A 66-minute cliffside conversation where a self-made real estate mogul reverse-engineers the six mental frameworks that separate people who want success from people who build it.
Posted
7 years ago
Duration
Format
Interview
sincere
Views
469.7K
12.8K likes
57 · 43
Big Idea
The argument in one line.
The gap between where you are and where you want to be is not a skills gap or a money gap — it is the story you repeat to yourself about why you cannot get there, and changing that story costs nothing.
Who This Is For
Read if. Skip if.
READ IF YOU ARE…
An entrepreneur who has hit a plateau and suspects the ceiling is psychological rather than market-based.
Someone who grew up in a chaotic or financially unstable household and still carries those origin-story beliefs into adult decisions.
A builder who learned hustle but not leverage — running the treadmill faster without moving forward.
Anyone who wants a repeatable framework for protecting confidence and starting each day on offense rather than defense.
SKIP IF…
You want tactical instruction — there are no templates, funnels, or step-by-step systems in this conversation.
You have already absorbed this material heavily from Tony Robbins or similar direct-response personal development sources.
TL;DR
The full version, fast.
Dean Graziosi argues that hard work alone does not produce wealth — hard work paired with the right mental frameworks does. He walks through his origin story from a dyslexic Upstate New York kid to a nine-figure entrepreneur, identifying the moments where a mindset shift (not a tactic shift) unlocked each next level. The core mechanism is the success tax: treating every setback as a required checkbox toward the result you want. The conversation closes on story-change as the highest-leverage intervention — the specific phrase you tell yourself after the word but is the exact anchor slowing your progress, and rewriting it requires no external change at all.
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Produced compilation of the sharpest lines from the interview.
01:10 – 02:30
02 · Introduction
Ed introduces Dean: infomercial king, real estate guru, five books, 100M+ in sales.
02:30 – 10:57
03 · Origin story
Dyslexia, trailer park, collision shop, father's breakdown, Mary Lapreschi's no-money-down building deal.
10:57 – 16:57
04 · The infomercial pivot
Cotton-mouth on camera, tequila shot, editing by copying Tony Robbins, finding Don Lapre's media buyer, burning profits chasing the business.
16:57 – 22:15
05 · Likability and congruency
Ed probes why people root for Dean; Dean traces it to radical transparency and being the same person in every context.
22:15 – 28:05
06 · Go deep, not wide — success tax
Why dabbling kills momentum; the guitar player analogy for paying the success tax before the door opens.
28:05 – 35:45
07 · Bigger problems, same stress — ROI on time
$5K deal stress equals $18M deal stress. Lawn-mowing story. Stop working on weaknesses.
35:45 – 41:17
08 · Morning offense routine
No phone first window. One small gratitude. One win from yesterday. One win for today. Five minutes total.
41:17 – 49:57
09 · Protecting confidence
Drop news. Audit your environment. The year Dean's confidence cracked when he pivoted from real estate to success habits.
49:57 – 54:29
10 · The story you tell yourself
The but-clause as your operating story. Story change requires zero external conditions to change first.
54:29 – 1:01:09
11 · Driving reasons — children
Emotional fuel that outlasts significance. Leveraging love as a business force. The deathbed question.
1:01:09 – 1:06:11
12 · Closing and CTAs
Book plug (deansfreebook.com), Instagram handle, Max Out two-minute drill, subscribe ask.
Atomic Insights
Lines worth screenshotting.
Hard work combined with the wrong mental framework keeps you running a treadmill on level eight while standing still.
The stress of a $5,000 deal and an $18,000,000 deal feel identical — so filtering for deal size has no emotional downside.
Treating failure as a required payment (the success tax) converts adversity from punishment into expected cost of the result.
How you do one thing is how you do everything — excellence at a job you hate is practice for excellence at the work you love.
Stop working on the things you suck at: doubling down on your top three strengths compounds faster than patching weaknesses.
Your thoughts lie to you. Questioning them is the intervention — not managing them, not suppressing them.
The sentence you complete after I want X, but is your story. The but-clause is the anchor. Rewrite it and nothing external needs to change first.
Most people do not have a clarity problem — they have a fragmentation problem. Fuzzy targets do not get hit.
Confidence at 95% closes deals differently than confidence at 100% — a 5% confidence drop costs more than most people calculate.
The most costly advice in the world is bad advice from people who have not done what you are trying to do.
Checking your phone in the first thirty minutes after waking puts you on defense for the rest of the day before you have made a single choice.
When significance fades, you find out whether you were in it for contribution or for identity — and the answer changes what you build next.
People project their own limitations onto you out of love; accept the love, reject the ceiling.
The first real estate deal Dean closed came directly from being excellent at a job he hated — the investor in the collision shop funded it.
Success becomes contagious when you sell a dream large enough that every person associated with you can fit their own dream inside yours.
Takeaway
Six mental locks that separate builders from wishers.
WHAT TO LEARN
The distance between where you are and where you want to be is almost always a story gap, not a skills gap — and every other framework in this conversation is a different angle on the same root problem.
01Origin story
Treat every setback as a required payment (the success tax) rather than evidence that you are on the wrong path — the checkbox model converts adversity from a confidence hit into a progress signal.
Excellence at a job you hate is practice for excellence at the work you love, and the people watching you at that job are often the ones who fund your first real move.
02The infomercial pivot
Hard work is necessary but insufficient: hard work aimed at the right skills produces momentum; hard work alone just raises your treadmill speed without moving you forward.
03Go deep, not wide — success tax
Stop working on your weaknesses: every hour spent trying to get less bad at something you will never love is an hour you did not compound in the three things you are genuinely good at.
04Bigger problems, same stress
The stress of a small problem and a large problem feel identical, so there is no emotional argument for keeping your ambitions small — the discomfort is the same at any deal size.
05Morning offense routine
Your morning is a leverage point — the first thirty minutes determine whether you spend the day on offense (choosing) or defense (reacting), and checking your phone immediately hands that choice to whoever messaged you last night.
06Protecting confidence
Confidence does not crash; it leaks. Build an explicit audit of every recurring input that drops it even five percent — news, certain people, certain tasks — and remove them systematically.
07The story you tell yourself
The sentence you complete after the word but in your own internal monologue is your operating story. Rewriting that completion requires no external change; it is the one variable entirely under your control.
08Driving reasons
Emotional fuel outlasts rational motivation: the reasons that involve other people, and specifically the people you love most, generate more durable forward motion than any financial goal.
Clarity and commitment are not the same thing: most people know what they want but fragment their energy across a dozen half-pursuits. A crystal-clear single target compounds; fuzzy targets do not get hit.
Glossary
Terms worth knowing.
Success Tax
The collection of failures, setbacks, and humiliations you must pay before a goal unlocks. Reframing these as expected fees converts them from confidence damage into progress checkboxes.
ROI on Time
A mental accounting habit where you compare the value of what you are doing against the highest-value alternative use of that same hour, then outsource or drop anything below your top rate.
Confidence Audit
A systematic review of every recurring input — people, media, tasks, environments — that reliably drops your confidence even slightly, with the intent to remove them from your routine.
Morning Offense
A five-minute opening sequence: no phone, one small genuine gratitude, one win from yesterday, one win wanted today. Designed to start the day on offense rather than reaction.
The But Clause
The phrase that follows I want X, but in your internal monologue. Dean argues this completion is the operating story that determines your results, and rewriting it is the highest-leverage self-improvement move available.
Resources
Things they pointed at.
09:17productTony Robbins course
14:20channelDon Lapre — Little Ads infomercial operation
35:45 – 49:57denseDaily habits and confidence protection
49:57 – 1:01:09denseStory change and driving reasons
16:57 – 22:15steadyCongruency and likability
The Script
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17px
metaphoranalogy
I said, what if you just visualized that there's an auditor, a success auditor? Put in the success tax and know you're gonna fail, know it's gonna go sideways, but it's worth it. No matter what you're doing, even if you hate it, realize it's temporary and be amazing at it.
Don't think I'm just gonna slug through this job and then my magic will come. You'll be screwed. You'll stay there because how you do one thing is how you do everything.
I think at the end of our lives, when you're on your deathbed, I think the question we're gonna ask ourselves is, did we do everything we could to give our kids the the tools to live a fulfilled life? You'll be able to go off to the next place. If you could say yes, you did your best, but what if you can't say that?
The most costly advice in the world is bad advice. It's your broke friend telling you how to get make money. It's your single friend telling you how to fix your relationship.
Stop listening to all the crap. Stare at your destination like an obsession. Oh, my gosh.
This is
Welcome back to Max Out, everybody. I'm Ed Mylett. And this gentleman to my left, I've been working on getting on my program for some time.
So I know all of you certainly recognize his face, and more and more of you in the social media community are beginning to recognize his message. And so this is Dean Graziosi.
Dean is a real estate guru, was the king of the infomercial for a very long time and still is. Best selling author, and I call him kind of a peak performance expert.
He shows people how to live a better life, create better businesses, create more abundance,
and that's why I wanted you here today. So thank you for being here, brother. Here, man.
I love what you're doing too, seriously. Thank you. You're making an impact.
I'm trying, brother. So he's written five books.
You're talking about over a million books sold total. Several $100,000,000 in sales through the infomercial business.
He's built up a big real estate empire. And so there's so much wisdom in there that I know both you and I wanna help as many people as we can today. So I've done a lot of research on you.
We have several mutual friends, and as you know, they wanted us to get together. Yep. And now after meeting you, know why.
Yeah. Truth is that four or five five people said, you meet Ed yet? Yeah.
I'm like, okay. It's the fourth time I gotta reach out to Ed. Finally time we do this.
Right? We do this. Same here.
Yeah. And just rave reviews. And so and then as the more I read your stuff and listened to your social media and went back and researched, I was just more and more impressed because, frankly, I agree with so much of what you talk about.
So there's so much you could teach us, but I wanna wait just a little because I want people to understand who you are because everyone always sees the after.
Yeah. There's this, you know, good looking, wealthy, successful guy, but before is really interesting. And so you grew up in Upstate New York.
Right? I did. Okay.
Yep. Grew up in a wealthy family? Yeah.
We are loaded.
So tell me tell me a little bit, you know, the Reader's Digest, but a little bit about your upbringing. Yeah. So the the one thing I wanna say is you don't have to have a really horrible childhood Right.
To be successful. Like, sometimes I share it, and I'm like, wow. I don't want people to think, like, oh, the the rags to riches story.
Mhmm. But I think it's an inspiration because if you didn't start that low, at least you're starting on second base. Yeah.
Right? So so you don't have to have the tragic story to get there, but I guess the simplest way is I just knew at a young age.
And and and I wanna get back to later that having this broad this broad audience and having the opportunity to affect 15 year old kids all the way to 80 year olds now Yeah.
With social media in a way that we never had. Because I remember, and this is the part I'll start with, I can remember being 15 years old and feeling different than everybody in my family. Mhmm.
Like, no one made money. My dad I I I at a really early age, I equated that hard work had nothing to do with success.
Mhmm. My dad worked his ass off, and he was broker than shit. What did dad do?
Cars. Yeah. Collision shop.
Collision. Yeah. And he worked hard.
Got up early, paint under his nails, sick some days from painting and fumes. So I realized at a really young age that working hard had nothing to do with being successful. And then I recognized people in my town that were wealthy.
That's why I went into real estate. There was couple guys. One's Joey Noto and Dominic Afuso.
It was two Italian guys in my town. I I grew up in a town in Upstate New York. Everybody was Italian.
I grew up I thought everybody was the world was. Right? Yeah.
So but I watched those guys, and they just were a little different than everybody else. They were seemed happier.
They had more freedom. They were jovial, and I watched my dad work so hard. So I think something's triggered at a really young age, but I remember feeling alone in my thoughts.
You know? I had an uncle that was I had an uncle that was somewhat successful, lived in Connecticut, and he's like, you know, if you don't go to college, if you're not getting good grades, Dean, then I think you should start thinking that you'll probably be a mechanic like your dad, and you should get good at that craft.
Woah. It's like and I remember thinking, like, deflated. So I think being on social media, we're get I'm getting so many because I like you said, I just started putting attention on social media the last eight months.
Getting so many kids with that same feeling, but now they have an outlet. Yeah. But just real quick, my story.
I wanted to tell the feeling. So I could say I was broke. I lived in a trailer park.
All that stuff was true. I had dyslexia. I I didn't go past high school.
I barely got out of high school, and I knew I wasn't going to college. But I realized at a young age that and somewhat being naive, right, before the world told you no so many times that I just I I wanted to break out of watching my parents struggle, watching all my family struggle.
Again, it doesn't matter where you are if the the the your surroundings feel complacent, if they feel okay. Shit.
If they feel good and you want amazing, you know you gotta break through. And I was just lucky enough to just stay persistent.
I wasn't afraid to fail. I I I didn't doubt myself even though I didn't have the education, the money.
But you started to go down the road, didn't you? You ended up in the collision shop. I did.
Right? Like, it ended up being you and your dad's shop. Yeah.
And there was I mean because a lot of the young people listen to this or middle aged people. They've also they're coming out of a setback or a letdown. And sometimes even those setbacks and letdowns are from people that love them or that they love.
Absolutely. So go to there if you don't mind. Just I know.
I'd love to. You're in the collision shop. You end up becoming an entrepreneur.
Yeah. Right? Like, let me ask you.
Actually, I wanna go back because I heard you say this before. You say hard work has nothing to do. Do you think that a guy like you because I I understand what you mean when you say it, which is that these entrepreneurs are smarter.
They find ways to get ROI, which I'll talk about in a minute. But I I also know about your work ethic. Oh, no.
I I so yeah. The point I left out is hard work had nothing to do with success. Hard work combined with the right skills Gotcha.
Get you momentum. And like the way I think about it, I I didn't finish it. Thank you for looping back around is what I see most people do is when you're on like you're on a treadmill on number five Yeah.
And you're like, screw this. I want more out of life. So you just put the treadmill to eight.
So you're running twice as fast. You're you're you're exhausted. You're sweating, but you still haven't moved an inch.
Mhmm. And and that's where what I love what you do, and I love being the business I am. I never knew I'd be in this business is because we get to show capability so you can grab onto what other people have experienced and just rob their strategies so you can be working smarter.
So let me let me back up. So I decided not to go to college, work with my dad in his collision shop.
And within a couple years, not even a year, he made me a 25% partner in his collision shop because I was bringing in business and I was hustling. And him and I banged heads because he was brute force. Like, he could make shit happen through brute force, and I saw a better way to market and create systems.
And I don't know why. I'd love to say I'm brilliant. I don't have a high IQ.
I just saw it wasn't working for him. So it's like you hit your hand with a hammer and it hurts. Stop hitting your hand with a hammer.
Like like Stop. And it'll stop hurting. But it's not amazing how many people don't.
They just keep doing it. Or go faster. Hit it quicker.
Maybe it won't hurt as much. Right? Great Great point.
So I just saw that. So then so I'll tell you the first the first time in my life, felt like, shit. Maybe my uncle was right.
Yeah. Maybe society is right. It was a young age.
So, like, two years out of out of out of high school, I'm a partner in my daddy. He named it Paul and Dean Auto Body. So he put my name on the sign.
I'm like, at least I got something. All buddies went off to college. At least I got this.
So my dad goes through his third divorce and it really hit him hard. He he my dad was the youngest at 12, was physically and emotionally abused. So he he's fought a lot of stuff.
Mhmm. So he goes through his third divorce and he freaks out and he goes so low that he checks him in checks checks himself in some place to try to get his head straight and they wouldn't let him out.
Oh my gosh. So he I go see him and he said, Dean and I I haven't shared this much, but he said, Dean, get a job someplace.
There was only one factory in our in our little town. He said, go get a job there. You're screwed.
I screwed you. He said, I'm not paying my mortgage on my house. I'm not paying the collision shop.
They can all go screw themselves. Screw the like, he was in that Wow. You know, he was in a different space, a little bipolar, so he was in that paranoid space.
Plus, this is your father and your business partner. Wow. Father and business partner.
So he says, go get a job. You don't have a college education. I don't have money.
All I got is debt, so good luck. And he wasn't trying to be mean to me. He just didn't know else how to he didn't know he was gonna He had the tools?
He wanted to get out so he could kill himself, if you wanna know the truth. Oh, my god. So they wouldn't let him out.
So Really, really, that that's why yeah.
So what I did was but that was that was my gift, and and that's the part I wanna talk about. When you're in it I don't listen, I love when people say, hey, man, when you're going through hell, that's your gift. You're gonna learn from it.
But when you're going through it Yeah. You can't like, oh, great. This is wonderful.
I need to throw out of my house. I'm not in business anymore. My dad wants to kill himself, and I don't know where I'm gonna sleep tomorrow night.
I'm gonna be like, oh, wow. This is building character. Like, I didn't want that.
But when I look back, that was that was our buddy Tony Robbins always says, life happens for us. That was life happening for us. Mhmm.
Right? That was me paying success tax at a really young age, you know? So I rented his house.
First, I I rented his house to someone so he didn't lose his And then I moved all of his all the collision stuff Yeah. Out of his collision shop and I put it in this little barn. Mhmm.
And I literally no shit. I still have a picture of the barn. I worked in that barn.
I was fixing one car at a time just to pay the bills. Mhmm. And it taught me how to be creative.
I went back the to woman. I'll make the story short. I just wanna show you how Yeah.
It doesn't matter where you are. There's another level when the tenacity and you have the ability to to, you know, overcome the obstacles in front of you. I went back to the woman who my dad was renting the collision shop for.
Mhmm. Had she was Italian lady. I had dinner with her about three Sundays in a row.
The fourth Sunday, I asked her if she'd sell me the collision shop my dad lost, and she sold it to me with no money down and a hug. Swear to God on my life. Oh my Like, there's little angels in your life.
Like I say it now, could get emotional. Mary Lapreschi, she's not alive anymore. God bless She sold me the building with no money down, and she didn't like my dad.
She didn't. They fought all the time. And she said, I've always seen something in you.
And she goes, I love you. I know this is weird. And I'm like, oh my it was like an adopted I got goosebumps.
You do. And and she gave me the building with no money down. I moved in.
I started Dean Collision Shop. Oh. And and within two years, we were thriving.
I got Enterprise Rent A Car account. I bought two tow trucks. And then two years later, I asked my dad to come back and be my 25 partner.
My gosh. And that was the start of that was the start of that. And then I got into real estate.
I mean, I was doing real estate before then, but I started really building momentum in my mid twenties. By by 28, I was what you would consider a millionaire. Retired my parents in my twenties.
You ended up retiring that that dad of yours that was going through all that. You retire him I still cut him a check every day, every week. I still cut him a check every day.
To this day, buy him a new car every two years. Beautiful. Cut him a check every week.
Yeah. And yeah. So that was that was and and I've had multiple of those stories along the way.
Like, I I got into real estate and then the real estate market changed and I shifted and had to figure things. I got in the infomercial business. I had no freaking clue what I was doing.
I was I was literally in my collision shop. I had 30 apartments. I was I was, uh, I bought a big plot of land.
I was I was building homes. I've got 10 homes being built. This is my late twenties.
10 homes in development, 30 apartments, collision shop, auto sales, and I'm writing a course on how to do an infomercial because I watched Tony on camera, and the freaking guy inspired me. Bought his course. My gosh.
And literally, I this is the one thing I don't even know if I've shared this, but I gave Tony money. He sent me a course. I didn't know him, of course.
And it changed my life. Yes. And I said, wow.
I cut a check to go faster. I wanna be in this business. Mhmm.
Mhmm. And I knew my story was good, so I started creating a course, and I filmed my first infomercial in the front yard of my house when I was twenty nineteen ninety eight. Are you kidding me?
Yeah. I had no idea what I was doing. I was fucking clueless.
In fact, the camera guy is like, you got a great crew here. They showed up, and I I used every dollar I had in credit cards. They came with a big I don't know if you guys remember.
They had the big dollies. It used to come on tracks. Yeah.
It looked like a train. It came out of a back of a truck. It was like five guys wheeling it down.
Yeah. I set up this whole thing. They turned on a camera like this.
I'm like, I could talk about this. Yeah. And the camera went on.
I went freaking straight cotton mouth. Like, I couldn't I couldn't even take the tongue my tongue off the roof of my mouth. I couldn't talk.
And I I went in the I went in my house. I did a shot of tequila. No shit.
I went in for a lot of shows. We didn't do that today, I usually do. Yeah.
I did a shot of tequila. Yeah. And then I did a second shot of tequila.
I went out and felt buzz with cottonmouth. I could not do it. But I literally couldn't get through it.
So they came back the next day, and I shot my first show, and I started running my infomercial business out of my collision shop.
No shit. Golly, man. Yeah.
That's insane. Yeah. So you so I wanna I'm gonna pick apart a couple things No.
Here.
Yeah. Please. This is so awesome.
So I wanna go part through a couple of things. Like, one thing that you that he hasn't told you about, the infomercial thing, because I was reading on you, because he's a real eye shucks it dude.
You can see it. Like, I but, like, this is a thoroughbred freaking freaky stud right here. Right?
And that's one of things I'm gonna ask you in a minute. But but you you heard all the the things he was doing. But, like, I started this podcast because somebody told me that I should.
Right. I literally googled Tim Ferriss had a kit online you could buy. Right?
I'm like, that's how I did. And I it's on YouTube. I buy the kit on Amazon.
I got the microphones, and I just talked into it for my first podcast, like, nineteen months ago. I found it. This is where we're similar.
And then I'm done, and I go, so how do I get it out of that machine onto the computer?
And then how does it get from the computer, like, into the world? World. I had no idea.
I I yeah. I get it. So so, like, everyone thinks you have to have every single step figured out.
Yeah. That's a great lesson. And you on your infomercial, there's kinda something similar.
Didn't you shoot it and had no idea what to do with it after you shot it? It's so great. I'm glad you did your research because you reminded me stuff I haven't talked about in years.
Yeah. So I I finally get through. I filmed this infomercial.
It's done. And literally, I'm just gonna everybody says you have to figure it out. I love what you just said.
I literally hired an editor that had another job that could do it at night. It's the only one I could afford.
So I'm at his apartment, and we're editing this at night. And I have Tony Robbins infomercial here, and I'd play three minutes and go, oh, let's edit this part to look like that.
And that's how I that's how I edited my first show. So now I get totally done, and I'm like, so now what do do with it?
Just I swear to god. I'm like, how do I how do I get it out of the machine? And how do people see it?
I was literally going through the yellow pages trying to find like, calling stations and, like, no. There's media buyers who buy on a big scale.
And all of a sudden, I just started digging, and and I found I don't know if you remember Don Lapre. Of course.
So Don Lapre Little tiny ads. Little tiny ads. Don Lapre had gone out of business.
Okay. That's why I live in Phoenix. He went out of business and he laid off 300 people.
Okay. So I just through calling calling, I found his media buyer. It was Sandy Daly.
Come on, man. I jumped on a plane. I flew down.
She just lost her job. She was working for Don. She had nothing to do.
I said, hey. I got an infomercial that I think is gonna convert. I have no idea what to do, and that was my gateway.
She got me the media. She hooked me up with customer, like because all these people that's why I moved to Phoenix. Oh my I hired 20 ex Don people that were in that space.
You are kidding. Now, you know, he handled things his way and mine, but they still knew that space. And then for two years straight, I commuted in New York.
I'd fix I had my car business, collision business, flipping houses and apartments. I'd take those profits, jump on a plane every other week, and fly back to Phoenix and blow all those profits trying to get my information man.
There was a time where I was burning
now it doesn't seem like a lot, but I was burning $10 a week. It's a total. Yeah.
And I was flipping houses like a madman Wow. To cover the losses. And everybody's like, you know, this is when, you know Yep.
Everybody my sister drove up from Virginia to sit me down and say The intervention. Too far. Right.
Yeah. Right. It was like, stop the crack.
Yeah. It's time to stop drugs. All you in entrepreneurs will probably have that intervention with somebody.
Absolutely. See it before it gets there. Yeah.
Right? And she told me she's like she basically told me with love Yeah. That you reached your plateau.
It's amazing you got to make the money you made Yeah. But now you stepped into something that's too big for It's way too big. Isn't it interesting that people project their own limitations onto you once they see you?
So and by the way, lot of the times it comes from love. They love you. It came from love.
They don't wanna see them. You want to protect them. They want to want to protect you.
I think everyone should take a lesson here in that. You know, one of the top podcasts in the world arguably right now started with a guy not that long ago, me, who did not know how to get it out of the machine onto the computer out of the computer into the world. That's a great lesson.
You're talking about a man who's hundreds of millions of dollars in sales through an infomercial. He had no idea how to shoot at it, cotton mouthed it, tequila it once he got it, didn't know how to get it anywhere.
It's unbelievable. Right? Let me ask you a couple of things about you though.
Like, I I have watched you. I bet you've not been asked this before.
K. And I think this goes all the way back to the lady who sold you the collision shop with nothing down. I think people have different ways of being persuasive.
Yep. And I have found myself over the years of watching you on television and then meeting you.
You have what I would consider to be a high likability factor. And I find myself even when I would watch you and I didn't know you. And I I don't know if you're aware of this or not or if you've been told this before, or you're conscious of it.
Because I think some great sales people have this. I kinda root for you. I find myself like rooting for you even though you're already so successful.
Are you conscious like of do you think it's just your spirit when you communicate with people? Or do are you are you conscious of projecting a certain version of you when you talk to people? No.
I I don't think I'm conscious of it. K. I'm not.
But what I have learned through the years, we all got in business for different reasons. Yeah. I I wanted to be successful because I hated not being in control of my life as a kid.
Mhmm. My my parents were married nine times between the two of them. I moved 20 times.
Nine times. Nine times. So never stability.
You know? Getting a new house, you gotta leave. Go here, leave.
Move in with grandma. I think I I hated the insecurity of my childhood, but it was my driving force.
So thank you, God, the universe, whatever you believe in, thank you for that. Yep. Because it pushed me to go, hey, I don't want I don't know about you.
I I you and I hit it off in the first three minutes we were talking, but I'm not a control freak, but I don't want anybody ever tell me how to live. Me too. How to dress, what to wear.
If I wanna wear orange sneakers today, wanna wear orange sneakers. I live where I want. I raise my kids the way I want.
I don't get into peer pressure. I don't hang out with the Joneses or try to impress the Joneses. I just wanna live my life.
Mhmm. But I know that happened at a really young age. Mhmm.
So backing up with your question is that drove me. Mhmm.
So sometimes you need pain to drive you. Yes. And then you start being successful, then you can go to aspirational.
Now I wanna be a better dad, be a better man, be a better human. But if you need pain to drive you, let it drive you. Great point.
Totally agree. So that's the first part. Let the pain and and the thing is don't ignore the pain.
Let it seep into where it really disturbs you. Action comes from being disturbed. You don't move until you're uncomfortable.
You don't put the air conditioning on till you're hot. Yeah. You don't go to the next level until you feel the pain.
So feel it. So anyway, I felt that. And when I first started, all I wanted to do was get out of that.
I wanted to sell a lot of cars, fix a lot of houses, and when I got in the infomercial business, I wanted to help people, but I really wanted to create a business Yep. That made me money. Yes.
I mean, I'd love to say I'm Mother Teresa. I'm not. Yep.
I wanted to be wealthy so I could retire my parents and nobody tell me what the fuck to do, for lack of a better way. Can I stay in with you? Yeah.
I think one of the things that that people have been missing over about is they see these very successful entrepreneurs. They think we had these grand visions of changing the world in the very beginning. Hell no.
Most of us wanted to move away from something Move away from and we wanted to make money. Yeah. There's nothing wrong with that.
And then but then I got addicted to the business just like I know you are. Yes. I see it in your heart.
I mean, I've been I've been obsessing on your videos lately. Thank you. I've been watching them for a while, but obsessing on them lately is I know the difference when someone's heart driven.
Not I'm not talking about spiritual and your chakras are aligned. You can I'm not and I'm not making fun of that. Right.
I'm just talking about I'm addicted to helping people change their lives. Me too. Yeah.
And I love to get paid really well for it, but I'm addicted to it. Yeah. Right?
I know you are. So And maybe that's just the goodness that I see that comes So let me back up. Yeah.
But what I do know is I'm not consciously aware of it, but what I know through the years is I've allowed myself to be more transparent and say it like it is than anyone than most people I see.
And when I even go back and watch old videos, I go, wow, that's to me, I'll be like, that was a tiny bit pretentious, man. Just let that shit go. Yeah.
Me too. And then I'd find stuff that I used to be embarrassed of. Like, I went through a divorce.
Mhmm. I mean, it was like embarrassing for me at one point that like I'm the success guy.
Mhmm. But it was never right in the beginning and now we're dear friends and and we're our kids are amazing and they're thriving. But instead of me hiding from that, man, the more I leaned into why it happened Mhmm.
It can help other people and the more it healed me. Mhmm. So I think what you're probably feeling, which I appreciate you saying that and no one's ever said that ever, but is I'm trying to be the most authentic version of myself that exists.
Yeah. Like, don't ever want somebody and you know this too. How many times?
Because you've had amazing guests, dude. I the the lineup you've is incredible. But every once in a while, it's not so good to meet your heroes.
And I mean, like, meet them. Exactly. It's not that they're your hero and you idolize them.
But you're like, man, that guy's a badass. So that woman, she's incredible. And then you're in the kitchen with him for ten minutes, like, wow.
Yeah. Yeah. Like, I don't ever want that.
I want someone to say Me too. I saw Dean on video, and then I met him. And then I saw him in a tight situation, and I saw him with his kids all the same guy.
Yeah. And I think that's where life like that's I I just wanna be the same guy in all areas, and I think even though I'm working on myself Yeah. It comes through on video and my sales go up.
I think you're right. I think you're like having met you, it's your congruency.
You are who you appear to be and more. And I I I think that just moves people. I just think people feel energy.
You can't transfer to somebody that which you aren't experiencing. Your energy level is bananas, obviously. Let me ask you a couple entrepreneur questions.
We'll jump jump back into the story a little bit. By the way, one of the things that I do wanna have everybody know is that he's written five books, but the millionaire success habits is a great book. Yeah.
And, like, when I was reading it, my highlighter was on fire. Right?
And we're gonna talk about some of those habits in the book, but I don't I don't like just plugging things at the end. Millionaire success habits is a book he's written. You will get tremendous value out of it.
Get it. And we'll talk about that towards the end too. But I wanna make sure you all know that because we won't be able to cover 95% of what's in that book, and I want you to have it because he wrote that to help you based, you know, just to be consistent with what he just told you.
I wanna ask you an entrepreneur question though. Yeah. Earlier, you described
collision shop, real estate, infomercial. You had these different things going on. Would you recommend that to an entrepreneur who's listening to this now, or do you believe they should be immersed in one area?
Would you or or do you think it doesn't matter? No. I think I think I think we live in a shallow world.
I think I think shallow meaning we're especially a new generation who grew up going through a stream. Right? So Yeah.
What used to be hours went to minutes and now it's seconds. Right? If something doesn't catch you in a second and I feel like a lot of people want that next level, which is great.
Everybody should, but we dabble in each one, and we don't see enough spark, excitement, or light, we back out and go to the next one. It's like it's like they're looking for the magic money machine, and they're in one car, and they're like, this car might work. Oh, that car looks good.
Then we jump out in the next one, and we jump out in the next one. So I would say, even though, you know, I'm 50 this year, so I've had, like, different lives. I went deep on all of them.
My collision shop was the best in town. That's why I landed Enterprise and Hertz rental car.
And and so I'm gonna give do you mind if I give three lessons? Give it, please. Maybe two or three.
Just said three, but it's two or three I'm thinking in my head. One is no matter what you're doing, even if you hate it, realize it's temporary and be amazing at it.
I I I sat down with Good. John Paul DiGiorio, who started Tequila Petrone and and Sassoon.
And he said he hated come to me a couple times this week going after this. He said he hated he hated when he had a janitorial job when he was a kid.
But he said, man, it was my job. I cleaned every I used to the the boss came to him and said, man, I lifted up the desk. You cleaned under the desk.
He's like, the guy thought I loved the job. I hated it. I just did it the best.
And I realized one of my biggest my first big real my first real estate deal did over a million bucks. True story. I was fixing a guy's car, and I'm in the collision shop.
I wanna be completely transparent. I hated the collision shop. I ended up being the only painter because I got good at it.
So every night when everybody left, I paint for three hours. The ventilation wasn't good. I'd have headaches.
I hated every inch of it, but you'd never know. If you came in, you'd be like, that guy loves being in the collision shop. I knew it was temporary.
Because don't think I'm just gonna schlub through this job, and then my my magic will come. You'll be screwed. You'll stay there because how you do one thing is how you do everything.
So I so I'm literally in the collision shop. I have this guy. He comes down.
He's like, my god. My car looks great. Thank you so much.
We get talking. Come kind of fringe really quick. And he says, are up to?
I'm like, well, I'm doing this, but I'm working on my day job. My night job is real estate. I'm gonna be I'm gonna take real estate to a whole another level.
He's like, what do you got going on? At that time, I was working on a deal for a $180,000 to buy an old vineyard.
Okay. And I didn't have the money. I scraped up every credit card I had.
Came up with like $45. The seller agreed to sell it to me for half down and half in two years. I needed $45.
I tell this guy the story. I said, but I'm gonna get it. He goes, yeah, you're gonna get it because I'm going home to get it for you.
Oh, my gosh. Now, what if I was like, I hate closing. Yeah.
Here's your keys. Yeah. I made a million dollars on that deal.
The first one ever documented. I I sold that property. I killed it on that property.
Killed it. All the neighbors all the neighbors didn't want me to build on the property, and I was fighting them, and then I realized, wow, what if I sell it to them?
So I sold them all in peace around, and I crushed it. Killed So that's the first thing.
Yeah. So no matter what you're doing, find a way to be enthusiastic knowing that maybe the universe, God, whatever you believe is putting you through your trial run to to deserve that. And then the next thing, I love this phrase I've been saying for about six months, success tax.
Yeah. I heard you say it earlier. Know what I love about that?
Somebody told to me, I didn't make it up, but I found my own version of it. It's like we all want to make more money. We all want to feel significance, abundance, freedom, but most people aren't willing to pay it.
So a great analogy I've been using is if you're in a band and you play the guitar and you write songs, it would be amazing to be at Madison Square Garden. 50,000 people singing your song, you're out in the front of the stage. I mean, could anything be more euphoric.
Right? But everybody would want that.
But who's willing to play the guitar when no one's watching till your hands hurt? Who's willing to pack up an old shitty van that barely runs and drive to dive bar after dive bar playing where people are booing you? Most people aren't willing to put in the success tax to pay, and I said I said, what if you just visual ized, whether you believe in God, whatever you believe in, that there's an auditor, a success auditor?
And I go, okay, Ed. Ed started with shit, lives in a ghetto. Okay.
But he's still positive every day. Wow. He's still respectful.
Wow. He tried that first business, and his first partner screwed him over, took all the money and left. Wow.
He still got up the next day. Still inspiring other people. Still not a jerk.
Check. Check. What if you gotta check off 10 boxes before you get to the other side?
Because once you get to the other side, it opens up like Ed's amazing backyard. There's not many people playing at that level. Like, everybody thinks it's so competitive up here.
It's not. Because you guys are all fighting over crumbs, and I don't mean that disrespectfully. But all I'm saying is when you said, like, put in the success tax and know you're gonna fail, know it's gonna go sideways, but it's worth it.
And and those two things combined, love what you do and put in the success tax, and then all of a sudden, because I've I've been framing it more than ever, the success that when shit goes sideways, I'm like, man, just checked another box. Bro.
I just checked another box, and all of a sudden, I found a way to be enthusiastic. Bro, that is a couple of my favorite things I've ever heard, honestly.
That's one of my couple things that Thank you. For me and for me even, because I'm at that place too, you know, like What's next? You know, and I I'm checking some boxes right now.
Yeah. I'm checking some boxes. Man, that's so so good.
You talk a little bit about there's this great story you have. This is so good for people, by way, and thank you for being so generous. Oh, my pleasure.
My pleasure. Part of that success tax, though, is you said something earlier about playing at this high level. And I've heard you say this, and I just I I I didn't learn this till too late not too late.
I learned it later in life. And that is that my max out strategy, but you
might as well play big because you say something so powerful about this. Elaborate on this. The stress level's kind of the same It is.
When you're playing for something small or if you're going for something big. People are like, man, I don't wanna go for the big old thing because the stress. It's actually the same Would you elaborate on that?
Love what you say. No. It's like, if you want more success, get bigger problems.
It's As so simple as that sounds, and like, oh, Dean, that was so enlightening. No, it is. Because here here's this is simple, the lowest form.
Like, I just started realizing I want bigger problems because I remember the stress of my first real estate deal Mhmm. Where I made probably $5. Yeah.
Right? Worked my ass off, was stressing, worried that the town didn't wanna give me a permit, then the seller was falling through, and I was running out of money.
It was it was so stressful. And then I remember, you know, a couple months ago, I signed a $18,000,000 deal, and there was the same exact amount of stress.
It doesn't matter. And and, again, I I I I say that. I I said I I judge myself.
I don't ever wanna come across pretentious or saying, oh, look at me on my $18,000,000 deal. I don't mean that. I just want you to know that the stress you feel to pay your bills or get ahead or it's the same stress whether you're making $10,110,000,000, or 100,000,000 a year.
It feels the same. So if it feels the same, then why not avoid lower end problems so you could spend time solving bigger ones? Mean, I'm in a phase of my life.
I'm not shitting you. If I order medium rare steak at a restaurant and they bring me well done chicken, I just eat it.
So do I. Who gives a shit? So do I.
I'm the same way. It's so somebody cuts me off in track traffic and then flips me off, I'm like, wow. They need bigger problems.
Yes. Traffic is bugging you that much. You'll never be successful, so know that.
If you're annoyed because a friend doesn't ask you to go to the mall or someone cut you off in traffic or you think a friend offended you or you think a coworker's being a little rude, then you're screwed because you're worried about the wrong things. Spend that energy on solving big problems, and you accomplish big things.
This is massively valuable for people to hear because it's like there's someone listening right now running a gym. You know, the same stress level will be when you have 20 of them. If you can scale it, you should.
If you're buying two unit buildings, you should be doing that. But if you can buy twenties, the stress level's gonna be the same. This is a this is an absolute fact.
I've learned it in business.
My stress level when I had 10 agents in my agency compared to having 30 or 40,000 is the same. It's just stress. It's better to be going bigger, and you have to sell a big enough dream in your business that the dreams of everybody associated with you can fit inside the one you're selling.
You entrepreneurs, you fathers, you mothers, sell a big dream so that everyone's dreams associated, vendors, clients, recruits, agents, employees Absolutely. Can fit inside that sucker.
And when you're talking about these big problems, tell them the story. This is so profound. I want you to illustrate this point one more time.
Tell them the story about you're paying the guy to cut your grass and your dad sees you. Oh, wow.
That's funny. You did do your research. Cool stuff, man.
So
I was my first apartment house, it was an old rundown mansion. Lesson here, everybody. It was a it was an old rundown apartment a mansion, like, I mean, beat up old big house.
And I ended up getting the house for no money down, and I converted it into 10 apartments. So what was cool is I I fixed one up. Mhmm.
I was living in it while I fixed it. And then as soon as it was done, I'd rent it, and I'd move in one not done. Mhmm.
But I got through 10 of them. Crazy. So now I have this 10 unit apartment house.
It's doing great for me. I'm I'm 19, 20 years old.
Mhmm. You know, it's bringing me in $5 a month net net, which was a gazillion dollars because now I'm not I'm living for free. Yeah.
And this is and and plus it's building value. So I got no money down, refinanced it, pulled some cash out. I was I used that money to go into next one.
Long story short, the had a huge lawn. So every Saturday, because my dad was born during the depression, my dad grew up with, if you could do it yourself, you don't pay anybody.
Right? So every Saturday, I'd spend five hours.
I had a massive lawn. I'd mow. I have allergies, so my eyes are tearing.
I'm weed whacking. Know, shit hits your legs and it's just Yep. Then one day I realized, wow, I'm mowing my lawn a whole day.
I hire the kid down the street for $50 to mow my lawn. Mhmm. And my he's mowing lawn, my dad pulls in.
True story, not zero exaggeration. I tell it to my dad all the time. He's like, sorry, I was wrong.
Alright. My dad pulls in. He goes and this is how my dad talks to me, whether you think it's true or not.
He goes, mister Big Shot, you finally went too far. You're so freaking big now that you're gonna pay someone to mow your lawn when you can do it.
And he got so mad that he left and he hit the gas, and he it was gravel driveway, and he dented the shit out of the side of my car. Was just like, and I'm like, oh, and he left and maybe he gave me the finger when he was leaving or something like that.
That's my dad. He's got Italian hothead. Right?
And he left, and it was so profound that I knew at that moment I was onto something. You did? I really did.
I I I'd love to say it was this epiphany and the sky opened up, and I was like, wow, my dad still struggles. And what I realized, and this is what I wanna share with you, is I realized an ROI on my time.
At that time, I had 15 apartments. I had two houses being built. I had a collision shop and a used dealership.
If I went down to the used car dealership and sold one car, I probably netted about $2 a car back then. I sold lower end cars. So in that day, without mowing the lawn, if I sold one car, it cost me 50 to mow the lawn.
I made $2. Or if I drove around that day and found my next apartment house, could be tens of thousands of dollars. And it just hit me, it was so profound at that moment that I'm gonna start equating things I do with an ROI.
Yes. It's like if I and and and the great part is if you keep noodling it, it doesn't matter if something costs you $500 an hour.
If you're working in your unique ability, you can make $10 an hour, still pay someone to do it, and you just chip away like an onion, peeling back an onion Yep. To stop doing the stuff that doesn't move the needle. And and something I just always love saying is because it it really affected me when I was young.
Stop trying to get good at the things you suck at too. I just I need to say that Mhmm. Because it's the biggest lie we've ever been told.
It dings our confidence when I still can't read. If I if I wrote you two sentences in an email, half the words would light up misspelled, and some of them are so bad that I tried three different times to spell it, the computer can't even like, if it could talk to me, it'd be like, idiot.
Like, what are you trying to say? I have no freaking clue what you're saying. And then I just put like, good.
You know? Like, fuck. I completely relate, sir.
But what it does is what let me just ask you, watching or listening right now, if you're if you work on something you suck at, does it make you feel empowered? Does it make you feel like you wanna like me trying to do accounting.
Like Mhmm. Could never do it. It's not my personality.
So
what I know about the most successful people on the planet, including you, Ed, you just got really great at a few things. Correct. The things that light you up, the things that inspire you, and when that fire starts Yep.
You can't stop it, and eventually you'll pay someone to do the things you suck at. Maybe you can't afford that now, but just don't don't let anybody give you a bill of goods on on working on the things. Try to get better at what you're failing.
No. Just go get great at a few things and Yeah. Wish I could debate you on that, but I can't because I a 100% agree.
I I just know that that's true. I'm not great at so many things, by the way. Being writing.
There are five or things I've gotten really pretty good at in my life. Right? And I just work those skills over and over and over again.
And I collaborate or surround myself with people who are good at the stuff I'm not good at. Yeah. I can't shoot this stuff these guys are filming.
I don't how edit the stuff they're doing. These guys are brilliant. Right?
It's not it's not my area. I I this is such great juice for people in every area. And also, the other thing Dean recommends is make a list of the stuff you do suck at and make a list of the stuff that you are doing that you don't need to be doing.
I'm so obsessed with that. There's sometimes I'm even reading emails.
I'm like, I should not be the one even reading this email right now because this is stuff for my personal ROI. Okay. So couple other things I wanna ask you about.
Yeah. Because it's just simple what you do, but I love the way you teach it because I'm massive on It's in my book. But yours is special and unique.
Everyone needs to find a routine that works for them. Yep. And I like simple things.
Sometimes people give me these, like, 19 steps. I'm like, you don't really do that. You don't real world?
No. They don't. You don't do these things.
They sounded really good in your book. It was a hell of a speech,
and everyone who knows you knows you don't do these things. You've done Oh my god. You've done each you've done you've done each of them once of the nineteenth.
Funny. I have three of my dear friends that are massive influencers Yeah. That do that.
And every time, I'm like, you're so full of shit. No one does all that stuff. I've hung out with you.
Didn't see you do any of those. You've got unpounded coffee. So true.
I just just think it's the most hilarious thing. So your That's awesome. Your it's so true, by the way.
Your morning routine, in terms of gratitude,
I could do, and it works. Mine's about five minutes longer than yours. But I love what you do, and I love how you talk about reducing it.
So just share with them what you do. Yeah. This is awesome.
You guys, you're gonna love this. And I fail on this sometimes too. If I don't do it, I honestly screw it up.
Yeah. But but it's a consistent thing because I can do it in five to seven minutes. Yeah.
So the thing is I used to, which probably a lot of people listening and this isn't revolutionary. And the one thing I wanna say, thank you for saying, I I try to make things simple. Mhmm.
And the one thing I'd love to say is there's probably not much I'm sharing today you haven't heard before. You've read it in books, you've heard it someplace, you've watched a video or a podcast, but what I'm gonna ask you to do for the first time is actually listen and apply it.
And that's that's been my mission lately. It's like, I know there's some of the things success principles are the same since the beginning of time.
But when is it time to stop being inspired? Stop just watching Ed and start just doing what Ed does?
Like, when is that time to stop looking for the next hit of a great podcast? The next hit of watching Tony or Dean or Ed or Andy or somebody watching, feeling good, and then going back to the same routine. What if this was the time?
What if this was the interview? What if this was the moment you said, I'm not just gonna listen. I'm gonna start to do.
And I I didn't mean to get sidetracked on that, but it really it's really different. No. It is.
And and like, that's why I like what you do in the morning because like when I heard it, I went, that I can do. Yeah. So I'm do really quick.
So for
me, if I wake up and look at my phone, it's like Russian roulette. A deal I'm working on, if it's not going through, I'll get pissed. It'll I'll get in my head.
And for me, I just try to find ways to frame things in my for me, I kick ass during the day from playing offense. If I'm playing defense, putting out fires, I don't move forward. I just I manage stuff.
I didn't move the needle. So I wanna play offense every day. So I framed it in my head.
This is my way for offense. So when I wake up, I do not look at my phone.
If I do, it's Russian roulette. It could be shitty. So first thing, I don't look at my phone.
Second thing, I just find something to be grateful for. But if you've ever done a gratitude journal and you know you're three months in, you're like, I got nothing left. I said my daughter 27 times.
My son 42. Like Yeah.
You run out of stuff. So for me, I just wanna be grateful for the little things. Like, I wake up and the sheets feel good.
I'm like, wow, the sheets feel good. Or Yeah. Hundred and fifty thousand people die a day.
Yep. You didn't die. I'm grateful just sitting here with you right now.
The littlest thing. Mhmm. Only so it frames your mind in a gratitude space.
I'm not talking about a long meditation. I don't have time for that. Maybe you do and that'd be great.
Mhmm. But I just think of something in that moment to be grateful for. And then, in the next moment, I just think of one win from the day before.
Because listen, as entrepreneurs, if you're watching this, you want another level of life. You kick your own ass more than anybody could.
Mhmm. You work a sixteen hour day and you come home and you're like, I got nothing done today. You lie to yourself.
You may you beat yourself up. So it's a moment to go, no. Yesterday, closed that deal.
Yesterday, I got to meet Ed, I know he'll be a friend for life. Like, just one thing. That's it.
Seconds. Gratitude, one thing was a win yesterday, then I think of one win for that day. What's one thing I wanna accomplish?
If I do that little tiny thing, it puts my mind in offense and I'm in a different space. Man, I I wanna second two things here because this is so real and so good. Because by the way, most of you lose control of your life in the first five minutes after you wake up.
I talk about it in my book and you begin to respond all day long. The first thing is this,
the hardest thing you will do and the thing that will change your life almost with the greatest impact is to not check your phone for the first thirty minutes you wake up in the morning. I'm telling you that it'll be It might be the biggest game changer. It is the biggest game changer for me.
It was so difficult because so what I did is I I moved it away from where I sleep. But I'm just gonna say to you all, you think that's not a big deal. I gotta check it.
I'm telling you. If you could go thirty minutes, if you could start by going ten minutes to begin your day, something where you do not check that sucker and react. And then what you say about the gratitude thing that's profound for me, and it's a breakthrough for me when you said it, I'm always kinda like, what are the big things I'm grateful for god?
I'm grateful for my kids. You reduce it down to just something. What's the smallest thing you could be grateful for?
Right? I love that because there's always a small thing you could be grateful for. You know, I'm I'm I'm grateful my I clipped my toenails yesterday.
Whatever it is. Right? There's something so I just wanna validate how powerful I think both those simple tools the simplest things make the biggest impacts in our lives.
Okay. Couple more things. Yeah.
I wanna ask you some personal stuff for a minute. You got it. You talk a lot about protecting your confidence.
I'm a huge believer that, like, momentum and confidence is like this invisible force that we wish as influencers we could explain to people. Yeah. And it's just something you need to end up possessing.
I think you get confidence by keeping the promises you make to yourself. That's one of my theories. Great theory.
I want you to want you to describe that, but I'd also I'm willing I'm wondering if you'd be willing to share even recently. Yeah. The last four or five years, was there an incident where your confidence was rocked?
Yep. And so the importance of protecting it, and if you'd share a personal example Yeah. Maybe you haven't shared before.
Is a great question, Ted. I'm I'm really enjoying this. Thank you.
It's fun being here. And you have an amazing audience. You guys rock.
Thank you. So for me, confidence is I I just look at things again in the simplest form.
I've never done anything good in my life when my confidence was down. I never got the girl when I was young. I never closed the deal.
I didn't get the money I wanted. I didn't get partnership. And not not like your confidence is in the toilet and you're pathetic with your shoulders down.
I'm talking about your confidence is five percent off. Yeah. Did you ever go into a meeting and you know you're a little off and you're like, I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm just gonna grip my way through it and you come out and you're like, damn.
I should've just either ignored it or took a moment to build my confidence because I didn't get what I wanted. And I've just been obsessing on knowing that my confidence needs to be high at all times. Mhmm.
So there's a million different ways to go. I love what Ed said on how to build confidence, keeping the promises you make with yourself. Mhmm.
Incredible. What one of the things I do is I really obsess on looking at the things that take my confidence. Mhmm.
So for me, as simple as this sounds, is I haven't watched the news in ten years. Mhmm.
I don't watch it all. Mhmm. Because I've never watched the news and got down and go, wow.
I feel amazing. Like, you don't watch the news and go, Ed, hey man, I watched the news this morning. Dude, you got you should catch it at twelve.
You're not gonna believe it. You're not gonna believe shit is.
No. You watch the news, you're like, oh my god. Right?
The news. I know this sounds crazy and we know this is simple, but I've really eliminated the people in my life, and you've heard this a million times, that rob my confidence. Yeah.
And I've either became if they're family members, I put the Teflon up Yep. Or I've slowly pushed them out of my life. Mhmm.
And any exercise anything that I do robs my confidence, the people I surround myself. Exercises, like I said, don't work on your weaknesses.
I've obsessed on not to do list. So if I go, hey, when I do x y z, it robs my confidence. I don't like it.
I know it's gotta go out of my life. Like, my my threshold confidence builder, confidence detractor. If it's a detractor, it goes on the thing that's gotta go away.
So I would just encourage you. Think about the things, the people, the the events you do, the going to happy hour with the guys from work and all they do is complain about how shitty your job or your boss is or your company is. If that makes you feel bad about yourself, then they're they're robbing you of your bigger future.
So I would say one of the things besides what Ed said is make a list of the things that ding your confidence just a little bit and either reframe them or eliminate them. Wow. Very good.
And and I'll tell you I'll tell you a thing. You know, as entrepreneurs, it's like it's great when you see when someone does a post an entrepreneur.
It's like, oh my god. This is amazing. Oh, life sucks.
I'm gonna go broke. I'm losing everything. I should've never tried.
Oh, no. Wait. I found it.
Things are good. This is really good. I'm the greatest.
This I can't make a mistake. Oh my god. I screwed up again.
Right? That's the life of an entrepreneur, but I would choose it a million times over Yeah. Even with the failures.
But I have to tell you. So real estate education.
Right? So real estate was my life. That's what made me a millionaire in my twenties.
I I wrote a book, Be a Real Estate Millionaire. That book alone broke a million copies. And I wrote that book and and launched it in 2007 when the market was crashing.
Mhmm. Everybody was doing it the same way. I taught people on the way down, don't fix and flip, don't buy and hold.
We don't know where the bottom is. Wholesale on the way down. So I taught a wholesale strategy.
Book went on fire. I don't know if any other real estate book has ever sold a million copies, but we sold a million of that one. But on that way down, we built a company.
We probably went from 2007 to 2000 maybe 12. In that downturn, where all my competitors lived, they were all gone.
By the time we hit the bottom, they were gone. Mhmm. And we were a $100,000,000 a year company Mhmm.
And making a massive impact, and I was working hard to get more influence and all those things. Right? So company's growing while everybody else is going down.
So anyway, long story short, we became I became the number one real estate educator on the planet. No one has ever touched as many lives as we can. And I've held that title for a long time, but about four years ago, we were also in the live event space doing amazing sixty, seventy live events a week.
I wanted to go deeper because so many of my students, they can you can give somebody a business on how to sell $20 bills for $10, and they'll still screw it up. They'll find a way to find an obstacle.
They'll find a way to tell them that my family's my parents said this is a scam, or nobody's gonna wanna buy a $20 bill for $10. Like, they'll screw it up. Right?
So I became so obsessed with it and my deep relationship with Tony and the impact he has on people and his encouragement. I'm like, I wanna go into the successful. I wanna go upstream.
So my my whole philosophy was, I can provide you with the way to make money. But if I don't go upstream and provide you with the right habits Yeah. You're gonna think I'm a loser and my shit doesn't work, and I don't like that.
I don't want you sitting in Starbucks in five years going, I bought that Dean course. You can't make money in real estate. It's like, no.
You can't make money of anything. Right. Because you don't have the right habit.
So Yeah. I got obsessed with this and I started scaling down the real estate business Mhmm. And going into the success space.
Wrote millionaire success habits Yep. And just got obsessed on it. And I have to tell you, from going with the in 2013, my brands and my company, we did over $200,000,000 in sales.
To kinda wind that down and start fresh Mhmm. I wanted to leapfrog doing 200,000,000 a year in in Yes.
Success habits. Yep. And we took a dip.
And, of course, fortunately, do well, so I didn't let anybody go. And I told the whole team, we're gonna ride I've been here. I'm purposely riding this down so we can come back out.
But I have to tell you, was about a year in, I wrote the book, we first launched it, and a lot of people are confused like, you're real estate guy or the success Yeah. Guy. It's like, no, you have to be the success guy to be that big in real estate.
Right? You know this. Yeah.
And I have to tell you about a year and a half in, I wasn't getting the momentum I thought I should. Mhmm. And I started I was losing my confidence like, wow.
Maybe maybe because I'm older, maybe because I I ignored social media. Yeah. I did.
Because we were the number one show on infomercial wise, that was so big. I ignored social media, and I see all these people with a million followers. I didn't even barely start an account yet.
Yeah. Right? And all of a sudden, I start and I got 10,000 followers.
I'm like, wow. Does everybody know that? Look at the impact I made.
Now I'm like the little guy in town. Yeah. And then honestly, it dinged my confidence.
Thank you for sharing that. And and I started feeling a little insecure. What did you do about it?
I started getting my freaking story straight. The same thing as getting my priorities straight. I said, listen.
If I wanted to stay as the number one real estate guy, is is it is it my significance? You know what it was? It was my significance.
My show ran so much no matter where I went. People like, Dean, Dean, Dean, Dean, come in here. Sit in the front.
Go to the front row. Hop this. Let me buy you dinner.
All of a sudden, my show was off the air for two years Mhmm. And I'm not getting the the the Yes. The love, and I'm like, wow.
And, you know, it did it made me a better man though. Yeah. Because I realized what the hell am I doing it for?
I'm doing it because I wanna make an at this phase of my life. Yeah. I wanna make an impact on the world, and I wanna be a badass dad, and I wanna be a good man, and a good relationship.
Like Mhmm. That's what makes me successful now. Yep.
Like, it's not the money, it's not the significance. And when I decided I didn't care anymore Yeah. Oh, my God.
Like, Millionaire Success Habits, it was like it was like a key turned. I mean, the book, we're almost at 400,000 copies, and it's on fire right now. And that brand is growing.
We started millionaire success habits live events. Wow. And I'm partnering with some amazing people.
I have the highest level masterminds. Where do you wanted to get that book, by the way? Should they go to Amazon or should they to special site?
Dean's free book. Dean's free book. Yeah.
You can get it for free. If you cover the shipping and handling, we'll send you the hard cover. We'll put it right on the screen right now.
That I appreciate you sharing that because my favorite people and also the most successful people I know are the most self aware.
And they're I don't know. They're they're confident enough to share their vulnerabilities. Yeah.
And so I really appreciate you sharing that because I went through a similar thing when I went into this space too. And, also, we're both just competitive people Yeah. Even though it's still in the back.
Was like, man, why aren't I getting the tracks that I want? You know, I know about that. And even though your needs have moved to contribution, significance is still a big need for everybody.
Right? It's just always out. We can say I love to say I've evolved.
I'm not really a significance guy. Here to grow and contribute, which is true,
but there's an addiction to significance that's healthy as well. Right? Yeah.
And and I think but what's cool is and I see this with you, Ed, and I'm not just saying, but your significance is one thing, but that's not why you're do like Yeah. The significance is a great byproduct. There you go.
But your heart is the share Correct. To serve. So is yours.
And that's why and that's why we connect in two minutes, and that's why sometimes you meet someone like, oh. Yes. You know?
By the way, the only reason I connect with you is because you're so good at it. And I just wanna validate that. Everybody watch this.
I mean, we're gonna talk about where you'll follow him in a minute, but you his stuff is out freaking standing.
I love people to get into this space like I feel like I did that you have, which I think is rare. Like, they spent a portion of their lives building their belief systems, their strategies, their their way of doing things.
They've proven it with a success that so it's validated. Then they say, here's what I do Yeah. Rather than the other way around.
Yeah. So the reason your stuff so good is because it comes from a space of having done something. Right?
Get it. Talk lastly about and we just got so much stuff, but not the last thing, but the last part of my stuff out of your book. By the way, a lot of the things we're talking about here that are just starting to scratch the surface of what you get in millionaire success habits.
But story is a word you just used.
And I'm a big believer that I listen to people all the time, and they're always telling me their old story. Yeah. You know, they're just they live in a whole story, and they don't know it.
They don't know it. But the just the concept of a story overall that we tell ourselves,
you you speak about that probably more eloquently than anybody that I've heard. So just touch on the whole concept of Yeah. The cognizance of the story we tell ourselves.
Yeah. So I think I mean, even with me, like I said, I had to catch myself. I was telling myself a story Mhmm.
That maybe I should have stayed with the real estate brand. Mhmm. Maybe success there's so many people diluting it that haven't had the success.
They don't recognize the real thing. Like, I I had all kinds of stories. I'd look at people like, god, that guy seems like a scammer.
Why has he got 3,000,000 followers? Like, I started telling myself shitty stuff. Yeah.
And I felt bad. Yep. And I wasn't having the momentum that I know how to create.
Yeah. And then all of a sudden, changed that story, and I said, no. I know what I wanna do for people.
I'm the freaking best at it. There's nobody better than me. Give me a year.
I'll be far surpassed it, and then they'll realize they're actually learning from someone who's done it. Yeah. And nothing changed.
God didn't come down. The weather didn't change. My bank account didn't change.
There's nothing changed except my story. So so the part that I wanna share is I did a I did a interview with a young kid, Casey Adams.
Love Casey. I don't So he asked me, great kid.
Yeah. And he said, hey, man. At the end, maybe he asked you, he said, you were as a young kid, there's a lot of young kids listening.
What would be the one thing He did. That you would tell people? And I'd never been asked that.
I and literally what just came out is that your thoughts lie to you, and to question those thoughts.
Because when I look back at what stalled me or almost had me fail or the people around me, it had nothing to do with who's president, whether you like the president or not, if he's crazy or not, the economy, your family, your friends holding you down, a job that takes too much time. It's never any of that. The only thing standing between you and your next level, a better version of you, not not being me, not being Ed, not just a better version of the the only thing, and you might not believe me right now, but I promise you someday what you will.
The only thing standing between you and your next level, a better version of you is the story you tell yourself and why you can't get it. That's it. So good.
Well, mean, I think about it. I remember having a a real estate deal when I was broke, it's and a million dollar deal, and I got $4 in the bank. And I'm saying, I'll never get this money.
I'll never and I never could. And then all of sudden, like, no. Screw that.
I'm getting this money. And I would find it. It didn't matter if I had to beg, borrow, steal, you know, some with the banks, some on credit cards, borrowing from this guy.
I'd make the deal happen when nothing else changed. I didn't inherit money. I didn't get smarter.
My IQ didn't go up. I didn't have a Harvard education. I just willed it by changing the story.
So I guess an easy way for you guys to think about right now, if you talk about what you would where you would love to be, it's a year from now. It's the greatest year of your life and you'd love to be there. I'd love to be, you know, working on my own on my own company.
I'd love this to launch my own company. I'd like to have more time with my wife or my husband and my kids. Just say, but, and then fill in whatever that but is.
That's usually your story. But my boss keeps me my boss keeps me too busy, but my wife doesn't support me, but my family thinks I'm crazy, but I'm not that smart, but it takes money to make money. That's your shit story.
That's the thing. That's your anchor you're dragging across the desert. Flip that story, and immediately, that becomes the wind behind your sail.
I mean, I don't wanna oversimplify it, but at this phase of my life, it is oversimplified. And I still run into it. I will catch myself being in a shit space, worried about something, worried about something with my kids, worried about anything, and I'm like, why is this bugging me?
Why is this oh, because I'm telling myself lies. I'm telling myself some shitty stuff. I change it, and then I change in a second.
So good.
So good. Dude, like, you're like, you have said a couple things today that you were here to say to me.
Just so you know. And, like like, my the camera guys are all nodding right now. Right?
Like like, the person driving in the car should be pulling over right now, rewinding three minutes, writing that down right there because we all do get caught up in telling ourselves these stories that don't serve us. And the other thing I would just add to what Dean's saying, just my little part of it, is that if you can begin to get two or three or four people in your life that surround you that are aware of the great story you're telling because your life ends up being a direct reflection of what your peer group expects of you.
So you gotta be telling yourself that story and telling it to other people too. K. Couple last things.
Yeah. I've gotten to know you. One of my favorite things about you.
I think early in your career, my deduction is that you were moving away from the space you grew up in. Yep. Moving away from some of the pain in your family, the divorces, the financial hardships.
Dad sounds like a great guy, but a tough dude. Yeah. Kinda like mine and had his own things he was fighting like my old man did.
Our dad seemed sort of similar, frankly. Probably. And still talks to me like your dad talked to you then.
Right? In a good way. Yeah.
And now I feel like you move towards things for the most part. And I found with the people I just want you all to what are some of the little secrets that successful people have that they may not even be aware of.
The the people I've really connected with when I've done the show, they have massive reasons. Their reasons are emotional to them.
They're not just like big, like I want a beach house in a big ocean. Usually, the biggest reasons are other people. The thing that will just never leave your spirit or your heart is who you want to be to show up in your life for other people.
And for you, it's so obvious to me that it's your children. Yeah. And you talk about them 11 and nine?
Yeah. Yeah. You Brody and Brianna.
Yes. Okay. Good memory.
And I because I love both those names. Yeah. But I could tell they're your your reasons.
Right? Yeah. So just speak to that a little bit and and how other people should be viewing that in their own lives too because you get emotional right now, you do.
I do. I I I could have tears coming out of my face right now. Right now.
So they're your they're your inspiration. They're your reason. They're your driving force.
Yeah. So I just was having this girl conversation with my girlfriend Lisa here. And
we were talking about the things that drive you and the things that that want to be, you know, it's funny you say like I I have so many different emotions once.
Yeah. But she comes from an amazing family.
Mhmm. Just like you said your wife did. Yeah.
Like, amazing. She has Yeah. There's five siblings.
Their parents are together. They they're on a text string every day. They all talk every day.
Like, her phone's always blowing up and going off, and it's always inspirational, and they're they all support each other. One just lost their job, and their whole family's like, we'll all get together, and we'll it's finally time you start your own business anyway, and I'll build the website. I'll give you the money.
Like, it's unbelievable what they do, and I love both my parents. My mom and dad are amazing, but I didn't have that. Mhmm.
They split at three. Mhmm. I was three when they split, I lived with mom, then dad, and Graham, and they moved you know, I moved 20 times by the time I was 19.
Right? So it was all this insecurity. So but again, that was my journey.
Made me the man I am. So for me, one of the things is that I don't have something to refer to to be a good dad.
My father's father physically abused all the kids.
They were some of them were sexually abused. And his father did that. I think I look at this long lineage of screwed up Grasiosi's Mhmm.
And I knew it was gonna stop with me. Mhmm. Like, my sister did it.
She's an amazing mother. Actually, my nephew works for me.
Incredible kids. Like, the greatest kids you ever met. She stopped it.
Mhmm. And I wanna do the same thing. So I'm always in like, you and I, when we talk later, we'll probably just talk about being a parent because I love interviewing and talking to other great parents because I wanna learn because I don't have a blueprint.
Like I said, Lisa, she's got the blueprint. She grew up there. From it.
So for me, I wanna be a better man Mhmm. And always wanna continue to grow so I can set an example and change the way my kids see life and experience life.
I don't wanna raise entitled brats. It's the last thing this world needs. I want them to have hunger and drive and be good people.
And and one thing I'll share with you, a dear friend of mine, he's about fifteen years older than me. He said to me and he's done extremely well, just extremely well.
And he said, I think at the end of our lives, when you're on your deathbed, I don't think we'll ask any other question because you're a parent like me.
He said, you're a dad like me, I could see it. Mhmm. Because I think the question we're gonna ask ourselves is, did we do everything we could to give our kids the the tools to live a fulfilled life?
Mhmm. I said, I mean, because I don't think anything you won't say how many women did I sleep with, how much money did I make, how many buildings did I buy? It'd be like, wow.
Did I give the kids? And I said he said, you'll be able to go off to the next place. If you could say yes, you did your best.
He goes, but what if you can't say that? Jeez. And for me, it's like, that's all I think about.
It's Thank like you. That's one of the things. I I can't be the perfect I try I do everything I can to be a great dad just like you.
Yeah. But fundamentally, I wanna give them the tools to be thriving Me too.
And that's just one I mean, you asked me that I can talk about that. I wanna go conquer something right now thinking about that. I wanna be a better version.
Yep. I also you know, I love I love success. I love I love accomplishing something people say you can't, so do you.
Yeah. Your energy changes, When you tell your former story about what you're moving away from, just so you know, you even lean back when you tell it. And when you step into the story now for your children, lean forward.
It's amazing to watch. I've never said this on a show before,
but a thought occurred to me when you were talking because you remind me of other people who have said this. You deeply love your children, and I think everybody listening to this does. You know what?
If you used to erase everything today, guys, every show you've listened to, the most successful people I know and by the way, you're the first person that made me have the thought just because I feel how much you love these two children of yours. They harness love more.
They harness the emotion of love. They almost leverage love Yeah.
To go do something great because if if if love is the most powerful emotion in the world, right, if that's what it is, you have to harness that and leverage it to go do something extraordinary because that's the the overriding thing in this man's mind and heart all the time, all the time. When he leaves here and he's driving to San Diego with Lisa.
Right? When we're in the middle of the interview for a moment. Right?
All your parents relate to this. When he was driving over here this morning, one of the first things he thought about this morning, before he went to bed last night, was Brody and Brianna.
So but some of you don't harness that. It's almost like you love them, and then you set them aside when it's time for business. Right?
Don't do that. Harness that power of that love. Right?
It'll give you strength and confidence. So thank you so much for sharing that, man. Yeah.
Thanks for asking amazing questions. I think you're incredible, and I I just want you to know something.
Like, I I sense we're gonna do some more things together. So do I. You just you're a powerful big spirit.
And everything about you, you showed up fit. You know? I didn't know that necessarily.
This guy just everything that he's preaching, he's practicing. Not every day.
Neither one of us every moment. But I love how you show up in the world. So I want people, by the way, to experience your world too.
And I know everyone watching this, if you didn't know Dean before, most of you did. But if you didn't, you're like, woah. This is legit.
Right? This is legit. So where do they find you so that he can engage you?
Because he is new to social media. Yeah. He's building a legitimate following, by the A a real one that's growing and growing and growing.
In fact, recently, I've watched it start exploding in different social media platforms. What's the best place to find Instagram Okay. Under my name.
Okay. Spell it so that they know. We're gonna put it on the screen too.
Dean, d e a n g r a z I o s I. Dean Graziosi. And if you wanna grab the book, there's a special link at deansfreebook.com.
Okay. So you guys that are on the YouTube, you saw the link. And those of you that are on iTunes or Spotify, you heard it on the audio.
So last question for you, which I I'm bummed that it's over. Yeah.
I know. It's bit I'm having a blast. But but, you know, sitting next to a man who at one point in his life lived in a bathroom with his father as he is building a business.
And from that place of that journey, Upstate New York, you know, the gravel hit rocks hit in the car, the different setbacks. He had another business he had to take back where he had to pay off all the debt.
Mean, it's just unbelievable your journey. And you're sitting here today, and I think they've got a great insight.
I try to make the show where it's two successful people, and they just got, like, almost listen to us talk to each other. Yeah. But what if someone that's listening to this says, listen, man.
I wanna turn my life around. You know? There's people who says that have it going, and I think we've talked to them.
But, you know, I'm listening to this. I'm not where I wanna be. And I I wish I could DM you a question, Dean, but you're probably too busy to respond to all the DMs on Instagram.
And they just ask you, what would just be the recipe or a formula, your initial advice you would give me to having just a more fulfilled business, a more fulfilled life, a more fulfilled spirit and existence? What would be just your I mean, there's a million things you could say. Yeah.
But if you could give them something to start with, what would it be?
I would say, and I might have covered some of it, is really know where you wanna steer your ship. Mhmm. Like, what happens is, I think, we become somebody for our parents when we're young.
And then we might become someone for a relationship in, and we come become someone for a boss that we have, or a coworker, or or a partner, or our employees. And then we become someone if you go to church on Sunday, and then you become somebody every once in while, you sneak out to the club, and then you're someone there.
And we become all these people that I think what happens inside, we knew we had this destination of what we wanted, but it gets diluted by all these things that all these realities, like we should cover the mortgage, we should have the money so the kids can go to college, or I should not go like, we have all these things and we forget who we are.
What I would say is spend some time on remembering who you really are and what you really want, and start saying no to all the shit that doesn't point you in that direction. The only reason you're not going where you wanna go is because you're fragmented.
It's like fuzzy targets don't get hit. You need a crystal clear target, and I would say just spend time pretend it's a year from now or five years from now, and you're living the life that you wanted.
Maybe the life when you were younger, the life before all the the clutter, and find what that is, and find a way to obsess on it, and find a way to stop doing all the other shit. I mean, I keep getting simpler and simpler.
I start I I've been dressed I got, like, 20 of these t shirts. Yeah. I got hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of watch.
I stopped wearing like, I I'm finding myself getting simpler and simpler because I know where I wanna go Mhmm. And nothing else really matters anymore. Mhmm.
And if if someone would've given me that clarity younger, is realize that most people are wrong that are giving you advice.
The the other thing I'll say is the most costly advice in the world is bad advice. It's your broke friend telling you how to get make money. It's your single friend telling you how to fix your relationship.
Stop listening to all the crap. Listen to the good stuff like what you're hearing here and other wonderful people who have done it, and get rid of the stuff you shouldn't be doing, and stare at your destination
like an obsession. Oh my gosh. This is this has been a master class today, man.
Like, literally, this is a master class on success, on personal development. And what's great is you could tell, we're just scratching the surface.
And so that's why I want you interacting with Dean, why you want I want you following. This, like, flew by for me today. Brother, thank you so much.
You're I'm glad to have man. I You too. I'm blown away.
So everybody, I want you to follow Dean. I want you to get his book, and and by the way, his other books as well.
And I just wanna remind you to subscribe. If you're listening to this on iTunes, subscribe. Spread the word.
It's the best show in the world. It's the best program on earth. Do it.
And and if you're on YouTube, do likewise. Make some comments as well. Remember, every day on social media though, you guys, I try to engage with you on a deeper level than other people do sometimes on social.
And so we run the two minute drill every single day on Instagram. Right? And what that means is when I make a post on Instagram, within the first two minutes, if you just make a comment with the hashtag max out on there, you're in a daily drawing to get a chance to have a coaching call with me, some of my guests, gear from the max out store, autograph books, all kinds of great things happen.
We pick a winner every day. And if you miss the first two minutes, all you have to do is just make a comment every day. At the end of the week, we look at who's made comments on every post.
We pick a winner from there too, and it helps us engage. And you and I connect and with my guests as well. So please make sure you're making comments on all the social media posts.
And again, I hope you're enjoying today's program. I hope you take notes, spread the word to everybody else, and max out your life. God bless you, everybody.
The Hook
The bait, then the rug-pull.
The first minute is a produced reel of the interview's sharpest lines, then Ed Mylett opens with a direct promise: Dean Graziosi has frameworks for the gap between hustle and results, and this conversation is where he gives them away.
A 96-minute mashup of Ed Mylett solo teaching, a remote interview with James Clear, and an in-person interview with Jesse Itzler — all circling one thesis: the gap between where you are and where you want to be is not a knowledge problem, it is a reps and standards problem.
An 89-minute mashup episode on vision, will, and the one reason people quit — featuring a 19-year-old entrepreneur who built a hot sauce brand while living with cerebral palsy.
An 80-minute compilation of Ed Mylett interview clips on why discomfort is the only reliable path to growth — and why your worst years may be your greatest qualification.
Stage hypnotist Marshall Sylver walks Ed Mylett through certainty installation, embedded commands, and the four-step path to total enlightenment — in 39 minutes.
Ed Mylett opens MaxOut LIVE with the keynote behind his book -- a 68-minute argument that the margin between an ordinary life and an extraordinary one is exactly one more decision, anchored in his father's redemption from alcoholism.