
Win a Day
A daily habit of listening to a recording of your own best close at 1.5x speed, designed to lock in certainty and prevent the drift toward reinventing lines that already work.
Resources

Things they pointed at.

38:56bookReady, Fire, Aim — Michael Masterson (Mark Ford)
39:15bookThe Inner Game of Tennis
39:16bookStraight Line Leadership
40:04bookRelentless — Tim Grover
40:46book177 Mental Toughness Habits of the World Class
1:04:50bookImpro (acting book, status chapter)
52:00productSaleskick ↗
52:01productDialogue.io
00:00productClosers.io ↗
Quotables

Lines you could clip.

11:15
“80% of the effort on the sales call is selling them on the plan — not the product.”
Complete reframe of what a sales call actually is — standalone, no setup needed→ TikTok hook↗ Tweet quote
46:33
“Every unit of time you spend recruiting saves ten units managing. Good people will create the systems around them. You don't need better systems. You need better people.”
Counterintuitive, quotable, actionable for any business owner→ IG reel cold open↗ Tweet quote
51:22
“I'm sorry. He goes, why would you be sorry? I'm here, I'm happy. I go, because we robbed you of three years of your life by not serving you better.”
Emotional reframe of bad selling as harm — stops the scroll→ TikTok hook↗ Tweet quote
1:14:13
“All they should be doing is reviewing game tape of all their reps all day, every day. It sucks. But it's the boring work that needs to be done.”
Counterintuitive management insight — managers avoid this exact thing→ newsletter pull-quote↗ Tweet quote
Topic Map

Where the conversation goes.

00:00 – 30:00denseSales process mechanics — pre-pitch, belief transfer, agreement stacks
21:07 – 38:44denseClosing — price handling, fear objections, payment plan trades
38:44 – 48:46steadyBooks and habits
48:46 – 1:15:00denseHiring, recruiting, and compensation
1:15:00 – 1:22:48denseSales management playbook
The Script

Word for word.

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00:00Throughout my career, the sales teams of the companies that I've owned have done well over a 150,000,000 in cash collected revenue. And now I run a $30,000,000 a year sales training recruiting company sharing a lot of the best practices of what's worked for me.
00:12So in this video, I sit down with Pace Morby and share with them how to recruit, hire, and train high performing sales teams, where to find the best reps, how to ramp them in the KPI,
00:21and also how to get better at sales, and how to objection handle the right way. So enjoy the video. Okay.
00:27So sales. You've helped me build my sales team. We have a team.
00:30Most of them are in house now. We have about 60 enrollment directors. Nice.
00:34And we wouldn't be here without you. Oh, thanks. Thank you.
00:37Yeah. What do you feel like people get wrong about sales? Like, when they're jumping into whether it's info or other things where they say, I'm not a salesperson.
00:44That's one of them for sure. Yeah. Two, I don't like sales.
00:47That's another big thing that you probably hear a lot. What are some things you hear from people that just get wrong about sales?
00:54Um, or things that infuriate you when people say stuff about sales? When people well, there's a lot of things that infuriate me in terms of what people do with selling. You know?
01:02Uh, I think number one so in transactional type of sales, um, we hear a lot about discovery.
01:11And, you know, you wanna go deep, do discovery, remove objections before the close. That's obviously a prerequisite of selling.
01:18Like, you have to do fact finding. You have to find out all these things on the front end. Otherwise, you're gonna deal with those objections at the back end.
01:24But most good salespeople, after about a couple weeks of ramping, they're pretty good at the discovery.
01:31And what I've really realized over the years is where we really fall down is the close, you know, and just holding people accountable. And I think that Meaning your prospects?
01:42Yes. People drastically underestimate, like, the amount of leadership you have to show up as Yeah.
01:49At the close. Now everything you do before that makes it a lot easier. So you wanna do everything before that well too.
01:55But at the end, um, I think a lot of people discount just, like, how important that leadership at the end is in holding people accountable. And it's like, hey.
02:03You told me earlier you wanted to be this type of person. Right? And this type of person does these types of things, but now you're saying you wanna do this.
02:10So, like, who do you wanna be ultimately? Because it's not gonna affect my life, by the way. But if you wanna be this type of person and do these behaviors, you're gonna get more of what?
02:19The same behaviors. Dude, I don't know what you're selling right now, but you got me wanting to buy. Yeah.
02:22Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
02:23So holding people accountable, leading I mean, people genuinely
02:26wanna be led.
02:28Right? And people wanna be bought. They wanna buy things they don't wanna be sold.
02:31Well, they wanna be they wanna buy things from people who challenge them to think different. So, you know, a lot of times, if you have a sales call we had this this morning because I still attend all the meetings.
02:42I'm not even the manager. I just attend the meetings because of what I do. So I'm like, I'm just gonna you know, if I'm available like, some days, I'm I can't do it.
02:48I'm not available so the manager does it. But if I'm available, I'm coming to the meeting because I I it's it's fun. Like, I enjoy it.
02:54I actually feel better about my business when I'm doing a little sales training every single day. But, uh, today, you know, there was an objection. The person wanted to talk to two other people to make a final decision.
03:03Right? But here's the thing. Two other people in their life?
03:06Two other peep two other service providers. Okay. Got it.
03:09They wanted two more quotes or whatever. Yeah. Okay.
03:11Yeah. And so the thing is, though, is if I can you know, you might think you need x, y, and z in your business. But if you have a conversation with me and I'm like, well, look.
03:20I I do think you need x, y, and z, but you're thinking about it the wrong way. And really, way if I was you based on my experience working with just people just like you who are at this level is they think about it like this. And what you really need is, yes, this, but you need to do it in this specific way.
03:34Otherwise, it's not gonna work. Right? So, like, independent if you work with us or not, if anybody tells you different like, I don't care if you work with us, but if anybody tells you different, I would run the other direction because they're just not being honest with you, and they're just trying to sell you something.
03:47And so, anyways, whatever that is, if I can make them think differently about their problem and solution needs, it actually eliminates all they don't need to talk to anybody else because those other people they already booked those calls with fits their original perception of what they thought they need, but you change that.
04:06Does that make sense? Yeah. 100%.
04:07Like, a great example is, you know, we might have somebody come on, and they might think that they need, uh, I'm trying to think of a good example.
04:16They might think they need more, um, setters. Right? And we might find out that, dude, actually, you're you have already too many setters for your lead flow.
04:27The main issue is these issues going on with the sales ops, and you don't have good speed to lead with your initial setters. And, actually, you need an additional closer. Right?
04:37So, like, let's say I just say that, and I I reframe their problem that way. If they have calls booked with other people about getting setters, those calls are now irrelevant. Uh-huh.
04:45I'm trying I I could have thought of a better example, but you get some kind great example. You you get what I'm kinda saying. Yeah.
04:50Like, a lot of times, like, our clients who sell marketing services, they think it's about, I need a good media buyer who knows how to do the Facebook, this and that, knows how to do targeting, and knows how to do that. Most times, it's not Facebook.
05:03It's your offer sucks. You can't communicate your offer. Nothing about what you do is different.
05:08Nothing about what you do is unique enough to where some dude scrolling on his toilet in six in the morning is like, that's interesting enough. I'm gonna take a chance. Right?
05:16So if you point that out on the sales call and you help them really understand your problem's not x, it's y. Now we'll help you with x, but, like, y is kind of the foundation.
05:26And if you do that without that, it's like building a house on a foundation of sand. Does that make sense? Yeah.
05:31And if I can get them to agree to that, which an agreement basically means if once they agree, I've built a new belief. Right? And I'm stacking those beliefs.
05:39Then anybody else they talk to is not gonna bring that up, and I'll even say this. Look. I don't care if you work with us.
05:45Independent if you work with us or not. If somebody doesn't tell you what I just told you Run. Go the other direction.
05:52And that doesn't mean you have to work with us. But, like, this is actually what you need. And by the way, you know how you said that you've been working with people in the past and it hasn't worked out?
06:00It's probably because they hadn't addressed this, isn't it? Yeah. Right?
06:03So, look, not saying you have to work with us, but this is really what you need. And in fact, I'm making it harder on myself in this conversation right now because it would've been easy for me to just give you Facebook ads because that's what you want.
06:15You want Facebook ads. I have to come I'm kinda going out of my way That's here so good. Tell you what the real problem is Yeah.
06:20Which is not necessarily what you came on for. It'd be easier if I just nodded my head along, yeah, and gave you the price. But it's because this is what you need.
06:28And I'm like, can we so and I'll be like, what do you think about that? Are you are you bringing up this conversation before they bring up the objection about you talking to two or three more people?
06:36The way I look at it is there's intro, that's rapport and frame, there's discovery, then there's what's called the transition phase. That's between the fact finding and the pitch, then there's the pitch, then there's the close.
06:46I bring this up in the transition phase. I call it the pre pitch. And so the pre pitch is essentially where I want to break down all the limiting beliefs that keep them from buying and rebuild all the positive beliefs that they need to believe to be true, that if they believe, they'll automatically, when they hear my pitch, be like, dude, that's exactly what I need, and they'll buy.
07:07Does that make sense? Yeah. And so I might have somebody come on and, you know, we place salespeople, but they might not know you know, they might have kinda not read the ad all the way through, and they might want fully outsourced done for you sales.
07:21And, also, on top of that, they want that. They want a fully outsourced done for you setter team, and they have no leads. So in my prepitch, I have to break down, you know, done for you versus in house, and I have to break down that look like, I know you came on for this, but you really need leads.
07:38We'll help you with the salesperson, but we need to help you with leads too. And then so then I gotta rebuild those other two things. But then I wanna set an agreement and get their buy in on that.
07:47Once I said I'll be like, you know so I'll give my and I do that all in a consulting format. So I'll start it off with like, look. You know?
07:53Do you want my honest advice on your business? Yeah. Okay.
07:55Great. You know? Look.
07:56This isn't coming from just me. You know? I've worked with people like you or Tony or this person and this person.
08:00And I've worked with people in your industry just like you, like this person doing this amount of revenue, this person doing this amount of revenue. So I have a lot of data, and I just wanna tell you what I observed is working for people just like you who are at this level, which is where you wanna get to.
08:14Right? Right. Okay.
08:15Great. So look. Here's what I'm seeing, and then I'll kinda break it down in a consulting based format.
08:20And then I'll be like, so what do you think about that? You know? And and if it's a lot of things, the the key thing is for every when you're pitching or you're talking or whatever, every 45, you do a check-in, which you could say, does that make sense?
08:35What do you think about that? Do you follow? Whatever.
08:38But so I'm kind of, like, checking in. Anytime I make a big point, I'm like, so what are your thoughts on that?
08:45You don't say, any thoughts on that? They said no. What are your thoughts on that is I forget the It's more open ended.
08:51I forget the NLP or whatever. Why but try it. You'll get a response.
08:55They'll be like, what are my thoughts on that? You'll get a response. And so or I'll say, you know, so based on what we talked about earlier when we brought up this, do you see how now if you did it this way, you would get this?
09:06Right? So, like, that's another way you can do. But I'm trying to kind of when you're pitching or when you're explaining stuff, you you wanna think about it like building a house and laying bricks.
09:16It's like you make a point, and then there needs to be dialogue to set the point in. Oh, yeah.
09:21Right? Like, we there there's a lot of studies that humans actually the only way they can show shift beliefs is not by their own introspection. It's about socializing with other humans.
09:32Yeah. So that that research was done actually with, uh, people shifting their political beliefs.
09:37And they found that, like, left to their own device, they can't reason to new beliefs, so to speak. But if you when they're in dialogue, there can be minor shifts to beliefs, which is part of the issue because we don't talk to each other as a country.
09:52Right. Right. So if we talk to each other more, there'd be more fluidness to probably a more powerful center or whatever.
09:58So, anyways, so you wanna create you you give them a little bit. You give them a point, and then we wanna create dialogue.
10:04Right? And that's does that make sense? Cool.
10:07What are your thoughts on that? Then once I get the kind of the whole thing out of the way and I've made my case, so to speak, I'll kinda recap it. I'll be like, so look.
10:14Again, in the you know, we'll get into how we work together in a second, but I did I'm again, I'm just telling you what I would do if I was you in your situation. So we covered this, that, the other. And based on everything I know about people just like you, this is gonna help you get to this level.
10:28But what's really important is, like, do you agree with what I laid out here? That's a very key phrase.
10:34Because an agree once we can have an agreement, I set a belief. Critical. I set a belief.
10:39Does that make sense? Yeah. And so that's how I create a new belief.
10:43And by the nature of them believing that, they're also not believing the things that we're gonna get in the way of my sale. So that's how when I do that like, I know I just went over the clothes and all this stuff, but that is how you end up getting no objections.
10:53Like, most of the objections I get are more like logistical. You know?
10:59I gotta talk to this person. How is the money gonna work? I gotta transfer funds from here, stuff like that.
11:06But I I almost can't I'm I don't let myself get to the end without like, I'm gonna know where they're at. Yeah.
11:12You know? Unless I'm just taking a shot, like, it's just a long shot prospect or something, but that's rare. I'm gonna get to the end.
11:18I'm gonna know they're in. Because I I call it, like, there's two sales you make in every sales call. There's the sale on, like, the idea.
11:25Right? And, like, do I like the plan? Right?
11:28Am I sold on the plan? And then there's actually the purchase. But 80% of the effort on the sales call is, like, selling them on the plan.
11:36Sort of like for you, we're subject to creative financing. If I was a rep, most likely, it depends on each prospect, but almost probably 90% of the time, really, my objective on the call is not to sell the product.
11:50It's to get them to a 100% believe that the way you do real estate and creative finance and your specific methodology is the bridge between where they are now to where they wanna be.
12:01Because if they believe that, then, obviously, buying your product is the next step. But they have to if they don't believe that the method and the plan is going to work, then they're never going to if they have to go convince their spouse, never gonna convince their spouse because they don't think it's gonna work.
12:16How are they gonna transfer certainty when they don't have it? Zero.
12:20Yeah. They they can't do it. Right?
12:21Does that make sense? So, um, it's always about selling. This is why, like, when Russell Brunson way back in the day, he sold, like, all this money on Grant Cardone stage, and it was, like, the most anybody's ever sold.
12:31What was it? 30,000,030 it was, like, a minute It was million dollars per minute.
12:3410 x two. Right? Yeah.
12:36And if you watch that presentation, does he talk about ClickFunnels? No. What he does is he's really selling on the idea that funnels at that time is the most effective, best way to whatever grow your business because most people were doing, like, websites.
12:49Yeah. You know? And so he's like, no.
12:50Your website is your business card. What you really need is a salesperson. But a salesperson, you know, it's not a traditional salesperson.
12:57You need an online salesperson. He made, like, that analogy that it's really a funnel. And so but once you believe that, you buy ClickFunnels.
13:03Right? So he talks about that in his book. It's like domino belief, but that comes from, like, age old direct response marketing.
13:08It's called the central marketing thesis. Right? It's like the one belief that if they believe, you know, naturally, they're gonna buy.
13:15So really a lot of what I'm trying to do on the sales call is I'm trying to figure out what is that belief for them, and I'm trying to kinda chip away.
13:24I gotta, you know, do a lot of sub beliefs to get them there, and then I get the agreement. And then after that, it's like going downhill. And then, hopefully, I don't have to handle objections.
13:33I gotta handle logistics. The only objection if they really believe it's gonna work, the only thing that you'll have to, objection wise, really deal with is fear.
13:42But that's easy. If all if if there's whole scare But how do you overcome the the objection of fear? So if they're like know, a lot of times And the fear is usually the fear of failure.
13:53Like, if I buy the thing? So here's how it shows up, though. Because do they do they ever say I mean, they could.
13:58But do they ever say, dude, I'm just scared? No. No.
14:02So what they usually do is I'm like they're like, well, you know, I just gotta still think about and I'm like, okay. Look. So money and everything aside, you know, we laid out x, y, and z in terms of our plan to get you here.
14:13Right? So money everything aside, do you a 100% believe that it's gonna work?
14:19Right? That's the phrase. So, again, you see what I'm doing there?
14:22I'm making the sale on the plan, on the belief. Yeah. Now what you'll happen a lot of times is they're like, well, you know, this like, okay.
14:30And then so I'm like, I can tell like, let's say they a lot of times, if they're certain, they'll be like, dude, a 100%. They'll say it like that.
14:39But then if they're uncertain, they'll be like, they'll do one of those. You know?
14:45Uh, Yeah. And then I'll just cut them off, and I'll be like, okay. Look.
14:49Well, let's just be honest for a second. Like, you you obviously don't a 100% think it's gonna work, which is fine. Maybe I didn't explain everything the way I should But, like, what specifically is coming up for you?
14:58What specifically is keeping you from being less than a 100% certain that this is really what you need? Because I know it, but, you know, I need to do my job and explain it to you that it's gonna work.
15:08Right? So, like, what specifically do you think is making this not gonna work? Now back to the fear.
15:14So because when I ask that, I'm either gonna isolate an objection that's real, and then that's like a little inch like, I think about this, like, squeezing the orange.
15:24Yeah. I'm trying to make the juice come out. So if, like, real juice comes out, I can handle that.
15:28Like, if a concrete objection comes out, I handle it, tie down, new agreement, and then go back. Right?
15:35But a lot of times with the fear thing, what the way it shows up is they're like, I I just yeah.
15:42I just don't know. They'll be like, I don't know. You know, they don't say it like that, but they'll wiffle waffle again.
15:46And the way you get them to admit it is you just be like, just be honest with me. Is this just a little bit of nerves? Are you just a little bit nervous?
15:53That's great. So I give them the objection. I sense I see it in them.
15:58So, like, they don't say it. But if I'm focused, if I have my whole attention like a meditation rested onto the prospect, I see it in their body language.
16:06So I'm like, dude, it's just a little bit of is it I don't say it's little bit of fear. I say It's nerves are the nerves. Great.
16:11I like the word. A little bit of nerves. Great word.
16:13Yeah. And they'll be like, yeah. It's just a little bit of nerves.
16:15I'll be like, well, good. Because nobody wants to admit they're afraid. Yeah.
16:18So if you're like, yeah. I think it's just a little bit of nerves. I'm like, good.
16:22Look. I would think you're a little crazy if this didn't make you a little bit nervous. But here's the way I look at it.
16:27Nothing ever great in this world was built by somebody who wasn't a little bit nervous at first. So the real question's not like, what are we gonna do about the nerves? The real question is like, who are you gonna be in this moment?
16:39Because there's two types of people. Like, right now, you know, there's 1% of people. Like, you wanna make a million dollars a year?
16:45That's, like, top point 1% of people, and then there's everybody else. Do you know what separates those two types of people? It's they bump up to this glass wall of nerves and fear, and the difference is who can actually break through and feel the fear and do it anyways, and who are the people who let the fear guide you.
17:06So which one of those two people are you gonna be? Yeah. Bro.
17:10Oh my gosh. Yeah.
17:12Oh my gosh. It's so good.
17:14It's so good. If you're enjoying this conversation and you wanna be in a room with people who are just like the people I have on this podcast so you can ultimately network with the highest level people in the industry and up level your business, you should fly out to meet us in Scotland at the end of July. So this is a one time opportunity where you can get a ticket to actually be able to come if you qualify to network and get content and ultimately work with me and my team and so many other high level speakers in the industry in Scotland at the end of July.
17:43So you have to be doing at least a $100,000 a month in your business to qualify. If not, don't bother with it. But if that's you and you're trying to scale to 10,000,000 or even 20,000,000 or a 100,000,000 a year, there's other people in the room who have done that, and the speakers I'm gonna have in Scotland have done that too.
18:00So check out the link in the description and see if you qualify. And if you do, book a call with my team. We'll talk about the ticket price to be able to come.
18:06This is the only time you're gonna be able to do this, so take advantage of it. Now back to the podcast. Podcast.
18:11What are the objections that most weak sales guys are running into, like, during at the end of the call? So if if you're weak, you'll get can you Like, top three. Can you send me something?
18:21We get this in real estate. It's send me an offer. I'll I'll look at your offer.
18:25Send me an offer.
18:26Means I didn't do a good job. So for for you and a lot of your industry, like, yeah. Send me something.
18:30Send me brochure. Send me some that means I wanna get off the call. I don't know what you said.
18:33I wanna get off the call. A little well, I can actually a lot of these ones are not one I mean, you can handle at the end. They're just tough.
18:40So, like, can you send me something? Can I speak to one of your clients? You know, I need to think about it can go either way.
18:50But, like, a lot of it's a legitimate concern. Other times, it's not. Yes.
18:54Like, I think I need to think about it could just be, you know, like, some there's certain women that the, you know, that's the way they are.
19:02They're they feel a lot. And you can if you're paying any level of attention at all to your freaking prospect, which some people don't, like, these people are obvious. You can just tell they're like they need like, they they get information, and then it, like, digests.
19:14That's almost how I think about it. Yeah. And there's nothing wrong with giving that person 24.
19:19But a lot of requests for more information are just people wanting to get off the phone. You know, the main reason that happens is is because you ever heard the term mansplaining?
19:29Oh, yeah. Yeah. So it's oh, it's almost like or no.
19:31Maybe that's not the right term for this. But regardless, what happens is is a lot you remember when I was talking about you need to make a point, and usually every forty five seconds, you need to check-in?
19:41Yeah. And your pitch shouldn't be an anvil drop. It should be a dialogue.
19:45Yeah. So, like, the worst thing you can ever do, and this is, like, taught by some people, is, okay.
19:50I'm gonna tell you everything about what we do. Just hold your questions at end. Mm-mm.
19:53Right? Like, don't do that. No.
19:54You want your pitch almost to be a conversation, not a pitch. It shouldn't even feel like a pitch.
19:59But what happens is is if you're talking to somebody who's like a beginner and then you start talking super high level and you're talking a lot and you're talking really fast, and then you're not doing these check ins because, like, you're not laying the bricks. You're not getting the understanding. A lot of times and you've probably been on calls like this where you're like, holy shit.
20:16Like, this it might not even be like you've don't like the salesperson or you're it might not even be that you're not interested. You're just like, dude, I have no idea what the fuck just happened. Yeah.
20:24So just send me something. Like, sometimes my tax guy from Do Wealth, he's really smart, and he'll, like, be breaking down this deal or, like, this tax strategy to me. And he talks so fast, and I'll be like, dude, can you just send me an email?
20:36I'm like, I I don't know what you just said. I'm like, can you just I'm like, really busy. Can you just send me an email?
20:41Because I feel dumb because I have no idea what you just said. Like, x y z in the tax code and this and that and then I'm like, can you just put this in an email? Because I'm probably gonna upload it to Claude.
20:51You know? I I so it's not necessarily, like, the prospect hates you.
20:55They just might be like, somewhere in the pitch, they just thought, I don't understand this. I'm gonna get information, and then, like, I am gonna think about it.
21:04I just wanna be polite and get off the phone. Yeah. Yeah.
21:06So that's a very common one. K.
21:08Um, what about, um, price?
21:12Well, so the way price works is let's say I drop the investment, and then you're like, dude, I really wanna do it. Um, I just gotta figure it out to make or or you you might say, dude, I really wanna do it. I just don't think I can afford it.
21:25I say, I do no problem at all. So just to be clear, we can answer the most important question, money and everything aside, do you wanna do this?
21:32Like, do you believe that what we laid out is a 100% what you need to get your business to x, y, and z? And, again, I'm watching with their body language.
21:43I don't want this. I want kind of the still head. I want yes.
21:47Right? And then and so if they say yes, that's the first tie down. The second one, I'll say, okay.
21:52Great. Money aside then, you're a 100% in. And then I'll say, okay.
21:56Great. Well, look. Most of our clients, they do it upfront.
22:02But for certain people like you who are a 100% in, and it's really just a way to make it work financially, there is times where you break it up.
22:11But in order for me to tell you kinda what's available there, um, everything is all customized and I have to get approved by the manager. So are you open to having an honest conversation financially, getting everything on the table so we can see if there's a way to make this work now?
22:25Or at the very least, we can create a game plan for us to work to together for this in the future. So good. Right?
22:32So what I'm what I'm doing there is getting there's a lot of stuff I did there, but the main thing is I'm getting permission. So then they're like, yes.
22:39And I'll be like, okay. Great. So, like, let's lay out your finances and just be open and honest with me.
22:43So then I ask three questions. I say, this is, like, more on a coaching example. You know?
22:47Like, there's certain stuff that you wouldn't do this. But I'll say, okay. So what's your net incoming cash in the next thirty days after expenses, etcetera, whatever?
22:54What's gonna be left over in thirty days? That's a good question because it lets me know what what second payment they can make as well as you'll see the next question is a little bit harder hitting.
23:06So I wanna get them in a pattern of answering my question. So they'll say whatever. Then I'll say, okay.
23:12Great. And what's your cash on hand right now exactly? And you gotta just say it.
23:16Right? So you're you're literally gonna find out. I mean, I I will have them pull up Chase and tell me what's in the bank account.
23:23Okay? And so a lot of times, what they'll say, barely anything. I know.
23:27I know. And I'm not asking what you could spend right now, but I'm trying to build a plan. Like, I want you to at least leave with a plan so you can work towards this.
23:35So, you know, checking, savings, etcetera, what's actually available? And you just gotta straight face say it. Oh, yeah.
23:41If you have baggage and you bring it on Oh, yeah. If you think it's weird, they think it's weird. But remember, at this stage I say this to people all the time.
23:46If you make it weird, it's gonna be weird. If you don't Remember, at this stage because people think this is aggressive, but you gotta remember, at this stage, they have actually told me now three times Yeah. That they really wanna do it.
23:57And they've been on a phone call with you or Zoom for an hour, forty five minutes. Like I'm, like, asking somebody who doesn't wanna do it Yeah. What's in your bank account?
24:05I mean, they told me three times, I really wanna do it. It's seriously just money, but if I could do it, it's gonna change my life. Okay.
24:11I'm gonna ask you what's in your bank account. So I you know, so I get that number.
24:14A lot of times, they'll be like they'll say they'll say something like $2. I always assume that they're telling me because when you ask that question, they'll tell you what they can spend, not what's available.
24:25Those are two different things. You know? There's times, like, you've probably been in this where you're like, some big expenses have come up, and you're like, babe, we can't spend we don't have nothing right now.
24:34We're not spending anything. I just did this last week. I was like, we gotta pay for a whole brand new pool.
24:38Don't spend a dollar. Yeah. I'm like Meanwhile, we got a million dollars or I I know.
24:42There there's been some times where I go to the grocery store. I'm like, we we're we're not paying for that. Yeah.
24:46Like, we can't afford that. Meanwhile, you got a $100 sitting in the checking account. Yeah.
24:49Yeah. Or a lot more than that. So, um, cash on hand.
24:52They don't ask about credit. Okay? So I kinda had to, like you know, they kinda had to undress in front of me a little bit there.
24:59So then what I do is I say, okay. Great. And you really wanna do this.
25:03Right? Because what I what I basically did is I created, like you know, when they got really burnable there, they kinda puts me in a little bit of a sales frame.
25:13So I gotta get them to come back in on their own accord. Saying, you really wanna do this. Right?
25:17Right. Now once I know all their money, what what's gonna happen is I can I mean, they might not be able to do it, or it might not be the right fit for them?
25:25I'll tell them no. Or I'll tell them, you know, like I said earlier, we'll create a game plan to work for this in the future. So we'll create a game plan to work for this in the future, and they will come back and maybe they'll buy.
25:36But let's say they can do it. It just can't be the full pay. It's gotta be a two pay, or it's it gotta be a three pay.
25:41Or maybe I gotta do a low payment. And then, you know, let's say it's a 13 thing. Uh, I gotta do 3 k, then 5 k, 5 k.
25:48Yeah. Whatever it is. Yeah.
25:49So then I give them a plan that I know they can do. And I'll I'll I'll try to wait it wait it a little bit to, like, the edge of it might be close, but I give them a plan that technically the funds are there to do.
26:05And I'll say it like this. I'll say, well, look. Just being honest.
26:09So as again, do you really wanna do this? Right? Right.
26:11Okay. So look. I don't think the best thing for you is to go, you know, 15 k, drop this on a credit card, and just do this in one shot.
26:20Like, I wouldn't even allow you to do that. But I also don't think the best thing based on what we talked about earlier with x, y, and z is do nothing. So what I'd be willing to do for you is we can break it into two.
26:32That way, you can come in for half down now and get x done, get y done, get this done. That way in thirty days when that second payment comes around, you've already this.
26:41You've already that. You've already this, and you have so much momentum. It's almost like it's an afterthought.
26:46Yeah. But if I was willing to do that for you, are you willing to move forward right now?
26:52Okay. So you see how what you know, you asked, like, how do you handle financial objections.
26:57Right? Do you see how, like, basically, that whole thing I did, I could've just said, do you want a two pay?
27:06Yeah. But you see how I set all of that up to where now when I'm because, like, basically, my payment plans are my negotiating trades at the close. So you see how, number one, when I gave you the payment plan, I know you can do it.
27:17You can't tell me you can't do it. I know you can do it. Second, when I gave it to you, I said, if I'm willing to do that for you, are you willing to move forward right now?
27:25So the best closings are little trades. Yeah. Right?
27:28So, like, what happens is is I'm trading better terms to you for a decision now. Yeah.
27:34Does that make sense? And that's valuable to me. Now a lot of times what'll happen is because I what I try to do is I try to edge on a little bit more of something I know they can't do.
27:44Because people like concessions. They like good deals. Yeah.
27:46So I'll kind of like, no. They can't do a two pay, but I know they could do the three. So I'll I'll push for the two pay knowing they really can't do it.
27:53We'll kinda, like, have tension. Yeah. And then what I'll do is I'll relieve the tension and be like, well and just to be sure, you do really wanna do it.
28:00Right? Okay. You're making me bend over backwards, but look.
28:04If you give me a case study and if you and if you come in right now, then I'll break it into three for you. But you gotta give me that case study.
28:12And you also in your case study, you gotta say my name specifically because, like, you know, PACE gets all the credit. I get no credit. So you gotta give me some credit in that case study.
28:19But It's I can do that It sounds silly, but it's so critically important. Yeah. And the other thing is too is that so so when I when I do the two pay and I know they kinda can't do it and I'm building all of that attention, then what happens is when I finally give them the thing that they can do, it they they wanna take it because it releases the tension.
28:37Yes. Yes. You know?
28:38And, like, Cialdini talks about this too is, like, your second offer is more likely to get taken than your third, and your third offer is more likely to get taken than your second. So I'm kinda playing off that as well. But, yeah, the framework in summary was, um, tie down number one, you know, money on it aside.
28:51Do you think it's gonna work? Do you think it's gonna help you get to blank? Tie down number two is, okay.
28:55Great. Sorry. Do it twice.
28:57So clarify. Money aside, you're a 100% in. Then I get permission.
29:00A lot of people like you, uh, or sorry. Most people do it up front, but for people like you who really wanna do it, sometimes we break it up.
29:08But then, you know, how we do that is all customized. Are you open to having an honest conversation, etcetera? So I give permission.
29:15And also in that language, say, so either we could do it now or we could create a game plan for you to do this in the future. So many people are doing this wrong. Game plan thing Yeah.
29:24What I'm doing there is I'm saying, basically, look. We're gonna do this, but you we might not even be able to do it.
29:31So I'm not I'm basically telling them I'm okay with there not being a sale Yeah. Which diffuses the pressure of them telling me all their money. Yeah.
29:39Then when I go through the money, I go through it in that sequence. And I also assume when they give me the cash on hand and all this stuff, that a lot of times, they'll they'll use vague language, or they'll tell you what they can spend. So then you gotta clarify.
29:50You gotta get everything out on the table. Then from there and you really wanna do this right. I get them to come closer.
29:56Okay. Great. Because I don't think the best thing for you is this.
29:57I don't think the best thing for you is this. So and then I make the trade. Right.
30:01So good. Kind of the summary of that. I What's what's the psychological thing about people wanting to get a deal?
30:08You know what I'm saying? Like They just do. I mean, I we like deals.
30:11I don't I know. You like deals? So I have this interesting thing
30:15where a couple years ago, I was transitioning. This is 2017. I was transitioning out of being in the living room negotiating with sellers.
30:22Mhmm. And I was starting to get on podcasts. So I was getting really, really busy.
30:26And one of my gals that was in the office, she says, can I start taking some of these appointments? I go, yes. But couple of critical things.
30:32Number one, you're gonna get leads that are saying, I'm good at this price. It's okay to contract at that price, but don't give them that price in the first conversation.
30:41Oh, a 100%. Yeah. Okay.
30:43So I go Florida. I'm on a podcast. She gets this we get this lead that comes in.
30:48The seller says in the intake, I'm good at $200,000. I'll walk away.
30:53I look at that number. Go, $2,200,000 works, but do not offer $200,000.
30:58Even if we contract at $200,000, do not contract at $200,000. Yeah.
31:04So I go through the process, and I go, look. This is like real estate investor one zero one.
31:09You go into the house. What's the number that you'd be willing to, you know, part with? Okay.
31:13Sounds good. I need to go get approval that's way higher than what we're approved for. Let me call my supervisor and see if I can move it up a little bit.
31:22Yeah. And then still be $10,000 below and go, look. I we my supervisor approves at one ninety.
31:28And then even if we sign at two hundred, make it feel like it was the most agonizing thing for us to get up to that thing. So they feel like they gotta do it.
31:37Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
31:38So, Anna, she goes, um, I I get off the podcast. I go, hey.
31:42How'd the appointment go? She goes, good. I got it at two hundred thousand.
31:45I go, but you never called me. Oh, I didn't need to. He was ready to sign right there.
31:49I go, Anna, he's canceling. He's gonna call us tomorrow and cancel the freaking Yeah. Contract.
31:56She was, no. He was so excited. I go, no.
31:58In the moment he felt like he beat you, tonight when he's got his head on his pillow, he's gonna feel like he lost. Yep. A 100%.
32:06But, you know, the thing is salespeople don't sell the thing that makes them the most money or therefore you the most money. They just sell the easiest thing there is to sell.
32:13Right? So the reason for that is because the reinforcement loop of a salesperson is not how much money am I making today.
32:23It's the yes. Yeah. And it's trying not to get a rejection.
32:26Right? That's why They're so afraid of rejection. They're just chasing a yes in any possible way.
32:30It's why, you know, theoretically, if we had a perfect sorting system for leads, we could you know, if you had a $10,000 thing and a $2,000 thing, if there's a perfect sorting system for leads, you know, all these people will go to 10 k, then the people who truly couldn't do the 10 k would've go to two k.
32:46The issue is is just when you add in human psychology, what happens is is when you have a down sell, it cannibalizes so much of the 10 k. You know?
32:55Because, again, it's just especially a salesperson, is it easier to do all of that wrestling, or is it easier to just take the path of least resistance?
33:04It's just easier to take the path of least resistance. Always. Especially, you know, to give them a little bit of slack when you're on 25 calls a week and, you know, today is, like, your fourth call.
33:13Yeah. And, like, you got beat up on the last call, and you're like, dude, I haven't had a sale in two days. Like, just give me a yes.
33:17Like, I need a yes. I need to I need to get my, you know, mojo rolling. Juice.
33:21So a lot of them to just remove that option.
33:23We don't have a low ticket. Yeah. Good.
33:26I have a lot of people who criticize us about it. No. I think it's good.
33:29And even I fought with Josiah on it multiple times. Like, we should have something, and he's like, no. Because what's gonna happen is it will cannibalize that.
33:36Yeah. Yeah. That's the thing we believe in.
33:38That's the thing that's gonna transform their lives. That's the thing that we're gonna sell. Mhmm.
33:42I'm like, okay. Got it. And it's worked out, obviously, very, very, very well for us.
33:46But me, even as a salesperson, I'm the same way. I'm like, just give me a yes. I'd rather stack up five small yeses than deal with one freaking no.
33:53Yeah. And so it makes a lot of sense. And, anyway, that call, what ended up happening is I called that seller, and I said, hey.
33:59Look. I'm the owner of the company. Let me tell you what happened.
34:03I told Anna to not give you $200. Even though $200 is a good number for me, I didn't wanna give it to you because I knew that you would be canceling the next day if we gave it to you too early. Luckily, in real estate, once they sign a contract with you, they can't cancel unless you I breach contract.
34:18But I said, there's two ways we can do this. A, we can just move forward with $200 knowing that that was the number I was gonna make you get me up to, or, b, I gotta sue you for specific performance, which is a specific real estate law. He was like, okay.
34:31I will move forward with you. He's like, why didn't you just give me a lower offer? I go, I don't know.
34:36And he goes, I probably would have felt better about the sale. I go, I know you would have. Yeah.
34:39Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
34:40And so I wish salespeople understood that. It also you know, when you don't go through this psychological arc, which you just went through beautifully, the chances of them making that second or third payment also go down even if you were able to maneuver and, like, get them to do a a lower payment option.
34:58If you don't take them what you just went through, they're not making a second or a third payment because they don't feel loyal to the company Well that just did a favor for them. It it's it's the going above and beyond. Right.
35:07Right? When that payment comes around, it's a lot different if they're like, well, you know, whatever. It was just given to me versus,
35:14you know, so and so, like Man, Cole went out of his way. Went out of their way. Right?
35:18Yeah. And and you don't need to necessarily do I mean, I know in in your industry, you do the manager thing. You you could do that just with your like, a salesperson could just do that.
35:27Right? Like, you just have to be disciplined. It's about, like like, I don't know if it's a marshmallow test or what.
35:32It's just it's like, delay the gratification for five minutes. You know? You're you're gonna be okay.
35:36They're not gonna hang up on you. Yeah. But it's
35:40they want the deal. Man, I wish I was I wish I was trained by you, bro. I wish I was trained by you.
35:46You don't train anybody directly anymore, do you? Um,
35:49no. I mean, there's one team I work with every now and then, one on one.
35:54But I I kinda just do it for fun. If I was in your mastermind, what would I expect to get out of that? Well, we do three times a year.
36:02I so and, you know, the next one's in Scotland, for instance, so we try to make it a little fun, a little different. Three days, half activities, half this, uh, or half content like you were talking about. What I really try to make the mastermind for is specifically for people who are kind of in the online services economy industry or the high ticket industry who are trying to go from either 100 k a month to 1,000,000 a month or 1,000,000 a month and beyond.
36:27Right? And so a lot of what I talk about is kinda what we've been talking about here is the sales process, sales systems, sales ops, sales teams, setter teams, all of that stuff.
36:37But I also kinda break down and just share each quarter or and it's, well, not each quarter, but every four months. What's working out with us across marketing, sales, operations, fulfillment, finance, sometimes things that are just like, here's what I learned. You know?
36:49Here's some of the breakthroughs and fuck ups that I've had. Yeah. And then I try to have either our top clients who've broken past a million to 5,000,000 a month or whatever it is.
36:57I try to have them speak and share their stories. I try to have, you know, people like you speak and and share your genius,
37:04you know, and so on and so forth, or I try to bring in, you know, experts to speak and also just facilitate a good network. So You guys are 70 k a year? Yeah.
37:11Bro, like, one relationship in a room like that is a million dollars. It's easy. It's so easy.
37:15Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
37:16It's so easy.
37:18Have you thought about making a higher tier at some point? Well, there is higher tiers. And part of that is when you bolt on, like, we have unlimited recruiting packages where you recruit as much as you want Oh, that's a certain amount.
37:30So, like, that's like a mastermind plus that. Um, and then I'm thinking about especially as my organic has been doing better, doing, like, an a 150 to 200, 250 k thing.
37:40But maybe that's just me and, like, 10 really badass people. And I and and, like, I like training sales teams.
37:47So, I mean, it's actually fun for me, and I haven't done it since, you know, back when I worked with you guys. So, like, I think 2020 was my last full year of doing that. And so I train my own team because that's fun, but I love training just like the regular salesperson because I I can just come in as, like, a force of nature.
38:04You know? They're just like, who is this guy? And it's just fun to, you know, and I can you know, my team, I'm kinda inching out little things each day, obviously.
38:14If I come into a random team, I can just make a huge in like, I can I can change the way they sell that day? Yeah. You know?
38:20And the way they show up and and all that stuff. And so I thought about bringing that back. Like, you know, maybe I'll just, like, have some sort of package where I get on a call a week.
38:28Not a call a week, but maybe a call every other week or something like that. And I just train their I just run their meeting. Oh.
38:33You know? Train their team. Bro.
38:35It'd be fun. If you create something like that, please sign us up. Okay.
38:38Please. Please. Please.
38:39Please. We would love to do that. Um, what's a book that any guy maybe a guy like me, right, runs a team already.
38:45What's a book that you suggest I read? Well, have you read Ready, Fire, Aim? No.
38:49Well, that's the book from Michael or, uh, Mark Ford. The it's Michael Masterson's, like, the pen name for whatever reason. But that's really how they scaled Agora from a zero to a 100,000,000 a year.
39:00And then, you know, in that is kind of like you can see the initial seeds of how they got to over a billion. That's probably one of my favorite business books. Would say a book that you would have your sales guys read?
39:11Well, The Inner Game of Tennis is really good. That one's really good. There's another book called Straight Line Leadership, and it's a book by this guy.
39:18He must have a coaching company, and it's old school. But he talks it's like a personal development, personal success book, but it's it's kinda hardcore.
39:27And it's not like he he really is, like, very blunt. And, um, it's funny I have my sales team read that just because that book, the way he does these reframes and the way he, like, kinda coaches you throughout the book and addresses your mindset, they're almost all, like, objection.
39:45Straight line leadership? Straight straight line leadership. Yeah.
39:49And it's a pretty easy read. It's really good. It'll pump you up.
39:52But, like, some of the chapters and the frameworks that he takes you through and how he's, like, coaching you, it's like you could use those on your prospects. And if you read it as you're a sales guy, you'll start saying that in, like, 1985.
40:04Yeah. That's it. Oh my god.
40:06That's a good one. Okay. I gotta I I'll pick this one.
40:08Yeah. The the sales the sales, like, mindset, all time greats. There's not a lot of good sales books for, like, today's day and age in my opinion.
40:15But the mind like, Relentless by Tim Grover, like, that's I you know, that's a good one for salespeople to lead. Bro, look at the price on this book. That one.
40:22No way. It's out of print.
40:24Oh my god. So they're selling They're used like new, though. Three yeah.
40:27Used for $75 for a book. I get it.
40:31That must be a a great book. Yeah. 4.8 stars.
40:35Alright. I'm getting that one. Nice.
40:37Um, that book, relentless. And then, um, I said the other one.
40:43Inner game of tennis. That's a good one. There's a 177 mental, uh, toughness habits of the world class.
40:50That's a good one. Yeah. That's that's good for salespeople, especially in our industry because a lot of the objection handling comes from you you you'll pull from that book those books because it's like a lot of mindset stuff.
41:04Like, a lot of our objections are like mindset.
41:07What's a habit that the top sales guys have, like, after hours that other guys don't have?
41:14What I used to do is I mean, this is, the common, um, you know, I think Mark Cuban said, like, you work all day, then you sharpen the saw after you're done working.
41:24But when I would finish work, and I would even do this before work, um, I always review my game tape, but I'll give you a very, uh, key thing.
41:34So I would do this in the mornings, actually. So this isn't after hours, but it's before I wake up super early, so I'm more of a before person. And so what I used to do when I was full time selling is I would listen to a win a day.
41:46So on one and a half x speed because two x speed's like you can't even if you're if you're working out or you're doing something, you can't even hear what you're saying. So one and a half times speed, I just listen to myself closing somebody. And I just I would rotate through I had a list of top 20 best hits, and I just rotate through the best hits.
42:00So good. Occasionally, I throw one in there. But anytime I had a banger, I'm like, this is going on the playlist.
42:06And so I would work out and because what you you know, a sales guy, what happens is is, you know, some of them, depending on how emotional they could be, they could have three bad days, and they're like, did I forget how to sell? Yeah. What is going on with me?
42:17It's the leads. Yeah. What is going on with Right?
42:19The marketing department sucks. And what happens is is most salespeople like, it's natural to have this.
42:26You know? Like, I mean, even when I was at my peak, I mean, I could have 10 calls in a row that didn't close, and I could close the next five.
42:33You know? I mean, there was one week I remember specifically where I didn't have anything until Thursday. Thursday, I got seven.
42:39Yeah. You know, it's just weird how it works. And so, um, oh, yeah.
42:45Win a day. So the reason that's so important is you're just reminding yourself how simple it is.
42:51Yeah. Okay. It's simple.
42:52I know how to do it. I'm really good at it. I know how to do it.
42:54I'm really good at it. And you're just kind of, like, training your brain also on what a good call sounds like so you can kind of lock in that as a new baseline. If you wanna you know, if you've ever taken a call and you're like, man, I wish all the sales calls I took were that good.
43:08Okay. Great. Just listen to it every day.
43:10Yeah. I think I know that sounds so simple, but, dude, it works so well. Because I think what a lot of sales guys do, me included, is I will reinvent the way I said something prior
43:19Yeah. To keep myself interested.
43:21Yep. Meanwhile, it was the line that got them excited. Well, you know, David Ogilvy says, the first person to get bored of your marketing is you.
43:27Yep. Always. Yeah.
43:28Always. People are a moving parade. You know?
43:30They're not a standing parade. Right. So, you know, you yeah.
43:34The I mean, I could talk to you about organic
43:36and and cold traffic probably in a whole another podcast. That has been a big challenge for me over the last six or seven years as I've learned how to be a marketer that I would go, well, my audience needs something completely different. It's like, no.
43:49They don't because they the people that listen to you for forty five days, they moved on to a new thing or they converted. And now you got a whole new parade. Mhmm.
43:57You got a whole new group of people. Yeah. Yeah.
43:58And they haven't seen that ad, and they haven't seen that thing, and they haven't blah blah blah. There's a new group of people that came into your your orbit because of that podcast that have never seen a single thing. Meanwhile, I'm over here trying to tweak a line or a hook that worked well.
44:11And if you're listening to one win a day from your sales calls, you're gonna be like, that's the line. I gotta just keep saying it. Like, Adele doesn't rewrite her songs every time she sings.
44:21You know what I'm saying? Like, people come to see her sing that song because it evoked a certain emotion. And so for me, when I'm on a sales call, I go, yeah.
44:28But I said it that way before. People are gonna hear it again. It's like, no, dude.
44:31It worked. Just keep doing heard it. Yeah.
44:33Who said that you wanna find, like, the key to you know, some key to success? Find something good to say and say it often. Yeah.
44:40I don't know who said that. You did, bro. They they must have been smart.
44:44They must have been really smart. I I love that you do that too. My phone is full of voice memos of me in people's homes.
44:53So, like, all the way from 2013 Nice. When I got ahold of voice memos, I still do the thing.
44:58People like, oh, get plot or get the thing on your neck. I'm like, no. I'm just gonna do it on my phone.
45:02So I put my phone upside down, and I sit in an appointment. I just did this the other day.
45:07I'm now at a point where I'm, like, super gangster at this. Check this out. I now have the balls to just go tell a seller and a real estate agent.
45:14I'm in a appointment the other day, I go, hey, real estate agent. I wanna review this, um, conversation in a couple of days.
45:21Will you hold my phone and record this entire appointment? Nice. And so the other day, I'm in this appointment, and the agent is holding my phone for an hour and four minutes as I'm going through.
45:34This is the two sellers. This is the real estate agent, and I'm going through come on, baby.
45:40Explaining give walking through the paperwork. Here's my pitch. Here's how do we do the thing.
45:44Get the signature page. This is where you sign. And I now will relisten to that all the way on the way home.
45:51I mean, it's good for my students too. I can go, here's me in an appointment. Oh, yeah.
45:55But the way I got really good was doing the one win a a day thing of like, alright. I'm heading to an appointment. What was the magic thing I said earlier?
46:03Gosh. Why did I say that? Why didn't I bring that up earlier?
46:06I can now hear what she was saying that I missed even though I closed her. Mhmm.
46:10She was saying a thing I didn't pick up on for twenty more minutes. A 100%. Yeah.
46:13Oh my gosh. It's the greatest thing you can from that. Yeah.
46:16So It's huge, and it's fun. It is fun. I mean, it can be laborious.
46:20And but if you get obsessed with sales and you also get obsessed with the results that you bring my my final question is here. For the people that are like, sales is gross, do you have any advice for those people?
46:32Well, nothing ever happens in the economy without somebody selling something. Right?
46:38So and it just depends. I mean, think about something you bought that you really like while you were sold that thing.
46:45And so you should be thankful you were sold that thing because you really like it. Yeah. So a lot of a lot of that and I'm not again, like, I just try to find people who've already been through that, and that's who I work with day to day.
46:56So I'm not like like Tony is gonna be a better specialist, obviously, obviously, or even like Dean. He's a Dean is perfect example. He's really good at talking to the crowd who's a little bit scared to sell.
47:08You know, I'm kinda talking to this crowd. Um, but with all those things, like, they've assigned a certain meaning to sales.
47:16So if you're trying to reframe yourself out of this or if you're trying to reframe your team or somebody you like out of this, if you change the context, you change the meaning. Right? So, like, that's kinda what I did there is, like, if you okay.
47:27If you think about something you were sold that you were like, oh my god. I'm so happy. I I just love this thing.
47:33Well, you were sold that no matter what, whether it's advertising a salesperson or whatever.
47:37You know? And so if you change the context, you change the meaning, but that's what I would say. I don't have a spiffy saying for it.
47:42Yeah. I think Dean's you bring up Dean. Dean Dean's my favorite quote he says is sales is a service.
47:47Right. And I'm like, it is a service. I think one of the best things you could do if you guys are a sales guy out there and you're trying to become a sales guy, um, or you're trying to do anything in sales and you have a sales team, one of the most important things you could do is show your sales team the outcome of one of the prospects.
48:05Right? Like, the testimonials. This changed my life.
48:08This was the greatest thing. What I love about these in person events right?
48:12Like, we have an in person event here. Mhmm. Where's my sales team?
48:14On the other wall. Yep. And they're in person.
48:16So what we do is we have them pop in. They listen. They watch what happens, and they're like, I need to get people in this room.
48:22Exactly. Need to. And so showing your salesperson the actual outcome of of what the prospect goes through, I think, is a really big one.
48:30But sales as a service is probably my favorite quote I've ever heard from Dean. And, um, if you're not selling, you're not serving. Mhmm.
48:38Is another one that he said as well, which is basically the same thing. It just is like, gosh. Dang.
48:42I genuinely like people, and I like serving them what they need, then I better get good at sales. Yeah. And a good way to think about it is you're moving like, sales is moving stuff forward.
48:51Right. So as long as they need it, you don't wanna move them forward on the wrong path they shouldn't be on. But as long as you're moving them forward, forward is always good Yeah.
48:59For people. Well, my my favorite thing of what we just talked about, and I'm gonna have my team watch this, and I need you to create a more expensive offer so I can utilize you more.
49:07Mhmm. And I know I can text you anytime, but I wanna pay my friends for stuff. My favorite thing that you brought up is actually challenging people during the close of, like, well, you said this.
49:16Mhmm. And now you're saying this. Mhmm.
49:18I think the prospect really does need somebody to pull them through that because they've got the psychological, like, prison, the analysis paralysis, and they're they're praying that somebody breaks them out of their BS, their belief systems. And a salesperson's job is to break people out of their BS. Yep.
49:33And that is my I'm gonna put that on replay in my Sales Room for, like, the next week and have them just listen to that part. Yeah. Because we do have people in this room, literally in this room, 300 people.
49:45There's a guy yesterday comes up to and goes, I've been following you for three years. I talked to your enrollment team three years ago, two years ago, and a year ago. It wasn't until this person talked to me on the phone that I finally got in this room.
49:58Thank you. Yeah. And did you ask him to text that person?
50:00He he we were making a video with him today. Okay. Because because a good way you know, your if your client success team, they're the ones who experience all the results.
50:08Right. They gotta get in the habit of being like, hey.
50:10That's really great. You know who needs to hear this? Is your enrollment director.
50:14Because they have no idea what's going on. They don't. Once it's once it's passed, oh my his number.
50:19Right? Because I'm I'm telling you Bro, I'm changing that right now on my team. Because just these like, if if if a is true, b is true.
50:26If a client sees something online or this thing on Reddit or, like, some other one of their clients had a bad experience and refunded, it can throw the rep into a rut. Right? But if that's true, at the same time, if they get the opposite of that Yeah.
50:40It can make their day. And then they're like, that's right. I need get some fucking people in this shit.
50:44Dude. You know? So that's a good thing to because, know, the the CSM team a lot of times, the coaching team,
50:50they're like, uh, the sales teams. You know? They're giving me this.
50:53They're giving me that. Right? Yeah.
50:55So, you know, you gotta kinda ask them to do that one thing for the sales team. The gap. And, also, you look at the prospect or the customer, the the member of my community that joined after three years, right, and three different enrollment directors.
51:08There could be a variety of reasons why that happened, but he basically was like, I didn't join until this person made me believe this. And I'm like, can we do a video about this? I need the whole video.
51:18Right? That that was really good. But I told him, I said, I'm so sorry.
51:21He goes, why would you be sorry? I'm here. I'm happy.
51:23I go, because we robbed you of three years of your life by not serving you better. Mhmm. 100%.
51:28Three years of your life. And I go, imagine if you had joined three years ago, if I had somebody, you know, challenge your belief system,
51:35where would you be in three years? He goes, dude, I'd I'd probably have millions of dollars and this, that, and the other, and I'd have RV parks. And I I'm like, I know.
51:42Yeah. That's why I'm sorry because I we could have done a better job on the front end. A 100%.
51:46Gosh, dude. If you're a business owner who has appointment setters or an outbound sales team, you're gonna wanna hear what I have to say for a second. So a multiple 8 figure business owner texted me the other day, and when he started using dialog.io for the first time, his pickup rates went from 9% to 20%.
52:02So imagine doubling your pickup rates and ultimately the throughput of what your outbound salespeople and centers are gonna get. How does that impact your business? The answer is a lot.
52:10So if you wanna check out Dialogue for a phone sales outbound system, just click the link in the description or just go to Dialogue.
52:18Now back to the podcast. Let's say I wanna start a hard money lending business as an example. Okay.
52:23And I want to hire a closer from you. What do I need to do before I hire a closer? Well, I okay.
52:28So I don't know the hard money lending business.
52:31See, clients that are fixing and flipping houses need money to go buy that house that they found to go out and renovate that property. The same thing is just lending would be the fix and flipper. The lead would be the fix and flipper.
52:42Right. Okay. And then, basically okay.
52:44So, I mean, what would they need to be able to work with us? Yeah. Like, I wanna hire a closer.
52:47I don't wanna be the closer anymore. Well, the main thing is is the a lot of this depends on the lead generation in each industry.
52:54And I don't know how the meta of lead generation is in hard money lending, but let's say if this person was running ads targeting fix fix and flippers with some sort of special offer about how their financing was different, really, all they have to have is, number one, a validated sales process. Right? So that means the owner themselves has proved out that, hey.
53:12I'm closing at 30 to 40%. Okay, and I have the leads coming in. And then, you know, given it's a one or two call process and it's in a transactional environment, transactional means, like, the sales closes in thirty days or less, you would probably need 60 to 80 live calls per month per closer.
53:27Mhmm. So if I have 60 to 80 live calls per month per closer, I can prove to them that, hey, I'm closing these people. Like, there's a validated sales process here.
53:36If I have those things, you're ready to bring somebody on. Now, there's different like, maybe your person is generating the leads themselves like the salesperson is or they're knocking doors or whatever.
53:47It it it really depends industry to industry. Sometimes you might have to pay a base. But no matter what, like, what I can say across any type of business is there needs to be a proof of concept of it actually working, especially if you want a good salesperson because good salespeople have options.
54:00Yeah. And they wanna go into a winning system. They wanna know the car works.
54:03Right? They don't wanna get into the car and, like, they press the gas and it goes 30. They wanna they wanna go a 100.
54:09Right? So it's it's almost think about it this way. In the recruiting marketplace okay.
54:14So you know, like, in marketing. Right? Hormozi is, like, famous for this.
54:17If you want to get, you know, uh, your ads working really well, you put out a great offer. So your vehicle and how good of opportunity that your salesperson has or that you're offering the salesperson, how good the leads are, how many leads they're getting, what the comp structure is, how validated the sales process is, what how many case studies you have.
54:35That is like the offer in the recruiting marketplace. And the better offer you could put out in that marketplace, the better salespeople you're gonna get. And, you know, one quote I really like is every I think it's every hour you spend recruiting saves ten hours managing.
54:53It's something along those lines. Every unit of time you spend recruiting It's so accurate. Ten hours managing.
54:59Like, have you ever had a team? I know. Isn't that good?
55:02It's it's so true, though. Yeah. And I heard that from, uh, Brian Chesky of Airbnb.
55:06So, you know, he's running a big business. But have ever had a team where you're like,
55:10we need better systems. We need better processes. I gotta train these people.
55:13I'm gonna train this person. I'm gonna train this person. And then eventually, you just, like, hire a couple of other people and you raise the pay and you get some new people in there.
55:20All the time. And you're like, dude, don't even need to train these people. I tell people all the time.
55:24You I I get people say, you need better systems. I go, no. You don't.
55:27You need better people. Yes. Because good people will create the systems around them.
55:30Yes. And I I I had an integrator partner years ago, still partners with them, but we don't build anything together anymore. And he would say, Pace, it's systems and processes first.
55:39I go, no. It's good people first. They're gonna build systems that actually work for them, and then we'll duplicate those.
55:45And we fought about this for five, six, seven years. And finally, was just like, I can't work with you. And then I worked with people like Josiah, my current partner.
55:51Now it's like, we just pay people the right amount of money. You hire really good people. Yeah.
55:54One one unit of time recruiting saves 10 units of time managing.
55:58And so the thing is what's crazy about that is, like, when we so we've gone through Savol Evolut. We have 20 full staff recruiters.
56:05They do outbound full cycle. They could do head honing. We also have, like, a bunch of inbound from our network.
56:10And so And this is for your this is for your business specifically where you train salespeople to go out and place them somewhere else. Yeah. Well, this is where we we you know, business owners pay us, and they're like, hey.
56:18I need 10 recruits or I need a recruit or whatever. Right? So we have, like, full staff recruiters.
56:23And that's not just people who come from our my training. That's like, we'll go out and poach. Uh, I mean, we placed, um, I mean, dude, we this isn't even a salesperson.
56:32We placed, like, electricians for this one company. Yeah. So we'll they can do kind of everything, but we specialize in sales.
56:37I didn't know you were doing Yeah. I mean, we're gonna expand in doing Genius. Different things, not just sales.
56:42So probably health care is one. HVAC is another. Bay bay AI proof type of stuff.
56:47Of course. Or there's also labor shortages. Because I'm thinking I have this great model.
56:51How can I if, you know, from first principles, if I had to restart from the very beginning, knowing what I know about ads, call funnels, marketing, you know, all this stuff, sales, and then also how good our recruiting team is, what recruiting markets would I go into that are just, like, ripe for like, they and, you know, HVAC techs, for instance, most of them are baby boomers?
57:10There's a huge labor shortage there. And, essentially, because of all the regulation, there's not a lot of people coming through the schools. Yeah.
57:17You know, that could change in the future, but it's a huge shortage. Anyways, what were we talking about recruiting and managing? Oh, yeah.
57:22So, anyways, our recruiter our recruiting team, we've gone through, like, three evolutions. And it's funny, like, we we were pounding the systems and the training and the interview techniques and this and that. And all it really took to take a recruiting team, I'm not even kidding, 10 x their performance, was just raising the pay from by by, like, 30% per per member.
57:42And the crazy thing is is, like, let's say we were paying 5 to $6 a month. Dude, I'm talking about we just pay them now 8 to $9 a month. And what's nuts is because there's so now we can get so much better people that the actual budget of the department is literally the same.
57:58I think it might be less because they can have more capacity because they're more productive. And so if you think about it, it's like 33% sounds like a lot, but we're talking, like, $3 a month per employee.
58:08Yeah. And to that, like, to you and I, that might not seem like anything like it's gonna make a difference. In the recruiting marketplace, that's like a whole different trough Yeah.
58:16Of people. Like like we were talking about earlier, like, that's like going from talking to somebody who's broke, who wants to lose weight to a high net worth individual. Like, it's a huge I mean, it's 30%.
58:25It gets you in a whole different response category of who you can get from recruiting. So, again, like, I've and I've learned this so I've learned it too many times to where, like, now I feel like I stamped it on my forehead to where I've, like, been trying to turn a department around, and then it's like, oh, these people just aren't good.
58:40It's a human. Yeah. It's a human.
58:42Yeah. I deal with this all the time. I'm like, start over.
58:45Hire hire better people. Yeah. Raise the pay.
58:49Hire better people. Yes. That's it.
58:50And they'll build the the the apartment around themselves rather than sitting there going a really good person walks in and goes, dude, I don't need any of this stuff. I'm gonna build my own thing. You know?
59:00That's so true. Okay. So let's stay on the example of, let's say, hard money lender.
59:05Right? Okay. Because I do a lot of lending.
59:06My audience does a lot of lending as well where you would actually run ads, have people on the calls, all of that kind of stuff.
59:14So this pertains to you. And if I'm gonna recruit really great salespeople, what would you say is the floor of a good salesperson's
59:21com commission or take home pay in one year? Okay. Well, it depends on it could be different for any industry.
59:28Right? But what you would wanna look at is what the app you know, salary, pay scale, whatever. You're not gonna get a good sales guy at $40 a year.
59:34No. No. But you wanna look at what the averages are of that industry and just go to the very top is what you're gonna wanna do.
59:39I mean, you wanna be what I try to be for our sales team is, like, you can't like, you're gonna make the most here if you're good. Right? And so it's pretty simple.
59:48I would wanna pay to the top. Uh, how much of that is base post plus a 100% commission depends on a lot of stuff. Right?
59:54Longer sales cycle and less frequency, like enterprise, is more so on one on one extreme let's look at two extremes. There's different types of sales.
1:00:02There's, like, relational sales. That's like a real estate agent. There's transactional sales, which doesn't mean you're treating your prospects like a transaction.
1:00:08That means that you're closing the deal They're happening faster. In thirty days or less. Right?
1:00:11Then there's enterprise sales, which is like a nine month sale. So on one side, let's say you have enterprise. That's a nine month sales cycle.
1:00:19You might only be getting three leads a month. Right? And you're, like, working these deal.
1:00:24You might get one deal to drop every two months, but they could be million dollar deals. They're probably gonna be 70% base. Heavy base.
1:00:31Yeah. Yeah. And then they're gonna be commission.
1:00:33Whereas, like, the absolute other side is fitness to where these people are taking tons of leads, tons of consults, whether that's in person in gyms or if it's online. And they have tons of leads, tons of consults. They're closing them same day.
1:00:46So low or no base? That can be a 100 well, that should be a 100 commission. So that's kind of the spectrum.
1:00:51So you have to kinda, like, weigh that and see where you sort of fall in that and then just pay at the top. Right? Love that.
1:00:58And so would you say that you could attract a high level talent at a $100 a year? Well, I would say that it depends on the industry.
1:01:05Right? Most cases, probably not. You know?
1:01:08Like, most industries, a salesperson can make 3 to 500. Either way.
1:01:13Really good. Yeah. Like So, like, that's where you would wanna you wanna build your comms to be able to get there.
1:01:18Yeah. I mean, there might be some industry if it's, like, a super easy industry or something like that where your setters or something could make a $100. I mean, that's not bad.
1:01:24But I would say 3 to 500 is, like, what most really good salespeople are looking for, especially right now. What is the difference between a $100,000
1:01:33a year sales guy in the same industry as a $500,000
1:01:36a year sales guy? So I I I look at when I try to recruit because, again, let's go to the let's just go to the recruiting aspect. And and one unit of recruiting saves 10 times managing.
1:01:45Right? And that goes for salespeople too. So just as an aside, we did an analysis, and our best salespeople that we've ever hired in the history of the company, guess how long it took them to ramp up?
1:01:55One day. One day. Literally, they basically, from the first week, were at KPI and never left.
1:02:03Then if you go to just our mid tier people who still made it, they took about a month and a half. Right?
1:02:10So we want those best people. The commonality between all of those people is number one, you want specialized knowledge. Right?
1:02:17So, again, you were know, I was talking about transactional sales. So you want deep experience in the type of sales process that you're recruiting for.
1:02:25And that's very important because my clients, a lot of times, they'll be like, dude, I found this really good salesperson, and they were you know, they sold for Salesforce. And that that's like a prestigious thing if you were, like, one of the best people at Salesforce or whatever. But they're selling Amazon FBA coaching for 5 k.
1:02:39Sometimes that person, they don't work out. Not even because maybe they couldn't. It's just like it's just a different thing.
1:02:45They're not used to, like, the one call close, helping people overcome. It's so emotional. So you want specialized knowledge deep into the actual type of selling process that they're looking for.
1:02:56The second thing you want, which is really important, this is what everybody overlooks, is industry acumen. Okay?
1:03:02So that's like, can I actually speak the language of the market? So let's say you take, like, the most grizzled car sales guy veteran ever, and he goes sells the functional medicine, uh, perimenopause offer that we talked about.
1:03:14Yeah. I mean, he just can't relate to the market because he's not the market. Yeah.
1:03:17Like, part of the reason you can influence your people so well that follow you, whether that's online social media or even your clients or whatever actively buy. Because, like, you're actively doing it, and you were in their shoes, and you've, like, lived their story. Yeah.
1:03:29Right? So you get them, and you can speak the language of that because we all respond to, a tribal language. K?
1:03:36So those are two things. The third thing I look in is, uh, look for is buy in. So buy into the mission, vision, and values.
1:03:41And then I've added a fourth thing, which is really like and this is a hard thing to assess, but it's their level of assertiveness.
1:03:49So, like, how, um, you know, in this personality test, they have, uh, what is it called? Disagreeableness is like a trait.
1:03:56That's really what I'm looking for. And also, like, how centered are they? And an interesting thing that you can look for is very confident people.
1:04:05When they talk, they keep their head relatively still. Okay?
1:04:10Whereas, like, think about somebody who is That's wild. Yeah. Think about You're gonna make me think you're gonna have make me self conscious.
1:04:17I know. Dude, do I learn this? I was self conscious for the week.
1:04:20I was like this. I was like, was stiff. You know?
1:04:23But think about it. A very unconfident person, if they're selling, they're like, doing a lot of this.
1:04:28Yeah. You know, doing this, doing this. So the weird cue is for, like, high status behavior as as they call it, is if you can keep your head still, almost everything else, like, you'll actually, your shoulders will fall back, your your posture will open, all of that stuff.
1:04:45That's the one cue. So you know where I learned this? They teach this in acting.
1:04:50So because in acting, you essentially have to oscillate because in any and there's a really good book called Impro. I'd I'd recommend you read it. Just read this, uh, chapter on status.
1:04:59And it's this acting coach, and it's about him teaching all these actors. And essentially, in acting, it's like you're doing a play or you're doing a scene. In every scene, there's always a play between somebody either being high status and then the other person is trying to push down their status and be more higher status or, like, lower stat you know, everybody's assuming a status in a scene.
1:05:18And that it's that's actually what creates the the dynamic. I mean, is every day, and this happens in every interaction, which is kinda Yeah. Yeah.
1:05:24But that's they teach that in acting to make the acting feel more real. Okay? And so one of the things he teaches for people who are having trouble assuming to be more high status is to keep your head still.
1:05:39Interesting. Isn't that cool? Yeah.
1:05:40So and it's so funny when I learned that. So your recruiters will actually look for this in the process. Well, I needed to I I probably need to teach them this.
1:05:46This is like but what's interesting is when I learned this, I was looking at all our sales guys and the some that are really good versus not really good. And I immediately, the next day, I remember, uh, there was a guy on our team that was struggling. And I watched his call, and there was so much of this, You know?
1:06:01And even watch, like, a podcast interview and you have the sound off, you'll see, like, one person is more still and grounded.
1:06:08And a lot of times, the other person is, like, bobbing their head a I know it's so crazy. That is so crazy. But this this happens very often.
1:06:16What about the sales guys that are struggling? What do you think is the number one trait they're struggling with? So most, uh, well Was it like the way their parents raised them?
1:06:26They're just little bitches? Like Well, there's a lot of things. I try and so this is back to the assertiveness, part of that category is I want them to have positive beliefs about selling.
1:06:35Like, I love sale. I love buying. The more you if you find somebody who loves buying, they're probably good at sales.
1:06:41I love buying. Because they love the sales prod. They love to be sold so that when they're selling somebody, they feel good about it.
1:06:46They feel like if I was receiving this. Yeah. You know, it's almost like their version of the golden rule, treat somebody how I like to be treated.
1:06:52They're like, this is how I like to be treated. I wanna be sold. Like, I wanna be pushed a little bit.
1:06:55I wanna be challenged. So you want somebody who kind of they like to buy, and they don't have any, like, bad sales beliefs. So a lot of the beginners, you know, they're like, sales is bad and, you know, this and that.
1:07:09Used car sales, man. And and I I try I I just avoid that. Like, I have a saying, like, I don't wanna have a Tony Robbins breakthrough with somebody to get them to be able I always tell people, just watch just go watch Tony Robbins.
1:07:18Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
1:07:19Like, if you need to be yelled at Yeah. Go to Ed Mylett. But Don't don't make me do it.
1:07:23We don't you you don't wanna hire for that because it's too big. Like, they have to have a personal transformation to perform. So I'm never gonna hire like, that is a lot of big that's probably the biggest reason why a lot of people can't make it like, can't work out Yeah.
1:07:35In sales. But, you know, for my clients and for me, I mean, I'm not I don't wanna hire those people in the first place. Yeah.
1:07:41So that's a big one. I would say the second one is, like, just the level I mean, I have salespeople. I've had salespeople who I review the call, and I'm like, oh, dude.
1:07:51Like, you didn't diagnose the problem right. Like, you got it wrong.
1:07:55You didn't give them the right solution, but they still fucking closed them. Yeah. You know?
1:07:59And it's just because they're so certain. And I would say, I know it sounds so cliche, but that is usually the biggest, like, x factor that really separates the good people from the people who aren't as good.
1:08:15A lot of good salespeople too are just really emotional, and they're a pain in the ass. And so when I have a client, they're like, dude, I got this person.
1:08:23They're really good. They're, like, amazing. But holy shit.
1:08:26They're so draining. I'll be like, okay. Well, are they breaking any rules?
1:08:29Okay. A little bit of rules. But are they doing anything that's, like, culturally because you don't want somebody who's who's like that, but then they're out of cultural values.
1:08:36Yeah. Because that'll fuck up the rest of the team. Yeah.
1:08:38But as long as they're within cultural values, I'm usually like, yeah. It sounds like you got a good salesperson. Yeah.
1:08:42And, like, you're like, my managers, I joke with them. I'm like, dude, you guys, you know, you guys are just like therapists. Right?
1:08:48You know, my so one of my managers, he he literally calls people. He calls all the reps.
1:08:54He makes them well, he makes them call him right after their last call every single day. And the reason he does that, and I you know, this is like a policy that we do, is because, you know, these people are pissed.
1:09:06They're they're mad about the lead qual they're mad about you know, they're just emotional people. Yeah. And you kinda gotta, like, dust them off.
1:09:12Dude, it's okay. Don't get in your head. There's just five calls today.
1:09:15You got five calls tomorrow, and you just kinda gotta, like, recoup them a little bit because they're emotional. They're volatile type of people. You know, like Dennis Rodman?
1:09:23That type of personality where it's like, every once in a while, he just needs to go to Vegas and just go off the fucking rails. Yes. A lot of great salespeople are like that.
1:09:31And that's why we were talking about, like, they do nicotine. You know? They're like they're like, yeah.
1:09:37I'm not gonna work this weekend. I gotta go get fucked up. It's like Good.
1:09:40Alright, dude. You know, you gotta blow off do you do your shit? You gotta blow off some steam.
1:09:43Let me buy your flake. What's what's interesting is a lot of times and I have a lot of experience with this. And these guys can be good.
1:09:49But the guys who are, like, really, like, they're super serious about the training and the scripts and all the things, and they're, like, obs obsessive about it, but they're, like, very polished dot the i's cross the t guys.
1:10:01They will not outperform the don't wanna call them degenerates, but it's like the guys the guys who have a deep dark black hole. Yeah.
1:10:08Yeah. You know? And that's kinda when I was coming up, uh, if you ask Taylor, when I was selling full time, I had that dude.
1:10:15I don't know where I mean, I I think I know where it came from, but I was just an angry I had a big black hole, and I was filling that with selling units. Yeah.
1:10:25You know? And I was mad. But you gotta kinda know how to balance that over the long time because that'll burn you out too.
1:10:31So you gotta balance So sales sales manager.
1:10:33Yeah. You just said you just laid something down really good. I don't know if my team's doing this.
1:10:38You're you're making me take notes. I wanna go ask my team if they're doing this, having a sales rep call them at the end of the day. What
1:10:44are some activities a sales manager should be doing that most people don't know about? Well, there's mean, let me tell you one that's just very obvious is just running a daily sales meeting every single day and that sales meeting being Early morning? Every morning.
1:10:56Yeah. And that sales meeting should be very good. Like, when I was doing the sales meetings myself, and this even goes back to, like, when I was doing football, I was, like, the team captain, and I would always make sure I had this I had this mentality that this is the most important thing of the day.
1:11:10Practice was the most important thing, and we have to leave better than we came on. Right? So there's this, like, convergent importance on this moment.
1:11:20And that's how I think of the sales, uh, the sales team meetings because we run through projections, then usually forty minutes of it is just training. And a lot of times, we're reviewing game tape.
1:11:29And there's a lot of learning that can come from that. So they have to leave essentially better than they came on.
1:11:35And I take it very I mean, I have, like, a very serious intentionality with that meeting. And most most employees, the reason they hate meetings is because the meetings are not intentional.
1:11:47Right? And the fact is, if you only have intentional meetings, you don't even need that many meetings. Right.
1:11:52Because there's only so many things you could be intentional about. But that is one thing that is super, super important. And, like, I have a lot of people who are like, dude, I've I I hated meetings till I joined this company because they feel like they can get better after every single meeting.
1:12:05So I know that's a basic one. That's one. The main thing the sales managers fuck up is you bring them on, and they wanna give you advice on your marketing.
1:12:13They wanna redo the script. They wanna play with the CRM. Do all these and and looks good.
1:12:17They're, like, doing all these projects. And the reason they're doing that is because they're used to winning deals. Right?
1:12:23And that's like a good reinforcement cycle. They get the attaboy. They get the dopamine, whatever.
1:12:28But now they're in a position where it's not a selfish thing, which I'm not saying salespeople are selfish, really. They're serving. But what I mean by that is like, if you're a salesperson, you're tunnel vision on the next deal.
1:12:38You're like, where's the next deal? Because you can only be doing two things. You can be generating a call with a qualified prospect or doing a call with a qualified prospect.
1:12:45Those are it's the beauty of sales. It's the only two things you can do. Right?
1:12:49So when you go to sales manager, though, you have to be selfless, not selfish. Right?
1:12:54You have to not have tunnel vision. You have to be like, what is everything going on? And so a lot of times, though, they they wanna, you know, do a project.
1:13:03They wanna do the CRM, do this, or migrate you to this CRM or whatever. So they can kinda, like, have some sort of attaboy. I did this or whatever.
1:13:11Really, the best ones, all they do is they clear their calendar, and their entire day is just helping all their salespeople in the field. You know?
1:13:20So there's a couple ways that happens. The number one way, and I just, like, stamp this on their forehead, is their job is QC. All they should be doing is reviewing game tape of all their reps all day, every day.
1:13:31We also have a system where we can, like, on Zoom, see essentially every single call that's going on at once. And so we can, like, plug in, plug in here, plug in here.
1:13:39So, like, that's a way one of my managers does it. So he's jumping in the lives? So what he'll do is he'll, like, wait to the close and then kinda, like, nudge them a little bit.
1:13:47We don't you don't wanna send them too much stuff Yeah. On on message as they're as they're on the call because then they're gonna get out of the present moment. But sometimes it's like, let me send a couple nudges here.
1:13:57Right? Or he'll call them right after and give them some advice. So that's a way do a lot of game tape.
1:14:03Send them the game tape. Uh, also be there to where if a prospect maybe gets stuck on a deal, hey. Book them with me.
1:14:09We'll close them together. Oh, that's great. Right?
1:14:11Or, hey. You fucked up this deal. You need to book it with sales rep number two and then split deal that.
1:14:19Mhmm. So, you know, what's interesting when I went to, uh, Cardone's office and, you know, talking to Jared and talking to all them and seeing how they do it. Shout out Jared.
1:14:26Lot of their yeah. A lot of their deals that they close are split deals. So where a salesperson gets it to nine out of 10, and then, like, the person just needs to see a different face Yeah.
1:14:36And get a little bit more familiar. Is even a different gender, weirdly. Yeah.
1:14:39It it just could be anything. And it just gives them, like, a okay. There's multiple cool people at this company.
1:14:44They seem legit. You know? This other person hopped in to help my account, you know, whatever.
1:14:48And sometimes just hearing the same pitch from somebody else, they just buy. So I you you know, the manager needs to be there to try to get the team to work together. Hey.
1:14:55You can't like, you fuck this deal up. You burn this. I'm gonna reach out and have this person close it, and you guys are gonna split.
1:15:02Yeah. Right? Love that.
1:15:03So stuff like that, um, or book them with the manager. Uh, when they're doing the call reviews, you know, naturally, if you ever review a bad sales call from your team, it's, like, infuriating.
1:15:13You wanna throw your computer out the window. So you channel that anger. You call the prospect, and it's like, hey, dude.
1:15:19You know? Do you have, you know, do you have five minutes to chat? I just reviewed your call.
1:15:22So and so missed a really key point that I think is massively gonna help you in your business. Do you have five minutes? Because I just wanna share with you that even if you don't work with us.
1:15:29They're always like, for sure. Or if they don't answer, I just send that in text format. They always respond.
1:15:33Because they wanna know what was missed, and then, like, I I kinda created open I imagine a lot of sales directors or managers are not doing most of They don't do that. And so this is all in field stuff. Yeah.
1:15:42Right? Because they're what they're trying do is they're trying to find other projects that are not sales related to get that dope in environment or whatever. Sitting down and reviewing game sitting down and watching your team through game tape, fuck up deals all day, it it it sucks.
1:15:56Yeah. It sucks. But it's like the boring work that needs to be done.
1:16:00So we call that a manager callback to where you review the call. You're like, this obviously is blown. Manager calls them and either just gives them kinda, like, resets them a little bit and sort of repitches them, which will increase the probability for the follow-up.
1:16:14A lot of times, it's a five, ten minute conversation. They're like, dude, I can't believe you called. No company does this.
1:16:18Whatever. They'll just give you 10 to $20 like that. I used to do it when I was a manager, and I was like, you you we're doing over 8 figures at the time.
1:16:26And I was like, where can I spend five minutes and collect $20? Yeah. So I was like, if I'm gonna be doing and if I'm gonna be sitting there brooding about how pissed I am at this call, I could either do you know, send all my notes to the rep and be like, you should've done this.
1:16:40You should've done that, or I'll just call the prospect. Be like, this is what you should've done. It changes the whole culture, and then you're willing step in the field.
1:16:47And then yeah. And so, you know, uh, Napoleon. And so he was obviously Gangster.
1:16:52One of the greatest greatest military general of all time. They called him the little corporal. And the reason they called him that is because he would always be on the front lines.
1:17:01Yeah. Right? Like, he would man the artillery sometimes.
1:17:03He got his horse shot out from under him 21 times. You know? So they called it a little corporal.
1:17:10Like, there's the famous painting of him. Nobody wanted to cross the bridge when they're bombing with artillery, and he grabs the French flag, and he runs across the bridge. It was like almost complete complete suicide.
1:17:18So I think about that, and that's kinda how you want your sales managers to be is they shouldn't be you shouldn't be booking them calls. Like, I don't I'm not saying book calls on their calendar, but they should almost be paying their salary by 10 x by assisting the deals. And and as a salesperson, the best way have you read the inner game of tennis?
1:17:36Yeah. Okay. So, like, that book shows you that essentially, you know, getting, like, vague critiques, it really doesn't help a lot.
1:17:43What really helps actually is seeing what good looks like. And so what a lot of times what we do, and even we do this to an extent probably too much, is we review the game tape.
1:17:52You did this wrong. You did this wrong. You did this wrong.
1:17:54I'm not saying that's not helpful. What's more helpful is me closing somebody myself and being like, you see what I did here? You see what I did here?
1:18:01You see what I did here? Also, what's more exciting for a meeting? Beating somebody down.
1:18:06You did this wrong. You did this wrong. You did this wrong.
1:18:08Or be like, guys, let's review so and so's clothes from yesterday. They freaking killed it. We drilled on this thing.
1:18:13They did it perfectly. Just check out this entire thing, and look how well they did. And everybody's like, yeah.
1:18:18They did so well. They're watching, like, him handle this objection, whatever. And then it's a positive thing.
1:18:22That person feels good. And then also, everybody else who's lower than that person who's not doing as well, they're like, oh, because, you know, every salesperson good looks like. Salesperson's like, oh, I think the number one guy just gets the best leads.
1:18:33But then when they're like but they're also like, is he doing something that I'm not doing? Always. They're always like that.
1:18:38They're reviewing each other's calls. So that's the easiest way to influence them too. Show them what good looks like.
1:18:44And just as I say in the inner game of tennis, it's like, you wanna model that picture of, like, what's good. And it keeps them also forward thinking, more positive.
1:18:52And so a great thing to do is when you if you have a manager. And if they just get, like, a closed deal every two weeks, you could do break that call down in three sections. Day one discovery, day two pitch, day three close.
1:19:03And you're showing them what good looks like. They're going around and giving takeaways,
1:19:07and that's almost way more effective. The other call reviews are important too because, like, they gotta see their they gotta see their blind spots, but that's how you wanna think about it. Yeah.
1:19:15So good. I I had a big problem stepping out of my company. I still have this problem now.
1:19:20Yeah. Not in sub two, but in my real estate business, I still am addicted to being on the calls. Yeah.
1:19:27I think it's massive. I think it's is what spurs on a lot of activity. But when should a founder be out of the calls and be more of a manager?
1:19:37When do you know that it's time to get out of the way? Well,
1:19:40obviously, the first step is once the constraint in your business is availability, which because, like, you're maxed out, you can't grow the revenue because you have no more time, that's when you should bring the salesperson in.
1:19:50Right? Now you're a sales manager. Then you're doing all the stuff I just mentioned, which still means you're on the front lines ish, but you're not taking calls.
1:19:58You don't have appointments. You're kinda just managing the team a little bit. And I did this I mean, I was doing you know, I was the CEO of the company.
1:20:05We were doing well over 10,000,000 a year, so I'm managing other executives. And, you know, when I would sit down to do my call QC or a rep hits me up and they're like, dude, can you call this person to fuck this up? Like, I could still do that.
1:20:15It's not like it's taking all of my time, but a sales manager could do way more. So then you're into sales management. But then once you have a good sales manager, I would say as a CEO, you know, you're pretty much out of it.
1:20:26You don't have to do it. But I'll just be honest, like, to give you an example, like, I I still wanna do it on the same way as you.
1:20:33Like, if I if I take a sales call randomly, sometimes I'll take it with, like, friends, you know, or people I know. When I close a deal, dude, I'm, like, ready to run through a wall the rest of my day. You know, you're just like, this is awesome.
1:20:43Like, you know, I remember And I bet you almost like it's almost like respects you even more too. Yeah. And then we'll review that call.
1:20:48And so I'll give you an example. Like, I told you, we're we're launching I I don't know which which we're gonna go after first, but it's either gonna be cash pay health care and placing, like, nurses and MPs and doctors and stuff like that.
1:20:59Or and then we can cross sell the salespeople in those businesses. Or we're gonna be doing HVAC or a similar home service and placing techs or placing comfort advisers. And those are kind of the techs are kind of fulfillment and setters in that business, and then the comfort advisers are pure sales.
1:21:14And so when I go out and validate those divisions, I'm just gonna take the calls myself. Yeah. Right?
1:21:19Because I want I wanna, like, I wanna see who these people are. You know? And, also, like, if I take the calls, I'm gonna get ideas that nobody's gonna have because I'm gonna be like, oh, okay.
1:21:30Like, they said this. We need to change the marketing to that. Because I can think all across the business.
1:21:34I'm not just thinking about this. So I'm gonna get so much intel through there, and it's gonna be fun.
1:21:39You know? It's like talking to your one And you rally the troops. Like, when other people watch you do the close, they're just like, wow.
1:21:46Okay. One, it's easy. Two, that's what mastery looks like, like what you were talking about earlier.
1:21:50But three, like, I'm not working for a a guy that's a pussy that's not gonna get on the phone. Yeah. It's like Elon's sleeping on the factory
1:21:56in the middle of the Tesla factory, which, by the way work their guts out. He he he moved his mattress out, like, from the office right outside of the office purposely so people could see him, which, by the way, like he's later said, like, he related that to Napoleon. And that's how he got that idea to do that.
1:22:12I mean, I think it was also kinda, like, just who he is. So there needs to be a degree of that. It, like, fires it up because you're not above it.
1:22:20But also the the kind of the prerequisite of doing this and what makes you excited to do it versus dreading to do it is I think what's really important is you gotta have a business where you love your customers. Yeah. You know?
1:22:30It's hard to have a business where you're like, man, if I had an event, I'd wanna, like, hide. Yeah. You know?
1:22:35And when you can have that, it makes it a lot easier because there's a pool to it, you know, not a push. If you enjoyed this podcast, you're also probably gonna like this podcast I also did recently that you can check out by clicking the screen right here.
The Hook

The bait, then the rug-pull.

Cole Gordon opens with a number — one hundred and fifty million dollars in cash collected — and then spends the next 82 minutes explaining exactly how it was done. This is not a motivational podcast. It is a dissection.

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