An unscripted 70-minute live Q&A between two low ticket funnel operators, covering ascension, pixel optimization, and the pricing ladder that actually decides whether a front-end offer is profitable.
Posted
1 years ago
Duration
Format
Interview
educational
Views
3.4K
106 likes
57 · 43
Big Idea
The argument in one line.
A low ticket funnel only becomes profitable once the ascension path on the backend, not the front-end price, decides whether the business actually makes money.
Who This Is For
Read if. Skip if.
READ IF YOU ARE…
You're running a low ticket funnel and want a concrete framework for ascending customers into mid and high ticket backend offers.
You sell a biz-op, health, or service offer and want to know which levers actually carry each niche (trend-driven claims versus personalization and mechanism).
You're deciding whether to add a done-with-you or done-for-you tier on top of an existing course or coaching product.
You run paid ads to a low or mid ticket funnel and want practical guidance on pixel optimization, native events, and lead-quality complaints.
SKIP IF…
You want a step-by-step funnel build tutorial. This is an unscripted two-person conversation, not a walkthrough.
You're looking for platform specifics on a funnel marketplace feature or CRM. The discussion is anecdotal, not a product demo.
TL;DR
The full version, fast.
Two low ticket funnel operators trade tactics in an unscripted Q&A: what makes a biz-op offer convert (a trending 'superstructure' narrative plus an ROI claim) versus what makes a health offer convert (personalization and a credible mechanism, not hype). Ascension, not the front-end price, is what actually makes a low ticket funnel profitable, and most businesses should sell the same result at three price points: do it yourself, do it with you, and do it for you. They also cover practical ad fixes: optimize for schedule events instead of opt-ins once volume allows it, only feed the pixel real bookings, and treat a 'bad lead quality' complaint as a pricing or downsell problem before blaming the traffic.
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The two hosts open with light banter about relocating before winter and 'September lock-in season' before framing the stream as an unscripted catch-up, not a scripted interview.
The guest explains how he and his mentor organically crossed $500K teaching a business-opportunity publishing model built on a front-end/back-end revenue split, then walks through why they capped enrollment and are pausing the front end instead of scaling it.
09:01 – 15:01
03 · OfferLab and the ClickFunnels vs. GoHighLevel Rivalry
They break down a new funnel-marketplace feature that lets any funnel insert another creator's product as an upsell for a processing fee, and trace a long-running platform rivalry back to a patent dispute over funnel cloning.
15:01 – 23:44
04 · The Info-to-Supplement Backend Model
The guest details a supplement test-kit funnel that lost $1.1M because kit returns and no-show rates ate the margin, then contrasts it with the more common reverse model of selling info coaching on the backend of an existing supplement customer list, with a brief detour reacting to quiz-funnel and form-builder tools in the live chat.
23:44 – 27:07
05 · Low Ticket Health Offer Strategy
Answering the first audience question, the guest lays out why business-opportunity offers run on a trending 'superstructure' narrative and ROI claims while health offers run on a credible mechanism and supporting philosophy instead of hype.
27:07 – 29:23
06 · Personalization and Accountability in Health Offers
The discussion narrows to what actually sells the backend of a health offer: personalizing the mechanism to the customer's body and holding them accountable to what they learned on the front end, with in-person retreats as the next ascension step.
29:23 – 31:41
07 · What a COO Actually Does in an Info Coaching Business
Asked what skills a COO needs, the guest describes the role as making sure marketing, sales, fulfillment, and finance stay connected, arguing most info businesses only need an ops-manager-level hire until they hit real scale.
31:41 – 33:59
08 · Navigating the Trading Coaching Market
They discuss a growth operator who only works with 'black swan' traders, people with deep technical edge and an organic following, layering monetization and community on top instead of running cold paid acquisition.
33:59 – 37:57
09 · Vibe-Coded Tools and the Tiny Low Ticket Challenge Model
The host shares side projects he vibe-coded with AI (a YouTube hook scraper, a debt-payoff extension), then both react to a book's one-on-one paid challenge model, agreeing it works for a first client but not once a business already has results to sell with.
37:57 – 43:46
10 · Optimizing Lead Quality, Scheduling, and New Markets
Live audience questions turn tactical: what to optimize a pixel for when opt-in leads are low quality, whether a working US offer should be duplicated into Europe, and how a cold email agency should think about adding a lower-ticket entry point below its existing offer.
43:46 – 50:14
11 · Ascension Secrets and Email Deliverability
The guest previews a private document of roughly 67 tactics for increasing ascension from low to high ticket, then both give concrete email deliverability advice, including sequencing automations by open rate and hiring specialists certified through a known deliverability program.
50:14 – 53:58
12 · Low Ticket Ascension for Service Businesses
They confirm ascension works for local service businesses too if the offer itself is restructured, then work through whether pricing should flex for a European launch and whether a $1,698 done-for-you agency offer should lower its entry price for volume.
53:58 – 1:00:12
13 · Mid Ticket Offers: Book a Call vs. VSL Funnels
Asked about mid ticket offers instead of a straight book-a-call funnel, the guest points to forced-consumption VSL and quiz-routing models used by supplement and bundle brands, and they run the math on a real ad account's 4x new-cash and 10x lifetime-value numbers live in the chat.
1:00:12 – 1:10:40
14 · Positioning, Personal Branding, and Sales Call Strategy
The stream closes on optimizing a new offer's pixel for scheduled calls over opt-ins, which brands are currently winning with quiz funnels, and a closing rant on how a single tweet or reshare can quietly deposition a personal brand in front of high-ticket clients.
Atomic Insights
Lines worth screenshotting.
Ascension on the backend, not the price of the front-end offer, is what actually decides whether a low ticket funnel is profitable.
Business opportunity offers convert on a trending 'superstructure' narrative (AI, TikTok Shop, Shopify) plus an ROI claim, while health offers convert on personalization and a credible mechanism, not hype.
The strongest ascension model for a beginner is do it yourself at the lowest price, do it with you in the middle, and do it for you at the top, all selling the identical outcome.
A funnel with a 19% order-form conversion rate can still 5x return on ad spend if the backend product ascension is strong enough.
Once a low ticket funnel is doing real volume, the ad pixel should be optimized for scheduled calls, not opt-ins, because purchase events on a high ticket offer are too rare to optimize against directly.
A pixel needs roughly 50 events a week to reliably optimize toward a conversion goal like scheduled calls.
A complaint about 'low quality leads' is usually a pricing problem in disguise. The fix is a downsell or payment plan, not a new pixel or new targeting.
Order bumps only help if they don't tank order-form conversion by more than the AOV gain, because the only number that matters is net cost per acquisition, not average order value alone.
A diagnostic test-kit front end for a health or supplement offer can lose money outright if kit-return rates and no-show rates for the results call both run high.
The fastest way to spot what's currently converting is to reskin an already-winning offer with a female spokesperson, since niche-specific creative reliably outperforms generic branding.
A one-on-one paid multi-day challenge model works well for landing a first client with no track record, but stops making sense once a business already has case studies and results to sell with.
Running the same offer in a new country works if the underlying need is universal, but the price should still adjust for local purchasing power and cost per acquisition.
A funnel capturing cold leads for an ultra-high-ticket decision, like moving retirement assets into an insurance product, needs far more trust-building content and middle-of-funnel nurture than a standard VSL-to-opt-in flow provides.
Free-plus-shipping physical book funnels still convert well and can anchor an entire ascension sequence into coaching or consulting.
Quiz funnels now convert across ecommerce, info products, telehealth, and lead gen alike, because audiences are already trained to answer a few questions before seeing an offer.
Publicly reacting to a competitor's content, even to praise it, can quietly hurt how paying high-ticket clients see a personal brand's positioning.
Takeaway
Ascension, not price, decides if it wins
ASCENSION PLAYBOOK
A low ticket funnel only becomes a real business once you build a do-it-yourself, do-it-with-you, and do-it-for-you ladder on the backend and optimize ad accounts for scheduled calls instead of opt-ins.
02Relaunching Low Ticket, Pausing Offer Publisher
A front-end/back-end revenue split, where you keep 100% of front-end funnel money and only take a cut of backend deals, lets you launch a low ticket offer to someone else's audience with no ad spend of your own.
Capping enrollment and pausing an offer at a fixed number of students, rather than scaling it indefinitely, keeps a teaching program's promised outcomes and support quality intact.
03OfferLab and the ClickFunnels vs. GoHighLevel Rivalry
A marketplace that lets any funnel insert another creator's product as an upsell, and takes a processing fee on every transaction, is a fast way for a platform to make money from transactions it doesn't need to originate.
Platform rivalries often start over a specific IP dispute and calcify into a permanent us-versus-them identity that outlives the original conflict.
04The Info-to-Supplement Backend Model
A diagnostic test-kit front end for a health offer can lose money even at real scale if kit-return rates and no-show rates on the results call both run high, since those losses compound before any backend revenue lands.
The mirror version of that model, selling info coaching on the backend of an existing supplement customer list, works because the customer is already in the right buying demographic.
05Low Ticket Health Offer Strategy
Business-opportunity offers need a trending 'superstructure' narrative plus a stacked ROI claim to convert cold traffic.
Health offers convert on a credible mechanism and a supporting philosophy instead of a trend, because buyers are evaluating a body outcome, not chasing a hype cycle.
06Personalization and Accountability in Health Offers
The backend pitch for a health offer's high ticket tier should sell personalization to the customer's specific body and accountability to what they already learned on the front end, not a generic coaching promise.
In-person retreats and cult-like group experiences are a legitimate next ascension step after personalized coaching in a health offer.
07What a COO Actually Does in an Info Coaching Business
A COO's real job in a smaller info coaching business is making sure marketing, sales, fulfillment, and finance stay connected on a consistent cadence, not managing any one function directly.
Most info businesses only need an ops-manager-level hire, not a full COO or CFO, until the business hits a size where those specialized roles pay for themselves.
08Navigating the Trading Coaching Market
A growth operator who only partners with 'black swans,' people who already have deep technical edge and an organic following, can skip cold paid acquisition entirely and layer monetization and community on top.
09Vibe-Coded Tools and the Tiny Low Ticket Challenge Model
A one-on-one paid multi-day challenge model is a strong way to land a first client with no case studies or track record yet, because it trades your time for the social proof you don't have.
Once a business already has results and case studies to sell with, a time-intensive one-on-one challenge model stops making sense against a scalable low ticket funnel.
10Optimizing Lead Quality, Scheduling, and New Markets
Once a low ticket funnel has real volume, a pixel should be optimized for scheduled calls instead of opt-ins, because there usually aren't enough high ticket purchase events to optimize against directly.
A pixel needs roughly 50 events a week to reliably optimize toward a goal like a scheduled call, so accounts under that volume need a broader native event, not a narrow custom conversion.
A 'bad lead quality' complaint is usually a pricing problem in disguise. Adding a downsell, payment plan, or DIY tier fixes it more often than changing targeting does.
An offer that works in one country can usually be duplicated into another market if the underlying need is universal, but price should still adjust for local purchasing power and cost per acquisition.
11Ascension Secrets and Email Deliverability
Migrate email automations onto a new platform in order of open rate, starting with the highest-performing sequence like post-purchase, so early sending reputation is built on your best-performing content, not your coldest.
Hiring a certified graduate of a known deliverability program, sourced through that program's own job board, gets trained-up email expertise at a fraction of the certifying expert's own rate.
12Low Ticket Ascension for Service Businesses
Low ticket ascension works for local service businesses too, but it has to come from restructuring the offer itself, not from lowering a headline price.
When evaluating whether to lower a done-for-you offer's entry price for more volume, run the full funnel math first: new 30-day cash multiple against CPA, and lifetime value multiple against CPA, before touching the price.
13Mid Ticket Offers: Book a Call vs. VSL Funnels
Long-form forced-consumption VSLs with heavy preframing are the model that works best for mid ticket offers, the same structure used by top supplement and bundle brands.
Quiz funnels now convert across ecommerce, telehealth, info products, and lead gen alike, because audiences are already trained to answer a few questions before seeing an offer.
14Positioning, Personal Branding, and Sales Call Strategy
A single public reaction to a competitor's content, even a positive one, can quietly deposition a personal brand in front of the high-ticket clients who are already paying it real money.
When launching a brand new VSL funnel, optimize the pixel for scheduled calls from day one rather than opt-ins, since purchase volume is too thin in the first 30 days to optimize against directly.
Glossary
Terms worth knowing.
Superstructure
The trending macro-narrative (AI, Shopify, TikTok Shop) that a business-opportunity offer attaches itself to in order to feel current and credible.
Black swan
In growth marketing, a standout expert with deep technical skill and an organic following that a growth operator partners with instead of relying on cold paid acquisition.
Offer marketplace / OfferLab-style feature
A funnel-builder feature that lets one creator insert another creator's product as an upsell or downsell inside their own funnel, similar to an affiliate network built directly into checkout.
Net CPA
The true cost to acquire a paying customer after accounting for the extra revenue an order bump or upsell adds. It is the number that actually determines whether an offer is profitable.
DIY / DWY / DFY
Do it yourself, do it with you, and do it for you: three price tiers that sell the identical result at rising levels of hand-holding and price.
Ascension
The sequence of offers a customer is guided through after their first purchase, moving them from a low ticket entry point toward mid and high ticket products.
1:06:10bookDan Kennedy's original consulting/guru course
Quotables
Lines you could clip.
08:20
“You can get away with ugly funnels, but it depends on your market.”
short, counterintuitive, immediately followed by a real $105K result story→ TikTok hook↗ Tweet quote
23:55
“There's a superstructure that's the whole narrative. It's AI, Amazon, Target, Walmart, whatever. That's what carries a biz op offer.”
names a pattern viewers will immediately recognize in ads they've seen→ IG reel cold open↗ Tweet quote
38:28
“A lot of people think bad quality is they can't afford me. Well, then help them afford you.”
reframes a common complaint into a one-line fix→ newsletter pull-quote↗ Tweet quote
42:28
“It's do it yourself, done with you, done for you. It's the exact same result, just how much they want you to hold their hand.”
gives away a complete pricing framework in one breath→ TikTok hook↗ Tweet quote
11:20
“It's like the banks. How can you be closest to the banks processing every transaction?”
clean analogy for why a platform is chasing marketplace fees→ IG reel cold open↗ Tweet quote
1:07:04
“If I post that, how does that position me? What do my exclusive clients paying five million a month think about me?”
the internal filter he actually runs before posting, useful for anyone building a personal brand→ newsletter pull-quote↗ Tweet quote
Topic Map
Where the conversation goes.
01:00 – 09:01denseRelaunching Offer Publisher and the front-end/back-end revenue split
09:01 – 15:01steadyClickFunnels OfferLab and the ClickFunnels vs. GoHighLevel history
15:01 – 23:44denseSupplement test-kit funnels and info-to-supplement backend models
23:44 – 31:41denseWhat converts biz-op vs. health vs. service offers
31:41 – 33:59steadyCOO role and trading coaching growth operators
33:59 – 37:57sparseVibe-coded tools and the Tiny Low Ticket Challenge model
37:57 – 43:46densePixel optimization, lead quality, and international pricing
43:46 – 50:14dense67 ascension secrets and email deliverability tactics
50:14 – 53:58denseService business ascension and DFY agency pricing math
53:58 – 1:00:12steadyMid ticket VSL and quiz funnel models
1:00:12 – 1:10:40steadyPositioning, personal branding, and closing
The Script
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What's up, guys? We are back, and we have Josh, low -ticket Gavin. How are you, sir?
We're doing good. We're doing good. It's been a good August.
Coming into September, you see the memes, it's like September lock -in season, and it's like, ah, I gotta focus up. Are you feeling that at all? I've been trying to move.
Well, I'm trying to move in, like, before winter hits. And I'm like, should I not move? Should I just lock in for the winter?
You should have moved in the summer. That would have been the true lock -in season, just, like, go to somewhere ice cold. Yeah, just go in the summer because then you have to move, get situated.
If you move now, then there's, like, a month of you not being locked in. So you kind of miss it. I don't operate like that.
So today we're just here to randomly catch up and shoot the shiz. Yeah, it's been a while. We have no official interview, any style, anything.
If you guys, I assume know Josh at this point, he's everywhere. And if you're here, I assume you've seen me, but we're just going to catch up, not talk anything too crazy private unless we do it on accident. And we're live on what?
X and YouTube. Yeah. Yes, we are.
Cool. Boom. Bam.
All right. Well, Gavin, all I see you talking about now, you relaunched officially low ticket offers. Yeah, we're going, I'm going heavy into just that.
You and I were talking about that because I was kind of torn where. Over the last five months, me and Mark Lack, I published my mentor, Mark Lack. We were teaching essentially the business model of publishing because that's what I do.
That's what Mark and I do. And we launched that offer organically and it just, it crushed. We ran it up, about to cross like $500 ,000 from it.
So it was, you know, just organically. That's nice. Oh, for Offer Publisher?
Yeah, for Offer Publisher. What's the ticket to that? $1 ,500?
$2 ,000. It was $1 ,000 at one point and we bumped it. But we sold the units.
We had like a live experience or 2K. Then we sold a replace for 997. Then we bumped to 2K and it stayed there.
So we did that. And I was kind of torn because for me, one, I've never taught like a business opportunity that I do. I've just personally don't do that.
But offer publishing was something I'd done for so long and believed in so much. I was like, okay, with Mark's credibility authority, I feel comfortable teaching people this, knowing that we can have a high success rate. So that was the first time.
But there's a lot of resistance that took. a ton for me to go out and like hey guys here's a business model because i just what do you guys teach i mean like i understand like the business model you teach but what do you go to market to go to market for a newbie we have them go find somebody with like 5 000 to 10 000 active subscribers email lists something like that that micro influencer creator uh and we tell them to start there so that you don't need to start paid ads this person already has an existing audience Uh, usually, uh, we're, it depends, but we mainly, it's like, you're either going low ticket to high ticket, cause that's what I do.
Or you're going to start with just a mid ticket and run just a promo cycle to sales page, uh, get the organic people who are hot in the door. But the winning method was teaching people the best way that I was a fan is going to people have an existing high ticket offer and do what I do, where you just build a front end. You get a percentage of all the back end deals that come from a low ticket funnel.
And you keep 100 % of the money that comes in on the front because you just dump that back into ads. So if you had 10 ,000 people on YouTube, which you're about to cross, I go to you. We'd launch the load ticket to your 10 ,000 YouTube subscribers.
Any of the front end money that comes from bumps, upsells, whatever, I keep. I put back an ad spend and I only get cut to the back end. So that's the go -to -market method.
And so we did that. That's like the Mosey model, right? It wasn't his initial one.
Like they get everything up. Yeah. There's was the other way around.
There's was, you get everything out. They got everything up front, like the first month, all the cash collected for that first. And then they got the MRR.
Yeah. Yeah. Which.
That was. Which I like yours, but. Yeah.
I was like, Frank. But there's clearly work. Once usually smaller months sometimes.
Yeah. Big person. But so we did that.
Then I was like, it's got to the point where we, we helped people organically. We could, it was like, okay, we do, we want to scale this. And.
Take it past a million. Do we want to make this an ongoing thing? And Mark and I had already set like a cap for, hey, we're only enrolling this many students and we're not going to fill the market past a certain point.
Because Mark and I were doing things in other places. Like, this is just a fun project. We're waiting for Mark and I to come together.
So you and I were texting. I was like, dude, did I just go all in? Am I publishing the low ticket stuff?
Do we keep pushing this? Obviously, I knew what I wanted, what I didn't want. And it wasn't to keep pushing that and scale and teach the biz ops.
We haven't officially posted yet, but we're going to be like, if you go to the website already and like enrollment's closed, but we'll probably have an official send off where we'll let like 15 more people in. Support for our customers still existing. They still have access to me one -on -one.
We still do a weekly call. So everyone in there is getting that. Oh, shutting down the front end.
Yeah, dude. Like we're not, I'm going to pause enrollment. I think I'd bring it back as a bonus.
I have plans to bring it back once I take my publishing to the next level. and come back to the people and so then but the thing is like whoever's in it right now they're seeing everything like i every week we go and i go on zoom i show what i'm doing with my publishing deals what's going on you should do like a 200k week of like closing cart oh yeah we're gonna do a big i just it might be this month it might be next month but yeah we're gonna do a big yeah we'll do a big thing we'll close cart run it up uh I just saw Alan Saltanek do the, he brought back Automatic.
It was, it was, I talked to him on why he did it. It was so fun. I'll tell you privately.
It's like, it's one of those things I should have told you this before we started, but it was so fun. I love what he did. And like, he's so fiery and he's so good at what he does.
And he knows he's like one of the best. And so he's just like, it was kind of one of those, like, like F everyone else who's like trying to sell stuff. Check this out.
And bro, it's a great product, dude. That thing. Dude, I remember I went through that.
I'd launched multiple load to get funnels before I'd ever gone through our Mac clients. But he like it leveled me up in terms of caring about the ascension a lot more than I did before. So it's one of the best.
I think he's a fast start, bro. Like fire. I don't use the template anymore for any of my funnels.
I don't know. They made their own funnel. Oh, yeah, funnel.
Template turned into other people's funnels and it's just like everyone kind of overused it, but that's the framework of it, not the exact template of it. It's good for a beginner. Yeah, it's good for a beginner, bro.
Like teaching like a newbie to go build a load ticket funnel, you have to give them something, otherwise they're cooked and they look like some of the funnels we audited where it's like, you know, they work. One guy responded back and he just did 105 or something last month. Dude, so crazy.
I see some ugly, bro. Ugly. Dude, if you're in trading too or that kind of biz op, bro, you can have the ugliest funnel in print.
I consulted a dude, never built a funnel in his life. He was doing ads to school. Bro, I said, go build a funnel.
I showed him an example of one, sent him a link. I was like, okay, dude, go build it. Come back for your last 30 minutes of consulting because some people come on and like.
that you know we charge like 50 i charge like 1500 for an hour and so they come on and it's like we're 30 minutes in it's like shoot you gotta go do stuff so i'll be like just we'll finish the 30 minutes later uh some people come back some people don't take action just disappear he comes back i'm like oh shoot he actually came back bro comes back with a funnel he's like let's look at the stats i'm expecting to see just terrible numbers just terrible like i'm ready to come in and just fix it i come in he's like yeah so we did a 5x five x row as like okay five to return cool how much what'd you net he's like 105 so what the frick i was like you just want he's like yeah dude and he's just doing low ticket then they go in the school group and he sells them a mid ticket for some like trading bot or something and it's just ripping and i was like bro he's like what should i fix i'm like like i was like bros keep running your ads the only thing we had to fix was order form because it was like a 19
conversion rate on the order form. So he's already doing five extra turn with like a 19 % take rate on the order form, meaning the other 80 % of people are just dropping off. And just cause we need to fix some stuff.
So yeah, you can get away with ugly funnels, but it depends on your market. Like I was talking to these other guys, they're ripping a biz off doing a million a month is when they stopped or usually the 2 million. Then they just changed like the angle.
uh and i'm not i'm trying to be vague because it's you know i don't need private about but they changed they just changed how they're positioning at the offer same type of product same fulfillment just scaled crazy and it's like just because of the the market you're in so i believe talks about that too about what about both of those things about the framing that the swapping out of changing of fulfillment and like is that a function of how it's sold and if it's not they're like cost savings you can have in how fulfillment is fulfilled right like yeah right info versus coaching like the margin difference and insanity so yeah i want to talk to you about what uh because you what when are you speaking next oh yeah um thursday i fly out and then friday i speak for the like This week, yeah.
Okay, so explain this. So I don't understand how no one, I've seen this happen. And so for context here, we're talking about Russell Brunson.
They just launched, ClickFunnels just launched OfferLab. And so OfferLab, the gist from my. Couple ads I've seen and talking to you is essentially the ability to use other people's products inside your sales funnel.
So Josh has Josh Low Ticket Gavin sell some low ticket thing, but doesn't have any other offers to have for OTOs or Ascension or anything. You can use other people that have published their products and allowed them to become discoverable or whatever as your OTO. So you can find someone that's the next path of Ascension.
If you sell a trading thing, someone else has a trading bot or whatever, and you don't have your own, you can sell it. And it's kind of like plays into the WAP land of like how they have discover and affiliate. and like all interconnected but i've seen it happen in i always blank on the name but there was someone who cracked that for lead gen um like opt -ins for lead magnets and it was like a dedicated builder and it was all like super optimized for conversions for opt -ins and then on the thank you page there were like kind of how substack does it now where it's like oh you would also be interested in this but they were like full consent opt -ins and you could liquidate your lead cost by basically getting cpa from other like other people so if it costs you to lead and there was five things on the page like let's just say you got paid a buck for each one of them and they selected two like you offset your lead cost but like so it's a pretty cool model for these guys who are hammering lists back whenever this was probably five years ago and now they're doing it with that which makes total sense like i can't imagine i can't believe it didn't exist before
Yeah, yeah, that's, that's exactly it. So it's offer lab is what's called. Essentially what it feels like, like Russell's motive, talking to him, seeing his videos, he wants to connect the industry.
And I think it comes from the fight of click funnels versus go high level. And it became like a, which you got to be on either side. And so I think Russell's smart where he's like, well, shoot.
There's always us versus them. Then there's always like half the market I'll never get money from. So he's smart.
I don't know if this is what he actually tried to do. This is just my outside perspective. And I'm going to ask him, I go there, I'm going to be like, yo, Russ, dude, is this why you did it?
But he's like, how can I be a part of every transaction? Which is so smart. It's like the banks.
How can you be closest to the banks processing like... in the processing business. And so he's getting into the payment processing business because the way he makes money in OfferLab is you obviously pay a fee, similar to ClickBank, for every transaction that's done through it.
And so what's nice is for affiliates like me and other people that are promoting it, we can also get a percentage of every transaction that gets processed by anyone we connected to the platform. I don't even know how it works. I haven't looked at it.
Yeah, because then they've got Payments .ai built into there, which I'm pretty sure is fully theirs as well. So you can have a little payments thing. But what I love how seamless it is, is whether you're in ClickFunnels, GoHellable, System .io, whatever, you can instantly add like anyone else's product to your funnel without changing much.
And then the product delivery doesn't need to be done on your side. So then you as the offer owner can still handle product delivery. So it's not like you're giving away your products and then like you have to install my product in your funnel.
it's all separate so it protects the boat but it's it's really like one click and so obviously it's new and it's going to get better over time but i do see it being good for a lot of newer people that want to start out like yeah it makes sense that it's like buried in the funnel but it also it's also just like natively could be an affiliate platform right yeah i think that's what it's trying to be it's like clickbank because you go to there's a there's a marketplace and Everyone has their offers up there.
You get a message to promote it. So it's pretty much like a ClickBank on steroids. It's like ClickBank that is easy to integrate anywhere else.
And so now Russell can help anybody, whether you're a GoHowl or a ClickFunnels. So if it works, like Nick Fisher was saying, don't bet against Sam Ovens. And I think Russell's another of those guys where it's like, don't bet against him, even though...
You see we're how big he used to be like he used to be like the Hermosy in the business world like he was Everywhere as like Gary the Russell Brunson like the mainstream and Grant Cardone and now it's like they have the new generation of people coming up and younger people do like Gen Z Gen Alpha they don't when I say Russell Brunson like who which is crazy because like I grew up watching his presentations like he taking his challenges, so Russell has a big opportunity here to come back and really just become a superstructure in the industry.
And I don't think the nice thing is he won't have to be a guru to do it as much. He's got to relaunch his books. He's got to relaunch it.
Dude, oh, he should. 2 .0s is a new tech. I would love Russell.
They need like some WAP energy. And they need some young, someone to make ClickFunnels like trendy and cool again. What's the beef with GHL?
So like they forever, because we're talking OG days, it was always like Confusionsoft and like they're big. head to head yeah you didn't saw for a longest time and that was like kind of didn't make a ton of sense in my mind because it's like they were a crm and like automations and they were just a funnel builder yeah but like you can kind of do a lot of your pieces in there but like even then you didn't really build in there but now it's very clearly like it's freaking all over digital marketing facebook yeah i'm not trying to be drama right now like i literally don't yeah i know i just i have no i have no bid in this i'm just saying like I see tons of people talk about it, and it's like, we use CF 1 .0.
Yeah, I love CF 1 .0. So do I. We use CF 1 .0 for anything that's direct -to -cart, and then all the funnels have moved to, like, other custom builders and stuff now.
Yeah, you go custom. But for anything direct -to -cart, to still have, like, the native checkout, we do use CF 1 .0. Yeah, I love it.
I've had funnels on Goi level for the sake of that's where clients have wanted it. ClickFunnels 1 .0, I built, like Offer Publisher was only on ClickFunnels 2 .0 to pressure test it. So I like, I hated ClickFunnels 2 .0 when the launch happened.
I went into it. I'm like, if it confuses me off the bat, I'm done. I'm out.
Like A event, I logged into A event, the webinar platform. So confusing. I messaged the founder.
He's like, I'm like, I'm so lost. I'm about to crash out and I'm pretty impatient. And he's like, just wait, wait, wait, wait.
And we did a call and now I love it and it's the best thing ever. click funnels 2 .0 is the same thing for me then people are saying it was good again so a year later i'd pressure launched offer publisher like the whole launch on a new platform built everything there and it didn't break nothing bad happened and so it won me back and it's it's been great so yeah i think the beef between go high level and them was just because go high level allegedly i mean i sent you the link in the chat of the lawsuit like infringed on patents that click funnels had of ip or something with like their funnel builder i don't know go high level pretty much it's very similar to clickfunnels original editor and they also have the feature the cloning feature where you could clone clickfunnels into the guy level with like just by clicking a box which is anyone could just funnel hack it was just crazy because 2 .0 you couldn't even do that yeah yeah i know So then 2 .0, you couldn't bring over 1 .0 funnel.
You were literally like, oh, I was so stoked when it was coming out. I was like, oh, we're going to move all these things in there. And it wasn't.
And I was like, I'm not going to rebuild them. Yeah. Cause now you have to pay a free answer to build it out.
And now they do have the funnel cloner called Bardem PT. It's like this whole little like extension that they made. So they have it.
But yeah, it's, that was where the beef started. It's just too close. And then go high level one because they turn it into a biz opera.
that's my opinion they made an agency biz op then they had sas biz op then they had everyone resell like sender it's like affiliates are cranking it and yeah and custom you could connect any of the api connects into it anytime any new yeah tech came out so anything open ai anything chat anything and then the direct integrations with socials so people could run ai chats inside there yeah then like you said the the white label was like was like they have to have i can't imagine the count of actual like user seats they have it has to be like yeah dominant and back in the day dude you could sell sub accounts for any price you wanted there's no floor so bad like yeah like 19 bucks a month and people would have like 200k a month in mrr at 20 bucks a pop like just crazy and people still do that like down low because you can just set up sub accounts for people and so yeah how do you compete like that's the ultimate marketing engine like clickfunnels had a really strong affiliate program back in the early days and there's a lot of affiliates made a ton of money with them but then you then now the tail end of that you've got a little and not just so i don't know again what do you think of this here i actually have people asking questions which is rare oh shoot
Uh -oh, did I break something? Oh, perspective funnels? That looks sick for a quiz funnel if I'm doing like lead check.
Yeah. Right? I keep getting the ads.
I don't know if I clicked on the wrong ad. It's so satisfying. It's so satisfying.
I feel like, yeah, exactly. I feel like I clicked on the agency ad one time and I only get the agency one because I know they do like different angles and you're dominating with social and like the founder. biz dev or somebody reached out to me and was trying to get me to do like a review on it and like i'm it looks cool it almost looks like lead gen to me though oh yeah it's more than it looks like i would never run info but if i'm doing a lot of people are if you're perspective funnels yeah dude if i was running an opt -in quiz funnel book a call funnel dude so satisfying it looks like a very simple setup reminds you of This guy who had something called mobilefunnels .com, I think, or phone funnels.
Yeah, I remember that. Ryan something, the closer dude. And you, like, build funnels on your phone, which I thought was sick.
I don't know if that actually exists. These questions are long. I don't know what's going to happen if I put it on the screen, but I'm going to try.
Are you ready? Yeah. Well, actually, wait.
I'm on perspective really quick. But this looks, I mean, product, funnel metrics, contacts, templates. Oh, yeah.
Haunted quiz funnels, right? It looks like it's haunted quiz funnels. It's agency, like literally local lead gen, which is great.
Oh, you think? A lot of work. That's who he targeted first because the owner was an agency owner.
And then he wanted to get into SaaS. And so he built this. And so he mainly, it was targeted towards agency people to start.
Interesting. Oh, here we go. Here's the real question.
Pricing. Top tier. 30 ,000 visitors a month.
Why would you, I don't get the fee. I don't get that because now I'm not going to want to sign up. Cause what if I'm pushing?
So 30 ,000. Yeah. It's 300 bucks a month for 30 ,000 for 30 ,000 visitors, but I'm sure it goes to enterprise or like uncapped.
I just wish it said. Is it only on unique page visits? I have no idea.
Cause imagine that, like what if I'm pushing people back? Did you see me talk about the Hayflow thing? We want to use it so bad.
Yeah, I tried setting up Hayflow. I got to cancel. 1 ,000 responses a month is 230.
Boom. That's like a day. That's like, that's done, dude.
Yeah, you already capped out. But 20 Hayflows, and it's like, who's running that? Thanks for reminding me.
I got to cancel my plan, dude. yeah so i don't know someone needs to build one that's just uncapped or has like some throttle like vitalitic style where like you go into over it i'm sure these do it's just it's not clear enough on the front and like in all fairness probably most people aren't looking to do that or at that those tiers but it gets a little frustrating yeah i think at that point why don't you just type for me like custom yeah yeah um all right so questions in the chat Yeah, what do we got?
I see something. You explain the info to supplement the backend model. What does it look like?
Any opportunities you see in the health and wellness space, maybe peptides or longevity. Yeah. I mean, it's basically, you're just selling your customers more things.
So a lot of people do it with affiliates or with like partnerships. So we even tried one last year. I have a video where I talk about this, where we lost a million, like 1 .1 million on this last year because we were paying for test kits.
So like a lot of these. Let me back up a second. A lot of these supplement -style companies or whatever, they do a test kit in the front end.
So like a 10XL or like a whatever, they do a test kit, cost $100, cost $300, cost whatever in that range. You do the test kit, you buy it, direct to cart, comes to your house, you pee on the stick or you take your blood or you whatever do, you swab or something, you send it back, they get on a phone call with you to go over your results and they sell you something.
And they sell you X amount of supplements, they sell you info coaching, they do whatever, right? So when doing that, We tried to bolt that onto the back of our business model, which is essentially already the back of their business model.
And just to do the supplement part, and we're paying whatever the number was, call it $200 just for easy math. We're paying that for every new customer that comes in. So it's right off the rip.
And then it was sending them a kit. Now, the issue was the funnel. The issue was you pay $200 for this kit.
50 % of the people are returning the kit. So you're burning right there, like just right off the rip. 50 % return the kit.
Of the people who return the kit. 70 % show for the call of the people who show for the call 20 % close of the people like you'd net net all this math all the way backwards and it just like we were getting railed and it just the math didn't math and the goal was it was going to be this big MRR machine and this whole thing now we're talking about going the direction of in -house and building this out correctly but it's huge and then there's other people so where's that guy's question vice right yeah vice um the other one the other part of that is a lot of people are doing that flipped So the other way to do that is basically what I just said.
So you start with direct to cart and you go info coaching backend. So there are huge companies right now in the tens of millions a month that are basically doing it off of backend of supplement companies and selling them mid and high ticket info coaching that are specific to the thing. So taking a supplement like.
create protein or create gummy or something bad example but let's say and then they're selling them you know strength training coaching on the back end to that customer list because they're already in that demo and like they're at that icp so people are doing both sides but yeah peptides longevity i don't have any specific examples of what the offer is but like yeah do we have like 50 questions right now this is thick dude everyone's awake i guess we got to start doing these later in the day 7 p .m on a tuesday because everyone's freelancers are operators so i guess they're like just finishing all their work Are there specific strategies or elements that are essential for low ticket funds in the health niche, but not typically in BizOp?
That's you.
They're essential for low ticket health.
Personalization, I would say. BizOp, you hit them with claims. There's a superstructure that's the whole narrative.
So it's like AI, Amazon. Target, Walmart, I don't know, whatever. That's what carries a biz op offer.
Whatever's trending, the superstructure, as Alan calls it, carries it. It could be Facebook, social media marketing. Social media was the superstructure.
TikTok, shop. You start to notice the offers. Shopify, that's the superstructure.
Then there's a process that taps the superstructure that created the opportunity, right? Business opportunity means something emerged, something new. is available there's an opportunity for money from it so it's superstructure claims which you shouldn't be making claims um you i don't yeah our funnels we will sell like case studies so we'll say see what we've done and decide if this is the business you want so if i already biz op that's the type of front -end offer we run is a paid case study behind the scenes uh type of like product um but that's usually what makes something carry now with health what i've noticed is on the front end it's more so not really a superstructure but there needs to be a narrative or a philosophy that supports the mechanism like that's why you see people like there's this molecule in your freaking neck that if you optimize it you'll lose weight like in your chin right like they they zoom in there there's always something you're activating in your freaking body
That no one's talking about. And everyone's, that's usually what's happening. Or, you know, you could be very holistic, which I know a lot of companies in the health market, which you, Ryan, and you're in the health -ish market.
And you're very, the offer you guys run, very clean, holistic, tried and true principles, non -claim. It's beautiful. Everyone should do that.
Sadly, not everyone does. But then there's the other side of it where it's these weird things. So we're running a, we're running.
health offer. I have a health offer as well. More of like pain relief offer, you could say, which I guess is your health would fit into that category.
And it's funny because you don't need as much, you don't need really any claims on the front end. You need to just have a strong argument for your mechanism, the science behind it. And then on the back end for Ascension, BizOp is like, we'll just do it for you.
Or it's like, we'll coach you, we'll support you, we'll remove the creative thinking, right? Because these people want to make money easy. So you remove the creative thinking, whereas health...
It's personalization and accountability. So your pitch for the book a call and the high ticket is personalizing it to their body so they can get results faster or more specific to them. And it's accountability to stay true to what they learned on the front end.
That's usually what you're selling. And then the next level of the back end would be like experiences. So in -person retreats and cult -like experiences.
would also be in the back end. So that's the difference between BizOp elements and what makes a BizOp low ticket funnel work versus a health. But it's, dude, health is strongly like narratives, mechanistic, copy, logical, with a lot of emotional pain points, where BizOp is.
ROI justification. Money in a discount. Put money in, get money out.
Put in 1K, get 10K. What Zop offers is you knock every other business opportunity, why they suck, and then yours is ultimately the best thing. The little graph thing.
Everything else sucks. Mine's in favor. Everyone's like, well, shoot, that's a great argument.
ROI in. You're not wrong. I'm like, why is every ad just like...
how to make money without drop shipping real estate that they just knock, knock, knock. Instead we do this. I'm like, you didn't even tell me what it was, but they work.
And so, yeah, I think that's, that's my rant. Boom. Bam.
Dude, they're like a lot. Fucking guys. Look at you guys.
You're awake Tuesday. I'm going to start hosting webinars on Tuesday at this time. So yeah, that's a good call.
That's a good call. Good show. Roll on here.
Won't even let me. What about that? Three seconds.
Yeah, it is. Very prompt. Yes.
Quick answer. Yes. We have a friend, we have a mutual that is doing, let's just say two, let's call it 2X.
That's doing 2X on the front end on their low ticket and has a fully fledged Ascension high ticket backend. And so they're literally, when they're bidding their media buyers against each other, they have to do it on a negative cost per call because they make money to get someone on the phone. So yes, quick answer.
It's not always the case, but it's possible. Also the affiliate world, those guys, like the guy interviewed, he does it. They're fun.
Anyone on ClickBank does it. Anyone on any of these things does it, like do it. So what skills do you need to be a COO for a info coaching biz?
I find this very hard to answer actually, because I was talking to someone the other day who was a COO for one of them. Basically just making sure that all of the other core functions are happening. is kind of like a simple way to say it like not micromanaging but kind of making sure that everything is like but kind of but like making sure that everything's connecting into one because if you look at it from front to back it's like marketing it's sales it's fulfillment and then it's size and scale it's like hr it data slash finance like whatever right like and you're just kind of making sure that everyone is playing together and that everything flows from one to another and that this is armed with this and that the cadence of the communication is there correctly and that the things are set correctly bless you and like more so than anything but like a lot of the time with how they're so much smaller like it's like an ops manager, like a general manager style thing, like me included until it gets up to a size and scale.
And then it becomes more like COO -y. Same as you don't need a CFO. Like you need like a bookkeeper.
Like look at it like that. Like a COO is here, a CFO is here. And then it's like a director of finance, a controller, a bookkeeper.
It's like at some level, you only need to be like the bookkeeper equivalent when you start into this. And then like either your skillset scales or you need to hire a fill. It's one or the other.
And where your strong suit lies. And same thing with the CMO. You have a media buyer or a copywriter, and then you have a senior, and then this, this, all the way up to a CMO or a director of performance.
But it's kind of the same model. There you go. Trading coaching offers.
Marketers for trading coaching offers. I did an interview with Ahmed on here. Yeah.
He works, they specifically do organic. So they don't do, they have some layers of paid, but like, it's very, very important to them that they have people with strong organic. He calls them black swans.
He talked about in the interview, you should just go watch it, but he only works with traders. He was the guy behind a very large person and did exactly that model right there where he was like, you know, good friends with them. And then as they scaled and became, he ended up becoming the CMO over growth, learning everything from like zero to X millions that they did.
And then when that person, expert went on to do other things in other industry he then became like a growth operator specifically for traders and he crushes um he was at iman's event we chatted a bunch but he he has he calls it black swans he just needs someone that stands out that actually has deep technical knowledge has their edge has their space has their organic following and then he just has the monetization models and the community and the organic machine and like everything down back That's what I'm moving to like especially after doing this help the pain offer and just like it being a black swan were media at the bat just ripped on cold traffic and I was like All right, they this is sick.
And so now yeah, I like that approach any a strong organic. Yeah, that's I love that There's also other kid you interviewed who does just trading jace chase yeah i don't think he just does but he was he was an interesting one because he was one i just got recommended he's a young kid he's funny as heck guys i follow him he's like selling his like info coaching frameworks and like yeah like how to be a growth operator and then he's also like trying to go deep within uh trading so like go to the prop firms and like go beyond that he's like he's kind of like navigating he's shot out of a cannon like good for him but um yeah that was like a random connect but yeah he's If you see growth operators on X posting about their campaigns they're doing and big numbers, follow them.
They're doing trading. Almost exclusively.
He's the same one that got his first deal by saying he could make a morning meeting and living in Minnesota, I think, actually, and then driving to Arizona or something overnight. He drove straight through to go make a meeting because he didn't have enough money for a flight. That's so sick.
And then landed his first client. And like, yeah, I respect that. I mean, exactly.
I respect that. You can say whatever you want, but like, I respect that. Yeah.
Hustler. All the kids are every freaking ball. Any, the kids are all crushing it.
Miami everywhere, bro. I, at least we take an action. At least they're doing something.
Not sitting around watching videos and doing, being lazy, scrolling on TikTok. Um, I vibe coded the Google extensions. That's my favorite thing.
Really? I love it. I wanted to scrape YouTube, like for finding people to publish.
And I was like, I just want to get their YouTube or, okay, here's what we were doing. YouTube freaking headlines for ad hooks. So you like popular videos, just go to the search bar.
Then I just made a scraper. I told ChatGVT I wanted for a Google extension to scrape like a thousand of the most popular YouTube videos. They put them in a poppy AI and we like use that as like.
winning hooks or headlines uh framework so i like doing or like i try to pay off like like it was like a we're doing just a debt like snowball type extension i just want to say like click that's satisfying and i was like when i pay whatever and so i like custom coded that so i like google extensions so it just helps with little little tasks here and there like scraping yeah i have not built anything that's like functional but right now i'm about to do i posted about this but i'm about to do a side quest and uh not really a side quest i'm like connected to the quest but like i'm about to silo it and like do it myself just because i don't distract anyone and there's a lot of design elements let's say and i'm going to do those design elements all through that and just give it a rip and see if i can do it with the coffee at 5 a .m and just like go there's a lot of like checkbox things i've had to do so excuse me we'll see but a friend coded a knockoff high rose vibe code on like lovable like a just attribution thing here this is a good one for you oh yes i saw that dude the low tier price wait tiny wait tiny challenge i bought that book i saw that i literally bought the book and it sounds like the most terrible freaking model to ever run i opened the book you're supposed to do a one -on -one free
challenges or low ticket challenges with a prospect for three to five days and then upsell them into a high ticket offer bro i'm not spending that much time for free let alone for like what does it say it's a one to five day channel a tiny low ticket so it's a low ticket price so it's a paid one to five day challenge and an offer low ticket where is it like a yes it's like i i watched a little bit of videos he did russell then i've went to i bought the book and letters came the mail i opened it up And it's explaining it where it's like one -to -one challenge model.
So think of a challenge, but you do one -on -one. And here's the thing. I think it's a great way if you're trying to get your first client and you have no results, you have no status, nothing.
100%. Do that. But if you're at scale, like if you're trying, like you...
No, I just, I would never do it. I was like, oh, this would be cool. I'm trying to think how that worked.
But the one thing I got out of it that I liked was... for me because i do consult we do consulting right now and uh we do hourly like one -off calls but we sort of have some bigger companies that are doing you know four five six million a month that want me with their team for like a month to like sprint on a project and they'll start paying in packages and so that's a model we're going to or it's just like hourly blocks into yeah like hourly times but then adding for like i think the tiny challenge thing would be dope if it's still a process they're following.
It's built in accountability. Then it goes to recurring group coaching after. But yeah, I would not do it if you're already enrolling units and you have results.
The man has spoken. What? He said, the man has spoken.
Next one. I have 100K biz op coaching. Nice.
BSL with an opt -in getting bad quality lead. Should I use a new pixel or make a quiz funnel before the opt -in? More information because...
Yeah, how do you know that's the issue? Yeah, you don't. You don't.
So... What are you optimizing for? I assume you're using meta.
What are you optimizing for? Because I can tell you can get like a $3 lead if I optimize for opt -ins, but that's not what we're trying to do. You want to optimize for starting to like, ideally you can go to the back, but you likely can't with the volume you're doing because you can't get enough purchase fires on a high ticket in order to optimize and spend into it.
So the next one back and what like almost everybody who does those is optimized for schedule. So instead you need to optimize for schedule. And then if that's not working or you're feeding bad schedules to it, you need to make it so you only feed good schedules to your pixel or only feed XYZ into your pixel you actually want to optimize for.
So, yeah. And then also like, yeah, what are you targeting? What is the framing?
What is the XYZ? And like, it's not necessarily a super issue. I don't even know how you know on leads necessarily.
Are you profitable? Like, it's so funny. A lot of people.
I'll consult them. Oh, we're getting bad quality leads. We're having low quality.
And it's just because a lot of times they're reacting to a two or three day span where they just happen to have low quality leads, but they're still ripping and like high profits. And it was just a bad week or even a bad day. So you're doing a hundred thousand a month.
What are your profit margins? Like, are you, is it a big increase in the last few months? Was it just a bad day?
Was it just a bad week? Is this a recurring theme? Are they bad quality because they can't afford you and you just haven't added a downsell?
You don't have a DIY option. You aren't affiliating, bringing these leads to an affiliate offer. Like, I don't know, because a lot of people think bad quality is they can't afford me.
Well, then help them afford you. Like we were talking about with any enterprise software, B2B software, they never tell you what their best package is. You have to negotiate and like fight for the best package.
And they don't want to lose you. So then they'll offer you anything just so you don't leave. And it's so funny how in info, we think we're higher than that and better than that.
It's like, okay, help your customers, give them a way to afford you over time. Like I saw this one dude do a webinar. And if people suddenly bought after the car was closing, payment plans are opened up, he would drop like a $97 a month offer where if they stopped paying, they'd lose access to everything.
And they would liquidate a ton of spend for the people who would have never bought any of their financing, everything. So I don't know. There's just more info.
I'm taking notes. That was a good idea.
Wait, was it the $97 thing? No. Oh, which one?
Because I got credit where credit's due if I got that from somewhere else. I got it. That idea that I just had from what you just said well, I'm saying I might I might be sharing someone else's thing We're all sharing someone else's thoughts.
I was at the day. I have no original thoughts. Yeah Regurgitation at this point.
It's it's an hour a day for ten years of listening to other people talk about this Yeah, exactly. Just don't want to don't need some of the comments, but Josh I told you okay Currently lying in the US with LTF for the high ticket up. So wondering if it's worth duplicating in Europe Yes, if it's working, yes There's language things.
People play language arbitrage. They play country arbitrage. They play, like, all types of games.
So, like, if it works in one market, like, and the market exists in the other market, then yes. If it's, like, thinking extremes. If it's, like, something that's U .S.-specific, don't run it there.
If it's something that's human -specific, there's humans there, too. And, yeah. Yeah, people are fat.
People are fat all over the world. Don't worry. Sometimes you have to change pricing dependent though, like dependent, but also your economy, like travel, like the, the cost travel too.
Cause you might get lower costs per X, Y, Z in that market, but then it's also lower cost to the client because of whatever, like all the software companies that have like automatic adaptive pricing that changes based on the country, like all of that. So I think I'm going to do focus more on order bumps and post -purchase on click maxing of a, from the front end, since it's not expecting much success on upsells, you know, there's lack of credit.
Yeah, just run it. I mean, again, the economics of it. You just have to understand the economics of it.
So you have to know what you can charge, what it's worth, all that kind of thing. Is the market there? And then if it is, it backs out because maybe it's lower cost per this, but then you get lower cash, like I just said.
Boom. We run cold email for real estate agents. We got rid of our done -for -you offer and switched to a mid -ticket $9 .49 a month and added 20 agents.
But I'm curious, how would you think about an even lower ticket entry point? What does that mean? Dude, I'm getting lost in the comments, honestly.
Hop it up. Pop it up. Okay.
We run cold email for, oh, so they're charging $9 .49 a month to run cold email for real estate agents. And you added 20 people last month. How many did you add the month before?
You had 20 people. Why are we changing something?
Like have a downsell if they couldn't afford that, I guess. Like do like, hey, your first month's 50 % off. Yeah.
So just looking at the model, if right there, you're saying that we got rid of our done for you offer and switched it to mid ticket. So it doesn't necessarily mean, I mean, like there's operational complexity, so I'm not trying to say like do something necessarily, but like if done for you is up here, your mid ticket model is like over here.
I don't know if that's info. I don't know if that's coaching. I don't know what the deliverable of that is, but like you just traveled down that path.
So it's like, if done for you is up here and it's. 5k a month and you'll do it for them completely it's 9 .49 a month and you do it with them i don't know what your model is but you do it with them and then there's a 2k because if you're also doing subscription much harder to sell than if you do a 2k one time here's a course on how to do it for example right so it's like do it yourself done with you done for you you can have them all i'm not saying you should have them all if it's going to like make your life hack like terrible because you have to do all the delivery in these different buckets and it's confusing and whatever so like don't do that but there's definitely a game to be played the one i always use as an example when i talk about this is uh brook hitting they sell the 2k here's the info course on how to do it It's like 1K with like a 1K order bump.
It's basically 2K. You get on the implementation call, the starting onboarding call, and they're like, do you want us to do this with you? It's like 5K or 10K.
Do you want us to do it for you? It's like 20 or 30K. And it's the exact same results, the same thing.
It's like helping you get real estate for real estate agents. It's helping you get whatever, houses or clients or whatever you're trying to do. It's just like, do you want us to do it for you?
Do you want us to do it with you? And being our coaching, group coaching and personalization will help you or we'll do it for you. Or here's how you do it.
And here's a little info. or product, not info, or not little, bigger info product that's like full -fledged. That's what I do.
People are asking us about gaming. I'm skipping those. Load ticket.
Life's too hard, man. I got a freaking wife. You want to talk about leveling up X few points?
I'm trying to take my wife on trips. I got to spend quality time with her. Like, do you think my wife's going to look at me?
Hey, honey. Hey, I'm going to sit and play video games today. All right.
You know, what wife is going to look at me? And say, you know, I'm so proud of my husband. I love how he spends 30 minutes a day, hour a day playing video games.
Unless it's your biz model. Unless it's your biz model. Yeah, sure.
If you're making money and you have a wife who supports it, fine. But, bro, are you kidding me? Like, the one time I got an Xbox, my friends were all playing Fortnite.
I wanted to fit in and I played some Fortnite with them. What a mistake. I should have put that money into ads.
Should have ran more ads. Disgusting. Top three things to look at if you want to increase ascension from low ticket to high ticket.
You want to see something cool? I would love to. And so would us.
I'll leak some stuff. Let me leak something here. I can't.
I'm not finished with it because we're still adding to it. We have so many more questions. We got it.
We got it. What do you say? Three to five things?
Three to five things to look at if you want to increase. I'll just pop it up. you want to look at if you want to increase ascension from low ticket to high ticket okay so i'm working on uh are like all the observations we've made 67 things we've done optimize um and i have like a whole 67 secrets yeah 67 bro has to be 67 even though there's like 100 plus so i'll be i don't know like there's a bunch of things but there's things you can do in the product There's things you do in the actual funnel.
Then there's things you do on the follow -up. And then there's things you do just content branding guru game, which I'm going to add a section called guru something. But I'll, you know, here you can screenshot.
I'll leak that. I'll leak that, leak that. And I'm going to stop sharing.
So go back, watch the replay. There's a few of the 67. A few.
All right.
Assume someone has just purchased a domain, start a low ticket offer. What are the five most important email delivery tips you could give me and try and land in the primary inbox?
Go watch a bunch of YouTube videos where we talk about email deliverability. But no, we actually did move this one time like pretty aggressively when we were like fully baked on one. How do I get rid of this in my eyes?
The big thing to do when doing these generally is making sure that you have all the ones that are going to get opened as the first thing that you're like testing and sending with. simplest way to say this so like post -purchase as example is the highest they have 95 open rates and all that kind of stuff and high click rates and all that so like we were migrating from close .com to hubspot and when we were doing that we moved over the automations that were post -purchase first that were then uh like in order until you get all the opt -ins so because if you do it the other way around and you're just like oh here i'm gonna send my campaigns here first and get 20 and actually you're gonna get 10 you're gonna get spammed the other one is um email deliverability i think it's called the troy erickson stuff yes he has like he has google extension chrome extension things now that do like input things into your footer that make it so it's like more texts that are this based on this and like he's he's like dedicated his digital marketing life to this and he he has a bunch of uh youtube videos about this i this stuff's actually kind of expensive i think it's like five or ten k but i think there's a software yeah
Yeah, that's what I mean. I think the software is a version. I think you turn the high ticket into a software.
Here's a cheat code. You go to NothingHellback job board. You say, who went through Troy's certification program?
I want to hire you. You get someone who's new who wants to get some testimonials. You get them at a nice cost.
That's going to give them a big win. So they crush it. And you get the same skill set because they've all been trained.
He certified like a thousand people. They're just all running around looking for work. So go help them out.
They'll do it. This one of his certified students has been my email list deliverability peeps and has helped so much. I think she's actually hired in his agency now, but she was a legend.
So shout out Christine. His students are trained well. They're trained well.
All right, here we go. Follow up from the guy asking about the pixel or the bad lead quality. How can you optimize your schedule if you have less than 30 calls per week?
I think the pixel needs more than 30 per week to optimize. Try it. try and optimize for schedule.
And if your schedules are bad, it's just try to optimize for schedule and you can still attempt to do it. I mean, you want whatever it is, 50 a week in order to like get close to it. But you want people who are people who book, you don't want people who are leads and you want people after that.
Once you get to scale, you want people who are purchasers, not people who are schedulers, unless your schedules are like fire and you have that all built out and flow and optimize. But like, I don't know what your funnel is, but if it's a DSL opt -in, I assume it's lead. app schedule so like native also if you're not using native events use native events so lead submit application schedule purchase and then you can optimize those and because you're using schedule and it's not a custom conversion you get access to the data pool of all other people that run and use schedule so it's most likely to find people who are or have been schedulers in the past yeah I would try that or also don't run a VSL opt -in run a direct to app run it with a headline a VSL and an application button or a booking widget and go straight instead of gating it depending on what your offer is and what your thing is the reason you do opt -ins is because you nurture people meaning that you have all the emails and you have consumption you have middle and bottom of funnel stuff that can nurture them over two weeks two months two years or whatever you don't do it if not like Jeremy Haynes like you hate money if you have an opt -in and like I have an opt -in but like I do it for a reason kind of um or just I didn't do it for a reason
now i've sold myself on why i do it because i want to believe that there's a reason um also you guys have a really solid brand a lot of content so you have a lot of well yeah yeah super good stuff there where some people have no didn't have a freaking you look at their website it doesn't even rank so it's like probably don't yep delayed sales process um do you so many questions i know your youtube comment it's your youtube bro everyone's on youtube right now Really?
Yeah. Shout out. Hey, shout out.
If you're on YouTube, drop a one in the chat. Drop a one in the chat.
What about this one? What about this one? Do you think low ticket ascension can work for service business?
Yes. It's more so. Oh, yeah.
Go ahead. What do you say for enterprise? No, for service business.
Oh, service business. Yes. Enterprise.
It's an enterprise service business. So they have local locations. So yes.
Okay. Okay. Is what I'm.
purely that's justifying and saying yeah i was like do you know that or we just i have absolutely no idea i was just i was just confidently saying the wrong answer i found like oh yeah it's just your front -end offer needs to be personalized personalization custom audit things like that my opinion of it was that like so i know someone who has like a cleaning business for example and they were talking it's more about Less about low -ticket mentality and more about offer mentality.
So, like, what is the offer? So, for example, like, oh, you get a free cleaning for your first cleaning. And when they come to clean your house, it's actually they only clean your living room and your kitchen or whatever.
But if you want to do the bedrooms, it's $150. And then they love it, and it's amazing. You do great service.
And because of that, now they turn into recurring or whatever, right? Yeah, true. That's, yeah, that's the general gist.
So it's more about offer. What do you think about low tickets? Low ticket euro.
So that same person is asking, low ticket funnel in Europe, do you price in euro or USD? Euro, I would assume. I don't actually know.
I don't run in Europe, but I would assume. I ran, well, my funnels, I go worldwide and I just do wherever I'm from. So I just, not worldwide, but the big five or whatever, and it's always USD.
Okay. Done free agency with 100K TAM. I don't know if there's any other questions from this person.
He asked one down. He said. I think he sent it to her early.
He said, done for your agency with 100K TAM, current offer, $1 ,698. I found it. I found it.
Current offer, $1 ,700 set up with an $89 a month management fee with 100K TAM. Done for your agency with 100K TAM. There's only $100 ,000 people you can work with.
Ah, he's saying, okay. $50 per cross for LTV, taking on lower, taking on lower entry for volume. If the goal is $250 per month, it's 60 % margin.
Iman says these things stop at a certain size and then they become a crazy headache. And if you want them to be cashflow businesses, you stop at like 2 million a year. Yeah.
Cause you can do that until you get to scale and you need like all this crazy overhead and the churn count and like all that kind of, um, management fee and $50 LTV. What's your CPA? If your LTV is 4k.
Tell us quick Sebastian in the chat.
What else we got in here? Been seeing that $200 to $400 mid -ticket offers for web builders, meta lead gen. Thoughts on running mid -ticket offers instead of...
Let me see up front. What would be the best way to approach that? Thoughts on running mid -ticket offers instead of...
His CPA is $400 at the moment. The other guy. And you have a 4K LTV.
What's your 30 -day new cash? The setup fee only? And if it's a setup fee at $1 ,700...
400 divided by... So you're getting a 4X ROAS in new cash, and you're getting a 10X LTV, and it's probably... Or a 10X LTV to tackle all long -term.
Damn it, that's pretty good business. That's pretty solid. 4X new cash 30 -day and 10X over time.
And LTV is likely to go up, depending. Yeah, I mean, just hammer it.
I don't understand how the LTV is 4K. If you have an $89 a month management fee, that stacks up. You must have a lot of clients.
But yeah, run that business. Then you just have a major MRR game with great margin and just keep people going.
Nice work, though. That's fantastic. Rip.
I didn't answer this, but what's BAC? Instead of BAC up front? The call.
Oh. uh a running mid ticket offer instead of book a call it's been seeing a ton of thoughts on running mid ticket offers yeah um i don't know a lot about that we haven't really i've never run that um do you have opinion on that take it up front i've actually never run cold ads to mid ticket unless it's a webinar funnel to a 997 or 2k so um yeah i just haven't done it i haven't done it since a long time ago i haven't done it in a long time i helped consoles and credit something off her and it was just via spelled a sales page back then so you can that's funny what did i do it last i've only done organically so i can't really give you i've only seen it done well with aggressive long form vsls That's like the ClickBank offers are, you know, they're bundles.
They're like all that kind of stuff. Those are in that range of mid ticket. And those are generally speaking, long form forced consumption BSLs.
A lot of time with preframes. So same thing with like webinars, people run webinars for those, like as long as you can get the economics to work instead of, because you can go all the way up to whatever, 2K call it on a webinar, but you can also do more volume. And generally when you're doing low ticket, like.
Or, I'm sorry, mid -ticket. It's like VShred. They run a lot of mid -ticket.
Low and mid -ticket. And there's our VSL consumption. It's quiz to routing.
And then you go to different VSLs. Same way with the Golden Hippo guys. Those guys run forced consumption VSLs.
A lot of the top guys do that. So, yes, I would say do it. You said to say ones in the chat, and I'm lost in the sauce.
I had to ask my wife if she wants to watch our Strayla Sushi Sash. she said okay oh really nice because she has enchiladas upstairs right now so we're gonna okay we could get off we get off no no it's fine no no she's oh she said she's editing photos so she'll watch later uh how do you frame sales call protein enchiladas too oh getting huge in winter arc how do you frame the sales call post low ticket purchase b2c implementation onboarding anything like that anything that's like how you're going to implement the thing you just bought um sebastian cpa 400 it's a setup yeah we answered that we get about 400 to 500 and yeah i mean dude just scale your just scale it it sounds like if you have a 4x on the front and you have a 10x long term like gold star here's your gold star good job buddy keep scaling you go back in time what would be the industry offer you would make you go first i already have mine do i have morals or yes not you're your same human yes okay same human
His name, God -loving, good human. I would have kept running the offers I was running back in the day that I didn't scale. Cold messaging kings, profile funnel secrets.
I was ripping. I was like, no, Beyonce's teaching. Because Facebook just added a DM feature for pages.
There was no ban. And so I was teaching all the agency groups people how to do this. And I was just young.
I don't know what I was doing. But I was selling a Google Doc with a 30 -minute call with me. I was like 15 or 16 years old.
For $500. That was my info product. And there was no sales page.
And I was like, I'm going to change it up. I never stayed focused. Profile Funnel Secrets.
I love that. Great. See each other's profile funnels.
I would have just done that. I just didn't know. I didn't have the mindset.
I didn't know my wealth dynamics. I didn't have one in my corner telling me to keep going. I was looking up to gurus doing flashy stuff.
And so I was just all over. Good answer. All over.
Good answer. Should have stuck to that. I would do, gosh, they keep moving.
I would do, I got 80 % of the way there cracking a whole life insurance call funnel. And I was doing other things with my time. I was building main co, I was having a lot of personal fun and being an idiot and, and like became friend.
And like, but it was, I have screenshots of like the lead flow that was coming in. And it was like, 5 million in assets, 10 million in assets, 2 million in assets, like 300K in income, like they were firing in.
And the issue that I didn't understand at the time was that in order to make that large of a purchase, essentially, or like a decision in order to work with the person, it needed way more trust building assets. It needed way more, like it just needed more time. just purely more time.
Like I was running the same funnel model of VSL opt -in. So like all the lead flow was there, but like there were no campaigns. There was like only contextual stuff.
There was no campaigns. There was not enough middle and bottom of funnel. It was coming from cold.
And then you're taking someone who asking someone who's 65 to move $4 million out of their, you know, Roth or whatever, and move it into like whole life insurance. And like, it made sense and it closed. Like there were units, like it worked, but like.
Just the overall model. And there's guys who crush it with this and have these huge, like they have LMSs full built out and they have like, they run lead funnels to free courses and consumption and long -term VSLs. Like you just need a machine around it.
But I cracked, 80 % cracked it straight through, but I needed all the other ancillary stuff for it to work in the correct way. And I would go back and do that because the backend money is massive. The backend money, you're talking like high ticket over the phone.
No, no, no. I'm talking like. like ultra high ticket over the phone.
And then you have like ancillary services and you have like recommendations you can make and you have like money managers and you have like tax professional and you have all these different like connections in your Rolodex you can make. You can then own community. You can have a full mastermind community that's all around.
Like people have done it. They do right now. There's two that I can think of that I don't want docs, but like, so.
So interesting. Never knew about that. Next one.
If you launch a new offer of ESL funnel, would you optimize the funnel for opt -in or schedule the first 30 days? schedule depending but schedule i would say yeah i feel like that's just what i always did i got this went right to what i wanted even if i didn't want people on the phone and you can't get purchases and that are going to be enough volume there's like little to no way you're going to get purchases that are enough so like depends on your pixel but like you can optimize for schedule more or less off the rip in my opinion um but i'm not i'm not a pro at this nor do i run our own stuff so like i'm kind of speaking out of my awareness levels Heck yeah.
Jay said, what's the KPIs without them? What was his question?
I'm scrolling. Tiny low ticket stuff. Dude, I have no idea.
What do you mean? Like, I've never done one. Tiny low ticket challenge.
Never done one. What do you think? Who do you think is killing with quiz funnels at the moment?
Every telemedicine company. A lot of... Sorry, no.
I asked a mutual friend about e -com companies. E -com, e -com, e -com. Yeah, he sent some links.
If I'm thinking of the same person, but yeah, quiz funnels are everywhere right now. So it's, and people are used to them now and fill through. So it works in e -comm.
It works in info. It works in tele. It works in lead gen.
It works all over the place. So I'm so tempted to go bullish on the quiz funnels, but I'm, I'm not, I'm using them on the back in my low ticket funnels. They focused, gosh, don't get distracted guys.
New. Okay. Offer ideas.
Let me look at my notes. Let me give you some. I have notes that said offer ideas throughout all the years.
Let me see if I can give you one.
Let me see. Let me find some.
What other questions do I have in the meantime? Oh, wait. No.
Here. No, actually, I'm going to put that one on. Someone asked how you could structure a funnel for finding a wife, but you already got that unlocked.
Dude, there's like 15 of these on X, too, that I haven't even seen. Really? I'm going to start from the bottom on X.
Oh, look. Mason. What's up, Mason?
O -bump or no O -bump on a low -ticket funnel? Does it ever cannibalize calls booked? Yeah, so we specifically don't do – wait, you're asking order bumps.
Yeah, we do order bumps on there. No, it does not cannibalize at all. Order bumps are just going to help with your AOV, just give you an opportunity to do it.
Don't go too crazy with it because you can go like radio checks, plus this, plus that. It's all about how you're affecting the conversion rate of the order form and splitting against that and what the AOV is that comes through it, right? Or truly what the throughput is that comes through it.
Because it's like if you bump your, it's simple math, but if you bump your AOV and you double it, but your conversion rate drops by more than 30%, like the math doesn't throughput on your net CPA. So all that matters is your net CPA. So if it costs you a hundred bucks to get it, your AOV is 50 bucks or 40 bucks.
So then it's $60 net CPA. The big thing is that is the ascension rate more so than anything, but it's like drive that one down through AOV, which you can get through order bumps, radio, you can have multi, you can do the whole thing. You can even have big order bumps as well.
You can have like ones that really offset AOV and don't hurt conversion rates at all. And then still have your ascension. So I've seen like we get 70, 80%.
booking rate using it as a thank you page or like the oto one for the call when it's framed correctly um so i think that answers your question um free or did you have an answer for um offer ideas i want to know it's i just know for a long time ago where i literally just wrote down make take it like take every offer or winning offer and just make it female themed so i think that's like a really easy one because you just copy copy what's already working and he just funnel hack it and then just make a female spokesperson make a female even if it's like faceless like there's like these female coaching templates or just fancy branded stuff um dude that stuff works so if you want an idea what's winning right now make a female like uh lb shelby sap yeah um Tori.
Tori. She doesn't target female only, which is very interesting. She targets like whole thing, but she's another one who's like crushes it a lot.
All right. Another one. How are free plus shipping book funnels doing nowadays?
Great. What funnels? Free plus shipping book funnels.
Physical copies. Yeah, they're cool. I think they still work.
I think they're sick, dude. There's a guy in NothingHeldBack that only does book funnels and crushes it with them. He helps do the whole book ideation part.
Chris? Yeah. Chris.
Yeah, I know Chris. He does Amazon ads too. Yeah.
That's the power of niches is the fact that that person came to my head to do a book funnel. So if I did a book funnel, I would call him. That's so funny, dude.
Crazy. He owns the domain. Alan calls it market positions.
It's a great call. And it's essentially you pick what position you want in the market. It's not even, like people say category king, but it's like, he's like, pick just a section of the market.
Just a market and then dominate it. And like, he talks about that. Like every time I talk about low ticket, I talk about you.
You know? Shoot. I'm serious.
I know. It's crazy. I have to leave.
I have to leave. But let me see if there's something here. How do you evaluate markets to launch offers?
No. How can you explain high level? How positioning works in the Spain?
How can you explain high level how positioning works in the space? I think you just said it, bro. Okay, there's this Dan Kennedy offer, OG course.
Dan Kennedy, what a legend. Just the ultimate course and program and how to become a guru overnight. How to just be instantly well -known.
It's something on consulting bootcamp. I don't know, just look it up. So consulting, how to become a consultant.
If Sam Ovens would have taught that plus what he taught back then. game over it's so good so really truly so good dude but it's really just like so many people are afraid or you know what i think here's i'll see about this i was going p today all right and i was sitting there and so many times i've thought some memes i want to post or funny tweets rage things i'm like i want to post them today it was about positioning let me see and so i was and so i was i was just going i'm going i'm like But if I post that, how does that position me?
What do people think about me? What are my exclusive clients who are paying for consulting 5 million a month? What do they think about me?
Like, like not paying, making, they're doing that. And I'm like, dude, deposition to you. So many guys, you instantly deposition yourself because you just want like a funny tweet for a couple of likes, or you want to reshare something on your Facebook page, or you do something random, like, or you glaze another, your competitor, or you just deposition left and right.
Just like everyone who like. There's a point when glazing a competitor or someone you look up to helps you. And there's a point where it depositions you.
And so you have to be methodical about how people view you. And it's kind of, you can be obsessive and super unhealthy. So I have to reset and be like, it doesn't matter.
God will bring the opportunities he wants to. It doesn't matter. I'm an imperfect person.
But then you could also be super anal. about your positioning how people see you there's people in space they cut their hair a certain way they'll you know grow a beard they'll wear certain clothes what's behind them what bro crazy yeah i'm just trying to live you know what so i'm trying to live i'm just i don't care like i'm wearing this janky i didn't shower yet i freaking worked out got on a call some guys in dubai ripped the consulting call haven't left this desk and i'm like you know but i could be like all guru guys in dubai Yeah, everyone's in Dubai.
I thought it was. Nah, dude. Just kidding.
There could be a million people. Every call I take, everyone's in Dubai. I gotta wake up at freaking 9 a .m.
Rip a consulting call. All right. I love it.
Good send -off. The exact ones are hard. I didn't realize that they were in there.
And they were not moving into the chat. They don't go into the Riverside. So we're going to have to optimize that.
We should do these every week or every couple weeks. These are good. Yeah.
Dude, everyone, when I went to the event, it was so funny. They're like, dude, you know Ryan Clogg? So like, dude, you're popping up.
I was like, yeah, dude. Ryan's awesome. So this weekend, I'll see all your fans, all your peeps.
They're going to definitely be like, what's up? Okay, dude, I'm going to do like six different things. Dude.
I'm going to Daniel Fazio's event this weekend. I'm going to Jeremy's Q4. I'm going from Jeremy's Q4 to WAP from there, like, same weekend, like, Saturday, Sunday.
When's that, though? When are you in New York? I don't know.
I'll text you. And that one. And then I'm going to Cole Gordon's eight -figure boardroom.
And then Fisher's going to have one. Hasn't announced it, but it's right around the same time in Scottsdale, both those. And then South Africa for E -months.
That's all in the next, like, three months. These guys are probably so happy you've launched your own coaching offer. I posted about that and said that I was going to do that.
Not that I was going to do that, but I was going to do that thing. But, like, I have crazy opportunity right now, and I'm very likely going to take it. But I also, like, might just sit.
I might take it and sit on it. Yeah, yeah. And just, like, because I'm building.
I'm building. Like, the thing I was talking about, like, vibe coding kind of, like, that is such a massive thing for me. Oh, and extensions.
What a beautiful spot. That's the spot I want to be in. That's the spot to be in.
Yeah, I'm good. I don't want. I mean, I'm good.
I'm good.
You're great. I appreciate you. This is valuable.
I'm going to go eat my enchiladas. I'm going to go eat meatballs. I hear them right now.
I hear them cooking. Bye.
The Hook
The bait, then the rug-pull.
Two funnel operators go live with zero agenda beyond catching up, then spend the next seventy minutes fielding real audience questions about ascension, pixel optimization, and pricing across biz-op, health, and service offers.
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A solo info-coaching founder audits a punishing $100M year of leadership gaps and burnout, then lays out a 2026 plan built on direct-to-cart selling, an 80% organic-bookings goal, and a sweat-equity deal with Whop.
A 77-minute unscripted livestream where two direct-response operators vent about a brutal September, then spend the rest of the stream answering the audience's toughest funnel and offer questions live.
A whiteboard walkthrough of five funnel architectures the creator has personally watched real businesses run past eight figures a month, color-coded row by row on a live Miro board.
A rant-format breakdown of why time and skill stopped being a business moat, and the four pivots (workflows, access, taste, enablement) that replace them.
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