Two direct-response operators sit on a patio and trade the actual numbers behind their businesses: setter pay, application grading, spend cuts, and the leadership gap that shows up once you're past eight figures.
Posted
6 months ago
Duration
Format
Interview
educational
Views
12.9K
339 likes
57 · 43
Big Idea
The argument in one line.
Scaling a direct-response business past eight figures is less about finding a bigger offer and more about fixing unit economics one lever at a time, while scaling past nine figures requires learning to lead leaders instead of staying the most talented person doing the work.
Who This Is For
Read if. Skip if.
READ IF YOU ARE…
You run a call-funnel or high-ticket coaching business and want real numbers on setter pay, show rate, and spend cuts, not theory.
You're deciding whether to add a low-ticket or direct-to-cart offer in front of your existing call funnel.
You manage a sales team and want to see how application grading, AI booking tools, and outbound gaps actually get fixed.
You're a solo operator past $1M who's starting to feel the ceiling of doing everything yourself and want to hear what 'leader of leaders' looks like from someone living it.
SKIP IF…
You're pre-revenue or looking for a beginner funnel walkthrough; this assumes you already run paid ads and a sales team.
You want tactical short-form content or hook-writing advice; that's mentioned but not taught here.
TL;DR
The full version, fast.
Two direct-response operators who've combined for $231M+ compare notes for two hours. Ryan explains how doubling his setter team and raising pay 40% cut his ad spend from $500K to $260K a month while raising show rate to 88-90%, why low-ticket funnels expose creative weakness that call funnels hide, and how AI application grading caught that roughly half of applicants lie about having money, in both directions. Cole explains his pivot from being 'the sales guy' personal brand into a horizontally-scaling recruiting business, launching a pay-per-hire enterprise division and a licensed-recruiting brand for other industries as a hedge against AI eventually touching sales roles. The through-line: at eight figures the constraint is unit economics; past that, it's whether you can recruit, develop, and retain other leaders instead of staying the best operator in the room.
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Cole frames the episode as a trade of lessons between two operators who've combined for over $200 million in revenue, previewing a clip from later in the conversation.
00:49 – 04:41
02 · $100M+ in Women's Fitness: The Jump From $1M to $34M/Year
Ryan lays out his info-coaching business in women's fitness: a low-ticket start around $100 units, a call-funnel jump from $1M to $10M selling lifetime-access info at $500-$1,500, then a second jump from $10M to $30M+ by switching the offer from info to one-to-one coaching.
04:41 – 09:01
03 · Why Most Health Offers Get Stuck, and the Brand-vs-DR Divide
Ryan argues the ceiling people blame on call funnels ("$600K a month," "$3M a month") is really about offer volume and price point, not a hard dollar cap, and that the only other proven path past $100M in health is becoming a media brand the way Andrew Huberman could.
09:01 – 11:24
04 · The Offer Crazy Train, and Why Most Gurus Don't Monetize Properly
A mastermind story about Natural Health Sherpa recycling front-end offers every six months until they added a $3K coaching back end, tripling LTV; Ryan and Cole map where direct response, high-ticket coaching, and media businesses are quietly merging.
11:24 – 14:30
05 · Revenue vs. Profit: The Hard Lesson
Ryan walks through a real spend day, about $30K raw CPA netting down to roughly $1,400 after liquidation, to show how chasing revenue instead of watching net economics can quietly bankrupt a fast-growing funnel business.
14:30 – 18:26
06 · The Setter Breakthrough That Changed Everything
Ryan doubled his setter team and raised setter pay about 40% to attract closer-caliber talent, which lifted show rate to 88-90% and cut ad spend from over $500K to about $260K a month while keeping the calendar just as full.
18:26 – 21:53
07 · 150% Profit Increase and the Sales Leadership Problem
Ryan describes churning three sales leaders in a year, one culture mismatch, one poached by a bigger operator, and the specific difficulty of leading a team that's 90%+ female serving a 40-60+ demographic.
21:53 – 32:01
08 · Outbound: The Missed Lever, and AI in Sales
Ryan admits he's never built an outbound or cold-call function despite scaling past $90M, and is actively hunting for someone to run it; the conversation turns to what AI actually does inside his sales org today versus the call-review AI he doesn't need.
32:01 – 41:02
09 · The Hidden Calendar Optimization and Application Grading Advantage
A deep dive into SalesKick, the AI booking and grading tool Cole co-owns: automatic application grading around 98% accuracy, real-time appointment rerouting around cancellations, SMS confirmation outperforming iPhone-based texting, and a finding that roughly half of applicants lie about having money, in both directions.
41:02 – 49:46
10 · Why Low Ticket Exposes Weakness, and Scaling Organic the Right Way
Ryan explains that low-ticket funnels expose creative weaknesses a call funnel can absorb; both hosts compare notes on in-house organic content teams versus agencies, landing on using an agency to find what works, then bringing the winning format in-house.
49:46 – 56:12
11 · The Vision for 50% Organic, and What's Actually Hard Right Now
Ryan's target is shifting 90%+ of organic traffic to direct-to-cart to fund a leaner high-ticket back end; Cole names his own current bottleneck as never having been a leader of leaders, only ever the most in-the-weeds operator.
56:12 – 1:08:52
12 · Skill Evolution, Identity Shifts, and the 200-Units Plan
Cole works through a personal-brand identity crisis, being known only as "the sales guy" versus a broader business creator, then lays out the math: hit and hold 200 B2B sales a month and the company should roughly double within 18-24 months as it compounds.
1:08:52 – 1:21:58
13 · Going Horizontal Instead of Vertical: The Enterprise Pivot
Inspired by Eddie Maloof's horizontal-scaling approach, Cole is launching a pay-per-hire enterprise recruiting division for companies needing 10+ reps a year, plus a separately licensed recruiting brand for other industries like home service trades and healthcare, explicitly as a hedge against AI eventually touching sales roles.
1:21:58 – 1:33:24
14 · CEO vs. Operator: Building 9-Figure Teams and the Mastermind Circuit
Cole credits a dinner with Tommy Mellor and the book "5X CEO" for reframing his leadership gap, then the two rank the mastermind circuit (Iman Gadzhi, Jeremy Haynes, 8 Figure Boardroom) by price, culture, and who actually shows up in the room.
1:33:24 – 2:00:02
15 · The 120-Day YouTube Sprint, the 3AM Call With Iman, and Cole's Info Diet
Cole tells the full story of paying Iman Gadzhi $18,000 for a single onboarding call, posting daily videos for 120 straight days, the X post that took him from 300 to 3,000 followers overnight, why he eventually stopped posting, and the biography-heavy reading habit that replaced straight business books.
Atomic Insights
Lines worth screenshotting.
Doubling a setter team and raising setter pay about 40% pulled in closer-caliber talent, which cut ad spend from $500K to $260K a month while raising show rate to 88-90% and keeping the same calendar full.
Roughly 50% of applicants who claimed they had no money actually had money, and roughly 50% who claimed they had money didn't, which is why removing the financial qualifier question and grading with real financial data raised throughput 20%.
A low-ticket funnel reveals creative weakness that a call funnel hides, because a call funnel's sales team can absorb mediocre creative while a low-ticket funnel's CPA rises immediately.
Adding a $3,000 coaching back end can roughly triple a direct-response company's LTV and stretch an offer's shelf life from six months to two years.
The real ceiling on a call-funnel business isn't a dollar figure like $600K or $3M a month, it's offer volume: a $30K offer and a $5K offer hit different revenue ceilings at the same lead volume.
SMS confirmation through a compliant platform beat iPhone-based texting on both confirmation rate and show rate, because burned lines and single-device bottlenecks quietly cap volume.
A pyramid framework for scale: one person can build a seven-figure business alone, eight figures needs a few seven-figure-caliber people, and nine figures needs three or four eight-figure-caliber people plus a large bench under them.
Scaling horizontally, building teams-within-the-company across new but adjacent markets, avoids the ceiling that comes from trying to keep scaling a single service vertically.
A pay-per-hire enterprise recruiting model removes the traditional barrier to entry: clients only pay when they hire, and get credited back or replaced if a hire churns.
The best distribution advice for growing an audience from a service business: seed early videos in front of an existing customer or community base, since a base of even a few thousand engaged people can outperform generic YouTube discovery.
Diversifying a recruiting business into unrelated but heavily-regulated industries, like healthcare and home service trades, is framed explicitly as a hedge against AI eventually automating the sales roles the core business currently staffs.
Reading business biographies instead of straight management books produced better retention, because narrative and story make the lessons stick in a way bullet-point books don't.
Takeaway
Fix unit economics before you chase a bigger offer, and learn to lead leaders before you chase a bigger team.
WHAT TO LEARN
The gap between an eight-figure business and a nine-figure one isn't a better funnel, it's whether the operator can recruit, pay, and retain other high-caliber leaders instead of staying the most talented person in the room.
02$100M+ in Women's Fitness: The Jump From $1M to $34M/Year
Ryan's business went from $1M to $10M by switching a low-ticket offer into a call funnel, then from $10M to $30M+ by switching the call funnel from one-time info to ongoing one-to-one coaching, showing the offer structure moves revenue more than the price point does.
03Why Most Health Offers Get Stuck, and the Brand-vs-DR Divide
The real ceiling on a call-funnel business is offer volume, not a specific dollar figure like $600K or $3M a month; a $30K offer and a $5K offer hit different revenue ceilings at identical lead volume.
04The Offer Crazy Train, and Why Most Gurus Don't Monetize Properly
Recycling a front-end offer every six months to keep DR economics working is a symptom; adding a coaching or subscription back end can roughly triple LTV and stretch an offer's life to two years.
05Revenue vs. Profit: The Hard Lesson
Watch net profit per spend day, not just revenue: a real $30K spend day can net down to roughly $1,400 once liquidation and true costs are counted, which looks very different from the top-line number.
06The Setter Breakthrough That Changed Everything
Doubling a setter team and raising pay about 40% attracted closer-caliber setters, lifting show rate to 88-90% and cutting spend from over $500K to about $260K a month while keeping the calendar full.
07150% Profit Increase and the Sales Leadership Problem
A sales team that's 90%+ one gender serving a narrow demographic needs a leader who is a strong culture match first and a strong sales trainer second, not the other way around.
08Outbound: The Missed Lever, and AI in Sales
An outbound or cold-call function is easy to skip for years once inbound is working, but skipping it can mean leaving real revenue on the table long after the business could support it.
09The Hidden Calendar Optimization and Application Grading Advantage
Removing a financial qualifier question and grading applications with real financial data instead raised throughput about 20%, because roughly half of self-reported financial answers were false in either direction.
SMS confirmation through a dedicated, compliant platform outperformed iPhone-based texting on both confirmation rate and show rate, since burned phone lines and one-device bottlenecks quietly cap volume.
10Why Low Ticket Exposes Weakness, and Scaling Organic the Right Way
A low-ticket funnel exposes weak ad creative that a call funnel's sales team can otherwise mask, so treat a low-ticket launch as a creative-quality audit, not just a cheaper acquisition channel.
The best sequence for building an organic content team is agency first to find what format works, then bring the winning format in-house, rather than building in-house from zero.
11The Vision for 50% Organic, and What's Actually Hard Right Now
A useful diagnostic for a growth plateau: a seven-figure business can run on one person, an eight-figure business needs a handful of seven-figure-caliber people, and a nine-figure business needs several eight-figure-caliber people plus a deep bench under them.
12Skill Evolution, Identity Shifts, and the 200-Units Plan
Scaling horizontally into new but adjacent markets, teams within the company, avoids the ceiling that comes from trying to keep scaling a single service vertically forever.
13Going Horizontal Instead of Vertical: The Enterprise Pivot
A pay-per-hire pricing model (client only pays once they actually hire, with credit-back on early churn) removes the biggest objection to trying a new recruiting or staffing relationship.
Diversifying into heavily-regulated adjacent industries, like healthcare and home service trades, is a deliberate hedge against a core function eventually being automated by AI.
14CEO vs. Operator: Building 9-Figure Teams and the Mastermind Circuit
A founder's personal content doesn't need to chase generic discovery to work: seeding early videos in front of an existing customer or community base of even a few thousand people can outperform cold YouTube growth.
15The 120-Day YouTube Sprint, the 3AM Call With Iman, and Cole's Info Diet
Reading business biographies instead of straight management books improved retention noticeably, because narrative and story make operational lessons stick in a way bullet-point books don't.
Glossary
Terms worth knowing.
RCA
Rapid Cash Accelerator style low-ticket funnel model referenced by both hosts as an early, high-volume, low-price offer structure they each experimented with before scaling into higher-ticket models.
Call funnel
A marketing funnel that drives paid traffic to a landing page or opt-in, then to a booked sales call with a setter and closer, rather than a direct online checkout.
Setter
A sales team member who qualifies and books leads onto a calendar for a closer to sell on the actual call.
Closer
The sales rep who takes the booked call from a setter and closes the sale.
Ad-confirm (AMP)
A confirmation flow where a lead who books directly from an ad, without a setter involved, is confirmed automatically through an app or tool rather than a human setter.
Low ticket vs. high ticket
Low ticket refers to a cheap, often self-serve or lightly-assisted offer sold in high volume; high ticket refers to an expensive offer, usually sold through a call, with far fewer units needed to hit the same revenue.
Liquidation
In this direct-response context, using an inexpensive front-end offer to turn ad spend into paying customers immediately, offsetting acquisition cost before those buyers are upsold into a bigger back-end offer.
Application grading
Automatically scoring an inbound sales application, often with financial data, so the highest-value leads are routed to the best-performing closers first.
Direct-to-cart
A funnel that takes a buyer straight to checkout for a physical or low-cost product, rather than to a lead form or booked call.
Enterprise division (pay-per-hire recruiting)
A recruiting model, discussed as Cole's new business line, where a company only pays a fee once it actually hires a placed sales rep, with no upfront retainer.
MOIC
Multiple on invested capital, a private-equity metric for how many times an investment returned relative to what was put in, referenced in the context of a leadership book studying top-performing CEOs.
“It's the volatility of just raw ramming lead funnels.”
sharp, one-line definition of the risk in pure lead-gen funnels→ TikTok hook↗ Tweet quote
10:50
“If Andrew Huberman launched a health offer for sure, like he would probably be ripping, not even trying.”
concrete, name-checked example of the brand-vs-DR gap→ IG reel cold open↗ Tweet quote
13:20
“When they're both good you're printing cash. When one is bad you're breaking even. When both are bad you're literally burning the back money.”
tight three-beat structure describing media buying paired with a sales team→ newsletter pull-quote↗ Tweet quote
17:00
“We were able to cut our spend from over $500K to like $260K, and still keep the calendar full.”
concrete before/after number that proves the setter-pay thesis→ TikTok hook↗ Tweet quote
22:10
“You're literally leaving potentially like millions a month on the table.”
punchy warning line about skipping outbound→ IG reel cold open↗ Tweet quote
32:40
“50% of people who said they have no money actually had money. And 50% of people who said they had money had no money.”
counterintuitive stat that reframes financial-qualifier questions→ newsletter pull-quote↗ Tweet quote
41:40
“A low ticket almost reveals your lack of creative quality.”
reframes low-ticket funnels as a creative-quality audit, not just a cheaper offer→ TikTok hook↗ Tweet quote
55:20
“Seven figures, just you. Eight figures, you probably need a couple seven-figure people. Nine figures, I'm assuming you need three or four eight-figure level people.”
the whole talent-pyramid framework in one breath→ newsletter pull-quote↗ Tweet quote
1:42:20
“He tortures them into greatness.”
vivid one-liner about Jensen Huang's leadership style from the NVIDIA biography Cole read→ IG reel cold open↗ Tweet quote
1:59:55
“It's very clearly, activity did not equal output.”
closing self-critique that lands the whole leadership arc of the episode→ newsletter pull-quote↗ Tweet quote
Topic Map
Where the conversation goes.
00:00 – 14:30denseRyan's path from $1M to $34M/year in women's fitness coaching
14:30 – 32:01denseSetters, sales leadership, and profit-maxing the sales team
32:01 – 41:02denseAI sales tools: SalesKick, dialers, and application grading
41:02 – 49:46Creative volume and organic strategy for low ticket
49:46 – 56:12Cole's identity shift and personal brand strategy
56:12 – 1:15:42denseCole's B2B recruiting business and the enterprise pivot
1:15:42 – 1:21:58CEO leadership, mastermind circuit, and industry gossip
1:21:58 – 2:00:02denseCole's YouTube growth story and info diet
The Script
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This is the first time I feel like I've had a very clear executable plan of how to get past a hundred a year. I was like, I'm going to pay Ema. So I paid him like 18 grand, sat down and had my hour with Ema.
Never met him before. I never talked to him. Then it all basically just came down to like.
And you can get a couple thousand followers on both and then basically just make a couple million bucks doing like consulting deals. If we could just continue to do what we're doing now, progressively just by spending a little bit more on ads and hiring more salespeople, we should double the company. Yeah.
So just the B2B, five million a month. We were low ticket to start. That's how we got to a million.
The jump from one to 10 was doing and then from 10 to 30 was changing it for. In this podcast, me and Ryan talk about lessons that we've learned doing over $200 million in collective revenues. So we talk about what's working right now in the industry, some of the biggest business models that we've seen, areas we've both f***ed up and essentially have made tons of mistakes in our businesses, and so much more.
So we'll get to the podcast. So first, for the people who don't know you, what's just the couple quick highlight reels? Who are you, the company, what you do, revenue, etc.?
Yeah, we have an info coaching business in the women's fitness space that's done over $100 million in cash collected. A lot of paid advertising, high -ticket call funnels, testing now into some of the low -ticket stuff. And then me, on a personal side, about a year ago, decided to run up YouTube and do four months every single day, kind of build an audience, talent, opportunities, network, and do all that.
So you recently crossed over $100 million total sales. You said $103 million. Yeah, probably.
what do you think is the biggest breakthroughs along the way that you feel like kind of helped elevate you guys through the different stages and eventually over there and what's what's your monthly right now right now bad like we did two like low two this last one okay because it's the end of jan but last year we did 34.
yeah with a couple fives a lot of threes yeah it goes up and down yeah yeah i get it but what's what's some of the biggest things that helped you along the way I was thinking about it on the way here about how we can talk about this. And I feel like I say a lot of the same things, so hopefully people don't hate the echo.
But we were low ticket to start. No idea what we're doing. That's how we got into it.
And it was like 100 -ish. That's how we got to a million. The jump from one to 10 was doing a call funnel, but we were selling info.
So it was a lifetime access. It started at 500 bucks, went to 1 ,000, went to 1 ,500. And then from 10 to 30 was changing it from info to coaching.
right it was one to one instead like those were like the big if you had to look at the charts that's what the change was that's 30 per year yeah right okay yeah so it was literally it was like one nine ten thirty point five or whatever 34 this last year so like it's all it's gone up every time but the stair steps was the offer what do you think is the biggest difference because like it's really interesting with health offers it's like a lot of people can't break let's say 600 a month And then there's a handful of people and there's like several who pretty much, I mean, look like there's differences in the offer, but it's like pretty much the same offer, but they're ripping like two a month, three a month, four a month, five a month.
I mean, I have a client doing, I don't know the exact number, but I know at one point it was eight to 10 a month. Yeah. Right.
So like, what do you think's the difference between those, like the few people who are doing massive numbers? And then like, I would say most of like people in my mastermind who have offered like yours are probably like, four to six hundred three to six hundred yeah it's kind of like the i always hear people say like oh like call funnels cap at like three million a month or this happens at like a million a month and or 600 in that example and i really don't think that it's that like i don't think that people should even look at it as it's at a dollar value because it's really volume So like if someone has a 30K thing or someone has a 5K thing or like we had a competition with these guys that have a 25K offer or a 7K offer, like it's different.
Yeah. So it's very different in terms of that. So that's first is like I don't think it's the dollars.
The difference in health market, I know three by name of like that's kind of in our world that's in health. And I'm sure there's a ton of ones that we don't know. Yeah.
But that are in our world that are doing over 10. right now right and um who are they can you say who they are yeah probably not probably not so so i can i can break down their whole business models uh yeah yeah yeah well i know i know v shred obviously yep and then within health yeah yeah maybe i shouldn't say the next one and then i'm trying to think of somebody else but are you saying over 10 doing like more like high ticket stuff are you saying some of those people doing over 10 almost are kind of like an e -commerce high ticket blend yeah so and that's where i'm going with it is like essentially at like uh an acquisition source at a certain point of a certain volume like it just doesn't make sense to not be sweeping up or getting economy differences that you can get from something that's direct to cart or having direct to cart subscription on that like it just at that size starts to make sense to have either multiple products for ltv side or multiple acquisition types to like offset and like liquidate yeah so uh one two and three all use some version of a director cart
right as like an ascension model yeah um and whether that's like a test kit thing whether that's an info product whether that's whatever and then they are massive direct response towards those things they get the liquidation they get the buyers instead of leads and then they go through that so it's like I would, I mean, that's, that's our direction completely.
Cause it's like, it's just so clear to us. It's very clear. It's the volatility of just raw ramming lead funnels.
And when I say that, I always call them lead funnels, but like opt -ins VSL. Yeah. Anything that's lead gen.
Anything that's lead gen where there's not direct liquidation and people don't become a customer is like a lead funnel in my mind. And like they're needed and you need new lead flow to come in. It's sometimes cheaper, but sometimes not cheaper.
Even when you do liquidation, like we've had. days or, you know, let's say we run a low ticket, like you can have a $100 CPA with a $90 AOV and it costs you $10 burned to get a customer and you're getting $10 leads over here on a lead funnel. And those are not the same people.
Those are not the same people. I would amend what you're saying to add something else though. I would say the only other over a hundred million health type of thing you could do is brand.
So I'll give you an example. Like if he wouldn't do this, but if Andrew Huberman launched a health offer for sure, like he would probably be ripping, not even trying. 5 million a month.
Yeah. And that's how it really was in our world is because like, yeah, yeah, people who are not and people like there's a bunch of these companies that we were talking about the AI stuff a little bit, but like, that it's found where I'm like, Oh, that's interesting. Never heard of them.
It is info it is in that world is direct response. And I've never heard of them. They're not in our groups or things or anything.
But the other one that's in that grouping of health has a different traffic source. which is very interesting so instead of having different acquisition and how they do their tiers or whatever They basically do an affiliate slash like partnership model.
So they partner. Yeah, I know who you're right. Yeah.
And they and they crush. Right. That's a very volume play.
But it can be using a lot. I mean, I believe that it could be used in a lot of ways. And of course, it's on the back of all these guys who do direct response.
Right. And that's the one thing that's very. So I'll tell you a story is I went to this mastermind in 2020, literally the month before COVID.
Like they almost canceled it because of COVID. But COVID hadn't really nobody really knew if it was going to like break. massively didn't us and at the time i was doing 150 000 a month with me and a part -time coach so i'm just like solo guy trying to kind of figure out what at the time i didn't really think the b2b would scale i thought i was gonna have to do rca yeah and i was even thinking about doing like an rca low ticket to start which would have been stupid but that's what i was thinking and so i went to kind of like learn that but i also went because my buddy invited me and i was like it seems like a lot of high level people there v shred was there and do the whole event like their main thing which was crazy for me coming from like high ticket sales was they were like yeah our big like I'm talking companies doing over 100 million a year would get up and be like yeah our big breakthrough is we realized we had to keep rotating offers so many times because our LTV wasn't high enough so we've been adding like high ticket and that was like the breakthrough yeah and I'm like
Yo, that's like common sense. Yeah, that's crazy. But that's just there's so much more in the DR world.
So much. And they were adding that for the first time. So there's a huge trend of those companies who like there's this one.
There was these guys from I think it's called Natural Health Sherpa. They gave this this talk about how to get off the offer crazy train because they had to keep recycling offers to get their DR numbers to work. And they're like, yeah, we added coaching.
We're selling 3K at the back end. Now our LTV is like 3X. And now an offer rides for like two years opposed to six months.
And I just thought that was really interesting. So there's a huge need of those companies to kind of merge with high ticket. There's a merge coming there.
And there's another merge between media and also high ticket. because that's the best way to monetize media yeah right like if you're like super famous on social media unless like you're to the logan paul's point where you're just gonna do prime or something like that those guys are that as he's edged case but like even a lot of them is the servicing They don't want to be part of it.
They don't want to be the guru. They don't want to be. And like I, yesterday we had talked about this at dinner.
There was two different guys who are like super, they're running as growth partners, growth op or whatever for very, very well -known famous. And they're like, oh, they refuse to do content, like to do ads, like straight facing. I know who you're talking about.
They refuse to do this. They do like, they don't want to be on the back. Like, it's just like not that interesting whether that's because the dollars aren't that interesting or like the clout and like, and I get it.
I mean, I don't, I don't sell anything. I don't, Like, I don't know.
But to go back, the health one is an example. Someone who's doing that with the partnership, like Affiliate Model. When I started doing internet stuff was Affiliate, LeadGen, World, all of that.
And I have like... a lot of friends. That's still their business model.
Those guys are probably the best. I would say those guys are probably the best media buyer, copywriter, marketer people. They literally are.
Then there's e -com, which most of them just graduate into e -com. We're actually aren't industry, whatever you want to call it, people who do high ticket sale coaching things. We're kind of the worst, I would say.
But we're the best with monetization. Because we have the most room for error through that. I don't know why it's taken me so long.
Like we, we tried it a couple of years ago and did like a month long. I got up at like four in the morning. I built an entire low ticket and in like a morning was like, just run it.
And then it was on, uh, and on Sultanics AC framework at that time. Cause this was like two, probably three years ago, two years ago. Um, and we ran it and they were like, Oh, the economics of it suck.
No one even looked at the ads. Like it was just like a team dynamic, a buy -in, a whole thing where it was just like, Oh, we'll just run on this little side thing. Yeah.
Barely any pixel stuff. And then. we looked and it was getting like multiple hundred dollar purchases for like a twenty seven dollar thing or whatever we're just like turn it off and we just went back and it was like lead funnels and we've just been in this game of like how do we you know spend 30 grand a day 50 grand a day 20 grand a day like all over the board and then you know manage these fluctuations and manage the huge fluctuation of the media buying paired with the huge fluctuation of a sales team and that's it and it's like when they're both good you're printing cash yeah when one is bad you're like breaking even only making money on the back yeah both are bad you're literally burning the back money it's like it has been our rampant and it's like it's terrible so like we're talking revenue maxing versus profit maxing we've had like we're good but like by no means are we like you good and now the economics of how we're starting to shift it it's like clear as day that it just needs a little bit more volume to get over like the the essentially like overhead burden and yeah
Like in a cashflow sense, prior sales, all of that, like we just keep all that sitting there. So on cashflow, you're like, oh, this isn't whatever. But when you look at like the unit economics now, Josh Gavin was just talking about low tickets at Nick Fisher's event.
And I was like, I wish I would have shared the numbers, but we had a day four or five days ago where we spent like 30 grand, call it raw CPA on days like 3 ,200 bucks or 3 ,000 something, let's call it. you go down we have all these columns and then you go to the net world and it's like 1400 bucks yeah because it liquidated so much from like we're starting to like teeter in that direction and i'm like how fast can we do this because i want to i want to just have leads going to the highest highest value highest ones like the the one to three percent that are ready to buy basically going through application getting our phone call ready and or organic there's so many how is is your low ticket would you say it's validated right now or okay so it is yes so are you but you're not you're kind of so correct me if i'm wrong it seems like because i talked to you a couple months ago and it was not and you're like we're trying to figure out how to do it i think like we might have cracked it but i don't know we're like two days into this test so now you feel like you've cracked it finally and it's a matter of you have a lot of spend so it's just shifting the spend shifting the spend letting that eat the spend of the other thing yeah and the constraints of low ticket are
When you increase spend, does CPA rise with it? Because that's bad. And that usually comes back to media buying, offer, and or.
Right now, what we're in a big belief of is our creative engine. We don't test enough creative at all. You need way more creative with low ticket.
So that's why you see all my stuff right now. I'm hiring a paid creative strategist. We need a person that owns all the editors and just has the, here's what the recipe that's working right now.
I need 20 from this, 20 from this. And we have hundreds new a week. That's the next target for that.
So that's constraint one. Constraint two then is we go direct to call from that. So then you need the mass essentially setter army, right?
Because if you're selling 300 a day and you're getting 60 % call 50 for easy math, you're getting 150 setter bookings. Are they fit? And I messaged this, I'm like, are they 15?
Are they back to back 15 minutes? And we're doing inbound book zooms. So they're booking in inbound Zoom calls.
And then what's the show rate on there? What are the levers you can pull? What's the throughput of that to closers?
Let's say blended numbers, 25%. That makes it to a closer call. So you're getting a healthy amount of closer bookings that you no longer need to run.
anywhere near as much lead campaigns, VSL, opt -in stuff. And the economics are like 10 times better. The closer environment's better or should be.
But then all of a sudden you have this training arc because then you ramped a bunch of people and they're just passing everyone through or the closers get pissed. There's that whole world. So it's like constraint, constraint, constraint.
But you see the economics at it at like a small slash medium scale and you're like, oh. right oh this is why let me give you something that that i learned with setters this year and by the way if you like this content you want to come to our next event where i'm gathering all entrepreneurs people like ryan and we're talking about what's working in the industry what's not working in the industry and the lessons that we've learned scaling to over 100 million in total revenue we have an event coming up in our eight figure border mastermind if you want to know more information about that you can click the link in the description and it'll tell you all about it let me give you something that that i learned with setters this year and it's kind of embarrassing because i should know this but what happened with us is two things number one i i like just because i have such an overview of the industry like i have kind of benchmarks of based on your funnel how many leads you need per month per setter so i was kind of using those benchmarks to inform me in my business how many setters that i needed and the thing is i think it's just because we've been around for so long now and we have so many leads in the pipeline that are just old leads i
was at the event that you were at and tom spoke and he was like yeah we added a team a center team just to call our old leads and we added a million a month and i was like hey like and we've actually tried that but what happens is is we never really took it that seriously and then when we had setter churn on our main team we just moved the guys up because all of them wanted to be on that team anyways but i was like so during the talk i just went over i was like to my uh one of my sales directors i was like we're 100 gonna go full board this so then we doubled the setter team and October and kind of like in November was like training.
So December was the first month where we kind of had the full team. So that was the first thing we did. So we doubled the team.
And then number two, we basically, I was like, man, and this is a huge breakthrough is that our setters, I'm just going to throw out random numbers because I don't know the exact numbers, but let's just call it. They were making six to seven grand a month. Okay.
I was like, you know what? Let's just like, try to get them all to 10 grand a month. And the thing is, that doesn't seem like much money.
Like that's an extra 24 grand a month. Like that's nothing when you're spending what we're spending on. But that's a 30 % ish or more.
I think it's actually a 40 % pay raise. And so in the recruiting marketplace that gets you. an entirely different caliber of talent yeah and then what we did is basically just marketed to closers who wanted to close for us and just said hey you got to do setting for success yeah and then they're like okay i'll do it as long as i can move up but what that does even though you have the churn in six months it takes the ramp time from like let's say 30 to 45 days as a setter to a week or sometimes like a day like they're closers and if you've been a closer setting is pretty easy so between the increased caliber of just having better people because if you think about it if you're getting a random outbound call from somebody and they're like really good like a closer good smart like they can on an outbound call can make you think differently about your problem or whatever dude it not only affects show rate but it also massively increases closer because they had such a good impression on that first call that they kind of like the prospects sort of thinking and like
in their mind visualizing maybe working with you before they get on that second call where even if a setter has a good show rate but they're not that good you don't see the close rate pick up yeah so like our set to close went higher our show rate was like 88 90 and then dude because we had so many more setters we were able to even though maybe the extra setters and the extra pay cost us let's say 30 extra grand a month we were able to cut our spend from over 500k to like 260.
and still keep the calendar because the efficiency because you're squeezing more extra efficiency yeah so and so like profit wise when it falls to the bottom line i don't know the exact percentage but i want to say it's like 150 or something increase in profit it's fucking insane so as you're building out the setter team maybe consider just letting it be a track to being a closer so that's keeping them there six months and just getting really good people get people who like are impressive not like runty setters yeah so my math isn't working like that currently it's this is like one of we churned three sales leaders in 2025 like the full person who's in charge of the apartment um first one was the one that was with us from one to three million right good dude all good um second one really good skill but like was not a culture match that's a huge thing for us right now is like the actual culture match we have you know it's 90 plus percent of the team is female the entire target demo is 40 60 plus like uh generally speaking a male doesn't usually she'll be sad to run your team dude even that demo generally is not fantastic uh right it's like it's kind of this weird zone and it's much harder on the leader or like to have a proper leader um and it's not even gender and it's not age it's like it's the ability to like
the maturity, the empathetic, right? All that. Um, but the third one was good, but then got poached by big dog and respectfully.
So, cause yeah, you know, uh, I am not him. The opportunity is not there and the market and who he gets to work with is not who he gets to work with. Like it just makes sense.
So I'm like, run it please like that is a good opportunity so uh we're running it essentially like in -house right now with uh the most culturally aligned human we have on our team who has like gone through coaching and then built our entire coaching division and then now pass that off to another like so she's running it and like the team is shifting it's like the beliefs are up to cultures but like the sales skills isn't necessarily um we brought uh a setter up to be the inbound setter manager so we have it broken out as we call them imps um ag uh ad cons and uh outbound or like self we call them self and they're in separate teams fully so we have like full imp setters we have full ad confirm which is like technically going down now um because there's more that are only going through amp they set their own calls right with a closer so you don't you don't have as many like marketing direct bookings through app to uh closer call direct yeah so that goes down and we have zero outbound and we've basically had zero outbound forever we had no setters until we were at like 80 something million 90 million like zero yeah that's crazy so i talked to someone yesterday same thing you're saying is like oh like
you're literally leaving potentially like millions a month on the table. Well, it massively reduces your CPA and it increases your profitability. Not necessarily because of the extra appointment generation, but that does help.
But also because those appointments should be... If the setters are good, that's what happens is they skimp. Yeah.
But if you get really good people, sometimes those leads will close at 40, 50%. And it's much easier to do a best leads to the best closers. If you just tell your setters, Hey man, Hey, just put your best people with the best people.
Yeah. It's super easy to do it that way. I would, I am.
actively hunting so anyone who's watching this or you or like i need someone who fits that bill for the outbound direct like outbound setter world and they can build an army and like budgets there and like like i want i'm huge about just like you can build it i will meet with you lead direct point this thing like budget allocation but like you can build your whole own thing within our ecosystem is like kind of been the model.
And I need that because I have nobody who can do that right now. But I believe that that would be a big lift. And like you said, it's like just between touch points, the squeeze and the quality, like it's pretty impossible for it not to work, especially at a low scale.
But like, who knows? We've never done up on that. We don't have an outbound dialing software even like we don't do any of that because we haven't needed it.
Right. So like I'm very I'm very excited about that. But the.
The sales piece has always been a big struggle for us. And we're only a sale. We don't, we forever didn't sell anything.
Is you have so many people, right? So it's tough to number one, like even if you bring in somebody really good, they don't, they're not going to get enough time with everybody. Right.
Because there's so many people. Yeah. And so that's a tough thing.
You may want to consider if you have that. one person who's really good with culture if she's also good with like the systems and kind of the structure and ever just like bringing in even like fractionally or not fractionally just some like trainers yeah just to like budget some extra call reviews and training with the within the closing side yeah or within whatever teams um because that's what really what like one director on a huge team can handle the infrastructure the systems okay we're down now it's like 15 it's like 15 16 closers right now like we scaled down it's not bad well one manager could do that yeah so what do you use for ai right now in regards to like I guess in anything, but within the sales bucket.
So we are about to roll one that's one of those mock dialers, as well as cool transcripts, or reviewing more so the management AI. We have zero of that right now. We just got sales momentum, Aaron Platt, to do the build -out for the data side of it and kind of the flow.
But that doesn't necessarily solve... It makes it easier in the dashboard and all the data in one place, which has been a mess. But we don't have anything for...
reviews management scorecards well so so to be honest like our team to management ratio is not big enough to where i feel like we need like a call review ai software um it's funny we could it's not that hard to build like we could build one somebody on our team actually used to build one so i could like inherit theirs if i really wanted it internally or something like that but um it would only be really used to identify for the managers which calls to review like maybe flag hey i think this closer missed this deal like i think this is a closable deal because like where you want to target your call reviews on the call is the calls i call the fringe deals calls that should have didn't close but should have closed yeah right so but we don't have that just because i think our coverage is good enough with our manager to rep ratio to not have that uh i used to have an ai sms thing i just built it myself this was back in like 2023 that was for the rca side it would automate all the text triage and then it would allow the setters to come in and take over but the credits back then at least it probably way less expensive now the credits were like so much that i was like dude this automates like two messages for the setters like what productivity game am i really getting here um so we don't have that mock dialers you could test it for old leads again
I'm just, I'm just having my guys rip dialer. Yeah. And especially with dialer, we can output so many dials.
I just have my, my pipeline setters hit those. So the only thing I think on the sales side, I could be missing something. Cause it's like, we use AI for a lot of stuff, but the main thing is sales kick, which by CMO bill, that's a whole software product that uses AI for the upgrading and lead routing.
Yeah. So that was a replacement of, cause I was literally looking at that. Like, well, it's not a replacement.
It's really it. it's a replacement kind of for your sales uh coordinator in a way right the human not the not like calendly yeah not yet so i'll get to that in a second so it essentially automatically through ai grades the applications and you know we've tested it we have it about at a 98 thing so like in our sales coordinator we'll go through each morning and just make sure it did it all right it'll also in real time move the appointments to where they need to be in the calendar so like i'll give you an example If let's say you have a sales coordinator who works US hours, right?
They're going to wake up at 8 a .m. on a Tuesday and then they're going to take off all the unqualified applications that are like spam or whatever. Well, what happens is inevitably that leads to open slots on your calendar because.
They'll do that as the day is going on, but obviously they can't do it when they're sleeping. Or if they do, you have to hire a second person that's overseas to look at the appointments that are coming in overnight. So what happens is, is like, I might be a closer and have five appointments on my calendar in the morning.
And then, then it started booking, booking out on the next day. But then some of these were spam. So now I have three appointments on my calendar today.
And then I have some that I got to call and try to pull forward. But with sales kick, that won't happen. So it does that.
It does all the confirmations through AI. and the sms confirmations and honestly like it's pretty much as good i think the deliverability is better using sms we did a test then the iphone and the sun blue and i i phone factory yeah i mean look i was very hesitant when i saw the results but i think when you're at my scale what happens is is okay if we were to use real people with iphones they'd each have to have like three iphones and we'd have to have like a bunch of people just because we have so many appointments and then the other thing is so many lines get burned and you have to test the lines like a ton and so inevitably when the lines get burned what happens is is you don't really know for a couple of days and then that drops your confirmation rate so when we switched over to sms We did a test and our amount of confirms that we actually got were higher.
And so in our show rate went up as well. I think I solved this. So we were on one of the blue sand platforms and we moved to a different one that.
Was much better cost and just looked like it had a better kind of like managerial zone on it versus just one of these ones It's like because what the issue was is that it basically was connecting a contact to a number and then that was it for a long time And then it was like oh I passed my phone to the you know when you go from setter to closer I passed my phone.
It's like this weird thing Yeah in the og days, and then they kind of added some other features, but so we ended up on a different one which I'll talk I can tell you off this and the three -way texting so you can do group three -way texting sure so the ad confirm or the the imp they're like okay cool yep let me just drop you the thing right now boom yep you got assigned with xyz closer and they drop a group chat of the setter the closer and the person in blue but this is only off the setter yeah but all but and when they get ad confirmed so they all go through a setter well okay so obviously if our setter books somebody the setter just handles the confirmation for the appointment yeah right But I'm talking if it just comes from a direct booking from ads.
Yeah, so then you try and do it through an ad confirm, which is like for us, we get like 60 % of them confirmed. Yeah, and they're just using iPhones. No, they're using this tool.
So is the tool a SendBlue type of thingy? Yeah, and they use it, and it's native. So like the rule of 50 a day or whatever new contacts is made up.
You could get burned on 20. You could get burned on 200.
So like we don't use it for blasts, for example, like you cannot no, no, you gotta like scatter across right and the other issues Yeah, you hit this then you got moved multiple lines when you have more volume and all this stuff It's not an issue when it's actually like a human using it It's basically just like a computer version of an iPhone instead like it's a desktop version of an iPhone And you just don't run into as many like those issues.
There's still issues for sure Yeah, like I feel like I feel like this is a unique you you know, you're good with this stuff I feel like for most people, I'm proud to say I didn't even set it up or wasn't part of it, which is great in my, in, in my land. But yeah, no, that, that's how we're solving for it.
And we saw a big uptick when we initially did it. And then there's like all these bugs and things and stuff that have happened over time. So like, I don't even know.
I don't know. I just know that the green out of the box kind of canned ones were never friendly, but I also know that we have a bunch of Android and our demo and all that, like really knows. It is tough.
Cause with, you got to think just with Apple, they, they don't want you to do this no right sms is built to do this yes so you ultimately and it's the same thing with dialer the reason dialer works better is because it's more compliant with the way it's set up and whenever you have more compliance you have more deliverability and when you have more deliverability of more results but but going back to sales kit the other thing is that the calendar will start in turn uh testing it internally for us in the next week or two we're really waiting for authentication with google and then once we get that we'll have basically a replacement for once hub and that's going to change the game because i can't believe you used one so it's dude with all the functionality we need for moving appointments for moving appointments it's the best one in double and single booking you have to use it but even if you compare it to calumny or whatever else the time it takes to go through uh scheduling a time and and filling out the application we tested it with both identical flows and it shaves off like 10 to 15 seconds
which is like, I think of the entire thing, like 30 to 40%. So that's going to increase conversions a lot. Also, I just think it's way better.
Like CRO optimized for like build it. Like, so it'll be, it'll be a replacement for an internal enterprise, internal team communication thing. So you bet you're building like I close from the back.
So like you already did the backside and now you're going to do the front. That'll come in. And then it also has so much more like lead delegation, just.
waiting of bookings and making sure the best people go to the best closers and a bunch of other functionality that how does it know the best closers then you you push in yeah well based on the app grade and the weighted grade of the app it can delegate the best ones to the best ones how's it on the who the best closer is this because you're the push we're going to input it into the system and then wait and then you update it and then you just update yeah you just update it 14 day trailing or 30 or whatever yeah interesting yeah like we yesterday did uh uh aaron platt talked at um nick's thing and he was talking about like roca and i was like what about net versus like versus gross on spend now that we have this like low ticket piece and uh he's like yeah and i always did it so it was net net new cash basically divided by uh cost of bookings but i also added commission amount so it's like straight up like return on rep Literally, what did we pay them?
What did we pay for bookings? What did we pay them? And the next thing I could have done is what is their software cost?
What is the true all -in cost versus what they brought in net? And that's a pretty interesting stat for us. We have that too.
But it's just very simple because we just allocate the spend evenly based on the amount of slots that they have. Or we take our cost per... Cost per scheduled call.
And then depending on how many slots they have open, we can assign all of the how much spend weighted to each rep. Because some reps take more calls than others. Some might have 10 slots open a day.
Some might have seven. So here's four. And then we can see what their closes are and then what the actual return is per rep.
Yeah. How do your clients or you've had in the past, how do you grade an application in health industry? Well.
Because you're not asking what's your net worth? How much are you willing to wire live on the call? I would have to like, it's not top of mind because it's not something that I'm actually doing, but I would imagine occupation is the big one, right?
Because with occupation and then you can even see that. And then, yeah, it's like, what do you do for work? Cause that does relate to health stuff is like, what do you do for work?
I think that's the number one thing. And then you can test having a financial qualifier question in there or not. I think what's better.
So another sales kick test is we found that 50 % of people, this was with one client lied on their financial application on their financial question. Meaning if they said they had whatever your version is, if I have no money, 50 % of people who said they have no money actually had money. And 50 % of people who said they had money.
had no money it was it's not exactly 50 but it was around there so essentially you're you're dqing these people who have money maybe they don't have intent that's a different story but they don't have money and you're just dqing them and so we tested with that client removing that question and it also increased to 20 throughput and then you just do financial data which does cost money but like the it outweighs what is it now like two bucks does that make sense yeah so i i think the financial data thing is And that's another thing SalesKick will do is essentially with the financial data.
Oh, it does do that. With the financial data, it'll take that and weight that into the grade real time. So like you could even have it to where the people with the most, physically the most money based on the financial data, go to the best closers.
And it's name, email, phone, and it pulls. Yeah. And so the way it has to happen is I think.
again like you're asking me all these technical questions and i'm very much not the technical guy but it's like in the beginning you have to have name your mobile number first so it can send it back before they finish yeah so that has been our so we've never used one of those and so we're in our health world for b2c it's huge we use that's makes that makes a lot of sense but we yeah we've never done it so the financial qualifier ish the the only qualifying question we have in ours is how much have you invested in the past into yourself within this like xyz thing right that's not a bad one it's it's uh zero to one one to five five to ten ten uh yeah whatever and uh we basically just the zero to ones we just push to a dq one but we take all the dq calls still yeah it's like the lower router versus the higher router in terms of that and then setters all go to the higher one as well it's like kind of the buckets but yeah that's super interesting we i i don't know we were just doing so much volume for so long yeah that the that using one of these tools was like
seven, 10, 15, 20, like a month in order to do that. And same thing with what you're saying is like the time in which it took it to go back and forth to route, we're using like Jot and then it's like, how are you going to push and then put them on the right page? Eventually for your call funnels, even though you're trying to get rid of it, you should, especially when the calendar feature comes out, you should look into SalesKit because I think it's going to be by far the best solution.
but like i'm down like i only i i don't know why i can never explain it i always remember my team tells me and then i forget but there's a there's something is for most people can work but as you get into this double single booking rerouting all this stuff there's some functionality there's like one or two things it can't do it has gotten a lot of things you can't like when you try and change but i hate once a piece of when they made some new update that you like go to edit something and literally just like Even just the time in which you go through the admin portal to find something you need takes minutes to find.
It's terrible. So one thing that you could test that we did with our B2C is the issue with the financial data is great for lead routing and app quality. But the thing is, is you can't really send it back to the pixel.
Because if you do, you can only do it U .S. only. So what happens is if you're doing U .S., Canada, Britain, let's say, only the U .S.
is only the people who have money from the U .S. will send. But those countries will send everything and then all your spend will go to those countries.
Interesting. So that sucks. But here's how.
So I don't do it on the front end anymore. But what I did is for the opt -in, I changed the CTAs in the ad. This is just for B2C to say like.
to make it seem like, Hey, fill out the short personalized form and we'll send you the training or whatever that's custom to your goals. And frankly, like, okay, you should probably create a couple of videos, but you could just send them the same video. And then what that does is you can ask occupation in that, or you can ask some sort of question that sort of like segments.
And then that becomes what you send back to the pixel for B to C. that has helped lead quality so much and then that way it works across all the countries yeah so it's kind of like a quiz funnel but it's still the vsl we're on a quiz and it's just no no um they can't enter name email phone number or anything like that i mean no no we do do that because we call the leads so they do enter name email phone number but the first questions are just they're all just quick multiple choices yeah super interesting so what do you do because with low ticket The big thing you mentioned, obviously creative production, which I would say, by the way, that's the big thing.
When everybody gets in a low ticket, it's so much more creatively demanding than the call funnel. But what I will say is it's more of a reveal because with low ticket, if you're not making enough creatives, obviously you see it in your CPAs going up, right? The thing is with the call funnel, it kind of absorbs the spend more.
But the thing is, if you do make more creatives, your lead quality with the call funnel will go way up as well. So that's one thing I feel like a low ticket almost reveals like your lack of creative quality. I'm curious, like you're doing a bunch of creatives.
Like what's your new process? Nothing yet. So that's what we're trying to build into.
So it's like what you're trying to build. Yeah. Yeah.
So I, so first off we had.
Luke co -founder, right? Like he is the one who got like was spending, he did product market fit. And then he also was one who spent spending for us like up to like 20 a day.
So it was literally like me basically doing like marketing tech structure. I was talking about this. I was more plugged in the industry.
He was the actual like copywriting, like looking at the creative and doing all the media buying. And like that was, it was us. And then we had like a copywriter for a long time.
And then newly we've tested, we tested agencies and that was like this big flop and we didn't have loads of like this whole thing. We then last year was the first time, like let's build an in -house full team on the marketing side. Yeah.
So it was a tough kind of learning curve, but I'm saying all this to be like, we now are breaking out organic from paid because we've been 99 % paid first click always. We have a ton of content, but it all exists middle and bottom of funnel. And it's like a consumption game, which again does work.
And like they raise their hand when they're ready. And like we send two emails a day, plus automations, plus assist. But the new structure of the team is like an organic director on the side.
And I'm like, how do we get to 120 pieces a week? We're at 10. And like, what is that organic creative machine look like?
And two different, two different teams. So we're going to have an organic, um, basically like we have the director, we're going to have a social media, like a coordinator post person. And then we're gonna have like mass amounts of short form editors, mass amounts of this.
Everyone I talked to is like burn through agencies. Actually, it's even better to do that, which I thought was very interesting. I've heard that twice now.
And it's like, you get an agency that's, you can pump out hundreds a week. They go internal, they basically push internal. they have access to all the reporting and then they post and then after x amount of months they basically are like in this lull or like you need something new and creative and then you have this other agency that fills and you just constantly churn them i'm like that's interesting you're hermosa talk about like oh we just learn from them then bring it in house yeah i've heard now three of the other big names of people in our world have bought uh, short form agencies who have bought organic content agencies that then have basically gone to zero internal once they bought them.
And then they've gone back to using external agencies. Like it's very interesting. So we don't, you just don't, we don't know.
We don't on the, on the organic. I'm going to try and do it. I think I've been so on the media side, the few things I've learned and it's limited because we're just really kicking it off this year is number one, it should not, it's a totally different department than your ads.
Yeah. So, I mean, that might sound like common sense, but we used to try to like do it all in one meeting. And obviously what's like the pressing stuff, if your ads dependent is always going to be the ads.
So the social media just, so we had the, it's like a new division, right? We just correct new meeting, break it out. So there's some crossover with people, but you got to break it out.
And then I would say the thing, I mean, it's fine to use an agency at first, but all the best people have it internal. And I think that, I think that's where you want to go towards.
I would say, I think the only thing we're thinking about agencies about, not for YouTube, but for short form, is just increased distribution. Because the thing is, if you have... Clipping agency -wise?
Yeah, because we're even thinking about, okay, we have an agency for short form, but internally we can build a function. And then why even let go of the agency? Because they're finding...
totally different stuff. Or even the filming I do with that agency is totally different. So let them keep doing what they're doing.
And then we build, you know, four posts a day or three posts a day internally. And then that way we just have bigger distribution and then hiring a different agency for the sub account thing. Yeah.
For, so yeah, so we're breaking the organic one, similar mindset of, Oh, let's build it in house and do that for organic on the paid side. It's going to, the difference is like still going to have short form editors. So I'm going to have a couple of graphic designer, right?
Like there, but then you have a creative strategist, which you were talking about. Like that's specific for paid that gets the recipes right on what's working now passes down. Then they also have like a new iterations.
They have like iteration department and they have like new department where they're constantly cycling there. Um, cause again, I talked to these, I went to another mastermind that was an affiliate specific one. The guy's like, Hey, we test like 500 to a thousand new a week.
And I'm like, I'm like pulling up our like scorecard. I'm like 26 tested last week. And like spending similarish amounts, um, completely different ball game when it's, you know, uh, direct response lead gen versus brand.
And, but like still, um, so that's like the big change or direction there. But I don't know. Cause I, I don't know on the distribution of short form.
I am so back and forth on this. You talk to Iman or any of these guys? No, I'd like to talk to him at some point.
I don't know if the market's where it is. probably a good preface for this because when it was the tate model and it was that yeah that's when iman did it so he talks about this in his program and his stuff but he built in -house yeah and the main core reasoning is the control yeah so you can just push the narrative to whatever direction you want at whatever time you have a new offer you have a new cycle you write this you want to be fame you want it to be yeah i think you can control it but he had like a hundred people yeah internal that were clipping like they were clipping essentially and then they own all the pages yeah and the more i think about it with short form because i've been thinking a lot about like youtube i feel like we have a very concrete strategy and youtube is also naturally more of a top of funnel platform um with short form it's like especially instagram and youtube shorts it's like tough you know it's like i don't see a lot of people doing like a post or two a day and then unless there's something that happens outside of the instagram or they just have like something
you don't see as many people predictably grow on instagram no but i think the more i think about what they do in the wrong way yeah they do it i think a lot of it is a volume game like i think that i mean obviously you have to have good content yeah so you can't just post a bunch of yeah but like that's why i'm trying to get my page up to four or five posts a day and then have the sub account strategy And if they're able to do another 15 across subaccounts by repurposing all of the stuff we're doing on the main side.
And they all point to the main. And they all point to the main and they're all shared to the business manager so I could pixel all the views. And then I can retarget with those views.
Yeah. So then comes the next thing. Okay.
So it's like, all right, you solve for that. Then DM setting. and or link in bio for you know many chat or something so like we don't even have we have no dm setting yeah i know it's like a whole other thing it's a whole other thing you got to do thankfully it's not that hard it's pretty it's pretty simple but i would say don't throw it on some random person on your team be like hey you're managing the dm setters now i think you just need to hire somebody to do it yeah i mean there's actually decent agencies who do it too dm setting .com they sent me a lube on my dm setting and honestly i was like yeah we need to do some things better yeah but i would imagine for the creative for the ad side you would have probably somebody responsible for finding or a team how to convert organic into ads another person or two or however many you want just ai right another person just remixing top performers and then another group of it i mean this is if you wanted to blow it up and then another group of editors
uh dedicated to new angles and new creative production like that's kind of i don't know if that's how you would think about it but if i was trying to get to like a hundred like tons yeah that's probably where i would be thinking yeah i'm going for hundreds i i have this whole I feel like it's literally right there. If I had a whiteboard, I could show exactly what it is, which for a very long time I could not.
Before it was more of the same, scale the current thing. And now it's like, well, this lever pulled here. So the marketing side, it's like, okay, let's get organic to 50 % of bookings.
How insane would that be and what would that take? And it's like, what would that look like? And let's just go there and land in the stars.
The nice thing with health though, dude, is health is much easier to scale short form wise. Agreed. Especially with a woman face.
Agreed. And we have multi -face. So it's like, if I go from back to front, like organic being the very front, three band faces, I want to go full like influencer army mode.
And whether that's per post, ideally it's per like CPA style rev share. Cause now we have. direct to cart that we can do instead of going to leads you don't have to wait for x amount of time for like some cpa on some large thing you can do cpa now shorter because there's like cash there um so it's like that whole army of things do you go into physical products you can leverage tick tock shop and all that we can do that in our market yeah it's like there's organic direct response shifts to 90 plus percent is direct to cart so then your economics of that plus the economics of that like you have a zero like you know dream world but you have a zero or profitable essentially front end because of that with those blended Then it goes into an extremely high -performing, high -ticket team that can just scale linear as the booking flow continues to rise and go there.
Then you go into the high -ticket land. Then on the back, that's what I'm tripling down on. We're going subs and physical products and in real life.
What would you say would be the biggest challenges slash things you're working on now? There's organic, scaling the low ticket. You've got to figure out the setters.
Then you mentioned, obviously, Maybe launching a physical product side at some point. Sure.
What else? Yeah, like what else in addition? Or did I just name all the challenges?
Yeah, yeah, no, those are pretty difficult. Yeah, I don't think I need any more on my plate. Yeah, no, it's a lot.
It's a lot. So I think we'll be good on the organic side. It'll take time.
I think the culture shift of the sales side, adding fun, new blood, like we'll need a larger team in order to do the volume we're talking about doing. So that's like the acquisition piece. And then we get the economies of the direct response.
We can continue to scale into that. There's also like within that lane, there's do you do partnership affiliate, influencer army, like, but then you remove the call. So, okay, cool.
Is it break even? And then you just get 10 ,000 customers a day. Yeah.
Like there's that world. Yeah. Uh, because we could play that game and then all the consumption, all the email, everything becomes the squeeze.
So it's like, we start the weekly webinars now starting next week inside the community. That's the free slash low ticket community. It didn't exist.
There's 10 bookings a week, a hundred bookings a week. Like who knows? One thing about your organic that you can build that'll actually help build it quite well is using the low ticket community as a way to kind of filter back to your organic.
yeah i know this is this sounds a little strange but when i did on youtube when i first did sales content my views were honestly like for how for how like the content wasn't up i just would get on and just be like okay here's how to handle an objection like i didn't do any of the youtube best practices packaging titling whatever but what really helped is like i quickly had a base of like probably five to ten thousand people who were in our low tickets or in our program who would naturally like literally on their feed just watch every video and so that kind of helped do it but then once we stopped rca then i dropped a sales video i could tell like yeah it just reset back down to like 2k yeah you know yeah so i think that'll help a lot yeah i think so too what do you think the I watched the Ravi one before this, and this is comical, the difference.
We're in it. We're super tactical. We are in it.
Ravi's more of the lifestyle guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Noted.
I'm like, dude, it's 9 a .m., and you're asking me about how we do this automation and this lead round. I'm like, fuck, man. I got to ask some guy on my team.
It's like that. But what do you think, to go a little outside of that, what do you think is your next skill set evolution? What's the gap?
well there's a couple right so i would say the biggest one i'm spending time on is the media side and specifically a couple of things is like how do i because i don't really want both because personally i don't want it and i don't i think there's a good business case i don't want to do i don't want to be like jeremy minor right like where he for the last decade plus And probably for the next decade, he's doubled down on just sales, sales training for all industries.
Well, number one, I don't do all industries for sales training. Number two, I help people either get into sales or I help sales teams, right? So like getting just sales people doesn't really hit my target market.
And it's just, I'm also just not, I like sales, right? Do I want to make every video about sales? I just don't, right?
So the big thing I'm trying to work on is, okay, for our new content strategy, which is much more broader. right and more like brand focus and just trying to expand and get a lot of views okay great if i'm doing that though how do i sort of categorize myself to where you know uh dan martell is kind of the sas ai business influencer guy right now you have cody sanchez who's the boring business right like there's a a brand association um i've had the benefit of being the like sales guy which is great i don't mind that but for like youtube and organic what's my kind of new association so to speak like that's kind of something that i'm and i still want to do sales content don't get me wrong but that's one of the things that's a little and maybe it still is sales i just do it in a different way so that's one thing the other thing is is just i think the more i do content the more the bar raises of like oh my god okay i gotta get to this level in terms of how i write youtube videos how i do the hooks how i create open loops like
I really got to just up my skill set on that and then just compress the time it takes me down to do it. So I'll give you a good example. I can write a banger VSL, but I might spend two weeks on it.
In the YouTube game, you can't really... I mean, sure, you could do that, but I want to put out two videos a week. So I need to get good enough to be able to also do it much quicker.
And then I'm also trying to figure out the short form side. So that's a whole thing there. The second thing is...
is where I really want to take the company. Like we could just continue to do what we're doing now and progressively just by spending a little bit more on ads and hiring more salespeople, which we really have enough salespeople now. We just made two hires yesterday.
So we're pretty much where we need to be. If we just don't do anything and we just more and better of what we're doing, as Hormozy would say, we'll be at about 200 new sales a month for B2B. That, and this is kind of crazy, but to fully realize, like our front end revenue on the back end it will take about 18 months to even two years because so much of it compounds and we get even second year renewals and all this stuff right but from the from the moment we hit and maintain 200 units a month let's call it a year from there just rough napkin math we should double the company yeah so just the b2b 5 million a month then i'm rebuilding the rca i really want to build that mainly through organic i don't really want to run a bunch of paid ads through it um just the custom especially b2c the customers are way better organic and so that's kind of my main monetization for my content anyways which is why i want to go broader so that i just want to get to like 10 mil i think that's for a b2c like that i think that's like a safe good number so that's 60 right so then what's like the next things so the next things i'm focusing on is essentially we're launching a new division that is
It's not to enterprise companies, but it's kind of called our enterprise division for enterprise pricing. So this is people who need enough reps. Like you would technically fall into this category if they need more than, let's say, 10 to 20 reps a year to where like you just pay us if you hire the rep.
That's it. Like you might pay your first hire down, which is might be four grand or five grand. And then you just pay as you go.
And then. If you want to stop, you stop. We keep you in Slack.
And then if you want to let us know you want more, I mean, that could be two years later, whatever. But it's just like we send you people. You only pay us if you hire them.
And then if they churn for whatever reason, we just credit it back to you and give you somebody else or we'll just refund you the payment. So it's like no risk. And for much more higher volume people, it's much more economical than what we used to do, which is like, OK, to recruit, you kind of got to be in our mastermind.
Like that's good for me. For higher volume people, you mean like people who need like 30 reps, 20 reps a year. They're trying to build a setter department from scratch or they're a roofing company and they need pitching or they're a roofing company that needs like, I'll give you an example.
Like we worked with this private equity company that was rolling up like roofing companies and you know, just for their, just to maintain a hundred reps, which is where they're at with like a 10 % churn, they need 10 reps a month, right? They're internal recruiters. They have to do the entire team.
So they just need more firepower on the sales side. So we kind of want companies like that, that even just with their churn, They got to have a function that just keeps new reps coming in.
So I'm launching that division to go after companies who have more of an ongoing need. And also if they're above five to 10 ish reps in their current team, we can do any industry. The issue with doing any industry with where my business is at right now is the problem is, is if you're a roofer hiring your first rep, like I can't really build, I mean, I probably could, but like.
We're not experts at coming in and, okay, I got to teach you on how to be a leader. I got to get you out of the roofing fulfillment and the roofing sales, build that. That's not really my specialty.
But if you already have 10 sales reps in your roofing company, I mean, I can come in and tweak a lot of your processes. But at the same time, your stuff's validated. So as long as I can take your best 20 % of reps and create a model from that, my recruiters, outbound, inbound, et cetera, they can get you those right people.
So then that opens us up. to the whole market, which is you could imagine like that almost gives us a B to C level of scale, but with a B to B super high ticket. So that's kind of like the thing, just doing more of what we're doing is party.
Number one, launching this, I call it the broad 2 .0 or like the enterprise division. That's sort of number two, number three. And this is a contingency on if that upmarket approach works or if it does work, we're still going to do this anyways, is we have.
like our recruiting division is almost a company in and within itself and it's extremely good so we can do and we've already done all other hires out you know except like outside of sales too so i'd like to go into a different sector completely like home service techs just to diversify and then have like a different brand that license and uses our recruiting as a shared service does that make sense yeah so we would go after let's say home service companies and hey we'll place you text the nice thing about that is If you need to hire a tech or if I do healthcare, if you need to hire a nurse, you don't need with sales.
You have to have a good offer in place. You have to have good lead generation. You have to be a decent sales leader for that hire to even work or it's a very high churn risk.
That's one of the biggest issues I have at my company is sometimes it's like, you know, they might not have everything in place. And then like somebody churns, is it our fault? Is it their fault?
You know, it's kind of tough. But if you just are a doctor in Miami and you don't have any of that stuff, but you're busy and you want a nurse, you're willing to pay a nurse, whatever, we can get you a nurse. I don't need to consult you on all this other stuff.
You should just do telehealth. And yeah, like getting virtual nurses for telehealth companies. Because what I want to do is have, let's say, in the next five years, this is what I've screwed up before.
I had a portfolio of offers, but they were just random. I want to have a portfolio of offers, but really it's just, it turns us into not just a sales recruiting company but a recruiting conglomerate that is diversified to these different industries and that's really important because let's say ai replaces sales i don't think that's going to happen at least for the sales that we do anytime soon but let's just say it does well if i'm also doing electricians and placing those into companies and there's a lot of data center development like i'm going to be hedged in that way healthcare is probably not going to go anywhere, right?
It's so heavily regulated, it's just gonna be so tough. So like, that's another good sector home service techs unless I mean, if we're at the point where your HVAC person is a literal robot driving to your house and doing your unit. I mean, I don't know, we're living in a different world at that time.
So that also is a good hedge. Yeah. And so and I'm also approaching like, I built this business model with recruiting that essentially nobody else does right no other recruiters do this like extremely high volume we're faster than almost all recruiters we get all of our clients through ads very rare for recruiting um we do like a transactional high ticket sales model very rare for recruiting so i've built this like unique model and this is the first time i'm stepping back and looking at first principles and i'm like okay i've always assumed i had to do sales recruiting but if i just approached this is like i'm going to start a new recruiting business based on like macro data and economics and all this stuff what is just like the best industry to get into that's how i'm going to approach it in the future yeah and then but well only the nice thing is the complexity it's not building another company in the portfolio it's really just i got to get the marketing down which can just be legion that's the nice thing about b2b which makes it a lot easier than doing low ticket i just got to get that legion down i can do that
and then i have an amazing distribution of sales directors so i just got to place the right sales director get the lead generation down and then maybe we hire a couple specialized recruiters on our staff but it's still in that same division yeah because they're licensing from that staff does that make sense so that's kind of like and i think just penciling it out it will take time because it's a service that's the thing about b2b it's not like this but there's no reason that can't do 150 to 200 million yeah interesting how do you look at uh where do you think you need to change to do that because like i feel like i feel like the last year for me for context was like almost understanding and i'd like like the It just felt like a big year of experience, like a lot of activity, a lot of like stuff that went wrong and like a lot of learnings.
But the big like I feel like a year ago, I couldn't do what you just did. And now I can do as well, which is here's the plan. Like it's like it's very obvious as to how it happens.
And that is crazy. This is the first time I feel like I've had a very clear. executable plan of how to get past a hundred a year.
Before I'm like, yeah, I kind of have this hypothesis, but I don't know. Like now it's like, even if let's say our upmarket motion doesn't work for whatever reason, I know these other things will work. Cause like I've, I've even seen it.
Like there's a company who does construction placement doing a million five a month, but they have a recurring revenue model. Pretty cool. Faceless brand too.
And I mean, they're going to sell for a lot of money. and they just place for construction and they modeled all my ads their ads are literally my ads just niche down their ads are my ads and it was funny i was explaining this at a uh at an event i'll tell you who this is after but somebody was like bro he's like is it this company and i was like oh yeah it's them he's like he's like yeah that's my client And he's like, we totally modeled your ads.
And I was like, yeah, I would do the same thing too. But they were literally doing my classic five reasons why ad, the direct offer ad. I've seen so many of your ads.
Yeah, I know. People just model it verbatim. But that's proof right there that construction, boom.
I mean, it'll work. The key is I have to find people who the owner will reply to an ad, right? and that we can and they'll also close in a one to two week time frame yeah and that you know we can recruit for and then they have an ongoing need yeah so that's kind of that's kind of the idea but how you're gonna ask how do i need to yeah well yeah like how do you need to change but also like what do you think took so long or what do you think was in the last year call it what change that now allowed you to be able to see it so clearly And I say, and I almost say this like selfishly because I'm like, what was I doing?
I know. Yeah. I think that you just got to do a lot of dumb shit to be quite frank.
I just don't know like why this is pretty obvious. I don't know. I was so, I think I also had a very big conflict for a while of, am I going to be this sales trainer guy for the rest of my life?
Or am I going to do recruiting? Like I didn't know. And I had also been people.
When my name comes up, they're like, oh yeah, he's a sales guy. Which I kind of am. That's like my personality too.
So I was kind of cornered into that identity, which I think led me to try to do more of that stuff. So I think that's number one. I went through this whole era of a portfolio thing, which that also caused another identity crisis because we had scaled up the medical company so big.
So there was like a three -month period where I was like, I've grown this medical company faster than I've grown anything I've ever touched. so maybe i'm a medical guy now so like i didn't know what my private equity got like what what and then when i kind of came back it took a time when i was full time in the b2b to just kind of calibrate to this and we had tried the thing is i had the right instinct in 2024 because we tried going up market i just did it the wrong way yeah um i could go into the details of that but i just i had the wrong ad copy and i got the wrong it worked but the wrong people were on the phone So I don't know.
I think it just took some time, but I'll tell you like the inspiration, this is going to sound goofy, but did you watch the podcast with John Morgan on my first million? Probably the Morgan and Morgan guy. He has the multi -billion dollar recruiting firm or sorry, a lawyer firm.
I listened to every single, we text about that. And I was like, man, first of all, that, that episode was sick. And then I watched the one on Patrick by David too.
And I'm like, okay, this Morgan and Morgan guy is like, you know, pretty legit. All right. and he just has a lawyer firm per you know injury but he does pretty much everything and they're doing billions of dollars a year in revenue and then that kind of solidified for me i'm like if i want to create a big company like it's not in probably sales training it's in professional services which is the recruiting so that got me thinking towards that and then one day i was on chat gpt or gemini or whatever and i was researching the model for this broad thing I wanted to do.
Cause I knew, knew I needed to change them. We have like a very info high tick by tickety model for our current business. I knew I needed to change it for going up market.
Like the pricing model had to be different. And I just, it just dawned on me. Like I've just made this assumption.
I've had to do sales. Like what other industries would even be better for this? And lo and behold, there was like a bunch.
So I think that was a thing. And also, you know, I heard Eddie say this, Eddie Maloof is, you know, the reason he's able to scale so big is he's scaled more horizontally than he has vertically, which in services, it is very tough to like, just keep scaling and scaling and scaling. It's not kind of like what you do where, you know, you can do a low ticket and then get totally better economics and all of this stuff.
And I mean, I've had, I had a taste of that. Like when we had the three offers ripping, at full steam we did crack a seven million cash collected month but the problem uh problem was is none of them related to the same kind of like mission yeah you know and so i had a taste of that and i was kind of thinking about eddie said and i was like you know i think that i have the distribution of sales directors i know i can create marketing for it and i've managed that before so going horizontal like that i think is like the play like i think that's what's going to allow us to do it and you know there's tons of companies amazon etc like they grow through teams of teams or like companies within companies so it just clicked and it's also something like that sounds cool to me yeah like when i look back do i really want to i just don't want to look back when i'm 80 and be like a sales guru that's just not my thing yeah i'm much more of like a business guy like i like high -powered like intellectual stuff that sales isn't it's just to me that just i don't feel like i'm growing in that path
so this also is something i'm like i'm like excited about this yeah but i think the big things you asked what do i need to change number one with this content side which is important i just need to get in a rhythm enough to do it in less time right which i'm sure is going to happen the more i do it because right now it's like my whole week's just content yeah yeah thankfully i have a good team yeah because like my whole week is just content writing youtube videos writing scripts writing this writing that and filming so i need to collapse that time and i think a lot of it is just i uh do you know tommy mellow so i he lives over there right so we're neighbors we got connected i went out to dinner with him doing 600 million a year i won't say his earnings numbers but ridiculous ridiculous like crazy profit margins um just total Beast and the thing I left from that conversation and he recommended me some books to read too I actually went over his house we played some Golden Tee great guy um is I was like man like a lot of this stuff that's just leadership CEO good processes Etc um like we probably like I'm as we go through this we're going to need to get that down and just have a better like not more corporate but
kind of like that type of systems coming in place. Like the book he recommended, it was very good. You could read it in one sitting as it's called a five X CEO.
And essentially it's a study. across like a lot of private equity companies and their ceos and kind of similar like good to great they analyzed all these ceos that were under private equity companies who got put in when the company was acquired and they looked at the top 10 percentile of the ceos that predictably across multiple different companies have produced above a certain amount of return or like a mi uh mo moic and what they did different and they just interviewed all of them and the private equity companies have done the same thing and then they distilled it down into five things so that was uh interesting it's a good book dude you can read it in like i read it in saint bars in two days it's a good book interesting yeah mine is very much so leadership people like the biggest thing i think last year was like understanding all this and we i could not have seen clearly to anything yeah like it was more of the same it was just literally more of the same uh and i was like oh we can get it to 100 that way and then we that you know stick around 30 margin do 30 million you know bottom line and just like sail off to the sunset essentially and like super unrealistic for any type of exit any type of any like any situation without multiple product lines without multiple you know brand face risk without like the consistency of revenue too did you i'll send you a clip but did you see the hermosi clip talking about one of the companies that we've talked about on this podcast that
uh they're huge in health but you know he knows the guy and basically just because they're all dr and their revenue fluctuations go up and down depending on the front end offers they can't sell yeah yeah yeah so i need to get away from that yeah um but like brand face ecom yeah yeah yeah so i feel good about the plan now like very clear on the plan now it just needs to happen and that is very clearly the skill gap like i don't know how to even put it into words necessarily but like i feel like i've always done the like trencher like even the whole personal brand is like it's raw it's like i'm in it with you i'll stay up till two in the morning and build the thing like i'm in the weeds and all this stuff but that's also um in a leadership capacity or like a connection capacity the same so like it's very difficult to even like have a difficult conversation or like an authoritative in the personal brand stuff or in the team or whatever because i've always just been like in in it with everyone never like this and that also comes from kind of how the company changed and cap table shifts and leadership shifts and like co -founder co -owner like that kind of stuff and like we have super like amazing partners an amazing team but there hasn't really been like the the structural like hierarchy of
like leadership necessarily. So then to lead leaders when it's kind of was like a little messy on that, but then people in the right seats, you know, reporting cadence meeting cadence like it stuff sounds so stupid but like it's very impactful um and that hasn't existed so like i feel like i feel like i have not been a leader of leaders all of last year and because i didn't have the skill to do it and it's like you know under construction but that is like by far the unlock and i started doing all this stuff with wop and it's like oh we need all this team and this and this i'm like it's the same issue everywhere i go which is like the ability to recruit onboard and lead slash manage leaders and like replace yourself out of that division and actually like continue to have the mission through get the numbers you want oh you see this and this cool shift and it actually shifts without you having to go in it and like like that is a huge disconnect for me right now and this is partially self -inflicted because I do think I have the team to actually I compliment you on this all the time I was talking about you last night and I was like I
from interactions i've had with your team and then also there are two uh two people at the table that um are in uh eight figure boardroom and they were like yeah like oh this guy and this guy and like they talk so highly of your team and i like i just call you weapon that's why i would call you when i just yeah well that's my quick words but like your team here i have a little pyramid framework and it's if you want to build a seven figure business you can probably do that by yourself if you want to build an eight figure business you probably need a couple good like seven figure level entrepreneurs and what i mean by that is people who they might not be entrepreneurs right or like that people misconceive what I'm trying to say but they're people who like they're talented enough to where you're like man if this person really wanted to do it they could probably create a seven -figure business so they get eight figures you got to have a few like seven -figure caliber people you know in terms of their skill sets they might not have the mindset to go off and do it on their own but they're kind of like that then they get to
Beyond that, so what was that? Seven figures, just you. Eight figures, you probably need a couple seven -figure people.
I'm assuming to get to multiple eight figures, you need a lot of seven -figure people. And then, well, I'm already at multiple eight figures. So you need a lot of seven -figure people.
And then maybe one or two, like, potential eight -figure people. To get to nine figures, I'm assuming you need three or four, like, eight -figure level people. And then you need...
a ton of seven figure so look at like when i was at hermosi's office i mean you got to think like sharon he's a not i mean he's a nine figure guy yeah right so layla nine figure person those are people who can take it to a billion and they probably have some other people at that level or close then like i mean so many people on their team it's like i mean there was literal people on their team and just managerial roles who are like yeah i exited like a home services company for 30 million this just sounded fun and i'm like okay well if you have people like that yeah and just mid -management which not even like like exactly like the top i'm like that's like mid -management well okay no wonder you're doing the revenue you're doing yeah and that's why i kind of like what i just said like it all kind of just a circle and then it's like oh it's back to me like it's back to it or you know it's you then the person we talked about right amazing person that was on our team yeah i got an opportunity over you know there and
Think of the things, right? It's like comp, probably not better actually at all. The person that's like their leader, me versus that.
They're going to learn way more. Right? They're going to learn way more.
It's a better leader. It's a better like... in osmosis from the organization yeah that's a big part and that's like how do you become that right and it's like that's why i look at me or when i'm like oh how would you change like how are you because like it's the proximity to you it's the the vision you have the the all the things of you in order to continue to get more talent like that and continue to raise the bar because as you're doing this you're raising that yeah you're getting even more people then yeah comps there and yeah this is there but like it's you as like a person being the driving force of that to even get that type of talent and then retain that talent like i just had that's an example of i didn't retain the talent because apples to apples it's not even close right now and like it can get there but it's not yeah yeah and that that's how i'm like thinking of things you're further along i think that you're giving yourself credit for because you i know some people on your team you do have good people very good and you at least have you're especially because what you did on youtube you you're known enough
and like warrior babies now because the issue with what the nice thing about my business is if it gets bigger i kind of some you know part of my business is marketing my like if we're doing 60 million let's say i'm gonna market that i'm doing that because i'm working with other people in my industry does that make sense yeah it's kind of like because i'm helping the average coach and my or a service agency so the lessons i learned along the way so i kind of sell for like naturally self -market more success which is a huge advantage right but um the issue if you're not on social building your brand is that nobody i don't even know what warrior was never heard of it yeah never even heard of it i'm like i don't know what that is yeah you know and i know a lot of stuff but then when you started making content now i know what it is so that'll also help you recruiting and then your leadership and retention you know you just get better at that over time yeah you need to get better at that have you met uh brandon poyen from uh ladyboss i connected but no uh
if you go into the e -comm side and like kind of the brand influencer side, he lives, he lives over there and great guy and be a good connection for you. Cause he's wicked, man. They're so good.
Yeah. A lot of learning lessons there. So I'm curious, fun topic, but what are the most, this has all been fun banger.
I know this is a fun topic. What are the most banger just business models in the space that you've seen? And by the way, if you like this content and you want to come to our next event where I'm gathering all entrepreneurs, people like Ryan, and we're talking about what's working in the industry, what's not working in the industry and the lessons that we've learned scaling to over a hundred million in total revenue.
We have an event coming up in our eight figure border mastermind. If you want to know more information about that, you can click the link in the description and it'll tell you all about it. Just can be like random.
I'll give you one to kind of, as you're thinking about it. So like, cause if I had to start, if I had to start another business and it couldn't be recruiting, Right.
Because part of the reason I actually had the idea I had is I was like, if I had to start another business in this space, what would it be? And I was like, I could probably just do recruiting and just do it for a different industry. And then I started thinking about it.
But I'll give you a random one is I've noticed because I have so many just interesting clients. Some of the most banger offers I've seen are legal. Yeah.
So I was going to say financial one is gets people out of timeshares contracts. so it's a lawyer legal type of offer over 10 million a month right another one that's like some sort of immigration attorney i don't know exactly how to explain what they do but um i think they're on the east coast banger i mean i don't know what the numbers are but i know how many recruits we give them and it's a lot yeah so those are two that and like if you had the right partner I feel like it's very doable to do that.
Yeah. I mean, you think like what are the, what are the functions you want? You want like ideally an insane LTV and you want to be able to use direct response.
And I think the thing is you want B2B because I think it's so much. I want like B to high net worth C like is my model. That's what I'm saying.
B2B caveat accessible through ads. Yes. for us correct you know i mean like we're not correct you don't have to do that for our skill set that i look at the same i've talked about like how i would if i was to go from scratch and i actually tried to do this and just wasn't evolved enough and i don't know the partnership and whatever it was maybe the model it should have been but the anything you can touch in financial world that you can direct response.
So an example of this, and I want to call her name out, but it was like an inner circle, early member. Russell was around the time of lady boss. It was around the time of the hormones.
Like it was around that era. There was someone else who was in that group and they did a direct to cart, uh, auto web. that was just hammering.
And to my understanding, it was basically just liquidation. It was like a 2K offer and it was just liquidating. And then they came in and then inside there, it was like, oh, and then there's this, I'm like giving away all their shit if I say all these things, but whatever.
It's like there's a safe. There's a safe in here. It's like this mechanism.
And it's like, oh, you gotta use the safe in order to do it. And the safe was whole life insurance. Right.
So all these guys are whole life insurance agents. They're then having massive policies because they're then teaching you how to use that for then real estate investment. Right, right, right.
Use your dollar twice, all this stuff. So they're liquidating free acquisition. cult absolute community cult and then for it was like a fund for short -term rentals it was rehab for this it was real estate it was like boom boom boom stuff like that would be good so oh my god like the commissions on whole life it's like okay there's some fun ltv then the fun then this then that and then it goes like the next layer when you have the right type of community or like buyers essentially They need estate attorneys.
They need someone for AUM. They need all of this. Certain industries have certain caveats on what you can get paid on as percents versus CPAs and all these deals, but you could essentially have a partner network through that.
It would print. There's Paradigm Life. I always forget the other one.
It's not NerdWallet. There's the one that's Cashflow. There's three or four of these guys that then have a core book funnel for consumption, and they hammer.
and do like serious size yeah in terms of basically just cash like just just profit good yeah i would i would for sure get into that i like the legal stuff because you know what's funny is when i listen to that john morgan podcast and you do know who he is right yeah so he's like a big democratic donor and then listen to the podcast i'm like man this guy does not sound like a democrat like he's like loves making money he's like i want to hunt money you know like all this stuff i'm like oh that's interesting and then i started to think about it and i'm like oh i get it oh yeah reason that he you know and a lot of lawyers are is because you know democrats favor regulation or so the republicans do you know so non -political but that's just what they do now if you're a lawyer you want more regulation because it's more business yeah and frankly the issue is is we very rarely deregulate despite i think it being a worthy goal we very rarely do that and the trend's probably only going to continue so getting into that sector it's almost just a guaranteed you know as long as it's specialized and
there has to be a specialized knowledge around it because obviously with ai you know the big caveat oh you're going to be able to do blah blah it has to be some sort of specialized moat around it yeah and i'm not sure if like the timeshare people or whatever have that or not but that would be what you would have to look into but that's why i like that from a trend standpoint you know i think i i see and hear about a lot of these companies now that i'm like in in wap and working in this space and like get to hear you know from the sales guy or whatever's happening and it is remarkable some people who are using like sections of how we run the business like we do a lot of stuff evergreen everything we do everything evergreen right it's like constantly happening you constantly need to have team like all of this there are so many guys like so many that'll do one or two maybe launches a year these huge launches and they'll do like five seven whatever like basically in profit almost all and then they just spend their life like living and that and they just run this gambit and it's either a new offer or it's the you know two point or whatever version and like i'm talking like the imans and what like he has a cadence and he does his thing and it's these new offers and they but like i'm talking guys who literally are like an offer
one time a year yeah five to seven million bucks and then just like just chill just good and they have this much time and fulfillment that's locked they have so then they only have you know team for this amount of time they have a little bit of ads for this amount of time and then it's like that's it that's it and then they move the cash around which you also do a really good job of like i feel like multiple times i've heard you're partnered in this company or you invest in this kind of different spaces and vectors so random like but i've had good success with doing that but it's a lot of just instinct it's you had like actual liquidity from any of them actual what like like liquidity from them like if you had like you know what were you yesterday we're talking about one where you're like oh is that this value when uh i came in this next round is going to be at this amount so there's there's three major ones that i have if i have any others then they didn't work i guess there's four that i can think of that i know are working
uh but i haven't done like a ton of venture stuff so there's school obviously with that there's not going to be any um liquidity or whatever yeah like i just i just did an angel round i was basically the first person outside of the immediate people from consulting .com i did not know that so yeah and i put in 500 grand so that was great and then um go home as you go so that could i know that could literally it's kind of kind of depressing in a way but i'm i'm happy i'm i'll take the depression is that could make me more money than is that crazy well it will i don't think it'll make me more money than by the time it exits or there's some sort of liquidity i don't think it'll make me more money than i've ever made in business but i mean very close which is pretty crazy like in terms of what my liquid net worth is now versus what that could potentially be pretty crazy but yeah when i heard about the herbosy thing i was like pumped thank you this is amazing and then the launches i'm like let me know anything yes so you guys are good it's been great sam's brilliant yes and there's sales kick and then there's dialer uh well there's update which is the drink company that was a venture deal i did um i don't know if i can say the numbers publicly but whatever it's like at a 7x now and they just brought on an ultra ultra famous person and so i think that one's going well
And then there's my more active ones are SalesKick and Dialer. So those, if you're talking about liquidity, like if they do pay distributions, like I'm a partner. They do?
If they do pay them, but like obviously with tech, you're reinvesting into devs and whatever. So I'm not like expecting anything, nor do I care. But those have just done really well.
You know, I've obviously helped them send clients, but they're also good products, you know, by themselves. And they're really, really good teams by themselves. And those are both like, they're not, there's no burn.
They're both profitable. Which is good. Yeah, I mean obviously at like a tech company a lot of times it doesn't happen and I don't see I Mean, I feel like they both have a straight shot at Success, you know I think the only question is the magnitude of success that they're going to have and I think that's a good place to be I think they're gonna both do really well, but you know, I don't have like a framework for it It's just like stuff comes up and it just makes sense.
Yeah, and just relationships i didn't know that school and that's hilarious that was uh that was lucky yeah but yeah i just went i met you know i i knew sam we we met a couple of times and then when he asked me to invest i mean this was way before it even had the traction it has now like only a few people from like quantum were on it and you know some other people yeah i just sam's just legitimately the smartest person I feel like I've ever met in my entire life.
So I was just like, I'm just betting on Sam. Here you go. All roads lead back to ovens in some way.
That's where I met Luke. That's also where I got started in the industry. So I started with Consulting Accelerator.
Tried to start a Facebook ads agency. Groupthink. That's what everybody was doing in that program.
Just mimetic desire. It's just like, you see somebody else doing it, you're like, I think that's what I want to do. I bought Uplevel as the first one because they were like X amount of time in where they were willing now to sell it direct instead of just Ascension.
And I got in there and was like, oh, this is me productizing the thing that I didn't do. And I was like, I'm not going to be confronting or something. It was really eye -opening for me too when I got it.
What happened to your YouTube content? Because you haven't posted in four months. I did.
I posted on December 20. I think with like a kind of year in review and year future. So the whole point of YouTube for me was what I say in the beginning of every single one, which is like talent opportunities network.
Yes. And talent literally meant so we could hire for the businesses and or any other future venture thing, which does work like just purely through the reach. But like it almost works like not the person is.
a like a fall in the in the following or whatever it's more so it's like oh they know someone so like when i started doing that i went 35 days and had like 300 subscribers and i had gone 35 days in a row yeah and like i was getting like a couple hundred random views and all this but like i had brooke hitting had seen my videos and is in my and like we're dming yeah tan like it was people doing one, two, 5 million a month that are just seeing my crazy little niche things.
But like, I'm like, I seriously had like a couple hundred followers and I would always tell everyone to DM me on Instagram. And I like, I had an ex account where that was my name, but it was just like empty. And it was just sitting there.
I like tried to do some and to zoom back even further on this. And then I'll promise I'll get to your, why did I stop? But I have followed Iman.
I followed you Iman and a couple others in similar caliber for no joke, probably. eight years like 10 like i've watched everything you've ever put out yeah i've watched everything iman ever put out like i knew who all you guys were and like watch all your stuff without knowing any of you um obviously yeah and when it was time i was like i need to do this in some capacity because i saw iman talking about like xyz and i was like i'm gonna pay iman i'm just gonna do that so i paid him like 18 grand and you get an onboarding call at this thing.
He could only do it at this time or it was gonna be in two weeks. I'm like, I wanna do this now. Took a call at three in the morning because it was Dubai time for like him.
So three o 'clock Eastern, woke up at like 2 .30, made a pot of coffee, like sat down and had my hour with Ima. Never met him before, never talked to him. And he's like, oh, this and this and this.
And I'm an advocate of what, like all these things. And it all basically just came down to like long form organic YouTube niche pocket. do it on x as well just worry about those two the other one's kind of like social cloud playing like instagram and you can get a couple thousand followers on both and then basically just make a couple million bucks doing like consulting deals it was like essentially the framework and i was like all right cool and he's like dude these content this way and i went through his whole thing and it was like high production and this and that and he's it's it's so in -depth and he's got like his content guy and they teach all the stuff inside that 18k program and i'm like I'm not fucking, there's no way I'm doing this.
There's no way I'm doing this. And so I just started, I was like, I'm just going to fill like a little bank of them and do a video a day. Cause I have all these ideas right now of what I could talk about.
And then I'll go into that. And so I just was like a loom video, a loom video. And all these guys started reaching out and we're like, Oh, get the, get screen studio instead of loom.
It makes it look better for this. And like, Oh, get this mic and just put it on your desk. And it's like 300, but whatever, just do it one time.
And so I started doing those. So I then did that for 35 days. And like, again, a couple of core people are reaching out and a lot of people are DMing.
And when I say a lot, it's like, 100 to 200 of my 300 people are like in my dms on instagram and i'm answering everything yeah like oh do you charge for this or oh my god how are you not more like whatever yeah and this kid kept going back and forth with me so i'm on day 35 i'm literally i literally sent a text that morning that was like i'm gonna stop doing this like almost embarrassed like kind of embarrassing like that i'm doing this and nobody on my team no one at all and uh i'm on a golf course it was first time i left the house i went golfing with my buddies and i like refreshed my google studio or my youtube studio thing and it was like this on the views and i was like oh i finally hit like an outlier because that's what they talk about it's like how do you do this perfect video that gets picked up by the algorithm right yeah and uh i go on instagram and one of the kids that i was dming back and forth with and i call him a kid he's like because he's like 21 or something and he's like i'm about to put you on bro
and I had been going back and forth with him and like chatting and like and trying to how I do whatever and He posted a screenshot of my here the three offers that we used to do to get to 30 million year or whatever And he posed it on an X and it went like nuclear in like money Twitter land Yeah, I didn't even have Twitter on my phone download it.
I have like 1 ,500 2 ,000 follower. I've like it's a dead account I'm like trying to put my like YouTube link in the bio. I'm like trying to I'm like I'm not playing these with these couple holes and I'm like fixing everything up.
And in three days or something like that, I went from 300 and like a hundred to 3000 on both and had 3000 then subscribers. That was like this little honeypot. And I just was like, boom, I'm in like, so then I went another 30 days of doing just like me videos.
And then I felt like I like knew a lot of people now are getting connected. So I did an Eddie Maloof interview, popped off highest video. I was like, Oh, I'm gonna do this.
So now I had access to everyone made a dream 100 and was like, I want Cole and I want Ema and I want that. And then I went through the interview. So circuit with random ones when I couldn't get somebody on for a day I would literally be like are you free today at two and they're like yeah I'm like cool all right so like that's my video for the day phew yeah and then if not it was a 5 a .m and I'm making a video on some random topic of like what's happening now yeah and that was it for four months and I tried to stop at 100 and I up and went to a 101 and I was like shit I was going to stop at 90 and then I was supposed to stop at a hundred and I was on it and I messed it up.
So I was like, I can't stop at like one or two. So I was like, what's the next logical number? It's like four months straight, one 20.
So I went to one 20 and then I stopped. Oh, nice. I need some oxygen.
And then that's when the event circuit thing started. So then you invited me, Jeremy invited me, like all these guys like invited me to their events. And I was like, okay, now I'm going to take it to in real life and I'm going to go meet everybody or like all the cool people.
So then I did that. And then that was cool. But then I wasn't doing videos at that time.
And then frankly, I just like got out. like i then everyone the team like it became like this whole thing and then i had access to everyone i had 10k like it just kind of drifted to 10k 12k 50 whatever it is on on both and i was like okay like i i did what i wanted to do like i found my little niche pocket of people i got a talent the thing with talent is we're kind of getting away from internet marketing broey and it's very internet marketing broey like the talent pool that i get so like it's very difficult like i said for like a sales director for example i can't hire like one of these a lot of a lot of like the really good sales directors in our world because like it is not a match with culture and with target it just doesn't really work there are people for sure but like so talent pretty good i can definitely make a post and get a lot of like creative strategists i post and it's like boom 200 new yeah like cool um opportunities i denied everything which is another very i don't know i still i'm not
i'm not solid on if i should have or could have like i definitely could have if i should have but i got like equity offers and yeah share offers and oh yeah and and i'll pay 50k for a day and like all these things in my dms and i just said no to everything yeah i need to do a tweet one time that's like if i've ever denied your money in dm screenshot it and reply to this post and like it ha it has to be hundreds yeah where i've been like no like paid console this this this so i've said no to everything which like literally left hot like high hundreds on the table oh yeah easily and then uh so opportunities was kind of like okay oops and i and there were some that i should have done like advisory shares i probably could still but like i should have done something and then uh network that just meant like friends like i had no friend like i i have like my core like 15 year buddies that are like my five dudes that we've been you know close forever they're like my hometown friends but like i had nobody in the industry that i was like friends with or like i can't i can't talk to anybody about anything other than luke right who was like other co -founder and we would always you know we're in the business but i had nobody outside of that right except everything i consumed which was like all of your guys's stuff 10 hours a day or more on one screen on youtube videos of what everyone's talking about what's hot now and then i'm doing the actual building over here yeah
for years right so it worked and then i just kind of was like all right i'm good now and my new thought on it and plan was like i want to do weeklies like almost like journal style like what's happening now like what's working now what's not working i don't want to do daily i think that's i think that's smart and then i was like oh i'm going to do it and then i went to make a video and i made and i was like 20 minutes in and i was like what am i talking about and then i was like out of practice i was like all right i'm just gonna scrap this one and then i haven't done it so i i made like a whole mirror board and i was like all right so this is what we're working on now this is the focus and then i scrapped it and then i went and did a one with jeremy a week ago um kind of similar style to this but it's like two hours and it needs to be like clipped and edited and i don't have an editor because i just do everything raw If you wanted to do maintenance, you could do an end -of -month recap of what I've learned every single time and then do one podcast.
You could just do that and be fine. That's the arc right now. A couple more events.
I'm coming to your event with Sam. We're going to get two queens. Sam Sautter?
Good guy. I have to fly from there. I can only be there until the 27th because I'm going to go to Iman's in Dubai.
What's that like? Iman's events? If I had to rank events, i can't accurately do it in like order but i can so first off the audience and who are like the buyer the members i guess essentially um between like you because i look at it as you jeremy um yeah so you jeremy haynes iman and nick kind of has his thing it's looking like the core of like the top of sphere masterminds for our our space yeah um and i think i would imagine they're just different for different things different because i'm different they're all good different for different things different people in the room and yet really different for different like it would be beneficial to be in all of them and there's like probably 50 of it's that's like kind of the similar -ish but like each one has their niche so like i view yours as like obviously the sales function but it's like i tried to say this to you before but it's like it's like almost like uh it's it's closer to like smb or like real real business but still online like yeah not just internet marketing broey yeah um
it companies agencies um just it can be all over the map like sometimes like a solar company yeah uh but it's mostly coaches agencies consultants et cetera but it's all business owners not necessarily like dr experts or or probably different from iman like it's not influencers yeah it's people who mainly have like a sales team and they run out yeah so yours for that in community in like the the type the membership and then the event actual type yours is extremely high caliber which is like so in each one does it different yeah yours are like these cool locations last one i went to and i think it was a new structure but it was like half of the day is like content or like uh like speakers and the other half of the day is like networking with people we're going to do the thing and it's multi -day across and i was like oh that's a cool yeah and this one will be so much better because it's in scottsdale it's like okay what are we gonna do like you know get a bull yeah a mechanical bull or something whereas this one there's like snowboarding a speakeasy thing and then we'll be able to go around spend time here like it worked out well for me because i have people here so i could go do that the uh iman is next uh his is like profitability the events he talked he does like a full day breaking down the last event like at each one so like his big launch his big b2c launch he then reveals literally everything like
cost per this every like down here how we did this how we and then Jason generally comes as well and Jason was at the last one and briefs like exactly how they did like the entire kind of offer and like the whole pitch and that which is super valuable and cool and then he doesn't met like or continue on the member it's it's international it's very profit driven it's personal brand it's like that focus um and then the experience it's truly experience he does them in crazy places like i just went to that was when i was in cape town that's the first time i went to cape town cool he did it there the first one the other one was in london never been to london he rents out the entire space so he gets like the whole hotel yeah yeah yeah um which is cool because it's like just you guys that's a big i will say that's what we're shifting towards as well yeah because it it's so much better community so much and it's like the antithesis of that is doing it and let's say like vegas where everybody's incentivized to go outside of the hotel and there's all these other people at the hotel yeah and it's just way better if you have some somewhere where everybody's gonna stay there yeah
yeah 100 and so then the next one is for straight from your event because it's on march 1st i think um it's in like the desert in dubai like in this create they're at like boutique hotels basically oh so yeah it's super cool so um that's his um again super high caliber cool people in the room everyone's all you know very similar type of people and again very international which is a big difference than kind of these ones right and then the jeremy one is just hilarious so like cost wise first across this i think imans is probably 60 maybe a year now.
Cause it's like, it's in six month chunks. And like, he comes to an event plus the mastermind, um, yours is in like high, yeah. High into there, like close.
Um, and then Jeremy's has changed. Now it's like a hundred and something cause it's 10 K a month. Um, but forever it was like, it was one, two, three, four, five, six.
And then for a long time, it was around that same range. Um, but Jeremy's is like growth operators. it's the spenders it's like very paid ad focused land but it also it forever i feel like was a lot of uh vsl funnels because that was like but they shift on like what's hot now um or what's working well so like there's a lot of webinar guys there was a lot of there was actually a couple organic guys that went heavy um but his is like growth op and this and the spenders and the scalers and it's like those type of dudes his whole mentality is like this whole like get richer and like yeah he embodies that and he has shifted now to it used to be at He had this penthouse before and in the middle of the building, it was like an event center kind of thing.
So you could do the event there on one day and it's all speakers on one day. And then day two is just networking. So like everyone just comes to the same space, but it was at his penthouse.
So you go and you just post up there and it's all these dudes all just in his house for the entire second day. Now he got us, he got a space and it's sick. it's so cool it's like this like office thing has like this event center room he's got like games all over everything like it's super cool and it's that same structure so it's like day one all speakers and then day two that they do the cool stuff with the celebrations which is very cool there they do like million dollar months thing so the trophies so there's nine of them at the last one which is the most ever and then each one of those people go uh is one we just start doing that because we have like so many yeah you know?
Yeah. He's got a good group together. And we were talking, I think he said it on one of his things.
So I'm not like docs or anything, but like when he made the shift to like, it's just, it's a pretty serious shift to be like, Oh no, there's like 10 a month. Like you have to be a priest, like. um developed or like very serious about this situation to be like oh i'm gonna sign up for 10 a month every month oh yeah for his thing and it's quarterly events um but the last couple people that have come in have all been um one was like 60 one was like 120 and one was like 300 million a year and like these guys are trying to like either get into like they they clearly have a well done business and they either are interested in the direct response part they're interested in the personal brand part they're interested in the room and like who else they can meet um but he's curated a cool crowd um through because his his arc was like very it was cool yeah yeah yeah but yeah i view them all kind of like they are just very different um i'm trying to think what else i went to through that i went to an affiliate one that was super cool yeah that's totally different totally going to events that are just outside of like i want to go to i need to go to a recruiting event yeah and just network with all these corporate people yeah see what that's all about yeah private i've been trying to go to a private equity event i bought a ticket
It's supposed to be this amazing private equity, super high -level event. They have their event every single time at the time that I have my event. Three times in a row.
Every single time. And it's just, I book mine before they release their date. So the next one I want to go to is Dom Icovone guy.
Do you follow him yet? Yeah, yeah. I don't watch his content, but I've seen it.
Well, it's hard for me to watch because it's like day in the life, I think. So I'm kind of, that's too inefficient for me. I'm telling you double screen.
I throw something on there when I'm doing like stupid stuff. Like I, and I just like hear it going. It's it's solid.
And it's also like within health and fitness. So it's like, it's like more in my best stuff. Info diet for you right now.
So to close that with him, he has one now that he launched. It's info coaching. Okay.
And the last two. have been when i've had other events and couldn't go sure and the next one i have my first uh event that i'm doing oh wow through and with wop for like the hot like that whole thing right and we are going to move the date now we haven't announced it and we're like very set on a date and we're like oh let's give it more time for this and this and better weather and new york and all stuff so we're moving it so i'm like oh i get to go to that finally nice so i'm hopeful to go to that uh but info diet right now is I've always watched like a lot of whore I feel like the hormones II stuff right now is I don't wear the live streams Are they inside the I think you got to catch them and then you got to go to live yeah because i can't they splice it and put it back yeah so i don't like the splices so like i like the i want to watch them and i like to consume that and like i i would the dave ramsey style the cardone style now he's doing it like i wish i could do that which is not efficient for me in order to have anywhere to send anyone but like that would be my dream format as a person oh my god yeah if i could just go for it it's hard to get the views though
it's very hard that's what i mean it depends though like if you think about it like pbd does it but it's a political podcast so totally different niche and weirdly you don't want to hear something interesting so what patrick bet david did i don't know if he looked at the comedians but the comedians essentially what happened was is they realized if they talked about current events in politics they could sell out their shows like crazy because obviously if you go off current events in politics and you do comedy around it you're going to get way more views yeah right and so a lot of times they actually that's where a lot of them have drifted and then they just sell out crazy amounts of shows he's the only guy that did that with business and i do wonder if he looked like offers if he looked at um you know the comedians and modeled that i think it was also he was just interested in that and that's what he does but he does the live streams i mean dave ramsey does that's a little i mean he's been doing it so long he's a and then i don't know if there's any other like business i mean hormosi i guess but he already had a huge audience i don't know if there's any other business streamers yeah that really crushes he's another example i i would have to i wish there was a way
maybe i have a screenshot somewhere but i seriously i watched hormosia like a couple thousand followers i was on youtube yeah like i had bought like gym launch i was like we were in that space i read gym launch secrets yeah that's what i'm saying what happened was is i had a client who was an agency and they were like dude we bought gym launch read gym lunch secrets listen to the podcast and i'm like well dude it's gyms and they're like dude it doesn't matter like this guy's the best and i was like even though it's for gyms he's like it's just the best for everything.
And I was like, oh, okay. I listened to like two and I was like, oh yeah, this guy's the best and just binged all of his stuff. And then this is how much of a gritty, like obsessed information person I am.
That same person and another client, both agencies. This is when he was launching Allen. So he was working with agencies more and they were like, yeah, we did a one -on -one 50K consulting with them.
And I was like, dude, what's it going to take for me to get the recording of that? Cause like, you know, he didn't have like a lot of business. It was still mainly gyms.
It's like, what's it going to take for me to get the recording of that? And I bartered sales reps away to get those recordings. I just gave them free sales reps and in exchange, I got two different four hour.
And they were, what was so cool about that is that I learned so much. Like those videos were insanely insightful at the time. Cause like I learned all of like a lot of his core frameworks.
before even the books or like his main youtube content came out which was uh super helpful yeah i just remember where i lived at the time which had it was probably 2021 because i bought the book it was the same place i just started yeah i bought the uh i have a picture uh next to we just got the click funnels 1 million or the one comic club or whatever club um but yeah he uh So to go to his content now, the live stream stuff, I think I would like the most.
I see the clips. I don't like the short form, like random bit size stuff, like how they do like super small cuts of it. Like that has like taken over a lot of like the subscription feed on you.
So like, I don't like those. And I try and like avoid those because I want the longer form stuff. I like yours.
um his when it's like an actual topic based which generally is better actually on podcasts i've found now because i don't see them as frequent on youtube when i go to find them his because he has great podcasts that are like the 30 minute video that i feel like i don't see the video that matches that anymore which is interesting and i don't know if that's algo or different cuts or what um but i i've watched everything he does i think it's been a pivotal part of like how i think of business overall system and like everything i talk about with like oh like growth levers and bottlenecks like that is an assimilation right of like how i've consumed from that um one of your videos the where i really like started taking more of your like b2b or like your like macro video where you're like here's how i basically like how I shifted.
That one was really good for me to see when you're like multi port code and here's how we're shifting this. Yeah. That was a good video.
That was a good one. The one where you talked about. Okay.
So you watched some of mine, you watched some of Hermosi's, but what's the other, give me the other info guy sources. Info guy sources? Info diet.
Just, it could be anything. I'm pretty bad right now. There's my first million.
I'll give you mine. My first million founders. Founders.
Founders, hormones. I'm trying to think outside of our zone. I'm so in our zone.
It's crazy. I have some direct response ones that I go hard on. Who?
It's like I have like og things that I've uploaded into AI that I like personalized now for like now like a gore big black But like I do those because I try and do that and then because all the stuff with WAP I'd like See who's doing it now kind of and like hear about who's doing it now, right? Not like oh, what's their actual but like I hear the names and then I go in like these rabbit holes Yeah, I'll give you so founders podcast acquire podcast.
Yeah is really good You don't like it? I don't love the format.
I think you've got to listen to the right episodes. Listen to the one on meta, and then tell me you don't like it. Okay.
Because I did listen to it. I did try it, and I don't know why I didn't get into it. And then I listened to the meta one, and I was like, fuck, this is really good.
I think if you just pick and choose. You might not care about Coca -Cola. They just did one on that.
But the meta one is really good, and I'm sure the Google one is really good too. But that's the next one I'm doing. Um, the other thing, and I got this inspired from the founders podcast.
So, I mean, I do all the same stuff. Like I'm, I'm looking at her Mosey, Jeremy Haynes, you know, I'll watch your videos. I'll watch anybody, Daniel Isles.
I'll watch, um, yeah, I don't watch like everybody's videos, but if it's something like, um, I kind of just scan it to see like, is there going to be something I can pick up here and then I will watch it. Um, so I try to pick up things from the info industry, YouTube. It's kind of tough.
right i think books wise the best books and i would recommend this for you too is books on management leadership etc because a lot of times when you read the sales and marketing books they don't really transfer to our industry that well but management almost everything transfers so you know you got the high output management uh out outsiders which is all those capital allocators that are really good that's a good one uh you know you got good to great all the jim collins ones but just the management books are really good and then inspired from founders i started reading a lot of biographies and i will say i do not know why i did not do that sooner for two reasons number one book wise because it's a narrative and a story and if you read the right ones you will consume so much more information and you retain all everything you learn you'll retain way better because it's like story base yeah and the other thing is is like the ideas you can get from it are really good like i read jensen wong's nvidia way it's not his book but it's a book about nvidia and there's just like so much like just how they essentially like i don't know if you know this but nvidia actually created the category name of gpus no i did not so they own the category of you know it's just a category creation thing but they
Crazy lessons behind that. There's also just how he manages his people. He tortures them into greatness.
So there's a whole frame around that. He's so freaking intense and just calls people out. All the criticism is public.
So he believes that if you get criticism one -on -one, you're just wasting a learning opportunity for everybody else. But that has to be imbued into your culture. He also has 60 direct reports, which really made me rethink, okay, that's the most valuable company in the world.
I've always had this eight to 12 direct report rule. Am I going to go to 60? No.
But is there ways I can break that in certain departments or for certain things? And is there ways I can create more leverage? So that's like, and you can get, and I can retain those ideas so much better because I hear the stories and the narratives around it.
And also just for like inspirational and mindset type of stuff, it's the best. Like it helps so much. And then I've trended, you'll find this funny.
into political biographies and like uh basically just like general american history which i would not say that has like a direct business impact but i'm just like super interested in it and there is like i mean sam par always says right like he's super into that stuff to be i know i actually want to have a podcast with him just to talk about that stuff because i read there's a four five book series on linda b johnson so combined it's probably 5 000 pages i read the entire thing in a month and dude it's phenomenal it's one of the i mean it's just some of the best books ever yeah but also there is lessons you can take from him in terms of stuff that will apply to business because that guy grew up in the hill country of texas like as poor as you can go and basically rose to the most powerful person in the world which is some is a pretty crazy story yeah that's the when you're sitting the reporting piece the i was talking to cam co -founder of wap and he was like yeah like who reports to you and i already sent me some things like who it was about reporting structure and it's like who reports to you i'm like oh this is this and he's like like what reports do they send you
It's like, what do you mean? No, like, no, like nothing like there. And he's like, no, no, no.
Like the whole, that's the whole point is like the reporting up to you. Like you're not going in and like into each section to get it. Like they're reporting up to you.
And he's like a super simple concept, but like, why aren't they sending you reports? And like, you think about it, you're like, oh, my sales on today's or my this or this. And I was like, that's so funny.
Like a leadership standpoint. It's like, where do you have visibility or where are they like rising through the information? But the more meta thing here is you're saying about reading.
I have like, you look at my setup and it's like all books around. Those books are from 15 years old to 20. five probably when i did the puerto rico stint and i stopped buying physical books because i had moved so many times it was like miserable yeah the hardest part of moving is to like prove to move all the books and then i moved into ipad and like did a little bit there and then my life was just like nope and then it went all digital like not even like reading like just digital like consumption through audio or through this or this and when i live in puerto rico it would be three or five mile walks a day and i would just listen to audible that's when i went backwards on my first million because they weren't releasing enough and that's what i literally would to every my first million back to one yeah because i like they weren't producing them fast enough for how quick i was consuming them um and i just got out of it and i literally haven't read a physical book in a very very long time i grabbed like three of them like a steve jobs or start with the jensen huang one or the steve jobs biography yeah because it'll get you way back into it yeah it's there's so much better to read of course i grabbed like traction eos is i'll read each morning like 40 minutes out of a biography
and then i'll just throw in a quick 10 to 15 minutes on a business book because i will admit even though those business books might be more helpful dude they're like kind of boring kind of like what i hate is shifting through a bunch of that i already know yeah or i'm not going to use yeah just define like the one or two tactics whereas like if you're reading one big story it's just generally there's these chapters generally it is interesting all the way through yeah so do you talk about your like I didn't know that about you, and I feel like I had consumed a lot of content, and I didn't realize.
We were at the last event you had here in Arizona. It's time for the dinner on whatever that was, probably like night one, night two, and we're talking real quick, and you're like, yeah, I'm just saying goodbye. I'm like, what?
And it's like 8 o 'clock. Oh, yeah, I got there early. And everyone is just now starting, and drinks are starting to flow, and I'm not really into the night culture and stuff anymore either, but 8 o 'clock, I was like, okay, everyone's just getting food, and you were done.
And you were, and you were leaving and you gave me the brief on that. And I found that so interesting and clearly I didn't embody it enough, but like my mornings are, if I have my, my like dream setup is. four like when i wake up for the first time which is like three four or five right i'm like jazzed about something i get up and like i have all those hours where it's just me and then stuff starts at like eight nine where people start to like message and that is when i've built anything that is when i've like felt the best of my life and you do something similar but you like have like a re a reading regimen every night that's just when we like to go to bed and it's when i get tired um But sometimes, I mean, yeah, if I stay up longer, I don't, I think that day you're talking about, I mean, I had to wake up the next day.
So if it was the last day of the event, I'll kind of like, I know, but if it's the last day of the event, I'll stay up a little later, you know, but other than that, I'm going to bed at eight, eight 30 is like pushing it. And then I wake up at four 30. And then, so what I do is my first call is not going to be till eight tops, sometimes eight 30, sometimes nine.
And so I'll get my workout in, but like I wake up just through. You work out in the morning? Yeah.
And then I just, I read for almost like usually 90 minutes every single morning. That's great. But it's a nice thing because when you wake up, you're kind of too tired sometimes to do anything.
So it's a nice way to just kind of like wake up slowly. Yeah, you need those multi -screens. And also if I don't do it in the morning, I won't do it.
And so, but what I do is, so like, yes, from 4 .30 till whenever I have to go work out, I'll just read. Now, the thing is, though, is what I do is if I'm behind on stuff, I can just ax that entire morning and just work.
So there's some days, there's one day this week because I was a little bit behind. Where legitimately from, I might've read for like a half hour, but then from five or five 15 to, I don't know, whenever it was like eight, I just worked the entire time and I can even push my workout into the afternoon. It just depends on my day.
So like, if I'm like, I really got to get some shit done. I'll just maybe skip my workout that day or I'll push it to the afternoon and I'll just take three hours in the morning, which as you know, is almost like five and a half hours of normal in the daytime because nobody's up. Yeah.
So, yeah. Yeah. That's, I just don't have the right, like at your event, I was, I left one of the mornings at two something.
I left at like one something. And then with this time zone, I was having lunch. go crazy yeah and it wasn't even like party mode it was like people were just like talking and cigars some people are drinking yeah we were like sitting out by a fire and just yapping and cigars and doing our thing but then i have you know with the time zone i was having meetings at like five in the morning like i looked at my aura i slept like eight hours for the entirety of the event like like it was it was hilarious um but i can't function like that yeah that has to compound so well the mornings like that, the time like that.
Well, and I will say, if I had been doing this routine and just reading in the morning for the last 10 years, I mean, the amount of stuff I would have read and how that knowledge would have compounded, just about anything, even the political history stuff I like. I'm super into economics and like right now it's just so nerdy, but I'm literally reading a book about just the history of capitalism.
And this book, I was joking with my fiance this morning. I literally have to, there's times where I'll read a paragraph. and it's so fucking dense i'll have to chat gpt what the fuck i just read for like 20 minutes and but it's i mean it's like i'm reading about like the mercantilism age so like in the 1600s and you know all the policy that affected kind of the trade and what capitalism was like back then and then it moves into different eras i just like that stuff like i read a whole book on austrian economics i just think that stuff's interesting yeah so i probably should read more i'm trying to shift it a little okay i gotta get to like all the business biographies and and double down on that but i'm also just kind of following my interest yeah a little bit but imagine if i've been doing that for 10 years yeah all the stuff i would know yeah it's uh pretty crazy yeah i yeah i don't know my thing is i just don't even like i have to have something exciting i want to do the whole like plan your tomorrow tomorrow today and like rigid and all that like that was probably the most
i was like dialed in was that era of time where it was like oh i know exactly what's happening like i open my eyes i'm like oh i know what exactly what i'm supposed to be doing at 5 15 and like granted it was not sitting there and reading for an hour and a half and probably compounding the right way it was like oh cool pot of coffee and like hit it but i would go from three four five in the morning until those eight nines and then i work out middle of the afternoon because it's like if not i'll fall asleep and it's like my re yeah my re -up and then back into it but it's been it's been intense i've done the 16 18 hour no joke actual like at the desk and we all know that's not the most productive land ever but like it's just pure activity and there's a lot of stuff that does come good in there but it's probably a lot of waste but i've done that i've been doing that basically since i did the youtube video stuff nice and no not nice like it's not it's not working at this point like it's just not like i need to zoom out and like work on the machine not like work in it it's very clearly uh activity did not equal output
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