Become a Part-Time Millionaire (Graham Cochrane on Building an Effortless Business)
Omar Eltakrori sits down with Graham Cochrane to unpack why most businesses feel unnecessarily hard, and how pricing for value instead of hours builds one that doesn't.
Posted
2 days ago
Duration
Format
Interview
educational
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8.2K
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Big Idea
The argument in one line.
An effortless business isn't luck, it's engineered: build it around a real constraint and the thing that already comes easy to you, then charge for the value of the transformation instead of the hours it took.
Who This Is For
Read if. Skip if.
READ IF YOU ARE…
A coach, consultant, or service provider who's maxed out on clients but still pricing by the hour or by the project.
Someone sitting on real expertise who assumes it's 'too easy for them' to be worth paying for.
A creator or business owner with more time pressure than time, who wants a business built around a real constraint instead of endless hustle.
Anyone who suspects their own spending or pricing habits are quietly capping how big their business can get.
SKIP IF…
You want a step-by-step marketing funnel or ad-spend tutorial, this is a mindset and pricing conversation, not a tactics breakdown.
You're starting from zero audience or expertise, the framework assumes you already have some visibility or skill to package.
TL;DR
The full version, fast.
Graham Cochrane argues most businesses are unnecessarily hard because their owners copy someone else's hourly rate instead of designing around a real constraint and their own natural strengths. He built his approach out of necessity: new father, unpaid church volunteer, no time, so he had to find the least-effort path to income, which taught him that work expands to fill whatever time you give it (Parkinson's Law). The fix is charging for the value of a transformation, not the hours behind it, and treating coaching or consulting as the most leverageable model because it monetizes knowledge you already have. He ties this to money psychology (minimizer, maintainer, multiplier) and a biblical case for multiplying, not hoarding, whatever is already in your hand.
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A reel of forward-looking quotes frames the episode's thesis before Omar welcomes Graham Cochrane back to the show.
00:58 – 04:20
02 · Why constraint built the philosophy
Graham traces his approach to a season of being a new father and unpaid church volunteer with almost no time or money, which forced him to find the least-effort path to income.
04:20 – 08:00
03 · Parkinson's Law and short deadlines
Work expands to fill the time you give it, illustrated with the high-school-paper-written-the-night-before analogy, and how shorter deadlines create focus.
08:00 – 11:45
04 · The most effortless business is coaching or consulting
Packaging what you already know is the most leverageable business model, and someone else already teaching it doesn't matter because people buy from who they connect with.
11:45 – 17:35
05 · Hourly pricing is brainwashing
The $9,000 nutrition coach example: clients pay for accountability, certainty, and the discipline the price itself forces, not for information they could find for free.
17:35 – 19:00
06 · Sponsor break: Content to Cash Challenge
Omar pauses to pitch his five-day live coaching challenge for creators and service providers.
19:00 – 23:40
07 · Value is a decision, not a fact
The $25,000 workshop, and picking the JW Marriott over the connected regular Marriott, show how your relationship with money caps your business regardless of effort.
23:40 – 28:40
08 · Money isn't finite once you decide it isn't
A $7,500 upper-class flight to London with his daughter, and the decision to become a premium provider after a Rich Litt mastermind that led to a $54,000 client a month later.
28:40 – 31:00
09 · The $75K house decision, and Omar's gear plug
Weighing compound memories against compound pain over a two-year lease difference, followed by a short sponsor break for Omar's camera gear guide.
31:00 – 35:00
10 · The three money personalities
Minimizers protect money out of fear, maintainers spend it as fast as it arrives, and multipliers put every dollar to work; you can't minimize your way to a million dollars a year.
35:00 – 39:40
11 · The parable of the talents: multiply what's in your hand
Matthew 25's parable, the wicked-lazy servant who buried his money out of fear, and Moses' burning-bush excuses, all pointing at 'what's in your hand' as the only question that matters.
39:40 – 45:40
12 · Build on what comes easy, own your stage, sell with one story
The closing sequence: build on the skill that already comes effortlessly, own a platform, serve one specific person, let the calls be the curriculum, and close by retelling one client's transformation.
Atomic Insights
Lines worth screenshotting.
Work expands to fill the time you give it, so a shorter deadline usually produces the same result with less effort.
The most effortless business model is coaching or consulting, because it monetizes knowledge you already have instead of requiring new labor per client.
Someone else already teaching what you know doesn't matter, people buy from whoever they personally connect with, not from whoever has the best information.
Charging by the hour is usually a copied number from how other people in your field happen to charge, not a calculation of your actual value.
A $9,000 coaching fee isn't paid for information, it's paid for accountability, certainty, and the discipline the price itself forces you to bring.
The client's willingness to pay a high price is itself part of the mechanism that produces the result, because it manufactures commitment.
Choosing the nicer hotel room over the cheaper one across the street is a decision about how you view money, not a decision about the room.
How you personally relate to money puts an invisible ceiling on your business, regardless of how hard you work or how good your offer is.
Treating money as infinite instead of scarce turns a big purchase into a creative challenge to earn it back, instead of a source of guilt.
Becoming a premium provider is a decision, not a credential, most people who charge more aren't more experienced, they just stopped being afraid to ask.
There are three money personalities: minimizers protect money out of fear, maintainers spend it as fast as it comes in, multipliers put every dollar to work.
You can't minimize your way to a million dollars a year, playing only defense in business means you never score, even if you never lose.
In the parable of the talents, the servant who was punished wasn't the one who lost money, it was the one who did nothing with it out of fear.
The question 'what's in your hand' matters more than 'what do I have that's impressive', the smallest existing skill is a valid starting point.
The easiest business to build is usually the one you're too close to see, whatever comes effortlessly to you looks unremarkable from the inside.
Telling one client's transformation story removes the sales pitch entirely, because prospects insert themselves into someone else's outcome.
Takeaway
Effortless business is a decision, not a lucky break.
WHAT TO LEARN
The businesses that feel effortless were engineered that way on purpose: built around a real constraint, priced on the value of the outcome instead of the hours behind it, and pointed at the one thing that already comes easy to the person running it.
02Why constraint built the philosophy
A business built during genuine time and money constraints gets forced to find the least-effort path to income, a discipline you can choose deliberately even without the constraint.
The instinct that a packed unpaid schedule should leave no room for a business is exactly what forces the model to become efficient instead of failing.
03Parkinson's Law and short deadlines
Work reliably expands to fill whatever time you allow it, so shortening your own deadlines is a lever for less effort, not lower quality.
The real skill isn't working faster, it's noticing the minimum amount of activity that still produces the same result, then cutting the rest.
04The most effortless business is coaching or consulting
Packaging existing knowledge into coaching or consulting scales without requiring new labor for every additional client.
Someone else already teaching the same subject isn't a real obstacle, buyers choose based on connection with the teacher, not on who technically knows the most.
05Hourly pricing is brainwashing
An hourly rate is usually just a copied number from how everyone else around you happens to charge, not a calculation of the value actually delivered.
A high price can itself be the mechanism that produces the result, because it manufactures the client's commitment and discipline.
Clients are often paying for certainty and accountability, not for information they could technically find for free.
07Value is a decision, not a fact
Choosing a nicer hotel room, venue, or flight over a cheaper equivalent is really a decision about how you relate to money, not a decision about the room.
How you personally view and interact with money puts an invisible ceiling on your business, independent of how hard you work or how good the offer is.
08Money isn't finite once you decide it isn't
Treating money as infinite rather than scarce turns a big purchase into a creative challenge to earn it back, instead of a source of guilt.
Deciding to become a premium provider is a decision, not a credential, most high-ticket sellers aren't more experienced, they just stopped being afraid to ask for the number.
09The $75K house decision
Comparing 'compound benefit' against 'compound pain' over years, not the sticker price today, reframes what a bigger recurring cost is actually buying.
10The three money personalities
Minimizers protect money out of fear and get capped because playing only defense never scores; maintainers spend as fast as it comes in and stay capped at their current lifestyle; multipliers give every dollar a job.
A large sum of static, unused money is a red flag for a multiplier mindset, not a source of comfort, since idle money represents a missed opportunity to grow it.
11The parable of the talents
In the parable of the talents, the servant who was punished wasn't the one who lost money, it was the one who did nothing with it out of fear.
The size of what you're given only matters relative to your own ability to grow it, someone with a smaller opportunity is being tested on whether they multiply it at all.
The question 'what's in your hand' matters more than 'what do I have that's impressive', the smallest existing skill is a valid starting point, not a disqualifier.
12Build on what comes easy, own your stage, sell with one story
The business worth building is usually the one that comes easiest to you, because effortless output for you is still valuable output for someone with less experience.
Owning a consistent platform lets you build trust with one specific person before you ever try to sell them anything.
The simplest sales process is a single client transformation story told repeatedly, because prospects insert themselves into someone else's outcome instead of feeling pitched to.
Glossary
Terms worth knowing.
Parkinson's Law
The idea that work expands to fill the amount of time allotted to it, so a shorter deadline typically produces the same output with less wasted effort.
Value-based pricing
Setting a price based on the transformation or outcome a client receives, rather than on the hours or materials that went into producing it.
A framework describing three default relationships to money: protecting it out of fear, spending it as fast as it arrives, or putting it to work to create more.
Parable of the talents
A story in Matthew 25 where a master gives three servants different sums of money to manage while he's away, and rewards the two who invested it over the one who buried it out of fear.
Pre-indoctrination
Using content to build trust and familiarity with an audience before ever making a sales offer, so the pitch feels like a natural next step rather than a cold ask.
“I didn't have the luxury of having lots of time, so I had to find ways to figure out what really would make me money with the least amount of effort put in.”
relatable origin-story constraint, sets up the whole episode→ IG reel cold open↗ Tweet quote
15:30
“The fee is not for them, the fee is for me, because the moment I paid $9,000, I'm going to be super disciplined.”
counterintuitive pricing psychology in one line→ TikTok hook↗ Tweet quote
26:50
“I landed my first $54,000 client just because I asked for it.”
tight punchline with a specific number→ TikTok hook↗ Tweet quote
36:00
“You can't minimize your way to a million dollars a year, it's like playing defense for every moment of the football game and you're never going to score a touchdown.”
sports metaphor makes an abstract money concept visceral→ newsletter pull-quote↗ Tweet quote
“Build a downhill business. Why build a business if you feel like you have to push everything uphill?”
the episode's central metaphor in one sentence→ TikTok hook↗ Tweet quote
Topic Map
Where the conversation goes.
00:58 – 08:00denseOrigin story and constraint-driven business
08:00 – 23:40denseEffortless business models and pricing psychology
23:40 – 31:00denseMoney mindset and becoming a premium provider
31:00 – 39:40denseMoney personalities and the parable of the talents
39:40 – 45:40steadyBuilding the business: platform, content, and sales
The Script
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metaphorstory
The biggest misconception people have about business is that it has to be hard. Where did you unlock the philosophy or the belief that business should be effortless and you can build a business that is enjoyable? Build a downhill business.
Why build a business if you feel like you have to push everything uphill? What is the easiest business for you to build? That's the one to get into.
So excited to have back on the show, Graham Cogren. Let's go. Let's go.
You've cracked the code on building a business that not only suits your desired lifestyle, sustains it, maintains it, and even elevates it. You have to have one singular person in mind. And that will simplify everything in your business.
Don't make a business for a bunch of people or even a group of people. The one person you want to serve. and just go help some people.
Don't make it harder than it has to be. What is the most successful approach? Is it the type of business you choose to build?
Is it the type of person you want to become? Where do you wrestle that tension? If you could start a business from scratch, what's the most effortless type of business?
I would argue one of the most effortless types of businesses is a...
Where did you unlock the philosophy or the belief that business should be effortless and you can build a business that is enjoyable? Yeah, I mean, I thank God for my story because it was kind of just circumstances, right? Like, I feel like the way I learned to do business was in a season of being a new husband, new -ish, new father, church planting.
So you know that world of doing ministry, doing business. i had very little time so i'm like the volunteer worship leader at my church while we're starting a church so i'm also an elder and a deacon at age 26 and i'm also the men's bible study leader and uh writing songs and set up tear down church at a university campus and so i probably was doing 20 hours a week volunteer work wow um raising our first baby daughter just moved here to tampa and it was like i had very little time but I was unemployed.
So that was like the circumstances I had with which to start a business. So I didn't have the luxury of having lots of time. So I had to find ways to figure out what really would make me money with the least amount of effort put in.
Not because I wanted to be lazy because I just didn't have a whole lot of time. So that constraint from day one, I think just framed my brain. Which I believe is a decision to believe that it has to serve that constraint.
Yes. Because. There are people listening or watching that maybe even have a full -time job or maybe right now that feels like the business is more than full -time.
They're working 60 hours a week and there's like, there's no way. You know, I think just in my personal journey in business, I'm so glad I found golf. So golf is a five -hour activity and I must find a way.
there has to be a way it's good man you know so i mean i know it's not as like deep in spirit because i i also also is fun serving at a church too like you know um and it's just it's powerful like choosing the fact that the constraint is the reason why it can work well yeah and like we were just at an event and i was talking with macy and she was saying something to my wife about how before she had kids she what used to take her a whole day to do And her business takes her three hours now.
Because she had to find a way to do it during nap time. And she was like, oh, I'm still getting the same amount done. And that's Parkinson's law, right?
Which is that work expands to fill the amount of time you give it to completion. Which is a crazy thought. Because we hear that and go, I don't know, maybe.
But that's not how we operate. We're like, things take the amount of time that they do. Can I prove why everyone who's listening or watching submits to this law?
Oh yeah, please. When we were in high school. day one of the school we got the course syllabus or the semester syllabus and there was a paper that was due at the end of the semester but you wrote the paper the night before it was due so we gave ourselves a night before to write it even though it took us six months I think that's a funny concept but you gotta use it to your advantage you do and I think it's a at a freeing unlock for people.
It's a little bit of work at first because you're doing the things you do the way you do for a reason. It doesn't mean it's the most efficient way. It doesn't mean you have to do it more efficiently.
But if you're like, man, I don't have enough time or I would love to play golf or I would love to have time to take my spouse out on a date or like Shay and I, we take Fridays off together. We call it date day. It's like, if I want to have a date day, how could I do that?
Well, it's not like we're magically faster or better. It's just. I've forced myself to ask, okay, well, what really matters in the business?
And so it just creates focus, right? Short deadlines create focus. And then you learn a lot about, oh, like when I post this amount of times and I drop the posting a little bit, it's the same output.
So then I realized I don't need as much content to get the same output. You just kind of like feeling out what's the minimal viable dose to still get the results you need. Yeah.
So what is like the most successful approach? to business from like the kind of business? Cause I understand there's service.
So there's some people that are service -based you, I mean, you wash cars or you, you know, make coffee or you sell homes. Like how does, is it the type of business you choose to build? Is it the type of person you want to become?
Like, where do you wrestle that tension? Yeah. So there's different choices, right?
Like if you, if you could start a business from scratch, you're like, what's the most effortless type of business? I would argue one of the most effortless types of businesses is a consultant or a coach where you are taking your knowledge and your experience and monetizing it in a way that helps a lot of people. And we underestimate how valuable what we know is to other people.
Or even like, well, there's already somebody that does what I do and teaches what I do. It doesn't matter. They want to learn it from you.
There's a reason people want to learn business and video and content from you. when you talk, they get it or you inspire them or there's something about it. And there's people that love learning business from Alex Ramosi who would never want to learn it from me.
And there's people that like learning business from me that would never want to learn it from Alex because they just don't connect. So I think coaching and consulting around what you do is the most effortless because you can command high fees because you can create powerful transformation without having to do work for people.
It's just like creating unlocks, removing... roadblocks for people helping them get shortcuts because you've been up the mountain you know the fastest way to get them up the mountain and skip all the pain um but if you're in a bit let's say you're in a service -based business and you're like well i don't want to do that or i can't do that or whatever you also can just play with the dials that you have like you're probably under charging If you have 10 clients and you're maxed out of 10 clients, you probably could just charge a lot more.
And then that begs a lot of weird insecurities and questions of like, well, how do I charge more? How do you become more valuable? Do I need to become anything or do I just need to put more zeros at the end of my price?
And so there's different skills to learn there or mindsets, but you probably can charge more if you can do more one -to -many, whether it's one -to -many selling or one -to -many service. Or for some people, it's just... it is delegation it is like this turning yourself more into the owner ceo and less of the the operator of the business which involves different skill sets yeah but there are always ways out where you can have a more effortless business and it still be the type of business you want you have to get a little more creative that's good yeah so when it comes to let's talk to those people that feel like they have something to offer the world they know that somebody would pay for this but usually when we start out building a business around our brain which is a powerful thing.
Like literally a Zoom link and your availability. Is the coolest thing ever, bro. But we come from, we're probably still going to think, you know, $500 an hour, $1 ,000 an hour.
Like how does one get to a 10K, you know, consulting client or even a 100K consulting client? Oh yeah. So I didn't get this for the longest time.
So the fact that we even think about how much per hour should it be just shows that we've been brainwashed, right? And that makes you go, wait a second, what do you mean? Isn't that how people charge?
Yeah, that's how a lot of people charge, but it's not a good way to charge. It's just the way they heard someone else charge or like everything is per hour or per month. So where do those prices come from?
So the biggest thing that helped me was realizing, wait a second, I need to stop thinking about what I charge per hour relative to other people. Do I feel like I'm more experienced than him or less experienced than him or whatever? And instead think about what is the value of the outcome I create for my potential clients?
i just for example hired a nutrition coach and the nutrition coach basically i want to get shredded right so like i feel like i'm in good shape i work out i eat well but i was like i'm looking at these photos i'm like i want to be like sub 10 body fat these guys look shredded um and that's meaningful to me yeah um and i got on a sales call with them and i love getting on other people's sales calls because now because i do this for a living i want to know what their offer is how they package it price it But their offer functionally was a $9 ,000 coaching program for the year.
And functionally, they're giving me macros I have to track in MyFitnessPal. There's workouts they want me to do, a certain amount of steps or cardio. But then there's a coach.
There's accountability. So every week, I'm uploading photos. He's tracking every piece of food I put in my mouth.
And so he's taking me through this process of rebooting my metabolism. Anyway, it's this whole thing. And it's like, In a way, people are like, wow, you pay $9 ,000 for information like that?
You could ask Claude to tell you what kind of... And I'm like, no, I'm paying for a couple things. I'm paying for accountability.
I'm paying for the best. If I just do what he says, I'll get there faster instead of me fumbling through it. Because I've tried stuff on my own.
I get okay results. I'm paying for certainty because... this is all they do.
This is what they're world class at. So I see the results they're getting for clients. So I know if I just get in that room, I'm going to learn.
But then also the fee is for me. Like as the client, the fee is not for them. The fee is for me because the moment I paid $9 ,000, I'm like, all right, I'm going to be super, I'm going to do everything he says.
I'm going to be super disciplined. I automatically got the benefit. I automatically leveled up my game of my commitment went way high.
So I know I'm going to get results. And so all that to say, If they charged $500 or $1 ,000, maybe more people would buy, maybe.
They wouldn't get great results because there's no real incentive to. But also, I view $9 ,000 as a steal because I feel like I'm getting easily $90 ,000 if you had to quantify worth of value to me because I don't know how you put a price on taking your shirt off at the pool and people just going, dang. Now, that's super vain.
That's a vain even. Whatever. But I want to use that example because oftentimes we think about, well, it's like how much money can you make or save?
And I'm not into money making or saving space. Bro, if you can help people live their dream or help people have confidence, like I'm basically paying $9 ,000 for confidence. Can you put a price on confidence?
So that's like from a user's perspective, that's what I'm buying. So if that helps somebody think about what you're selling is you know what you help them with. Maybe help people lose weight or help people in their marriages or help people organize their homes.
help their baby sleep through the night great that's what you do but you have to think about what is the true value of that to somebody else in terms of what would be the cost of alternatives to get that how long would it take them to get that on their own hey department fam pausing the podcast to talk about this life -changing sponsorship it's me i'm sponsoring the podcast and the sponsor of this podcast is the content to cash challenge which is a five -day live coaching experience i put on for creators entrepreneurs coaches consultants and service providers if you feel like you're stuck in business or maybe there's more to business and to revenue i'm telling you that you don't have an offer problem you don't have an industry problem and you probably don't even have a sales problem what you have is an awareness problem and this is why i have the content to cash challenge because i believe transformation happens on a two -way street and how do you know if you're the right person
for the content to cash challenge or you're in the right season, you're listening to this podcast. This is for you, this is your moment. So to take the challenge or jump on the wait list, scan the QR code on the screen or check out the link down in the description below.
Let's get back into the conversation. And this sounds self -serving, but it isn't. But you are talking about the importance of, like you're not gonna be able to charge more than what you've ever invested in either.
So like if you think hourly, it's because you've maybe never stretched yourself in a way to buy value -based. It's cost -based.
I'm here in your hometown, Tampa. We came here and we paid $25 ,000 for a two -day workshop. I would tell you that the car ride to the studio before day one started, I got my investment back.
Because I put myself in the context to pay attention at a level. And I think there's so much of that, like, you know, the transformation is in the transaction. And if you are afraid to charge more, but you know people do, or you know you should or you could, and something else is missing, it's because your inability to see value.
And so you hopped on a call, but on that call, they needed that call to happen so that you can really see the case. Because I know I have people in my world, bro, that do everything you just said. my fitness pal macros yeah tracking food and they i think they charged 250 bucks for six weeks dude don't laugh dude i'm sorry no no no you could edit that out no i'd never laugh no no no but but the only reason they did that is because they but they believe yeah that that that's all it's worth yes because they're because they're like yeah my i could text you my fitness pal i could You could just text me photos.
It's easy, yeah. But it's just like that. But like what happens to a person's life when they get their health in order?
Yeah. And then the question is how many of the people, maybe you do sell more, but how many of the people are actually doing the work? Like the fact, were you assigned a coach?
Yeah. Okay, so not even the head guy was your coach. Yeah, I never even met that guy.
So you have like two X force. You have his top of you. Then you have the assigned coach that's trained on the frameworks.
and to make sure you're doing what you gotta do so like there is even you're getting better service yes you know i don't know i just i took a picture at the pool that last night i was just swimming by myself yeah um and we're at the jw marriott yes and then right across the street is the the marriott yeah and believing you're worth going one property over just going across it but omar it's just across the street it's the same you're still gonna get a bed you're still gonna get access yeah it's just different look at this place i feel Like a boss.
Bro. I'm so glad you said that. Art's behind the scenes on our stories is like, oh, okay.
Yeah. So, I don't know. I had to go, yeah.
I mean, there's so many money stories there that like, this is why how your view and relationship with money affects your business. Go there.
Most people don't think about it because they think, well, I'm going to work hard. I have a good business. I want to grow in your money.
But you are going to be capped by the way you interact with and view money. And there's no shame in that because we all are a product of our story, our childhood, our schema, as they call it, right? But the way you view money will affect your business.
So if you are afraid to splurge on a nicer hotel room, because I think about this all the time, because I'll either do an event. I'm doing an event here in November. they're connected, the Marriott and the JW.
And so like, yeah, we booked you a conference room you can use for your event in the Tampa Marriott. I'm like, no, just, I want to be in the JW. And it's like a little bit more.
And they're like, well, this one's available. I'm like, yeah, but I don't want my people going. I'm a JW kind of guy.
And it's like, is it going to make my event better empirically? I don't know, but this is a much more beautiful place. And then people who come in feel like it's more beautiful.
And I just feel more proud that my event's going to be here versus just at the regular Marriott. So good. That affects the way I think about business because it makes you feel like, oh, money isn't finite.
When you realize that when you start to spend more on things that matter to you, like I don't golf, so I don't spend money on golf, but like I travel. And so I'll spend money on nicer flights, nicer hotels, nicer restaurants, because those things matter to me. When you spend more money on those things, it's not wasteful if you believe that it's valuable to you and you would get benefit out of it.
But also if you believe money is infinite. And so when I spend money, like I took my daughter, to London, this is an easy example, took her to London, because she was really bored this summer, and my oldest daughter had all these cool trips with my wife, and my youngest daughter, who's 14, I looked at her summer, I was like, you're gonna be super bored this summer.
I was like, do you wanna just go somewhere, you and me, daddy -daughter trip, where do you wanna go? Anywhere, and you already know, she goes, let's go to London. Dang.
I was like, okay, let's go to London. So if I'm gonna fly to London with my daughter, I was like, I don't wanna sit in a regular seat and try to sleep when your neck's crickety, I mean, I've done that a lot. How long is that flight, too?
It's nine, eight, nine hours, 10 hours on the way back. And by the way, I say no thank you, not because I'm anything, but we've all sat on a long flight and we looked up and like, shoot, that was worth it. They have beds up there?
It was worth it. They're getting champagne up there? So I was like, Vera, we're gonna book, Virgin Atlantic has a direct flight to Tampa to London.
We're gonna book upper class, which is their Delta One lay flat bed. And she was like, really? Yeah, so these are $7 ,500 flights each.
And it was an amazing experience. But what's amazing is when I spend that on that flight, not only did she have a great time and it was super fun, I'm thinking, okay, how do I create another $15 ,000 to pay this back? And then my brain just starts to get creative because I don't think of money as finite.
I used to because that's how I grew up. Make sure you budget, make sure you don't spend too much. Money doesn't grow on trees.
But you can see how what you think about money and how you interact with it in your own personal life and whatever you value. Some people don't value flights. I do.
That does open up something in your brain when you go to create offers, serve people at high level, how you view yourself. And so it's just interesting how all these things are connected. And so is it really about what's best practice?
What do people charge? No, no, you always start with what is the value of the transformation I bring? And also what kind of game do I wanna play?
Do I wanna be a premium provider in my industry? And what's crazy about that is that's just a decision. Like I wasn't a premium provider in my industry for a long time.
And then one day I just decided to become one. I remember in a coaching experience with Rich Litt, and I don't know if you're familiar with Rich. Dude, I bought his book based on your posting.
Oh, okay. 100K client. Oh yeah, that's his new one.
So he was, I was in a... half of a year mastermind with him. And everybody in that room was playing small.
I could just tell they were so afraid to charge $3 ,000, $5 ,000 for a year -long coaching package. And he said something about, wouldn't it be crazy if you could have a $50 ,000 client? And the moment he said that, I was like, man, I want a $50 ,000 client.
And I just decided one day, I was like, you know what, I'm tired of, I kind of saw the room, and I'm not throwing shade on anybody in the room, but I was like, but that was me. I was like, this fear of charging more, and I was like, I don't, all of them are eating each other alive in their sadness and imposter syndrome, and I was like, for some reason, it clicked to me, I was like, I need to be different.
And I realized it was just a decision. So I remember, I literally was like, I'm gonna go create a $50 ,000 client. And it was a month later.
I landed my first $54 ,000 client just because I asked for it. And I didn't even think he was going to pay for it. But it's funny how that was like a decision of who do I want to be?
And other people decide to go premium. And it's not that they're better or more experienced. It's that they have the courage to step into this and think about things differently than most people.
So good. Yeah, dude, me and my wife were thinking about which house. We're moving out of our house to get another house for tax stuff.
But the decision was a conservative play and a little bit of like a splurge. It's like three grand more a month for the nicer home. And it's like, man, we don't need it.
This is good enough. And I was honestly was just processing it. And the number in the two -year lease difference was $75 ,000.
And the question was, which house will create the best memories? And it was an obvious, it was obvious. Like the one that's the $3 ,000 more a year, 75K in two years will create more memories because it's such an entertainer's house.
Like I'm just thinking now Christmas and then just a regular weekend. Hey, everybody just come over. Small group Bible studies.
Like it's going to be amazing. And the question is, how can I get the 75? Well, for me, that's just a couple of clients.
Yeah. Done. Yeah.
What are we talking about, babe? And then and then I go down the path of like if we were to go the compromise route or like the, you know, comfortable route. How many who would we become?
Are we going to be proud every time we walk in? Like, what is that compound? So now we're talking about compound pain, not just compound benefit.
But this all this all what we're talking about is becoming. a value -based buyer if you want to have an effortless business. Because when you see the world through the lens of value, you even create equations in your mind on how you're going to extract the value.
Like I said, at this workshop, how much return on your investment from the 25K do you believe you got? Oh, gosh. A few million?
A few million. Yeah. But people are like, wait, what?
Yeah. The number one question I usually get asked by people like you is Omar, how the heck does your videos look and sound so dang crispy? Well, the reality is it's the equipment I use and you'd be surprised how inexpensive it could actually be.
So I've compiled all my gear and I've updated the list and I want to give it to you. So if you're listening or watching this, just hit the description box below and I'll send you my gear guide for every budget. Now let's get back into the conversation.
That's pricing. You talked about money. Can you talk about your money framework that you share on?
Yeah, so people have, if I lump it together, people have one of three distinct money personalities. And you can think about which one resonates with you in terms of where you are right now. But based off of your childhood, your experience with money, whatever's happened in your life, you're either a minimizer.
And the minimizer view, the primary purpose of money is for protection. So minimizers tend to save money. They tend to like load up on insurance.
They don't do anything risky. They're very risk averse because they want to make sure they got cash and they want their war chest full. And again, protection is not a bad thing.
And having savings is a really smart thing. You know, the proverb says in the house of the wise are choice oils.
and treasure and food and it's like yeah you save if you're wise you've got some savings but their propensity and their primary view of money is i gotta keep keep it so i'm protected and i'm safe and that would make sense if they had a traumatic financial experience in the back like if they grew up poor if they grew up where their parents were struggling with money or fighting about money there was never enough or they're afraid of losing their house at any moment like as a kid that would make you very unsafe sure so you might be a minimizer or maybe you lost a house in the great financial collapse or like i have friends like that they're like they were very different before that, but then they lost their home and they're just like, oh, I just got to hold on.
But the problem with being a minimizer is that you can't minimize your way to a million dollars a year. You can't minimize your way to success. It's like playing defense for every moment of the football game and you're never going to score a touchdown.
So maybe you won't allow very many points, but you'll never score any. And so you can't win. So there's the minimizers and there's the maintainers.
And the maintainers view the primary purpose of money is for purchasing. to them, money comes in so it can go out. And they have no problem spending.
And in a way, what we were talking about, like travel or the house, you could almost look at someone like us and think, oh, I think they're maintainers because they have no problem spending money. But really, maintainers, because all they view money for is spending, when it comes in, it goes right back out. They're not saving or investing or thinking.
They're just like, I like my lifestyle. I want to keep it the way it is. which isn't a bad thing if you like your life, just know that you are capped.
Like that's kind of it. And so they're not gonna be able to reach the goals that a lot of people who are watching the show, listen to this, want to reach, right? So that you have the minimizers, the maintainers, and then you have the multipliers.
And the multipliers view the primary purpose of money is for production. Like literally money exists to create more. create more money, create more experiences, create more wealth, create more opportunity.
They want to put money to work and it literally multiply. Like it would kill a multiplier to see $1 ,000 in a bank account sitting there. Because you would look at that instead of saying, oh, I have $1 ,000 saved.
Or that's what a minimizer would say, I feel safe. Or a maintainer would say, oh, that's $1 ,000 I could go spend at Ocean Prime and get a nice steak. A multiplier, that $1 ,000 could turn into $100 ,000 if I just put it in the right investment.
It kills me to see it just sitting there, not going to work. And so often people think that when the money's gone, it's gone. But multipliers know when the money's gone, it's just gone to work.
And that's how they view every dollar is give it a job. That's how the Elon Musks of the world and the Jeff Bezos of the world and the Warren Buffetts of the world, people say, well, they don't need more money. Yeah, it's not about need.
They just can't. they can't look at money or companies and just let them stay the same. They're like, let's just grow this thing.
And now if you're a person of faith, can I take it another level? Go to another level. So I think another way to describe multiplication is stewardship.
Yep. So if I read the Bible and I'm trying to understand what does God think about money? Think about resources.
All I can see is he just wants you to multiply things. He doesn't want you to minimize or maintain. He actually wants you to multiply.
And we know this for a couple of reasons. I'll just pull out two that strike me. One is in Matthew 25, the parable of the talents.
Jesus tells a story about a master and these three servants and he gives them these large sums of money. Two talents to one, five talents to another, one talent to another. And they say a talent is worth a few years wages.
I don't really know the exact amount, but we're talking about hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not millions. And he says, interesting.
He says, do business until I return, which that in of itself should tell you something about what the master cares about is like, I'm giving you resources. I'm giving you abilities, time, opportunities, money. That's actually my observation on that text is he gave according to their ability.
Yes. So he knew their ability. Like the question is, how was your ability?
If you even got, if you were handed the. are you someone who can two exit or five exit or 10 exit? Anyway, it's just very, cause I used to think it was like, Oh, whatever cards you were dealt is what I thought.
I'm just a one talent guy. No, you're a one talent ability guy. Yes.
So increase your ability. Oh, that's good. That's good.
And so in that story, his reaction, a, he wants him to go do business, which is very interesting. It tells you the heart of the father. But then when they, when he comes back and he looks at the three servants, the first two, they both doubled whatever they were given.
And he gives them the same combination, like well done, good and faithful servant. This is crazy. Because you've been so faithful with such a little amount of money, he called like the five talents, which is possibly a million dollars, a little amount.
Gee. I will entrust you with more. So that's crazy.
Whatever you think is big, God calls little. Dude, I just got something too right now.
Well done, good and faithful servant.
It is in a servant. identity like you're not bad for doubling for increasing resource and money or evil or whatever it's like you got a well done good and faithful servant the the identity of a servant is a multiplier yes like but which which just goes it's contradictory to what people think that like I don't know.
You know what I'm saying? You got to be special. You got to be extra gifted.
No, you just got to be a servant. You just got to be a servant. So good.
Anyway, and another observation of this is you've been faithful with the little. Now I'll make you ruler over much. Yeah.
Something my pastor said, Jabin Chavez, he says he found and I found and you've probably found that if you are faithful with the little. God will make you ruler over much longer than you had to be faithful with the little. Oh, that's good.
Yes. It's crazy. Which is encouraging if you feel like you're in a frustrating, hard season and those seasons feel very long.
I mean, we were broke for 18 months on food stamps and those 18 months felt like 18 years, right? But now they feel so far away and I can't even imagine like how. I couldn't have even imagined where I am today, but this period of prosperity or whatever word you want to use has felt so long.
So that's good, man. I love that. Yeah, so the master is saying, if you look at what is, because you're trying to read between the lines, what is Jesus trying to say he values?
And the father values people who go to do business with what they're given, and they multiply it. And then we know that the opposite happened with the third servant who just buried it. And this is interesting too.
He says, I was afraid knowing you were, a harsh slave. So fear kept him just holding on to what he had.
Essentially, the fear drove that decision. It's crazy. So that's interesting.
But he just saved it. And he held on to it. He maintained it.
He minimized. He saved. It was protected.
And the master calls him wicked and lazy. Yikes. So that's crazy.
So I look at that and you can tell from what Jesus is saying is, hey, and in the context of Matthew 25, it's a lot of like, not just end times, but like, when I come back, when the father holds his judgment, like he's gonna hold you accountable for what you did with your life. But you get a lot of clarity and applications of whatever you're given, you're supposed to go multiply, not sit on it, not think linearly, like eventually I'll get to it, like go now and multiply.
And then I love how our mutual friend and mentor Myron Golden has always pointed out that the first command in scripture was be fruitful and multiply. Like the first thing he ever said to a human. If we want to know what God wants us to be doing, what is the first thing he ever said to anybody?
Be fruitful. Is there fruit in your life? You might think you're a great person, but you'll know them by their fruits.
Is there fruit? And then are you multiplying, filling the earth? For whatever reason, God cares about expansion, multiplication.
So if God had a money personality, he'd be a multiplier. Not because he needs it. He owns it.
the cattle on a thousand hills, but because that is his nature is to expand, multiply, make more than enough. That's why Jesus, when he feeds the 5 ,000, he doesn't just make enough for everyone to eat, which would have been a miracle. He proves how ridiculous he is of like, I'm going to have 12 baskets full left over, like because he wants to show his character and what he values is multiplication and way more than enough.
So we're called to do the same. So good. Can you, I'm just being wicked, lazy servant advocate.
Oh yeah. And that is. thinking I don't have anything to multiply.
Oh, dude. So that is like the biggest slap in the face to the Lord. To tell God I have nothing is to say you haven't given me anything, God.
Right? It's like, wait a second. Wait a second.
And I'm being harsh, but one of the most revered people in scripture and in history is Moses, and he said the same thing. When literally the burning bush moment, God gives him this massive opportunity to set his people free and be this hero and have this big moment in history and be remembered forever.
And Moses tries to talk himself out of it multiple times. Exodus chapter 3 and 4 is just excuse after excuse. I'm not good enough.
I'm not good with words. I can't do this. I'm not ready.
No one's going to believe me. And it's all this slap in the face of the Lord. You don't know what you're talking about.
You haven't given me enough qualities to be able to do this. And God asks, what's in your hand? What's in your hand?
Which is the only question that matters. If you're starting a business or you feel stuck or you got nothing, only question that matters is what is in your hand. That's all God asks is just like, because he can take the little fish and the little bread.
It doesn't have to be great, but he does want you to bring what you do have to him and say, will you help me multiply this? When I started my business, I didn't want to start a business. I didn't know what I was doing.
I wish your channel existed. I would have watched this stuff and learned. I was just like, I don't know what to do.
And I felt God kind of nudge me and say, well, what do you have? What's in your hand? I was like, well, I know about audio and music recording.
I could teach that to somebody. That's it. And that's all I started with.
You know, and 17 years later, like it's changed my life. It's crazy. But you have to start with what you do have and be willing to multiply.
And then you're really partnering with a God because you can't multiply it fully on your own. I mean, you can try, but when he puts his hand on it, boom. But you have to.
believe that multiplication is good and that what you have is enough. Dude, so good. I mean, I think about the thing in my hand was a camera.
Yeah. It's like the camera in my hand did everything what I'm experiencing. Isn't that crazy?
It's crazy. I know based on consulting and coaching and conversations I have with people who are in the beginning stages of starting a business. It's like they're insecure because they believe what's in their hand is insignificant.
And it's like, I don't want to be known as the camera guy. I don't want to be known as the audio guy. I don't want to be known as the barista.
But unfortunately, if it comes easy to you. people will pay for it. And I would even say that's the thing you should go with because it comes easy.
So it's effortless. Why build a business starting out hard? I have a friend who does real estate and he does really well selling homes.
And I remember talking to him about having a program. I'm like, dude, you're successful. Help other real estate, young real estate guns, not guns, people.
And he's made millions in real estate. I'm like, can you help somebody get to their first six figures? oh my god yeah but but i want to i want to do this development play where i'm like getting it's just like this whole and i asked him this question i was like if you had zero time to prepare for a zoom call so good would you have to which one would you have to prepare for oh man i would have to like sit down and really think through what's good i like that frame the other one show up to the call somebody ask a question we're gonna go an hour yeah And you're going to change that person's life because you just gave them all that speed.
And it coming that easy for you was the point. So like build it on the thing that doesn't require the most from you. Now, do you have to grow in the skill of sales?
Do you have to grow in the skill of communication? Sure. But when it comes to the essence of something you're good at, and I think this is like just a great.
Maybe this conversation encouraged you, if you're listening or watching, to just be okay with what you're good at. Be grateful for what you're good at. Well, look at it not as a random thing, but whether you believe in God or not, just suspend belief and say, what if I was strategically and intentionally designed the way I am?
And what if I could put more energy into leveraging who I am versus wishing I were somebody else? I mean, Rory Vaden says it. you are most powerfully positioned to serve the person you once were.
You could get on a Zoom call and imagine yourself five, 10 years ago before you had that transformation you have now, and you could just speak to their pain and empathy. You could tell them exactly what to do first, second, and third, and you could share all the payoffs when they get to the end, and people would be like, wow, you read my mind.
How'd you know that? Because I used to be you. Bang.
That's the easiest thing. And you pair that with good old Seth Godin, the goat. He says, build a downhill business.
My take on that is the effortless business. Why build a business if you feel you have to push everything uphill? What is the easiest business for you to build?
That's the one to get into. If you like it. If you don't like it, then don't do it.
But get some momentum. Get some confidence. And just go help some people.
Don't make it harder than it has to be. I've found that people who accept the fact that it comes easy for a reason and I can charge people for the thing that comes easy to me. they find that they were so in their head even in the creation of the program because they're like dang we spent the first call talking about this very elementary concept but it's elementary to you but they just yeah expand you know and just yeah we're taking for granted the gifts but um just know people will pay for the thing that comes easy to you what would can you what would be the most succinct way if someone's like all right dude i all right i'm gonna build i'm gonna create a program and a business around my ability to help people xyz uh just the the one two three on that yeah so you need to decide how people are going to discover that you exist right so you got to become discoverable and that's why i think your stuff is so good content pick a platform youtube is a great platform especially if there's any teaching because youtube is a great it's a great education or entertainment platform it's also a great education platform yes um
It could be Instagram, it could be TikTok, but you need to have a place where people, you consistently, I think about it literally as a platform, like a stage. My buddy Pete Vargas used to always say you have to own your own stage. OPS, other people's stages, and your own stage.
And so you get to build your own stage. Like this show, you can... you basically get to invite yourself and your friends to talk every single week on your own stage.
It's like your mini conference that you host every week and you get to be the featured speaker. And so I do that too. And so start with that where you then have that singular person in mind.
And that'll simplify everything in your business. Don't make a business for a bunch of people or even a group of people. Even if you sat down today and wrote down one paragraph of the one person you want to serve.
That's why Rory's quote, you're most powerfully positioned to serve the person, singular, you once were. If it's you in the past, it's a lot easier.
What did you struggle with? What did you really want to change? What were the first, second, third steps to get there?
How did it feel? And make every piece of content around serving that one person. So it's really audience building through content, which is why your stuff is so important, so that people can discover you because these engines get you discovered really powerfully.
but also so they can try you out, right? So our content is pre -indoctrinating them, as Myron would say. It's creating an immersion experience.
Even my book, I like books because readers are smart people. Readers become clients often. But also, if someone wants to spend two hours with me and read my mind for two hours and my frameworks and my ideas, they're gonna know very quickly after those two hours of whether...
I'm their guy or not. And so it's a great sales tool for me. I don't even have to talk to them, even though they exist, for them to be sold on me in the way I think or sold on you.
And so create content that's long, that's immersive, that gets people to realize, oh my gosh, she can help me. He can help me. He's been where I've been.
She's been where I've been. And then just have a simple call to action. If this is helpful for you, you want help doing X, Y, and Z, book a call.
Just get on a call and see if I can help you. That's the simplest. content, book a call, let's get on Zoom and we'll see if I can help you.
And you don't have to have anything built or filmed. You don't have to have a coaching program. It can all be custom and bespoke.
In fact, that would be more helpful in the early days for them because then you can say, well, where are you stuck, Omar? If we could work together for 12 months, what would you want to have happen? Let's do that.
And then you'll get paid to learn. what your ideal clients need and want and what works. And you can come up with frameworks and ideas.
And then you could put all that into a coaching program later for the masses. I find the bar that I share is that the calls are the curriculum. Yes.
So like, don't feel like you're selling, you have to create something to sell. You're selling them something to create. Oh, that's so good.
And so let the calls drive like, yeah, what do you need help to unpack? Cool. How many calls is that going to take?
That's the curriculum. The curriculum are the calls. When it'll be better, because I've done the opposite for years where I'm like, I made this 12 -week program.
It's going to be amazing. And they're like, they know this is valuable, but they're like, I just want you to talk to me about X, Y, and Z. And I'm like, no, just finish the videos first.
Go through the videos. So I made that mistake for years in realizing, like you said, what are you so prepared for that you can just get on a Zoom call right now and help somebody with? Just do that.
Just get on a call with people and serve them. Great. I mean, that's literally pick a platform, discovery call, and then sell them on calls.
And then make sure you document when they have a win. I think something I wish I did early on was just like, whether it was the text messages, whether it was the DMs, whether it was on the call themselves saying like, bro, I did what you said, and this is what happened. And I'm like, let's go.
And it was like, was that recorded? And it wasn't. Shoot.
because you can now start building that proof, which I think at some point it gets even easier because you actually are doing it. So true. And I always tell people, because they're like, well, how do I start?
I don't feel very confident. I'm like, do whatever you can to get that one client, like that one person and give them a transformation, just help them so that they give you a testimonial, but even then take it a step further so you have their story to tell. yeah like if you only help the one person like if you help me and like i'm like oh my gosh omar i was stuck at five thousand dollars a month in my business now i'm doing fifty thousand dollars a month in my business and it's easier than ever before like you now could take that story and even if it's the only one you had and on any podcast you're on any any coaching call with somebody or prospecting call or even in your next YouTube video, you can be like, hey, let me tell you about my buddy Graham.
He's a client of mine. He came in, he was stuck at five. Now you get to talk about someone else other than yourself.
Because a lot of creatives and content creators, they don't like to talk about themselves. So don't. Talk about that one person that you helped over and over again.
Tell their story. It's less of a sales pitch. Their defenses go down.
Now, I love stories because now people insert themselves into your client's story. Like, oh, I wonder if, what would it be? Wouldn't it be cool if I worked with Omar and I went from 5 ,000 to 50 ,000?
They're doing that at a subconscious level. And you haven't even pitched them anything yet, but they know that you bring transformation in this specific way for other people. And it's the simplest way to sell.
Just tell the story. Even if you have one, run that play over and over again. Tell that story everywhere.
So good. Is there anything we missed in regards to this? And I'm holding his book, which you guys should buy.
I mean, you should get it. It's a quick read. It's super actionable.
There's a ton of frameworks. The whole goal of that book is to help you build a high income, low maintenance business and life. So if you need to make more, but it feel easier, have more time, you know, because we got kids, we got church, we got golf, you know, got travel.
If you want even time to learn, go to events like we've been at the last two days, like to be able to take two days off to just learn and immerse. If you want that kind of lifestyle, but you need to make way more money. these are the frameworks to do it beautiful i'll link up all your stuff down below appreciate you uh more than coming on podcasts i think uh when you go down this journey building a business you meet some incredible people uh not everyone is a natural connection but some i think are beyond the time and season we're currently in and i just appreciate your friendship and your encouragement man the last couple years and stuff yeah bro you're a good dude keep it up let's go let's go
The Hook
The bait, then the rug-pull.
The cold open promises effortless money is possible, then Graham Cochrane spends the next 45 minutes making the case that it's not a lucky break: it's a decision about what you charge, what you spend on, and what you're actually willing to put to work.
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Myron Golden tells Omar Eltakrori why the only way to learn how to raise your price is to raise it, and why rich people are exactly who you should be selling to.
Daniel Priestley returns to The Dept. for a third time to argue that personal brand now beats business brand by 20 to 1 — and to lay out the exact content system that makes the algorithm find your people for you.
An AI strategist walks through the exact five-step Claude system behind a single $3,000 consulting call, from the pre-call research brief through the $18,000 tier it anchors.
A solo creator walks through income, net worth, and basketball data to argue that reaching the top 1% isn't the finish line, it's where real competition begins.
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