A 77-minute unscripted livestream where two direct-response operators vent about a brutal September, then spend the rest of the stream answering the audience's toughest funnel and offer questions live.
Posted
11 months ago
Duration
Format
Interview
educational
Views
1.1K
36 likes
57 · 43
Big Idea
The argument in one line.
Diversifying revenue only protects a business when it targets the actual point of failure, the traffic source or the back-end safety net, not simply the number of funnels or offers running.
Who This Is For
Read if. Skip if.
READ IF YOU ARE…
You run paid acquisition for a coaching, info, or low-ticket funnel business and want real numbers behind a bad month, not a highlight reel.
You manage a sales team and are weighing comp-plan changes, W-2 versus 1099 classification, or how to roll out a pay-structure change without losing people.
You're building a software product and want a concrete framework for selling the process first and the tool second.
You're deciding between joining a paid mastermind and figuring things out solo, and want an honest account of what that decision bought someone else.
SKIP IF…
You want a structured, single-topic tutorial, this is an unscripted two-person conversation that jumps between a dozen loosely related business topics.
You're outside direct-response or info-product marketing, the vocabulary (OTOs, AOV, CAC, VSL) assumes you're already fluent in funnel terminology.
TL;DR
The full version, fast.
Ryan Clogg and Josh 'Lowticket' Gavin open with an unfiltered download on a rough September, a sales agency that fell through, a comp-plan overhaul, and the realization that scaling from one funnel to six didn't fix their real risk, a single traffic source. The conversation then turns tactical: live audience questions on selling software by leading with process instead of features, the real difference between order bumps and one-time offers, coach-to-client fulfillment ratios, and why a stuck LTV:CAC ratio only has two fixes. The throughline: diversify what's actually broken, not just the funnel count, and expect the fix to come down to mindset as much as tactics.
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Cold open. Ryan explains the sales bottleneck that capped growth all month: a sales agency fell through, then they hired an internal 'dream' rep who called out their negotiating tell during the offer.
02:43 – 07:17
02 · Rebuilding the sales comp plan
Ryan describes the sixth 'foundational reset' of the business: new unit-based commission tiers, W-2 base draws, and trimming overpaid middle-tier reps to fund top performers.
07:17 – 10:20
03 · The back-end money safety net
How renewal and win-back email/SMS flows (a 260-day evergreen sequence plus a churned-customer win-back flow) kept the business solvent during a bad acquisition stretch, and how the comp changes were rolled out to the team.
10:20 – 16:01
04 · One funnel too far
Ryan traces scaling from one $75M funnel to six, and concludes the real risk was never funnel count, it was concentrating traffic in one source. Both hosts riff on the burnout of being a public 'content creator' about their own numbers.
16:01 – 20:06
05 · Paying to sit at the table
Ryan explains joining Stefan Georgi's CA Pro mastermind mid-stream to get around 8-9 figure direct-response operators, and why he leans on e-commerce peers over info-product peers for sharper problem solving.
20:06 – 24:13
06 · Etsy flipping: a zero-capital biz-op
Josh riffs live on a no-money, no-ad-spend offer model: license a proven Etsy or Fiverr seller's product, then broker distribution through a Facebook group owner for a revenue split.
24:13 – 29:32
07 · W2 vs 1099, and three ways to stack an offer
Why Ryan's company was legally required to move its sales team to W-2, a detour on the Andrew Tate 'Real World' biz-op, and the three offer architectures the hosts see working: bundles, info-first-with-physical-back-end, and physical-first-with-coaching-back-end.
29:32 – 33:14
08 · Detour to Ecclesiastes
An unplanned faith conversation: how Ryan's worst financial months were invisible to everyone around him, and Josh's pitch that the book of Ecclesiastes (King Solomon trying everything and finding it meaningless) is required reading for entrepreneurs.
33:14 – 40:03
09 · Selling software by selling the process first
Chat Q&A opens. How to sell a sales-call-analysis SaaS by leading with a taught process (swipes, scripts, objection data) and upselling the software, plus the HYROS/ClickFunnels 'Trojan horse' distribution playbook.
40:03 – 46:17
10 · LTV:CAC, bumps vs OTOs, and paying for calls
A viewer's stuck 2:1 LTV:CAC ratio gets the 'fix acquisition or fix LTV' framework. Ryan draws a hard line between order bumps and OTOs, and the hosts debate charging for sales calls to raise show rates.
46:17 – 51:36
11 · The affiliate who out-cracked us
Josh tells the story of two media buyers who cloned his struggling ClickBank pre-sell and turned it into $800K+ in a few weeks purely through faster iteration, plus a story about dayparting ad spend to call-center hours.
51:36 – 58:25
12 · Culture, fulfillment ratios, and killing new funnels
Daily-standup habits, coach-to-client fulfillment ratios (50-100-250+ per coach), and Josh admitting he's stopped launching new funnels entirely since talking with Ryan about single-funnel focus.
58:25 – 1:06:30
13 · Quiz funnels, advertorials, and the mastermind ladder
Why a quiz can lower cost-per-click, why advertorial bridge pages reportedly don't work for direct-to-cart info offers, and a breakdown of Alan Sultanic's mastermind tiers from $5/month to $1,000/month.
1:06:30 – 1:17:18
14 · The mindset that separates winners
Ryan's 'Pocket CMO' down-sell offer for high-ticket consulting, the shared belief that wanting the responsibility is the real predictor of who succeeds in info coaching, and a closing answer on why novelty beats credentials in a crowded ad market.
Atomic Insights
Lines worth screenshotting.
Scaling from one funnel to six didn't reduce risk, it just hid that the real concentration was in a single traffic source the whole time.
Overpaying the middle and bottom of a sales team to stay 'over market' quietly caps how much a company can pay its top performers.
Renewal and win-back sequences turn a one-time buyer list into a revenue floor that can carry a business through a bad acquisition month.
An order bump and a one-time-offer upsell are different tools, a bump is a low-friction checkbox add-on, an OTO is a full dedicated page that can depress the primary conversion.
A stuck LTV:CAC ratio has exactly two fixes, raise lifetime value or lower acquisition cost, there is no third lever.
A software product sells better when the front end teaches a process and the paid upsell is simply the tool that executes that process faster.
Pitching a workflow tool to a sales manager risks reading as a threat to job security, the same pitch often needs to go to individual reps instead.
Charging for a sales call can push show rates toward 98%, but only works once the seller has enough authority that people believe the time is worth the price.
Coach-to-client ratios for one-to-one fulfillment commonly land between 50 and 100 clients per coach before the delivery model itself has to change.
Converting a sales team from 1099 to W-2 is frequently a legal requirement once a company enforces hours or specific work methods, not an optional cost decision.
Two media buyers cloned a struggling ad campaign and out-executed the original purely through faster iteration and split-testing, not a better offer.
In a crowded ad market, credentials and audit language don't differentiate an offer, a genuinely novel angle is what earns attention cheap enough to be profitable.
Takeaway
The real lever is never the funnel count, it's what feeds it
WHAT TO LEARN
Across an hour of unscripted troubleshooting, the same lesson keeps resurfacing: diversify your traffic sources and your back-end safety nets, not your product count, and mindset, not tactics, explains who actually sticks with a hard offer.
01Catching up: the September grind
In hiring negotiations, revealing you're impressed too early costs you leverage, the candidate who called it out during the offer was proof buyers and hires alike watch for that signal.
A sales bottleneck rarely gets fixed by spending more; when calls stayed capped even with more ad budget, the fix was internal hiring, not a bigger campaign.
02Rebuilding the sales comp plan
Overpaying the middle and bottom of a sales team to stay 'over market' quietly caps how much you can pay top performers, trimming the middle funds the top.
Moving commission to monthly unit tiers instead of flat per-unit rates rewards production without abandoning the safety of a W-2 base draw.
A pay-structure change lands better when leadership walks the math with the team individually rather than announcing a number and hoping it's understood.
03The back-end money safety net
Renewal and win-back sequences turn a one-time buyer list into a standing revenue floor that survives a bad acquisition month.
When front-end acquisition goes negative for a stretch, back-end and renewal revenue is what keeps the business solvent, treat it as insurance, not a bonus.
04One funnel too far
Running one funnel to $75M looked like 'single funnel risk,' but scaling to six funnels didn't fix the real risk, it was concentrated in one traffic source the whole time.
Diversify entry points, but the acquisition mechanism, the traffic source and offer type, is the actual lever, not the funnel count.
Sharing revenue numbers publicly creates pressure that has nothing to do with running the business well, treat content as optional expression, not the business itself.
05Paying to sit at the table
When you're stuck solving a problem alone, it's often faster to pay for access to people already solving it than to grind it out solo.
Peers outside your immediate niche often carry sharper problem-solving instincts because they compete on thinner margins and higher spend.
06Etsy flipping: a zero-capital biz-op
A no-money, no-ad-spend offer model exists: license a proven product from a creator who doesn't want to run ads, then broker distribution through a group owner for a revenue split.
Marketplace sellers often have a product that would convert if it had proper ad support, that gap is an opening for anyone willing to do the marketing they won't.
07W2 vs 1099, and three ways to stack an offer
Converting a sales team from 1099 to W-2 is often a legal requirement once you enforce hours or specific work methods, not an optional cost decision.
There are three offer architectures worth knowing: a bundle add-on, info-first with a physical-product back end, and physical-product-first with a coaching upsell.
Companies selling physical products first and monetizing the buyer list into coaching later can generate tens of millions a month, the buyer relationship is the asset.
08Detour to Ecclesiastes
Visible lifestyle inflation, not revenue, is usually what gives away a founder's rough financial stretch, and the absence of it is protective.
The lesson pulled from Ecclesiastes: even total resources and freedom to try everything didn't produce lasting satisfaction, only the daily work itself held up.
09Selling software by selling the process first
A tool without an attached process is a hard sell, the winning structure is a front end that sells the process and a paid upsell that is the tool executing it faster.
Selling a workflow tool to a sales manager risks reading as a threat to their team's job security, that objection often needs to be sold to individual reps instead.
10LTV:CAC, bumps vs OTOs, and paying for calls
A stuck LTV:CAC ratio has exactly two levers: raise LTV or lower CAC, there's no third lever.
An order bump and a one-time-offer upsell are not the same tool, a bump is low-friction, an OTO is a full page that can meaningfully depress the conversion you're actually optimizing for.
Charging for a sales call filters low-intent leads and can push show rates toward 98%, but it only works once you've earned enough authority that people believe your time is worth the price.
11The affiliate who out-cracked us
Two media buyers cloned a struggling campaign and out-executed the original because their edge was rapid iteration and split-testing skill, not the underlying offer.
Small operational details compound: syncing ad spend to the hours your funnel actually converts best in can add tens of thousands a month with no other change.
12Culture, fulfillment ratios, and killing new funnels
Coach-to-client ratios for one-to-one fulfillment commonly land between 50 and 100 clients per coach, above roughly 100-250 the delivery model itself has to change.
In founder-mode growth, the discipline that matters isn't meetings for their own sake, it's a single source of truth for the number that's actually the bottleneck that week.
Deliberately not launching a new funnel, even when the temptation is constant, protects the team's ability to actually finish improving the one that's already converting.
13Quiz funnels, advertorials, and the mastermind ladder
A quiz can lower cost-per-click by shifting ad intent from 'buy now' to 'learn something,' but it only pays off if the quiz answers route people to a genuinely better-fit next step.
Advertorial-style bridge pages reportedly convert well in e-commerce but multiple operators here found they don't translate to direct-to-cart info offers, treat category claims as untested until proven in your own market.
Mastermind tiers scale from a low-cost monthly community up to four figures a month for individual coach access, the right tier depends on whether you need general exposure or specific feedback.
14The mindset that separates winners
The biggest predictor of who succeeds at info coaching isn't tactics, it's whether they actually want the responsibility that comes with it.
Down-selling a high-ticket consulting offer works like any ascension ladder, strip pieces of the deliverable to create price points below the top tier.
In a crowded ad market, credentials and audit language don't differentiate you, a genuinely novel angle is what gets attention cheap enough to be profitable.
Glossary
Terms worth knowing.
LTV:CAC
The ratio of a customer's total lifetime revenue to the cost of acquiring them. A ratio below roughly 3:1 usually signals an acquisition or retention problem.
OTO (One-Time Offer)
A full dedicated upsell page, with its own pitch and video, shown once during a checkout flow, distinct from a simple add-on.
Order bump
A low-friction checkbox add-on shown on the same checkout page, without a separate page, video, or additional click.
AOV
Average Order Value, the average dollar amount a customer spends in a single transaction.
CAC
Customer Acquisition Cost, the total marketing and sales spend required to acquire one paying customer.
VSL
Video Sales Letter, a video-based sales pitch used in place of, or alongside, a written sales page.
W-2 vs 1099
W-2 classifies a worker as a legal employee with tax withholding and benefits; 1099 classifies them as an independent contractor with more autonomy but less control by the company over how they work.
Trojan horse funnel
A distribution strategy where a free or low-cost tool spreads because using it exposes the tool to each new user's own audience, converting distribution into growth.
Dayparting
Adjusting ad spend or funnel routing based on the hour of day, to match the windows when a call center or funnel actually converts best.
Quiz funnel
A funnel that routes a visitor through a short interactive quiz before presenting an offer, used to raise buyer intent and personalize the pitch.
Resources
Things they pointed at.
16:31productCA Pro (Copy Accelerator)
1:03:22productAlan Sultanic's Fast Forward / NHB masterminds
32:45channelBEMA podcast
58:55toolPerspective (quiz-builder software)
37:04toolHYROS
Quotables
Lines you could clip.
03:31
“we gassed the tank like just exhausted it”
vivid metaphor for burnout after overspending to win an internal bet→ TikTok hook↗ Tweet quote
See every word as it's spoken — crank it to 2× and still catch all of it. The same dual-channel trick behind Amazon's Kindle + Audible.
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metaphoranalogystory
what's up how we doing guys we're back uh i'm not posting at all so we're just doing these for fun randomly because we're both on the trenches building right now and these are fun for us this is no it's therapy dude it's like we are grinding and then we can come up and like let it all out and then we can go back and then it's like but dude it's fun it's when there's no problems to solve like we've had a really weird wall this week where what We had a really weird lull, like a delay, where our biggest bottleneck, there was no way to really solve it.
And it's just going to, like, it's one of those problems where, oh, I can say it. Our sales team, our sales team fell through. So then we're like, okay.
We hired a sales agency that didn't work. Sales agency that fell through. And then we went back to just our expert and our publishing deal taking the calls, which is fine, but he can only take.
four or five maybe like six calls a day but we're immediately booking that many with like a hundred dollars in spend with a low ticket funnel so it's like we we're cat like it's so annoying it's like how to make more money we need we want to spend more because the numbers look amazing we can't so we have that law and then we sales team that falls through so i'm like let's internally hire from our network i make a post got a great look great leads we hired an amazing person and fit everything.
We literally dream sales rep, checked every box. And it was one of those things where you, it's like going into a new car or a dealership, buying a car. You go in the car, it's like the first car you look at.
And it's like, it's amazing. But you're like, I should go look at other dealerships and get a better deal. And you don't want to give the sales, like at the dealership, like signals that you really like it.
It's like, yeah, yeah, we'll go. We're going to talk to other people and get back to you. And then we'd hang up the Zoom call and we're like.
Bro. Yeah. We're a hundred percent.
Yeah. She called us out. She was like, well, you kind of gave away your hand when you said like that I fit everything you're looking for.
So I'm assuming that you're not going to go talk to their people. I was like, screw you. Oh, but she's great.
So we hired them. But now it's like with the availability next week, we can go crazy. So we're still, we have one more week of being a law and just like only booking four or five calls a day.
which is fine. So now it's like, you're sitting around, but I'd rather be in the play. Like, I hate those problems.
I want to have where you're running, you're grinding. You're like, it's annoying when you feel like it's out of your control and there's nothing you really do. And you're just waiting.
I think that's the worst. Yeah. Yeah.
What about you? What's the word? What problems do you hate dealing with?
Like, which ones are fun to solve? And it was like, it's part of the game. Which ones do you hate?
I mean, I just said this to you prior, but we, uh, starting Friday. I'm going to all of the info coaching events. So it's like Jeremy, it's Cole, it's I'm actually going to an affiliate event, like an affiliate mastermind, where it's all lead gen guys, just all these things.
And it's all going to be talking either info coaching, which everyone uses the headline, like how we scaled the 30 million in info coaching business, or like that we just did 10 million in two months, then hit the 5 million back to back all that. And dude, the next month in this September, talking about pain points, whatever, everything exploded.
Like we changed comp models. We, for sales, we have new sales leadership. It's not like new, but like 90 day new.
So they were like, just hit, we just pulled every lever. So it was like everything we could do in marketing to fill calendars overspend. We don't care just because we were trying to win the bet and we were trying to push it to the limits.
We were trying to do all the things all at once to just like make it fit. and it did and it worked but like we gassed the tank like just exhausted it and coming into september was just bad and then we tried not to touch anything like as leadership kind of tried not to touch anything and like let the leaders do and then yeah we all just need to like recenter and realign a little bit um but september was very bad uh on the market on the acquisition side of the business and then even on fulfillment it was good in terms of like product delivery but like no money over there because we juiced it all because we did all the renewal stuff or like back end ltv style stuff we did that during those two months there's like nothing happening over there and then on the front they are not acquiring new customers at a good rate both in like closed percentages as well as like cost per everything like it was just bad so we reset everything and then coming into this month was the same and it's like you know we're six months six days into the month but like is the same and then now we're like
got it re rejigged a bit a little and like hopefully but we are we're going through a massive shift right now that ideally I think there's like the sixth time it's been like foundational changes to make it so like it'll be good for the next era and like it kind of has been but now we're doing it again we're like that's happening in sales it feels like we have some great people on team and like we changed the comp plan it pays the top people very well still but like the middle bottom came down a bit because we were over market by far And it just incentivizes production, plain and simple.
It's based on units. There's kickers. There's big bonus things that are kind of spread out more that are quarterly and annual.
We moved everything to month base, actually. I don't think I told you this. We moved everything to based on how many units you close within the month.
So if you get 0 to 10 units, 10 to 25 units, 25 plus, let's say, which is as example math, you hit different commission tiers. So you go from like whatever, six to eight to 12 or something like that, right? Like kind of like some bigger variances because we do where everyone's W2.
So there's like base draws. So if people don't hit numbers, we're still paying out already. And so it just like moves it into more performance, very strict performance with still all the same bases and still all the same W2 reliance 401k or like, you know.
But yeah, so we just changed all that up. So sales is having its thing and then marketing costs went up and it's just like. We had six funnels running and it was like turn everything off, but like the two best ones, like in a buyer funnel and a lead funnel.
And that's it. And just like go from there. So I don't know.
I mean, yeah. I'm curious. You exhausted your existing list and renewals.
Obviously, it pushed those five million months. You got that money. It obviously worked well.
But then afterwards, you're seeing this down. I feel like my mind goes to or maybe other people think. well do you regret doing that would you would you wish you would have kept their back pocket but then my mind it's like okay either way the money now is better than money later so even if you didn't exhaust it it's like either way you make it two months from now like yeah i mean i mean when we start when we start getting back up money back it's just the constant reminder that back -end money is just so powerful and it's like and when acquisition isn't working correctly and back -end money is there it like saves you And when acquisition is working and back end money is working, it's like you're crazy, crazy profitable.
So it's like if like we didn't have the back end money, it would be like.
It would not be good, right? Like it would just not be in a good position. And I'm talking monthly versus annually versus all that kind of stuff.
But like for us right now, that opened up such a like eye to what we can do evergreen. for the back and now there is like multiple touch points we rolled out that's again into process that's a 10 month into process so 260 day from end we already had those we have win back sequence so you basically have like current active client evergreen renewal now which already kind of existed but like really exists now we then have it on a win -back flow so like anybody who's ever churned and how they can get back on calendars of like a back -end retention rep so those are coming through like pretty, I don't want to say high volume, but like they're coming in, which is cool and have like a re -offer rate for them to come in.
And that's all around the same offering before we go the other direction, which is like other things to sell them. This is like, how do we get more people back to the core thing? We still haven't even launched the other LTV things, but right now, if I was just like, you know, fire hose, like, no, I don't regret doing it.
Cause like you said, money now, money, like, you know, it was 45 % cashflow on that month, like all good. Um, but acquisition needs some love and that's where we're like entire focuses right now so and then with how did you communicate the internal pay changes to the team in a way that didn't feel like i guess it was there's like a benefit like how did you not lose or feel like it kind of surprised I guess we said a comp structure.
Well, the comp structure, yeah. And CSO launched that and sent it to team. I did math with them, made sure the math made sense.
Because our whole thing was like, we don't want everyone to pay cut at all. We want top reps to make the same or more. That's the goal here.
But we need to thin out. We just can't pay what we're paying for middle tier stuff. Because when you start to include, when you're so paid heavy, and you start to include...
opportunity cost or literal cost of bookings and use like we call it like calendar uh calendar roi or like uh people call it ror so like return on rep like stuff like that um when you blend all those numbers in there you need to have like you can have like multiples you can have like a an ror on the rep and see what that number is um and it was just time to get like the top performers are top performing and we're going to continue to pay them well if not better just so that got launched that way and then the directions for how marketing was going to change up how they did kind of was like a little micromanaging to be honest like it was kind of like it's on fire we've kind of tried to do these through like some touch points and some recommendations but like these are the top three things nothing else like dead everything just everything else and there's like 14 projects right now and like all this stuff we could do but it's not about what you can do it's what you are doing and like what you're doing well and the issue was it was just too many wide that were not all like there was a couple in there you're like oh if we were just running these two or three you'd like to think assuming you can do the volume you know cpa is half on these ones than it is on these ones like why are we running these ones so there's a bit of that but blah blah blah that's that's so like what happened to you guys is what i see happen to a lot of the companies i consult on where
They want every single funnel or not that you got, not, not that you guys are, you want to expand, right? Cause you're like, my eggs are one basket. It's my call funnel.
It's in my webinar funnel. It's in my, you want more, which is smart to do. But I know there's some companies where it's like, they're like, it's a challenge webinar.
I looked at this and it's like, cause just nail one. Like, yeah, you can go deep and there's somewhere you just, I don't know. I think I'm starting to lose.
I'm starting to gain the belief and like lose an old one where I now believe like you can get anything to work. Like you can get it to break through. I don't know how long, just how many inputs you make into it until it finally goes.
And it's how long you're willing to have it suck until it does pay off. But very, very rarely do we like cut an offer and say, Oh, scrap it. Let's do a different one for low tickets.
Specifically early on. I also knew I was like, nah, it sucks. We failed.
Let's another one. But dude, we did. I mean, we did.
all three of these deaths on one funnel right like we did 75 million through one funnel and then the lat and then whatever right like 92 or so i don't even know probably now and it's like the last 15 have been through like six funnels and that's crazy uh that's like crazy to think about that we like just over index the opposite direction it's like oh we have all this like single funnel risk we have a single funnel risk and then we might be cool now we have six of them and like they work but like they don't necessarily like beat the original one necessarily like we hammered too much volume into the first one until it broke and what i'm really starting to realize is like the risk point wasn't necessarily the funnel like it was and like we did need very it was the traffic which was like an interesting kind of thought and like it's not like tried and true of like oh we could have just run one funnel and kept that one like yes we should have multiple entry points that do yes we should have that we should have the big thing is like the mechanism it's or like the mechanisms wrong like acquisition mechanism or like type which is like low ticket versus lead funnel vsl funnel right it's like you have opt -in funnels you have dta funnels and you have like low ticket or channel like you start to go down these rungs so like yes we needed another one or two but i think again what happened is what went off the rails was
the one traffic source a majority being that so yeah that's kind of just like i feel like i'm like a terrible content creator share or whatever right now but like like it's just frustrating it's frustrating right now like i'm like oh what do i share and what it's like uh things that's that's the problem though with this freaking and this is why for me even in like creating content it's just i just do it when i want to scratch the edge of sharing it's not it should never be your sole business like that's why it's so annoying especially if it's related to business or making money dude that's why all these poor gurus out there who like pigeonhole themselves by flexing it just sucks that when things go bad because then the ego the reputation like bro when i was having my worst months in business and was like the lowest ever been nobody knew no one could tell no no no even my Well, my girlfriend at the time, now wife, she didn't even know.
Like my lifestyle was like so not inflated that she had no idea when I was going through until I told her. And so I think for everyone watching this too, like that's one of the perks is that's what I loved about, I think Mr. Beast had talked about that or somebody had said something where it's like, it doesn't matter.
And so for you, the nice thing for you is like, you don't need to post to like survive or get clients or do stuff. It's just a benefit when you do. So yeah, who cares about trying to be a content creator?
Like, and honestly, like. you want to give people the gift of missing you or whatever yeah i mean i don't know it's just like it's like you're a smart content creator you finally stopped posting so much so people don't get yeah i mean i don't know it's just like all around just kind of like but the easiest the simplest word i have is just like frustrating like it's just like frustrating right now that like all of this you know, we started, I started sharing and we were doing whatever million and a half a month.
We're stuck. Here's how we're restructuring. Here's everything's currently set.
Here's the intention. Here's the goal. And like, boom, like clockwork.
We were like hitting, hitting, hitting, hitting. It was like 1 .5 threes. We've made this big public bet fives.
And it was like five, five. And we're like, huh? Like all in the glory.
Right. And the next month is like, just bang my head on desk. It's like, do you think the lesson from this is don't like talk about stuff and show off or the lesson this is just business and this is real life and it's going to go up and down like what in your mind out of those two um what would you lean towards because you could be like those two i don't i don't mind sharing it because everyone yeah to me i think it's easy to be like and anyone who's like a high high producer or someone you know that you consider like competition or something in the space one can already funnel hack everyone and see everything and to like i don't i mean i already shared the numbers but most people in the cruise share these numbers the top people i just so how i went to solve for this but is like we need to be around people that are doing this and i was kind of out here and like yes around people that are doing it and people that are like crushing like you don't have to be doing i think it was
iman who said it at one point but he was like you know i don't care if you do five million a month or like 500k a month like you don't i don't see you differently and like i completely agree with that because there are ways someone maybe just didn't add an extra zero to their budget or like have as much time behind it but like could be running something at half a million a month better than something that is that five million or two million or whatever or 15 million um it might just be doing more volume but like the I've just been like surrounded in this crew and on that on X and doing that kind of stuff.
And I was like, who is out there running a hundred, 300, 500 million a year info ish businesses that are mainly what the real thing is. There's like direct response acquisition that is both direct to cart. And then ideally some level like high ticket and calls.
And that is the part that we're struggling with. And like, I'm going to practice what I preach and like, let's jump the line and pay for it. And so we, I asked on X and I shopped it around and I got a couple of people in DMS going back and forth and we joined CA pro.
like same day it was like cool now we're going to be in steph on georgia's group and like in that group like who runs around that circle whales plain and simple drop in a whatsapp group they've got like a recording thing you can sit there and go through everything um a couple guys reached out like as soon as we got in that was like oh i've either like seen your stuff and then like or people that i've like watched a ton of their content they're in there like so there's a bunch of kind of whales like faith brands all right it's like yeah it's direct response so it's like it's it's low ticket like it's affiliate yeah all medicine it's supplements it's info i mean it's all those things um and a lot of guys that are running vsls in general whether it's for low ticket or uh high ticket call funnels so yeah it's just overall it's just like the probably the direction the next person the next move for us to make is to put our team of leaders in that world around other people who are in that world running it and there's also just stuff that's like how is the team structured and like how are people comped within that world and like how do you guys focus on xyz funnels and when do you know when it is hit a point of capacity versus others and it's like you know like what do you mean capacity limits like you know we do two five million a month just with this one funnel and it's just loads
so yeah yeah i just think that was the next move this question there's questions in the chat but we were just yeah no i think one thing i'll say like honestly like hanging outside of info has been the most beneficial to me hanging around like e -commerce people around e -commerce stores so whether that's supplements or physical products In terms of scale wise and problem solving, they just compete at a much higher spend and level and problems and thinner margins than most info guys I'm around.
And so now recently, I just like call. There's a few people I talk to who I like to talk to, and they all are e -comm or. they used to be ecom and now they're info but they're running their info like it's ecom meaning there's no like high ticket ascension because then for me i can compete my front end low ticket offers the same way because i'm pretty much like running a similar model it's low ticket lower margins on the front end but i just have the benefit of essentially the back end but i pretend i don't now and so that's been who i hang out with and i i think that's cool so here i don't i literally know nothing about uh stephan's group but i always just heard about like the cop like the cop the biz op side like the copywriters coming out of that and like people would dog on that but it's like that's i mean that's like losers .io it's like you know they train people but they don't place the people they train and like their mastermind is not people that you know i mean it's like yeah yeah offers doesn't mean that one feeds the other necessarily so
We went to the event in Scottsdale a year and a half, maybe two years ago. That's how we met Eddie Maloof in the lobby and Josh Snow in the lobby. Cole spoke about that.
We weren't anywhere near that realm then. Now we're very close with Eddie and Josh and all those people. If nothing else, the people in the room is a big, big plus.
I appreciate being honest. People learn a lot from that. That's good.
my honest dude i feel like i'm just like i don't even know deflate it like i'm just like like lately you've been texting me you're like yeah you good i'm like yeah dude i'm good it's like my emotions are directly connected to cash collected at some level i'm like i'm just annoyed like i'm frustrated yeah i'm frustrated it's like But that's good to do like side quests and like all that kind of stuff is like all -time high and it's just like no It's like double down.
This is becoming you beast. Although you're leveling up. I know Do the reps do the reps and it's just like but this is 100 % the move.
It's just like Yeah, okay you provide how can I sell digital products without advertising or capital Here's want to know my way You want my offer? I think I bought the domain for this.
I hope so. So no one does this in case I do this. All right.
Etsy flipping.
Etsy flipping. All right. I think I bought the domain.
Praise. I hope. This would be such a good biz op.
Etsy flipping. What you do is you go to Etsy. You find a product in the category that's crushing.
It has a bunch of sales and conversions. And they are only selling on Etsy. You go approach the creator and say, hey, I'd love to license your product for an annual or monthly fee because I have customers and clients who would be interested in this.
I'd love to offer some as an added bonus to what I'm already doing. They say, oh, yeah, sure. That's cool.
Here you go. Because they're just making money on low tickets like a license fee. Oh, make more money.
Like they're chilling. They don't run a business. They run their product.
They're in the product game. They just create stuff. Then you go to a Facebook group owner who has the audience you're trying to go to.
You say, hey. I have a digital product already created in a funnel. I want to promote to your group.
I'll give you 50 % of the commissions or 60%. I just want the other 40%. I'll do all the marketing, the promo, use posts in your groups.
Does that sound good? And then you find someone who does, that'd be great. Does that count as advertising?
Well, he said no money like he's not gonna pay something. He's not like paying no, no, no advertising whatsoever and no capital I Like the idea that I like the idea though And I did this I'm thinking a new offer and I literally went to an Etsy seller because I was like, let me do this again So easy I went to chat to BC and said write a script like being really friendly and convincing this person and like they're like Yeah, sure.
Let's talk. Let's get a call for our licensing and then just take it and then you just bring it on cold.
Cause dude, these people do not know how to run ads. They're just, they're a marketplace. And so they sometimes have products that are suffering, but just need ads to it.
Yeah, that's fair. And you just rip it. And I did this in the interior design space and it was great.
Or you had a Fiverr and, or like these Etsy sellers are also on Fiverr. So I like found them there. One person, I was like, Hey, can I pay you?
And I kind of license it. So that's called Etsy flipping. Etsy flipping.
I like that. for that sake do you ever put your uh uh wife on to like do online side quests my wife yeah it's like a big thing like i always see like it's like oh yeah my girlfriend's like a like the number one tiktok shop affiliate or like my oh this and this people talk about that all the time like i've never i've never i mean like my mom like i have my mom make a vegan blog like oh we can hang out through that kind of and like or make my siblings i've got so many of them but like i my wife does photography so she already has a hustle so it's kind of like and she writes music so it's like she's kind of on a bunch of side hustles so it'd be dope we talk about real estate i was like i could save a ton of taxes make her a full -time real estate professional She, but she was like, she's like, I want to write songs and do photography.
You want me to look at, look at buildings 30 hours a week or whatever the minimum is. But then I was also like, I don't want to deal with that. I don't want to go home.
And she's like, Oh, I had a great day. Just hate. You know, I want to have a non -stressed out life.
Yeah. Yeah. A hundred percent.
I can be stressed out. I'll take the stress. You don't be stressed out.
I want to, what is it? Porsche Pilates, something like I want to. yeah i was driving by a porsche like babe you look so good in that and she's like no i want like a she loves her mazda cx5 i love my car like just just dream with me soon soon yeah yeah just i like she's like no i don't want that okay fine that's funny why did you guys switch to w2 for your sales team instead of just running 1099 um so for us so w2 is just kind of like legally required at a certain point um if you're telling there's just like guidelines on what w -2 is versus 1099 1099 you cannot require xyz ways to service things ways to do xyz job which is kind of like gray area uh meetings you can and can't enforce time requirements you can and can't refer enforce so like just as you get larger um it's the right way to run it if someone is w -2 versus their 1099 you can run it at scale very large at 1099 as well You just have to make sure you're following the US legal guideline of it.
So for us, we moved to W -2. I think we actually did it too early, and we probably shouldn't have done it when we did because it is a massive cost expenditure, both in managing it, what you have to offer, the literal dollars, just everything. It gets way more expensive.
So don't get me wrong. I wish we maybe didn't do it, but legally, we were at the time and place where we needed to and wanted to. And there's a lot of pros, too, to the employee.
Uh, there's a lot of pros. So yeah. Um, Riley, how do we still have things to talk about?
We don't, um, we just talk about what sucks and what's great now. And then that's happens. You're doing stuff all day.
I mean, it's like. yeah you just have so much to pull from like i could talk about like i could talk about so many things i'm changing our funnels i have to fix and do and i'm like this and that like you just wake up every day and you're doing 50 million different things and then for me i'm consulting on so many different things i see so many different things then you just read yap on that so yeah yeah we just strictly just on at this point in case you guys don't understand as i have literally no desire to yeah i just don't need to do this so i just don't i mean if i don't want to we don't do it Could be the real world.
The real world? What does that mean? Do you read that one?
Yeah, something about the real world. I don't know what that means. Wait, just put it up.
Are you sure? I don't know what it means. Oh, it's like Illuminati type stuff.
Oh, is that Tate? Could be the real world type load ticket store. Yeah, yeah, real world.
That's Andrew Tate. That's what I thought. Could it work?
Yes, it's working. Bro, I had some interesting dudes that were working on their funnel and they're ripping something similar. And it's like, there's a lot of issues with their organic like discord, but it's honestly, I was like, I was surprised how well it works compared to what I'm used to.
So, but yeah, it's working. I see people doing it. It's gotta be biz op.
Yeah. Trading, trading or biz op. Trading and biz op.
Oh, here we go. Yes, Riley. That's what I do.
I just, I just, he's about to leave. I haven't left this up. No, I don't go anywhere.
How are you guys using e -comm and info bundle and offer testing to make front end work and info like it's e -comm and the Ascension is just icing on the cake. How are you guys using e -comm and info bundle and offer testing to make the front end work? Wait, can you answer these questions?
I go to the bathroom quick. Yeah, you're good. Hold on the floor.
Take your headphones off. Just kidding a bundle and offer testing to make so yeah, I see people do it both ways So there is a very large. Well, let's talk about the three because it's there's bundle There's info entry with econ like physical product on the back and then there's the opposite which is physical product on the front and info on the back so for I'm currently not using it.
So let me let me clear that up But I can tell you what I've seen and what think people have done in the market so The bundle thing is real. A lot of people will like add on or basically use it as like an AOV booster.
It's like, oh, and get the, you're buying a dog supplement and then get the training guide here for an extra $9 .99. And they get it and there's zero cost to fulfill. So it just bumps the AOV at 10 bucks, right?
That's like way one way two is info first and then you have a customer that's for this thing and it's like oh you also need Supplements you also need whatever or like people even like service. It's like info service space all of that So like the hormones II gym launch model people all come in they join this challenge thing And then it's all you also need supplements and they make physical product revenue It's like what else who your customer who else is who who else?
sells to your customer basically and then how can you monetize from that direction and then the other side of it and that one's I've never been in that world but I hear people are crushing with that which is like econ first so people who are selling supplements and then upsell to mid -ticket and high -ticket coaching or info and coaching and there are people that are doing that i know directly that are doing tens of millions a month selling to econ lists and customers of econ products so imagine if you had like a like a collagen protein and you were selling that aggressively and you're getting hundreds of new customers a day and then you're transitioning those buyer lists over to a coaching business that trains on whatever, either, you know, either health and supplement style or I'm sorry, health and like wellness style or like training, strength training wise, collagen, protein, strength, right?
Like they parlay those over and they are doing, that company is doing tens of millions of dollars a month.
So that's there.
Where am I at? I lost this.
Ryan, are you Christian? I would identify as such. Josh tells me to go to church.
I already go to church, but he told me that he needs to sit down with me and walk me through some certain verses. And that's the best for chapters and books and things. And that's what I will learn better on.
But I definitely identify with that and the morals. I'm a very, I'm a very strong. proponent of the morals and the alignment there i have some i have some other opinions on some other stuff that i just like i'm not well educated enough on um but overall it's like yeah like being around you it's like yeah your morals like you're a good guy yeah you check people think you're a christian you look like just like traditional midwest white christian like group lutheran you know You know, I do my best, all right?
I do my best. And sometimes it's not the best or good enough. No, but seriously, dude, Ecclesiastes, if you're watching this, I'll share it.
Read the book of Ecclesiastes. I don't care if you're Muslim, Buddhist, atheist, read the book of Ecclesiastes because you've got this guy. You know King Solomon, Ryan?
You know King Solomon? All the entrepreneurs love to read Proverbs. We love to read God wants to bless you and, oh, be wise and you'll make money.
Everyone loves to talk about that. But then we forget to read his other book called Ecclesiastes, which is the aftermath of him when he had all his money. He's trying to find happiness.
He tries women, drugs, alcohol, jesters, comedians, real estate, slaves, everything. He tries everything. And the whole book pretty much is a journal of him talking about it's all meaningless.
And in the end, the only thing that made him happy was working hard on the earth. and obeying God's commands. He said, toil under the sun, enjoy the fruit of your labor, and obey God's commands.
That's what it came down to. The guy's the richest man in the world. His money would equate to like 100 times what Elon Musk has now.
The richest man in the world found out everything is meaningless. So I thought, if he already did the hard work and made more money than I'll ever make, and he got the solution, I'm just going to trust him. And he's like, oh, money doesn't make you happy if you're saying that you just haven't made enough.
The richest man in the world said it's meaningless. So who are you going to trust? Some guy in Miami?
who freaking yeah well that's definitely not who are you that's definitely not who are you listening to the original guru or somebody i don't know anything i just need to be like more educated on the whole oh dude yeah because it's all so confusing i just went to church i go my parents dragged me i'm like what the frick is this i guess y 'all do it but if you don't understand anything about it it's like you gotta understand i i like align with like morally i think that a majority of the people that i have met that would classify themselves as xyz like are in alignment with like as a person yeah just their intentions are and not everyone 100 yeah i mean of course not everyone in anything not everyone not any never no extremes but like that the i just am not educated enough on like the stories or yeah who's who who the heck is god who's who and like in a court like who happens when we die like all this stuff you know i'm still learning it but there's a great podcast called bema b -e -m -a for anyone who's out there fellow believers non -believers go listen to it
studies the bible through the eastern view not the western view which is very important because western church has skewed the bible so anyways great ecclesiastes you're an entrepreneur you better read i was on my uber driver the other month i was like bro you gotta read i looked on his phone and like i searched up ecclesiastes like you read this and he's like an entrepreneur and it's the best book ever hoorah okay back to the goodies back to the tactical How do you run a low ticket offer for my software company objectionably?
We read sales call data to save sales managers time doing call. How much is it a month? Because sometimes it doesn't make, like, here's the thing.
I was actually talking to one of my clients about this, consulting clients, and they have a software. And you have to understand that the software. without a process is meaningless.
Speaking of meaningless, shout out to Ecclesiastes, a software without a process is meaningless. It is useless. ClickFunnels without the perfect webinar would have been meaningless, right?
ClickFunnels without the low ticket process, meaningless. Just a drag and drop for what? What do I put here?
Like there's no process for it. How would I use it? I'm going to cancel my subscription.
Go high level without the white labeled SaaS agency biz op. Pretty meaningless. Go high level without the agency model.
For you, you need to attach a process to your utility, which is your software. And so normally what will happen, okay, I see the price, is your front end offer sells a process, sells a process, and then your upsells is like the utility to do the process faster. So for an example, this just comes to mind.
In your market, swipes, scripts, things are going to be really big. You think about Jeremy Miner in the space. uh questions asking a sales call to get more clothes ask these questions to close more people he has objection black book things like that but i think it'd be cool if there was a product where You are like, if you analyze a lot of the data, you can be like, hey, our AI has analyzed like this many hours of calls across this many markets.
And we discovered like the most common objections or reasons people don't buy or whatever. We compiled it into like a list or a sheet and like show you how to solve them. So you like talk about like the objections and you just like it's like a white paper on the data you found, almost a case study.
And then you sell that to people. You have some other bumps and templates around how to handle them. And then your upsell is like, hey.
By the way, we understand everyone's different and whatever, and you're going to hear new objections. And so we have the software that's going to analyze your objections in real time, review your sales teams or salesmen, like whatever it is, like save time for your sales teams, source the data, feed it to your marketing team so they know what ads to write.
And then boom, your software becomes a part of it. And then inside your front end product, you're teaching them how to use it. So that's normally how I do it as a front end needs a process.
But the thing is like. How you sell it to a sales manager versus how you sell it to an individual sales rep will look a little different. Sales managers might be hesitant where they're like, is this going to replace me?
So you have to make sure you don't scare them with job security because that's kind of their job is to do that. So it's like, why is no one buying? Is it because you're scaring your sales?
Do you need to sell to individual people? Do you need to go down a level? So I know one company, they did a...
andy elliott's partners or used to be he's had this software which would list people's like cars on marketplace so dealerships cars and they saw the biggest dip in their revenue when they started trying to go b2b like the sales managers like the manager of the companies instead of just to the sales reps individually because that might sound like they're like i don't want my other people to know about it or compete yeah that makes sense uh that's another thing is like who are you going after but yeah i think if you do a low ticket that's the way to do it otherwise I mean, that's literally the only way I know to sell software is to sell process on the front end.
Yeah. And the other frame of that is like the, like high roast and click funnels and those guys like that, where they like Trojan horse it. I was talking to Luke Alexander as a similar software to that.
And I was like, I don't know why someone, cause I don't know who else is running that playbook right now. Like, cause how you're saying it with like process driven sale, like. So Hyros works in the beginning by taking all the top people, selling them how to do info amazing like Becker does.
And oh, while you're in there, like the best way to track all your stuff because you're going to be on YouTube because he basically was teaching people how to do YouTube ads and everyone was already on meta. So it was like, oh, as soon as you have two traffic sources, like things get all wonky. So like use high rose and we got on like every all these top people got on high rose and then because it was a good product to just spread.
But it's like ClickFunnels. You just said the same thing. It's like, here's how you make money online basically for just a gist.
And it's like, oh, you use ClickFunnels. I got ClickFunnels software because I bought the first. call funnel whatever thing that was a black box business model that the back end of it was like you can be an affiliate and just copy funnel us oh and you need to click funnels account like they just spread like that right like so yeah i mean i don't know i i still think that there's tons of room in the market for people to be doing that and it just really helps with like not having to raise i mean i don't know i've never run a software business but everyone talks about how capital expend that you're right how aggressive it is and like if you don't have consistent acquisition and or negative acquisition then especially a software company i was talking to i was consulting with software company bdb that wants to exit and they were talking about like the fact that they have a low ticket funneler optimizing that makes it such an like more or better appeal to the investors who want to buy it because instead of going to the negative for a long time to get recurring revenue then sell it to someone else who could take on that day or coming back it's like oh we have none like we we didn't we just acquire all those customers
it's so sick and so yeah that's really good to have that process in the front end and just you can hide it in the back and I honestly like I don't know I don't like put I sometimes will put it as an upsell right in the funnel but sometimes I'll just hide in the back end or introduce it some later on but yeah either way I got a lot of questions coming here now um I'm late what happened to Ryan's cash flow I'm gonna get that I'm gonna get that tattooed on my forehead um just was we did 50 and 40 percent months prior, which is like, so I'm just blending it and saying 45 % on the 10 mil and then for the two months.
And then we juiced everything and acquisition was not. great during that it was like okay like good enough but like we were doing enough volume it didn't matter um and then and we used a lot of back -end money but coming to the new month it's all new only so it's solely based on new acquisition and a lot of things broke honestly like meta went off the rails for us uh we were multi -funnel spread like just not good so yeah that was a that was a bummer But we're getting back in pocket now.
It's actually coming down right now, which is good. So that is what happened with cash flow on last month. Not great.
And we spent into it, which is also a thing that we've done in the past. And I think we're going to try and change culture and behavior around. We've always spent into problems.
It's like, oh, they're not converting. Get more on the calendar, which is just spend more money instead of like dial down, focus up. So I'm excited to see kind of how the new team and the new culture of that.
Next one. I have a business that's doing a million a year in rev, but LTV to CAC has never been above two. Running paid directly to high ticket and operations are tight.
How would you pivot? So are you saying it's one to two overall or like one to two first purchase? Because it's one to two overall.
That's definitely tight.
How would you pivot? It's just solve for acquisition. I mean, that's not true.
It's sold for acquisition or it's sold for LTV. I mean, it's just one. I was thinking about his business stuff.
Yeah, I'm like, oh, I've seen that equation before. I've seen that math before. No, but I mean, if we didn't have, let me just say this.
If we didn't have the backend money, like at times, I said this earlier, at times, like we would not be in a good place. Like when we had sloppy acquisition and... overgrowth and overstaff and like trying to learn and figure out if we didn't have the back end money we would not be in a good position so there are more things you can sell there is a way to increase ltv i don't know what the exact business is so there are ways to do that and then the other is solving for cac which is what we've kind of talked about mostly which is like different types of acquisition different types of traffic sources affiliate like you got affiliates you got partnerships you've got paid you've got organic you've got all those things for sources and then how do they actually convert into paying customers there's low ticket ascension there's low ticket um you know aov funnels that then turn into high ticket there's challenge funnels like josh talked about there's all these types of different funnel types and what josh said earlier was like you know don't launch nine of them
which I did. It's like launch the next one that beats it and just work on one until it beats the current one. So you can still pay your bills and do all your stuff, but scale into it.
And I think that meant that answers it. Yeah.
I can't hear you now. Muted. I was like, we don't know.
Yeah, it's pretty good for all you have. Okay. Ryan, why is your funnel low ticket ascension without any bumps and OTOs?
The whole idea behind that, there are bumps first off because we're trying to get AOV up on that. So there are bumps, but no - People get confused. People think when I say no upsell, there are OTOs and bumps.
Some people think they're the same. I think they're different. What, bumps and OTOs?
Yeah, some people, I would say, I don't have any upsells, but what are the checkboxes on your thing? I'm like, oh no, those to me are bumps. Those are order bumps.
It's different from an upsell. Yeah. I mean, it's definitely different, right?
Like an OTO, you're fully controlling the framing. It's a whole dedicated page, the video, everything to it versus just like an accessory or like an add -on. So we do bumps.
We don't do OTOs because the idea being that the drop -off rate from OTO, even if they click yes or no to the next, even adding that one page of friction from getting someone to book a call. uh with the setter we are under the impression in current state that it'll be too big of a drop and our main focus is ascension not necessarily aov but i'm not like a hard i do believe that and like math and wise but at the same and like it's not really something i'm willing to test right now but it's something i would test yeah right now i think i like what blake said though what he's tested is you do an upsell after they book a call yeah so it's like yeah so if you get 100 60 book a call right now they go to the thank you page that's like oh fill out this questionnaire and form so the person has more information those are actually very valuable it's not causation but it is like correlation or whatever where the people who fill out more information on there and type more in the boxes then are much more likely to close but it's like you know you can't change the person necessarily like to do more or less right but yeah
yeah it's a definitely a good spot i've also heard people charging for the call which is another brain for an oto it's like your show rates go to like 98 yeah but it's like if you're nobody no status no reason for your time to be worth what it is you're pricing it i thought i found it's hard if you're nobody unless it's like you're setting it up for them like let's say i sold you a low ticket phone templates on the front end hey jump on this call i'm going to build it install into your account hook up the integration and see this for you like it's a done free service i've seen a high take rate something like that where you're a nobody like i've done 997 offers in upsell 2 and had a 10 take right so but again it's done for you b2b so but i've seen some people they try to offer a call and then feel like why is your time worth 97 bucks or 297 it's like also then like the founders like do i want to take calls that much and then sales seems like the volume what they want volume and then you offer a call for free later then people get pissed
yeah existing customers what's the difference versus your free call and your paid call because then what do you go back and try and book a closer call through the main site so you're charging for the center business if you're taking the calls you're an expert my time is worth money and i don't want to be taking calls everybody 100 like for me i would if i'm if i didn't have a sales team and if i'm selling my b2b consulting stuff i'd probably charge for a call but that's if i'm not playing a scale game I don't know.
It's going to be interesting, though, once that gets abused, the sales process of an implementation call. Question for Josh. Jordan is what?
He's the ClickBank one? Yeah. Yeah, definitely.
He does lead gen offers, which is sort of like pay -per -call. So that's what he's moving into. That's what he mainly does now.
Ah. Yeah, that's what I mean. I was going to say all of my friends or acquaintances that are in that world play in both worlds frequently.
Go ahead. Sorry, I cut you off. No, no, no.
You're scarred for the first interview. You're scarred for the first interview and I'm roasting you. I am, dude.
I will never talk. Yeah, go. Poor guy.
You caught me in a vulnerable state. You're good. Poor guy.
Hey, Ryan. You got it. So what does he do?
What does he do? No, I know a lot of publishers now who are all switching to the Legion or like GLP -1 type stuff or whatever too. Really?
Yeah, dude. They're like info. They're like, frick, they're jumping over to Legion.
All the top where I was going to say is all the top affiliate slash lead gen guys I know are exactly that affiliate slash lead gen. Like there are some guys that are very dedicated and crush and do like nine figures in lead gen and that's all they do. But like the guys that kind of like test the different offers and what's hot in certain times and like do that, they're usually are like willing to test and kind of offer jump a little bit.
Um, I literally remember we were sitting, I flew out as a funny story. I flew out to affiliate Southwest. That's in.
and uh there's a cigar lounge across the street from um encore and so we went across the street we're hanging out this cigar lounge and it's me and like one of my like forever good friends and then these two affiliate guys that i used to know that like help them with random stuff came in we're sitting down next to each other and i was like oh as a side quest i'm trying to crack this youtube ad to clickbank offer through pre -sell like i was just like trying to learn different things and softwares and i like just go on side quests and do that of course random So I'm spending like a thousand bucks a day maybe.
And it's making like 900 bucks to like 1200 bucks. Like it just can't crack it. And most people, I'm an idiot and I scale too high like to test instead of doing like $100 budgets.
And then once you get to whatever. So I'm testing this thing, testing this thing. They're like, oh, send us that.
Like send us that. Like let's try and let's try and crack it together. And then we can like break off percents and do this whole thing.
These guys ran up and were like the number one affiliate on this thing. Using MetaTraffic, using MyLander, like a dupe of my pre -sell and using one of my, or two of my creatives and then like a bunch they made. And they literally cracked and did like 800 and something grand on the thing.
And like the next like two to three weeks, like ripping on ClickBank. So it's like these lead gen guys that it's all about like how they can do the paid side of things, which is. creative which is media buying which is all stuff like plugging it all together but because they had the skill of being able to like iterate quickly and like split test across this and know like find pockets and like just something that i don't actively do these guys are like 10 year plus media buyers that are just savages in lead gen and then they'll just play around an affiliate and they're like oh cool we ran up this brand new clickbank account to like top tier they got their little platinum award so i guess it was over a million they did because they got the platinum thing in like a month And I'm like using the same offer that I was put like just crazy.
And then I have like a channel that sends them like, you know, shadow offer. I think your guy talked about that, but like shadow offers that don't exist. And like you get whitelisted for all this stuff.
And it's just like, so I don't even. They work on the lead gen. They work on affiliate.
It's a lot of, it's just the. Yeah. Cause they can push the traffic.
They like, I like what Jordan said. He was like, we're in the media business. and the problem media business sometimes the media changes or goes away or how people consume media so like there's a lot of ups and downs but like and one thing that's cool i thought was sick is like one of his business partners started studying their hyros and seeing like the hours of the day where there was like more transactions and then it would just increase spend during those hours and lower it down like just little things like that where it's like a part yeah i used to go out to dinner with a guy in puerto rico good friend and he would we'd be sitting there, we're having dinner and he's sitting and he would take out his laptop and he would go, they were in red track and he would go and he'd switch all the funnels to like A to B, all A to B, like really quick.
Or he had this thing on his phone because it's like so not optimized. And what he was doing was shifting over the funnels to be based on the call center hours to go to a different like form thing so that during off hours, there's like drip traffic that even though they don't, that would go to a form instead of a call, which is like simple and like concept, but like just something people don't do and like pick up a couple grand.
And it's like those stacked across is 50, a hundred plus a month in like, you know, where you can squeeze more dollars on like, it's just crazy. Like, and they would, they would shut off hours before, like they had everything else optimized, but it was just that additional ad or an additional route that was like, what? Like just smart guys.
So I wish I could have been reborn and had a new personality type. I wish I was born with that type of like, I think I, I think I would thrive in that. I've never made a crack.
I've never, I've never been. disciplined enough to like stick to one. I've always like this as core instead of like, I've gone on so many side quests of doing that.
And probably like those guys prove like you're this close to like tweaking it and hitting it. And I've never made it work like above like five or 10 grand a day, like ever. So, um, back to the software, right.
Or I'm sorry. Wait, which one is this? This is the million dollar a month.
That is a one to two LTV. LTV is probably capped. I don't believe that first off.
Um, But if we're gonna move under that assumption move the low ticket, maybe it could be challenged It could be webinar mid ticket direct to cart. It could be like there's a lot of different ways It's like I would just like funnel hack somebody who's in your space and doing it and just literally run their Acquisition type is what I mean by funnel hacking like how they have their pages structured how they have their offer Like what type of thing are they running and then do it in your way?
Like I don't you know, no direct reps by any means but I would do that So yeah, you just need to figure out that and or the traffic source. So if you're saying it's because you're running on Meta and it's XYZ, is there an affiliate partnership land where it's half the CPA and it's consistent enough that it can feed?
Is there a way that you can do XYZ on organic? Like, you know, the trader guys, for example, like the ones that really crush do a ton of big organic presence and feed that way. So their acquisition cost is extremely low.
So, yeah. Have you guys implemented culture tactics like daily stand -ups, etc? How's that going?
You answer this one for yours, then I'll answer Do you guys do anything right now with the main offer that you're running for staying like daily? Yeah, I mean just like call me jump on dynamic culture touch points. We are ever just cooking Well, here's the biggest ending because like identity like empowerment of the team.
I think that's what the biggest thing Just like me step against the role of what do they want from this individually? And how can I like? empower them to achieve that through what we're doing.
So I've had to step up in that practically. I mean, I suck at doing meetings. We're super random.
We just jump on. Hey, things look good. It's kind of OK.
All right, guys, get back to it. I used to hate calls, but then I realized, like, I found love for it, realizing my strength in it. And so now we're stepping into a better structure where it's just math.
Like we were talking, Ryan, like, OK, just right now it's like. let's just play the math game until the math breaks or until there's a kink in it and then we'll figure out the solution to it so we're just like all right how many we need we're doing ascension models so we're like how many calls can we take this week great all right all right add marketing yeah yeah where's the pinch where's the pitch where's all right so we're spending so we we increase spend we need to send emails we just send a text like fill it up and then if we're too full okay well shoot do we need like is there a quality issue do we hire more people and then we'll just like go make sure the feedback especially the low ticket the feedback loop between front end and back end needs to be very close there needs to be somebody who is like the source of truth for both sides not like your whole sales team coming in and being like yeah man the leads they don't have any money it's like shut up like i don't believe that um and so i don't know just basic stuff then we just assign roles so yeah not much culture because we're just like in founder mode and average is dialed on this and we're sprinting and scaling a brand new brand so it's like
just go run go quick and then we'll figure out culture later yeah 100 um ours is ours has changed so many times uh to be honest and like we had a call last week we were talking about doing it on the c -suite like leadership level of doing it daily um i do a daily with product people fulfillment it's like that's like one person one role and i do a daily there it's also one of the like a co -owner so i do that daily um marketing meets daily sales meets daily and fulfillment meets daily but they don't all meet together daily so uh i know iman and those guys have shared that they they do a c -suite daily which is cool i think i think it's actually a big lift it's just like those are also like a little bit more founder mentality like young crushing go go go which like i like um we have two c -suites a week so we have a tuesday that's kind of like a little bit deeper and then like a thursday touch point one um But yeah, and then we have like obviously all the channels and stuff that are like there's a lot of communication There's dashboards that fire in there that everyone acknowledges and like responds back with and stuff that happens daily But we could probably get better at that.
I also skipped like seven of these on accident answering I did I didn't mean dude the rivers are always like jumps around on my screen let me hammer through some of these so we can get up to date any tips on fulfillment where you have to hire coaches how much clients per coach do you see and how does that look how many clients per coach and how does that look um hiring so yeah we have like a our chief of people product like crushes with this on the people side of it um there are different models There are a lot of different models.
There's like one to one there's there's one too many So there's like group coaching verse not I know people in the fitness space that do 250 to 300 clients per coach I know people who use a lot of AI I know people who just have like community managers and then it's info based and then like question and answer So it's like basically just based on the volume of that same thing with group coaching calls one -to -one gets a little bit more difficult but like again it's like how much you use ai or how much templated stuff is uh or how their role is like tightened um i've you know again i'm just gonna give you example it's like 50 do it what 150 one like we have one like we hired we just hired a customer success person and like that allows us to roll like 50 one -on -one like or one -on -one client so it's all very personalized so yeah 50 yeah i've heard of people at 50 i've heard of people at 100 and between there is kind of like the zone for one to one i've heard that's where we land in there um and then i've heard the 100 to 250 but fulfillment has to change like deliverable has to directly change in some way some people still charge the same thing i don't know i don't really like live in that and it's also like market dependent and all that but yeah so kind of across there um a lot of funny comments quiz funnel do you have any quiz funnels going speaking of going
ever since hanging out with you i stopped launching new funnels like i swear i want to all the time i'm like i want to put a quiz in front of our low ticket to see like we had talked about but it's like there's no point to because the low ticket is like 18 cpa yeah you're good yeah yeah you don't need to add some friction i wanted to break but like part of me is like because i have a marketing team you're an 18 cpa or net cpa like just to get a front -end purchase, like across the board.
It costs $15 in ads or it costs $50 in ads and you have a $22 or what is it? No, it costs like, what the, I'm confused. Like I spent, we spend across the board, we divide how many purchases, how much we had ad spend, $18.
You're not adding back the AOV? Not adding back the AOV. Good for you.
Our AOV is $32, $32, $32. You're making money? Mm -hmm.
Good, but it's not like lower. We're not like we increase spend we see obviously Go down, but it's like we haven't been lower than my hammer it point. Oh Yeah, I need my freaking sales team to be able to take that's not the whole point We're sitting there every day and it's like things look beautiful and also like the front -end page needs to be optimized more I'm thinking about doing advertorial because right now what happens is with our offer I can tell we're getting a lot of curiosity clicks, but the clicks are so cheap that it doesn't affect our economics yet but i'm like i'd want to capitalize on those curiosity clicks who are looking for more of a payoff education wise because if they're clicking like down to add it like getting a lot of curious i feel like we're getting more curiosity clicks who want to learn like what is the problem what is the solution but they're getting to the page they're hit with like a classic kind of like allen style page where it's like yeah paid product and then they're probably like what the frick i thought you're going to teach me something so imagine if i had that bridge page which is a little more editorial
like a blog need to pay off and then it's like goes over we may see a lift there because our clicks are so low so that's like a future test but we haven't done any zero zero to our page except for the call part so i can't like i'm not going to switch from it until it breaks yeah that's all though um our quiz wise We had it like slotted for like two months to do and it just was like oh what software we're gonna use and what's this and it's kind of like the bureaucracy like corporate mode not founder startup quick mode like you were talking about and it was like Very kind of frustrating and then we got we've built like a custom They built a custom one like on a bit and it was ugly but it was like just to prove concept and it just kind of was like Not the vibe and it wasn't really working and we were using it as like a like a pre -sale kind of too low ticket And then we got didn't work and then we i just got one the other i got perspective the other morning because i was talking to those guys and i got perspective and i was like i just want to play with this and in like 25 minutes i built out the entire thing is a dupe pretty works redirects route like all the stuff and like on brand all good uh and we launched that one and it was like a little bit less but i was just like tested just duping it and then now they're building out like some actual like proper ones in there to test and
Is it because the intent, that cost per click for that intent to quiz is cheaper than the cost of intent to get to a buyer? Yeah, right. It's kind of like the difference.
It's like if you choose... if you change stuff at the ad level you have the opportunity to have a decrease like higher yeah lower cost per click because they're going to do a quiz you have that opportunity if you don't change anything the only thing is you're thinking the intent and like how you frame them to through the quiz and then like oh it's customizing your xyz and if you actually are customizing and sending them to different things that fit them better it's like the market match like you have there's a lot of opportunities there it's like where you can get lower here yeah it's like it's the hormones concept you have a better offer it's like everything comes down across the board and then goes up across the board so i don't know um we haven't cracked it yet we are we haven't really properly tested it yet so it's like there's some good info products that rip it that do like a hybrid that do like basically that plus like a forced consumption after um that will then direct to cart so it's like quiz route to their specific thing
consumption forced on xyz vsl that fits them based on their answers and then direct to cart so it liquidates better instead of like then having them do app and booking and stuff like that so it's like yeah it's just like multi -layer so no we haven't had ours work yet but like i'm pretty i'm pretty pro that same thing with like advertorials if we're gonna like Again, I've heard that it doesn't work.
I don't know. There is direct to cart low ticket info. I think it would work with, which depends on how it's framed.
We haven't tested it, but it's come up multiple, multiple times. And I actually just found people who are making it work based to my understanding. So I don't know.
I'll talk about similar market. Yeah. Kind of like similar, similar deliverable, like deliver, like digital ticket or the high ticket low.
Okay. because yeah you're saying that your hypothesis as of now is that advertorial solo to get info doesn't work in your market or the high ticket too low ticket in general based on the conversation you and i had and with that person we had it with that's like listen it works in ecom it doesn't work for info we've tried it in xyz way um i think there's just other ways you can kind of frame it maybe but i don't know that's just like an added thing that we still haven't tried um all right they are flying in and i accidentally skipped all of these there we go uh ryan yca over ff for dr um i knew people that were in ff i was in nhb plus when it first came out and he's a genius so that's alan sultanic's group uh ff and then stephan's group is over there um he did he asked me to reach out and i dm'd and then We had already joined CA like that morning before we talked.
I'm not opposed at all. We just want to be around the people who are crushing it in the game in that same way. Also, our CMO and some other people in the company were in FF at one point and got a ton of value out of it.
But it was kind of just like a new environment with new people and just like trying to like set the tone and like go through that flow. But there's nothing against that in any way, shape or form. One over the other.
yeah it wasn't really that for us and like if any you know i'm i would join all of them but like i don't think that's going to be helpful right now when the whole idea with everyone is just like focus focus focus like use the source of truth like do everything that these guys do until we have the same results or better and then you can try and find new information but until then back to basics i one thing i'll say for ff or nothing all back just like who i think it's the best fit for if you are like the personality type like cmo fractional cmo service rider whatever and you like want to level the frick up to go out and like deploy yourself into a company where you just learn how to think for yourself and like advance and just see the market in a new way i think it's great because alan always says like nothing all back it's like the bat cave from the Dark Knight Rises where Batman goes to that little dwelling community and trains his way up and claims out of the cave.
He's like, the cave is nothing held back. And the amount of operators I've seen come out of the trenches from there and now are crushing it for big companies, it's crazy. He's deployed some of the best operators I've ever seen.
And so the biggest companies. And so you see a cycle of people coming through and they go out, come through and go out. And so I think that's great.
i think in alan's private consulting 101 he's dealing with the big dogs like it's better to pay him one on one but like inside of fast forward you're gonna be on other operators for like in the trenches and coming out yeah he responded to something on my thing that was like at right now market rate would be like 20 or 30 yeah he gets paid good money well i just didn't know what he's talking about and i think it's like his hourly time like i think he meant like or he's a cmo he just became a cmo for a company he said in one of the calls and like oh cool He's a legend.
His write -ups in there, people are commenting, you're in the group. I'm like, dude, I've talked and pointed so many people to that group and to that job board. You almost hired me from there.
Look at us now. Luke was like, yeah.
Running a low ticket ascension with a 5 % conversion rate to back end high ticket done for you. How do you position a mid ticket down sell for those who can't swing the high price? Just as that information, not implementation.
There you go. Unless that's already what your low ticket. Don't say you're not qualified.
That's what I heard. I remember someone said like they made a mistake where it's like, you didn't qualify for this. So here you go.
It makes it feel bad. So you got to reframe like a good thing. Like it's good for the next step.
You have to like jam in between as the next step in the ascension. Scott, how do you ask a cue? Your cue's in there.
I'm just like going slow. Sorry. Oh yeah, these guys.
Yeah, we're raising 500K right now. Launched nine weeks ago and we just crossed 80K AR with zero spend. Nice.
Atta boy. Yeah, I mean, you're going to need to raise if you don't figure out the acquisition. The low ticket.
Or just not necessarily low ticket. Oh, sorry, sorry, sorry. I mean, no, no.
Josh, low ticket Gavin. yeah people think i don't do any high ticket it's so funny i'm like no literally i would be done without high ticket low tickets just a means to get a high ticket one day one day i'll get it what's the best mid -ticket offer to go with a high ticket 10k consulting one -on -one weekly offer what's the best mid -ticket hi oh chat support down so just you give me back a high ticket 10k like a down it's just like the same thing we said so like i down sell but if it's consulting as the highest price then what i do is i down sell like monthly so right now i have something i invented this offer called pocket cmo which i've given to people in other languages their markets and it's like you have a cmo in the pocket so like there's low ticket uh cmo or pocket cmo and people pay me 397 a month to ask me questions on tuesdays and thursdays like ads on tuesday funnels on thursday i reply back with the loom alan does fast feedback similar thing you send
in your chat, your replies back to the loom. Um, so that's like down self consulting. And so pocket CMO, I give it to this one lady day or I think she's Danish.
Uh, and she had like, got like 65 clients for that, like paying her monthly. Cause it's like, Oh sick. Cause some people don't really need an agency, but they don't really want to course they want to call.
That's cool. Yeah. Yeah.
I would say the other one is like, uh, is essentially just like the info version what we said so just not having the cut the so josh is kind of like oh you just get access via chat you don't get the whatever and then the other option of that is even a further down step so it's like um just the info so like i know people who sell like oh it's 2k here's how to do the thing and just like good luck and then the next step up is like done with you which is like with chat and all that and the next is like done for you slash more advanced done with you which is like personalization customization consulting one -on -one all of that so you can just like tear down or like, you know, takeaway pieces of the offer to get there.
I got to power through this now. I think I have eight minutes. What's one?
I thought I did. I'm wrong. What's one common pattern you see in people who win in term in info coaching in terms of their mindset?
You talked more people than me.
number one thing they don't like they don't overthink i guess like the amount of people the worst ugliest funnels the most basic like they are i think this is what it is they just are people that just they're kind of dumb and all they ever learned to sell people outcomes they want and then they made a money doing that and then they're like frick i need to hire people to actually make this more like sustain it's like it's usually those founder types are just like oh there's a problem in the marketplace and i found a solution that's sick and it started selling.
And now how do I make this like sustain and go further? And I was like, that's usually what I see happen. And then that's why I'm coming in and like fixing things up and like, okay, let's, here's how I take it to the next level.
So I think that's the biggest thing. Most newer people start out with is that also, I think they actually know what they want. It's just like any business.
They actually want it. If you want to call me, right. It's like so many people.
I have so many friends. Oh yeah. I'm going to get so many friends.
I'm going to do my own offer. Yeah, I'm going to do it again. I'm going to get back on it.
And it's like how I see people who haven't been to church in a while, and they're like, oh, man, I really got to get back in church. They'll see my pastor in public, and they're like, oh, pastor, oh, pastor. Man, oh, man.
I'm going to come back. And I'm like, if you really wanted to come, you would have come. If you really wanted to do your offer, you would have done it.
If you really wanted to crush an info, you would have found a way. So I honestly think innately some people just don't want it, and that's okay. A lot of people that have friends that are like, will be better as employees for a company or a performance like that's totally fine but there's this mantra like you have to do this way there's a shame to work for someone else or to be an employee or yeah it's like you do what you want because you will be happier you will be happier even if it's working for their company because the stress you're getting trying to become an officer where you don't want it you're not going to like it as much like that being able to say you're an entrepreneur and not feel a shame that you're working for someone is not going to outweigh everything else that comes with it.
So I think it's just figuring out what you do want and what you don't want to be responsible for. And if you want everything that's responsible with info, you're going to do it. You're going to crush it.
And if you don't, like some people cannot, they hate info. The thought of selling courses and info, it's like they don't like the responsibility of like actually having to help your customers succeed and like holding them accountable and doing it. And so you just don't do info.
So I think it just comes down to the basics, just like any business, either want it or you don't. at the core and then there's other tactical stuff but if you don't have that first then you're kind of cooked yeah 100 i mean there's i don't have much to add to that other than like defining what you want out of it and making sure that you're in alignment with that because the second it's not like what josh said you're just not going to want to do it and it's going to become like a burden so when like for example like people moving from offer to offer it's like deciding if you're just going to own in lead gen world or info world or whatever it's like own this vertical or i'm going to own this space and my offer is going to turn into a business versus understanding that if you're in just like kind of the typical info or digital world like with mechanisms changing every three months and you have a new offer and a new offer and like that's your business model and if you just think you're going to do it like once and it's going to be there forever you have to build it you have to build in the direction you define what you want and build in that direction and or you're just going to like
You're just not going to get the result you want. It's just going to be a different lifestyle than what you anticipated is the big thing. And then, yeah, I don't know.
Info coaching in general, it depends on where you live in the world of it. There's sales, there's marketing, there's fulfillment, there's ownership, there's all of that. But you can real quick get stuck in, like Josh said, fulfillment side of things and that's not why you did it.
You can real quick realize you actually... don't have anything valuable to sell people and like you're a consultant and then you get a lot of flack and there's like there's just a big world of that um i gotta pump through these but uh purely paid organic both um both a lot of people crush it on organic it's 200 100 500 whatever a month and then layer in paid in order to get there it's just like kind of a different beast but that's what a lot of top people do uh or like most notable people do but yeah we do both um damn here we go scott found it About to launch a low ticket to a high ticket.
Taking seven offers past 100K is my angle.
Our biz audit.
And access paid apps, SOPs. How would you market? Oh, that's what it is.
It's an hour -long biz audit and access to paid ads, SOPs. How would you market this to a low ticket? It's you.
I don't know if I understand. Probably not. That wouldn't be your front -end offer.
Because what we found, like, I don't know. So if you're doing paid ads, you're doing something else. You're fine.
But the amount of people, like, running their paid, like, these types of offers, they work when you have a unique angle for, like, how you approach ads. So there's, like, ugly ads. I love this one.
It was, like, there's, like, or it's a never -ending ad. So it's, like, ads that don't fatigue. And then there's unforgettable ads.
He's talking about, like, copying old -school newspaper ads, modern. So there needs to be some sort of angle. on your ad that gets them in the door to then you upsell them stuff later on like lauren portal or laura something poor sorry she's an og i'm gonna get roasted seven dollars a month paid ads things she had for years uh laura portal or something someone in chat tell me you guys definitely know who it is And she has $7 a month paid ads.
And that was her whole angle. She like price cut the whole market and got you in the door and she'd absolutely stuff later. So you need like novelty in this market to stand out because everyone's always looking for the next hack, the next trick to like make their ads do better.
So if you're just like, I'll audit your thing. It's like there's 50 people can say audit. And then you're like, I've done $100 ,000 worth of offers.
Well, great. I can go launch a funnel and say I've done a million a month and just lie. So like, what's your strategic advantage then?
Like people, there's people and you've spent more so they can see the same thing. So it's either how you price it or, honestly, like, which I wouldn't compete on. I would compete on novelty.
Like, how could you approach it? AI ads, that's a big thing, how to clone yourself with Sora 2 and, you know, pump out, you know, hundreds of ads. Or it's, like, you need an angle.
Like, the guy used to do, like, 100 ads with $1 each, and then he cut it off here. And there's always some new trick or whatever that you need for it to stand out. And so if you want to compete, novelty is your best friend.
And then once you're in the door, then you upsell an audit, implementation, stuff like that. That's one of the things I learned with my own offer that didn't do well at Cold was our clientsforfree .com. $97, I build out your low ticket offer.
I map out the front end, everything. I build it out for you. But on Cold, people didn't know me.
You and I had tons of results. Or they were like, I don't know if I need low ticket yet. Or they were at all these objections.
97 and like i don't know if i want to do this and everyone who's buying it already like gone through my organic and converted from there so i'm like oh this is just a middle funnel offer so we just moved it to the back and now we're launching a front -end funnel so like your offer there that's like middle funnel and so sometimes you can bring them to the front but in this market i just know like these offers because i've consulted so many media buyers try to come to me and they're like i want to do my own offers now and then i'm like what's new about your stuff I'm really good at what I do.
I pay a lot of money. Okay, let's try to put that on ads. It doesn't work.
And then some dude comes around, ugly ads, unforgettable ads. And it just rips. It's like novelty.
So I've seen too much data to think any different now. Fair enough. That's definitely your wheelhouse question.
Last one on here. Um, what do you mean by CA copy accelerator? Yeah.
C CA is copy accelerator. So CA pro is the name of the new one. And what are the best groups to join?
Uh, I mean, it completely depends on what you're trying to accomplish. It's not, there's not like a, what's the best group to join answer unless you know what you're trying to accomplish. And.
You basically just want to find groups of people or the main person that's done the thing that you want to do or achieve the thing you want to do and then learn from them. And you can do it free on the Internet. You can listen to stuff like this.
I mean, this maybe is a bad example, but like, you know, there's other people out there who have actually done some stuff that you can listen to. And then we chose CA just for that. And you said besides Allen's, Allen has multiple tiers, too.
So like the FF one we were talking about, I joined the middle one, which is the I think it's middle one or just the entry one, which is any cheap.
There's NHB, $5 a month, and that's Alan's. And then you get a Thursday call with him. And then there's coaches now for everything, which is pretty crazy.
They have coaches for every topic. So especially for newer now, they have more support for you now for emails, CRO, ads, Google Ads, everything. So every day there's a call.
So it's like a la carte. And then there's fast forward levels for those coaches, which means you get feedback from it more individually. So there's fast forward level for Alan and then all the coaches.
And so now it's like $1 ,000 a month to get any of the coaches' ones. And then for Alan's, it's like whatever it is, like his price. Boom, bam.
All right, guys. I got to run. Alan, send us our links.
We got you. This is what happens if you don't have a course to sling. We just sling other people's programs.
It's beautiful. No one can hate us then. Too funny.
We're just out here. You're great. I appreciate it.
On random Mondays to catch up. Talk soon.
The Hook
The bait, then the rug-pull.
Two direct-response operators log on for what they call therapy: a raw, unscripted download on a brutal September, a blown-up sales comp plan, and the funnel sprawl that almost broke both of their businesses. Thirty minutes in, they flip a switch and spend the rest of the conversation answering the hardest funnel, offer, and hiring questions their audience throws at them.
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A whiteboard walkthrough of five funnel architectures the creator has personally watched real businesses run past eight figures a month, color-coded row by row on a live Miro board.
A solo info-coaching founder audits a punishing $100M year of leadership gaps and burnout, then lays out a 2026 plan built on direct-to-cart selling, an 80% organic-bookings goal, and a sweat-equity deal with Whop.
An unscripted 70-minute live Q&A between two low ticket funnel operators, covering ascension, pixel optimization, and the pricing ladder that actually decides whether a front-end offer is profitable.
Two direct-response operators sit on a patio and trade the actual numbers behind their businesses: setter pay, application grading, spend cuts, and the leadership gap that shows up once you're past eight figures.
Two direct-response operators trade notes on the offer changes that took a low-ticket start to nine figures, and why most health offers stall at the same monthly number while a handful pull in millions more.
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