33:48Sandy Lee AI · Tutorial
I Asked Claude to Make My Mom as Much Money as Possible (She's 60)
A 33-minute live tutorial on how to build a $3k/month AI UGC video business for someone with zero technical background.
May 25thThe argument in one line.
Landing high-ticket Upwork retainers with zero testimonials comes down to proposal volume, a simplified AI-built pitch system, and pricing with enough conviction that clients pay for confidence instead of track record.
Read if. Skip if.
READ IF YOU ARE…
- A beginner freelancer weighing Upwork who has no portfolio, no testimonials, and doubts they can compete on price.
- Someone with an existing skill (sales, customer service, coaching, healthcare) who has never connected it to a paid online client.
- A parent or full-time employee trying to build side income in small nightly windows instead of full workdays.
- Anyone who instinctively underprices themselves because they lack proof and wants a pricing-psychology reset.
SKIP IF…
- You already run an agency with case studies and referral flow; this is zero-to-one advice, not scaling an existing client base.
- You're looking for platform mechanics beyond Upwork; this doesn't cover Fiverr, cold outreach, or paid lead generation.
The full version, fast.
Mar, a full-time employee and mother of a toddler, landed an $8,000 monthly retainer and later a $25,000 project on Upwork within two weeks of starting, with no testimonials, no portfolio, and only 13,000 combined social followers that had never converted to income. Her method was volume over polish: brute-force proposal sending until her 23rd application landed, a simplified AI tool (built first in Claude, then stripped down onto ChatGPT) that drafted her pitches, and one generic Loom video reused across clients instead of a custom one each time. She applied within 12 hours of a posting, never overbid connects to rank first, and priced on confidence rather than market comparison, treating a client relationship as already real before the contract was signed.
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Create a free account →Who's talking.
00:00hostSandy Lee
01:12guestMar
Where the time goes.
00:00 – 01:12
01 · Cold open: "they said I was the most expensive"
Teaser of Mar's $25,000 close and the line that anchors the interview: clients paid a premium for her conviction, not her proof.
01:12 – 02:23
02 · Meet Mar
Host introduces Mar: a busy mom with a full-time job, two weeks into freelancing, already past her first $8,000 monthly retainer.
02:23 – 03:50
03 · Brute force mindset
Mar describes finding the host's content, setting a goal of 100 proposals with no expectation of a response, and closing her first client on proposal 23.
03:50 – 05:44
04 · What a proposal is
Proposals explained as paid job applications on Upwork; Mar's early trial run of 111 researched jobs and only 7 submissions before burning out and resetting her approach.
05:44 – 06:49
05 · Building the profile
Revamping the Upwork profile: colorful photo background, rewritten title and description, done fast before the first proposals went out.
06:49 – 12:42
06 · The AI proposal skill
Mar built a simplified AI proposal-writer, starting in Claude and stripping it down onto ChatGPT, pairing it with one generic (not per-client) Loom video sent while putting her son to bed.
12:42 – 14:57
07 · What to search first
Starting niche was GoHighLevel; general advice to pick a skill you can honestly defend on a call, and pair it with an AI or revenue angle for any niche, not just marketing.
14:57 – 16:42
08 · US vs worldwide
Mar stopped limiting searches to US-only jobs; her most recent and highest-paying clients, including ones who called her the priciest quote, are outside the US.
16:42 – 17:56
09 · How to pick clients
Filters: matching industry experience, verified payment as a legitimacy signal, and skipping jobs that already have 4-5+ people being interviewed.
17:56 – 20:38
10 · Connects and bidding
Never overbidding connects to rank #1, always sending the minimum connects required regardless of job value, and applying within 12 hours of posting.
20:38 – 23:25
11 · Applying as a busy mom
20-30 minute nightly windows sending proposals while putting her toddler to bed, timed to the 8-9:30pm peak posting window on weeknights.
23:25 – 28:48
12 · Inside the interview
Proposals open with the client's problem, not her pitch; interviews run mostly on vibe and conversation rather than skills testing.
28:48 – 34:12
13 · Pricing strategy
Pricing based on confidence in delivery, not market comparison or the client's stated budget; quoting $25,000 against an $18,000 stated max and winning.
34:12 – 38:37
14 · Manifesting the deal
Treating the relationship as already real before signing: inviting the prospect into her own Slack and calling them 'client' before the contract closed, framed as manifesting tied to her faith.
38:37 – 44:51
15 · Setting client boundaries
Fixed response-time boundaries set at onboarding, over-delivering inside those limits instead of being always-on, plus her longer-term goal of building a small agency that teaches business owners to run their own marketing.
44:51 – 47:47
16 · Starting from zero
Closing message: her edge was reps, not audience size; celebrate the first proposal sent as a win in itself.
Lines worth screenshotting.
- A first-time Upwork freelancer landed an $8,000 monthly retainer on her 23rd proposal and a $25,000 project a week later, with zero testimonials and zero prior clients.
- She had 13,000 Instagram followers and 1,000 YouTube subscribers built over three years that never generated income, then made money on Upwork before gaining a single new follower there.
- Her bidding rule: never spend extra connects to rank first, even on a $20,000 job that only costs seven connects to apply to.
- She only applies to jobs posted within the last 12 hours, and treats anything older than a day as already buried under competing applications.
- She skips any listing with more than four or five people already being interviewed, regardless of the budget.
- Her recent highest-paying clients were outside the United States, after she stopped limiting her searches to US-only jobs.
- She sends the same generic Loom video to every prospect instead of customizing one per client, and says it converts as well as the customized version did.
- She builds trust before the contract is signed by inviting the prospective client into her own Slack workspace and labeling them 'client' before the deal closes.
- Her pricing rule is to quote what she's confident she can deliver, not the client's stated budget: she quoted $25,000 against a stated $18,000 maximum and won.
- She sets response-time boundaries at onboarding because clients who get 24/7 access stop respecting the relationship.
- In her framing, an Upwork interview is roughly 10% skills test and 90% whether the client enjoys talking to her.
- She sends proposals and books calls in 20-30 minute nightly windows while putting her toddler to bed, timed to the 8-9:30pm window when most jobs get posted.
Proposal volume and priced conviction beat proof every time.
WHAT TO LEARN
A first-time freelancer with no testimonials closed five-figure retainers by treating rejection as a numbers game, building one simple AI tool instead of a portfolio, and pricing on confidence rather than comparison.
02Meet Mar
- A full-time job and a toddler are not disqualifying constraints for starting a freelance income stream; the work fits into the time that's actually available.
- Two weeks is a realistic window to go from zero freelance experience to a signed high-ticket retainer when volume is the strategy.
03Brute force mindset
- Sending a high, fixed proposal quota without expecting a response turns early rejection into a statistical input instead of a discouragement.
- Her first client came on proposal 23, not proposal 1 — the volume approach requires surviving the string of nothing before the first yes.
04What a proposal is
- An early attempt at 111 researched jobs and only 7 submissions led to burnout; the fix was sending faster and less precious about each one, not researching harder.
- Getting the reps in matters more than getting each individual proposal right.
05Building the profile
- Revamp the basics fast (photo, title, description) and start sending; the profile doesn't need to be perfect before the first proposal goes out.
06The AI proposal skill
- A rough, self-built AI tool that drafts a proposal in minutes beats a polished, hand-customized one you don't have time to send consistently.
- One generic outreach video reused across every prospect can convert as well as a custom one per client, freeing up the time that actually determines volume.
07What to search first
- Pick a skill you can honestly defend in an interview rather than the most in-demand-sounding niche.
- Almost any skill, not just marketing, can be paired with an AI or revenue angle to become relatable to a business-owner client.
08US vs worldwide
- Skipping US-only filters on a global platform can widen access to higher-paying clients rather than diluting quality.
- Time zone differences can be a service advantage (faster after-hours turnaround) rather than a barrier.
09How to pick clients
- Verified payment status is treated as a legitimacy signal worth filtering on; reviews and hire history are not.
- Passing on jobs with 4-5+ competing interviews already scheduled protects proposal budget for winnable jobs.
10Connects and bidding
- Bidding extra connects to rank first is not necessary; sending the minimum required connects on a high-value job is enough to get seen.
- Applying within 12 hours of a job posting matters more than almost any other filter, since a day-old post is already buried.
11Applying as a busy mom
- A tight, repeatable nightly window (20-30 minutes) is enough volume if it's timed to when jobs actually get posted.
- Tracking the platform's peak posting hours turns a scarce time budget into a targeted one.
12Inside the interview
- Leading a proposal with the client's problem, not your pitch, signals understanding before you've said anything about yourself.
- In an unproven freelancer's interview, being genuinely interested in the client matters more than demonstrating the skill itself; skill is roughly 10% of the decision.
13Pricing strategy
- Pricing on your own confidence to deliver, not the client's stated budget or competitors' rates, can win jobs at double the next-highest quote.
- Charging low to compensate for missing testimonials tends to attract clients who don't respect the working relationship.
14Manifesting the deal
- Acting as if the relationship already exists (inviting a prospect into your own workspace before signing) builds the trust that closes the deal.
- Framing the outcome as already decided, before it is, is presented as a mindset tool as much as a tactic.
15Setting client boundaries
- Setting explicit response-time boundaries at onboarding, and holding them, earns more respect than being always available.
- Leading the conversation with proactive suggestions, instead of only reacting to requests, avoids becoming an order-taker.
- The longer-term play is building a small agency that trains business owners to run their own in-house marketing rather than staying dependency-based.
16Starting from zero
- A large but unmonetized social following isn't a prerequisite for paid work; a pay-to-apply platform can convert faster than an audience with zero followers on it.
- Treating the first proposal sent as a win worth celebrating, independent of outcome, is what sustains the volume the whole approach depends on.
Terms worth knowing.
- Connects
- Upwork's pay-to-apply currency. Roughly 10-12 connects equal $1, and each proposal submitted spends a set number of them.
- GoHighLevel (GHL)
- An all-in-one marketing and CRM software platform, and a common freelance niche searched for on Upwork.
- Loom video
- A short screen-recorded video attached to a job proposal to build trust with a client before a call.
- Fractional marketer
- An outside specialist who works part-time as a business's in-house marketing person without being hired full-time.
- Brute force (proposal volume)
- Sending a high, fixed daily quota of Upwork proposals regardless of early response rate, treating rejection as statistically expected rather than discouraging.
Things they pointed at.
10:20toolClaude
10:50toolChatGPT
05:44toolLoom
36:40toolSlack
37:40bookThe Secret
04:10channelNick Zarayev
46:40toolBlotator
46:50toolOpus
Lines you could clip.
00:15
“They can feel the conviction in the way you speak, and that's how much you can charge.”
02:30
“23rd proposal is when I actually signed my very first one.”
19:10
“If it's seven connects, but the job is like $20,000, I'm cool with that. I never add any more money to it.”
36:50
“I already got them into my Slack. I already have been chatting with them. I called them client in my Slack... before the deal was even signed.”
39:00
“The more you say no to clients, the more they respect you.”
47:20
“Even if it's just sending your first proposal, that's a win. Celebrate that.”
Where the conversation goes.
00:00 – 06:49denseOrigin story and brute-force mindset
06:49 – 20:38denseAI proposal system and Upwork search/filtering mechanics
20:38 – 28:48Application workflow as a busy parent, plus interview approach
28:48 – 38:37densePricing psychology and manifesting the close
38:37 – 47:47Client boundaries, delivery philosophy, and future goals
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metaphoranalogy
This morning, we finalized everything. That was $25 ,000. You mentioned that the very first niche that you searched was go high level of work.
Originally, I started just looking for jobs within the United States. The last couple ones that I've done are actually not in the United States. They have told me that I'm...
the most expensive of all the quotes, but they went with me. But you did the opposite. You're like, hey, you're really confident and then you're promising them I'm going to deliver the result.
Here you go. They can feel the conviction in the way you speak and that's how much you can charge. This is Marv.
She's a busy mom with a full -time job. She started her online business less than two weeks ago. She didn't even have a testimonial, no clients, and zero followers on social media.
She only had two to three hours a day to work towards. her business after her kids go to bed and she still closed her first eight thousand dollars a month retainer within her first week in this video she will tell us exactly how she did it and share us some tips that were never shared before and that was like 23rd proposal is when i actually signed my very first one so that was my experience and i was like is this even real hey mar I'm so glad you're here.
I'm especially excited to talk to you because throughout the community, you share your wins with us. I actually made money through AI in different ways. And I want people to hear from you just because you're very relatable.
since you just barely started it not even two weeks ago how about like introduce yourself in that way people who don't know who you are they get to know you a little bit thank you for having me and you taking your time talking with me tonight i know you're really busy so i really appreciate it and glad to be here my journey started with your community actually because i saw one of your videos where you were talking about upwork and and i was just like wait a minute i have never really taken advantage of upwork i didn't know that still Then I started watching a lot of your videos.
I like binge on all of them. Right after, I would say like five days after binge watching your videos, I revamped my profile. And then I saw one of your videos where you talked about how to create your profile and things like that.
I just followed it so fast. And then I saw one of your videos with Nick Zarayev. It's inspired me even more.
And one of the things that you were talking about was like, so how do you drive success today? and then he said just brute force it made me really get to work my original goal was to send a hundred proposals in a day then I quickly realized that it was very hard it was not realistic I'm not new to digital marketing I'm not new to content creation I've been creating content for, honestly, a couple years now.
One of the misconceptions up until I actually saw your video was that I should build my personal brand. I should have followers. And that was not the case for me.
I did that and I have followers. It's not a lot. It would say like 13 ,000 and then 1 ,000 on YouTube.
When I saw your video, I started over, started from zero. And within a week, wow, I'm actually getting all of these responses. It made me excited because my dedication, because of you.
your conversation with Nick was that brute force. It doesn't matter. I'm not going to expect any response until I have a hundred proposals sent out.
And that was like. 23rd proposal is when I actually signed my very first one. So that was my experience.
And I was like, is this even real? I think that was before I joined your community. Oh, is that right?
But I was following you. Yeah, I saw your video. I've been seeing your ads.
And I was like, you know, I didn't know that you had a community until I saw your ad. But I was following you. And I was just like, you know what brute force, I kept reminding myself.
And then yeah, it was crazy. That's awesome. I love hearing that.
Wow, your goal is to set 100 different proposal. And for those of who don't know what proposal is in upwork it's like a job application you pretty much have to pay money to put your job application to your client and eventually they'll see the proposal if they like you you can set up an appointment or meeting and that way the success happens when it comes to signing up the client by the time you have 23 proposals then you said you got the first client which is the eight thousand dollar deal is that right Yes.
In the beginning, I was like, oh, I saw it. I was like, big numbers just make me excited. But I had no expectations.
I was telling my husband, I'm like, hey, I just sent my proposal to this. I don't know where it's going to be, but it's aligned. I use this skill where I just trust it.
If it says propose this much, I just go with it. I don't argue. I have no energy.
And I just went with it. And I got on a call with them. It was my fourth call, actually.
It wasn't that good, honestly. And the fourth one, I was just like, I want this job. I gave it my best.
And I asked for the job right there. I know I had my fingers crossed when you posted in my community too, because you were asking, like you were talking about, hey, I'm about to sign this $8 ,000 deal. I really want it.
And when you said you got it, I'm like, oh my gosh, yes. I'm so glad you got it. But let's talk about the step -by -step.
when it comes to actually applying for job because for those of them who's hearing they might think upwork is pretty much dead or online businesses they're very saturated these are some of the mindset that a lot of people have including myself i used to have that mindset as well i just want to hear from you like what are some of the possibility that are out there do you think it is still very saturated or based on your experience is there still a lot of opportunity i was the same way when i thought of it i was like i don't even know if this is for me i thought that they were like bigger projects so the first step that i took was I took your advice to like create the profile, make it colorful in the background.
Orange is not even my color, but I was like posting my photo. It would not take the green. It wouldn't take red.
It wouldn't take anything else. It wouldn't take pink. And it took orange.
I'm not a fan of orange, but I have this amount of time to like post it. Let's just go with it. And then I did a revamp my title, my job description.
And then I was just like, that's it. I think the first day I just. started sending because I'm familiar with Go High Level.
So I was looking for like Go High Level. So it's like GHL. And I quickly realized that a lot of those jobs are just not very good, but I just needed a rep.
So that was the part of it. I submitted in that one day, in two hours, I researched 111 to be exact jobs. And out of those, I only submitted seven and I burnt out and I took a break.
And then I said, okay, so it's either I'm going to go deep. and not get it done or just do it and get it done. And that's when I started building the skills.
I got it from you, actually, one of the skills that you did. And then I built it together. I simplified it for me because it overwhelms me when it's like super complicated with like Claude.
So I stripped it down to like so simple and I put it on ChatGPT and built it. a codex version of it I would just like copy and paste while I'm putting my son to bed copy and paste a description and it was like it would give me like proposal letter like the application then I would record my loom video because he said the loom video would help and I did that and then I just keep going until I was actually like sending like three days I would say like 10 a day and then another 10 the second day i got a response from them and then i scheduled the interview i was so nervous and i just went with it i'm like just keep showing up my instinct on my second interview was like the first one was like terrifying i don't even know because i'm used to it i'm on zoom all the time but it was still terrifying on the other side of it when i was the one being interviewed like business owners that were interviewing me they had their cameras on and so i was just like okay this is good i think god is just telling me you know there's nothing to be
worried about or be scared about. So I just went with it. So that was the process that I did.
Inside a community, you were talking about just get the reps in. And that's what I was thinking about. Just get it in.
It doesn't have to be perfect. And until it became just a habit, I would just do that. And then eventually, I got responses.
I wasn't able to respond to any of them. And I would just pick and choose the ones that I would respond to. And that's how I ended up with my first one.
Yeah. Okay. I love this.
The whole story is fascinating just because You are not a freelancer before, right? Like in terms of applying for jobs in Upwork, this is your first time of doing it.
And there's a lot of opportunities still who's getting a lot of different clients through this way. For those of them who's listening to this for the first time, it's like, okay, now I understand the concept of it. But then...
What you just shared, I think I understand it, but not fully. Just because if they haven't done it, they don't really know what the proposal is. They don't really know what sending Loom video is, right?
You and I both know because we've been there. So I kind of want to break down step by step, if you don't mind. When you first, first started it, like one of the advantage that you had is you had access to me, other community members, you could have asked them and then they just respond to you, help you out.
Right. But for those of them who's listening right now, they probably don't have those access. So I'm hoping that if we can break down like step by step for them and that way they can follow your process.
And hopefully get the result. Very simply, the way I looked at it, I just actually posted my first job on Upwork because I wanted to test it out as well the way you did, but also I needed help with something else. So then I can simplify it.
If you are somebody who has not been doing any freelancing or anything. It was hard for me in the very beginning because I didn't even know how to narrow it down. You have to be realistic with what you truly can do.
And then once you define that service that you can provide to other people or business owners, you just have to... Go for it. And then you have to do some self -inventory and knowing that you can, can you actually do this when you go in an interview?
Can you defend it? Especially if you're using AI. Number one, overcomplicate it.
And number two, make you over qualify for a job. It will kind of like blow up maybe your qualification and things like that. And that was one of the things that I wanted to do is I want to simplify it.
I want to help. I want to be able to deliver a simple service. Once you create your profile, You want to make sure that it just truly reflects your experience.
And then when you're looking for a job, like if you have never used Fiverr as a business owner to hire somebody, it's a different story on the other side as well. If you're the one applying for it, always the simple process and the simple service that you could offer is the best thing that you can do for yourself. Again, be realistic, apply for a job that you can.
confidently deliver number one confidently defend during a call and confidently deliver and deliver at the utmost care and best possible service give them the possible service so my recommendation for anyone who has never done it before is very simply use ai again but you want to just make sure that this is something that is a true reflection of your experience the way you speak business owners know that we use ChatGPT and we use AI.
The biggest thing is how you're going to defend that during the call. And again, look for a job that you are truly interested in and you're truly experienced because then the interview makes it easier. That's a really good sales technique just because you have to understand how you pitch your idea or presentation itself.
That's the most important thing I would say, which is knowing how to present yourself and your business, even though you just barely started it. Even though you don't have any testimonials, any background of this one particular thing, as long as you can present yourself that you will achieve the things that they want, then there's a higher chance of them hiring you.
Honestly, at the end of the day, they're trying to look for the vibe. They're like, hey, can this person work with me? That's what they're trying to do.
Somebody who is really experienced, but they're like the biggest, the mean person in the world, then people don't really want to work with you. That's the reason why it's really important to be more presentable. And it seems like you did that.
You did it in a way that's simple. And also you just, even though you're not really confident in a certain thing, you just did it. But I'm going to ask you a couple of questions so that people can actually get started with this too in Upwork.
Because for you, you have a couple other clients that you're about to sign that are huge deals too. And I really hope you get it. My fingers crossed.
I'm like, oh, I hope Mark gets it. But let's go over step by step. The very first niche that you searched was GoHighLevel on Upwork.
So let's just say I'm brand new. I don't exactly know where to start. All I know is I want to make money.
using AI online. And I heard this Upwork thing is good. What should I even search on Upwork?
And should I even go with everywhere in the world or just United States? So what are some of the things that you did there? Let's say it's not something about marketing or it's not anything about video editing, nothing with marketing, nothing with internet or anything like that at all.
If it was like, say, customer service, there's, I would say pick your skill that you can confidently do for example customer service that has nothing to do with ads has nothing to do with youtube that has nothing to do with canva and i realized that in upwork there's all kinds of jobs not just digital marketing a coach somebody's looking to be a coach or maybe like a doctor i think it's because the confidentiality or inside upwork you have to pay in order to do that based on my experience is that start with what you know and it doesn't have to be anything with digital marketing if it's customer service if you were a nurse or if you are somebody who's a healer for example natural healing type of thing there's some of those things because i was like looking at this i'm like this is just not ads it's not just like video creation or how to go on instagram or how to build a website there's a whole lot of different a wide range of skills that you can bring into Upwork.
My recommendation is in order for you to be relatable, definitely pair that with something that has to do with AI, with saving them time, making them more money, get them customers or retain customers. Anything to do with helping business owners increase revenue and even customer service. It has nothing to do with internet.
That has nothing to do with lead generation, but that's retention. so like now that people search based on their experience should they go for like everybody in the world or just the united states what has been working for you mar originally started just looking for jobs within the united states the last couple ones that i've done are actually not in the united states believe it or not i think it's because of the time zone that i could do deliver better like after hours and things like that australia for example europe for example that was my mentality as well it's like i'm only going to look for jobs in the united states but that's not the case for me i just i look all over there's different parts of the country where you can find jobs i don't limit myself to just the united states the last two calls that i've had they told me and they're not from the united states they have told me that i'm the most expensive of all the quotes, but they went with me.
They mentioned that the last proposal was like double, like I'm double of the last proposal, but they chose me. Don't overthink even the price in your proposal. Like sometimes, like say for example, I never really thought that that was like me overcharging.
I'm not overcharging. And I use it based on what I can deliver, what I can confidently deliver. I never thought that I'd be, what if I was the most expensive?
Or what if this was too cheap? In order for you to be able to deliver great results. You have to charge the right way so that you have room to actually bring it to the best value.
And so, no, my experience is not just in the United States. And even the big ones are not from the United States. That was my experience, which was I'm actually very, very surprised.
But I did not really want to limit myself in the United States because there are some in Canada as well. There's one that I have in the United States and the rest are outside the country. Wow, that's interesting because I only did United States.
when i did it but that's very fascinating to hear that there's a lot of different opportunities all across from the world so like now that they people picked out the country and their background and then search for it what is a good job application like good client do you look for their reviews do you look for just the price how much money they put hourly versus fixed price or like do you look at how long this has been posted like what are some of the metrics that you actually look at so the first thing that i look at is the type of industry that they're in if that is included in their job post that's one thing like say for example if i am not experienced on a job that i know how to do but if i'm not experienced in that industry or i have no experience i would apply like maybe that's not the first job that i would apply to also i look at payment there if their payment is verified i that to me it tells me that they are legitimate human and the other side of it i never look at reviews i never even look if they have hired in the past the one thing that i pay attention to is if they have more than four or five people that they are interviewing currently for that position then i don't waste my connect as you know for those of you who don't know what connect is on upwork you have to like pay in terms of
connect and like 10 or 12 connect connects are like a dollar equivalent. I don't know if you remember that. That's one of the things.
And the other thing too, is when I first started sending proposals, I used to bid like a lot. Like I want to be number one. I would say two weeks.
I don't have to do that. I send the minimum. I don't like add any more just to be number one.
I never do that. If it's seven connects, but the job is like $20 ,000. I'm cool with that.
You know, I'll send the seven connects. I never add any more money to it. Just, I don't know if it helps because I don't do it.
Interesting. Have you done it before? I did.
I did it before, but I never really, that's when I got exhausted when I was trying to send this much people. I want to be number one. I want to be on top.
But then I sent 13 to 15 proposals every night. Wow. That's a lot of proposal.
That is a lot. Even like for me, when I did 10, I'm like, I'm exhausted. That's very interesting.
I'm going to go over what kind of things you're saying in proposal as well as the video. But let's go back to the bidding part. The recent client that you got for $8 ,000 and a couple other clients that you got, are those from the people that you bid so that you can be number one, so more visibility?
Or are those like just the basic connects, which is the money to apply? Those are the ones that, from my experience anyways, those are the ones that under 16 connects, I did not bid on any of those. And I don't have my profile boosted either.
Okay. And then do you only apply for jobs that are like recently posted or would you apply for jobs that are a little bit older too? I think that one of the best things that you could do is as soon as the job is posted, the freshest it is, the best time to...
to apply if i see like i have a notification on my phone that as soon as i see it i apply immediately i've been i never failed in that so i only apply at night time if it was something that was yesterday i never apply it's it has to be at least within the last 12 hours oh interesting so there's the difference right there you don't do it if it's past 12 hours and then the more recent it is better and it's actually that's very very true because i put a couple things to hire freelancer for myself for my business on Upwork.
And as soon as when people apply, since I've been online already, I just like to check on them. But then if it's a day old, I already got 50 applications. I'm like, I don't really look at new application.
You're already overwhelmed. Yeah, already super overwhelmed. So that's really cool that you do that.
So let's go over the actual applying process because you're a mama. you're busy being a mom itself is a full -time job honestly for having a toddler especially when do you even have time to apply for jobs first of all high management and the second how do you faster the process when it comes to applying for jobs because we don't want you to take like 30 minutes to take apply for one job yes truthfully i send my proposals when i'm putting my toddler to bed and laying down you know as i'm like come on let's go to sleep a lot of my generic uh to just showcase my ability to build systems or whatever it is in my niche and my chat gpt it adds it on it on my framework that i put together but i still read it um and say oh that's not me that's too much you know what i mean it's too much fluff for example that's when i send my proposals is when i put my son to bed i would say it's like 20 to 30 minutes a night again it's not we don't have a lot of time but also i noticed there's a peak time of like business owners that are posting their jobs which is like between 8 to like 9 30 it's like bam bam bam bam bam i see them i was like this is and i also tuesday wednesday and thursday monday maybe you know but then that's when i go back to like say no okay that was 10 hours ago i'll send my proposal to this i was a little bit
aggressive when it comes to like okay i need to send at least 10 but now not so much only if it's like interesting to me that i know that i would enjoy but yeah that was the time and what was the second one what was your second question time management is the first one and second one was how are you able to faster i think you just kind of answer it both at the same time which is good let's go over your actual proposal a little bit deep dive into it because you just mentioned that you have very generic video that you send i think that's really smart Because when I did it, I customized every single Loom video and that will take forever.
But it sounds like you sometimes do it and sometimes you don't, right? For the clients that you got recently, is that the generic Loom video you sent or is this the customized Loom video? They're one of the generic ones because I have resorted into sending my applications while I'm putting him to bed at nighttime.
So I'm in bed. So it's either I miss that first... 20 minutes of the job being posted or i will wait the next day to do a loom video that is custom to them so either one of those loom video that was generic that it was attached to it so because i don't do the loom videos anymore apparently those work the generic ones work yeah That's so much better.
I'm all about saving time and it sounds like that will save a ton of time. So that's perfect that you're seeing some success through that. When you actually got the client with an interview, what are some of the things that you actually went over with the client?
The most common thing when you go in an interview is they will test you out for the skill that you were like the major skill. Like if it's something to do with running ads, they're going to test you out. I know you were asking about what's in that proposal.
I customize that based on the problem. I start with their problem on the very top, like you said, because they don't read. So I immediately.
have recommendation on the very first sentence. I want them to know that I understand their problem right off the bat. So I used to actually, before I go and interview, I used to read the proposal.
Now I don't do that anymore because now I keep going into these interviews and I go through the proposals that I sent to them. So I don't have to review those anymore. So during the call, depending on the vibe between the two of you and the dynamic between the two of you, if you like them and there's good relationship, right away.
They don't really ask about your skills or test you out and things like that. Yes, they will test you out. But on a conversational level, I don't have proof to show them.
My last interview was that, well, you know, Mar, number one, you're the most expensive. And number two, you don't have the proof. But we want to work with you because they like me.
That's what they told me. And I was just like, oh, cool. Because when I was just talking to them, I was just being myself at the same time.
I removed all the pressure that I'm like, I want this job or anything like that. Be yourself, have fun with it. That is like, I would say the best thing that you could do and do yourself a favor is have fun with it.
Yes, have the knowledge, but you don't have to have the knowledge because first of all. You were able to inventory yourself before you even post your job out there, before you even look for this job. You know, you have the experience.
You just need to bring it out to the surface. In the conversation, I would say 10 % of it is about skill. The rest is just the dynamics between the two of you.
I love that. It is. It's all about sales, right?
Sales is all about listening to their problem. And I tell everybody, I was not experienced with SEO at all, but I was able to. deliver amazing result just because I was dedicated at fixing their problem.
And with AI, everything is possible. Signed this client, didn't deliver the project or the result. Then I called that a scam, but I actually exceeded their expectation.
That's why I increased the price. And also it was a monthly retainer for a long time. So it sounds like that's what you're doing too.
That's just fascinating how you were able to connect with the client because you're like, hey. I'm just being myself. I'm enjoying this conversation with them and they enjoy conversation with you.
So thank you for sharing that. That's a really, really good tip. Let's talk about afterwards because right now you sign up your $8 ,000 client monthly retainer.
And also don't you have another one that's coming up really or you're working on it? I forgot the amount. I just closed them.
You just closed them. Yeah, this morning we finalized everything. I was still this morning.
I was so high on life. I mean, I've been working. It's like a week.
I just remembered I sent the proposal like a week ago. I honestly didn't know because I don't know. I just had fun with it.
And they told me that, you know, hey, listen, you don't have proof, but you talk a big talk. That's what they said. And you're the most expensive.
You know what I did? One of the secret things that I did, I was like, before I even close it, I already got them into my Slack. I already have been chatting with them.
I called them client in my Slack. I have them. I was showing my, you know, I have their Slack channel inside my Slack.
And they're like, add me because I was sharing my screen with them during the call and say, add me to your Slack. And that's how we started communicating. And that's how we finalized it.
You saw yourself already working with them and act yourself like. like act already as if you're working with them. I already called my client.
I love it. Love that. And then you don't have to talk about the niche specifically, but how much was that deal again?
Oh, that was $25 ,000. Yeah. For eight weeks, right?
If I remember correctly. Yeah, I was able to get the 90 days total, actually. Originally $17 ,000 for eight weeks.
But I offered $25 ,000 for four weeks build and then 90 days optimization. Even better. Even better.
That's crazy. Imagine getting four of those clients. You're already at $100 ,000.
So good. Did you post it in the community? I did, yeah.
There's another one that I'm working on, yeah. And honestly, the pricing was that originally I was going to offer a different one, a different price, but I said, I want this job. I want this job, so I lowered the price.
And then they said I was still the most expensive. Oh, I see your comment. Okay, gotcha, gotcha.
That's so inspiring. You're like a go -getter. One of the fascinating part is that you kind of don't care the fact that you don't have testimonials.
Meaning... A lot of people, if they don't have testimonials or proof, then they tend to act smaller or think themselves as a smaller being in some way to a point that they don't charge as much. And they're like, because I don't have this, I'll just charge you like 500 bucks, you know, like way undercharge them.
But you did the opposite. You're like, hey, you're really confident. And then you're promising them, I'm going to deliver the result.
Here you go. So that's really cool. So let's talk about the pricing strategy, Mark.
If people are learning how to do this, they should learn from you in terms of how to price better so that people don't undercharge themselves. So how did you come up with the price, first of all? The roadmap that I follow is how can I deliver at the highest level?
Is it something that I would hate as I'm doing it? And if I don't like the process, if I don't like doing it, it's not because I'm not getting paid enough for it. But the lower your price, that's exactly what my new client, we're not looking for the cheapest one.
You're going to attract people that are going to walk all over you. In my experience, in the last few months, the cheaper the prices, you are going to attract the people that are going to, number one, not respect you. No offense, it could be totally the same exact.
client, but the way you deliver your pricing, your offer, your positioning could treat you a whole new different way based on how you position your pricing. And how I price my offer is based on how confident I am, how I can deliver. I don't even look at the comparison.
Like say, for example, if they post, they say my max budget is 18 ,000. I can do this at 25 ,000. And the reason for that is I'm not going to short you with.
the service that you're going to get from me, this is how it's going to cost you, you have to back up the pricing. And also, you don't have to over explain it. If you have experience, if you truly have experience, that's why I always say, when you are going to post a job or your profile, you want to make sure that it's true to your experience.
When it's true to your experience, it's going to come out. Now, say, for example, you're not truly experienced, but you have some sort of exposure. You want to channel that.
You want to bring that out to the surface. And what if you had 10 of those? What would the situation be?
How can you make this experience better? How can you make the deliverable better for them? And what does that look like for you to deliver?
If, for example, if a role is something that you need help with and you have to hire, I don't even overthink how much that would cost. I just know that if it's $45 ,000, that's the next deal that I'm working on. That's how it's going to be.
And if it's $45 ,000 to $65 ,000, am I scared to tell them it's $65 ,000? No, because I am able to back it up with so much conviction. And your delivery and your conviction and backing that up is going to reflect.
It doesn't have nothing to do with how much the market charges for it. I'm not saying to fake it till you make it, but they can feel the conviction and the way you speak. And that's how much you can charge.
Like you can charge a lot. Oh, I love that. Yes.
Back it up. Your tone of your voice when you're delivering to them is going to play a big part in how. what's your charge just from speaking with you right now like how charismatic you are your tone like you said and your confidence level and i feel like your clients is able to see it so they'd rather work with somebody who can deliver the result rather than you know, undercutting themselves a little bit and then getting the mediocre result.
Speaking of result, let's talk about that. Now you got a couple of clients. You're working on $40 ,000 deal.
That's fascinating. How do you even have time to manage this client versus that client? Like, are you using AI at all?
I'm guessing yes, but let's go over that. Yes. I have to tell you, I know that you were mentioning about confidence and conviction.
I am the most shy person. I'm very shy. Like, I'm like, I sweat, but you can't tell it.
Like one of my calls today was one of the first calls that I had to coach on one of the other jobs, the consulting daddy job. That was the very first time. That was one of those things that I fake it till you make it.
I definitely did that. I'm very shy. So if you are an introvert, if you're very, very shy, there's a stage for you.
If the stage is for you to actually like shine is when you are having a conversation with somebody and you're truly enjoying yourself, the confidence shows in you. It doesn't matter if you are. scared, terrified, if you're sweating bullets, try to enjoy yourself and then the conviction will come out.
That's what I can say because I'm one of those people that I'm so nervous, but truly fall in love with the clients that you're talking to. Try to get to know them. Generally be interested in their business, in their life even, without being too personal.
Once you get into the conversation with somebody, you feel comfortable talking to them, it will bring out the best in you. especially in the tone of your voice. It is all about chit -chat.
That is the most important thing. So I forgot what your question was. What was my question?
I don't know.
See, maybe if I was going through an interview like that and then I'm talking to them about something else, then they forgot, right? They forgot that they're thinking about the other person that they were going to hire because then they got into the conversation with me. All of a sudden, they want to talk to me more, right?
And you put them into your Slack already and they're like, hey, you're... already working with me exactly i don't know if you ever read the or even watched the book okay sorry you read the book or watched the movie called secret i don't know if you ever heard of that before it's pretty much talking about you're attracting you know the future that's what it's talking about you're manifesting the future you're manifesting your goal i somewhat believe in that so i'm like you're definitely acting on it oh i do your future pays it you give them that experience you lead them into that experience without them knowing it and that's not you misleading them at the end of the day They're already comfortable talking to me, messaging me in the middle of the night and they have something.
I can respond to them immediately. They're already in my world. They know they are experiencing what it's like to work with Mar rather than somebody else.
So like, hey, can we schedule a call? And that doesn't mean give them access to you all the time. They are already experiencing what it's like to work with you.
The way I think about it is like. . When they're inside, they're like, they're going to look around, right?
Get familiarized. You're in your home. You know, make them feel comfortable in your home.
That was my thing. And again, that wasn't, I wanted that job. And I was like, how can I do this?
I woke up in the middle of like 1 a .m. I said, I'm going to create their Slack channel. And I didn't plan for me to invite them into Slack.
They asked me. it wasn't so weird um yes and it was just like oh imagine if i didn't create their channel am i going to create the channel in front of them no and i was just like that was so wow that's that's after the interview correct that's not before the interview during the interview during before i close the deal during the interview Interesting.
But then you woke up in the 1am and then create the Slack channel. Is that what you said? Yeah, that was the day before when I was like messaging.
I'm like, I woke up in the middle of the night. I was just like, I don't know. I'm just going to do it.
I know it's so bizarre. Yeah, because we were communicating. It was like falling asleep.
And I got up, I got excited. And I went here and created their channel. I didn't have my own personal Slack.
I just built it. I put my label and my name right there. I was like, I'm going to make it happen.
I'm going to close this deal. That's what I did. I love them in your world.
I guess that's what I would say. I love that. Yeah, there's something for sure.
Somebody's helping you out with that. I'm Christian. So I'm like, oh, I feel like that's just, you know, you're getting a lot of help.
You know, there's like inspiration once in a while. those instinct and i'm like you gotta listen to those because it really matters and you listen to it and you got the deal i manifested it yeah you're right though i manifested it without actually thinking i'm manifesting it yes yes for sure and now let's talk about how you actually manage to deliver the best result for those clients like you have your experience 10 plus years correct in the marketing industry in sales it was sales marketing has only been a year 10 years in sales and one year in marketing.
One year in marketing, 10 years in sales. How are you planning to deliver the best result for your clients? Obsession.
My philosophy is I fall in love with every single client of mine and there has becomes natural and really communication with clients. If I need to hop on a call every single week with them, having that open communication will play a huge part in delivering that success. You could be really, really good, but if you're not communicating with your client exactly how they want it done.
If say, for example, they hired you because you talk. a big talk but then it starts like faltering and that's a really great question by the way because you have to keep that momentum you have to you have to keep delivering that and how you keep your clients confident in your ability to deliver is communication and by communication not necessarily hey what do you want me to do next no you lead the conversation you take the lead in every conversation yes you're going to listen to them at the end of the day You're going to deliver what they want and what they need.
But you always lead the conversation where you're making a suggestion without them asking you for anything. For me, it's always under promise and over deliver. The way you just frame the conversation, I would say, if you say, yes, I'll do that.
Yes, I'll do that. And you're like becoming a yes man. You are going to foster a client that is number one, not going to respect you.
And number two, you're just an order taker. And so the best way to do that is you lead a conversation, be realistic with what you can deliver and then over deliver. That's my experience has been.
And honestly, the more you say no to clients, the more they respect you. And I'm not saying, no, I don't want to do that. I'm just saying that.
they will push you. Like a three -year -old, they will push your boundaries. I know, yeah.
Let's talk about those boundaries a little bit. Do you tell them, hey, these are my work hours and stuff like that? Because I know you want to over -deliver and then give the best result.
But based on my experience with the clients I've worked with, they just reach out in random times. How do you set that expectation? You have to set these expectations at the very first time at what you call an onboarding, right?
You want to make sure, especially if you have a team. You want to make sure that we will respond to you within 24 hours or we will respond to you by 5 p .m. Australian time or Eastern time.
You set those boundaries right from the get -go and you follow them yourself. Even if you want to over -deliver and you want to wake up in the middle of the night, understanding that there's boundaries, they will respect you. If you don't set the boundaries right from the get -go, They will walk all over you.
And it's not a reflection of them. It's a reflection of the way you set up the conversation and the boundaries right from the get -go. Let's say, for example, clients in the past where I would respond to them at any time of the day.
Honestly, they're going to not respect you, number one. It's not going to be a good relationship for you if you do that. So set the boundaries, exceed if you want to work part -time.
If you want to work more after hours, then you don't need to communicate with them. Do those work. It doesn't have to be client -facing.
Gotcha. Gotcha. All right, Jen, let's talk about your ultimate goal and also the revenue goal.
I want to build an agency, like a small agency where I want to teach business owners how to do their own marketing. Because coming from my end, I see a lot of business owners who pay a lot of money every single month for agencies. don't understand their marketing and still at the end of the day at the end of their say contract if it's a six months or 12 months and they don't have any understanding of the marketing of how it's going in the back end they will still end up number one frustrated number two spending so much money on agency cost and number three without understanding it they can't execute it and when you're not understanding the process you will forever be So what I want to do is I want to help business owners actually really understand what's happening because it's simple.
It's very, very simple. I used to not know anything about this. I was in sales.
And for me, for as long as I sold, I'm good. But business owners I'm finding is that they think it's complicated. So I want to simplify that for them and have their own in -house marketing.
Not just that, but understand it themselves. So they know how to, number one, hire in -house marketing without depending on other agencies and scale it on their own. So teaching business owners, especially I love my best niche that I liked helping are like dental practices, healthcare practices.
I tell you, they're overworked. And when they're overworked, they rely on a lot of people, a lot of like outside outsource their marketing. And they still end up having to work more because then they don't understand the marketing.
But when they do understand the marketing, I see their face because I get on calls with them every single week, even though I am used to doing a done for you. But when they understand how marketing is, their face is like, that's my high. It's when I see that they're finally understanding.
They see you can do this. That's my high. My biggest goal is to...
You know, all of us probably want a lot, $100 ,000 a month, $500 ,000 a month. But the biggest goal for me is to be able to have that flexibility of time. Yes, I can probably be making $100 ,000 a month.
or $500 ,000 a month, but then I'm not sleeping because my mind constantly doesn't sleep. But I also understanding that in the beginning, you have to go through these phases. So that's my goal.
I want to teach business owners to understand their own marketing and own their acquisition. I love that. Wow.
Yes. The small agency that you talked about. And then we all want 100K, 500K.
And it sounds like... eventually you'll outsource and train people so they can deliver as much how you can deliver right now correct yes the other aspect of that is i'm getting a lot of messages from members of our community actually asking about hey how do you learn this so that was the other part is as i'm building this i want to teach other like normal ordinary people like me To become the fractional marketer for these business owners to become like an in -house marketing.
Because a lot of times when business owners hire agencies, they don't get the attention that they want. But if they have their own fractional, you know, in -house marketing, they can move fast. They can have more creatives in a timely manner.
They can have more videos. They can adjust their ads without spending so much money. Because the biggest thing is outsourcing their story to somebody else.
It's misaligned. It's very hard for them as business. owners to be like, oh, that doesn't reflect my story.
If they have their own marketers, if I could train people that could become their marketers, build their system, own their system, and actually, and that system stays within the business. It doesn't go with the agency. It doesn't go with the marketer.
The story stays in there. They own it. They have ownership of that.
Now, those business owners are not going to be forever being able to handle their own marketing. You can't be a doctor and then somebody doing marketing. You need somebody to hire that, somebody that you can trust and somebody that.
could actually help you deliver at speed because to me, marketing is speed. And so that's why I wanted to help a lot of ordinary person like me that can just build a system for business owners. It doesn't matter what the niche is.
It can be like law practices or like tradesmen, anything. There's a room for everybody. So this is a completely change of subject, but I was just curious about your previous social media account that you mentioned before, right?
1 ,000 subscriber on YouTube and 12 ,000 on Instagram or TikTok? Instagram. what was that account before remind me like instagram growth to like how to get followers and things like that i didn't know what to do with it i was getting followers i was getting messaging but i had no bridge to monetize that.
I don't know what to go with this. This was like from three years ago. I started doing that.
I made some money in the beginning. I would say that it's easy to get lost on the internet to be like, yes, I'm getting followers. And that's why I wanted to test out for any of you who's starting from zero.
I started from zero. I'm not even posting or anything like that. When you followed me, you were like my second follower.
I don't use my other social media that have followers. I got five followers overnight. I was so excited.
That was like the biggest win. Before I even got followers, I'm already making money. So number one, make you better, get you better.
Because I would never be feeling confident in these interviews if I didn't have the reps. If I didn't have those experiences. That's why when looking for a job, get the reps.
Get for anything. Get heard. Yes.
And I'll put your YouTube in the description as a collab so people can follow your journey too. Because you got so much. to share when it comes to your experience and i love your youtube channel i listen to them like okay that's a great information right there so yeah continue please don't stop content content is one of the best roi in the future you know you're right and but i'm so detached with all this now but i put i just say for example those are the videos that like you said we i record those in like middle of the night that's why i'm like oh my gosh but it doesn't matter what matters is the value that we deliver right yes that's so true i know i need to do that more especially for instagram i'm like i'll shoot i haven't posted The meta called me.
You know, I think I learned this from you. Who's doing this? Like I just clip it with Blotator.
No, actually Opus. I just clip all of those videos. I'm getting followers and all of those.
Yeah, use Blotator. Blotator is awesome. I know I need to do it more, but I'm just like, it's just a mindset thing.
You know, I've just got a dedicated day to actually record and I still go through those. After eight years of being in content creation world. I am so happy that people got to hear your story because there were a lot of valuable information in this video.
And for those of them who's following you and then listen until the end of this right now, if they actually take action, they'll get some results. In my opinion, it might take time depending on what skills that you have and just keep that in mind. I've been in sales for 10 plus years.
Mar also has been in sales for 10 plus years. So for us, when we jump on a call, it's a little bit, I don't want to say easy, but we have more advantage when it comes to closing the deal. And for those of them who hasn't been in sales, that's a skill that they can learn.
It is a very possible skill that anybody can learn, in my opinion. And you just prove that even though you didn't have a testimonial, you can still get the client. Fascinating.
I love it. Mar, is there anything last that you want to share? I would say the best thing for you to gain that momentum is get the first win.
Even if it's just sending your first proposal, that's a win. Celebrate that. Yes.
Listen to her. That's awesome. Thank you so much for coming again.
And we'll see you again. I appreciate that. Thank you so much.
The Hook
The bait, then the rug-pull.
Mar had zero testimonials, zero portfolio work, and a social following that had never made her a cent. Two weeks after she started sending Upwork proposals she'd signed an $8,000 monthly retainer, and by the time this interview aired, a second deal worth $25,000.
