Replace Your Sales Team With a Book: The 7-Figure Book System
A 53-minute interview where a publishing founder coaches a video-business owner, live, on what his first book should be and how it should sell for him.
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Interview
educational
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Big Idea
The argument in one line.
Your first book should be the short, niche one you're tired of talking about, self-published and wired into every part of your existing funnel, because a book is the lowest-friction way to turn browsers into buyers.
Who This Is For
Read if. Skip if.
READ IF YOU ARE…
A coach, consultant or course creator whose curriculum already exists and who keeps putting off turning it into a book.
A business owner who runs challenges, webinars or speaking gigs and wants a cheaper way to get more leads and better sales calls out of them.
Someone weighing a traditional publishing deal against self-publishing and wanting a blunt case for keeping the rights.
A first-time author stuck choosing a topic, a title or a cover, or panicking because their title is already taken on Amazon.
Anyone with no audience yet who wants a concrete launch plan instead of hoping readers find the book.
SKIP IF…
You want a step-by-step writing tutorial; the writing method gets about thirty seconds and the rest is strategy.
You're writing fiction, poetry or a memoir purely for family; the advice here is about books that grow a business.
You expect a neutral view; the guest runs a publishing company, so book-buying advice and the closing call to action point toward his service.
TL;DR
The full version, fast.
A book is the lowest-friction step between someone who has heard of you and someone who pays you, and most experts have already written theirs inside a course or coaching program. Pick the niche problem people call you about, write the shortest book that solves it, give it a clear title and a cover that passes the thumbnail test, and self-publish so you keep the rights and the upside. Then wire it into everything you already run. Give it away at talks and challenges, put a free audiobook, a video summary and a book-a-call page before chapter one, and launch it with a small advocate team, reviews and evergreen promo assets.
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Highlights: books as the browsers-to-buyers bridge, the 8,000-author and $80M credentials, the $7M-a-year book.
01:00 – 03:14
02 · The book already exists
The host admits three things: he needs a book, it's already written in his head, and he wants it top-of-funnel. The guest says a course or coaching curriculum already is the book.
03:14 – 05:31
03 · The four P's and the writing process
Start from the business outcome, then define person, pain, promise and price. Writers use the MORE method; ghostwritten books go a chapter at a time until the voice is right.
05:31 – 09:16
04 · Skip the manifesto, write the niche book
The biggest mistakes are not starting and trying to write a life's-work manifesto first. The lucrative book is the narrow problem people already call you about.
09:16 – 15:59
05 · The cover is a billboard
Covers should be best-selling, not best-looking: grab attention, easy to read, instantly understood. Test it like a thumbnail and niche the design to the reader.
15:59 – 18:05
06 · Shorter is better
Length should be the minimum that delivers the outcome. The guest's first productivity book was short on purpose, and 99% of readers loved it.
18:05 – 19:04
07 · Sponsor break: the host's own challenge
The host pitches his five-day Content to Cash live challenge as the podcast's sponsor.
19:04 – 20:11
08 · Business is simple
A tangent on people who think lucrative has to mean hard, and why a simple business is nothing to be sheepish about.
20:11 – 22:28
09 · Self-publishing vs. a publisher
The taxi-versus-Uber argument: publishers don't market the book, 70% of sales are online, and advances get spent on the launch. Self-publishing keeps the IP and the upside.
22:28 – 26:56
10 · How one book makes $7M a year
Leads, sales, referrals. Free books everywhere for unlimited leads, more and better sales appointments, and a speaking team that gives away books at 50-70 events a year.
26:56 – 29:46
11 · Do free books get read?
The host pushes back on giving books away. The guest says event attendees have already jumped through hoops, and plenty read the book on the flight home.
29:46 – 33:15
12 · AI books and vertical SEO
AI-written books are a race to the bottom that makes quality easier to spot. Books let you rank on Amazon, Spotify and in AI answers, which are less competitive than Google.
33:15 – 34:59
13 · Titles can't be copyrighted
Titles aren't copyrightable, only trademarked phrases are. Check the competing book's review count. Includes a gear-guide ad from the host.
34:59 – 36:45
14 · Selling a book with no audience
90% of authors sell under 100 copies. The launch triangle (launch team, reviews, promotions) is how the guest sold his first book at 19 with no following.
36:45 – 41:05
15 · From a PDF to the book guy
A college dropout's PDF became a book, then a 44-person cohort where 60% published in six months. Being known as the book guy opened every big room.
41:05 – 42:09
16 · The four levels of competence
Your most lucrative book often sits in unconscious competence: the skill you're so good at you're tired of talking about it.
42:09 – 43:36
17 · Niche case studies
A book for mobile notaries with almost 2,000 reviews, real-estate authors raising funds off their books, and an upcoming Tony Robbins and Dean Graziosi book.
43:36 – 46:05
18 · Put the call to action on page one
Only 20% of started books get finished, so the funnel goes up front: free audiobook, video summary (the best-converting VSL), then a book-a-call page.
46:05 – 47:32
19 · Beliefs, strategies, not tactics
A book should make readers believe they can do it, use case studies instead of pitches, give away the best material, and teach timeless strategy over dated tactics.
47:32 – 50:36
20 · Integrate, don't add
The host guards his lifestyle. The guest frames a book as a few hundred hours for a lasting asset, wired into existing challenges, VIP upsells and ads rather than a side quest.
50:36 – 52:37
21 · Why not an anthology book
Turning 140 podcast episodes into a Tools of Titans style book is easy but weak; a good book drives your ideal customer toward one outcome.
52:37 – 53:23
22 · Close
The guest points listeners to selfpublishing.com/thedept to book a planning call.
Atomic Insights
Lines worth screenshotting.
The most lucrative first book is usually the niche topic the expert is already bored of explaining, not their life's manifesto.
A course, coaching curriculum or signature framework is already a book; the work left is packaging it.
A book cover works like a billboard: it has to grab attention, be easy to read and be understood instantly.
Judge a cover the way you judge a thumbnail: shrink it, drop it among its category, and see whether it stands out or blends in.
Write the minimum number of pages that delivers the promised outcome; most nonfiction lands between 15,000 and 60,000 words, so aim short.
Traditional publishers rarely market the book, and about 70% of books sell through Amazon and other online retailers anyway.
A six-figure publishing advance is usually expected to be spent on the book's own launch.
A self-published book that feeds a business can earn millions years after release; one five-year-old book drives about $7 million a year in sales.
Think of a book as a tool for three jobs: leads, sales and referrals.
Speaking at an event and offering signed copies at the booth can return $30,000 to $100,000 per event with no hard pitch.
Only about 20% of books that get started get finished, so a call to action on the last page reaches almost nobody.
Put a free audiobook, a video summary and a book-a-call page before chapter one, where every reader actually sees them.
Offering the audiobook free inside the Amazon preview collects leads from people who never buy the book.
You can't copyright a title; if the book already using yours has fewer than 1,000 reviews, you can outrank it.
A small launch team, a pile of reviews and evergreen promo assets will sell a book even when the author has no audience.
Teach strategies, not click-by-click tactics; tactical books go out of date before they're published.
Being known as the narrow specialist opens bigger doors than being known for nothing in particular.
Anthology books built from interview transcripts are easy to write but rarely drive the reader toward an outcome your business sells.
Takeaway
A short niche book can sell for you.
WHAT TO LEARN
Write the narrow book your customers already ask you about, keep it short and self-published, and put every conversion step before chapter one so the book feeds the business you already run.
02The book already exists
If you run a course, coaching program or signature framework, the book's structure already exists; your job is to package it, not invent it.
Decide the book's business job first, such as top-of-funnel lead generation, before choosing a topic or a title.
03The four P's and the writing process
Define the book's person, pain, promise and price so they match your best existing customers exactly.
Treat the outline as the make-or-break step, whether you write the book yourself or hand it to a ghostwriter.
When working with a ghostwriter, approve the voice one chapter at a time before letting them write the rest at speed.
04Skip the manifesto, write the niche book
Don't make your first book a life's-work manifesto; its scale is what keeps most people stuck for years.
Write about the narrow problem people pick up the phone to ask you about, where you can deliver a fast win that leads into your main offer.
Expect your first book to be your worst; once you learn the process, the second and third come far easier.
05The cover is a billboard
Design for a best-selling cover, not a best-looking one: it should grab attention, read easily and be understood at a glance.
Shrink the cover and place it among competing books in its category; if it blends in, redesign it.
Make it obvious who the book is for in the title, subtitle or imagery, because a book for everyone ends up read by no one.
06Shorter is better
Write the minimum number of pages that delivers the promised outcome, aiming toward the short end of 15,000 to 60,000 words.
Match the format to the reader's problem; a busy reader with time-management trouble wants a short book, not a long one.
09Self-publishing vs. a publisher
Self-publishing keeps the rights and all the royalties, while most traditional publishers do little marketing for the book.
Traditional distribution matters less than it sounds, since about 70% of books sell through Amazon and other online stores.
A traditional advance only makes sense as a deliberate brand play, because you'll usually be expected to spend it on the launch.
10How one book makes $7M a year
Plan the book around three jobs: bringing in leads, raising sales metrics across the funnel, and making referrals easy.
Free or free-plus-shipping copies turn the book into a lead source you get paid for, and those leads arrive already sold.
Teaching from the stage and offering signed copies at the booth can drive large back-end revenue without a hard pitch.
11Do free books get read?
Free copies handed to people who already paid and showed up to an event still get read, often on the trip home.
Even an unread free copy costs you little, because the person still became a lead when they claimed it.
12AI books and vertical SEO
A flood of low-quality AI books makes a genuinely useful book easier to notice, not harder.
A book lets you rank inside Amazon, Spotify and AI answers, which are far less competitive than Google's main results.
13Titles can't be copyrighted
Titles can't be copyrighted, so a taken title isn't a dead end unless the phrase itself is trademarked.
Check the competing book's reviews; under 1,000 means you can likely outrank it, and under 100 means you almost certainly will.
14Selling a book with no audience
Build a launch team, gather reviews and create evergreen promo assets; the launch team is the one piece not to skip.
A book can create an audience as well as monetize one, and it gives you a reason to get booked on podcasts and media.
15From a PDF to the book guy
Calling your first draft a PDF instead of a book can make it less intimidating to start.
When people keep asking you for the same help, test it with a small paid cohort before building a business around it.
Being known for one narrow thing beats being known for nothing, and the niche can become your way into bigger rooms.
16The four levels of competence
Look for book topics in your unconscious competence, the skills so natural to you that you no longer notice them.
A specific book for a specific reader beats another broad motivational book that has already been written thousands of times.
18Put the call to action on page one
Most readers never finish a book, so put your calls to action at the front rather than the back.
Open with a free audiobook and a video summary, then a book-a-call page, before the first chapter begins.
A free audiobook offered inside the Amazon preview captures leads even from people who never buy the book.
19Beliefs, strategies, not tactics
A business book's main job is making the reader believe they can do it, backed by case studies rather than direct pitches.
Teach timeless strategy instead of click-by-click tactics, which date the book before it's even published.
20Integrate, don't add
Treat a book as a few hundred hours spent on an asset that keeps bringing in customers for years, not more hamster-wheel work.
Fit the book into the challenges, upsells, ads and events you already run instead of launching it as a separate project.
21Why not an anthology book
Collections of interview transcripts are easy to produce but rarely move a reader toward a single outcome.
A strong book drives your ideal customer toward the same result your business sells, so the two reinforce each other.
Glossary
Terms worth knowing.
Four P's (book planning)
A planning checklist for a business book: the person it serves, the pain they already know they have, the promise the book makes, and the price. All four should match your best existing customers.
MORE writing method
A self-writing process in four stages: mind map, outline, rough draft, edit. The outline is treated as the step that decides whether the book works.
Launch team
A small group of customers, friends and supporters who read the book early, post reviews and promote it during release week.
Vertical SEO
Ranking inside a single platform's search, such as Amazon, Spotify or TripAdvisor, instead of competing for general Google results. These platforms are usually far less competitive.
Free plus shipping
An offer where the book is free and the buyer pays only postage, used to collect paying leads at low cost.
Pull-through
The share of booked sales appointments that actually show up and move forward, one of the metrics a book in the funnel is meant to raise.
Four levels of competence
A learning model with four stages: unconscious incompetence (blind spots), conscious incompetence, conscious competence, and unconscious competence (skills so natural you overlook them).
“When you think about taking people from browsers to buyers, the lowest friction way that you can do that is a book.”
the thesis in one sentence, no setup needed→ TikTok hook↗ Tweet quote
22:32
“My most recent book published five years ago. That book has brought in roughly $7 million in sales over the last 12 months.”
specific number, instant proof→ IG reel cold open↗ Tweet quote
06:39
“The niche book that they're probably bored with, they're tired of talking about, they're thinking that's too specific, that would be the most lucrative book that they could write.”
contrarian advice that flips the obvious move→ TikTok hook↗ Tweet quote
11:29
“Your book cover is a billboard. And a good billboard does three things. It grabs attention, it's easy to read, and you instantly get it.”
surprising stat that reframes where to put a CTA→ newsletter pull-quote↗ Tweet quote
39:07
“I'd rather be known for something than known for nothing. Like call me whatever you want as long as you call me.”
positioning line that stands alone→ IG reel cold open↗ Tweet quote
30:00
“I think the bar has never been lower and it's never been easier to win.”
optimistic take on AI-written books→ TikTok hook↗ Tweet quote
47:02
“Teach timeless strategies and avoid the tactics that will become dated.”
clean rule for any educational content→ newsletter pull-quote↗ Tweet quote
Topic Map
Where the conversation goes.
01:00 – 09:16denseChoosing the right first book
09:16 – 18:05denseCover, title design and length
20:11 – 29:46denseSelf-publishing economics and the $7M funnel
29:46 – 34:59steadyAI, vertical SEO and titles
34:59 – 43:36steadyLaunching and positioning
43:36 – 47:32denseIn-book funnel and content strategy
47:32 – 52:37steadyFitting a book into an existing business
The Script
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metaphoranalogystory
When you think about taking people from browsers to buyers, the lowest friction way that you can do that is a book. If you look at any eight -figure creator, Dan Martell, Cody Sanchez, Alex Ramosi, Gary Vaynerchuk, Mel Robbins, the book was an eight -figure book for them. That was part of a bigger ecosystem that takes browsers to buyers.
I have with me Chandler Bolt, who's been responsible of helping over 8 ,000 authors write books. His business itself has generated over $80 million in revenue.
But what's more impressive is the hundreds of millions of dollars you've helped people generate through helping them write a book. I think the bar has never been lower. And it's never been easier to win.
You know, my most recent book published at five years ago, that book has brought in roughly $7 million in sales over the last 12 months. And that's the beautiful thing about course creators, coaching program owners or businesses is the book already exists. It's just about packaging it and integrating it into the business and into a way that's very meaningful.
What would you say are like the top mistakes people make when it comes to writing their first book? Yeah. I mean, the biggest mistake is that people...
Here are the three things. Number one, I know I need a book. Number two, I know the book's already done.
It's just not on paper. And number three, it kind of seems shallow, but I know the purpose I want my first book to serve. And that is top of funnel.
That is when I speak on a stage, you can go grab the book. That is off the back end of this podcast. Or maybe run an ad where it's free plus shipping.
I don't know. We could talk through all those things. But I don't know.
Help me. Why am I struggling? For a guy that you probably look at and you're like, bro, you should have a book.
Well, you already did the book. That's the great news. So now it's just distilling it into an actual book, but you've already written it.
I mean, it is, and that's the beautiful thing about course creators, coaching program owners or business is the book already exists. It's in the course, the coaching program, the curriculum, even when we're out there and you're talking about, yep, we're coaching people on the three pillars. The three pillars are the book.
And then it's just about packaging it and integrating it into the business and into a way that's very meaningful. And that's where I think, as we were talking, talking about kind of right before this, the idea of kind of a seven figure business with no employees, that is the book.
I mean, I think that is the core premise of why you should do it and why I would do it. And then I think you've seen it firsthand too with Sean. I mean, I remember he talked about, oh yeah, every podcast, every video is sponsored by YouTube Secrets.
I love that model because it's just when you think about taking people from browsers to buyers, the lowest friction way that you can do that is a book. And so if you look at any eight -figure creator, and we did whole case studies and deep dives on this on our YouTube channel, it's like Dan Martell, Cody Sanchez, Alex Ramosi, Gary Vaynerchuk, Mel Robbins, Amy Porterfield, on and on and on and on.
The book was an eight -figure book for them that was part of a bigger ecosystem that takes... browsers to buyers. So good.
What would you say? Like if, you know, it sounds funny. If I paid you, what would be like the first thing we'd go through?
Get clear on the business outcome. Like what, what is the goal of this? You said top of funnel.
So how does this integrate in what you're doing and what is kind of like an ideal outcome? Then we walk through the four P's person paying promise price, which is. should be identical to your best customers, right?
Who is that person? What's the pain that they have that they know that they have? What's the promise or premise that you make with your company and that we would make with this book?
And then the price is pretty straightforward. So we get super clear on that. And then depends on if you wanted to write it yourself or wanted us to write it for you.
If we're writing it for you, then we're starting the ghostwriting process and we're starting to still, okay, your voice, we want to get super clear on the... like when people are writing it themselves, we call it the more writing method, mind map outline, rough draft editing, but the outline is the key piece. And then if we're writing it for you, we say, all right.
is this outline? Like, is this the book? Okay, great.
Now let's go and let's start writing those kind of a chapter at a time in the early days so that you like it and it's in your voice. And then once we feel like, okay, we're really nailing this. Now we're going to pick up speed and write the rest of the book.
And then we move it into packaging and launch. And that's where I would. tied into your challenges that you're running.
And that's what we're doing kind of behind the scenes with Dean Graziosi and Tony Robbins right now is like, okay, you have this thing that's working. How do we use the book to just crank the volume on that and increase all your revenue from those kinds of events? That's good.
What would you say? I feel like one big mistake. I've met a lot of people.
who just will give me their book. And like, they don't have a brand. Maybe they wrote it at some time in their life and they wrote it themselves and it is self -published and all that stuff.
But it's like, I don't know. It's almost like people use it like a, I don't know. It's almost like they wrote the wrong book.
Totally, totally. What would you say are like the... top mistakes people make when it comes to writing their first book and I feel like one could be like don't write a memoir yes but people think everyone thinks they're important to themselves but yeah yeah I mean the biggest mistake is that people don't start And that's, I mean, most people, they're sitting in neutral for years.
And even I've given Dan a hard time over the years of like, man, could you imagine if you did this book years prior? Just how that just totally took off his career. But I mean, I think he'd be the first to tell you, as would a bunch of people, hey, I wish I did this five years earlier.
So not starting. But then to your point, I think that's a big one too, is thinking that their first book needs to be the manifesto of their whole life's work. And so it's so big.
And I think we even kind of talked about this a little bit. It's so big in their mind that they're paralyzed to start. It's the parallel for you of your first video.
Is your first video going to be your best video? Absolutely not. Is your first book going to be your best book?
No. But the beautiful thing about that is learning how to write a book is kind of like learning how to ride a bike. Once you do it, you can just do it again and again.
It's why you don't see many one book authors. You see a bunch of people who have never written a book, and you see the people who have written a bajillion books because they learned the process and they realized, oh, that's not that bad, and then they repeated it. But I think most people try to go way too broad when what they really should do is the niche book that they're probably bored with, they're tired of talking about, they're thinking that's too specific, and that would be the most lucrative book that they could write.
Yeah, I mean... What would you say is, because you said, yeah, lucrative book. I think of it in correlation to business all day.
I understand the intent to create an impactful book. Like you talked about some people use us to write a book that they want their kids to read one day. And yeah, they wrote it for an audience, but hey, if their kids can like have a piece of them, then it's worth it.
Yeah. I mean, what have you found people who write books and they're like, I don't care if this sells or not. I mean, that's great.
That's a big part of our business is people who want to make an impact with the book, but we just didn't change the frame of how we're working with them. It's kind of like we were talking about earlier is, all right, well, if you just write a book that's about your life story and your life work, and it's just for your kids and your grandkids, for most people, they would say, that is one of the best things I've ever created in my life.
Great. We can help with that, but that's totally different than, or maybe it is, maybe there's overlap, but it's often totally different from, the business book and the specific or the niche book.
And if you're going to write both of them, I would not write the general manifesto for your kids first because it's just so paralyzing. You think like, my gosh, generations are going to read this book about my life. And that's awesome.
That's a beautiful thing. And I personally think everyone should do it. I think societally, we should have a rite of passage where you retire and then everyone has this crisis of meaning.
And then you take a year or two and write a book on all the lessons you've learned so far in your life and just how powerful that would be for your kids and grandkids. And even just thinking about my grandpa that he passed away when I was one year old. I never got to learn all these things that everybody raves about.
And so I wish he would have written that book. And... in your business that's not how you look yeah right and so even if i'm thinking about you specifically i'm thinking okay great you've got the main mastermind or sorry the main coaching program that's just crushing getting people results people are staying loving it and then i think i've seen you splinter out some micro things that lead into that yeah um and i would say okay that's probably a signal that that's what the book's about yeah And so it might not be the three pillars or it might not be the whole thing.
It's like, hey, what's the thing that people pick up the phone and say, hey, I need your help with this and you can get them an instant win. And I would write that niche book about that. And then you solve the first problem that rolls into the ecosystem.
Yeah, that's good. I have a girl in my program who. one day was so inspired on the treadmill and she's walking and she literally wrote a book in like two and a half three hours by speaking it yeah and then eventually organize it and edit it and she's stuck on picking the cover and I could imagine that one big mistake people make is not knowing like people don't have taste we were talking about you're like bro you dress really cool is that intentional Nick Some people will put out an ugly book, but have gold inside.
It's the same with YouTube. People have terrible packaging, and I'm sure the information inside the video. But how important is the book cover?
I was at a conference a year ago, and one of the guys, I don't know if you know him, Ryan Leak, he just recently released a book on working with difficult people or something like that. He said he spent a mortgage on his cover.
I like the guy. That's really dumb. He's incredible.
But it is important. Yeah. And he just said the company, I guess the company he was working with, they designed pages inside too.
Or they designed the inside of the book. And it was like, he can have like an average looking book with like average looking pages, or he can have a book that if it's next to someone else on a CEO's desk, which one is going to, you know, that was where he. decided from that frame.
Yeah. I mean, what are some of the biggest mistakes design -wise people have with their books? So many people say, don't judge a book by its cover, but we all judge books by their cover.
I would say that's the only way to judge a book. It is. Yep.
Otherwise, how do I know what it's about or whether or not I should read it? And so I think people. totally miss it when it comes to creating a good cover.
Quite honestly, there's many people that treat their book cover using our style analogy, maybe like I dress, which is not pretty mediocre. I need some help from you in the style department. And then I would say other people go to the other end of the spectrum.
Maybe you're into the spectrum where, hey, this looks really good, but it may or may not be a best -selling cover. We always say it's best -selling cover, not best -looking cover. And so I think it's really important that your book cover is a billboard.
And a good billboard does three things. It grabs attention, it's easy to read, and you instantly get it. Same thing as a cover.
It grabs attention, it's easy to read, and you instantly get it. And so that's where your title and your cover kind of play together, and it should be clear, not clever. And I think a lot of people just get into this weird mode where either they make it too clever or they just pay their...
third cousin who's a graphic designer who's never designed anything. And then they wonder why the book's not selling. You spent so much time and money on this book.
Spend some time and money on a cover, maybe not a mortgage. But it's worth, I mean, it's worth spending good money on it. Yeah.
I mean, and her thing was, she wrote a book for women and I think it should have women appeal. But I don't advise things that I'm just, my intuition would say that it looks generic. it looks Canva created.
And she's like, it was Canva created. So yeah. I mean, would you find like color psychology matters and things like that?
Or, you know? Yes. I mean, you should shrink it down and put it in the category that you're going to be in.
And it's almost like the YouTube thumbnail test. Same thing for a book cover. Just look, put it in the category amongst all the other books and see, does it stand out or does it blend in?
If it blends in, it's probably not that good. If it stands out and it passes what Google would call the BFB test. You ever heard of that?
No. The big effing button. It's like if you think about the homepage of Google, how obvious it is that you...
you type the thing in there and you press the BFB, the big button. And so that's how I kind of think about titles is if I stand back from this sucker, do I instantly get it? And you need to instantly get it and people need to instantly understand that it's for them.
And so yes, for that person, I would say feminine colors that grab attention. I would speak to the fact that it's for females only, either in the subtitle, in the image, or just I would make it so obvious. And that's where a lot of people, they get really hesitant to niche down.
The riches are in the niches. And I think that's where you and I see things very similarly. It's like own your department, right?
So like own that area. I would rather be known for something than known for nothing. And so if you try to do the broad book, oh, this helps women, but it also helps men, but it also helps young people, but also old people.
And then next thing you know, nobody wants to read the book. And so just going. straight for it and super specific and i think that's something cool about your journey too is uh for how successful your business is um and how i don't want to say like i mean we could just say that you you didn't always prioritize your the brand or the content you're putting out but you did prioritize the product you were helping people with which is what's kept you in business a long time but like the reason why somebody would pick you would be like Because it's very clear how you help people.
And then that's why people pay you because it's like, I don't want a generalist. Well, and this is, I mean, really a testament for what you do because yeah, you're right. I mean, I'm a decade in, thousands of books published.
I think early on, I was the brand and then selfpublishing .com was on the backend. And then I saw a bunch of people that were like, hey, you can't sell that business. Like that's too personal brand focused.
I said, noted. Let me switch it up. So then I just push the company to the forefront and then blend it into the background because I know I have a sellable business that's not a job or whatever.
And then, yeah, the company stands on its own, which to your point is great because if you're trying to publish a book, people know selfpublish .com, they're the best. Our product speaks for itself. Our results speak for themselves.
It's not like we're just some random influencer that's like, oh, we can help you with this. But then huge mistake. I think that was a really, really big mistake that I made.
And that's why we're reversing and being intentional about the personal brand because realizing that it's both. It's both and. And by kind of ignoring and neglecting my personal brand, I mean, I've left millions and millions of dollars on the table.
So now we get to fix that. By neglecting a book, I've left millions of dollars on the table. Pot, meat, kettle.
Yeah. Okay, so clear title, the cover design. Now, another one that comes to mind is the size of the book.
You know, I have a friend who she wrote a book called Persuade for Good. She teaches women how to sell. And she's like, Omar, you're like, your first book, just let it be, you know, a few, like just a quick read, a little simple read.
A friend of mine, Phil Jones, Phil, m jones exactly what to say exactly what to say it's like you can read it on an airplane that sounds way more like accomplishable you know whatever my my pastor recently did one through a main publisher though and that was a whole year plus process to write one book and i know the objectives are different i guess when it comes to like the size of the book i mean how much how important is it not important it's Can you deliver on the promise of what people are hoping for?
It's like any product or program or whatever is like, okay, well, do the deliverables matter? Is it a year -long thing? Is it a six -month thing?
It's the same thing. It's no. What is the outcome that people care about?
And what's the, quite frankly, the minimum, or sorry, like the maximum threshold that can... achieve that outcome. Sorry, I mixed that up.
The minimum threshold, the minimum number of pages to achieve that outcome. So if you look at kind of your average nonfiction book, anywhere from 15 ,000 to 60 ,000 words, I would say go on the shorter end of that, deliver a specific objective. And that's kind of how I got started in this whole world was doing that.
And I remember we wrote a book on productivity for entrepreneurs who control their own schedule, struggle with work -life balance, super niche. And then we wrote it short. Because we said, well, hold up.
If you got time management problems, last thing you want to do is read a long book. And 99 % of people loved it. And I'll never forget when we got our first one -star review and someone said, this book isn't even big enough to use for something as productive as a doorstop.
So that made me question it a little bit. But I mean, the fact was, it was achieving the outcome for 99 % of the people who read it, which is being a short, specific book that solves a problem. Hey department fam pausing the podcast to talk about this life -changing Sponsorship, it's me.
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Let's get back into the conversation. Dude, there's some people I like to classify them as hardaholics. Like they want things to be difficult.
Totally. When it's like, we condensed it to the level that you needed to consume it, but. Anyway.
I had a mentor one time who said, business is simple. We make it complicated. Yeah.
Because you have these beliefs about money, these beliefs about business that say, oh, well, if it's easy, well, then it must not be lucrative. And so it's got to be hard. And so then you end up creating this complicated monstrosity of a business that.
yeah, it's then hard to scale. And you think that's what you have to do. And that's why I love kind of the path you're taking with your business.
And it's funny, right? It almost feels like people in society guilt us into, it's like me with the book guy. It's like, oh, you doing anything else?
You still doing books? Or you, when you're talking about the business, you're like, yeah, it's a simple business. And I almost sense like a little bit of sheepishness in that.
And it's like. That's great. I love that.
Your customers love that. That's awesome. Why would we make it complicated unnecessarily?
100. And then the next thing when it comes to like the thing I think about, yeah, is self -publishing your book versus, you know, getting an advance somehow. I don't know.
I know most people probably won't even be able to. But hey, I mean, you can with through relationships and being interviewed. You can be advanced to have a publisher.
So does your company, it's like, I'll own the right to my book. Exactly. Yeah.
I mean, I think about it like this. I mean, I'm going to head to the airport later today. Would you recommend that I take a taxi or an Uber?
Uber. Right? Taxis are this antiquated, outdated model that worked for what has been Uber.
And even these days in Austin, it's like robo -taxi, Waymo, self -driving cars. It's a better vehicle. So yeah, when we work with people, they keep all the upside.
They keep all the royalties. I think self -publishing is entrepreneurial publishing. It's betting on yourself, right?
You own the IP. You own everything. And publishers don't do anything.
They're not going to market your book. They're not going to do anything. They might make a couple calls.
And then, yeah, sure, you're going to have distribution. But 70 % of books that are sold are sold on Amazon and other online retailers. Distribution, like the stuff that they provide is purely vanity and ego.
It's not. actual results. And so I think it's just a dumb outdated model now for some people, maybe that if you've got a massive audience can get a huge advance, then maybe at that stage of your career, it matters if you're going for like this big, massive brand book.
But the dirty secret of that is let's say you get a six figure advance. Well, they're going to expect you to spend it all on the book. And honestly, if you're going that route, you should, because that is the play.
And it's, I'm not going to make any money off of this book, but I'm going to use this as like some big coming out party over here. And that is the play. But I think what's way smarter for most people is just self -publishing it, directly tying it to your business, creating it as a seven -figure business card in the business, and then print money on the back end.
And so that's where, you know, my most recent book published at five years ago. That book has brought in roughly $7 million in sales over the last 12 months because we feed it into everything in the back end of the business. And so just to me as an entrepreneur, that's a way smarter model.
So good. I love that frame. Could you just break down how your book made you $7 million?
Yeah. So there's kind of three core pillars there. Well, actually, I'll zoom out.
I think about a book as how do we use this to get leads, sales, and referrals? So leads, these are people who hear about your business because of your book. We've got a bajillion models of that, right?
Whether it's Alex Hermosi and acquisition .com, a bunch of people wouldn't know about the business if it wasn't for these big book launches. And now, so that'll tie into one thing that we're doing. Then there's sales, putting it in every facet of the sales funnel.
And you watch all your core metrics go up. your close rate, your pull through goes up, your costs go down, and then referrals, that's turning buyers into referrers. And so enabling them to refer you easily in the form of a book.
So that's kind of how I think about it. And then what's working for us specifically is a version of that. So bucket one is we just give away the book for free all over the place, unlimited free leads.
So instead of paying for leads, We're getting free leads or we're getting paid to get leads. That's wildly lucrative.
And those are the best prospects ever. My sales team loves those people because by the time they give them a call, it's done. They're not shopping, they're buying.
And then there's, okay, now that we got a bunch of free leads, how does we use it to create a ton of appointments? So a bunch more appointments, the pull through, the quality of the appointments and everything. So then that...
That ties in on the back end. And then the third pillar is for all of our business development. And so we've built out a speaking team.
We'll speak at, I don't know, 50 or 70 events this year. And most of the time, it's not me. And so the way we've been able to do that is teaching and all the frameworks in the book.
But then they go speak. We give away books at the event. And the next thing you know, that book is everywhere.
And everybody's seeing this red book. And it's all over the event. And then we get a ton of leads.
People end up, you know, working with us and we'll do, you know, 30 to 100K typically per event on the back of that. So that's actually kind of a funny story. I know we both know Ryan Pineda.
That was one of the first times that we saw this really work because I spoke at his event. It was a thousand people. They're like, all right, cool.
We'll bring like two or 300 bucks. And so I speak. And I think a lot of times when people hear me say, like, we make a bunch of money on events, they think this is some kind of run to the back of the room with your Amex three spots.
It's like some crazy sales pitch, but it's not at all. It's just teach, teach, teach. All right.
And then I just, at the end of that talk, I said, oh yeah. And we got, you know, brought a couple hundred copies of the book. Obviously not enough for everybody.
But if you want one, I'll sign it and come by the booth. And then just walked off stage. And the next thing I know, I got people sending me videos of, I mean, there was people running back to the booth.
And it was, I mean, hundreds of people in line. And that's when it dawned on me, oh, this is crazy. And it's valuable.
We're giving away something they would pay $20 for.
I know this is a really long answer, but it's like, man, this is a value add to Ryan, to the event, to everyone, is I'm bringing thousands of dollars worth of my books. And so that's where I would tie it in for you is on the back of every speaking gig, every webinar, included in every challenge, whether it's in VIP upsells or whatever, or if they purchase on the back end, they're getting a signed copy of the book.
It's just like integrated into every piece. And it's just crazy the leverage it gives you in the business. And that's what comes to mind is leverage from an asset that you just create once.
And I think it's hard to train your brain to always think that way. That's why I do love having a podcast because it's like we sit down, we create it once, and then there's this like masterpiece that is online and it could serve thousands of people forever. But once the book is created, the use case is unlimited.
But dude, I felt that this year. I spoke at an event with like 2 ,000 people at it and I felt like I... got everybody at the palm of my hand and I was like, shoot, if I just had a book.
And it's a cool way to serve people outside after the event. I will say, so if you give away a book for free, which I'm very anti, I'm anti -free from the standpoint of like, don't get the book if you're not gonna read it kind of vibe. And I know there's value in it physically being in places, like my name and my thing is in your office, on your desk.
If you didn't buy it, you probably won't read it. What would you say to that? I mean, I think that is true.
People who pay, pay attention, right? So, you know, just the act of swiping a credit card means that you're exponentially more likely to consume the thing. But I think also it's...
I mean, you're having to hop through some hoops to even do that. You've paid to be at this event. You showed up to watch me speak.
And as Zig Ziglar would say, I can't change someone's life in a 45 -minute talk. But if they get my tapes back in the day or if they get my book, well, then I can. I can change their life.
And especially if they work with me on the back end of that. So I think just by having the nature of that is like, hey, they go to the booth, they fill out a card, they get the book, they're taking it with them. I mean, at that point, it's a minimum, it's a free lead.
So it's no skin off my back if they do nothing. But a lot of times they do. And that's where they read the book on the plane ride home.
And they saw 20 speakers. They got one book. And they're reading that book on their plane home.
And they end up booking a call with the team and then signing up to work with us. And so it just turns people into raving fans. And that's why I think it's so aligned with your ethos of content.
It is the ultimate content piece, first of all. I mean, when's the last time you can think of a seven -figure asset in your business that is still generating a bunch of revenue years later? And so I think people get so tripped up by, oh, this is going to take me a couple hundred hours.
Oh my gosh, I don't got a couple hundred hours to do a book. It's like that thing lives forever. Like that is an asset that a decade from now is still going to bring in customers.
But then I think it's aligned with your ethos and where we're very similar is give away all your best stuff for free and people will pay you to tell it to them again. And so just give, give, give, give, give in the book. And then by the time people have finished reading that book, they think I would be an absolute idiot if I didn't work with Omar and if I didn't join this coaching program and all the stuff.
A guy that I admire, his name's Donald Miller, StoryBrand. He said on a reel a few weeks ago, he's like, I thought I had recently, was kind of you know stopped him in his tracks and it was could we be living in a time where the greatest writers are behind us because of ai and now the ability to spin off an ebook or a self -published book with the use of ai like you've been in the game and you've weathered storms and you've seen trends and all those things where is what's the state of the union when it comes to authors using AI to write a book, to facilitate a book, whatever.
How do you feel about that? Attention span's going crazy because - Yeah. I think the bar has never been lower and it's never been easier to win, personally.
I mean - When I was way back first getting into the game, it was the same song, different tune, where it was, oh, yeah, just pay people in third world countries to ghostwrite crap books and then just pump out a bunch of books. And then that's how you're going to make money.
And yeah, sure, there was some arbitrage there. But then a year later, you look up and none of those people are winning. same thing now i mean you could make this oh yeah just you know get claude to write it and train it in your voice or whatever else and just pump out a ton of books but i think that that's just a race to the bottom and it's making it easier and easier to stand out when you create something that is quality and then yes when you distribute it in a format that is more helpful for people and so I want all the LOMs to reference my books.
I want to be in their car on audio, on Spotify. It's just distribution. And so I think of it kind of like vertical SEO where, you know, we kind of come from a little bit of an SEO background.
That's been a three to $6 million a year channel for us for a long time now. And so most people think. all right, how do we rank on Google?
How do we be in the first three results? And we've done that for a long time. We bought a bunch of sites.
We did roll -ups. We kind of optimized everything for that strategy. But now there's one answer, right?
And it's not three blue links. It's one answer. But that's just on Google.
Then there's AI. Then there's vertical SEO of how do we show up on Amazon? How do we show up on Spotify?
How do we show up, depending on your business, on TripAdvisor? Yo, and it's just like, And those are really easy.
They're way less competitive than the main search engines. All you got to do is write a book. And so that's kind of how I think about it is, all right, for the keywords or the mind share that I want to own, let me go to less competitive places and just outrank.
people through different forms of content. So yes, you've got the podcast, but then I want to show up on Spotify when people are searching for books on that topic. Because readers are leaders, right?
I mean, the smartest, most successful people, they want to go learn a thing. It's like you or I, it's like, oh yeah, cool. Let me just hammer out a few books on this.
And yeah, sure, watch some YouTube videos and whatever else, but I'm going to go deep on long form content in the form of a book. And so then you just... If you're in that space, they read your book and they say, all right, cool, that's my guy.
Let me connect with the team and then boom, let's hire Omar and let's get going. Yeah, I think it's good because your frame many times is less ethereal and is very practical from the standpoint of like, go ahead, use AI to write your book and then just let us know what people think about you. And you could create brand.
sabotage by putting crap into the world, which is a principle that will serve you forever. Quality lasts. That's what I respect about you as well.
I mean, everything you put out is quality and with style. It's like the editing is good. It looks good.
It feels good. It is good. And maybe that's why people would give me the big bucks.
Because it feels good. When it comes to identifying a title that, you know, like I came up with a really cool title that I thought would be amazing.
And then the guy who was kind of like helping me was like, just go check on Amazon. I'm like, shoot, it's taken already. What's your thing on copyright on titles?
Could you use somebody else's title and have a different subtitle? And you can't copyright a title. You can trademark a phrase.
So like the four hour. X. Okay, cool.
Yeah, Tim Ferriss has that trademark. You can't use that. But you can't copyright a title.
And we've published tons of books that accidentally had the same title. And yeah, they come to our coaches three months out having an existential crisis for exactly this reason. And it just doesn't matter.
I would look how many reviews they have. If it's less than 1 ,000, you're gonna beat them.
If it's less than 100, you're definitely gonna beat them. So who cares? It doesn't really matter.
The number one question I usually get asked by people like you is, Omar, how the heck does your videos look and sound so dang crispy? Well, the reality is it's the equipment I use and you'd be surprised how inexpensive it could actually be. So I've compiled all my gear and I've updated the list and I wanna give it to you.
So if you're listening or watching this, just hit the description box below and I'll send you my gear guide for every budget. Now let's get back into the conversation. Okay, that's helpful.
Now I got two titles to run with. Okay, and then another thing that comes to mind is I saw a recent post that you guys released and it was 90 % of authors sell less than 100 books. Yeah.
And I can't think of a more defeated feeling. Yeah. How can a nobody sell their book?
I mean, most self -published books fail. It sucks. And I think it's because the effort matches the perception of the medium.
It's like, oh, yeah, this is self -published, so if you build it, they will come. Let's just put it out there, and then people will find it. I think that's a really horrible strategy.
And by the way, dirty secret of traditional publishing is it's very similar. I mean, if you sell 10 ,000 copies of a book traditionally published, that is a slam dunk. obviously, you know, bigger than that is great.
But the way we think about it is we call it the launch triangle. It's like three core pillars is create a launch team, small group of people who are advocates for the book, customers, friends, you know, family, whatever, get a ton of reviews and then do good promotions, create evergreen promotional assets along with the book.
Those are the three most important things. If you do nothing else, just create a launch team. And that's how.
I did my first book at 19 with no audience, no following, no nothing, but it was just guerrilla marketing and that strategy. And so for us, we say, hey, you don't have to have an audience. That's totally fine.
And for a lot of people, a book is the audience creator. Now, sure, maybe in your case, it's an audience creator and an audience monetizer.
It's like the chicken or the egg. Which comes first, the book or the massive business? Well, a lot of times the book precedes the stuff on the back end and it's kind of your excuse to go on all the podcasts and do all the things because not a lot of podcasts or traditional media are just going to say, hey, randomly come in and talk about your business.
But they will say come in and, oh yeah, you got a book coming out, come on the pod. Yeah. How did you realize that you like, dude, I got a formula to...
help people write a book it seems like from my point of view that's like a a wild thing to be able to systematically build it's a crazy concept but i did it You know, there's a lot of people these days, they just teach all this stuff that they never done. And I just did it.
I did not have a goal to teach it. I just wanted to do it. And not from, I mean, I'm a C -level English student, college dropout, ADHD.
So it's not like I was somebody who just dreamed about writing books one day. I dropped out of school and... I said, hey, there's a bunch, I've been running businesses.
And so I said, hey, all my friends say they want to run a business, but they never do it. Why is that? Well, probably because they don't know these things.
So let me just write it in a little PDF. And I think that made it less intimidating for me that I didn't, it wasn't a book, it was a PDF. And then that book became a, or that PDF became a book.
And then we started putting it out there and then did multiple books. Those books did well. And then it's probably similar to a lot of folks in your community where people start asking about a thing.
And they keep asking about a thing. And then in my case, I was really dumb and I was just ignoring it slash just giving away all my advice for free. It's like, yeah, oh yeah, cool.
You're working on a book. Here's 45 minutes of my time for free. Good luck.
And then just keep doing that. And then finally, I looked up and I said, hold up. This is a business.
But then I had a lot of limiting beliefs around, okay, but I did it successfully, but could I help somebody else do it? I don't know. So let's just start small and get a little cohort of people.
And then I think it was 44 people, 60 % of them wrote and published a book in less than six months. Wow. Which, you know, in the online world, it's like, you got a 5 % success rate.
You're killing it. So then I said, okay, there's something here. And so then we just kind of kept building it.
And then this is where I think it connects to how we're so aligned. And I think where so many people mess up is they are so careful about painting themselves into a box that they never get known for anything. But I think early on, it's like a lot of people say, oh, yeah, but are you sure you want to be the book guy?
You sure? You know, that's kind of like not that cool. It's not that sexy.
It's not the newest, latest, greatest thing. I said, yeah, I'd rather be known for something than known for nothing. Like call me whatever you want as long as you call me.
And if I'm known for something, well, then I can translate that. And I think this is where it was really lucky. I didn't have a master plan for this.
Eventually one day I realized, oh, this is my ticket in to all of the biggest rooms and the most successful people. All the most successful people want to write a book and I've got a really specific problem that I can solve for them. So now that just has opened up so many doors.
Dude, that's brilliant. It's so funny. That's such a crazy concept of like, do you want to be known as the book guy?
Do you want to make $80 million? I don't care what I'm doing. That's where people mistake the whole being known for a thing.
You know what I found about that is, because I help a lot of people who are insecure about wanting to be known about something that comes easy to them. They want to be known for something that they aren't even yet. And what I mean by that is, I want to be known as a motivational, inspirational speaker.
But you're really good at helping female CEOs be productive. But I was very helpful helping people make videos. But because I was who I was and I believed in what I was talking about, I was inspirational to those people watching that content.
And so I never want to allow my insecurity for something that comes easy to me. to not be, to like limit me. And I think that's what people think.
I don't want to be limited. It's like, no, you're not being limited. You're actually allowing yourself to be easily received because now they know how to receive you.
I know it's just like an interesting concept, which I think so much identity work has to happen before you put these words on a book, you know, on paper. You've heard about the four types of competency. Uh, maybe the four levels of competency.
So I think what you're talking about is either conscious competence or unconscious competence. So the kind of the whole premise is conscious competence. These are the things I'm good at that I know that I'm good at unconscious competence.
I'm good at it. I don't even fully realize it. And then there's obviously, you know, conscious incompetence.
I know I'm not good at that. And then, you know, uh, unconscious incompetence.
That's my blind spot. I think that as it relates to people helping people or even books, we see that all the time is there's either that unconscious confidence or that thing that they're just really good at that they're tired of talking about. And they're like, but yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, no, no. I'm over here. I'm the motivationalist.
I want to talk about how to live an epic life. It's like, well, no one cares about that broad, dumb book. That's been written thousands, tens of thousands of times.
Help female CEOs be more productive. That is a dream come true. And it's going to be the most lucrative book that you could ever write.
So I think there's a lot of parallels there of taking the thing that you're already good at and just owning it. That's good. When it comes to these books you helped write or were a part of writing, who had like the most, I guess we can go biggest launch.
And then we can also go just like has made the most money from. Yeah. Yeah.
One of my favorite. One niche massive success stories is this guy named Bill Sirocco. He wrote a book for mobile notaries.
And I mean, that has created seven -figure business on the back end, all kinds of speaking. That book has almost 2 ,000 reviews on Amazon. And when he told me that idea, I'm thinking, what is a mobile notary?
I know I told you to niche down. This is real specific. So I think that's a really fun use case.
But then we've had a bunch of people in the real estate space who, I mean, have raised millions, if not tens of millions of dollars on the fund on the back end of the book or added a million square foot in real estate in their portfolio because people read the book and then they say, oh yeah, this is great. You're obviously the expert.
I don't want to do this. Can I just invest with you? And so kind of sprouting off different arms of their business, I would say that's been really good.
I mean, the one coming up that I'm super excited about that's kind of the dream come true is the Tony Robbins and Dean Graziosi book. And so hopefully that'll be on the wall as the biggest, biggest, most successful book we've ever done. That's cool.
Where are you in regards to, do you put QR codes throughout the book? Do you put it at the end? Do you put like, yeah, I mean.
Yeah. I know this is like a very like foundational question. That's great.
Pictures in books. I think, so there's a stat, 20 % of books that get started get finished. And so what most logical people would think, this is what I thought when I published my first book, I'm going to have this whole great book.
And at the very end, I'm going to say, hey, here's how you can take the next steps. And then everyone's just going to do it. And then we started moving thousands of books and we looked at our opt -ins and there were nothing.
I'm thinking, what is going on here? And that's when it dawned on me that hey, people aren't even getting to the thing.
So that's when we just flipped it. And we said, at the beginning of our books, what do we do? And what we recommend is right up front, we say, here's the audio book for free.
And here's a video summary. Because what's the last thing people want to do? Read the book.
And they probably don't even have time to read the book. So if we can solve that problem for them, they're more likely to consume the content, which means they're more likely to become a customer. So audio book.
That's inherent value. They would pay 20 bucks for it. So then they automatically think, man, I really like this Chandler Bolt guy.
And there's... Kind of like if you've ever done the look inside an Amazon, you can preview. So a lot of times people think that I'm just an idiot and I don't even know.
They could just get the audio book for free without buying the book. Of course I know that. That's how we just funnel hundreds, thousands of leads off of Amazon for people who don't even buy the book.
I love that. That's free leads. But then the video summary, that's our best converting webinar or VSL that covers the main concepts in the book.
So now we're turning more of our readers, not even really readers yet. into paying customers. And then the next page is, hey, if you want our help implementing all this stuff, book a call with the team.
Like here, we can just help you implement all this stuff. And then it gets into the actual book. And so I think that playbook works really well.
That's exactly what I would recommend for you. And then there's, you know, added value calls to action kind of throughout the book, whether you want to do a link or a QR code or whatever else, doesn't much matter. Yeah.
When it comes to like, Cause like something I like helping people with is crafting a masterclass or a signature presentation or introductory event, selling, like crafting a presentation that is intended to move people into taking the next steps. Where do you weigh like giving away tactics in a book versus like shifting beliefs and identity inside of a book?
Yeah. I mean, I think it's a book. The goal of the book is to A, make them believe that they can do it.
That's the most important thing, right? So it's to educate and inspire and to teach, educate, whatever you want to call it. But like, so I want to educate them.
I want to inspire them by helping reframe beliefs, but then also by sharing examples or case studies or stuff like that, which that also helps. If you do it in a non -salesy way, it helps them. realize, oh, I can work with Omar on this thing, because here's case studies of that, versus you saying, work with me, please work with me, please work with me, you should work with me.
I mean, everybody kind of hates that in a book form. And so that's generally how I think about it. I would also say, give away all of your best stuff for free, and people will pay you to tell it to them again.
But then teach strategies, not tactics. And so that was a big mistake I made early on, and it's a big mistake I see a lot of people make. is they teach the click by click.
So my world, it would be like, hey, and here's how you upload it on Amazon. That book's outdated before you even publish it. Same maybe with yours on some of the niche content tactical stuff.
So teach timeless strategies and avoid the tactics that will become dated. Dude, so good. Yeah, man.
I mean, I'm trying to think of like, what am I missing now? Because I feel like you... helped me build the confidence to know that like, this is a no brainer thing that we should be doing in our business.
Um, the, the, how to get it out there with what we're already doing and like, yeah, how this like one thing we can implement in the business is honestly how we could scale without doing more. I mean, that's cause that's usually what you asked me, like, you know, what do you think is next for your business or like how are you going to grow it?
I was like, I'm very slow to add more to the business that's going to require more time because I really do. Like this business has given us the lifestyle, a dream lifestyle where we're enjoying the work. And we also have a lot of time to do things we want to do.
It's beautiful. So that's why every opportunity, I weigh it very carefully. Like I turn down a lot of speaking invites.
I turn a lot of. things that I could be doing because it comes at the mercy of the lifestyle I actually, number one, prayed for and now I'm living in. And I don't want to compromise that.
Yes. But it's just cool to see how powerful this could just take us to the next level. Yeah.
And so I guess maybe the final component of that that I would think about if I was you, because yes, is it going to be a net add in the near term if you choose to do it? Yes. But then kind of what we were talking about earlier, okay, it's 100 hours.
Let's say a couple hundred hours to create an asset that exists for years. And so if there's, it's not a hamster wheel. I think so many people just are chasing hamster wheel revenue.
And so then they wonder why they look up and, oh man, I'm like running on this ad, it's hamster wheel or I'm running on whatever. It's an asset. And so that's the mindset shift.
But then I would. Say, what are the things that you're doing? Which just based on our conversation right before this is like, okay, there's a few challenges a year.
There's ads, there's content. Like what are the existing pillars? And then how do we just integrate this into that to make them more effective, not to be some side quest or new thing.
And that's how I would think about it. So then I would say, okay, with the challenges, how do they work? Are they free?
Are they paid? Is there an upsell? Obviously the main goal is to get them into the coaching program, add a ton of value.
They know that you're real, that you're legit. And then it's obvious, well, hey, if you're serious about this, work with us. Okay, well then how do I integrate the book into that?
Can I use that on the front end to get them to register and show up? Maybe they show up, they get a copy of the book. Can I use that maybe as...
if there's a VIP pass or all access pass or something, okay, well, can I use that to boost that? And so that's kind of how. We're looking under the hood, obviously, with Dean and Tony, but with anybody who has this kind of model, it's like, okay, well, you've already got the hardest parts done.
Now let's just integrate the book in a way that makes it a lot more lucrative. And then maybe is when you launch it is a one -time big pop in addition to all that stuff. But really the ongoing is just integrate it.
So it's kind of maybe the questions that I would be asking or things that I would be thinking about. That's good. You know, one of the books that Tim Ferriss did was like the tools of the Titan, right?
Or where he's kind of every chapter is just a standalone thing. You know, like with, I don't know, we've had 140 podcast episodes and I've been able to interview some of the brightest minds around one idea or one concept. I've thought of.
turning those conversations into chapters and then you know making some sort of like maybe it's like a coffee table book or something like that um yeah i don't know what what's your philosophy or even perspective on creating books like that yeah no offense tim i think it's a dumb format for most people okay now it doesn't mean it won't work it doesn't mean that couldn't be a six -figure you know lever in the business But it certainly wouldn't be the first book that I would recommend because if you just think about it from a reader's perspective, I think a lot of people are attracted to it because it's easy to write.
It's like, oh yeah, that's great. It's super easy. But I have never read one of those books, nor do I get all that excited about those books.
And especially in an age of AI, I would just say, hey, yeah, just tell me what those things were because it's kind of like a nugget per chapter versus what I think about is a good book. drives towards an outcome that the person who reads it is also your ideal customer and your business helps them get that outcome. So does the book.
And so it's just so directly aligned. And I think also as a reader, that's what I am looking for in books that I read. And so I think that is a way better model.
And now, sure, maybe down the road, if you choose to do that, maybe have someone on your team do it. But then it comes back to, for me, it's like, am I going to put my name on it? And feel good about it?
Because if I don't, what's the point? Yeah. It's maybe a short -term cash grab, but I don't love the model.
It doesn't mean it can't work. Yeah, no, that's awesome. I think that's super helpful and bright mind, bro.
How can people connect with you? Yeah. We're building a media company.
We're trying to be like you. We're growing a bunch of stuff on YouTube and I just got on Instagram for the first time about a year ago, which is kind of crazy. But I would say easiest way is selfpublishing .com forward slash the department.
So the D -E -P -T. If people want to write a book, book a call with the team and we'll map out a plan, see how we get out. Yeah, we'll post it in the show notes.
I appreciate you coming on, bro. Maybe we'll be working together. Let's go.
You know, if you want to. Be the reason. I've been pondering this idea for a long time, so I'm excited.
Well, y 'all let us know in the comments whether we should socially shame him to publish a book. Dude, appreciate you. Thanks so much for being on.
Thanks for having me.
The Hook
The bait, then the rug-pull.
The title promises a book that does the selling, and the cold open backs it with numbers: 8,000 authors, $80 million in company revenue, and one five-year-old book still pulling about $7 million a year. What follows is less an interview than a live consult, with the host laying out why he hasn't written his own book and the guest walking him through what it should be and how it should earn.
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Myron Golden tells Omar Eltakrori why the only way to learn how to raise your price is to raise it, and why rich people are exactly who you should be selling to.
A 111-minute livestreamed podcast where a YouTube coach and his co-host lay out one repeatable system, mindset, packaging, then five ways to monetize, instead of algorithm hacks.
Omar Eltakrori sits down with Graham Cochrane to unpack why most businesses feel unnecessarily hard, and how pricing for value instead of hours builds one that doesn't.
Daniel Priestley returns to The Dept. for a third time to argue that personal brand now beats business brand by 20 to 1 — and to lay out the exact content system that makes the algorithm find your people for you.
A 50-minute solo argument that teaching is the greatest business model — and that most experts fail not from lack of knowledge, but from having the wrong objective.
A 38-minute unedited monologue making the case that teaching is the highest-paying skill in business, and that the model built around it generates millions without a sales team.
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