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Cole Gordon · YouTube

Meet The Genius That Industry Leaders Hire For $100M Launches

Jason Fladlien has done $250M in webinar sales. Here is every framework, in order, from the $7 ebook that started it to the $100M launch that broke the record.

Posted
yesterday
Duration
Format
Interview
educational
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Big Idea

The argument in one line.

The single biggest lever in one-to-many selling is not persuasion technique but aggressive pre-emptive risk removal: the seller who takes on the most downside before the pitch lands will always out-convert the one who relies on objection handling after the close.

Who This Is For

Read if. Skip if.

READ IF YOU ARE…
  • You run or consult on webinars, challenges, or live launches and want to understand why your conversion is lower than it should be.
  • You are building an offer and want to understand why proof, price anchoring, and risk removal matter more than presentation polish.
  • You are a closer or sales trainer who wants to see how elite one-to-many and one-to-one selling share the same psychological spine.
  • You have done your first few webinars and hit a ceiling and this episode explains what the ceiling is and how to break through it.
SKIP IF…
  • You are looking for a plug-and-play webinar script as this is strategic frameworks and case studies, not a template.
  • Your audience is B2B SaaS or enterprise as the examples are all consumer info-product and digital course launches.
TL;DR

The full version, fast.

Jason Fladlien has done $250M+ in sales purely through webinars and live presentations, consulting for the biggest names in online marketing. His core thesis: the offer and the proof matter far more than the presentation, and the most powerful thing any seller can do is remove risk so aggressively that saying yes costs less than saying no. He walks through six landmark promotions: the 48-hour report, the ASM affiliate record ($9.8M in 8 days), a live Shopify stage pitch, the Launchpad software webinar ($1.29M in 47 minutes), the crypto wiggle ($57.9M in 226 days), and Alex Hormozi $100M book launch, extracting from each the precise mechanism that made it work.

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Voices

Who's talking.

00:15guestJason Fladlien
00:00hostCole Gordon
Chapters

Where the time goes.

00:00 – 18:00

01 · Iman Gadzhi Launch: Frame Setting and Price Psychology

PowerPoint over production. Announcing the price upfront on a price-sensitive audience. The ambiguity effect: people fear an unknown number more than a stated high one.

18:00 – 38:00

02 · Repitch and the Go-Long Philosophy

Stopping after the formal presentation is the biggest mistake in launches. Jason 2-4 hour post-presentation sessions, the marshmallow experiment reframe, pacing and tonality, the stern father authority frame.

38:00 – 58:00

03 · The 48-Hour Report: Agreement Frame Origins

The 2007-2008 first webinar, the agreement frame born from discomfort with bait-and-switch, the demo pitch, the rule of one, commitment and consistency theory.

58:00 – 1:25:00

04 · Amazon Selling Machine: Risk Removal and Price Signaling

All-time affiliate record. $9.8M in 8 days on ASM5, $67M over 6 launches. Bonus engineering, the $1M bank letter guarantee, why raising price from $3,500 to $5,000 increased conversion, the Launchpad webinar at $1.29M in 47 minutes.

1:25:00 – 1:50:00

05 · Live Stage Selling: The Ezra Firestone Shopify Pitch

Choreographed stage interruption. Stand-up wave-closing, loss framing, eliciting decision-making criteria, the two-word How long? pattern interrupt, future-pacing disappointment, spouse and parent objection closes.

1:50:00 – 2:10:00

06 · The Wiggle: Dan Hollings Crypto Launch

$57.9M in 226 days from 18 beta testers at $10,000 each. Legitimate scarcity, live third-party portfolio proof, the crypto-as-real-estate-with-perfect-tenant metaphor.

2:10:00 – 2:17:44

07 · Alex Hormozi: Full-Stack Excellence

The $100M book launch. Jason consulted on both Leads and the latest launch. Football team metaphor for full-stack dominance. VIP upsell price logic. Price-anchoring deliverables to consulting equivalent.

Atomic Insights

Lines worth screenshotting.

  • The biggest sales lesson in $250M of selling: the more you remove risk, the more you sell and remove it 100% and you get a 100% close rate.
  • If you do not announce the price in advance, people assume the worst and stating a high price upfront creates comfort, not resistance.
  • Pre-emptive objection listing that surfaces 15 objections in the first 3 slides is a pattern interrupt because literally nobody else does it.
  • The agreement frame creates commitment before a single persuasive word lands and if you deliver the lesson they feel obligated to buy.
  • Stopping after the formal presentation is the biggest mistake in launches and the more you pitch past it the more people who should buy will buy.
  • The demo pitch removes implementation risk more effectively than any guarantee language.
  • A $1M bank letter is more persuasive than a better-than-money-back guarantee because it shows intention rather than stating it.
  • Raising price on ASM from $3,500 to $5,000 increased conversion because price is the number one signal of quality.
  • Proof that is not deployed is worthless and Tony Blair testimony went unused in a client webinar for years.
  • Metaphor is the soul of pitching and the crypto-as-real-estate metaphor did more to close the wiggle offer than any feature statement.
  • Running a paid beta with verifiable third-party results is the only way to generate proof a cynical market cannot dismiss.
  • Future-pacing disappointment after the close increases stick rate, completion, and referrals.
  • Scarcity only works when the reason why is legitimate and 100 spots on the Launchpad webinar sold out in 47 minutes because limiting enrollment was operationally true.
  • Selling at scale is better than one-to-one because while person A is processing, persons B, C, and D are trying the same logic on for size.
  • The two-word pattern interrupt that breaks any I need to think about it objection is: How long?
  • Indirect communication via story creates behavior change that direct instruction cannot because it bypasses the resistance reflex.
  • You can make people excited to be sold to if the frame is set correctly and the audience clapped when Jason stepped in to steal Ezra pitch.
  • The most expensive option is always to do nothing and the right language makes inaction feel like the biggest financial risk on the table.
  • Alex Hormozi is the only person who has achieved excellence simultaneously across advertising, funnel, offer, pitch, fulfillment, social, and paid and that combination is why $100M was possible.
  • In 2026 you almost never need to teach the how and you should show people what good information looks like and let AI and YouTube handle the procedural steps.
Takeaway

The Sell Is in the Setup, Not the Close

WHAT TO LEARN

The reason most pitches underperform is not the close but every decision made before the close: how risk was framed, what proof was shown, and whether the audience objections were surfaced before the content began.

01Iman Gadzhi Launch
  • Announcing a high price in advance creates comfort, not resistance, because the audience fear of the unknown is worse than the stated number.
  • Stating explicitly that you are going to sell something lets the audience lower their guard rather than spending the session waiting for a trap.
02Repitch and the Go-Long Philosophy
  • The formal presentation is the beginning of the pitch, not the end, and the highest-converting exchanges happen in the open Q&A that follows.
  • Indirect communication through story creates behavior change that direct instruction cannot because it bypasses the resistance reflex.
  • Pacing means meeting the audience energy level first, then gradually elevating it toward the state where they are most receptive.
03The 48-Hour Report
  • The agreement frame converts potential buyers into participants in a commitment before persuasion even begins.
  • The rule of one removes choice fatigue and makes the outcome feel achievable which increases purchase confidence.
  • The demo pitch removes implementation risk more effectively than any guarantee language.
04Amazon Selling Machine
  • Risk arbitrage means absorbing downside that feels massive to the buyer but is manageable for the seller and this single principle drives more conversion than any technique.
  • Raising price when a product genuinely improves is the most credible way to communicate that the improvement is real.
  • Customer webinars pitched to existing successful buyers are the highest-converting webinar format possible and the most underused.
05Live Stage Selling
  • When the frame is set correctly audiences can be genuinely excited to be sold to and the clapping reaction to Jason stealing the pitch demonstrates this is not a fantasy.
  • The two most powerful words in a stalled close are how long? and they force the prospect to articulate a decision-making process they do not actually have.
  • Future-pacing disappointment after the close is what ensures the buyer shows up, does the work, and becomes a referral source.
06The Wiggle
  • Legitimate scarcity that limits enrollment for operationally real reasons out-converts artificial urgency every time because sophisticated buyers can feel the difference.
  • A well-engineered metaphor with no logical attack surface does more conversion work than any feature or benefit list because it creates understanding and understanding eliminates fear.
  • Running a paid beta with all results tracked in third-party software creates the only proof structure that cynical mass-market audiences cannot dismiss.
07Alex Hormozi Full-Stack Excellence
  • Full-stack excellence across every business function is what produces a $100M launch and most operators achieve depth in one area at the expense of all others.
  • Price-anchoring every deliverable to its consulting equivalent using real invoiced dollar amounts makes the offer price feel proportionally small regardless of the absolute number.
Glossary

Terms worth knowing.

Agreement Frame
A pre-pitch structure where the seller sets explicit conditions for doing business: if I give you the best lesson you should feel obligated to buy, creating commitment before persuasion begins.
Ambiguity Effect
The cognitive bias where people default to the known option when the alternative is unquantified, even if the unknown could be better, eliminated by pre-announcing price and offer details.
Frame
The contextual lens through which an audience interprets everything you say; can be set intentionally or defaulted into accidentally, but is always present.
Repitch
The extended Q&A and selling session that continues after the formal presentation ends, often 2-4 hours, where the highest-converting exchanges happen.
Demo Pitch
A live in-the-moment demonstration of the core promise during the pitch itself, such as creating a product from scratch in front of the audience or showing a real funded bank account.
Risk Arbitrage
Identifying risk that feels large to the buyer but is actually low to the seller, then absorbing it, including ad spend guarantees, business buybacks, and verified bank accounts.
Beta Launch
A paid small-group test of an offer where all participant results are tracked in third-party verifiable software and used as proof in the subsequent public launch.
The Wiggle
Dan Hollings name for the grid-bot crypto trading mechanism that makes small gains repeatedly on price volatility, the shorthand that made the concept sellable to a mass audience.
Pre-emptive Objection Listing
Naming every major objection the audience holds in the opening minutes of the presentation without resolving them, to clear defensiveness and request an open mind.
Future-Pacing Disappointment
Telling buyers after the close that the road ahead will be difficult specifically to set realistic expectations, reduce buyer remorse, and increase follow-through.
Customer Webinar
A webinar pitched exclusively to existing buyers of a product who have an established identity as customers and a track record of results, the highest-converting webinar format possible.
Price Anchor
A higher reference price shown before the offer price so the actual investment feels proportionally smaller, for example beta participants paid $10,000 so group access at $2,500 feels like a steep discount.
Resources

Things they pointed at.

00:15channelAlex Hormozi
00:15channelIman Gadzhi
00:15channelTony Robbins
00:15channelDean Graziosi
00:15channelRussell Brunson
58:00productAmazon Selling Machine (ASM)
2:06:00productThe Wiggle / Dan Hollings crypto course
1:25:00productEzra Firestone Shopify course
2:06:00toolClickFunnels ↗
41:00productCole Gordon one-on-one audit CTA
1:39:00productScotland event CTA
Quotables

Lines you could clip.

57:00
“The biggest sales lesson in nineteen years and $250M in sales: the more we can remove risk, the more we will sell. If we could remove it 100%, we would have a 100% close rate.”
Thesis in two sentences, no context needed, citable stat attached→ IG reel cold open↗ Tweet quote
1:54:00
“The metaphor is the soul of pitching. No metaphor is logical, it is just a way for people to understand something, but they will step into it.”
Counterintuitive framing, punchy delivery, standalone→ TikTok hook↗ Tweet quote
14:00
“If you do not state it out loud, people assume the worst. When you flat out say I am going to sell you something, they let their guard down.”
Goes against conventional wisdom, short, usable by anyone who sells anything→ newsletter pull-quote↗ Tweet quote
22:00
“You can sell very hard, very aggressively and have people enjoy the process so much that the ones who do not purchase wish they could.”
Bold claim, vivid vision, polarizing in the right direction→ IG reel cold open↗ Tweet quote
1:20:00
“Proof that is not deployed is worthless.”
Five words, followed immediately by the Tony Blair story which makes a perfect 30-second clip→ TikTok hook↗ Tweet quote
1:27:00
“If you frame it properly, people are excited to be sold to.”
One sentence, counterintuitive, standalone principle→ IG reel cold open↗ Tweet quote
Topic Map

Where the conversation goes.

00:00 – 18:00denseFrame psychology and price transparency
18:00 – 38:00densePitch pacing, repitching, tonality, authority frames
38:00 – 58:00denseAgreement frame, demo pitch, rule of one, commitment and consistency
58:00 – 1:25:00denseRisk removal, price signaling, bonus engineering, customer webinars
1:25:00 – 1:50:00denseLive stage closing techniques, loss framing, objection elicitation
1:50:00 – 2:10:00denseBeta-to-proof-to-launch, metaphor engineering, legitimate scarcity
2:10:00 – 2:17:44steadyFull-stack offer analysis, price anchoring, AI deliverables
The Script

Word for word.

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metaphoranalogystory
00:00If you look at all the top brands in our industry, so people like Alex Ramosy, Iman Gazi, Tony Robbins, Dean Graziosi, Russell Brunson, and so many more. Well, all of them have generated millions of dollars doing is selling through live presentations or webinars. And another thing they all have in common is they've all worked with one webinar expert who sold $250,000,000 purely through webinars, and his name is Jason Flagin.
00:21You've done one to many selling whether that's webinars, live presentations, challenges at the million dollar level. You've made 10,000,000 off of that, 50,000,000 off of that, even consulted some of the biggest brands in the in the industry, like Tony Dean, Harbose, Iman Gazzi, etcetera, at the 100,000,000 level.
00:38Um, so I wanna walk through the levels going through 7 figures all to 9 figures in one to many selling type of style. But first, just because this is the most recent one that's at least notable, I want you to talk to me about how you got working with Iman Gazzi and what did that look like.
00:55And, also, what was different about that than maybe other selling type of environments
01:00that you've been in? Oh, yeah. So this is fun because Iman represents a younger audience typically.
01:08Although, they're older actually demographically if you map it out who we reached. But we were reaching about a million people on a launch which is insane.
01:17And everything about it was different. So the fundamentals were there but how they showed up was completely different than any launch I've ever experienced in my life. In in what way?
01:26Oh, God. Every way. So, when you're doing YouTube live as your delivery channel, you get a different kind of attitude from the people that are showing up.
01:36So you get these live comments that everybody can see on YouTube and people that are on YouTube are also more distracted and Iman is such a big name to the younger audience on YouTube that they show up kinda like how my kids show up.
01:50Like, we gotta like get them to check a little bit. And they're very price sensitive Uh-huh.
01:55But there's a lot of them. And if you can communicate to them in a way they've never heard before, which is what I was doing a lot of, you can switch a lot of light bulbs on, which was really exciting. Talking about switching light bulbs, I want you to explain to people, because we were talking about this a little bit before.
02:10Like, what are frames and reframes? Yeah. And then as an example,
02:15you mentioned, like, price or distraction
02:18or certain light bulbs or belief shifts you had to switch on. Yep. So then how do you apply that psychology to those people?
02:25Which is like my favorite thing. Yeah. So the way the deal with Iman came about is he was referred to me.
02:31This is pretty much how I get all my business these days is purely on referral. I'm in this weird space, Cole, where there's maybe 25 people that would use my services.
02:42But if they use my services, it's impossible for them not to make a whole bunch of money. So I'm really good in these launch environments when there's hundreds of thousands of people to millions of people, large audiences, challenges, webinars and how do you take somebody in that situation and get the highest conversion rate out of it in the most ethical and empowering possible.
03:02So Iman comes to me through a referral and these guys are a month out on the first launch. We did three launches in one year. Mhmm.
03:10Each one bigger than the last. And there's about twenty nine days until the launch comes and they're like, okay, what should we do? So I start as a consultant.
03:18Right? We have this idea. We've done these launches.
03:21What are your thoughts? And because I have done so many launches over the last nineteen years, I do have unique insights that a lot of people just aren't aware of in these scenarios. And so the first thing they were wondering is, do we do like a big production style launch with the cameras behind us and the full motion and the multi shot and like an Alex from Ozi style launch like he did in the last book launch?
03:42Or do we do like a PowerPoint intense heavy launch? And I told those guys that I would recommend they do a PowerPoint intensive launch for their challenge because there's the least amount of things that can go wrong.
03:56Least variables. And it is actually still in my opinion the most effective way that you can create conversion in most situations.
04:05Mhmm. Because
04:07what at the end of the day when you're doing any of these launches, you have to take whatever the market's belief is. Like what's the constraints? What are the three to five constraints that would stop them from saying yes when they should say yes?
04:19Right. And then that's what the presentations end up being is a removal of those constraints. And the most effective way you will remove those is through showing information in the right condition.
04:29And visuals, PowerPoints, those are typically the best way in order to do that. So that was the first decision we made is we're just gonna build a lot of slides.
04:38And I taught them the way that I do slides which is different than everybody else. I think more effective than everybody else. We can break all that down if we want to.
04:46And then the second thing is Iman's audience is super price sensitive. So the highest that they'd ever sold in their life was a thousand dollars Mhmm.
04:56Which to that audience is like a million dollars. Right. And so I told them immediately, we gotta bump the price up.
05:04And they did. And then even better is how we framed it. So like this is the first frame.
05:09I said, Iman, when you go out there on day one of the challenge, because we're not even gonna pitch until later on. The first day is just kinda setting the overall tone and frame and such. I said, tell them that you will be making an offer and it is by far the most expensive thing that you have ever sold to the audience.
05:24Audience. Mhmm. And he did and he nailed it.
05:27Like he sold it so good. He's like, oh, I'll show you. And so he's like, it's gonna be super expensive.
05:31And so that's how we set this up. So professional, we didn't do that.
05:36We did PowerPoint. Higher price point on these launches, and then framing the price right up front that this is gonna be a significant investment to juxtapose all the free stuff that we're gonna get.
05:48So this is kinda how we eased into this first launch. So most people might be scared to do that. Right?
05:53Because it seems counterintuitive.
05:54Mhmm. So what's like the psychology behind why that works and also the language you need to couple with that to make it work?
06:02Yeah. So it's such a funny thing about how the human brain works. It's
06:07if you don't state it out loud, people assume the worst. So if you don't say I'm gonna sell you something on these challenges or on these webinars, then they are suspicious.
06:19What's the angle? What's the manipulation that he's doing on me to sell me? But then when you flat out say, I'm gonna sell you something, then they're like, okay.
06:27I can let my guard down. I probably won't buy. This is the thinking of the market.
06:32Right. But at least I know the deal. I know this guy's gonna come here and try to convince me to buy and I'm going to resist.
06:38And then the second thing is if you don't state the number, then there's this uneasiness. So the audience can never feel comfortable in a launch very easily with all these unknowns.
06:50Okay? So there's a principle, this cognitive bias where like if you and your friends are trying to find a restaurant and you pull up this new thing and it's like no reviews on Yelp but it might be promising, most people will not go to it.
07:03They'll instead default to the known, to the familiar, to what's comfortable even if it's average. Mhmm. Because the fear of the unknown is so scary even when the consequences are minimum.
07:15Like we go to a restaurant that's not great, we have a good story to tell. If we go to the restaurant it's the new hidden gem, now we're cool and we have status. And so a lot of people just can't deal with ambiguity.
07:25This is called the ambiguity effect. So we remove the ambiguity. And here's what's great.
07:29When you overstate the problem, the brain tends to take it back. So they're gonna say, oh, well, it can't be that expensive.
07:38Like, what's expensive? And now, you're actually getting them to feel more comfortable with the price by exaggerating
07:46how much it's gonna be. Yeah. Is there a way language wise you would prefer to do that?
07:51Oh, totally. So I I like to
07:54you gotta say with confidence first of all. Yeah. So you gotta own it and Iman did that beautifully.
07:58It like we laughed like, oh yeah, this shit's gonna be really expensive. Right? And then they're like, oh, I I wonder how expensive it's gonna be.
08:05Now it's a positive framing. But essentially, the language is, listen, I'm gonna show you how to do this on your own for free and then I'm gonna show you a way we can do this together if you decide to invest.
08:16And if you can invest, then hey, you have to do it for free. That's your only option.
08:21Now if you can invest, then it's just a decision of whether it makes more sense to invest or to not invest. And now the the language is essentially you are a loser if the only option you have is to do it without spending money.
08:37Uh-huh. Which is true. If you're a right fit person for whatever you're selling like the audience is a right fit for it, literally the most expensive option would be to not invest.
08:48And then if it's worth doing, you would still do it but not invest. But ideally, it's worth doing and it makes sense to invest, then investing is the least expensive option out of all of them. Nice.
08:57So I wanna move on to another launch. But before I do Yeah.
09:01A little bit deeper, because I know there was a few fun things that happened during that. So as the launch was going on, I know there was a time where people were demanding that you came back.
09:09Yeah. They're like, where is Jason? So explain why you were even like, how were you kind of involved?
09:14What like because you were doing a repitch. Right? So what's a repitch?
09:17How were you involved? Kinda how did that dynamic happen? And then I wanna talk about a few objections they had, then we'll move on to the next one.
09:23Yeah. So the biggest mistake people make during these launches
09:27is they get the ball on the one yard line and then they go to the locker room. What I mean by that is you pay for the lead, you do all the pre launch stuff, you get them on there live, you present for an hour, hour and a half with the formal slides and then maybe you take a few questions and you call it a day, which is insane.
09:47Because like day one, have 80,000 people on live. And I'm gonna continue to go until I feel like nobody has anything left to ask anymore.
09:57Mhmm. So this could be two or three or four hours just after the presentation is done because we lose nothing if you do this correctly, we only stand to gain and the only cost involved is the time that it takes.
10:12And it's like, god, if we get them this far and they're this committed and then we leave when they're still interested, like we have done them no favors. So this is a mistake everybody is making is it's hard to go too long in this situation as long as you know what you're doing.
10:27And so on day one when we're not even selling anything, I'm still with that audience after Iman's formal presentation is done, he brings me in and then I do two three hours with the audience on day one. Mhmm.
10:39And then day two which is when we pitch. By the way, when they came to me, they were thinking I'm pitching on day three or day four. I think it was day four on a five day challenge that they were thinking of pitching.
10:48And I was immediately like, we should move this up to day two because the offer's good enough that they could understand the value of it and be ready to make a purchasing decision on day two. And so to those guys credit, unlike a lot of clients that pay me and then don't listen to me, these guys listen to me really well and they moved it to day two.
11:09So on day two we're pitching and so I come in and do like three hours more of pitching on day two and then three hours more on day three and three hours more on day four. Cool, it blows my mind how few people like if all they did was hire me to come in and pitch for them, how much more money they would make.
11:28But everybody thinks that the presenters also gotta be the pitch person and because they're done presenting and then they go into the pitch, they're too tired and so they don't see what I've been known to be true in terms of making money which is the more you pitch, the more likely you're gonna get the people who should buy to buy.
11:45Yeah. And they liked it so much they were asking where you were the next day. So this is Jedi level.
11:50Like my young inspiring closers out there, this is the ultimate level you can get to. Right?
11:56This took me twelve years to master. But there's a way and I've proven it over and over again where the pitching can be so valuable that people will want to be pitched because it is like an educational course that they would buy.
12:14It makes them better and it makes them more likely to buy. And that's the level of the game that I have ascended to at this point in time.
12:23It's I still can't believe it to be honest with you, but there's a way where you can sell very hard, very aggressively and have people enjoy the process so much and the ones who purchase purchase and the ones who don't wish they could purchase and they can't get enough of you. So this is like a coaching session with all the value of coaching but also a selling session with all the hard hitting sales closes that you could imagine.
12:49And I employed hundreds of those closes throughout, you know, these four days that I was selling. Yeah. And what's interesting is that, you know, a lot of people rip on because to this point of selling to somebody and then
13:01it's like, I wanna sell you so well that you freaking love it. Yep. I think, you know, a lot of people rip on Grant Cardone's, like, sales training or whatever, and they say it's, like, archaic or the tactics don't work.
13:10I think that why he does so well is that he's funny. Yeah. And he makes it, like, this fun type of process.
13:18And I found, especially in one to one selling, the more I can, like, add a little bit of humor in there Mhmm. In the close Yeah. It's like a direct correlation between I can actually come harder at you if I can also,
13:32like, let out those release valves of a little bit of humor. Yeah. I mean humor, we use it all the time in selling.
13:38We wanna use every emotional state possible that we can when we're closing. So we use anger, we use sadness, we use humor, we use happiness, we use gratitude, we use optimism, pessimism.
13:50We use every useful state possible because different people will buy for different reasons. And then we use logic, we use emotion, we use moving towards, moving away from, languaging, timelines, like we can get super geeky into the whole thing, but everybody's gonna have their main reason for purchasing.
14:08And so we have to unlock every single perspective that would cause the right person to buy. Mhmm. And that's what we're doing in that situation.
14:17And that's it's really fun. And that's the most difficult audience that I've ever sold to because they're the most cynical, and they are the ones that are the most skeptical, and they are the youngest audience I've ever sold to.
14:30And we're selling in an environment that's not conducive to selling because YouTube live comment section Yeah. Is is like it's not a good place to be selling. Well, was about to move on, but now you gotta tell me, okay, with all those obstacles
14:43Yeah. How do you overcome that from a objection handling standpoint?
14:47Yeah. It's it was tough. So day one of the launch, this is not even when we're selling a product.
14:54I came in we have you ever done a Russian banya before? What is that? It is insane.
14:59Okay? Like, you go to this we're in Dubai. So first of all, I flew in the day before.
15:03I know what it is. I'm jet lagged off of my ass. But you should tell people what it is.
15:07I will tell. So I'm jet lagged off my ass. I I'm 42 at the time.
15:12These guys are all, like, 25, like on Iman's team. So I'm an old guy.
15:17I'm jet lagged. I'm tired. We got a presentation that night.
15:20We go to a Russian banya, which is insane. You know, like cold plunging in The US, like they're like, if you ever feel a little bit tired, just let us know. If you're a little dizzy, we'll get you out of the water.
15:30If it's a little too hot, we'll cool it down. But a Russian banya is like, you will go until you either die or I tell you to get out of the pool. Like, and they beat you with these sticks and it's super hot and it's super cold.
15:41It's crazy. It's awesome. But it's it's a new experience to me.
15:46So we're at the banya, I'm looking at the slide presentation that they specked out and I'm like, guys, there's some issues here from a pacing perspective. It's going a little too long in these points, audience is gonna get restless.
15:58So I'm like cut I cut out about 200 slides out of their presentation and I'm generally a guy who adds slides to most presentations because people are missing them. Mhmm. And but I saw there was pacing stuff.
16:09So we pulled some of that out. I knew it was still gonna be a challenge, but it was what we could do given the time constraint that we had.
16:17So we get on their day one and this is I don't think it would have mattered what we did from a presentation. I think this sentiment of the audience, the audience we were serving was get to the point, I wanna know right away, tell me exactly what to do.
16:30I don't need all this fluff, I don't need all this setup. And then they were getting angry in the chat and they were putting these l's in the chat which this is a new thing for me. I've never seen it before.
16:39So like l's in the chat are like not going well. Right. And then social contamination is when one starts to do it, they all start to do it.
16:48And there's a lot of bitching and there's a lot of negativity. Now, if you're selling, like here's a mistake a lot of people make.
16:54The chat is not generally representative of whether you're doing a good job or not from a sales perspective. Because the real buyers they don't often comment, and they're not actively in the chat because it's distracting.
17:07Like they're deciding do I like this? Do I wanna buy it? Shut up, take my money kind of a thing, right?
17:12So it's not a good temperature taking of whether you're on track or not. But nonetheless, if there's opportunity to flip some of those people, this is where the real money is made in these launches.
17:22Like if you wanna break records. If you sell the people that are already ready to buy, you do good.
17:28But if you can take the people that might buy and get them to buy, that's when you do great. So this audience is really rough. So I come in, Iman's done with the slide, he brings me in.
17:38So day one the frame is I'm gonna answer questions to help them understand how they can best use this information. So I come in and I say, okay, listen, there's a few things we need to get straight before we go further.
17:48So this is immediately setting an authority frame and so this sets me up as an authority to this audience to listen to and it also clears the previous frames that have been set. Whether you do it intentionally or not, a frame is always created.
18:01So the frame before was this I wanna know right away, give it to me right now, this petulance kind of a thing. So I come into them as alright, we gotta clear a few things up before we go further.
18:12Let me tell you a story about this marshmallow experiment that was done at Stanford where they took these young kids, put marshmallows in front of them, they said if you eat one now, you get it, but if you wait fifteen minutes, you get another one, you get two. And they watched these kids and the kids who ate the marshmallows right away later in life didn't do so good.
18:29The kids who could wait just a little bit, I'm not talking a long time, just a little bit, they tracked them later on in life and they were super successful. So now I've already kind of set up the stakes, right? It's like if you wanna behave like you've just behaved, you are gonna be a failure.
18:45If you wanna have a little bit of patience, you could be successful. So this is already the first part of it. The second part then and this is an indirect communication.
18:53So if you directly tell somebody, hey, listen. You need to delay gratification. They're gonna push back on you.
18:59When you tell somebody what to do directly,
19:01they generally will resist it. Right. Where you're telling them a story, they can see themselves in the story, and then also embedded in that story was a choice of who do you wanna be.
19:09Correct. And the behavior identity is the highest driver of behavior. Yep.
19:12So the behaviors are under they're influenced
19:15by the identity. Yeah. So I love frames where like if you don't take it, nothing is lost and if you do take it, something is gained.
19:21Yeah. So now I add to it. I said those same scientists, they wondered, could you teach the kids who didn't have impulse control to have impulse control?
19:29Turned out they went back to those, you know, those kids who ate the marshmallow right away and then they taught them how to delay gratification just for a little bit. They measured them late in life and they were just as successful as the kids who had it naturally.
19:41So now I've given them a second frame again with a story that you can change your behavior and get a benefit like you're not screwed by having a bad behavior because we can fix it. So now this gives me more authority.
19:54And then I add one more little extra story in there that's a little bit more direct that they could relate to to prove the point. Because this is a concept that they have no frame of reference around. So I said I want you to think of your favorite movie.
20:04If you jump just to the last five minutes of it, would it still be your favorite movie? And now they're like, oh, I get it. Like this behavior is not serving me like the masses.
20:17Right? And then I said, okay, so let's get down to business, and now I have them. Now that the authority's been set, now I have 60,000 some odd people at this time dropping w's in the chat, and now they're ready to listen to me.
20:29Because I've demonstrated immediately something that was that that made them reflect on themselves and and consider, is this behavior serving me? Oh, no.
20:39It isn't. I better adapt a better behavior if I wanna win and this guy's made me aware of it, so now I'm ready to listen to anything he's about to say. Okay.
20:47And one more question. How do you think about pacing and tonality? Because one of the things you just did there was,
20:54would it still be your favorite movie? Yeah. Right?
20:57Like and I you you did it better than even I can't reenact how you did it. But are you how do you think about the pacing and emphasizing certain words?
21:05Because that's something Yeah. In presentation, you do really well.
21:08Yep. You know, somebody's gotta watch one of your presentations to really get it. Yeah.
21:11It's everything. I mean, most communication is nonverbal.
21:15Now, if you have like the right mental attitude, generally, the tonality will follow. Because if I feel confident, I will speak in confidence.
21:24But if I'm not sure and I'm uncertain, then, you know, I will speak with with uncertainty and I I won't wanna have pauses because Mhmm. You might leave if I pause. But if I'm like totally locked in, I'm like, alright, listen.
21:36So this is how I this was the tonality. Like, we need to have a conversation. So this is the stern father tonality.
21:42Yes, it's the frame. Yeah. It's the frame.
21:43The frame is like you and I need to have a meeting of the minds because I'm seeing something here that I don't like. So let's address it. So this is like so important on tone.
21:53I will say though and this is funny Cole for a lot of the clients that I work with because even with Iman, if you watch him and he's reading off of a script, it's not the most dynamic presentation you've ever heard in your life.
22:06Mhmm. But I would prefer you to be flat and read the words correctly in these sales environments for most of my clients than to try to be dynamic in your speaking because in mass, word choice is so critically important and it's the easiest variable for us to control when we're selling.
22:26But the great thing is why not have both? So we have a formal structured presentation in that webinar or challenge, but we also have the informal portion where I come in without a net and who knows where it's gonna go.
22:40So it's not one or the other and this is a mistake everybody makes in their business, Cole, and in these webinars and in these challenges and in these launches. They think, well this is the best way to do it so we will do it this way. And we're like, there's value in informal and there's value in formal.
22:56So let's do both. There's value in being direct and aggressive and there's value in being indirect and unaggressive.
23:04Let's do both. We should have as many perspectives as possible that somebody could look at the opportunity
23:11and say I want this. Nice. If you ever wanted to get my one on one help in terms of scaling your business, then listen up really fast.
23:17So we're taking on a few clients where I can personally one on one audit their business across marketing, sales, operations, fulfillment, finance to be able to tell you what your constraint actually is, and ultimately, what are the one to three things you need to do next to be able to scale working entirely one on one with me.
23:33So if that's interesting, there's a link in the description that'll say Cole one on one that you can go book. But, essentially, not only will you get my personal advice, but we'll also be opening up our entire playbooks of my $36,000,000 a year company across marketing, sales, operation, fulfillment, finance, So you can basically model the best practices of what we've done right into your business, and it'll include the opportunity to meet in person up at an event with me.
23:56So if that's interesting, click the link in the description and mount back to the video. So let's go all the way back to one of your, if not your first promotion, which was the product e class.
24:06So I want everybody to understand, first of all, like, what was that? What was the product, etcetera?
24:11What was the promotion? But then, you know, what were sort of how did you approach it in terms of thinking through, okay, what beliefs do I need to break down?
24:20How am I gonna angle this? What is the persuasion that needs wrapped around this offer?
24:25And also, you know, the offer creation itself which is very persuasive. Yeah. So all the way back at 2007,
24:32I got crazy one day and I was like, man, I need to create an info product but I wanted to create an info product for two years and I never could do it. So I sat down and I said, the only way I'm ever gonna get this done is if I do it in one sitting. So I two hours locked in, wrote up this little guide, this PDF that taught people how to write articles faster which was a big deal at the time.
24:52And that worked out really really well. And I discovered this little hack which is still super valuable to this day. If you teach people how to do something faster, real fast, they will buy.
25:02Because they'll be like, damn. If I do this thing and it takes me forever and I can pay you a small amount of money and I can get it done sooner,
25:09that's a good deal. I can make my money back the first, second, third time I use the product that I purchased from you. So this is just selling time at a discount.
25:17Yeah. And you know, just to not cut you off, but I think there was I was listening to an overview of some of the most fastest growing tech companies right now. All of them just promised something that was existing in the market at half the speed.
25:29That's exactly the point. It's such a fundamental basic thing, and we just totally,
25:34you know, we we just overlook it. It's just a fundamental basic. Easy as hack.
25:38Like, if you can sell the same value, we're not talking about improving it, just the same thing, same quality at the same price, but get them there in half the time, you will print money. You will crush the competition. So I stumbled over this.
25:52So then, I started creating little products that did that and then I even created an info product and how I was creating info products really quickly. And we called it I called it the forty eight hour report which was how to create an info product in two days or less from scratch on a topic you knew nothing about. I built a little system for it and that product sold really well.
26:10So the audience was like, I wanna know more about this. Can you teach me more? Can we go more in-depth in it?
26:15So this is something people gloss over. I already had pent up demand for this thing on a small level, a low ticket product because I sold this thing very cheaply, dollars 7 I think I got crazy and went to $17 for this little ebook. And so I knew I had a concept that worked so I changed it.
26:32I went from instead of selling the product for $17, can I turn it into a presentation that I give away for free that would then sell a coaching program for $500 on the topic?
26:45So instead of having like 20 pages or 10 pages in an ebook, I could do six coaching sessions two hours apiece with a live group teaching them all my info product creation secrets that I knew of at the time in 2008.
26:59So this is this is where we did this webinar. Right. So But nobody had a formula back then including me.
27:04Like there was no You couldn't go buy one to many on Amazon and just say paint my numbers, here's the thing that Jason does first, second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh, etcetera. It was kinda like, I don't know what the hell to say or do on this webinar. And so here's here was my thinking process at the time which I still use to this day.
27:21This wasn't intentional, this was accidental but it worked really well. I said, god, I don't like how webinars at the time were very bait and switch.
27:32Come here, will show you this all for free. I'm such a great guy out of the genuine kindness of my heart. This is almost like an act of charity, right?
27:39Yeah. Psych bitch, give me your money. Right?
27:41Yep. That's what it felt like to me.
27:44So I'm like, I'm not comfortable with that. So how can I be comfortable with it? So I did a thing that I still did to this very day.
27:51I said, listen, I have two objectives on this webinar. My first is to give you the very best lesson you could ever have in forty five minutes on how to create digital products. My second objective is to sell you something at the end of this presentation.
28:03Now if I can't give you the best lesson, don't buy from me. Don't give me your money ever. But if on a small chance, a miracle perhaps that I can actually give you this lesson, then you should feel obligated to purchase when I'm selling at the end if you're a right fit.
28:18Do we have a deal? And, I'm like, I had no idea at the time how powerful that was.
28:23That was purely just to make me feel comfortable enough so I could go forward with And, explain to people why that's powerful because you're creating an agreement and there's things embedded into that agreement. So, break that down. Yeah.
28:34So the agreement frame is the most powerful thing. I basically say, here are the conditions in which we can do business and if you accept those conditions, then if as long as I fulfill on them, the likelihood of you buying is significantly high.
28:48So this is commitment. So, if you wanna get anybody to do anything, you first ask them a small thing that will form an identity and then you ask them the big thing. So, if you say, do you feel adventurous?
28:57And they say, yes. And then, you say, sign up for my email list. They go, okay.
29:01Cause now it feels cool. You know, like, oh, that's an adventurous thing to to do something new. But if you just say to sign up for my email list, the compliance rate on that is very low.
29:12Kids are really good at this. They're very natural at this. They'll say things like, dad, do you love me?
29:16Of course, I love you. And you want what's best for me, don't you? Yes.
29:19Okay. Well, I have a d in math right now. And you're like, okay.
29:23Well, let's see. You feel better about it. But if they say, dad, I have a d in math right now.
29:26What the hell are you doing? Like, you get pissed. So I had a commitment frame in there, an agreement frame.
29:31I also had this excitement that is wrapped around what we're doing.
29:38Like most people just get on and they start talking at their audience and they don't create a lean in moment. They don't create this thing of like, this is gonna be different than what I'm used to.
29:49There's gonna be something here. There's stakes involved and hey, will he do it or will he not do it? So there's tension.
29:55Mhmm. Like, Cole, we take this for granted now because Instagram and on YouTube, everybody knows about curiosity loops, open loops and tension resolution tension, stories where you're like and, but, therefore.
30:09Yeah. Like all of this shit is known today. But back then as dinosaurs, we were like figuring this out as we went along.
30:16So we didn't know anything about curiosity loops. But I created one. It's like the tension was there.
30:22Will he give the best lesson or not? Which is stronger than I will give you the best lesson. They're like, okay, cool.
30:29If he does, it's to my best interest. But if he doesn't, I'm gonna grab the popcorn.
30:34This train wreck's gonna be fun to watch. Nice. Yeah.
30:37And so how did you structure it so that it was the best lesson and you could actually meet those obligations? And then I'm sure as you're doing that, what else did you do persuasively
30:46Yeah. To build the beliefs they needed to believe to be true Yep. To purchase at the end?
30:51So the good news was this was already a product initially. So I said, how do I just teach the product? I'm just gonna teach them the outcome from that product and teach it in less than forty five minutes.
31:01So if I only had forty five minutes to give them the exact plan on how to create products on their own, then that's a win for me. And I did that.
31:10Now again, this is like the curse of knowledge kills so many of us, Cole, because now I know about a 150 ways to create a digital product and I know like a 172 different ways on which you could do market research, but back then I knew one way.
31:23So I couldn't over teach cause I could teach everything I knew on that one narrow specific topic in one session. Right.
31:31And that's actually really good strategy like narrow the focus of the webinar down so small that it's impossible to over teach.
31:40The rule of one. Yeah. This is great.
31:42So for me, my whole premise was one problem, one solution, one sitting information products. So find a problem that's narrow enough that you could solve it for somebody in one sitting and then only solve it one way.
31:57Don't give them three options or two options, give them one because that's all I knew how to do which is brilliant because we we remove choice fatigue, the paradox of choice, decision making fatigue, all that kinda stuff, it's very crystal clear, people can see themselves doing it, they believe it, and I was also like and sell it super cheaply, that was the other punchline because was like how are you going to really do something great in one sitting?
32:23Don't, Make it an impulse purchase. So I was just teaching what I knew. It just so happened that it checked all these persuasive boxes that I was unaware even existed.
32:32Mhmm. And what was the demo pitch? That was part of this.
32:35Right? Yeah. So this was during the offer.
32:38I would say, listen, I am so confident in the ability to follow this system that I'm going to create a new product from scratch during the coaching sessions that we're gonna go through. And you will tell me what product you want me to create, the group will vote on it, whatever you pick.
32:53I will prove to you between session number two and session number three of our coaching program in less than a week, I will launch a product from scratch in front of your very eyes. And this is powerful because now we're demonstrating the value instead of just talking about the value. Now here's where I got really lucky and later on became strategic about it.
33:15Said not only will I create the product, I will give you the product not just for personal use. I will allow you to resell the product and keep 100 of the profits.
33:26And what I didn't know is I essentially guaranteed,
33:30Cole, everybody would have a digital product by the time this coaching program was done. That's good. And so what you're doing there, they're doing a lot of things there.
33:37One of them, and you do this really well studying your stuff, is you always show versus tell. And so, explain the importance of that and then how that actually
33:47how does that actually manifest when you're actually live selling? Yeah. That's a great point.
33:51And and you know, now, so you and I are both in the social media rabbit hole trying to figure out like YouTube and all that kind of stuff. And I've been analyzing and I'm like, man, all the best YouTube videos now do this. Like they show a point more than tell it.
34:03Talking head, exposition, boring as shit alive.
34:07Right? Now if you wanna really learn something and somebody's telling you what to do step by step, that's useful.
34:13But showing is always better than telling. So showing somebody that like for example with me, showing them that I know how to do webinars is easy because I'd be like give me an objection and then I just close it right there on the spot. Give me a challenge.
34:28Somebody be like Jason, to start a webinar? I say I like a pop quiz. They're like, how do you do a pop quiz?
34:32I'm like, well, me your topic and they give it to me, I go, okay and then immediately do a pop quiz right in front of them. So I'm demonstrating my knowledge in real time without a net and that's one of the ways you show something.
34:43Another way you show something is what I was showing there specifically of like one problem, one solution, one sitting. I was showing them how easily it was to find one problem. I was showing them the framework that I used.
34:55They could look at that framework and they can say, wow, even an idiot like myself could follow that framework. It would be harder to fail at it than to not fail at it.
35:06And so visually showing the outcome in a way that somebody could easily understand it is another way to show it. And so we always And it doesn't come easy.
35:14So what you first do is you put it all out there, everybody's gonna just tell all over the place, they're gonna talk talk talk talk talk. And then when you go back when your presentation is done and it's written, you say, if I had to show this in action in motion, what could that look like?
35:29And then you replace as many tell moments as possible with show moments. I'll give you one of my favorite ones and we'll talk about this launch in a bit, but during the ASM days, the Amazon selling machine where we broke the affiliate record, I had a better than money back guarantee.
35:45I just didn't say, hey, listen, if your business doesn't work, I will buy your business from you. That's telling. I said, here's a letter from my banker of a brand new bank account that we opened up that we put a million dollars cash in, and here's the phone number if you wanna call and verify the deposit for yourself of the balance we have in here.
36:06So if I have to buy your business, I have the war chest in order to do so. So I showed my intention.
36:13I just didn't talk about my intention. And, what that is also and you did this with the the the first one, the demo pitch. Yep.
36:20Right? With both of those, you're issuing a challenge. Mhmm.
36:24Right? Yeah. Essentially to them.
36:25Where you're kind of like putting all the pressure on you. Correct. Do you do that every time or was that just those specific promotions?
36:31I try to. Yeah. So the more it's so funny.
36:34The more you can shift risk from the customer to you,
36:39the better you will sell. What's funny is what's risky to you might be super risky to the customer but actually not very risky to you at all.
36:49So what we're trying to do is risk arbitrage here. So I'm like, okay, how can I take something that is not risky at all for me but is incredibly risky for my user and take on that risk on their behalf? So I de risk it for them and that's the number one reason people will buy coal out of everything I've ever learned in my nineteen years in this business, $250,000,000 plus in sales, the biggest sales lesson I've ever learned is the more we can remove risk, the more we will sell.
37:13If we can remove risk a 100%, we will have a close rate of a 100%. Now you can't 100% remove risk, but you try to come as close as possible.
37:23And so I am trying to figure out ways in which I can remove risk. One time we had a Facebook course that we were selling and my guarantee there was listen, if you follow the system exactly as we describe it and you spend 5,000 or up to 5,000 on your ads and you don't get a positive return on your ad spend, I will cover the cost so your ads become free.
37:47And now we have de risked the ability to run ads for those users. And we put conditions in and all that stuff of course, right? So we're always looking at how do we remove the risk of somebody trying this and failing and I think that's where the big wins come from.
38:05And so every single time I'm doing an offer, I'm like the demonstration more than anything should be to remove risk. This is why I like selling software because I can remove the risk of implementation by showing them how few steps is required and done for you is even better because I remove the risk of them implementing it because we implement it for them.
38:24Right. And so hold that thought. We'll talk about that later when we get to the plan.
38:28Yeah. But go to ASM.
38:30Yep. And so this is one of your really probably breakout career moments. Yeah.
38:34So, again, you kind of alluded to it. You broke the affiliate record of all time. You might still hold that.
38:38Right? Still still hold it? So what was ASM?
38:40Yep. And then talk about we all already talked about the guarantee,
38:44but how did you think about packaging that entire offer and copy platform slash presentation to make it as persuasive as possible? Yeah. So it's the end of two thousand twelve.
38:53It's December and every single time in my life, Cole, before we would promote somebody as an affiliate, I would vet the course. I would look at it, is it good?
39:02I'd look at the presentation, is it gonna be valuable whether somebody buys it or not because I always wanna add value to my audience. And I was one of the few guys that actually did that.
39:11Most people are like, screw it. I heard it has good EPCs earnings per click. I'll just throw it out there because I want the money.
39:17I don't care about the audience. But because it was the end of the year, I was burned out, I was exhausted, a friend of mine James Jones says, hey, you guys should promote these new guys.
39:24Nobody had ever heard of these guys. They were new to the industry. Matt Clark, Jason Katzenbach.
39:30And so we throw on a webinar. I don't even show up for it. First webinar of my life, I never reviewed it.
39:35First product, I never took a look at. It was a clickbank product, by the way, too. So it was like a weird kind of thing you wouldn't expect to do really well.
39:43It was on physical products. And all's we taught back then was digital products. Everything was digital because digital was the future.
39:50And then I looked at the numbers from that promotion and it was insane. Like the conversion rate was out of this world and the response rate from my customer was like, thank you for letting me know about this, they were so appreciative. And I'm like, there's something here.
40:05There's some money. So those guys come back to us at the beginning of twenty thirteen and said, we're gonna do a big launch this year And we're gonna do it for $3,500 front end price.
40:16When at the time the Jeff Walker $2,000 product launch formula was everything.
40:22Everybody did it at that price point. And they're like, you wanna promote? And I'm like, yes.
40:26They're like, okay, we're opening car in April. It's January right now. We'll see you then.
40:31So I'm like, well, I know this thing's a winner. It's a hidden gold mine that nobody is aware of.
40:37And so I said, I need to tool up in advance to create as many resources as possible to help me get the highest conversion rate on this because anybody else promoting this, they have no idea how good this offer is. So I had a little bit of insider information.
40:50So one of the things that I did was I started my own Amazon business which was insane because I was a digital product guy.
40:57But I'm like I wanna have a business that has proof when this goes live that I'm following the very thing that I'm recommending. And then I'm like I'm going to create my own presentation for it. I'm not gonna send it to their guys' funnel which is a really good funnel, but then I wouldn't have any differentiation from any other affiliate who would also send it to the same funnel.
41:16And then I'm gonna add my own bonuses and this is to this day easiest way to improve an offer for most people is to find the right extra stuff you can give away for free when they buy the thing that you're selling. And so I started building bonuses months in advance of this offer going live.
41:33So this is ASM one. They launch it, we knife in there, we promote it, we crush everybody. Number one affiliate by a large margin and I don't remember how much money it was but at the time it was a lot.
41:44So then six months later they launched ASM two. Number one affiliate again, more money this time, life is good.
41:52We added more bonuses between ASM one and ASM two so we had new deliverables. We saw what happens with the users who bought where the constraint points were so we removed some of those constraints. We captured proof so now we had a documentation of success stories.
42:06ASM two does good, ASM three comes along. Now these leaderboards and these launches Cole, they will have badges. Know, first cell badge, fifth cell, tenth cell, fiftieth, hundred, two hundred.
42:17This one had badges up to 300 cells. So 300 cells on a 3,500 product.
42:22Pretty good, right? Mhmm. Nobody thought anybody would hit 300 perhaps.
42:26Maybe they would. We blew through that. They didn't have a badge for us.
42:31So they made a badge specifically for us, put our face on it because we outsold everybody to a point that was insane.
42:39I think we sold 330 units at $3,500 a pound.
42:42So what does that total to? Like how much? I don't know, but it was a lot of money.
42:46Right? Yeah. And and that was just to start to cook because ASM four comes along, this is six months later, so we beef up more bonuses, we start playing with a guarantee now, we improve the presentation, ASM four comes through and we sell 1,300 units at $3,500.
43:04So now this is like stupid money. Like just it's it's insane. So they take us all to the Cayman Islands and they bring out all the top 10 affiliates there.
43:14They set us down. They have a whiteboard on the middle of the beach by the ocean. It's the most surreal scenario and they go, hey, how can we help you affiliates make more money?
43:22And everybody starts throwing out ideas, this, that, this, that. And I said, there's one thing you can do that will make us all a bunch more money. And they say, what is it?
43:29I said, raise the price. And they're like, what do you mean? I'm like, it's at 3,500 right now.
43:34If you raise it to $5,000 for a front end product and by the way, Cole, back then nobody had phone reels. Oh, that's crazy.
43:40Nobody was doing phone sales. Like three guys did it and then got arrested practically. Like the FTC came in like you you freaking clowns need to stop doing this shit.
43:49Right? Mhmm. So this was all direct to cart back then.
43:53And I remember they looked at me and they say, okay. So you're saying conversion will go down but the net profit will be good enough to justify the decrease in conversion because we'll make more overall.
44:06And I said, that's the least likely thing to happen. I said, there's only three things that can happen when you raise the price. One is true.
44:12Conversion could go down. The other is conversion could stay the same or conversion could go up. And this is what I said to these guys and this is something so few people understand, Cole, is I'm like I asked them a series of questions.
44:25I said, has the product gotten significantly better from a s m one to two to three to four? And they're like, oh, miles better.
44:32Like way better. I said, so here's my problem selling it right now. I said, I can't tell people it's better if the prices always stayed the same.
44:41They won't believe me. Mhmm. They'll think I'm lying to them or they won't believe that it actually has gotten better because when things get significantly better, price is supposed to go up.
44:52Like this is illogical. But if the if the price is increased, then not only is that actually more truthful for the audience understand, but it puts more scarcity and urgency behind this because it could go up again.
45:06Mhmm. And so this was a good angle for us. So conversions for us went up at a $5,000 price point and we sold 1,900 some odd units, I believe.
45:17I know what we sold from a dollars perspective. It was $9,800,000 in eight days.
45:22Nice. And it was insane. And this was ASM five.
45:25And it was just an evolution of improving the offer of deliverables and bonuses, improving the presentation, and then figuring out more ways to remove risk.
45:37Nice. A lot of people don't even understand that pricing
45:41is the number one signal of quality. Mhmm. Right?
45:45Yeah. Like even if you're on a phone sale, if you're working with an agency and the agency pitches you like $3 a month, you know they suck. Yeah.
45:51Like, you know I mean, and really what happens is, you know they literally cannot run a business on those prices. No.
45:57So they don't really have a business. It's just some kid in his mom's basement who has 10 clients. Yep.
46:02Right? So a lot of times, that's how so because people are like, well, how would pricing go up and my conversion go up? Well, there is a certain point where that does happen, and it's because the pricing signals quality Yeah.
46:14Which also signals trust. Yep. You know?
46:16So talk about one of the things with that webinar, studying it that I noticed you did really well, is preempting all the objections super aggressively.
46:26Yeah. So, like, walk through I mean, you could even just if you remember, what was the language you even used to do that? So
46:33I don't think, Cole, anybody alive more aggressively preempts objections. I don't think so either.
46:39It is to an insane degree that is almost intimidating for most people. But I would suggest more people play with this. So in the very beginning of this webinar, I won't remember the exact words, but it went something like this.
46:51I'm like I stand before you today with a tall task. I believe I have the greatest thing that you could ever use to grow your business in mind but I'm afraid that if I bring this up you're gonna reject it and you're gonna kick it out because you're gonna say, I don't have the money to do this Jason. And you're gonna say, there's too much time involved and I have less time than ever before.
47:09And you're gonna be worried that you don't have the abilities to do it because you don't think that you're qualified enough or that your skill set is lacking. And then you're also gonna be confused because guru a tells you this and guru b tells you that and they contradict each other. And if I show you results, you're not gonna believe me.
47:24You're gonna think I made those results up or that I lied about those results or that I somehow misrepresented them. And then, even if you believe the results are true, you're gonna think well it works for them but it will never work for me.
47:37Like I I had 15 major objections in the first three slides of that webinar that I brought up. Like immediately like and then I'll say, it won't even matter. I go, if I show you results like Mario who's doing a 100,000 a month or results like this person doing 50,000 a month or this person doing 200,000 or this person doing 400,000 or this person doing 300,000 per month, none of that will matter because everything I show you, you will reject and you will kick out because you have these inbuilt biases.
48:04And if we don't first remove these biases, then nothing I say will matter. So I'm like setting the frame early on of like here's every objection you could possibly have on it.
48:15I don't resolve them, by the way. I do not solve them. I merely lay them all out and then ask them to agree to at least listen with an open mind.
48:25Right. That's the only sell I'm making in the first asking
48:29them to suspend disbelief.
48:31Yes. Correct. Essentially what it is.
48:32Yeah. I'm just like, give me a fair shake. Right now, you are prejudiced against what I say, and that's gonna prevent you from absorbing anything I give you, you will immediately kick it out.
48:43So don't believe everything I say, I'm not asking you to do that. I'm asking you to consider it with an open mind, and then if it makes sense, it makes sense, and if it doesn't, it doesn't. So a couple things I think that makes that work so well.
48:56Number one, nobody does that,
48:58and it's so by the nature of that, it is a pattern interrupt. Yeah. Because literally nobody does that.
49:03In fact, they do the exact opposite and pretend all the objections don't exist. Yeah. Right?
49:08I mean, that's what people in one to one selling do too. The other thing that I thought was really interesting as you were doing that, don't know if you just did this on purpose or you just do it naturally, is when you started, your pacing and your energy actually goes up Yeah.
49:21As you did you do that on purpose? Yeah. Or is that so why do you do that?
49:24Oh, god. Because because let me because I could see, let's say, one of my clients, even me maybe, trying to do the same thing, but then doing it with maybe a flatter cadence and tonality
49:35and people are like, what is this? Mhmm. You know?
49:38But with yours, it was like the energy rises Yeah. The entire time. Yeah.
49:42So what's the thinking behind that and like, yeah. So there's a couple things going on there. One is you have to pace and you have to lead.
49:49So if you come out and you're at an energetic mismatch with your audience, then you're out of rapport instantly. Right. And so your audience is not coming in all jacked up and all hyped up.
49:58Right? They're coming meet them where they're at. You gotta meet them where they're at and then you can shift them to go where you wanna go.
50:04But the second reason too is we're really trying to get that excitement level to match the next section that we go into which is the gain. So, I always start in pain and I always end in gain at the beginning of the webinar.
50:18So, as I'm building up and getting excited and getting excited, this is where we're gonna start then what could be possible. Mhmm.
50:25So, we start with, okay, it could be this, but it could be this, and it could be this, and it could be this. This is a challenge, this is a challenge. And then I go, and then I'm like, alright, boom.
50:33So now they know this is different. Emotionally, I've got them in a heightened state where they're now most receptive to hear the benefits, but I built up to it by gradually and aggressively, but slowly and certainly within a few minutes getting them to that point.
50:49And I'm also getting myself into that state. Like I can't just switch it on very easily. Yeah.
50:54But this is advanced. I think if most people just used the words
51:00and didn't have to worry about all the other nonverbal communication, they would see a significant improvement. No. I think they would too.
51:06And then so, then there was this thing called the Launchpad that was on the back of this. Right? What was that?
51:11Brilliant.
51:12So my favorite webinar of everyone I've ever did and almost nobody's ever seen it. So customer webinars are the best webinars you could ever write.
51:24So 99 of webinars are front end customer facing where it's like you don't know me, come to this webinar, first business we ever do is at the end of the webinar Right. Where I sell you something.
51:36Or I mean nowadays there's a low ticket funnel but you buy like a $7 product and you don't even really consume it. You're still pretty much front end real for a significant investment you make is with whatever's being sold on the webinar.
51:50Now my best sales pitch I could ever do is product.
51:57There is never a better sales pitch in the world than a product that is so unbelievably good that it completely changes somebody's life. Mhmm. And so people forget that.
52:05They get so caught up in the webinar itself. But what we were selling, ASM produced at that time more successes than any program in the history of online business had ever produced on the internet.
52:19And to this day still one of the most successful products to ever exist. So we would sell a lot of people. If I had 15,000 people that bought that program, which we did, we had about 17,000 people, $67,000,000 in sales that we referred to that product over six ASM launches.
52:38And if you think about it, if I only have 300 clients out of those 15,000 that built a million dollar Amazon business, which I did, I have three hundred first generation Amazon millionaires that I started from scratch.
52:54That I was the conduit of their success. I was the person that switched that light on for them.
53:00Mhmm. So who better to sell something to than people who you made millionaires from scratch?
53:08These are the webinars that we should spend the most time on. And people spend the least time on them, they don't even spend any time on them because they don't do them. So we write a webinar.
53:16Now here's a problem with a webinar call that nobody talks about and it's a big problem. Successful people don't attend webinars.
53:25They're too busy. Mhmm. I don't attend webinars.
53:28I very rarely do and if I do I catch the recording. If it's really serious, I have my assistant attend the webinar and then give me the notes.
53:35Nowadays, the AI is doing it. Right? I don't even attend webinars of investment call updates that are updating me on what I did with my own money.
53:43Correct. So I'm not gonna I'm probably not gonna opt in to one on Facebook. So I get these share I'm sure you get them too because you know, we have a lot of money in a lot of different places.
53:52You know, my financial advisor puts it in. I'm in funds I don't even necessarily understand. And then I'll get these text message, valued shareholder, we have this meeting coming up because we have all this capital and we want you to know how we're allocating it.
54:05And I'm like, I don't care. I don't even show up to those. So you have to create conditions for those types of people to show up.
54:12They will show up if you make the invitation so specific specific and and exact exact and direct to them. And that's what we essentially did. So this is like if you're an Amazon seller who's selling this much, who has this much product, who has these issues, and so only people that were successful Amazon sellers that were hitting a constraint and plateauing at their level of success, that's the only people that were interested in coming.
54:34So we made the invitation super specific to them, and that was the first thing we did. The second thing that we did is we had such a good reason why that this product was gonna be incredibly limited.
54:47And that was because we had figured out how to really rank products on Amazon to a degree that if Amazon knew how well we had cracked their algorithm, they would change their algorithm.
54:58Yeah. And they eventually did. Which is crazy that a small town Iowa boy like me could influence the largest e com platform in existence.
55:07But hey, anything's possible. So we were like, hey, listen.
55:11We only have a 100 spots that we're gonna test this on because we wanna make sure that we don't break break it for everybody. So we have to limit.
55:19So we have massive scarcity and scarcity is the number one driver to conversion. The more scarce a resource is and the more demand for it, the easier it is to sell. And so we had not artificial scarcity, we had hardcore legitimate reason why scarcity is we are testing this with a small group of entrepreneurs.
55:38We don't think it will go weird on Amazon because we're so under the radar, but hey, we don't know.
55:45So do you wanna be one of our 100 guinea pigs? Now we told them in advance, we are gonna sell you this software on the webinar. So to a successful business owner, letting them know you're going to sell a product that's really amazing is actually super attractive.
56:00It's like saying we have a new Ferrari out, you get to come to the showroom to consider to be one of the 10 people who could buy this new Ferrari. Right? So we are straight up with the product.
56:09Now we get them on there and we're like, hey listen, I'm gonna show you the software which I think revolutionizes everything you can do with Amazon. But to get there, we first must set the stage.
56:20So we let them know that there's something to be sold, but And you see this on phone sales all the time. People are like, what's the price? They wanna know what the price is up Yeah.
56:27And yeah, they'll say, well we'll get there but hold on. All these things need to happen first. And they're like, why?
56:30I just need to know the price. So you have to have the ability to have a good reason to build up to the point so they have the proper context in order to appreciate the value. So we had that there, right?
56:40So this was the frame of the software. Now here's what's really cool about this product Cole and a lot of people don't get this and this is something I've done so well with in my life is you wanna have things that have less to them but do them better.
56:57So let me describe this. So we all know click funnels, right? Yep.
57:00Click funnels is the funnel builder. If you wanna build a funnel, it can do it. If you wanna make it red, it can make it red.
57:06If you wanna make it pink, it can make it pink. If you wanna use this font, it can do this font, if you wanna have it for any type of service, product, e comm, what have you, multi level marketing, it can do all of that and more, it's a Swiss Army knife solution.
57:20And that's good for masses, okay? But what we have discovered is if you really wanna help somebody, you don't add features, you remove unessential features until only the essential is left.
57:32So we essentially built a funnel builder for Amazon sellers and only Amazon sellers. And you would only buy this if you were an Amazon seller who was trying to rank products on Amazon in a certain specific way because nobody in Amazon selling at that point in time could do any of this on their own with any third party funnel builder.
57:55They'd have to custom code it and hire their own programmers. And even then it was super duper difficult. So we built a software that had baked in features that made Amazon sellers now be able to build funnels to rank their products easier than you could in ClickFunnels, but in a way that no other funnel builder in the world could do it.
58:15And it was the easiest software you could ever use because you basically checked a couple boxes, filled in a few points, and then it was done and it printed it. Now could you change the font? No.
58:23Could you change the background color? No. Could you restyle the template?
58:27Not if your life depended on it, right? But you could put your ASIN in here, you could check this box, you could put these keywords in here and you could select the funnels you wanted to run it into, you could drop your coupon codes into it and then it would auto rotate it logically in a way that we knew would increase rankings on Amazon.
58:43So we had the most specialized, most specific software on the planet and we charged $10,000 a year per license.
58:50And the first time we did this webinar, I dropped the link forty two minutes in, I get into my stance to pitch for the next couple hours because that's what I'm used to doing. Five minutes later, we had sold out all 100 units.
59:01We sold a 112 units I believe at $10,000 a pop. We made like $1,290,000 on a webinar in forty seven minutes.
59:11Insane.
59:12Yeah. It just goes to show a good offer
59:14Yeah. Beats all the persuasion. We had 500 people, 587 people that we could even invite to the webinar because it was a sub segment of a sub segment of a customer who had paid at least $3,500 on the front end who had got a good result from us.
59:29So it's amazing what you can do on the back end with webinars with very small numbers of people you can put up large numbers of revenue.
59:38Okay. So before we move on to the plan, the plan's the juggernaut. Yeah.
59:42One of the juggernauts. I wanna talk about the differences if there's any really between live and virtual one to many selling.
59:50Yep. And a good way to talk about that would be talk about one of the pitches you did for Ezra Firestone. So, like, what's the backstory with that?
59:58And, you know, how did So Shopify at the time was this new little concept.
1:00:03It was coming onto the market. It was public, but nobody was really using it yet. I think they had a 180,000 users total in the account and it was hemorrhaging money.
1:00:12But Shopify was really the most powerful ecom platform at the time. And, Ezra was pumping like $75,000 a day through it with his Cindy Joseph Right.
1:00:21Boom makeup. Now, we controlled the Amazon market and he comes to us and says, hey, listen. I have the first ever Shopify approved course and theme that we can sell.
1:00:33Right. Do you wanna be the exclusive marketing partners on it? I said, say less friend.
1:00:38Right? So, I also knew Amazon sellers needed to diversify.
1:00:42They couldn't just stay on Amazon and we had that audience captively that we could serve, that we could test the market out on.
1:00:50So we were doing a live event. So part of what we sold in ASM as a bonus was you get to come to a live three day event in person in Las Vegas.
1:01:00So this is a bonus. What people don't get is you can make your free bonuses for your offer stack monetizable on the back end.
1:01:09And this was one of many where we literally made money off our bonuses. So they come to this live event and my favorite pitch to this day from the stage that I've ever done.
1:01:19I have Ezra go up on stage and he starts to talk about all the split tests that they've run from this Shopify theme that they've created specifically for his brand and how you can use these best practices when you should set up your own e commerce site. So here's the color split test, here's the formatting split test, here's the things that the heat map results, all that kind of stuff.
1:01:39Really geeky stuff but super useful. And then he gets to the pitch and this was all choreographed in advance but to this day people think that this happened spontaneously.
1:01:49Like he goes, alright, I'm about now he's like, I'm ready to show you how you can invest in this theme. I got this really cool offer.
1:01:57I wanna spend a few minutes talking about it. And as he starts to say that, I knife in from the back and I run up on stage and I look upset. I look pissed off.
1:02:06And I go, Ezra, what are you doing? And he's like, what do you mean?
1:02:11I'm like, are you selling at my event? And he's like, well, yeah. They told me that I could sell at the event.
1:02:17And I say, no, no, no, no, my friend. And I'm looking at him like I'm looking at you. I say, you don't get to sell at my event.
1:02:23And then I turn to the audience and say, I get to sell at my event. And, the audience starts clapping. Right?
1:02:30And, this is something nobody really gets, Cole. If you frame it properly, people are excited to be sold to.
1:02:38Right. Like you could literally make people get get super pumped up like, yeah yeah, pitch me pitch me pitch me pitch me. You just gotta set up the conditions properly.
1:02:46And so they're like, okay, let's hear the pitch, Jason. And this is what I did and this is what you can do in a room that you can't do on a webinar or anywhere else for that matter, which is a good lesson that you look at a media, you should say what are all the lever points of that media? What can I do in this media I can't do in any other media?
1:03:03So you could take fundamentals and normal selling principles and then you could add to them. So in a room, here's an example. I'll give it to you.
1:03:09I say to people, I say stand up right now if you've known you needed an ecommerce site for six months but still haven't launched one yet. So we get people to stand up. So this is social proof, three-dimensional, you could look around and see everybody standing up.
1:03:23So you're not alone. Right? You could never do that on a webinar.
1:03:26I wish you could somehow do that on webinar but you can't. Also, we've done here very subtly is it's easier to go to the back of the room and buy a product when you're standing on your feet than when you're sitting in a chair.
1:03:36Right. Thing about the law of inertia, this is a physical principle of the universe, is an object at rest stays at rest.
1:03:45That first step in anything is the hardest step. Getting to the gym is really hard. But once you're there, you tend to just get into the workout.
1:03:55Right? But putting on the damn shoes to go to the gym, that's the difficult part. So we remove that little extra sticking point to get them from inert to in motion.
1:04:03So they stand up. And then I take it a step further, I say stay standing if it's been a year or more since you've known that you need an e commerce site but haven't launched one yet, if not sit down.
1:04:14So some people sit down but others stay standing, okay? And then this is what I close with. I say, I don't know about the rest of you, but those of you standing right now, you need to go to the back of the room immediately and sign up because I guarantee you that this will be the best money you spent.
1:04:30And they go to the back of the room and they start signing up. So direct commands and telling people exactly what to do in those scenarios and making it easier for them to go to the back of the room and sign up and using a time close.
1:04:43And this is the easiest thing of all to sell. Cause basically I'm selling, you are losing so much money, you have lost money forever and if you don't change that now, you're never going to change that.
1:04:55And so I got the first wave of buyers. So in a room,
1:04:58you typically close in waves. This has been my experience. Not everybody goes at once.
1:05:03And so for the first wave, one of the things I wanna point out that you did, they weren't technically losing money, but you framed it Yeah. As if they were losing money Yeah.
1:05:12Which is because and you know, there's a bajillion studies. Right? But the loss is twice as painful as the equivalent gain.
1:05:19Yeah. Loss of conversion. Yeah.
1:05:20You literally I mean, technically, they're gonna start a Shopify store and make money. Yeah. Their business is gonna go from here to here.
1:05:26Right? But it's the framing of not being there is losing it, which you could really do with almost everything. You should put people in pain.
1:05:34Well, you should make them aware of the pain that they don't want to admit to. Mhmm. And then you give them a way out of that pain.
1:05:41Yeah. That's the strongest sales frame of all. Like this
1:05:45this is never gonna get solved unless you do something now, you're gonna continue to piss money away, you're gonna continue to make an excuse and most people when they think of something painful, what they do is immediately repress it. They don't wanna think about it. They wanna bury it which is why again when I'm closing, opening, communicating, selling on a webinar, I'm constantly reminding them of the pain.
1:06:06The frame is like listen, it's painful now but I think I can help you get out of it. But we always make them aware of the cost of staying the same which is the worst cost of all.
1:06:18Right? Mhmm. So I made them aware of this.
1:06:20I I basically said and this is such a good frame where I was like, I don't know about the rest of you, but you, I know I can make you money. Right. Like this is risk.
1:06:29So de risking. Right? So they go to the background and buy and I go, now to the rest of you, let's have a conversation.
1:06:34Okay? We gotta determine if you should buy this or not. And I use this frame everywhere.
1:06:40When I do all the q and a's on webinars, whenever I'm selling, it's like we have to make sure you're the right person to buy this because if you are, it's gonna cost you more money not to buy it. And if you're the wrong person, I don't want you to buy it but we have to have a discussion to determine if you should buy this or not.
1:06:56So I'm in control. I gotta help you make the decision that's good for you and the problem is you never make fucking decisions in your life. You sit there in the middle, maybe, maybe, maybe, and so my goal is to get you to a yes or to a no.
1:07:08And so I say to the audience, I say to them, I've gotta figure this out. So I have I go, give me a flip chart. So somebody runs up with the flip chart, they flip it out and I said, what would stop you from buying this?
1:07:21And somebody says money. So I write money on the top on the flip chart. And then some guy a few rows deep says, Jason, I've already given you all my money.
1:07:31This is what he says. Like, not planned, just from the peanut gallery and and everybody laughs. I don't laugh.
1:07:38I look at them and I go, that's not true. I go, you paid for the plane ticket to be here. You paid for the hotel room.
1:07:44And then, I walk to the whiteboard and I say, so don't tell me it's about the money and I cross it off. Right? Like I could never have choreographed this.
1:07:51It was perfect. Yeah. But this is why you gotta be a pro in this business.
1:07:54You gotta be so well trained. You gotta be so prepared so when those gifts offer themselves to you, you can get the most out of them.
1:08:03That demonstration of showing that I was so confident that this product was for them, that's how I demonstrated that.
1:08:11And I go, what's the real problem? And then people said time. And then I wrote time on the board.
1:08:15And then I said, let's have a discussion about time. And then we close on time, the next wave of people go back. Well, did you close on time?
1:08:22I mean there's so many ways that you can close on Give me one. I don't remember the specific way that we closed on time there but essentially it was like, okay listen, are you gonna build this on your own?
1:08:33No. You're gonna have to go out and find something to be built for you. Are you gonna find anything as good as what you saw here today?
1:08:40No. Is it gonna be as clickable and as quick as it is today? No.
1:08:44This is the only one of its kind. It's a Shopify approved program etcetera etcetera and so it can't be time because this is the fastest way humanly possible you could do it and they'd already seen that in action so then you can cross off time.
1:08:58Don't even remember what close we used then but I could use any number of time closes. At that point, it really didn't matter.
1:09:05What what needs to be done in those situations more than anything, Cole? It's an academic kind of situation. You just gotta give people enough time to sit with the the decision so they can make it on their own.
1:09:17Mhmm. If you are trying to force them to make the decision, it feels uncomfortable.
1:09:21But if they're sitting there listening, they're gonna convince themselves more than you can. Yeah. You know what's so interesting about that?
1:09:27How I tell my sales team to anchor the sales call in terms of how they think the sales call is going to go is most amateur salespeople, what happens is is they drop the investment, and then their expectation is to get a decision right after they drop the investment, which is at the end.
1:09:44Yeah. Right? And so then what happens is is if that's their expectation and it doesn't go that way, what happens?
1:09:51You can even see it in their energy. It goes up. They start to get frustrated.
1:09:54They get a little flustered. They get mad. A lot of times, they get mad at the prospect, which you can't really influence somebody if you're angry at them.
1:10:00No. So I tell them, you need to anchor your expectation that, yes, they're gonna move forward after about twenty to twenty five minutes Yep.
1:10:09Of you going through all the objections, all of that stuff. But it's it's anchoring your expectation that, yes, they're going to move forward, but it's not the investment. It's twenty five minutes after the So you're anticipating all of those objections.
1:10:23And you almost, it's like, give me the objection. You want it and you're also prepared for it.
1:10:28And what's weird, I don't know if this is energetic or whatever whatever it is, when you take that stance, you end up getting less of what? The objections. Less.
1:10:35Yeah. Yeah. And I never expect anybody to say yes the first time I ask them to.
1:10:39Right? I'm delightfully surprised when they do. It's unexpected I to
1:10:44expect that we have to sit down and really figure this out. Because for most people, here's what I know psychologically, committing to a bigger future, which is what an investment is, is scary.
1:10:54Mhmm. It's hard. It's a new set of responsibilities.
1:10:58And so I don't expect them to very easily bring that on. I don't expect them to immediately say, okay, that all makes sense.
1:11:06Let's go, baby. I know it's gonna be a big decision. I know that it's tough.
1:11:11And so I just expect us to have to get down and figure it out. And legitimately, it's not shtick, Cole.
1:11:17I literally am just trying to help them make the decision that's best for them. I really literally am. That's not just saying that or it's not lip service.
1:11:27I gotta figure out if it makes sense for them or not. Now, I know if our targeting is correct, it is unlikely that it won't make sense to them.
1:11:34Mhmm. But I just gotta figure it out. I gotta understand their model of reality if we wanna get super geeky on this shit.
1:11:40I gotta elicit their model of reality of how they make decisions and then we gotta put this through that process and then I'll know whether or not it makes sense for them to make that decision. Well, for people listening, what does that mean?
1:11:50Elicit their model of reality. Yeah. So, you gotta figure out how do they know when something is a good decision and when something isn't a good decision.
1:11:57Their criteria. Their criteria. And most of this is subconscious.
1:12:01So, you gotta sit down with them. So, I'll give you an example. I I sold from the stage two months ago.
1:12:06So, when I sell for clients and I go in person, it's $50,000 for the day. So client pays me, I had to come in the night before, speak and pitch that day and fly out that day.
1:12:15So he pays me a $100,000. Well worth it I might add. So I get in there, I write a whole presentation for scratch.
1:12:21It took me like fifty hours to write this damn presentation. So when people hear numbers a 100,000, like it doesn't just fall out of the sky. Like we work our ass off for this.
1:12:31Everything is considered. I have ninety minutes to sell an audience cold on a $10,000 product from the stage.
1:12:37And I did and I did. I did really well in the room.
1:12:42And then, I'm outside of the room and I I have no percentages for the clients. It's a flat fee. So there's no I don't make extra if I close any more people but I'm the salesperson, right?
1:12:52It's in my nature. I might be able to sell. And it's so funny because my wife was standing there with me.
1:12:56This lady comes up and she says, oh my god, this is such a cool product. I'm thinking about buying. I think about maybe buying it later.
1:13:04And I'm like, okay, cool.
1:13:07Why would you buy it later as opposed to now? And she says, well, don't know. I got this other program.
1:13:12I got this other thing. I got this other thing. I say, okay, Wouldn't this help those other things that you told me that you have?
1:13:18Isn't this synergistic to those things or not? Help me understand this. And she goes, yeah.
1:13:21I don't know. Okay. I'll I'll I'll see you later.
1:13:24And she starts to walk away. She goes, I'm gonna think about it though. And as she's walking away, and it's so funny because my wife saw this.
1:13:29I said, how long? And she stops dead in her tracks and she looks at me. How long are you gonna think it over for?
1:13:36That was what I asked her because she kept saying, I'm gonna think it over. How long? Just two words.
1:13:40And then she comes back to me and it's so funny. She's like hunches over, comes back to you. She's like, I don't have the money.
1:13:46Here's my financial situation. And she bears her soul to me and she tells me really she couldn't buy. Like she was not in a financial situation where she could, so you don't sell to that person, obviously.
1:13:57But it was so funny how that question, how long? And she says, need to think about it.
1:14:02How long? Broke her whole pattern. Mhmm.
1:14:05Because the decision making criteria of thinking about it wasn't relevant. Now, in a lot of cases, it is.
1:14:11So with a lot of clients, I'll say to them what they say, I need to think about it. How will you know when you've thought about it properly in order to make a decision? That's one of the ways you can ask them that question.
1:14:20And then you run through the process. And oftentimes with clients, they'll say, well, once I know I'm successful with it then I'll do it.
1:14:27They'll say stupid shit like that which makes no sense but this is how they make decisions. And then I'll say to them all like, okay, well, how would you be successful without first buying the program? How is it possible to get success first without doing the thing?
1:14:42And they'll be like, oh, yeah. That's not possible. Are you open to an alternative way to consider this?
1:14:48Yes, I am. And then you start to work through the process. And everybody has a different decision making criteria.
1:14:53Mhmm. And so the fun thing is is unraveling how they make choices and then lining this up to see if it makes sense within their situation or not.
1:15:04I like one to many because I can do this with a thousand people at once and why person a is going through their process and giving me information, I'm working on person b and while they're doing that I'm working on person c and then I'm coming back to person a. Person d is listening to me talk through a b and c and they're trying it on in their own life.
1:15:23And then it doesn't have to be one thing, although sometimes it is for each person. It could be a little bit of thing a, a little bit of thing b, and a little bit of thing c. So I like doing it at scale but it doesn't matter whether it's one to one, one to few or one to many, what we're doing is we're figuring out how people make decisions.
1:15:39Everybody has a process in how they make decisions. And it's so fun how different they all are.
1:15:47Yeah. Like in Iman's, it was like, how do I get my parents to pay for the investment?
1:15:55So we had to walk through that process. Yeah. And how did you do it?
1:15:59Multiple ways. So what's fun is like people think, well, I have this objection if I answer it in this one way then that's good. But the reality is you should give people multiple ways in which they can consider solving that problem.
1:16:11And so one way is you know, I I said to the audience, say, well listen, you gotta ask yourself, if you're coming to your parents, what do they really want for you? What do your parents really want from you as a child? Do they want you to be successful?
1:16:26Initiative? Do they want you to take on responsibility? Do they want you to make decisions that will help you grow into an adult who can contribute to society?
1:16:35What would make them proud of you? And so I get them in their minds. I said, when you approach them and you have a conversation with them, these are the things that you have to bring up.
1:16:44So when they say, yes, I would love for you to invest in things to make you better, and yes, I would love to see you go out there and take initiative in your life and show responsibility, then you bring up the fact of why you would like it to be this thing. So I'm giving them the conversation to have with their parents and that's one of the ways that I do it.
1:17:01Now I preface all this stuff, right? Which is great because salesman have bad reputations deservedly so by the way, right?
1:17:08Most sales sales guys are just coke fiends who are trying to make a commission to get their next high. Right?
1:17:13So I you know, I preface it as follows. First of all, I'm like, this is not something you should be investing in at your age as a must have.
1:17:22If it makes sense, do it. And I would never want you to trick your parents, buy this thing and then get nothing out of it.
1:17:30Right? So it's like you have to make sure that you are gonna commit to this and follow this through before you would even consider having that conversation with your parents. Because I'm not trying to like, I don't wanna be looked at as the guy who will take a 14 year old kid's money just to put it in my pocket, right?
1:17:46Right. It's still does this decision serve you or not?
1:17:50But then I would give them alternative ways in which they could also have a conversation with their parents and this is a future pacing technique that most salespeople don't know. I have to brace them for potential disappointment too. So I said it is very possible that your parents can love you, want what's best for you, but not show it in a way that you wish.
1:18:08You could say everything right to your parents, you could have all the best intentions in the world, and they could still say no to you. And you have to prepare for that, and you have to accept that as part of your life. And what you should do is have the motivation that when you get older, you don't have to rely on other people to make decisions for you.
1:18:24You can empower yourself to make the decision and that's one of the reasons that I'm here with you today. So this is closing
1:18:30while also serving the audience independent of whether they buy or not. Yeah. And one thing you do really well is I kinda call it the pendulum swing with my salespeople.
1:18:38But if I had to kinda state it, it's claiming indifference or it's sorry. Stating indifference Correct. And then claiming moral authority.
1:18:46Yep. Right? Which is basically, like, we might not even be able to come to an agreement today, but regardless, like, I need to help you figure out what is that decision and which is best for you.
1:18:55Yeah. That's a 100%. You do that a lot.
1:18:57I just wanted to point that out because you've probably done that, like, five times. Yeah. Maybe six times since we've been talking.
1:19:02Yeah. You know? And so that puts you in a position again where you can pressure harder.
1:19:06Yeah. But also,
1:19:08it's not like you've already given them the out, so to speak. You've kinda released the pressure valve. You have to future pace disappointment.
1:19:15Even when I saw the product, I said, listen, you're gonna sign up for this today. You're gonna be so excited. You're gonna think you can walk through walls, and then you're gonna wake up tomorrow, reality's gonna sit in.
1:19:22Right? Yes. It's gonna be difficult.
1:19:24It's like tying down the sale in one to one selling. Yeah. We want it to stick in one to one.
1:19:28That's probably where I learned it from is you can't it's not just enough to close the sale. If it doesn't stick, that's even worse.
1:19:34You wasted your time and you've still got no commission. But, I always look at it as I want a future pace because the best thing I can do to close on a product is to have successful people tell their friends. And so I want them to win with the product that I'm selling them.
1:19:49So if I don't discipline their disappointment, they'll get in the product and then they'll quit. Because man, we're selling euphoria really when we're pitching.
1:19:57We're talking about the best and we're really building it up, but we also have to embrace them with getting punched in the face, which inevitably will happen. So it's like you're gonna go in and there's gonna be days that it's gonna be difficult, and you're gonna try things and they're not going to work, and this is how we're gonna help you in those And this is the this is really what a winner does.
1:20:17A winner doesn't not have difficulties, a winner handles difficulties with grace. And they're like, damn, this is useful even if I was just watching this as a reel on Instagram.
1:20:27Right? Yeah. Yeah.
1:20:28And it's more authoritative than mostly how I'm being sold which nobody tells me how it's gonna be difficult after I buy. They pretend it's all unicorns and rainbows and it actually increases them being successful and it gets more credibility to make this sale.
1:20:44And it comes across as, again, indifferent. Like, I don't need you to buy this. Like, I'm not desperate for you to purchase this thing.
1:20:52I am a consultant who's helping you navigate a very difficult decision in your life, and I don't want you to be stuck with not making a decision because that doesn't serve you. I just have to figure out what decision makes the most sense for you. If you're enjoying this conversation and you wanna be in a room of people who are just like the people I have on this podcast so you can ultimately network with the highest level people in the industry and uplevel your business, you should fly out to meet us in Scotland at the end of July.
1:21:17So this is a one time opportunity where you can get a ticket to actually be able to come if you qualify to network and get content and ultimately work with me and my team and so many other high level speakers in the industry in Scotland at the end of July.
1:21:31So you have to be doing at least a $100,000 a month in your business to qualify. If not, don't bother with it. But if that's you and you're trying to scale to 10,000,000 or even 20,000,000 or a 100,000,000 a year, there's other people in the room who have done that, and the speakers I'm gonna have in Scotland have done that too.
1:21:48So check out the link in the description and see if you qualify. And if you do, book a call with my team. We'll talk about the ticket price to be able to come.
1:21:54This is the only time you're gonna be able to do this, so take advantage of it. Now back to the podcast. And the other thing you're doing too is you're being honest because what do most salespeople do, they overpromise, overpromise, overpromise.
1:22:05You're telling them it's gonna be hard. Right? But what do what do winners actually do?
1:22:10You did that labeling of the identity there. Yeah.
1:22:13Before we move on, I see it at the end of the call tying down the sale. A lot of salespeople miss that out. The other thing in in terms of future pacing disappointment is when people have to go talk to their spouse.
1:22:23Yeah. And this is like a genuine thing that's super interesting. True.
1:22:26They're like, oh, yeah. My spouse is gonna totally love it. And they don't realize, like, you know, if you ask them a question, well, how are you going to approach your spouse?
1:22:35Yeah. They don't even like, they just fall apart. They haven't even thought it through.
1:22:39Because then what ends up happening is that night or the next day, they're like, okay. Well, how do I exactly tell somebody? I met somebody random off the Internet.
1:22:48And they kinda gave me this pitch. I can't even really explain the pitch because it's solving a problem that I don't understand in my business.
1:22:55Correct. And now I'm trying to convince them to, you know, let me spend $15 on something I just found out yesterday Off the Internet.
1:23:02Off the Internet with this random guy.
1:23:05And so the thing is you have to coach them in terms of how to actually approach and have that conversation. It's the same thing do with that language. Right?
1:23:12So I never encountered the parents' clothes before. That was a new one for me. And it's so much easier when you're in state by the way.
1:23:18Like we're on a podcast right now, but if if there's like the actual pitches happening in the moment and you're Right. In your zone and you're in flow, like I just channel the answer at that point because I know so much technique unconsciously that you can just find the right words.
1:23:31But the spouse close to me is really interesting because in one to many selling it's actually relatively easy. Generally we'll have a period of time before the cart closes and the webinar presentation And so a large part of what we can do is have them bring the spouse on and watch the webinar replay alongside of the person that's doing it.
1:23:51So that's one of the closes that we often use there. Cole, like I have mixed feelings about the whole thing of like, well does your spouse trust you to make good decisions, right? Wouldn't your spouse really like it if you could show initiative and all the I don't even know the closes because I never use them.
1:24:06Yeah. The standard closes like that. I feel a little uncomfortable with that because that's just kinda like, it feels like you're plowing through.
1:24:14I get that it's a function oftentimes in a one to one selling situation.
1:24:19But my my whole thing is like let's bring on the spouse. We'll have a conversation with both of you. Right.
1:24:23We should make decisions jointly if it makes sense. But also at the same time, a lot of times it's a smokescreen too. Exact.
1:24:30That's what I was about to say. I don't actually do a lot of those techniques, but what I do is just and I take my time with it. You gotta slow it I take my time with it.
1:24:38I just start asking a lot of questions to figure out, like, is this something to where they do have a shared bank account? There's probably $25 in the bank account, and we're talking about a $10,000 investment.
1:24:48Obviously, that is something that they're gonna have to collaborate with their spouse on. Yep.
1:24:53Sometimes it's just something they say. They don't even know and it's weird. They just don't even know why they said it.
1:24:59They just kinda, like, blurted it out there, and they don't have a shared bank account. Like, you know, there was there was one we were reviewing this past week. No shared bank account.
1:25:07They're not even married. They're actually engaged. Yep.
1:25:09Right? And so these things are totally separate. And so there's a way where it's like, well, look, you know, why don't you just draw the line in the sand and say, look, you know, the last six months isn't gonna be the next six months.
1:25:21And metaphorically, the line in the sand, step across it, and say that tomorrow is gonna be different from today. Yep.
1:25:26And then worst case, you know, if in a week, your husband's about to, you know, break off the marriage and not even get married to you, we'll just give you a refund. It's not even a problem.
1:25:36Totally. But what I really want you to do is have your husband hop on the onboarding call with us so that they can see everything you're getting because, as I learned from you, you know, are you gonna make a better decision seeing everything from the inside Yeah. Or just me telling you from the outside?
1:25:51Yeah. So and I'm so confident in what we do. I'm willing to expend resources and labor onboarding you Yep.
1:25:58Because I know you're gonna love it anyways. 100%.
1:26:01See, we don't typically sell at the super high price points, Cole, so we don't really run into the spouse objection too much. We're selling like thousand to $3,000 products in mass. But that's a great close where it's like bring your spouse in.
1:26:13If you both don't love it, by the time we're done, we'll make you whole. I'm not here to sell you today. This is step one of our relationship together.
1:26:21Right? Right. I'm here to serve you for the longevity of our relationship.
1:26:25And so, you you giving me money today isn't the end of it. It's the beginning of it. So bring your spouse in, get the lay of the land.
1:26:32If you hate it by the time we're done, I don't want you as a customer. I'll get your money back. And what's funny is, I even future pace what they're probably going to feel so that they have the right decision making criteria of hating it.
1:26:45So I don't say if you decide it's not for you. Yeah. You know, I'm like, you know, and look, I have to have your onboarding call.
1:26:50If you get off that call and you have this pit in your stomach I love that. You have this pit in your stomach and every bone in your body is telling you, you made the wrong decision and you know what?
1:27:04You somehow got in bed with a bunch of scammers from Mexico. Yep. Then, obviously, we would just give your money back.
1:27:10Yeah. That's how I'm making it so extreme. And that's what we always do.
1:27:14Right? It's not like and and and I'll even flip it back. So it's like and this isn't just that after your onboarding call, now you see, hey.
1:27:21We're gonna climb up this mountain together, and it's gonna be a little bit difficult because you're going to feel that way. Yep. And so it's kinda you have to frame these things.
1:27:28And what's so disappointing about a lot of sale I'm, like, frustrated about thinking about my team sometimes with this, is that you just made the sale. You know? And you just gotta it's like that extra 3% effort.
1:27:40Mhmm. It's all it takes Yes. To really
1:27:43lock it in. Yeah. Lock it in.
1:27:45Yeah. And you do the same thing I do. Oh, it's just exaggerating the negative.
1:27:49Yeah. Because then the impulse of the customers to say, well, it can't be that bad. Yeah.
1:27:54And now they're convincing you. Oh, it's not gonna be that bad. Okay.
1:27:56Good. Whatever you say. But hey, listen.
1:27:58If it's the worst train wreck you've ever experienced in your life. Right Yeah. I'm just preparing you that that might be possible.
1:28:04Like, you never know. And then they're like, I can't be that bad. Yeah.
1:28:07So they're now convincing themselves
1:28:09that it's a good decision versus you convincing them that it's a good decision. Exactly. So tell me about the plan Mhmm.
1:28:14The wiggle wiggle. Yeah. Tell me about all of that.
1:28:17So how did that come about and just overall what it was, what was the strategies, everything? Yeah. So
1:28:23I get my business partner says, hey, listen. You're gonna take a meeting.
1:28:27I'm not gonna tell you what it is, it's gonna be a favor to me. I'm gonna put it on your calendar and you're just gonna show up and just listen and then we can make a decision afterwards. And I'm like, okay, I will.
1:28:38So, we got on a meeting with a guy named Dan Hollings. Now, we go back with Dan to 2010. We published a product that he did on mobile marketing back then when the web was going mobile and it was this new thing and we did really well.
1:28:50And we did some stuff with Dan also in the Amazon space on the back end of of ASM. We did some stuff with Dan and that went really well. So like every five years, Dan comes to us with some new idea because he's like this mad scientist in the lab genius level.
1:29:04And this time he comes to us. So we get on this call and it's about crypto. I hate crypto.
1:29:09This is why I had to be tricked to get on the call because if I would have been like, oh, he's got this crypto thing, I'd have been like, canceled. I don't want anything to do with crypto. I I think crypto is stupid.
1:29:18So but we get on this call and Dan shows us what he's doing in the crypto space which I immediately loved for three reasons. Reason number one is it was different. I like selling things that are different, not better than but similar to other stuff that exist.
1:29:36The second thing is he turned the disadvantage into the advantage which was crypto was considered extremely volatile back then. That was the number one thing the market said, it's volatile. I don't wanna play in it.
1:29:45It's too volatile. I'm scary. It's volatile.
1:29:47So we're like volatility is actually what makes this work. So that's the second reason I liked it. Third reason was is the risk factor that we talked about.
1:29:55The whole thing about this was making very small amounts of money repetitively and you could set up these bots as he ran them and they would wiggle up and down based on the volatility and you would trade and you would take gains all the way up and down like 3¢ at a time, 5¢ at a time, 9¢ at a time, but some of these bots could wiggle off $10.15, $20.30 dollars a day.
1:30:17Now, Cole, this sounds insane But this is how it works. If somebody pays you like $3,500 and they make $10 tomorrow, they are over the moon.
1:30:28Mhmm. Because 99.9% of instances when they buy a program online, they never see any money ever.
1:30:37And so just to validate that it's real with an actual win the very day after you spend money on the program, I knew was such a powerful advantage for selling this offer.
1:30:49Now, I always look at everything of what's this excuse that would stop somebody from buying this program, whatever I'm launching, and we try to eliminate the constraints before we do anything else. And the big constraint here was Dan had done it and it worked for him.
1:31:03Dan had six friends that he showed how to do it and it worked for them. But the problem was they're his friends and they were all successful people already.
1:31:10Mhmm. Like in business. So they were business people who were successful who were his friends and none of them paid him any money.
1:31:15It was free. So the price anchor is free, that's not good. Second thing is they're his friends so they could say anything he tell them to say.
1:31:23Like obviously, he's not lying, we don't mislead, but the consumer's gonna think, well your friends are gonna lie because a lot of douchebag gurus do that.
1:31:32Their friend comes in and says whatever they want them and then there's your testimonials. Super deceptive, right? So I said we have to make it definitive to the audience that people like them who are strangers, who don't know you, who may or may not be business people, who may or may not have any experience in this, who may or may not have a lot of money can make this work.
1:31:53And so we've launched a beta test and I've done this for so many clients and this is what really prints the money because at the end of the day the number one thing that will sell more than anything else is if you can say here's every customer's result. Not just the good ones or not just a few of them that are cherry picked, literally all of them.
1:32:12Here's the ones that did good, here's the ones that did okay, and here's the ones that shit the bed, right? I'll just show you them all and then you can decide and that's what we did. So we went out to our audience and we said, hey listen, we got this thing, we don't know if it's gonna work or not which is my favorite pitch of all time.
1:32:27I got this idea, I don't know if it'll work, I'm looking for people to try it out on, I only want you in if you can give me this amount of money and be okay if you lost every penny of it. So this is the frame that we set. So I'm like, I got this thing, it's worked for me because Dan showed me how to do it, so I did it and it worked and it worked for Dan, it worked for everybody we tried it to, but I don't know if it'll work for strangers.
1:32:49So we had 18 people pay us $10,000 apiece to get one on one coaching from Dan to help them set it up, and we made them agree that we could share their results of all their open active trades whenever we wanted to whoever we wanted, and we made them do it in a third party software so there could be no funny business. Because I'm thinking five moves ahead.
1:33:09When I get on a webinar, I don't want anybody to say, oh, well, it's a spreadsheet, you can put any numbers in there or oh, it's a screenshot. So you could change a screenshot. These were real live portfolios that if I pulled them up on a webinar, you could literally see in real time as money was being made and money was being lost.
1:33:27And then I had all 18 of them. So when we get on this webinar, we literally showed the whole data set.
1:33:34So we have two really powerful things going for us. One is more proof than you could ever imagine from everybody in real time, undeniable, easy to demonstrate. The second thing is all these people paid us $10,000.
1:33:48So when we sold the program initially, we sold it for $2,500. So price anchor is these people over here who are successful paid 10,000, you pay one fourth of that for a better product because Dan taught them one on one manually, then we took that and we put it into a course.
1:34:07And so it's not the same thing, but it's similar, and when we did the course launch, we launched that in beta because we're like, we don't know exactly how much we need to teach you. We don't even know in what order we should teach it in.
1:34:19We don't even know the best way to teach it. So we might have to do sessions over again more than once. But if you wanna be part of our pilot group program, our group coaching program, you can get in for $2,500 instead of 3,500 which is what we're gonna price this when we go public and we get out of beta.
1:34:37So we went from the $10,000 launch, we saw all of those results, we rolled that out two weeks later into our first beta group at $2,500 and then we immediately pulled in millions in sales.
1:34:48We took them through the program for a month, we launched again in a month, and we did a beta two of the group, and we made it better than beta one because in real time we're fixing the product, we're making it better, we're making it better, we're optimizing it. We launch it again, that does really good. We launch it a third time in beta, that does really good.
1:35:06We're up to 20,000,000 in sales already within the span of two months from scratch.
1:35:13And then we do the big launch where then we have everything laid out now, we have all of the course locked in, we have the bonuses, we have the pitch perfected, and then we did that launch. And between the betas and that big launch, we did $57,900,000 in two hundred and twenty six days from that first meeting that I got tricked into until cart closed.
1:35:32And so you systematically stacked a ton of proof Yeah. Throughout that process. Right?
1:35:37Would you say the offer is the most important and proof is number two? Yeah.
1:35:41And I mean, they're hand in hand. Right? Like, you can't separate the two from each other in my opinion because part of the offer is something so valuable that it gets better results than anything else on the market.
1:35:52That makes sense. Now, Makes sense. Some people have proof.
1:35:54I had a client once that I was writing webinars for and she had a testimonial from Tony Blair, the the prime minister of UK. At the time, he had just finished being the prime minister and it was never used in her webinar. Oh my god.
1:36:08So I'm like, here's my genius idea of why you pay me so much big buddy. We're going to use this testimonial. And she's like, oh, we should use that?
1:36:15I'm like, yeah, we should use that. So valuable proof that is not deployed is worthless.
1:36:20So you have to think of here's my offer and here's my proof and here's the best way to demonstrate and show and deliver the proof. And this is why we're a big fan of beta tests. Let's launch an idea, see if we can get the proof for it and then if we can, we only have the perfect ingredients to do a real big launch.
1:36:38So and then one thing that you did really well with that launch is
1:36:43obviously a bot and how it works and how it's unique, different, superior than whatever other bot or whatever other options they have with crypto, probably could be a little bit complex. Yeah.
1:36:53And so you condense that all the way down to it wiggles. Yeah.
1:36:58Right? And I call that kitchen wait. Wait.
1:37:00Kitchen table logic. Right? You condense it down to Yeah.
1:37:04Something simple that you could tell them, here's the reason why it works over mom and pop's kitchen table. Yep.
1:37:10Right? So how do you think about that process and how did that actually happen? Yeah.
1:37:14And so
1:37:15Dan came up with the wiggle, which I like. Dan always has these really cool names. What we used on the webinar that really made the big difference, and we saw this early on.
1:37:23This is why I like doing webinars, especially at the beginning and testing the idea, because we usually get it wrong. And then the audience shows us that they don't understand what we're talking about because we're too we're too close to it.
1:37:35We're too expert in it. We don't know how to speak the parlance of the regular person. Right.
1:37:39And we say, oh we're missing him here. Well, that's okay. We got a webinar tomorrow.
1:37:42We'll fix it and then we'll be good. And so, we recognize that people couldn't understand. In their mind, here's what they thought.
1:37:49If I buy a coin at 20 and it goes to ten, they feel like they've just lost 50% of their money. They haven't.
1:37:56You only lose when you sell. But they just couldn't get out of this idea of how could the coin go down but yet I make money because we had a situation where coins could go down and make money and not with short selling or all this complicated stuff. So we came up with this metaphor and the metaphor is the soul of pitching in my opinion to really connect it to a market.
1:38:19We said, want you to imagine a scenario where you could buy a piece of real estate, okay. So you go down, you buy this prime piece of real estate, it's $10,000 and you feel really good about the purchase, but the next day the bank calls you up and say, hey, we appraised it, it's actually only worth 5,000.
1:38:35I'm like, how much money did you lose? And everybody's like, 5,000. I go, no, you didn't lose anything, right?
1:38:39Because you haven't sold it yet. And you don't care what it appraises at because you have the tenant. You have the best tenant to ever exist.
1:38:46He's a tenant that pays you rent. And he doesn't pay you rent once a month, he pays you rent every single day. Now, he'll sometimes pay you $5 a day, sometimes he'll pay you $10 a day, sometimes he'll pay you $15 a day.
1:38:57But he pays you something every single day and he never calls you about the roof leaking, and he never bothers you, and he never has to give you any of the headache that a normal landlord would get. Now here's the thing about real estate, what does it tend to do over time? It tends to go up.
1:39:12So if it appraises at 5,000 a day and two years from now it sells at $50,000 and you wanna lock that in and take the money off the table, you got in at ten, you got out at 50, you made a lot of money. But in the meantime, you made cash flow.
1:39:26So while you're building potential equity which may or may not realize, you are putting real money in your pocket every single day and you can have as many tenants as you want and you can buy as many pieces of real estate as you want. And they got that.
1:39:40So it took us a couple webinars to lock that in and dial it in but then it made sense. They're like, oh, this isn't me buying crypto, this is cash flow with the potential one day to liquidate my position and actually make a lump sum investment and that was all it took.
1:39:58Once they saw that, once they saw the proof and then we call it the wiggle because they could see it go up and down then they got that. Of course we took twenty minutes to explain the specifics but you do that more to legitimize it not because people truly understand it but because it feels more believable when you explain.
1:40:16You're basically saying here's the light switch, I flip it on, see the light, I flip it off, light goes away. Okay now here's how electricity works. Nobody really cares how electricity works, but then they believe that the light switch will work because there is you are so knowledgeable about electricity.
1:40:32But they just want the light switch, which by the way is another metaphor for you. Oh, know. Well, speaking of metaphors, so you use that metaphor
1:40:39to create the belief that that one of the beliefs at least that they need to believe to be true Yep. To buy, right, to really get it.
1:40:46Do you have I mean, is it intuitive how you create metaphors when you're kinda coming up with this stuff? Unfortunately. Is it like a process of working through different live webinars with the audience and then you're kind of like iterating and getting it?
1:40:59So, you know, I've had thousands of hours of practice at this point. But my business partner and I we would sit there and we would spend hours on an offer just
1:41:08auditioning potential metaphors and then finding the weak points in those metaphors. Well, this one won't work because this would be what the prospect might think.
1:41:16Well, what if we tried it this way? What if we adjusted this? So after a while, it does become intuitive.
1:41:21But one of the things I do for my clients when I consult with them is very often we sit there and we'll spend thirty, forty minutes just going back and forth to find that metaphor that has no weaknesses in it or no think that somebody would say, well what about this? Because no metaphor is logical by the way.
1:41:37It's just a way for people to understand something but they will step into that metaphor. This is why we had to add on, hey you have this tenant and initially it was just a tenant and somebody says, well I have a tenant in real estate and he calls me up at three in the morning and it's a pain in the ass. So we added in the language.
1:41:52This is a special tenant. Right? And then they're like, my tenant pays me by the month.
1:41:57Okay. Well this tenant pays you by the day. So But the overarching metaphor worked and then we fine tuned it and we made it stronger.
1:42:04But man, this is missing in most people's pitches is they don't have a good metaphor.
1:42:09I bet. And I bet outside I I would take a wager. You tell me if I'm right.
1:42:13Outside of the closing work you do with clients or like the very intro. Yeah. When you're looking at, let's say, their slides or their presentation or their content, tell me if I'm wrong, but I bet probably 90% of it in the content in the middle is probably taking stuff that's intangible and making it concrete Yeah.
1:42:31Through metaphors, show versus tell. Like, that's what I bet.
1:42:35Because I even know when I write stuff, whether it's a new VSL or even, like, I'm going through and writing a new way we're going to pitch this thing on the phone Yeah. Or whatever. Oftentimes, I get too intellectual.
1:42:48Me too. Yeah. Right?
1:42:49And it's, like, too logic, and it's, I can't put my finger on nothing of this exists. Like, I can't put my finger on it. And that's you know, I don't know if you know who Travis Sego is.
1:42:57Yeah. He taught me the you gotta be able to write your copy in a way where you could touch your finger to it. Don't say, do you not have any leads?
1:43:05Say, does your calendar look like this? Yeah. Right.
1:43:07And that's showing versus telling. Exactly. You can see that.
1:43:11And that's true. So with clients on the content portion of the webinar, which by the way is the one we spend the least amount of time on. Right.
1:43:16Generally, with clients, it's like, what's the offer? How can we improve the offer? That's where we start is is there.
1:43:21And then generally after that, it's like, well, how do we remove the risk? And then after that, it's well, you're saying all these things but why should anybody believe you because they have no proof or they have they have proof but it's not sufficient proof. But once once we get to the content, generally what we have to do and in 2026, this is new, a lot of people haven't caught on to this yet Cole.
1:43:42There used to be a time in business where if you showed somebody something and and they weren't sure of how to do it, you lost them. Because it was either they had to learn it there on the spot Mhmm.
1:43:51Or they had no other option. Nowadays, it's like, okay, just go to YouTube and figure this out. Yeah.
1:43:56AI. Or AI. So, you don't have to tell them procedural stuff nearly as much as you're used to.
1:44:02Fact, we almost do none of that anymore. Now, show them what they need to do to find the right stuff when they go and search for it on their own. Yep.
1:44:11This is what good information looks like as opposed to here is the good information. So we do more why and what and less how. But what we most often do in the content portion is the setup.
1:44:23People will go in cold, but let me show you how to do x y and z. Let me show you how to do one, two and three. But, they don't set the stakes up before they make the point.
1:44:31So, they just jam it right down the throat of the person, the point that they're gonna make.
1:44:37And, we can do this with an example. Give me an How do you set up the stakes? Just give me something and I'll show you.
1:44:43Just an offer to sell? Uh, a point to make even. Right?
1:44:46A point to make. So Oh, like, what like a point I'm making in my webinar. In your webinar.
1:44:50Yeah. So we'll say that it's for you know, I we used to have an offer that would teach the everyday person who's, let's say, in insurance sales. Let's just say, they're insurance sales or real estate sales or something like that.
1:45:01They're in a relational selling field that's really high highly susceptible to interest rates. Yeah. And they're really mad that the interest rates have gone up, and they're probably not gonna go back down.
1:45:09Mhmm. And they're like, okay. I wanna get into this new high ticket industry.
1:45:13Correct. Right? And so let's say my first point that I'm making is I'm trying to make the point to establish the pain.
1:45:21Mhmm. Right? That like, hey.
1:45:22You're over here. Yeah. This is a dying field or whatever I'm gonna say.
1:45:26Yep. And then I gotta get them into the motivation that they gotta get out of that. Correct.
1:45:31Yep. Yeah. So the point that I could make it, I I could say to them, I I wanna ask you a question.
1:45:35If you were on a boat and it was sinking and it was taking on more and more water,
1:45:40what would you do? Is it better to patch that boat or if you saw a bigger better boat just a little bit down the horizon that you could jump off of your boat and swim to, what do you think would be a better option, right?
1:45:52Well you gotta be able to swim there. It's gotta be the right boat. They gotta accept you and they gotta take you on.
1:45:56But don't you think it's a better strategy than trying to fill the holes in a boat that's sinking, that's moving away from a destination that no longer exists?
1:46:05Yeah. Dude. And then you make the point.
1:46:07Right? Do you wanna know what the first line of my ad was when we ran that offer? What's that?
1:46:12Uh, this single quote by Warren Buffett took me from a broke struggling salesperson to making more than a neurosurgeon in a single year. Oh, the quote is, it's not how hard that you row It's the boat.
1:46:22It's what boat Yeah, baby. That you're in. Yeah.
1:46:24And then I go into the explanation. It's so funny we found the same one, but, um, and it was funny when we And that's just off the top. Right?
1:46:31Like, if we sat down and analyzed it, we could probably come up with other setups too. Yeah. That's good.
1:46:36So you consulted, you know, obviously, a bunch of people, but Hormozi, um, one of his re his recent Yeah. Launch where he did over a 100,000,000.
1:46:43Yep. Um, what were some of the things that maybe you helped him with? And then also, I'm just curious your overall thoughts on, like, what do you think he did really well?
1:46:52Because has there been a launch that has been bigger than that kind of in our space?
1:46:59No. That's the biggest one. He broke my record.
1:47:01Yeah. Okay. So he he holds the record.
1:47:03He holds the title. So what do you think he's done so well? And then what were some of the things you helped him with?
1:47:07So Alex has done everything
1:47:11well more than anybody I've ever seen. Right? So if you if you were to use a metaphor like a football team, generally if they have a really good quarterback and a really good wide receivers, then they throw a lot.
1:47:22But they don't have a good ground game. They're not They don't have a great running back. Or if maybe they miraculously have both the run game and the pass game solved, maybe their defense isn't great.
1:47:32But imagine they also had the best defense in the league. Mhmm. And then imagine they had the best special teams in the league too for kicking it off and returning it.
1:47:39No team really ever is excellent in every single area because the cost that it takes to be excellent on offense usually comes at the expense of defense. Right? So I spend all my time on conversion for the most part.
1:47:52So I'm not the greatest at lead generation. I'm decent at it but I'm not world class, right? And I'm not necessarily building products anymore because then that would take me away from staying on the conversion side.
1:48:04So I live mostly in the land of conversion. And then by the way, if you are selling products, you usually have less time to build your social media presence Mhmm. Because you're too busy servicing clients, right?
1:48:15So almost everything has a trade off. Alex is the only person I've ever seen to be excellent at so many different functions of a business simultaneously that chain together because their advertising for that launch was insanely effective.
1:48:30The funnel for the upsells before they even did the book launch were incredibly dialed in.
1:48:37And then the offer itself was masterful and how it was built up and then the pitching of the offer was incredible and then it's self published and self fulfilled. So the fulfillment was insane, and as a brand, they're incredibly, they're the best at social in our space.
1:48:55Usually. And they do paid. You usually have to do one or the other.
1:48:59You can't be great, you can't be the best at paid and the best at social. And by the way, you usually have to rely on agencies to do some things and that is a trade off.
1:49:08It's better to do it in house, but how can you do everything in house? And so they were able to do more things that you could chain together at a level of excellence than anybody I've ever seen. Yeah.
1:49:18I mean, I would say he's just full stack is Like, how I would put
1:49:22he has all of I mean, he's very very good. And and what's interesting too is when I look at what he does, it's nothing that is like, oh my gosh.
1:49:30That's so crazy complex a lot of times. I mean, some of the stuff, I mean, it is really complex.
1:49:36But it's just the fundamentals done at a 10 out of 10 level across all of the fundamentals. Yeah. I've never seen anybody like it.
1:49:42So, it's really incredible. So, when you look at the actual, let's say how the presentation was structured. Yeah.
1:49:48Right? What do you think he did well? And and anything is maybe you helped him maybe nudge this way or the other way.
1:49:52Yeah. So, I did consulting on the last book launch and the book launch before it. Got it.
1:49:57So some of what we did on the second book launch which was a $100,000,000 leads automatically bled over into this book launch. Because one of the things that I said to him on the second book launch it short. It was like 45 minutes the whole pitch.
1:50:10He came to me and he was like, I'm looking at doing a webinar like this and it was a traditional webinar but you don't have to do that at all. I'm like, you need to tell a story for thirty minutes and then you need to drop and sell after thirty minutes. It's not a normal structure of a webinar.
1:50:23So they adjusted that And, you know, I'm a fan of selling forever as we discussed. So, on this last call, goes, don't worry.
1:50:30This time, we're gonna go long. And, they did go long. Right?
1:50:33Super long. Super long, which is super smart. Yeah.
1:50:36And, they did that And, everybody thought that was gonna like ruin his brand or something. You know, all the Twitter people? Yeah.
1:50:42I don't think it mattered at all. It didn't matter at You can't tell. So, on the second consult that we did for $100,000,000 leads, the first question I asked Alex when we started consulting was, why?
1:50:54Like why do you want to cash in right now on all the brand equity that you built up because we consulted for hours just on an offer stack for a $100,000,000 leads which he ultimately didn't do. His launch was my book is free or if you wanna buy a couple copies, one or three copies I think he had an AB offer, buy it.
1:51:16So like he did a big build up to sell a $10 product at the end of the day which is genius. And he came up with that all on his own because he came to me and we were talking about how to create offers. And so a lot of that then became what we saw on the third launch here.
1:51:30The one thing that I definitely remember us having a conversation on that I think was done really well is he came to me and he asked me questions about the VIP upsell before the live event took place. And I said to him I go here's ideally what you would want to strive for if possible but generally you can achieve is you wanna have the price so low that you get as many buyers as you possibly can before the event takes place.
1:51:56Because if people can pay you money before you then do the big launch, they have an identity of a customer. I pay you money and a good thing happens. So therefore, right after that when you ask me to pay you money again, I have a pattern.
1:52:10I give you money and good things happen. And so this is what I said to him because he was talking about prices. I'm like, if you can get that price as low as possible, that's preferable because then you can get as many buyers as you possibly can.
1:52:21I said, generally you can't do that because the ad cost, you gotta offset that. But if you don't care or if the conversions are so good, then you wanna lower that price on that initial upsell. And then he liquidated so much that that was proof that the money model works.
1:52:33So there was a live demonstration Live demonstration. In a sense during the presentation. Oh, yeah.
1:52:37And that's what Alex is incredibly good at is if it's a $100,000,000 Yeah. Launch and they do a $100,000,000 on the launch, super duper powerful.
1:52:47So they were able to liquidate ad spend before they even went live, which is crazy.
1:52:53Yeah. Now I think from a presentation standpoint, I don't think it would have mattered too much what he did one way or the other cause the offer was so incredible that you just have to check the boxes like in the presentation.
1:53:06Now you could try to max the presentation out as much as possible, but the offer was so incredible because he's done it better than any client that I've ever coached which is the more you can associate a dollar figure to the deliverable, the more valuable it's perceived by the customers.
1:53:22So when Alex did x number of consults one on one that he charges money for, like I know you paid Alex like a quarter million dollars or something like that, right? That's a price anchor. So if he takes I think he had $3,500,000 in consulting that he trained his AI on.
1:53:38So now when he gives you the first of its kind, Alex AI that he's offering exclusively, I mean initially exclusively at this launch, the price anchor is $3,500,000 because the only way you could have access to this knowledge before is if you paid him for consulting and he has the proof to show that this is what people paid him for, so therefore this is what this is worth.
1:54:02And he did that for so many different deliverables and this is what I teach everybody to do. You want something that is has such a high established value to it that also simultaneously nobody could buy otherwise because it gives you the best of both worlds.
1:54:16You can't have this but look at how much money it's worth and I have something that is easy for you to say, well, yeah, it is worth that much. Mhmm. And he did that better than anybody I've ever seen.
1:54:26Yeah. And and the brand is also obviously Oh, yeah. A superpower.
1:54:30Yeah. But like you said, I think a lot of people will attribute it to
1:54:34I mean, you know, people try to generalize delete the store. Right? Yeah.
1:54:37Because they can't understand. So a lot of people condense things. They'd like to wanna fy things.
1:54:41Mhmm. So it's just the brand, or it's just that, you know, Layla's such a good operator. It's just this or or it's the mustache.
1:54:47Who knows? Right? But, um, obviously, he does a lot of things well.
1:54:52The brand is something that I think a lot of us have felt in terms of, you know, us missing out on that a little bit. Not that we need to have his big of a brand, but how much that does help even if you're naturally more of a direct response company.
1:55:05And the way I like to tell this story of when I really first was like, f. Like, I I totally get this now. Is I have a client who you would know who it is.
1:55:15Like, top five. I mean, he's up there with Alex. Top five.
1:55:18And I looked at his ads one day, and they were so bad. I was like, these ads are the worst ads I've ever seen.
1:55:24Not the worst ads I've ever seen, but I was like, if I ran these ads, they would not work. Like, I could tell you with a 10 out of 10 certainty, they were not gonna work. Yep.
1:55:31So then, like, a couple months goes by, I just kinda noted that in my brain. And then I was talking to somebody in their team. I'm like, how the ads doing?
1:55:36And then they explained the overall, like, ROAS, cost per acquisition, all that stuff of those ads. They were, like, five times better than my ads. Yeah.
1:55:43And it's just because Liberty effect. Of that, you know. It's when they're serving an ad, it might be the twentieth or thirtieth.
1:55:50The the ad's first impression might be your twentieth or thirtieth impression. Interaction with an audience. And even if it's a cold audience pixel targeting or whatever.
1:56:00It's so the pixel really finds, like, who is already interacting with this person's content. And so I almost think, like, the future is really not just organic or because it's kinda hard, depending on the platform, it's hard to really consistently sell on organic.
1:56:15Correct. Right? Like Yeah.
1:56:16On especially with what I do, like a day to day selling. Yeah. You know, we're only gonna post, like, one YouTube video a week.
1:56:21Yeah. Right? So it's hard to get, like, enough volume from the day to day, but you can get a ton of impressions.
1:56:27And then I just want you know, for me, I might it might not my ad might not be the twentieth thing you've seen, but if I can take it from the first to the fifth, I'm gonna get lower CPMs and an edge 100%. On that.
1:56:37If you enjoyed this podcast, you're also probably gonna like this podcast I also did recently that you can check out by clicking the screen right here.
The Hook

The bait, then the rug-pull.

There is exactly one person behind most of the record-breaking launches in the online marketing world. He does not run ads, he does not build funnels, and he has no interest in your email list. Jason Fladlien shows up thirty days before a launch, rewrites the pitch, and leaves with a check, having done $250M across nineteen years of one-to-many selling at the highest levels the industry has ever seen.

CTA Breakdown

How they asked for the click.

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Launches83:10Frame at 85:34 from Meet The Genius That Industry Leaders Hire For $100M Launches85:34Frame at 86:36 from Meet The Genius That Industry Leaders Hire For $100M Launches86:36Frame at 87:44 from Meet The Genius That Industry Leaders Hire For $100M Launches87:44Frame at 89:25 from Meet The Genius That Industry Leaders Hire For $100M Launches89:25Frame at 90:45 from Meet The Genius That Industry Leaders Hire For $100M Launches90:45Frame at 92:24 from Meet The Genius That Industry Leaders Hire For $100M Launches92:24Frame at 94:29 from Meet The Genius That Industry Leaders Hire For $100M Launches94:29Frame at 94:58 from Meet The Genius That Industry Leaders Hire For $100M Launches94:58Frame at 96:21 from Meet The Genius That Industry Leaders Hire For $100M Launches96:21Frame at 98:36 from Meet The Genius That Industry Leaders Hire For $100M Launches98:36Frame at 99:19 from Meet The Genius That Industry Leaders Hire For $100M Launches99:19Frame at 100:59 from Meet The Genius That Industry Leaders Hire For $100M Launches100:59Frame at 102:09 from Meet The Genius That Industry Leaders Hire For $100M Launches102:09Frame at 104:14 from Meet The Genius That Industry Leaders Hire For $100M Launches104:14Frame at 105:30 from Meet The Genius That Industry Leaders Hire For $100M Launches105:30Frame at 106:35 from Meet The Genius That Industry Leaders Hire For $100M Launches106:35Frame at 108:07 from Meet The Genius That Industry Leaders Hire For $100M Launches108:07Frame at 109:40 from Meet The Genius That Industry Leaders Hire For $100M Launches109:40Frame at 111:37 from Meet The Genius That Industry Leaders Hire For $100M Launches111:37Frame at 112:29 from Meet The Genius That Industry Leaders Hire For $100M Launches112:29Frame at 113:51 from Meet The Genius That Industry Leaders Hire For $100M Launches113:51Frame at 115:42 from Meet The Genius That Industry Leaders Hire For $100M Launches115:42
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