Modern Creator
Why Modern Creator?
Cole Gordon · YouTube

How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months

Cole Gordon and Brian Ostermiller reconstruct how they built four eight-figure sales teams, covering hiring, leadership, live objection handling, and the financial close framework that changed everything.

Posted
2 months ago
Duration
Format
Interview
educational
Views
3.3K
98 likes
Big Idea

The argument in one line.

Hitting eight figures fast is less about having a great product and more about absolute certainty in the outcome, relentless aggression in execution, and treating your sales team as human beings who need to be led, not just managed.

Who This Is For

Read if. Skip if.

READ IF YOU ARE…
  • You run a high-ticket coaching, consulting, or info-product business and want a real playbook for building a sales team that doesn't constantly churn.
  • You're a closer or setter who wants to understand the craft at the level of someone who's closed hundreds of millions and reverse-engineered every word.
  • You're a founder who has tried hiring salespeople and watched them fail, and you're not sure whether the problem is recruiting, training, or leadership.
  • You manage a sales team and want concrete frameworks for objection handling, ramp evaluation, and emotional regulation under pressure.
SKIP IF…
  • You're looking for marketing or funnel tactics — this is almost entirely about sales leadership and the mechanics of closing.
  • You run a low-ticket or e-commerce business where transactional volume matters more than call-based selling.
  • You want a polished, scripted course format — this is an unscripted two-hour conversation with tangents and inside stories.
TL;DR

The full version, fast.

Two partners who built RCA from zero to $1M/month in eight months debrief the real moves: zero doubt, maximum aggression, and accepting the operational debt that comes with fast growth. The bulk of the conversation is a practical masterclass on every layer of a sales team — how to recruit for assertiveness and rate of learning over mock-call performance, how to ramp reps in two weeks by tightening the feedback loop, how to develop sales managers who coach rather than just produce, and how to handle every major objection (think it over, spouse, price, past burn, financial) with specific language that actually works. The final thirty minutes contain the most densely tactical objection frameworks in the episode, including the financial objection breakdown that the hosts have collectively used more than any other technique.

Free for members

Chat with this breakdown — free.

Sign in and you get 23 free chat messages on us — ask for the hook, quote a framework, find the exact transcript moment, generate a markdown action plan. Bring your own key when you want unlimited.

Create a free account →
Voices

Who's talking.

00:00hostCole Gordon
00:00guestBrian Ostermiller
Chapters

Where the time goes.

00:00 – 02:06

01 · The RCA origin story

The Sunday-morning callback that launched RCA, $80K in month one, and how the first three months were purely scrappy iteration — no master plan.

02:06 – 06:39

02 · Selling in 2021 vs. 2024

Why COVID-era B2C was a perfect storm of liquidity, novelty, and green-field prospects — and why the K-shaped economy has since made B2C only harder.

06:39 – 11:32

03 · Fast scaling and team debt

The case for pressing hard when conditions are perfect, why momentum beats stair-stepping, and the operational debt you pay when you outrun your systems.

11:32 – 22:51

04 · Building a leadership culture

Brian's philosophy: lead yourself first, model the behavior you demand, and invest in every dimension of your team's life — not just their closing numbers.

22:51 – 34:00

05 · Coaching to eliminate blind spots

Why the leader's job is to widen the gap between where reps are and where they could be, and how granular call analysis — down to question framing — creates that gap.

34:00 – 46:00

06 · Recruiting: what actually predicts success

Why resumes and mock calls are false indicators; the five real hiring criteria with emphasis on assertiveness and rate of learning; how to interview for self-awareness vs. victimhood.

46:00 – 55:00

07 · Ramping: the two-week feedback loop

How to know within two weeks if a rep will hit KPI; why half-calendars accelerate ramp; what it feels and looks like when the feedback loop is strong vs. broken.

55:00 – 1:08:00

08 · Setters: pay, process, and churn

Why founders underestimate setter complexity, how a 25% pay bump cut ad spend by $200K/month, and why draws are the most underrated retention tool in setting.

1:08:00 – 1:20:00

09 · Developing sales managers

Why your best closer is usually the wrong choice; what executive presence and process-orientation look like in practice; the three-to-six-month coaching investment required.

1:20:00 – 1:28:00

10 · Objection handling: think it over and spouse

Live role-play of 'I want to think about it' and 'let me talk to my wife' — including the refundable deposit move and the permission vs. approval distinction.

1:28:00 – 1:36:00

11 · Price and competitive objections

How to handle 'it's more than I thought' without tearing down competitors; educating on options rather than diminishing alternatives; the reframe from price to certainty.

1:36:00 – 1:42:00

12 · The financial objection framework

Cole's most-taught framework: surface three financial metrics, confirm desire twice, offer a payment plan as a concession, and close with 'if I'm willing to do that, are you willing to move forward right now?'

1:42:00 – 1:45:10

13 · Leading with fun and team culture

Why humor at the close is an elite skill, why identity-in-the-yes kills salespeople, and how a sales manager's energy in team meetings gets carried directly into prospect calls.

Atomic Insights

Lines worth screenshotting.

  • Zero doubt is not a mindset hack — it's the actual variable that separated teams who hit $1M/month from teams who almost got there.
  • Growing fast creates operational and team debt, but you still capitalize on the arbitrage window; slow growth just spreads the same debt over more time.
  • You don't know what systems to build until you stress-break the ones you have — fast scaling produces better operations, not worse ones, long-term.
  • Mock calls are false indicators: someone who drills a mock call 50 times will ace the test and go one-for-45 in month one.
  • The two non-obvious hiring criteria for closers are assertiveness (the ability to challenge beliefs) and rate of learning — everything else is secondary.
  • Sales type must match sales process: a rep who closed $2M at Salesforce on a nine-month cycle is useless on a one-call-close fitness offer.
  • A sales team is the only team in the world that cannot perform when uninspired — an accountant can hate your guts and still do your books.
  • Player-coaches are a founder's way of having their cake and eating it too — the incentive structure always forces them to prioritize producing over coaching.
  • Your team will never exceed the skill level of their manager, so promoting a six out of ten means your entire team threshold is a five-and-a-half.
  • Setters making $7–12K/month had almost no churn; setters on track for $3–5K churned constantly — pay is the single most leveraged setter variable.
  • Raising setter pay 25% cost $20K/month in labor but allowed a $200K/month reduction in ad spend because lead utilization improved so sharply.
  • The financial objection framework works because it forces the prospect to confirm twice they're a hundred percent in before you ever discuss money.
  • Whenever you make a concession on payment terms, always trade it for a decision right now — the phrase 'if I'm willing to do that for you, are you willing to move forward right now?' closes more deals than anything else.
  • Uncertainty is the master objection — handle it first, because a prospect who doesn't believe it will work will never convince their spouse, move money from a brokerage, or commit to a timeline.
  • The nervousness close works by giving the prospect the objection they can't articulate: 'it just seems like a little bit of nerves' gets a yes more reliably than 'are you scared?'
  • Elite closers use humor to release compression at the end of a call; closers who struggle have too much of their identity wrapped up in the yes to stay playful.
  • Permission increases compliance — 'can I ask you a personal question?' not only gets a better answer but presupposes a personal answer is coming.
  • When a prospect says they've been burned before, don't use the 'would you never date again?' analogy — instead ask them to diagnose which of three failure modes happened, then solve only that one.
Takeaway

What actually separates eight-figure sales teams from everyone else.

THE PLAYBOOK

Speed, certainty, and treating salespeople as whole human beings are not soft ideas — they are the operational variables that decide whether a team compounds or churns.

01The RCA origin story
  • Zero doubt in the outcome is not a mindset exercise — it is the concrete variable that drives the aggressive decisions (ad spend, headcount, offers) that fast-scaling requires.
  • Growing fast accumulates team and operational debt, but you still capture the arbitrage window; going slowly just spreads that same debt across more time without the revenue upside.
02Selling in 2021 vs. 2024
    03Fast scaling and team debt
      04Building a leadership culture
      • Sales type must match the sales process: a rep with a strong enterprise or relational track record is not an asset on a one-call-close high-ticket offer — they are a liability.
      05Coaching to eliminate blind spots
        06Recruiting: what actually predicts success
        • Mock calls are false positive/negative indicators — they test preparation, not the actual assertiveness and rate of learning that predict real rep performance.
        • The two hiring criteria most founders ignore are assertiveness (the ability to hold a prospect accountable and challenge their thinking) and rate of learning — both are nearly impossible to develop from scratch.
        07Ramping: the two-week feedback loop
        • You can ramp any rep in two weeks if you meet with them every single day and assess the strength of the feedback loop — whether coaching actually changes behavior on the very next call.
        08Setters: pay, process, and churn
        • Setters making $7–12K/month had almost no churn; setters on track for $3–5K churned constantly. Raising setter pay 25% cost $20K/month in labor and enabled a $200K/month cut in ad spend.
        09Developing sales managers
        • Your best closer is almost never the right person to promote to sales manager — the right person loves the game, coaches naturally, and is process-oriented enough to translate performance into teachable steps.
        • Your team will never exceed the skill ceiling of their manager — promoting a six out of ten means your entire team threshold becomes a five-and-a-half.
        10Objection handling: think it over and spouse
        • Uncertainty is the master objection — get the prospect to a genuine 100% belief that the solution will work before you address spouse, timing, or money, because none of those can be resolved if they don't believe it will work.
        11Price and competitive objections
          12The financial objection framework
          • The financial objection framework works in a specific sequence: confirm desire twice, get permission to discuss finances, surface three metrics, then offer a payment plan as a concession in exchange for a decision right now — 'if I'm willing to do that for you, are you willing to move forward right now?'
          13Leading with fun and team culture
          • Elite closers use humor to release compression at the end of a call; the closers who go into fight-or-flight have too much of their identity tied to the yes to stay playful under pressure.
          • When a prospect cites a past burn, don't use analogies — ask them to diagnose which of three failure modes actually happened (method failed, service failed, or they didn't show up), then solve only that one.
          Glossary

          Terms worth knowing.

          Transactional sales
          A sales model where the decision cycle is one month or less, typically closing on a single call. Contrasts with relational or enterprise sales where cycles run months or years.
          Player-coach
          A sales rep asked to manage a team while still carrying their own quota. In practice, compensation structure forces them to prioritize personal production over coaching.
          Double tie-down
          A two-step confirmation sequence: first confirming the prospect believes the solution will work, then confirming it's the only thing standing between them and a decision. Forces them to either surface the real objection or commit.
          Team debt
          The operational and human cost accumulated by scaling a team faster than systems and culture can keep up. Analogous to financial debt — it must eventually be paid down, but fast scaling at least captures the revenue arbitrage while it exists.
          Rate of learning
          How quickly a candidate can internalize coaching feedback and implement it on the very next call. Identified as a stronger predictor of rep success than past sales experience.
          Financial objection framework
          A structured close sequence: confirm twice the prospect is 100% in, get permission to discuss finances, surface three metrics (net 30-day cash, cash on hand, available credit), then offer a payment plan as a concession in exchange for a decision right now.
          K-shaped economy
          An economic recovery pattern where the top income tier recovers and grows while lower tiers stagnate or decline. Used here to explain why B2B high-ticket offers continued to grow in 2024 while B2C offers faced increasing pressure.
          Lead utilization
          The percentage of booked leads that are actually worked with the full required number of follow-up dials. Low lead utilization — e.g., a single dial on a no-show — is cited as the most common hidden setting team problem.
          Assertiveness (hiring criterion)
          The ability to challenge a prospect's beliefs, hold them accountable, and maintain disagreement under social pressure. Described as nearly impossible to develop in someone who doesn't have it — treat it as a filter, not a training objective.
          Resources

          Things they pointed at.

          05:40product8-Figure Boardroom Mastermind ↗
          05:40productClosers.io sales team staffing ↗
          3:00:00bookInfluence by Robert Cialdini
          3:05:00channelPatrick Bet-David (speaker at mastermind)
          3:05:00channelDean Graziosi (speaker at mastermind)
          2:58:00channelEd Mylett talk on belief and influence (circa 2015)
          Quotables

          Lines you could clip.

          16:56
          “I'll only be able to lead people to the degree that I've led myself.”
          Tight, standalone leadership principle — no setup needed.→ TikTok hook↗ Tweet quote
          37:00
          “Sales team is the only team in the world that can't perform if uninspired.”
          Counterintuitive, specific, and reframes the entire job of sales leadership.→ IG reel cold open↗ Tweet quote
          59:30
          “Would you book a call if this person called you? 'John, hi.' Pause. Wait. What?”
          Funny, visual, instantly relatable for anyone who has managed setters.→ TikTok hook↗ Tweet quote
          1:22:36
          “Your team will never be as good as the manager. That sets the ceiling.”
          Short, direct, and has immediate implications for anyone promoting from within.→ newsletter pull-quote↗ Tweet quote
          1:33:10
          “Don't expect to get the close when you drop the investment. Expect to handle three objections first.”
          Resets the mental model of what a normal close looks like — changes how closers prepare.→ IG reel cold open↗ Tweet quote
          1:44:00
          “Elite closers use humor to release the compression. Closers who struggle have too much of their identity wrapped up in the yes.”
          Diagnoses the real reason closers tighten up — and the fix is not a technique.→ newsletter pull-quote↗ Tweet quote
          1:25:24
          “Can I tease you a little bit? Do you wanna let the past burn stop you from making change in the future? No. I don't think you do either.”
          Rare example of the playful-push close executed cleanly — works as a teaching clip.→ TikTok hook↗ Tweet quote
          Topic Map

          Where the conversation goes.

          00:00 – 06:39denseOrigin and early growth of RCA
          02:06 – 06:39steadyMarket conditions and B2C vs B2B
          06:39 – 11:32denseScaling philosophy and team debt
          11:32 – 22:51denseLeadership culture and team loyalty
          22:51 – 34:00denseSales coaching and blind spot removal
          34:00 – 46:00denseRecruiting and hiring criteria
          46:00 – 55:00denseRamp process and feedback loops
          55:00 – 1:08:00denseSetter team management and pay
          1:08:00 – 1:20:00denseSales manager development
          1:20:00 – 1:42:00denseObjection handling masterclass
          1:42:00 – 1:45:10steadyTeam culture and closing mindset
          The Script

          Word for word.

          Read-along

          Don't just watch it. Burn it in.

          See every word as it's spoken — crank it to 2× and still catch all of it. The same dual-channel trick behind Amazon's Kindle + Audible.

          analogystory
          00:00So in this podcast, I speak with Brian Ostermiller. We partnered together on creating four different eight or multiple eight bigger sales teams. And so we go over sales leadership, building center teams, building closer teams, how to scale up promoting sales managers, and then a ton of objection hand at the end, so you're gonna love this podcast.
          00:17Together, we've created four 8 figure sales teams, at least 8 figure run rates in the sales teams, three on the medical side, then, of course, RCA, which is the sales certification. At its peak, it did about $20,000,000 a year.
          00:29So I want you to bring me back to your memory of RCA, how it started, and,
          00:36know, really the journey we got that to 1,000,000 a month in about eight months and what that journey was like. Yeah, bro. I mean, the first memory that pops in my mind is you calling me while you were brushing your teeth on a morning.
          00:49I was like, I need to do something else and I had tried calling you. And then you called me back on a Sunday morning and you were like, dude, I'm brushing my teeth but I'm giving you a callback. And it was so casual.
          01:02I was like, dude, I need to do something else. You already had the funnel in mind and had it built. That was, like, 12/14/2020.
          01:12And then we put ads live two weeks later. And so we went from, like, first conversation to ripping calls two weeks.
          01:23And then month one, I think by myself, I collected, like, $80. Yeah. It's a 100.
          01:3080 to a $100. And, dude, the beginning was just scrappy. Like like, I think people probably think we had, a big master plan of, like No.
          01:41What was gonna happen, what we were gonna do. But it was much more like, dude, I'm let's hire a setter. Let's try it.
          01:49Yeah. Hire setter one, dude. Let's hire two.
          01:52And then our first closer was a guy that I closed into RCA, and it was like, dude, let's try bringing on another closer. So the first three months was just like, let's try this.
          02:05Let's do this. Let's try this. And it snowballed
          02:09so so so quick Yeah. At the beginning. How much different for people who have b to c types offerings, how much different was running it back then in twenty in 2021 at the peak of COVID opposed to, let's say, 2024?
          02:22Jeez, dude. I mean, just like the sheer amount of, like, access to financing, credit, disposable income, like ads being not as aggressive, like the entire playing field was different.
          02:39People had more liquidity. There was easier financing. The industry was new.
          02:44And so there was a lot of, like, green energy. Nobody was working. Nobody was working.
          02:49The idea of remote work was new. Yeah. So it was kinda like we were, like, the hottest idea with the hottest product in the hottest market with the hottest up and coming team
          03:00imaginable. Yeah. And you know what's interesting because people say we're in a k shaped economy now.
          03:05And so what's funny is if you're on the b to b side, you can actually still experience a lot of growth. Whereas, if you're on the b to c side, I feel like it's only got harder and harder and harder.
          03:15And a lot of people, a huge percentage of their deals are just financing now. Yeah. If you could even make that work, because it's, like, tough to even make the financing work.
          03:23Mhmm.
          03:24Also, like, the fourth wall of, like, b to c has been broken down. Like, when we launched RCA, people prospects, like, really believed, like, I'm getting on a strategy call or a coaching call.
          03:36Mhmm. People didn't have the understanding of, like, I'm entering a funnel. Like, it was all so new to consumers also.
          03:44And that's partly because because of COVID and so many people coming online, the the the higher the market entrance velocity, the more you're gonna get a feeling like that Mhmm.
          03:55Because it's their first time even experiencing anything in the market. Yeah.
          03:59You know? Yeah. So what do you think out of the things that we did in that first eight months to get to a million a month, which was very fast, What are the things you think we did well?
          04:08And then also, do you think of things we did not so well? Well,
          04:12I mean, dude, we were just so dang aggressive. Yeah. Like That's an understatement.
          04:17Yeah. I think what really, like, separated us from a lot of people that I've seen is, like, we had zero doubt in our mind that we were going to get there. Like, a lot of business owners that I talked to, it's like, we'll see if this, then that.
          04:32For us, it was just an absolute. Like, it's gonna happen by hell or high water. And we did a phenomenal job at not slowing down.
          04:42And it's interesting because, like, common logic would be, like, don't grow that fast.
          04:48Like, stair step your way up. But in a way, I think how fast we grew was like perfect with where the market was at and where we were at and how much energy we had and the season of life that we were in, like,
          05:02we had an advantage and we pressed it hard. If you're looking for a mastermind to take your business to 10,000,000 a year plus, then you wanna check out our 8 figure boarder at Mastermind. So after doing a 100,000,000 in total cash collected from my own companies, I've created a mastermind where I really pull back the curtain and show you exactly how I've done it.
          05:18So I not only share with you what's working for us across marketing, sales, fulfillment, operations, finance for all of our different companies, at the same time, you can network with some of the top people in the industry and also listen to world class speakers like Patrick Bet David, Dean Graziosi, Neil Patel, Tom Baylou, and many, many others.
          05:34So if you're interested, check out the link in the description and get more info. Yeah. I remember that time being very angry.
          05:42And I remember being like, we deserve it wasn't like, oh, I hope we can get to a million a month with this. It was like, we deserve this.
          05:49Uh-huh. It's like, this needs to fucking happen. Yeah.
          05:52And, obviously, that level of aggression
          05:55paid off. Big So what do you think of the mistakes that we made though? The downside to going so fast is you lose track of people very easily.
          06:03Yeah. Super super easily. So I would say all of the mistakes we made at the beginning centered around not like taking care of clients as well as we could have and not taking care of the people on the team as well as we could have.
          06:18Mhmm. I think we like, for me, but I think both of us had this still kind of like, if we're gonna run a million miles an hour, we expect everybody else to run a million miles an hour Yeah. Which it doesn't work long term
          06:32very well. And and you pay and you have to pay off when you grow that fast in operational and kind of like a team debt Mhmm.
          06:41Right from the scale. Like that debt has to get paid down. If you do it slowly, you do it slowly.
          06:45If you do it quickly, you do it quickly. I still like to do it quickly because at the end of the day, at least you're capitalizing on the arbitrage opportunity that you have.
          06:55Mhmm. Which it's like, when stuff is going really, really well, it's just much easier, in my opinion, to just put your foot on the gas and try to get to that level of critical mass and revenue, and then figure out the operations as you go, and then, like, patch it back up as you're stabilized opposed to this, like, really slow scaling.
          07:12And then the other thing is too is you won't you also don't even know what systems to build until you start to stress and break the systems. Yeah. So you actually end up with better operations that way anyways
          07:23unless you, you know or it does require you breaking a few eggs to the omelet, so to speak. And momentum breeds momentum. Like, it's really hard, like, especially for salespeople when it's, like, stop and go of, alright.
          07:36We're growing, we're pushing, we're scaling ad spend, and then it's, like, we're we're stay that kind of, like, stop and go, they it takes a lot of momentum to go from the sitting, standing, still, like maintaining the same revenue to getting everybody going. Yeah. Well, I would say we didn't have any churn at all until we were at that 1 to 1,500,000
          07:57a month mark, and then we had all the churn all at once. Yeah. And then we back down and then back up.
          08:04Uh-huh. You know, story of RCA. So, uh, one of the things that during that time, I always admired about you is that a lot of the reps or CSMs, just team in general that worked for you, it was almost like you had a cult like following Mhmm.
          08:19In terms of like you were able to develop the leadership with those people to where they just wanted to follow you, you know, in
          08:26into the battle. Right? So like how did you do that?
          08:29I think dude I took I still do and especially then took very seriously. I'll only be able to lead people to the degree that I've led myself. Mhmm.
          08:39And that's like pretty words, but I think like the whole team saw this story arc of Brian of like he built his first business at 21. We watched him go through a divorce. We watched him like rise out of the ashes and I think that the top of it is I was doing all of the things myself that I was asking them to do and I was doing it extremely well.
          09:03Like, my fitness was on point. My life was on point. My routines were on point.
          09:09And then I also just constantly led by example. Like, if I saw the team making the same mistake on calls, it wasn't, hey.
          09:18Go do this differently. It was, I'm gonna go do a call. I'm gonna show you how to do it, and then you're gonna learn from me.
          09:26And so it's just this constant reinforcement of not like a prideful, I'm better, but like I want to continually show you why I have the authority and credibility to lead. It's not just me being a tyrant.
          09:40Like, my bar is up here and I'm trying to help you live and perform at the same bar that I'm maintaining. And and what do you think really creates like the buy in and the loyalty that you get from those people? When I grew and changed, like, I wanted every person that worked for me so truly to have everything that they wanted.
          10:02Because dude, what I saw for myself closing is like the minute one aspect of life started to get shaky and fall out of place, closing would start to have a lagging effect. Right.
          10:14And so part of it was selfish of like, if I can keep all of these people dialed in in every aspect of their life, I know that they're going to continually show up and perform. Mhmm.
          10:25And then the other part of it was like, I just knew intuitively if I'm gonna have these people work with me for a long term, I need to help them see that this is a part of them living their dream life, not just making some dollars. And so I put so much energy into their relationships, their health, their fitness, their connections, if they were having fun or not.
          10:47Like, I think half the vacations our team took was because I was like, dude, you need to go spend some money and have fun. And I really took ownership over wanting to make sure their life was holistically great, not just that they were making money and closing well and that that created an immense amount of bond
          11:07because I just always was leaned into like what are the details of their life. Mhmm. And what do you think I mean, because the way I think about it is when you're when you have your team members, especially a sales team, but it could be really any team.
          11:20There's always the same way as it is in sales. There's where they are now versus where they wanna be. Mhmm.
          11:25Right? And the closer they get to that gap of feeling like, okay, I've learned everything I can learn in this position under this leadership.
          11:34Once they close that gap, it's basically a ticking time bomb for Yeah. When they Right?
          11:40So your job as a leader is to always, number one, expand their vision. Mhmm.
          11:45And it could be professionally and personally like you were saying because somebody could actually be like, okay, I'm making $25 a month as a closer. Closing is going really well. But the reason I really like being led by you is I am growing as a person.
          11:59I'm growing outside of my life in ways that I don't feel like I could under other leadership. Right? So it can be a personal thing or a professional thing.
          12:05Mhmm. That's what I always try to teach our managers is like you constantly have to like like if I'm doing a call review with somebody, naturally, I'm widening the gap and showing them things that they're not seeing.
          12:16Yep. And like your job as a leader is to alleviate those blind spots performance. Mhmm.
          12:20Because people let's say it's a salesperson. The deals they should be closing are not and then and that they're not closing isn't because they know what the problem is and they don't know the solution.
          12:30It's a lot of times because they're misdiagnosing the problem itself. Yep. And so if you can alleviate the blind spot, it creates that gap.
          12:38And the other thing is too, like you've probably had this where you got a piece of coaching and you were like, oh, like that's what it is. So that that you that insight kinda creates the gap. Yep.
          12:48And then you get this tension and this drive and this excitement to like, dude, I wanna take that next call so I can implement what I just learned Mhmm. To like use that to again chase that better version of yourself.
          12:59Does that make sense? A 100%. Yeah.
          13:00That's kind of the way I think about it. Yeah. And there's just
          13:03I think when you've gone through that process of like hyperanalyzing and hypercriticalizing your own calls and performance and like, you have the own stand there.
          13:14Like, you set your own standard of like, let's aim for perfection and see if we can get there. There's always gonna be something for them to improve on.
          13:23Like I
          13:24it's one out of a thousand calls that you'll review where it's like, dude, I don't see a single thing that could have been better. Right. But then that's only with that one particular prospect in that one moment.
          13:34Yep. That same prospect in a different moment, they're not as good. Mhmm.
          13:37Or with a different prospect, they completely fall apart. Yep. So I've never had a rep where I feel like I've taught them everything I could teach them.
          13:45Mhmm. Just because it's it's so hard to get to that hyper idealistic level of performance. Yeah.
          13:51You know? What do you think? Because you could sell it to a lot of people too.
          13:53What do you think most people get wrong with leadership in general?
          13:57I think the biggest thing, dude, is they just assume that people are gonna do their job and be happy. Yeah. And like, I don't They just they assume that they peep they're not gonna have to do any work.
          14:07Yeah. I mean, like, sounds silly, but that really is it. Like, the amount of times I've like diagnosed looking at one on ones, meeting structures, scorecards, and it's like, dude, you kinda just hired them and set them in motion and expected them to stay in motion and happy.
          14:25Mhmm. And then things crumble and fall apart. But like very few business owners and managers like fully lean into leading people.
          14:34They're usually much more like head in the clouds with like what's the next marketing thing? What's the next hook?
          14:40What's the next angle?
          14:41And they just lose track of taking care of people. Yeah. And I and I think it goes two ways.
          14:46There's two types of hires you can make. If you're hiring somebody that is not within your wheelhouse or your skill set and you're hiring them to really come in and figure it out.
          14:58Mhmm. Right? That's very different than, you know, obviously, you're hiring a sales rep as a sales manager, like, should be an expert in that and you need to be an active role in developing that person.
          15:07Like, if I hired, let's say, a CTO Mhmm. You know, I'm not gonna be able to review their code and be like, oh, you know, you're here, but you could've gotten here.
          15:14No. I can still help lead them personally and professionally in their leadership and their communicate certain things like that. Right?
          15:20Yep. But it's not gonna be a tactical level. But anyways, most people, at least in our industry, if you're hiring a sales rep, like, you probably know how to sell your thing.
          15:29Mhmm. Might not be the world's best sales rep. But you know how to sell your thing better than probably they know how to sell it because you're just the expert in doing Yeah.
          15:37You know? And that's why I always also tell people, it's like, you don't have to be the best salesperson in the world. You just have to be pretty damn good at selling your specific thing, which is not that big of a mountain to climb.
          15:46Yeah. But once you climb that, it becomes so much easier to train the reps.
          15:50Yeah. You know what I'm saying? But even with the CTO, like, the more energy you put into being connected with them Well, yeah.
          15:56Exactly. I'm still saying you wanna be invested personally. Yeah.
          15:59You're gonna gonna have to you start to see the leading indicators, and you're not just having someone randomly quit on you all the time. Yeah. And I think too, like, people want their sales team to be like a funnel where it's just like I set it up and it works.
          16:13But the the thing with people or teams and this is really the main two teams in our industry that are like this is your fulfillment based service team and then your sales team. Right? But it could go for any team.
          16:24But to get performance out of a sales team or fulfillment team, it requires energy in as the input to get to get performance out. Whereas like a funnel, it requires ad spend in to get performance out. Yep.
          16:35Right? So I think that frustrates people because especially marketers because they're like, just wish my sales team was like my webinar.
          16:42Yeah. It's like, no. Well, you you have to continually like sales team is the only team in the world that can't perform if uninspired.
          16:48Uh-huh. So, like, you're I always say your accountant could be depressed and on Prozac and, you know, doing drugs or whatever. Typically, they could still do your books perfectly and hate your guts in the process.
          16:58Yeah. But if a sales team, even sometimes, if they get a refund or, like, a bad text message from somebody they sold, it can totally tank their performance maybe for the entire week.
          17:09Yeah. Right? Just because
          17:11they have to have that level of inspiration to be able to sell. Yeah. And in, like, high ticket info space, the people are just as much of the product as the product.
          17:21Yeah. It's like, your course with STA is incredible.
          17:25It's 10 out of 10. And if the account manager doesn't do their job and they piss off a client You're still gonna get a refund. Doesn't matter how good the course is.
          17:34Yeah. With RCA, 80% of the product was the closer, setter, and coach
          17:41that they were interacting with. Right. That's why I always say it's like the quality of your company is determined by the quality of what happens on the front lines.
          17:49Mhmm. And I define the front lines as all the customer facing aspects of everything within your company.
          17:56Yep. Right? And so what they see, feel, how they interact with the ad, the lead nurture process, the funnel, the setter, the closer, then the onboarding process, then what's the course content look like in conjunction when they're going through the fulfillment process?
          18:11How does your CSM actually show up and connect with them? Mhmm. But it's all those customer facing elements.
          18:17The more you can increase the quality of those, the more the quality of the company increases. Yeah.
          18:22And in most cases, know, obviously, your course content, can set it up once. Your funnel, you can set it up once.
          18:28But all the people aspects of that require constant QC. Big time. You know, it's like, if I can stamp one thing on a lot of our clients' foreheads, it's like a QC.
          18:37I'm like, are you doing QC? Uh-huh. QC.
          18:39How much QC? Usually not enough. Yep.
          18:41You know? Way more than they would think. Way more than they would think.
          18:44So speaking of sales teams, what do you think is the biggest keys to and you can break this down in sections, but recruiting, hiring, training, ramping Mhmm.
          18:54And retaining talent. Recruiting?
          18:58Recruiting's an interesting one because for every person I thought was gonna not make it and I would have bet on it being a risky hire, they did make it. And for every person that I was like, this guy's gonna crush, they didn't make it.
          19:13And so with recruiting, the biggest thing I found is there has to be an alignment between what they actually know that they want to accomplish and what the team is doing in and of itself and where the team is going.
          19:27Mhmm. Like, I would say that's the single biggest common denominator of what I think is gonna be a successful hire.
          19:36I don't really do resumes. I don't really do mock calls as much. Why don't you like mock calls?
          19:41I know the reason, but people are I think they're a false indicator. False positive, false negative. Yeah.
          19:45Why is that? Because it's just a it's like an uneven environment. It's like assuming that because somebody's good at a pickup basketball game at the park, they're ready for the NBA.
          19:55Mhmm. It's just like and then often, you're gonna project out.
          19:59It's just I don't I've never seen it as a clear indicator, and it's not a even playing ground of what's gonna actually happen on calls. And people can prep for mock calls.
          20:09They can, like, overstudy, over prep, have everything scripted, and
          20:15not a fan. Well, you know, when I first got my first sales job, I had no experience, basically. Outside of selling for my own agency, but I sucked real bad.
          20:22Mhmm. And the way to get in was the mock call. And I just drilled that mock call, like, 50 times with the group.
          20:30Like, I probably did eight different people, however many four times each. Mhmm.
          20:36And which actually was only, like, a week's worth of preparation. I just, like, destroyed this freaking mock call.
          20:43Yeah. By the time I took it, they were like, that's the best mock call I've ever seen. Then I went one for, like, 45.
          20:48In my first two first month that I have is a one for 45, just absolutely terrible. Yeah. The mock call is, like, assuming because someone got a high score on the test that they're smart.
          20:57Yeah. I'll tell you, there's, like, five qualities that I look for.
          21:02Three of them are pretty common sense. Two of them aren't. The two that aren't common sense is, number one, for a closer especially, you have to have the level of assertiveness.
          21:11Mhmm. So it's like their ability to challenge somebody's beliefs or challenge their way of thinking or hold people in a accountable.
          21:20So they essentially have to be able to have a high degree of high degree of disagreeableness.
          21:27Uh-huh. Right? That was a little bit of a tongue twister.
          21:29The second thing too is and this is a thing that a lot of people don't look at, is rate of learning. Mhmm.
          21:34So there was a guy I hired, and I could tell his rate of learning was extremely high based on his past experience and he had the highest assertiveness, but he had no experience selling in our industry and he didn't even know what our industry was, basically.
          21:48Mhmm. But he was so assertive and so articulate, and I could tell he picked up stuff so fast.
          21:53I hired him anyways, and he did really well, ended up being an account manager. Yep. Right?
          21:57Then you obviously have buy in. So, like, the more bought like, you've had people who, they're not necessarily the best, but they're, like, so bought in and they just work so hard that they just figure it out. Yeah.
          22:09Like, there's those people. It's like the little train who cook. Scrappy.
          22:11And then the two things that are more obvious is industry acumen, which is, like, how well they understand the industry. Mhmm.
          22:17So, like, one of my best closers, he was a client success director for a competitor of mine, but he came over. And, essentially, when he started selling, like, he didn't really have the sales experience. He was bought in.
          22:27He had a high rate of learning. He was assertive. But, like, he because he was a client success director, he was able to, like, dice up these people's businesses on the call.
          22:34No problem. Yeah. And then the final thing is, like, the obvious one, which is the actual sales track record, which where a lot of people and this like I don't know if you've experienced this.
          22:45This like drives me nuts. And so they'll be like, well, this person was really good in insurance. Uh-huh.
          22:50And I'm like, well, it has to be the same there's different types of sales. There's relational sales, enterprise, like long term sales, transactional sales, which is really what we do. Yeah.
          22:58Doesn't mean you're treating your customers a transaction. It means that essentially, the sales cycle is a month or or less and then so on and so forth.
          23:06Relational sales is like real estate agents. Yeah. Yeah.
          23:08You know? So you have to match the type of sales process to whatever you're selling Yep.
          23:15And make sure it's congruent there. Yeah. Because people will get wowed.
          23:18They'll be like, this guy was great for Salesforce. And I'm like, well, their sales cycle's nine months. Yeah.
          23:23You're trying to one call close like a fitness offer. Or it's like, they closed 2,000,000 last year, and it's like, I don't even know what that means. 2,000,002 million of what and where for what offer.
          23:32Yeah. The most common one I see is, oh, well, this person could be a sales manager because they managed 400 reps Uh-huh. At x y z tech company.
          23:41Uh-huh. And I'm like, yeah. The product was $500, and it's a SaaS, and it's like, they're just taking orders.
          23:50Yeah. You know, it's a totally different thing than a high performance sales team that has to be really good because you have to pay back on ads immediately. Mhmm.
          23:57You know? Yeah. I do hyperanalyze,
          24:00like, how people show up on the interview. And one of my favorite things to do is, like, give them pushback on the interview to see how they handle it.
          24:09And also, like, how they've diagnosed their past experiences. And so I'll typically ask, like, hey. So you told me your goal is to get to $20 a month.
          24:18Why do you think you haven't gotten there up to this point? What do think has been the roadblock? Like, that question alone tells me whether or not they're a victim or if they're self aware.
          24:28Mhmm. Hey, dude. You were at your last company for six months.
          24:32Why did you actually leave? Gonna tell me how aware they were of, like, what was actually going on with the team? What'd you think of your last manager?
          24:40Like, those little things are a big deal to me on the interview because however they show up, they're giving me their best on the interview. Right. It's like a first date.
          24:50Everybody is their best on the first date. Yeah.
          24:53So if I'm not like extremely impressed by them, I already know I got their best.
          24:59They're not gonna impress me later on. I agree. So, what do you think about ramping?
          25:05You can do it really fast or you can have a super drawn out process that's obnoxiously long. I think you can get any rep ramped in two to three weeks if you meet with them every single day.
          25:18And in two weeks, you're either gonna know they're gonna hit KPI and they're gonna be great here or you know it's time to let them go. And when you say meeting with them, that's as they're taking calls. Yeah.
          25:28Day. Because the biggest thing I'm gauging is like, can I give this person coaching and feedback and can it get implemented? Because if it can, like, if I can say, hey, your discovery was way too shallow and short, and then their next call, their discovery is 30% longer.
          25:46There's only gonna be so much coaching before we get it figured out. Right. You're assessing the strength of the feedback loop.
          25:52Yeah. Exactly.
          25:53Think that in my experience, it's similar. And I like to give people half calendars because I think if you have, you know, if you're taking six or seven calls a day, you tend not to show up at your best at first as much so as if like like, you know, if you have like three calls and you're like, these are all the three calls I got.
          26:16I just knew this when I was a closer. On average, I'm gonna close those three calls at a higher percent. I'm gonna go all out.
          26:21You know, and and some of it's for no other reason that like, I might have like two hours before my next call. Yeah.
          26:27And so I'm just gonna like stay on this call for two and a half hours and just figure it out. So I think part of that helps, but it's like I like to give them a half calendar and then like you said, it's like keep the feedback loop super tight and assess the strength of the feedback loop.
          26:43Mhmm. Because you can tell pretty quickly if they're gonna get it.
          26:46I mean, a lot of the stuff like I said, like assertiveness. Sometimes, there's been people I just see one or two calls and I'm just like, yeah, they're just not gonna get there. Yeah.
          26:53And you just can't them. And then after that, it's kinda like the rate of learning. Yep.
          26:57You know, like your eye has one of the highest rates of learning out of anybody I've ever met. Yeah.
          27:03You know? It it's like you wanna look for that to where and that really is a strong feedback loop in their performance. Yep.
          27:09I think the only thing that they have to have before coming on in almost every offer that they could sell is that assertiveness ability.
          27:19Mhmm. Because, like, to really develop that in somebody, it takes so much I'm like, I always say, I don't wanna give somebody a Tony Robbins breakthrough. Uh-huh.
          27:28You know, Date With Destiny breakthrough and they gotta roar like a lion. Yeah. Even though we did do that one time on a meeting to somebody.
          27:36We did it. Several times. Did a lot of times.
          27:39I don't wanna have to do that with somebody to get them to close. For sure. It's just too much it's like the opportunity cost is too high.
          27:45And it's a lot of upkeep. Yeah. Yeah.
          27:47And then, retaining them similar to what we talked about earlier, but anything there. I think the biggest thing is that they can just keep seeing their growth journey. Yeah.
          27:54And that you're continually painting a long term picture and you have their best interest I would agree with that. What about setters?
          28:02It's everybody's favorite team. Setters.
          28:05I think the biggest thing, dude, is you gotta find really hungry hungry hungry people. Like, would say just
          28:13hunger and drive, single biggest thing. Didn't she go through a phase of hire you wanted a little bit of tism with the setters?
          28:20Dude, it's a strong leading indicator of success. And why is that? Because they're so task oriented and they get hyper fixated on completing the task.
          28:31And it's setting is like a very binary option activity. It's like, we're looking for the we're looking for the thing. Yeah.
          28:38There's not as much like creativity often in setting. It's not as emotional. Input driven.
          28:43Yes. Yeah. So you need high inputs.
          28:46You need somebody who's gonna make all the dials in a day. They're gonna manage their leads correctly. They're gonna call the right leads.
          28:52That's why they can be a little bit more process oriented than closers. For sure.
          28:56That's why some setters will never be closers. Yeah. And then that's actually fine because those setters are
          29:01they're decent. Yeah. I mean, the best setters that I've ever worked with love knowing that they have a job to accomplish
          29:08and they wake up and they do their job and they end their day. What do you think most founders get wrong with their setting setting teams? Because most of them really struggle with having good setters.
          29:20And I'm like Yeah. Would you book a call if this person called you? Yeah.
          29:25And they're like, John, hi. I mean, I literally reviewed a call.
          29:30It was from a different team and that was literally how the intro was. It was, John, hi.
          29:38Pause. Wait. What?
          29:41I was like, hi. This is so and so from so and so. What do you want?
          29:47But yeah. I think the first thing is setting's a bit more technical and difficult than I think most business owners give credit to to, like, have it set up well.
          29:58Because most business owners probably haven't, like, been a setter for a week for their company. Exactly. They probably turned on ads and started taking calls and then are trying to hire setters.
          30:08And on the back end, these setters are, like, in HubSpot, like, clicking around on leads trying to do their job. Mhmm. And it it does require more process and system and orientation than they would think.
          30:21And so, like, dude, I got on a consulting call last week with this company that was like, we can't figure out why our lead utilization is dropping.
          30:31Like, what's going on? And I was like, well, let's pull up your CRM and look. And I was like, let's filter for booked calls that didn't show for the last fourteen days.
          30:42Went through all 50 of them, one dial. And it's like, that's so common. And so actually having like systematic thinking as the founder and like you should shadow your team for a day and see how they're working, almost every single time they'll go, makes sense, they're struggling.
          31:02Yeah. And the thing is, the easiest fix I have when it's one of those things where they're like, man, I can't get my setter team to work.
          31:10I've tried three or four setters. I churn them all. Uh, we don't know if it's the leads or it's the setters or this.
          31:17I'm like, why don't you just take a day and just set? Just try it.
          31:21And then I'm like, you'll probably do fine because it's your business and setting's not that hard. And also, you're gonna understand the workflows, you're gonna understand what to say, and if, like, you do it and you can't get any sets or it's like a heroic effort to get two sets, then it's probably like a systems or elite issue.
          31:37Yeah. If you do it and you get eight sets and by noon, it's probably like you just don't even know how to train these people because you didn't even know what's going on.
          31:45Yeah. And the last time I did that, the dude got six sets by, like, 11AM.
          31:51And I'm like, alright, you know, now you know what to do. But like you're saying, almost every founder has closed their offer.
          31:56Yeah. So they even if they're not an expert closer, they still get, like, okay.
          32:02I kinda know what to do. Mhmm. Right?
          32:03And also, with a closer, everything you need to QC is within the call. Yep.
          32:08Pretty much. I mean, you need to look at their follow-up pipeline, the amount of deals they get from long term follow-up. You need to make sure they're confirming their calls if you're doing that.
          32:16You need to make sure, you know, whatever. Right? Yeah.
          32:18But with setting, it's there's the quality of the calls, but also the quality of their actual process and their inputs into how they're working the system and etcetera. Yeah.
          32:28Which you have to QC both of those things. Yeah.
          32:32But usually it's not very difficult if you just do that and you figure it out. And there's a tension point when you're building a setting team which is
          32:38the closing team already has to be great or you're gonna have churn very quickly. Yes. If you're not willing to like pay the setters a draw and take care of them.
          32:47Yep. Because you think like, you hire these guys, maybe you give them a $1,500 base and then it's like, you make $300 if you get a set close.
          32:56Week one, they get 20 sets, 14 show up, one or two close. And if they don't have like a great first two or three weeks and they're not on a draw, two and a half weeks in they're thinking like, I'm not gonna make enough money.
          33:11This isn't working, and they're planning their exit. Yep.
          33:15I would agree. And I think the other thing that people miss out on is they just drastically under hire set quality and wanna underpay.
          33:25Big time. So they're like, yeah, a setter. It should make $3 a month.
          33:29Uh-huh. And I'm like, You could probably find a setter for $3 a month. They're not gonna be very good.
          33:33Yeah. And one of the things that I did that was the highest leverage thing I've ever done with any setting team is I increased their pay by 25% across the board.
          33:42Mhmm. And the thing is, that only cost me an extra $20 a month. Yeah.
          33:46Okay. To do across the entire team. But when you do that, a 25% pay increase, especially for the lower the position is Massive.
          33:55It gets you an entirely different trough of recruiting quality Yep.
          34:01Because it's like, I mean, the difference between, let's say, 5 and $8 a month is, like, massive in terms of who you're going to get. Mhmm. Right?
          34:08And so then, we basically churned out our whole setter team, increased the quality of every single person. For us, it was like we got closer level people Yeah.
          34:17To be setters, but then just paid them way more. The production was so much higher that we for an extra $20 a month in labor cost, we were able to reduce our ad spend by $200 a month.
          34:28Yeah. It's like insane. That's nuts.
          34:30Yeah. So anything else on setters? Anything else you think people mess up?
          34:34And I think just like we were saying, paying them well and making sure they're making money. Like when RCA was at its peak, setters were making 7 to 12 a month.
          34:43And so, we had almost no churn. Yeah. Because it's like, if you're a setter making $78 working from home making dials, you're not going anywhere.
          34:52But at the beginning, we were they were on track earnings was like three to five and we had
          34:57constant churn. And I think the other thing is too is I give everybody a draw because especially if it's a system that takes a long time to ramp into.
          35:07Like, for, you know, our b two b stuff, it's a lot more complex. So it takes them a longer time to ramp into. That's closers and setters.
          35:13Or if it's like your closing team is kinda like waffling right now, but you need to build up the setting team, give them a draw Mhmm. To compensate for the uncertainty with the closing team so it gives you a runway to retain that person.
          35:26And because, again, so many salespeople are so used to an owner saying, oh, my thing is the best.
          35:35We got so many leads. We got this and that, whatever. And then they come in, and then they're like, nobody's winning.
          35:41Mhmm. So the draw helps them be like, okay. Well, no matter what, like, they're saying everything's gonna get better, but I'm gonna make this amount of money which pays my bills no matter what.
          35:50Yeah. And I think that's a huge, like, and it's not that much money, especially if you found the right person. Yeah.
          35:54Just like paying a little bit of a draw is not bad. And then the other thing is too is if they suck, you just cut them. Especially in 2026.
          36:02Like,
          36:03every setter in our industry right now has probably been burned two or three times. Every sales person in general. Yeah.
          36:08They're just used to, oh, there's bunch of leads then there's no leads. Yeah. Oh, you can close 40% on this and it's like nobody's closed 40% on it ever.
          36:15Yeah. You can make $30 a month, the top closure is making 10. Mhmm.
          36:20It's pretty common. Yeah. Super.
          36:21So, in terms of sales managers then, how do you develop a sales manager?
          36:29It's tough, dude. It's a hard one. I think the primary thing that I look for is somebody that, like, really loves the game of sales and, like, has an exuberant passion towards it.
          36:44And it's not always gonna be your best closer. In fact, most of the time it's not going to be Yeah. Your top closer.
          36:51It's usually gonna be your like a minus 70% like third or fourth on the team, but they're very steady.
          37:00They love sales. They're very mature. And you'll already see them like branching out to help the team.
          37:08And then it's, I think, a very, like, long three to six months haul of, like, teaching them how to coach sales in an effective way because that's also a whole new art. Like, translating what they need to change into a way that they can internalize it and actually create the change and knowing order of priority and order of magnitude coaching, it is a whole new skill set.
          37:36And I think most business owners just take their best rep and say, okay, great. You're a sales manager now. Yeah.
          37:42But it's like taking your point guard and making them head coach and being like, you're gonna know how to coach the team Right. Because you were point guard. Yeah.
          37:50Well, there's a couple things you wanna look for. Right? There's
          37:53executive presence which is essentially, can this person come in, take leadership of a group of people Mhmm.
          38:01And hold people accountable privately and publicly while maintaining respect.
          38:07Yep. Which is something that is teachable, but they kinda it's like kinda like what I was saying with the assertiveness of the closers.
          38:17They kinda have to have that. Yep. And then the other aspect is like process driven.
          38:21Because there's some closers who were you know, when I closed, for instance, at TNF, I was insanely process driven. Peyton is more not that he has, a bad process or anything, but he was much more, like, intuitive and more, like, emotional.
          38:34He's very, very good at that side. Mhmm. And and he can obviously manage a team.
          38:38He's very But in general, people who have more of that style can tend to struggle a little bit more because it's hard to translate exactly what they're doing into a process.
          38:48You know what I mean? Yeah.
          38:50Yeah. I mean, when I was closing, I was, like, always trying to figure out what the formula was.
          38:55And so like when I would review my own calls, I would dissect it down to like the word Yeah. Exactly.
          39:01And the question. Like, I would watch six minutes in when I would ask like a why front loaded question and be like, oh, that didn't register as well.
          39:10I should have asked a what front loaded question there instead of a why question. Mhmm. And I was so detail oriented in and of myself that when I was training teams and training managers, I was taking things down to the letter with showing them why things were happening the way that they were.
          39:29Which is really key too because
          39:31there's little nuances like that. Like, I can take somebody who's really advanced where it's hard to give them feedback, but I can be like, hey, you see how you frame this question?
          39:39Because you know how, like, you watch a closer's call and they'll ask a question. And you know what they're trying to ask, like, more so, you know the intention, in other words. The out you know the answer, they're trying to get.
          39:50Yeah. But I'm like, you see, I I was like, you're trying to get this answer. Right?
          39:53Yeah. They're like, yeah. Do you see how you asked this question this way?
          39:57He interpreted or she interpreted it as this. Mhmm. That that, it's like, that's why she gave you x y z answer and didn't answer your question.
          40:05Then you got mad, she didn't answer your question. Yep. When in reality, it's like it's like you walk up to the vending machine, you wanted the the Nestle's bar, that was e three.
          40:15I'm like, you clicked like b five. Uh-huh. Does that make sense?
          40:18Yeah. It does. Because you really can take it that granular.
          40:22But that also widens the gap Yeah. In terms of helping them understand where they're at now versus where they need to go. Know?
          40:28And so the best managers I've seen are also that way. They love figuring out They're sales nerds. Why things happen the way that they do.
          40:35Yeah. They're sales nerds, I also say you do not want a CRM nerd. You can hire a sales ops department for that because the main thing is is, like, sales manager should really be called sales coach.
          40:45It's just the sales coach doesn't sound as sexy as director. Uh-huh. But really what you're doing is you're their leader, you're kind of the therapist, you gotta pick them up after a bad day, have to coach and train them the right way because, you know, sales people's emotions too.
          41:00Yep. It's like sometimes, you know, the person's like this is like stuff I think about even with our team now.
          41:06It's like, they just did seven, you know, units in record breaking cash last week. They had a bad Monday, bad Tuesday, and they're like, man, you know, I I don't even think I'm pay rent this month.
          41:19Yeah. So it's like you gotta like My whole future's falling remind hard. Them like, you know, like, you just hit a record the last month.
          41:25Do you have anything on that in terms of like emotional regulation? Because you you were very good at that.
          41:30Yeah.
          41:32For me, it was always like having the anchor that we always revisited with them about who they wanted to become and the attributes they wanna develop as a person. Like, I actually never looked at metrics with the team really.
          41:47Mhmm. I don't because I just didn't really care that much and they would overthink it. Like, I know some leaders it's like, up the Monday meeting.
          41:55Here's everybody's closed rate last week. Like, you closed at 30%. What happened?
          42:01I never did that because it would just get them more in their head than it did anything else. And so my default was like, dude, you had a bad week.
          42:11What were your mornings like last week? How were you spending your free time? When you realized you were struggling, what did you do?
          42:17Did you go binge eat pizza on Friday night or did you review and self study? Not because I care that you had a bad closing week, but because I wanna look at the habits that you're developing and who you're becoming.
          42:31And that was always the anchor.
          42:33Mhmm. And then the other thing too that's important because you mentioned it could be I agree.
          42:39A lot of times it's not your best person because your best person being good at sales is inherently selfish. Uh-huh. Not in the sense where you're like, you don't care about other people, but it's like you gotta have this tunnel vision on the target.
          42:50Yeah. Right? So you can't really take care of the entire team while having the tunnel vision on the target, which is also why player coaches are bullshit because you're basically player coach is just basically the owner's way of being super lazy saying they wanna have their cake and eat it too.
          43:06Yeah. It's like, hey, I'm not gonna really pay you that much more. I want you to manage the team, but I want you to pay your own salary by still producing.
          43:13Yeah. So what are they gonna do? Okay.
          43:15Well, obviously, what they're gonna prioritize because of their comp, it's like if you watch the incentive, you can see the behavior. They're gonna prioritize producing. And then the other thing is too is if they fall behind, they're like, well, I'm not I'm the team lead.
          43:28I'm not leading by example. What do you think they're gonna do? They're just gonna keep producing.
          43:31And then they're not gonna do any of the car reviews. They're not gonna coach their team at all, etcetera. But what I would say is it generally is your manager's usually one of the top three people on your team.
          43:41Mhmm. And you have to realize and be okay with, your team will never be as good as the manager.
          43:47Mhmm. Like, it sets this because, like, if you're if you know, if I'm training a team, I'm probably never gonna get them as good as me. But my goal is to get them if I'm a 9.5 out of 10, I could probably get somebody to a nine out of 10.
          43:58Yeah. You know? So you wanna make sure whoever you promote, if there is if you're a 9.5 and they're a six, you gotta realize your entire team threshold will be a 5.5.
          44:08Yeah. Does that make sense? Yep.
          44:10So I think that's the other big thing as well. For sure. So let's hit some objections.
          44:14I wanna think about it. K. I wanna think about it.
          44:18Okay. That's totally fine. While we're here, are you just open to talking through what's going through your head?
          44:26Can you help me understand kinda like what's happening? Yeah. It's just a lot of money and I've been burned before.
          44:32I don't know if it's gonna work. And, you know, I just, you know, I just kinda wanna think about it and do my research.
          44:39Yeah, man. Can I ask you a personal question? Yeah.
          44:42How are you feeling about it? I mean, it it feels good.
          44:47I just it's like for this amount of money, you know, the last company didn't fulfill and some kind of like Yeah.
          44:55I'm just kinda skeptical. For sure. What about it is feeling good right now?
          44:59What are the parts that are feeling good? I mean, like, I do agree with what you said earlier. Like, implementing stuff the way you said, I could see how it's different.
          45:06And so, like, everything you said is good. And if that's what actually happened, it would make sense. It's just kind of like a little bit of a hesitation to pull the trigger.
          45:15Yeah. That makes sense. What happened when you got burnt?
          45:17What was the situation there? I, paid an agency, and they said they were gonna do all this stuff. And at the end of the day, like, it took forever to execute Mhmm.
          45:26And then, like, it didn't work. I just got bad leads. We had to part ways.
          45:30Yeah. Let's say as a hypothetical,
          45:33everything I laid out happened in the exact way I laid it out in the exact timeline. Yeah. If we could draw that as a hypothetical,
          45:40where would you be at with this? I'd probably triple my business. Okay.
          45:46Where would it take you out of 10 in terms of like actually wanting to take the steps to do it? If hypothetically everything happened the way we talked about it. It well, if everything happened the way it if everything happened the way you said it's gonna happen, I would be a 10 out of 10 on it.
          46:00You know, I'm just worried about something that burned me in the past. Yeah. And I'm not saying I'm gonna, like, guarantee you the outcomes are gonna happen because that would be naive.
          46:09Like, we are in a market that has conditions and you know things move and circulate.
          46:14But there is, like, a bottom rung to that, which is you should a 100% feel sure that the deliverables and what we're gonna do on our side are going to happen. Like, I agree with you on that. Is there anything else besides, like, the worry of, like, are these guys gonna do what they say?
          46:32Is there something else you're kinda processing? No. I mean, that's just it.
          46:35Like, if if
          46:37if we if everything happened the way you said it's gonna happen, it's obviously a no brainer. Yeah. I mean, can I level with you on a thought?
          46:45Yeah.
          46:46Like, the deliverables is easy. It's gonna be in the contract. You'll have it contractually guaranteed that we're gonna do the deliverables.
          46:54A company like ours doesn't get to work with people like Tony Robbins, Dean Graziosi, Grant Cardone if we don't deliver.
          47:02Like, you would know if we're not delivering because you would see it everywhere. And so it's pretty easy for us to make sure that the deliverables happen, but I also wanna make sure that you actually feel good about working with us because a big part of those outcomes happening or not is whether you're ready to get over the past burn and fully commit with us.
          47:26And that sounds like I'm trying to pigeonhole you into something and I'm not. Like, I'm genuinely wanting to make sure that you feel internally ready to like move forward with growing the business. Mhmm.
          47:39So where are you at with that?
          47:41And I wanna move forward and grow the business. You sure? Yeah.
          47:44Do you wanna can I tease you a little bit? Yeah. Do you wanna let the past burn stop you from making change in the future?
          47:50No.
          47:51I don't think you do either.
          47:53Well, dude, let's just go ahead and get everything signed and get going because man, like, bro to bro, if you let the past burn inform who you're gonna be in the future and the decisions you're gonna make, you're just gonna stay stuck and you know that.
          48:08Doesn't change that it's hard, but I don't think you wanna let past burn stop you from achieving things in the future. Nice.
          48:16That's good. What about spouse? Dude, I love the spouse one.
          48:20What was that? I sounds really good. I love it.
          48:22I just wanna talk to my wife. Is she home?
          48:25Yeah. Will you go grab her? Well, okay.
          48:29She's not home. She's not home? Can we call her right now?
          48:33Oh, she won't pick up.
          48:35Okay. Can I ask you a personal question? Yeah.
          48:39Is this like man, she's gonna divorce me if I say yes and kill me thing or is it like you two wanting to make sure that you're on the same page and she respects more of a same page thing. Yeah.
          48:51Have you two talked through this up to this point?
          48:53She knows I wanna grow my business but she doesn't, you know, she just didn't know I was on this call and Yeah. About to spend this amount of money. Is she your business partner?
          49:01No.
          49:02Okay. So she's not involved in business operations? No.
          49:06Is she like business consultant, keeps you on the rails, make sure you don't do anything dumb? No.
          49:11No. It's just my wife. Okay.
          49:14Help me understand what kinda you're looking for in her approval. And I'm I know that sounds like an asshole question, but if she's not a business partner, she's not a consultant, I'm just trying to better understand what she said.
          49:26I just need to, like, let her know out of respect. Yeah. If you move forward without talking to her, what would happen?
          49:35She would just be like She'd kick you out? Babe. Well, no.
          49:38But she'd be like, babe, you know, we were supposed to talk about these types of things. Yeah. Have you messed that one up before, bro?
          49:47Yeah.
          49:49In what way?
          49:50Well, you know, it's just like I bought and stuff and then, you know, we just wanna have an agreement that purchases over a certain amount or, you know, that we just talk to each other by.
          50:02Yeah.
          50:03Are you open to a middle ground solution? Yeah. Before I present it, shoot it with me straight.
          50:10Do you actually want to do this or we No. I wanna do it. You're 10 out of 10?
          50:14Yeah. Alright, dude. Well, there's an easy solution solution to to this.
          50:17This. Here's all we're gonna do. We're gonna put down a $2,000 deposit now.
          50:23It's a refundable deposit. And then what I wanna do is schedule a call with you and your wife and me so that she can meet me, meet the company. And I'll actually onboard you into the curriculum so that she can see what it is that you invested into.
          50:39Because if we don't do that, I'm just another guy pitching you another thing. It's gonna depend on where she's at on the day and where her mood's at. I'd rather her be able to actually see the thing that you're potentially investing into.
          50:53So let's do the deposit now. I'll onboard you into the curriculum, and then us three can jump on later tonight. But then she can actually see what it is that you want to invest to, and it's not a blind decision.
          51:05Mhmm. See, I like that one because
          51:07I've used that a lot where, obviously, you're getting them bought in on they a 100% wanna do it. Then it's, hey, do you need their permission or are you just letting them know?
          51:17Mhmm. And then, honestly, especially with this one, even regardless if it's permission versus letting them know, especially with a guy, you can just go to the refundable deposit.
          51:26Hey, let's book the onboarding call with you and your wife. Yep. And then we can both hop on, and she can actually get onboarded with you into this thing.
          51:33So she's just as bought into it as you are. And then she can also see what you've actually invested in so that it's not a scam, it's not BS, whatever. And if she actually hates our guts and thinks the onboarding is the worst thing ever and is wondering why the heck you did this, we'll just send it back.
          51:46Yep. But if she feels really good like you do, then you're already well on your way and you already have moved forward. But regardless, like you told me earlier that the most important thing for you is not the less not the lot let the last five years be like the next five years.
          51:59Mhmm. So let's put down this 1 k refundable deposit.
          52:02You can obviously there's no risk in doing it, but for you, that's metaphorically drawing a line in the sand and saying that from here on out, things are going to be different. Yep. So if I was willing to make that adjustment how we regularly do things for you,
          52:15would you be willing to move forward right Yeah. You know, I like that type of stuff. It's beautiful.
          52:19And then what's beautiful about that is if they go, no, dude. I'm not doing that. Then you can take a deep breath.
          52:25That this this moment is where most closers mess up because they'll, like, get pissed about it. Like, the prospects like, yeah, dude. I'm still not doing that.
          52:33And the closer will get really tense off of it. I would just take a deep breath and be like, man, can I ask you a personal question?
          52:44Yeah. There's probably something else going through your head. And, like, I'm not trying to prod at you, but we've been talking for an hour.
          52:52From my end, it seems like everything about this makes sense for you. What else is going on? Like, will you just open up and talk to me about what you're thinking?
          53:02And I'll, like, release pressure and open up a lot of space and just ask what's going through their head.
          53:10And if I open up space and I'll ask gently a few times and they're just not willing to communicate, then I know I did everything I could to have a conversation with them.
          53:22But even in that, it allows to zoom out and take pressure off and keep trying to get them to open up. And I think one of the keys is is if you could stay
          53:31neutral and playful at the close, people will just be honest.
          53:36Yeah. Whereas if you tense up because you're like, man, I spent an hour and ten minutes and I missed my next call because I'm spending all this time with this person. Fuck the fuck you.
          53:47You know? If you if you have that, then they put their guards up.
          53:52Yeah. So a lot of times it's like, hey, man. Well, like, just level with me, like What's going on?
          53:57What's really going on? Like, earlier you said you wanted to do this. You said it sounds really good.
          54:01Talk to I mean, look, you do it now or do it later, that's fine. But just to me, it feels like something is on your mind that we just haven't discussed yet. Yeah.
          54:08And if we're gonna work together in the future, I wanna make sure we're fully aligned. Yeah. And so in order to do that, we just have to be honest with each other.
          54:15What's really going on? Keep adding cushion. Dude, your business is in such a good spot to grow right now.
          54:21Like, seems like everything makes sense, but maybe I missed something. Mhmm. Like, what's going through your head?
          54:27Yeah. What's going on? What's another objection we should hit?
          54:30Another objection is
          54:33that's way more than I thought it was gonna be. Okay. Yeah.
          54:36It sounds good, but it's it's way more than I thought it was gonna be. Yeah, man. Have I'm curious, like,
          54:43how are you thinking about it? Tell me help me understand where you I looked into some other things. Usually, this this runs about 10 k.
          54:51Yours was 15. So, like, that just kinda has to make me think about it a little bit. What held you back from going with the other ones?
          54:59I'm curious. Well, you know, I was just trying to kinda view all my options and see what else was out there and, you know,
          55:08just see what all my options were. Yeah. Well, I guess, ultimately, how would you know if you did find the right team to help you?
          55:15It's a good question. I I guess I would feel very confident that they could get me to where I wanted to go. So it's actually really just about who's gonna get you to where you wanna go?
          55:25Yeah. Is there anything else? That would be the main thing.
          55:29Yeah.
          55:30Yeah. Do you wanna work with a team that has, like, impeccable industry credibility?
          55:36That's the goal. K. Well, man, what about our conversation led you to feel like we weren't the people that could help you get there?
          55:43Well, I mean, I I think you could. It just is a little bit more than I thought. Was it about the cheaper thing or is it about working with the team that's gonna help you get there, bro?
          55:53It's about working with the thing that's gonna give you help you get there. Are you sure?
          55:57Because, dude, there's people that are cheaper than us. I promise. I can refer you to them, brother.
          56:01Yeah. I'm happy to. But, dude, can I just be your bro for a sec?
          56:06Yeah. I don't think you need the cheapest thing right now. Like, you're doing a $100 a month.
          56:11You wanna get to $500,000 a month. Whether the investment's $5 or $50 relative to that goal, who gives a shit?
          56:19Yeah. Like, really, who cares? Even if I pitched you $30 and you got to 500, would you really look back and care at all?
          56:27No. And so I don't actually think it's so much about the price as much as it is who's gonna help you get to where you wanna go. Can I ask you the other companies that you've talked to, have they done the thing that you want to do?
          56:41Yeah. I mean, they're doing it with clients. Do you know to what scale?
          56:46No. Because that's a big part of it, man. Like, there's a there's a lot of people that have done it a few times.
          56:53There's very few people who have done it hundreds of times, if not thousands. And to level with you, like, they also might be good. Like, I'm not saying you shouldn't work with them.
          57:05I think you should go with the team that's done what you wanna do the most amount of times and that you're the most sure can help you get there. Yeah. That might be us.
          57:13That might be them.
          57:17Yeah. So
          57:19what do you think? I think it I think I should go with the one that I think is gonna get me there.
          57:26I I agree. It's like it's so hard to role play a prospect when you wouldn't say any of this shit yourself.
          57:33But the way I think about that one, which is, like, there's a cheaper option, it's like, hey. Great.
          57:38So aside from evaluating which option you're gonna go with, it sounds like you're gonna do something. Mhmm.
          57:43It's just a matter of who. Right? Great.
          57:46So you're gonna do something. You're just trying to figure out who it is. So let's just take price aside for a moment.
          57:50Out of the two options, just which are you more certain between us and this other company? Who's the company?
          57:55ABC. Okay. Between us and ABC, which just based on what we've talked about in this conversation, price and everything aside, is more likely to be able to get you there.
          58:05Mhmm. Although I think it's you guys. You guys are just a little bit more.
          58:08Yeah. Exactly. And I totally get that because I've never even heard of that company.
          58:11And, you know, we've been doing this for x amount of years. We've worked with thousands of clients. We've worked with people like this, that, and the other.
          58:15So, obviously, we're gonna charge a little bit more. So the real question really isn't about, like, are we more versus them? And, you know, are you gonna spend 5 k more and is that gonna be the big burn?
          58:25You told me you wanted to get to $400,000 a month in your business, and you also told me that you think we're much more likely to get you there than this other person who's just 5 k cheaper. Mhmm.
          58:35So do you wanna nickel and dime and go with the lesser option and jeopardize the success that you want and then eventually come back later anyways? Or do you just wanna go with us and get it right from the start? Yeah.
          58:44Because if we get you from a 100 to 400, what's 5 k? Yeah.
          58:48And, dude, where most closers mess up is they're always trying to do this thing of, like, I need to prop us up and I need to tear them down. Even with, like, the spouse, it's like, oh, I need to, like, move the spouse aside and, like, make them listen to me. I need to, like, move the competitors aside and show them that we're the best.
          59:06But, like, last month, I closed the STA client. And at the end, they were, like, dude, we're gonna have to let you know in a couple days.
          59:14We're talking to three other three other guys. And I was super I'm always very chill at the end of the calls, and I was just like, cool. Who else are you talking to?
          59:25And they were they told me the other two guys names and I was like, oh. Yeah. One of them is brilliant.
          59:31Like, I know he's brilliant. The other guy, I don't know him so I couldn't tell you.
          59:37But, like, man, you guys are limiting yourself. And they were like, what do you mean? And I was like, you're doing a $100 a month and you're 25.
          59:45Like, you thinking that it's working with us or this other guy who's brilliant at marketing is silly. Like, he's gonna help you with your marketing, and nobody else has done what we do at the rate that you wanna do it.
          1:00:00And you have to think through this in order of priority, like and I relisted what they need to do to grow their business. And I was like, so in order of priority, come work with us.
          1:00:11And then in three months, go work with that guy also. Like, you guys are just being silly. And they were paused and they they started speaking Spanish.
          1:00:21There was three of them. And I just hung out with them while they were speaking Spanish. And we got to the end and they were like, alright, man.
          1:00:29Can you just give us a couple days? And I was like, nope. I'm not doing that.
          1:00:34And they were like, what do you mean? And I was like, because that's silly. Like, there's all we're all here together.
          1:00:40Why could we not just make the decision? And they were like, well, dude, like, we I messaged you on Instagram yesterday and I was like, yeah. So, you're smart.
          1:00:49I'm not following up with you in three days. Like, let's just decide right now. Yeah.
          1:00:54And it was super chill like that and they spoke Spanish again. And then they're like, alright.
          1:01:00Let's do it. Yeah. And the thing is what you said about the closers try to bulldoze.
          1:01:06What I try to teach people is,
          1:01:08yeah, you don't wanna because if if you just are like crapping on this other company, now granted there's there's ways you can just demolish the competitor like, if you try to Google them and they have no website Yeah. You could be like, yeah, it seems like a real decision. It's like, you're just like, this person doesn't even have a website.
          1:01:24Uh-huh. So that's who you're deciding between? They're like, uh, and it just kinda seems dumb.
          1:01:28Yeah. But let's say it is somebody legit. What I try to do is just educate them on the options.
          1:01:33Mhmm. It's like, well, look, like, yeah, they seem like they're legit. You could definitely go with them, but I guess it depends on what you want.
          1:01:37Yep. Right? Like, if you're looking for it would depend on the situation.
          1:01:40But if you're looking for x y z, they would maybe be better. But if you're looking for somebody who would has done bam, the bam, the bam, the bam, the bam, and who's the best, it's gonna be a little bit more expensive, but you get it right the first time, then obviously, we're gonna be the better route. You know, it's also like if somebody's trying to, let's say, decide between doing like a low ticket model and a high ticket model, and the person I'm pitching against is telling them to do low ticket, do ascend a high ticket, and I'm telling them just to do a call funnel to high ticket, and this person is doing a $150 a month.
          1:02:10Instead of being like low ticket doesn't work, I'd be like, dude, low ticket's great. Now, what I would say for you guys is from my experience working with thousands of and seeing companies just like yours, case study one, case study two, case study three, get to 800,000 a month.
          1:02:26The way they do it is they go from one to about four to five, six hundred with a call funnel. Mhmm. They get their messaging right, their setters right, they get their sales team right, because you have to have all that working anyways to be able to make the shift.
          1:02:37So it's not that you shouldn't do that, but that's more for when you get up to here, and you gotta make sure you make the decisions in a proper way of sequence. So I think that's a great idea. Yeah.
          1:02:46I would just do it here for you guys, not here. Yeah. You know, and and honestly, we're really great at low ticket funnels, and if I thought that, yeah, that's what you needed now, I just would've pitched you that.
          1:02:56Yeah. But you see how I'm, like, educating them on their options Mhmm. I'm not necessarily diminishing the because when you diminish the other thing, they're just what's in their brain?
          1:03:06Oh, they're a closer. They're just gonna say whatever they
          1:03:09gotta say. Mhmm. You know?
          1:03:11And for the salespeople, the world's a small place. And if you get in the habit of, like, talking shit, it'll come back.
          1:03:19Quick, hilarious story. Do you remember when you were trying to close Josh Johnson on traffic and phone Oh, yeah. Of course.
          1:03:27Ever back in the day? Yeah. I had a sales call with him, like, three days before and was trying to close him into my program.
          1:03:35Right. And I remember him telling me like, yeah, dude. I'm talking to Cole.
          1:03:39I might buy this other program. And I was like, dude, you don't wanna do that. And I granted I was 21.
          1:03:45Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
          1:03:46And I was like, dude, you don't wanna do that? Like, do you wanna work with people that specialize in the agency space or like a general business coach? And he was like, well, yeah.
          1:03:55I see that. And I was like, dude, they're general coaches.
          1:03:59Like, they don't, they're not gonna help you grow your agency. And he was like, alright, dude. Well, I'm still gonna talk to Cole.
          1:04:06And then, he I think he maybe, like, gave you that feedback and it, got circulated so fast.
          1:04:13Then you got eviscerated. Yeah, dude. And I felt like an idiot.
          1:04:16Felt stupid.
          1:04:17Yeah. Taylor came after you. Yeah, dude.
          1:04:19That is pretty funny. But it was a good learning lesson for me. I was like, yeah, I'm never I'm never doing that again.
          1:04:25So the question is is do you ever get blank when objections come up? Like, do you ever just not know what to say? Well, a lot of closers do quite frankly and that's why they book follow-up polls.
          1:04:34But the key is is that because I I this is I am very passionate about this. Closers have a process and discovery.
          1:04:44Like, they never forget what to say in discovery. They never forget what to say in the pitch Mhmm. Because they train on that and they have a process to fall back on.
          1:04:52You know? So, like, what's the quote that you're not as you know, you don't ascend to whatever your thing is, you fall back on your training. Mhmm.
          1:04:59And so but what's funny is is, like, they get to the close and it's just this cross their fingers after I drop the price, hope you buy. Yeah.
          1:05:06And then whenever they get resistance, then their cortisol goes up, their emotions get flushed, and then they, like, can't think. They go in the fight or flight, whatever. So the key is is that you have to have enough training to be able to essentially be able to always fall back on a process and objections.
          1:05:19Yeah. So, like, what's my process if you say I wanna think about it? Almost no matter what you say, the first thing I say is, hey, no problem.
          1:05:25That's totally cool. Like, let me ask you this just because we've been through a lot today. You know, I covered step one, step two, step three that we'd be implementing together.
          1:05:32How do you actually feel about the like, do you feel like money and everything aside, that is what you need to get to that goal. And they'll usually be like, yeah, you know, blah blah blah blah blah.
          1:05:44And then it'll be like, okay, great. So, like, money and everything aside, you a 100% believe this will get you to x y z revenue.
          1:05:51Yeah. And that that second that's called a double tie down. Mhmm.
          1:05:54That second tie down is the key because it's very strong. Like, do you a 100% I'm I'm actually trying to get them to say no. Yeah.
          1:06:01And if they say yes, I mean, you know, like, at that point, it's just logistics. But I'm trying to get them to say no because they'll be like, well, you know, then it's oh, I talked to this company in the past and it didn't work.
          1:06:13So I'm just a little bit concerned about that. Gotcha. So if we just isolate that for a second and really, like, outside of that bad experience, is that the only thing giving you pause to moving forward?
          1:06:22Yeah. Mhmm. Okay.
          1:06:23Great. So now I know I have to cover that. Then then I got then I can come back to basically, are you certain it's gonna work?
          1:06:30Then I can move on to logistics. And then how am I gonna cover that? The first thing is you go into discovery.
          1:06:36Because a lot of people like, yeah. I've been burned in the past, so I just don't know about this. And then what's, you know, the terrible closer say?
          1:06:43Oh, well, have you ever dated before? And then it's like, yeah. Okay.
          1:06:48Well, would you if your girlfriend broke up with you, would you never date again? It's like you don't wanna do that. Yeah.
          1:06:54Right? What you wanna do instead is, oh, well, tell me about what happened in that company. Yep.
          1:06:58Okay. Like, what was the difference between what you thought was gonna happen and what was actually implemented? And dude, I totally get it because we're put in places all the time where essentially we have to pick up the pieces after somebody overpromised and under delivered.
          1:07:10Mhmm. And what we found just doing this with thousands of clients, and it's totally just like your situation, is typically when it comes to one of three things. Either number one, that the process they implemented just didn't work.
          1:07:23Like, the they they they serviced you well. It's just that what they tried to implement in terms of strategy was maybe outdated or not customized to your business or something along those lines.
          1:07:33Number two is, like, the strategy was good. It's just the service wasn't. Like, it took forever.
          1:07:38They didn't support you in the right ways, etcetera. Or number three is, like, maybe both were good and, like, you just kinda fucked it up. Mhmm.
          1:07:44Or, like, maybe you just didn't show up in the right way you should. So which one of those three do you think it was? Yeah.
          1:07:50And then they're gonna pick one. But the thing is is they're gonna pick number one or number two most likely. And obviously, I'm forcing them to diagnose it in a way I already know how to handle.
          1:08:00Right? So if they're like, well, yeah, it was the method. Okay.
          1:08:03What was the method? They told me to do a webinar to get clients. Oh, okay.
          1:08:06Well, can I give you a little bit of feedback on that? They're gonna maybe explain why webinars worked really well a couple of years ago. They're a little bit tougher to work now.
          1:08:13And for b to b, straight to app funnels work way better. Yep. Right?
          1:08:16So you see our method is entirely different. So wouldn't it make sense given the service quality is the same if the method is right that you wouldn't get the same results than before? Right?
          1:08:25So, like, with that out of the way, like, do you really think this is gonna work? Yeah. I guess when you say it that way, I do.
          1:08:32Okay. Great. So, like, you ready to go?
          1:08:34You ready to get started? Can I give you some homework? Go into the close.
          1:08:37Or maybe now we go into a financial thing. Yep. Right?
          1:08:40But you have to segment it that way. So I always And ask what's the funnel? Everybody who watches this back should study how the questions funnel down.
          1:08:47Well, the the funnel is basically there's I used to say there's three main objections, and I like to say that because it's just spiffy.
          1:08:55But there's kinda four. But the most important wasn't one is uncertainty. Right?
          1:09:00So the first thing you have to do is handle anything that's keeping them from being less than a 100% certain that this is going to work. Mhmm. Right?
          1:09:07Because if they don't think it's gonna work Everything else. You know, they're not gonna go talk to their wife and convince their wife if they don't think it's gonna work. Yep.
          1:09:13They're not gonna go transfer money from a brokerage if it's not gonna work. Right? So you have to make sure you get them in a place of like, no.
          1:09:20I think it's gonna a 100% work. Mhmm. Then if they actually do that, if they really believe it's going to work, like, truthfully actually believe, not even not faintly say it.
          1:09:29Not like, do you think it's gonna work? Yeah. I, uh, I think so.
          1:09:34Oh, okay. Great. Well, let's get you you know?
          1:09:35No. It's like, I think so. Like, what's really going on?
          1:09:38Like, do you think it's gonna get you there or not? Yeah. But if they're like, no, dude.
          1:09:41I totally think it's gonna work. Then the the three below that is really just logistics. We have timing, we have financial, and we have spouse.
          1:09:51Right? And then, obviously, they'll usually bring one of those up, but if they a 100% think it's gonna work, I funnel into one of the logistics.
          1:10:00Right? But if you handle a spouse without doing uncertainty first, you're actually handling a smokescreen. Yep.
          1:10:06Does that make sense? For sure. I
          1:10:08think because I've closed b to c so much, the way I think about it and the way I teach b to c is, like, we're either gonna be supporting someone in making a decision or pushing them to make a decision. So, like, in b to c, the reason I start with, like, well, how are you feeling? Is because, like, there's a very real thing that I wanna discern, which is do they have a logistical thing that I need to work through, or they just is it just fear?
          1:10:36And then once I know it's fear, I'm almost always gonna then delineate, is this a prideful person or is this just a person who's fearful? Because if they're closer to, like, pride kinda know it all arrogant, I know I'm gonna have to push them to make a decision.
          1:10:55They're just scared, they're going to need to feel supported to make a decision. Yeah.
          1:11:01And so, like, if I'm talking to a single mom with three kids who's working full time, I don't wanna, like, push her into making a decision because she's already stressed out by life.
          1:11:13If she feels like I'm adding stress to her life, she's gonna get off the call. And so I'll move much more into a line of questioning that's supportive.
          1:11:23So it's, hey. Can I ask you a personal question?
          1:11:27And this is gonna sound tough. Like, if we don't make some sort of change, like, hearing you talk about your schedule right now, your kids, like, do you really wanna, like, be stuck in this for the next six months?
          1:11:44Well, no. Of course not. Yeah.
          1:11:46And, like, this is extremely fucking scary for you. Like, I I see that.
          1:11:51Like, this is a huge decision. Yeah. It's massive.
          1:11:55Well, I don't like, I want you to know, like, I see that for you and I'm on your team. Like, anything I say, this is gonna be a big scary decision in this moment.
          1:12:10And, like, that's not gonna go away. But I need you to know, like, we're gonna hold your hand through this process and that we have your back. Like, I'm gonna text you from my personal cell phone.
          1:12:21You're gonna meet with coach so and so. I so deeply see the situation that you're in and I know it's not easy. And when I look at what you wanna do for your kids and for your life, like, I just wanna help you get there.
          1:12:36Like, will you trust us to help you start moving down that path? Like, will you please let us help?
          1:12:43And it's very supportive. Let's help you make sure you know you're supported. Whereas with the farther end of the spectrum, the more like prideful, dude, I already blah blah blah blah blah, very like out there energy.
          1:12:59I'll have a much more direct line of questioning that's like, dude, can I shoot it with you straight? Yeah. Okay.
          1:13:06This is gonna piss you off. Is that okay? Yeah.
          1:13:09That's fine. Dude, you've been stuck for six years.
          1:13:12Mhmm.
          1:13:14Pause. And, like, dude, I'm not trying to be an ass, but, like, unless we acknowledge the reality of what's going on, we're not gonna be able to change it.
          1:13:24Earlier, you told me you wanna get to $300 a year. If you're just leveling with me, is that gonna happen if you're staying where you're at?
          1:13:33No. Of course not. So I guess the real question, dude, and again, this feels pointed but it is the real question, is is that goal actually real and meaningful to you or is it just a thing that we're talking about?
          1:13:48No. It's real and meaningful. Well then, dude, you know what the right things to do are.
          1:13:53Mhmm. So are you gonna do the right things? Yes or no?
          1:13:57And that's that's how I've always kinda looked at it is like, I'm either gonna be pushing this person really hard to make a decision and I'm probably gonna have a fifty fifty break if they're gonna say fuck you and end Zoom or if they're gonna listen. Mhmm. Or I'm gonna need to just stay in a remarkably supportive
          1:14:14hand holding frame. Yeah. That's that's very very good.
          1:14:17I I have like what I call the nervousness close. Where what happens is is a lot of times when they're like, no, I a 100% wanna do it. And then you kinda get to the point and they just, like, they just can't make a decision.
          1:14:31Mhmm. And then you're like, well, know, what's going on? Like, what's coming up for you?
          1:14:33And they're like, you know, like, they don't know what to say. You can just this is like what I do is I give them the objection, which I'm like, oh, it just kinda seems like it's a little bit of nerves.
          1:14:44Mhmm. You don't wanna say, oh, is it fear? Yeah.
          1:14:47I used to do that when I was closing. Is it fear? Like, it's not fear.
          1:14:51Are you just scared? It's not fear. And I'll be like, oh, it's just a little bit of nerves.
          1:14:55And like, yeah. You know, it's a little bit of nerves. But like, look, the nerves are good.
          1:15:00Mhmm. That means there's some weight to this. There's some meaning to it.
          1:15:02Like, nothing ever built in the world was or nothing ever great in the world was built by somebody who wasn't a little bit nervous at first. Yeah. So, like, their nerves are really irrelevant in this conversation.
          1:15:09The real conversation is who do you wanna be? Like, do you wanna be the type of person who can feel the fear and do it anyways? Or the type of person who lets that type of nervousness dictate their decision making.
          1:15:21Which is it? Mhmm. Oh, you know, it's obviously this person.
          1:15:24And then you can kinda go into more of the support of her whatever frame. But I used to like I don't like, visually, I visualize a lot of things. It's like I would they don't, sometimes they just can make a decision because it is nerves.
          1:15:36I just give them that objection. Uh-huh. I'm just like, oh, is it a little bit of nerves?
          1:15:39Yeah. Yeah. It's nerves.
          1:15:41And then you're like, oh, yeah. Good. Yeah.
          1:15:43Like, that's exact I I would think you're an alien if you weren't a little bit nervous. Uh-huh. Like, nothing ever great in the world was built by somebody who wasn't a little bit nervous at first.
          1:15:51Yeah. I got that line from Taylor. I've just used it ever since for, like, seven years.
          1:15:55Like, you know when you're in sales, you just get a line from somebody and you just you're like, oh, no reason to replace the line. Yeah. It freaking works.
          1:16:01Mine is
          1:16:03a hey, does it can I ask you a weird question? Does it feel like your head and heart are like playing tug of war? That's pretty good.
          1:16:11Yeah. Like and like, I'm only asking because I've been through this where like your heart is like, I know I wanna do this, but your mind and your body is like, don't fucking do it.
          1:16:23Mhmm. And it feels like you're playing tug of war. And they'll be like, yeah.
          1:16:27It does feel like that. Yeah. It's heavy.
          1:16:31Yeah. Super heavy. Well, which one do you think we should listen to?
          1:16:34Your heart or your body that's freaking out? Which one do you think is gonna take you farther? Well, probably my heart.
          1:16:41Yeah. It's just an internal tug of war. Like, brain's trying to keep you safe.
          1:16:46Your brain's yelling at you to not do it. You hear your mom's voice in the back of your head be saying you're gonna be a failure and this is bad. But your heart knows.
          1:16:55Like, your heart is the thing that lit up when earlier, you told me about what it would mean to make $10 a month. Mhmm. That was your heart lighting up.
          1:17:04And now your heart is like whispering at you like, hey, you know you need to do this. But every adult that you've ever interacted with in your head right now is like, nope, you're a loser.
          1:17:16Yep. So which one? Yeah.
          1:17:19You know, do you have any other spiffy lines that you just used for a long time? I have one that is this is more on the pitch and it still works.
          1:17:29Like, I'll tell you what it is. So, like, when you're stacking the so, like, the a lot of times the way I pitch, I'll be like, hey, so the reason most people fail at x y z is because of this.
          1:17:41Mhmm. Right? And the problem or sorry.
          1:17:44I'll do it like this. I'll be like, one of the when it comes to x y and z, one of the biggest mistakes people make is a b c. Right?
          1:17:50And the problem with that is when you make that mistake, these things happen that are problems. And ultimately ends in this consequence. So instead, what we do is feature, which allows you to benefit and ultimately benefit of the benefit.
          1:18:02Right? So then when I get to the benefit of the benefit I can give an example if that seems too like esoteric.
          1:18:08When I get to the benefit of the benefit part, one of the best lines is is like, and then when you finally have this in place, what happens is is now you have a business that's an asset that produces income independent of your time. I'm telling you, that little line, people go, yeah.
          1:18:25Yeah. Like, that little line, people freaking love that.
          1:18:29All the way back to 2017. Like, I I remember saying that one time on a call and somebody was like, that's what I want. Because everybody wants like it kind of appeals.
          1:18:40It it basically appeals to making money by doing nothing. Yeah. But it's like, oh, like, I want something that runs without me.
          1:18:45And then if you're selling to the coaching market, it's so so then you have an asset that produces you income independent of your time, so then that frees and funds you to be able to speak on stages, spread your message, write books, and create content, which is probably why you got into this in the first place.
          1:19:00Right? Mhmm. Freaking little.
          1:19:03Slaps. Yeah. It's like little spiffy things that you get.
          1:19:06Yeah. And it's funny is like when you're selling and you're especially you're a salesperson, you just like you pick up these little things where you're like, oh, I said that and that worked really well.
          1:19:14And then, like, kinda goes in the database. Yeah. You're thinking about it in the shower later.
          1:19:18Yeah. Like, oh, that one works. You're like, I gotta use that one again.
          1:19:21Yeah. You know? Do you have any other others of those?
          1:19:23Yeah. When I'm, like, transitioning from, like, kind of goals, current situation into what we call, like, pre pitch. Yeah.
          1:19:30That kind of area of the call.
          1:19:32I'll do this thing where I like pull out and intentionally create some space. Like I'll slow down a lot. And I'll say, hey, can I ask you a weird personal question?
          1:19:43I like that frame especially in b to c. Like, can I ask you a personal question? Right.
          1:19:48Especially early on because they're always gonna have some degree of, like, who's this person? What are they trying to get out of me? And so I'll use that frame a lot.
          1:19:57And I'll say, I kinda had this thing for a while, and I have a sense you might have it too. And I'm just curious.
          1:20:05But I had this, like, chronic thing for a while where I would describe it as, like, I feel like there's this whole other version of me out there in the universe somewhere that's doing all these incredible things, but I couldn't figure out how to get to him.
          1:20:23I know that's weird, but like have you experienced anything like that? 10 out of 10 times they go, yeah.
          1:20:30I've never been able to put words to it, but that is how I feel. And I'll say, what what has that been like for you? Like, I'm curious.
          1:20:38What has that been like for you? Yeah. And they'll stop and they'll go, well, you know, I'm 32 now.
          1:20:44I've always known I was gonna figure something out and be successful. I just, like, I went to college and did the thing and I haven't been able to figure it out. Right.
          1:20:53And I'll go, interesting. What do you think it would feel like to get there?
          1:21:00And they'll always be like, man, it would be amazing. And then that allows me to transition into, can I give you some feedback from everything that we've talked about up to this point?
          1:21:10And they're like, yeah. I'd love that. And I'll go super slow and I'll say, look, getting to know you and hearing your goals and what you have going on in life, I genuinely believe that this is an incredible fit for you and here's why.
          1:21:26But then the key is I call out personal attributes of them. So like it's very clear that you wanna grow, you wanna develop, you wanna be the best you can be.
          1:21:37You wanna realize that potential where you know that you're actually becoming great at life and it's super obvious that you're ready to draw a line in the sand and actually make a change. And then they'll pause and almost all the time they'll go, thank you.
          1:21:52Like, thank you for seeing that in me. What they're actually saying is like, holy shit.
          1:21:57This person sees me for the first time. Yeah. They they see that I'm tenate, that there's something special here.
          1:22:04Do you remember that Ed Mylett talk that he gave I mean, this was, like, 2015.
          1:22:10It was he was on a speaking circuit tour, and he was giving this talk. Basically, the whole talk was about, like, influence. But then the thesis of it was you wanna show up as that person that believe like, it's so rare to have somebody who kinda like believes in you more than yourself.
          1:22:25Uh-huh. And he was using this example of like, sometimes like a grandparent. It's like they just like believe in you and then you're like, where are you getting all this belief?
          1:22:33But they're like, oh, yeah. When you're you're gonna be the president when you grow up, you know, like stuff like And I always say in sales, like, when you can demonstrate to the person that you see something in them or you believe in them more than they believe in themselves, they almost just you have so much influence over them because entrepreneurship and really trying to do anything that breaks out of, like, status quo is so lonely.
          1:22:55Mhmm. And they're so used to nobody understanding what they do to where when you actually see a bigger potential in what they see, when everybody else is saying that what they're trying to do is unrealistic, it's massively influential.
          1:23:07Like, I'll say stuff like this. This is another one of my it's not really a spiffy line, but do I use this all the time in b two b?
          1:23:14Yeah. I'll be like, look. So, like, in terms of getting to a $150 a month, like, that's not really gonna be a problem.
          1:23:19It comes down to three things. It's one, two, and three. And to fix this, you'd have to do blah blah blah blah blah.
          1:23:25But that's kind of an afterthought. What I'm really excited about for you is, like, look. I have clients who are just like you who are doing the same thing.
          1:23:33I don't think they're any better than you at what you're doing, but they're just doing a couple of things differently on the lead and the acquisition in the sales side that allows them to be doing 500 a month in revenue. So, like, the first thing we gotta work on for you is one, two, and three.
          1:23:47But I'm not really worried about that at all. What I'm really excited about when we work together is x, y, and z that's gonna get you to 500 because I don't see any reason why you shouldn't be there. But that's what really lights me up, and I wanna make sure you see that for yourself because you have that potential.
          1:24:03Yeah. And it's like, I just, like, basically shattered their I wanna make a 100 red a month conservative goal. And now they're like, okay.
          1:24:11This guy is so certain that what I thought was a problem is not gonna be a problem,
          1:24:15and we're all we're talking about $500 a month. Mhmm. Does that make sense?
          1:24:18Yeah, dude. Yeah. When Taylor closed Sebastian and I back in the day, it was like a twenty minute call.
          1:24:25And we got on and he was like, alright. What's the goal? And we were like, dude, we wanna get to $50 a month.
          1:24:33We were doing like 20. And he goes he'd leaned into his mic and he's like, not that.
          1:24:39And leaned back. And we were like, what do you mean? And he goes, you can picture Taylor doing this.
          1:24:45100 k a month. Lean back. And we both were it was silent.
          1:24:51And we were like, dude, that would be that would be insane. Like, we're 20.
          1:24:57Yeah. Dude, that would be insane. And he just goes, I'd be disappointed if you didn't do it.
          1:25:03Will you back out? We were like I literally remember like trying to play it so cool.
          1:25:10And I was like, what do you think that would look like? And he goes, pay me and I'll show you.
          1:25:16And he kept doing that. He was like, lean it out. He's like, pay me and I'll show you.
          1:25:21And we sat there and Sebastian asked a question like, could you help us with their ads?
          1:25:27And he just goes, easy. Like, dude, he must have like had a bet with Payton or something about how few words he was gonna say. He just goes, easy.
          1:25:35And we sat there a bit longer, and I was like, well, I think this seems like the smart thing for us to do. And he goes, yeah.
          1:25:43You'd be stupid not to. And we were just like, alright.
          1:25:47We'll pay the invoice. That's so good. That's so good.
          1:25:51So back to because you're mentioning the personal question thing. So another spiffy thing I say is this is what I'm trying to get because a lot of closers will be like, and this is like kills me. Like, so why is that important now?
          1:26:04And you're just like, okay. Like, what expand what what answer did you expect to get, buddy? Yeah.
          1:26:08Because it is. What I say yeah. So what I say is is can I ask you a personal question?
          1:26:14And they're like, yeah. And I'll be like, well, you know, you obviously wanna transition to starting this business.
          1:26:20You know, you're working corporate. You've doing corporate for, what was it, ten years? Ten years now.
          1:26:25So, you know, after all of that time, and I mean, you're making decent money. I mean, I guess, like, why all of a sudden do you wanna make this shift to into entrepreneurship now though?
          1:26:35Like Mhmm. What shifted for you? What happened?
          1:26:38And so I use that all the time. And the the how that breaks down is, can I ask you a personal question? Permission increases compliance.
          1:26:46Compliance is basically the quality of the response that you get to the question that you ask. Yeah. So can I ask you a personal question?
          1:26:53Permission increases compliance. Also, can I ask you a personal question? Presupposes you're gonna get a personal answer?
          1:26:59And then what I do, it's called permission context question. So the context was, you've been doing this behavior working in corporate for ten years.
          1:27:09And to most people's standards, that actually would seem pretty good because you're making decent money. But now, all of a sudden, you wanna do this other thing.
          1:27:19So after all of that time, what shifted? What happened?
          1:27:23And so what I'm doing is I'm pointing out that people could perceive that that behavior is irregular Mhmm. And I'm asking them to justify it to me because the number one influential principle in Robert Choudini's influence is the principle of consistency Yeah.
          1:27:38That people wanna feel and appear consistent consistent to others and themselves about all decisions. So the fact that they have to qualify and justify that behavior to me makes them give me a quality very quality response.
          1:27:51And then I tack it on with that little phrase, what shifted, what happened. Mhmm.
          1:27:55Because and I got this from Tony Robbins, but he always says that, like, we wanna make a big change in our life. It's not that, like, things slowly build up and then we're like, you know, it's finally time to make the change.
          1:28:06What usually happens is is there a there's like a moment where it just shifts. And the common example that I don't know if he used this, but somebody used it, is like somebody wants to lose weight.
          1:28:16And what happens is is like one day, they haven't gotten on the scale in six months. They get on the scale, and they're finally over two hundred pounds.
          1:28:23And then that just like shifts things. Or their little kid hops on their lap and says, mommy, you feel squishy.
          1:28:29Mhmm. Right? And that's like the so it's always bringing them back to the moment of decision.
          1:28:34And that's really the core why and urgency. If you ever get that on a sales call, that's when you know you've got it, is when they have to describe, like, that moment of decision.
          1:28:43Mhmm. And then when they do that and they're describing that to you, what happens is is they have to, by the nature of describing it, bring back all of those emotions associated with that experience, which are the emotions of change.
          1:28:57Yep. Does that make sense? Makes perfect sense.
          1:28:59And more importantly, they're not just telling you, they're telling themselves. So I use that little framework permission, context, question.
          1:29:05Mhmm. And also, I do it in a way that's like, I do it on purpose.
          1:29:10It's like, you know, you've been doing this for like what, you know, ten years now. I mean, like, after all of that time, you know, why all of sudden do you wanna shift now though?
          1:29:21Mhmm. So you see how it's like when you ask it like that It's a genuine opposed to like throwing a dart Yeah. Is more effective Yeah.
          1:29:30For whatever, you know, for for whatever reason that I cannot fully expect.
          1:29:34Well, there's a influence Robert Cialdini. One of the other studies they did was like the because study. Yeah.
          1:29:40The implied reason. And they the way they did this study is they went to a college campus where there was a long line of people waiting for something. I think it was at the printer.
          1:29:50And they had someone walk up to the front of the line and say, can I cut in front of you? And the success rate was really like twenty five percent. And then as soon as they added in the because, what was crazy about it is that reason Reason didn't even matter.
          1:30:05Yeah. Like, if you just said because I need to, it it was like a 90% compliance rate.
          1:30:11So I think also what you're doing there is like the by propping it as you're already kind of, like, in an ideal situation, it already it also, like, creates that because scenario of, like, what is the reason?
          1:30:27And it leads them to justifying the reason and looking for one. Because when you do the, well, why change now?
          1:30:35It's like, what do you expect them to say other than, well, if I don't do it now, when? Because why not now? Like, it's you just get these silly little responses because it sounds like a silly question when closers do it.
          1:30:47Another spiffy thing I like to say. This is this is the thing I have taught more
          1:30:52than anything ever. You're you're gonna know this probably word for word. Do you know what it is?
          1:30:56I'll see. The financial objection framework? Mhmm.
          1:30:59I've taught this more. I've said these words maybe more than any words in my entire life. So it goes so basically, after you let's say, you pitch the investment and you're like, yeah, it's just 10 k.
          1:31:12And they say, oh, okay. That sounds great. I just gotta find the money.
          1:31:16And you say, hey. No problem. Totally get it.
          1:31:18Outside of the money, like and this is what we cover earlier. Right? Outside of the money, just on the process, do you feel like those three things we cover, the three things we'd be implementing together is exactly what you need to be able to get to x y and z outcome?
          1:31:32And they're like, yes. Gotcha. So money aside, you're a 100% in.
          1:31:35And they're like, oh, yeah. Totally. Like, I really wanna do this.
          1:31:37It's just fun and finances, And they're saying it with, like, the certainty. Mhmm.
          1:31:41Not the waffling, not like, I think so. Uh-huh.
          1:31:45If they say that, I say, I I think so. Like, what's really going on? You know?
          1:31:48And I just try to make it fun, which when you mind read like that Uh-huh. It when you can call out what's going on in here opposed to what what they're saying, it actually diffuses all, like, the masks of the conversation and it makes it real.
          1:32:02But anyways, let's just say, like, no. No. I totally wanna do it.
          1:32:04You're like, okay. Great. So look like most of our clients do it upfront, but for certain clients who really wanna do it like you, but finances are standing in the way, we break it up.
          1:32:16So are you open to having an honest conversation financially, getting everything on the table so we could see if there's a way to make this work now, or at the very least, we can create a game plan for you to work towards this in the future. Mhmm.
          1:32:28And they're like, yeah. Cool. So let's just kinda run through your finances then, and then I get three key I say, cool.
          1:32:35So what's your net incoming thirty day cash? So in other words, what do you have coming in in the next thirty days after you pay your personal expenses and what have you? They're like, I'm gonna have $3 leftover.
          1:32:45Okay. Great. $3.
          1:32:46And what's your cash on hand right now exactly? And they'll be like, nothing. And I'll be like, well, I'm not asking what you can spend right this second.
          1:32:53I'm just asking, like, how much do you actually have access to right now just so we have the landscape of what's available? And I might even throw it out. I don't even know if you could do this right now, but at the very least, again, I wanna make sure I know what to tell you practically so that you know how to build towards this.
          1:33:08And they'll be like, well, I have because I wanna know what's in their account. Mhmm. So they'll be like, oh, I have, you know, 17 or $17.
          1:33:14Okay. Great. And then what about credit?
          1:33:16Oh, I got x, y, and z. Then through that, because you can see what I pitched the painful price. I have the payment plans at the back of my head.
          1:33:24So now I know what's the best payment plan that they can do. And so I have that in my head of what I'm gonna pitch. Mhmm.
          1:33:31And then I'll be like, and you really wanna do this. Right? And they'll be like, yes.
          1:33:35So that's my because after like, you know, digging on the finances a little bit, that kinda pushes them away. Yeah. So that's my way of pushing them back in.
          1:33:42Mhmm. I'll be like, so you really wanna do this. Right?
          1:33:43That's me pulling away? They're coming back in. And they'll be like, yeah.
          1:33:47And I'll be like, well, look, like, in your situation, I don't think doing this all upfront, I wouldn't even recommend or even allow you to do that. But I also don't think the best thing for you to do based on what we talked about earlier is to do nothing.
          1:33:58Mhmm. So what I'd be willing to do for you is let you in for half down.
          1:34:04That way, you can implement x, implement y, implement z to where when that next payment comes around thirty days down the road, you already have a, b, and c build out.
          1:34:15You have tons of momentum to where it's gonna feel almost like an afterthought. So if I was willing to do that for you, are you willing to move forward right now? And I'm telling you, I've closed more people with that language than anything in my entire life.
          1:34:32And I have I beg people to do that. Uh-huh. I'm like, please use it.
          1:34:36Just It works. I I I teach that so often because it's basically double tie down. So I isolated the finances the only thing.
          1:34:44I'm like, hey. You really wanna do it for people like you who really wanna do it, and it's just finances sitting in the way.
          1:34:49We break it up. But in order to break it up, I gotta know what's going on financially, whatever. I get permission for to talk about financials.
          1:34:54And people, like, think all that's, like, scummy. It's like you gotta realize to do this, they have to have told you twice that, like, they a 100% wanna do this. Mhmm.
          1:35:03It's the top priority. So, like, by that logic, they'd be they're gonna be willing to share with you whatever as long as you're not weird about it.
          1:35:09So then I get those three metrics. The first one I get is a net thirty day cash because it's less invasive. I wanna get them in the pattern of asking a question.
          1:35:18Yep. So it's less invasive than cash on hand, but the cash on hand is the main one in credit. So I asked the easy one first and the harder two second.
          1:35:25Then I say, do you really wanna do this? And I say, well, look, I don't even think you should do option one, which is kinda like more authority preeminence frame.
          1:35:33Mhmm. But I also don't think you should do nothing. And then I frame I gave him a two pay.
          1:35:37But you see how when I gave him a two pay, I basically made it seem so good. Yeah.
          1:35:42And then I tack it on with the end with if I'm willing to do that for you right now or sorry. If I'm willing to do that for you, are you willing to move forward right now?
          1:35:51Mhmm. And what's so key about that is anytime you're con making a concession, which, I mean, going from a paying full to a two pay would be a concession.
          1:36:01So anytime you're making a concession, you wanna ask for something in return. Now more often than not, the best thing you can ask for is a decision now.
          1:36:12But do you see how, like, some people will go through the whole thing. I'll be like, oh, man. You did it perfect.
          1:36:17I'm like, great job. Great job. And then they get to the end, they're like, so we'll just give you a toupee.
          1:36:21Uh-huh. And then he's like, thanks. Well, that means a lot.
          1:36:23I'll get back to you tomorrow. Yeah. She's like, no.
          1:36:25No. No. You gotta say if I'm willing to do that for you, are you willing to move forward right now?
          1:36:29You're trading the terms for a decision now.
          1:36:34Yeah. You close so many people with that. And if they say if they waffle, you you deal with it a little bit, then maybe you go down to a three pay, and it's like, but look.
          1:36:41If I'm gonna do that for you, you also need to give me a case study. So I ask for another thing in return. Yep.
          1:36:45Or you ask for, I need you to get you I mean, you could do, I need you to get through this part of the process within seven days. Yeah. You know, whatever.
          1:36:52If they do it or not, whatever. And then it's again, so if I'm willing to do that for you, you willing to move forward right now? That's like the key phrase.
          1:37:00And you can get so many and a lot of times that, I'll hit that, then they'll be like, ah, discombobulated.
          1:37:08And then it's like, hey, man. Like, what's going on? And they're like, ah.
          1:37:10I'm like, is it just a little bit of nerves? Yeah. And then we go into the nerves.
          1:37:13Yeah. And then we loop back around, deal with the fear a little bit, boom, right back in. But I've taught that framework I have used more than anything else in my entire life.
          1:37:22It's also very
          1:37:24it's also just very strong leadership. Because once someone's in that identity pattern of, like, finances are tight, I'm I'm feeling broke and they're in that identity pattern, they're also probably in a behavior pattern of, like, not checking their credit card balances, nervous to open up their bank account.
          1:37:44And so they're also when they're in that identity pattern, you have to, like, break it down with them because they probably don't know their numbers for themselves because they're in the broke identity pattern. If they did know their numbers, they would just look at you and say, dude, I can't afford this.
          1:38:01Here's where my financials are at, but I do wanna do it. Is there any way you could split it up into x? Yeah.
          1:38:07Yeah. So if they're not leading with, here's what I can afford, can you do that? Then it means that they're not solution aware.
          1:38:17They're just in an identity pattern. Yep. So you have to actually break it down or they'll just stay in the I can't afford this because I'm currently identifying as poor
          1:38:27right now. Yeah. And you know the other funny thing about that is is, like, sometimes they'll be I'll have them, like, look at their statements or whatever while we're on the call.
          1:38:37Mhmm. Not sharing their screen, but, like, you know, I can tell that they're looking into it. And and they'll be like They'll be like And and then and then they'll start to say something and I'll be like, John, it's worse than you thought, isn't it?
          1:38:50Yeah. And they're like he's like, yeah. Yeah.
          1:38:52John. So you gotta cut them off. Yeah.
          1:38:54Because what's gonna happen is They'll start unraveling. Yes. So you gotta cut them off.
          1:38:58It's like, look. Like, let's just see what it is. I I don't even know if you can do this, but we need to have an honest conversation because the worst thing I could do
          1:39:10is not have clarity on that and then leave you in a place where you have nothing to work towards in the future. Yep. So like, what's the damage?
          1:39:18Yeah. I'll usually be pretty teasy. Like, when I see them be like, oh.
          1:39:22Like, it's a Okay. Do you know roughly how much you have in your account? Yeah.
          1:39:26Probably like $5. Alright. Well, let's check real quick.
          1:39:29And then it's the Oh. I'll usually stop and be like, dude, it sounds like we need to get making some more money.
          1:39:36Yeah. I'll be like, yeah, dude. It's worse than I thought.
          1:39:40Well, bro, what do we do? Do you like, should we just start working towards making more money?
          1:39:46Yeah, dude. I need to make some more money. It's true.
          1:39:51Yeah. Alright. But there's a like, one of the mental models I have is like, the last the end of a sales call is like a pressure pot with like those steam release valves Mhmm.
          1:40:01At the call. And what elite closers Is use humor to release the compression. They know how to release pressure in the right time and in the right way.
          1:40:10Closers that I see struggle, they haven't understood that concept yet. Well, do you know why? It's because they have too much of their identity wrapped up in getting the yes.
          1:40:18Yeah. Like, when you're really good, it just becomes fun.
          1:40:22Yep. And when it becomes fun, you can have fun. Uh-huh.
          1:40:26Because you're like, you're obsessed with just like, how is this gonna turn out? You know, like and you know also that you're a great closer regardless of what happens on this call.
          1:40:35Yep. And that's also what I say is like you have to have a process to fall back on because people just get into fight or flight. I mean, I used to be the same way.
          1:40:44I used to be just like mean, it was literally fight or flight. Oh, yeah.
          1:40:48Flight. Let's book a follow-up call or Uh-huh. Fight.
          1:40:51And I just like literally fight the person. That was like when I first started, I was like so bad. Mhmm.
          1:40:56But you have to have like such a like dot like, I always tell people, don't expect to get the close when you drop the investment. Mhmm.
          1:41:05Expect to get the close after you drop the investment, you handle three objections and then they buy. Yeah. Like, that should be your expectation.
          1:41:13And when you actually expect that, a lot of times you can guess what they're gonna say anyways. Mhmm.
          1:41:18And then you're actually already prepared for it. Yeah. But you're not like mad when they say something other than a yes.
          1:41:24Yeah. Because most people that's what they're gonna do. But there's a lot of propaganda
          1:41:27in the high ticket space these days of, like, if you get an objection, it means that you're not a good closer.
          1:41:35Like, you make No. I mean, are just you know, what's funny is I do think well, here's the thing.
          1:41:41Is that that comes from the the from the idea, which is true that if you don't handle the front end of the call, the discovery, you know, pitch, your rapport, you know, all this stuff.
          1:41:54Right? Your connection with somebody, how deep you go, the level of trust that's built, the level of insight you give, all of that will result in weaker or no objections.
          1:42:03Yes. Like we've all because we've all had instances where you're you're reviewing a call or like a closer comes to a group call they'll be like, they said this and I'll be like, well, buddy, if they said that, like you probably Yeah.
          1:42:14You probably tossed the big no, I did the great no, I'm like, you tossed the you Yeah. The the whole call sucked. But that being said, there's not enough emphasis that like you do need to be good at the close.
          1:42:25Mhmm. And I would say it's not that hard. You'd probably agree with this.
          1:42:28It's not that hard to get people to where they're like, they can do discovery correctly, they can pitch correctly.
          1:42:35For sure. It's not that hard. Mhmm.
          1:42:36It's really not. You say the same thing almost on every call. Yeah.
          1:42:39What's harder is the objections. Little bit of art, little bit of the commitment. You know, you gotta have the grit.
          1:42:44And the thing is too is when you're taking six or seven calls a day, your brain optimizes for expending the least amount of energy and avoiding the most amount of conflict.
          1:42:53Yeah. Right? Because conflict is bad and more energy.
          1:42:57Mhmm. So you trick yourself into follow ups.
          1:43:01For sure. Whereas every time I was in a rut, I realized that I needed to increase like, is how I thought about it for whatever weird reason.
          1:43:10It's like, I needed to increase my energy expenditure at the close from like a 80 to like a one ten. Mhmm. Like, I needed to like over correct a little bit and just be like, I needed to burn a couple of deals by going too hard.
          1:43:22Yep. And then, okay, I can I can find equilibrium again because I'd slid down too far Yeah? Below below equilibrium.
          1:43:29Does that make sense? Makes perfect sense. It's actually the biggest like rut fixer that I have when I'm leading teams is for the next five calls,
          1:43:36you're not allowed to get off the call until you get a yes or a no. Yeah. Like Yeah.
          1:43:41They're gonna say no and hang up before you're willing to end the call. Yep.
          1:43:46And almost always, what'll happen is even if they don't close the next call, they'll watch themselves, like, fight for it and be like, oh, this is what it feels like. Going back to the having fun part, so much of that is gonna be built by how the sales manager or business owner trains and leads and runs the team.
          1:44:09Like, if you're a business owner or sales manager where, like, every sales meeting is hard ass, what are the numbers, discipline, and you're not leading the team having fun, they'll carry that into calls. Right.
          1:44:23Yeah. Like, dude, I've had so many times where, like, I'd pull up a call, we'd watch the first six minutes, and I would just stop and be like, dude, are you drunk?
          1:44:32Like, what is this? And, like, just rip on the closer and tease the shit out of them.
          1:44:40Because it's, like, so bad. It's, like, not even worth reviewing. It just becomes, like, the funniest thing, and everybody teases the closer.
          1:44:48But in a way, them getting teased about it is, like, yeah. I need to loosen up. Mhmm.
          1:44:53Need to take a deep breath because, like, yeah, that was really bad. That was rough.
          1:44:59And so much of that is built by the sales manager. If you enjoyed this podcast, you're also probably gonna like this podcast I also did recently that you can check out by clicking the screen.
          The Hook

          The bait, then the rug-pull.

          Four eight-figure sales teams. One of them — RCA — went from a Sunday-morning phone call to $1M/month in eight months. In this conversation, the two men who built it debrief every decision that made it work and every mistake that almost broke it.

          CTA Breakdown

          How they asked for the click.

          MENTIONED ON CAMERA
          05:40product8-Figure Boardroom Mastermind ↗
          05:40productClosers.io sales team staffing ↗
          FROM THE DESCRIPTION
          PRIMARY CTAWhere the creator wants you to go next.
          OTHER LINKSAlso linked in the description.
          Frame Gallery

          Visual moments.

          Frame at 00:00 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months00:00Frame at 01:20 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months01:20Frame at 02:44 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months02:44Frame at 03:59 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months03:59Frame at 05:31 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months05:31Frame at 07:24 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months07:24
          Frame at 00:00 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months00:00Frame at 01:20 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months01:20Frame at 02:44 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months02:44Frame at 03:59 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months03:59Frame at 05:31 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months05:31Frame at 07:24 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months07:24Frame at 08:29 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months08:29Frame at 09:13 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months09:13Frame at 10:48 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months10:48Frame at 11:56 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months11:56Frame at 13:30 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months13:30Frame at 14:44 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months14:44Frame at 15:51 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months15:51Frame at 17:14 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months17:14Frame at 18:32 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months18:32Frame at 20:02 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months20:02Frame at 21:02 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months21:02Frame at 22:46 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months22:46Frame at 23:57 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months23:57Frame at 25:02 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months25:02Frame at 26:20 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months26:20Frame at 27:50 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months27:50Frame at 29:02 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months29:02Frame at 30:31 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months30:31Frame at 31:51 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months31:51Frame at 33:07 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months33:07Frame at 34:31 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months34:31Frame at 36:00 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months36:00Frame at 36:51 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months36:51Frame at 38:49 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months38:49Frame at 39:29 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months39:29Frame at 40:48 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months40:48Frame at 42:17 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months42:17Frame at 43:51 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months43:51Frame at 44:56 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months44:56Frame at 46:03 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months46:03Frame at 47:40 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months47:40Frame at 48:53 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months48:53Frame at 50:02 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months50:02Frame at 51:18 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months51:18Frame at 53:27 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months53:27Frame at 54:16 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months54:16Frame at 55:14 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months55:14Frame at 56:47 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months56:47Frame at 58:24 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months58:24Frame at 59:40 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months59:40Frame at 60:53 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months60:53Frame at 62:05 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months62:05Frame at 63:10 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months63:10Frame at 64:25 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months64:25Frame at 65:53 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months65:53Frame at 67:33 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months67:33Frame at 68:41 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months68:41Frame at 70:05 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months70:05Frame at 71:25 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months71:25Frame at 72:29 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months72:29Frame at 74:02 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months74:02Frame at 75:53 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months75:53Frame at 76:20 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months76:20Frame at 78:22 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months78:22Frame at 78:53 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months78:53Frame at 80:27 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months80:27Frame at 82:04 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months82:04Frame at 82:50 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months82:50Frame at 84:10 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months84:10Frame at 85:28 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months85:28Frame at 87:13 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months87:13Frame at 88:55 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months88:55Frame at 89:34 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months89:34Frame at 90:47 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months90:47Frame at 92:37 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months92:37Frame at 94:25 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months94:25Frame at 94:54 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months94:54Frame at 96:26 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months96:26Frame at 97:22 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months97:22Frame at 98:41 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months98:41Frame at 100:14 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months100:14Frame at 101:26 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months101:26Frame at 103:18 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months103:18Frame at 104:23 from How We Went From $0 to 8-Figures in 8 Months104:23
          Watch next

          More from this channel + related breakdowns.

          Chat about this