2:14:57Jack Neel · Interview
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July 22nd 2025The argument in one line.
The modern collapse in male testosterone and sperm count is primarily chemical, driven by phthalates and processed food, and reversing it requires reclaiming fundamentals that labs and biohackers consistently undervalue: fiber, vigorous exercise, and sleep.
Read if. Skip if.
READ IF YOU ARE…
- A man under 40 experiencing low energy, brain fog, or difficulty building muscle despite consistent training.
- Someone trying to conceive who wants to understand the real environmental and lifestyle variables that damage sperm and egg quality.
- A supplement user who wants to know which products have clinical evidence and which are regulatory grey zones.
- Anyone familiar with Dr. Rhonda Patrick who wants her latest thinking on creatine dosing, sauna protocols, and cardiac fitness in a single long-form session.
- A health-curious listener who wants microplastic anxiety translated into concrete, ranked actions.
SKIP IF…
- You are looking for novel biohacking angles; this episode defends fundamentals against trends rather than introducing new ones.
- You have already done a deep read on Patrick's published work; the interview covers her core frameworks at introductory-to-intermediate depth.
The full version, fast.
Sperm counts and testosterone are measurably lower than 50 years ago, and the primary culprits are phthalates, obesity, poor sleep, and refined sugar. Dr. Patrick argues the antidote is not an exotic supplement stack but unglamorous fundamentals: 25-30g of dietary fiber daily, vigorous exercise over chronic low-intensity cardio, and filling genuine deficiency gaps in omega-3, vitamin D, and magnesium. Her most specific and underreported finding: 5g of creatine saturates muscle but produces no meaningful brain spillover. Ten grams is the threshold where cognitive benefits become measurable, and 20-25g is warranted during sleep deprivation or travel.
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00:00hostJack Neel
01:09guestDr. Rhonda Patrick
Where the time goes.
00:00 – 01:15
01 · Intro and credentials
Cinematic open; Dr. Patrick framed as the scientist Joe Rogan and Huberman call for longevity questions
01:15 – 03:50
02 · Masculinity in decline
50% sperm count drop, 30% testosterone drop vs 50 years ago; grip strength collapse; biological framing of masculinity
03:50 – 09:15
03 · Microplastics and testosterone
100% of male semen samples contain microplastics; phthalates and BPA as EDCs; 20% lower testosterone in highest-phthalate men
09:15 – 14:30
04 · Fetal exposure and testosterone production
Phthalates cross placenta affecting fetal development; hypospadia; undescended testicles; obesity and heat exposure
14:30 – 17:00
05 · TRT and lux maxing risk
Fertility as Russian roulette; why temporary is not always true; dose and duration variables
17:00 – 22:10
06 · Lifestyle testosterone drivers
Sleep deprivation (5hr/week = -15% T); 75g sugar = -25% T within hours; habits set new baselines
23:15 – 34:15
07 · Grip strength, muscle mass, and mortality
70% higher all-cause mortality in lowest grip strength; physical labor decline; exercise snacks; 70-80% lower mortality with high muscle mass
36:30 – 43:40
08 · Cancer in younger people
Obesity accounts for 40% of all new US cancer diagnoses; inflammation, growth factors, and immune suppression driving earlier cancer onset
43:40 – 50:00
09 · Fiber and cancer prevention
95% of Americans fall short of fiber target; insoluble fiber moves toxins; fermentable fiber produces cytotoxic T lymphocytes; fiber blocks microplastic absorption
50:00 – 52:15
10 · Fruit, pesticides, and phytochemicals
Whole fruit sugar behaves differently due to food matrix; blueberries top pick; do not mix blueberries with bananas
52:15 – 58:10
11 · Backstory and micronutrient gaps
70% vitamin D deficient; 90% omega-3 deficient; 50% magnesium deficient; father's Parkinson's stabilized on high-dose omega-3
58:10 – 1:01:30
12 · Supplement quality and storage
Omega-3 must be refrigerated; ConsumerLab for third-party testing; most supplements unregulated and misdosed; peptides especially high-risk
1:01:30 – 1:08:30
13 · Everyday items poisoning you
Water, food, air; reverse osmosis filter; no hot food in plastic; to-go coffee in plastic-lined cups; HEPA filters for indoor air
1:08:30 – 1:13:05
14 · Water and plastic in detail
RO is gold standard; aluminum cans are plastic-lined; glass bottles have larger less-absorbable particles; nanoplastics cross gut barrier
1:13:05 – 1:19:55
15 · Phones and sperm
Swiss study: 20x daily phone use = 20% lower sperm count; 2G was the worst era; 5G is more efficient and less damaging; airplane mode at night is prudent
1:19:55 – 1:31:45
16 · Weed, tobacco, black plastic, recycled plastic
Cannabis affects sperm morphology; black plastic contains brominated flame retardants from recycled electronics; flimsy recycled plastic leaches most
1:31:45 – 1:39:45
17 · How habits and microplastics stack
Microplastics bioaccumulate with no excretion; BPA chemicals cycle out through urine; fiber is primary defense against absorption; resilience mindset
1:39:45 – 1:46:10
18 · Raw milk, gut health, and allergies
Probiotics from raw milk can improve gut tolerance; oral allergy syndrome is gut-linked; fiber is about immune function and toxin protection
1:46:10 – 1:50:15
19 · Foods that naturally boost testosterone
Zinc (oysters) can double T in deficient men; vitamin D; magnesium from dark greens; saturated fat as cholesterol precursor; low-fat diets were a lie
1:50:15 – 1:54:05
20 · Food vs exercise split
Exercise is king (~60% vs ~40% food); 500 genes change in one workout; exercise forgives poor sleep; it is personal hygiene, not optional
1:54:05 – 1:56:40
21 · Fasted exercise
Fasted aerobic improves fat burn and mitochondrial adaptation; weight training fasted takes performance hit; goal-dependent
1:56:40 – 2:00:45
22 · 45-minute heart reversal protocol
Ben Levine UT Southwest study: 50-year-olds reversed heart aging 20 years in 2 years; 30 min aerobic 5x/week + Norwegian 4x4 HIIT 1-2x/week + resistance training 2x/week
2:00:45 – 2:06:00
23 · Sauna for longevity
4-7x/week: 63% lower sudden cardiac death, 50% lower CV mortality, 40% lower all-cause, 66% lower dementia; additive with exercise; sperm hit is reversible
2:06:00 – 2:11:15
24 · What big podcasters ask
Sauna, cold exposure, carnivore long-term, Brian Johnson diet; balanced diet with animal protein beats strict elimination
2:11:15 – 2:16:00
25 · Women and iron deficiency
Iron is top female-specific deficiency driven by menstruation; men should not supplement iron without testing (free iron is neurotoxic)
2:16:00 – 2:26:00
26 · Multivitamins are not placebos
COSMO studies: Centrum Silver for 3 years lowered global brain aging 2.1 years and episodic aging 4.9 years; epigenetic aging slowed 5.7 months over 2 years
2:26:00 – 2:31:45
27 · Creatine for the brain
5g saturates muscle; 10g produces brain spillover; 20-25g for sleep-deprived or travel days; cognitive tests improve in stressed populations
2:31:45 – 2:36:30
28 · Placebo and spirituality
Placebo biologically real; nocebo equally real with genetic correlates; spirituality reconnected through parenthood and wonder at mitochondrial complexity
2:36:30 – 2:40:05
29 · Fears for the next 10 years
EDC effects on fetal development; screens as the new smoking; social comparison and empathy erosion; optimism about human resilience
2:40:05 – 2:44:55
30 · Intergenerational infertility risk
Animal studies show phthalate effects transmit generationally via epigenetic changes; obese fathers affect daughters metabolically; IVF risks
2:44:55 – 2:48:50
31 · Fertility protocol
Start 1 year before conceiving: weight loss, exercise, prenatal vitamins, no alcohol, RO water, no hot food in plastic, receipts with gloves; zinc + Ubiquinol + NAD for men
2:48:50 – 2:53:00
32 · Nocebo effect and closing
Pair bad news with actionable positives; best advice: diverse diet + exercise + sleep; worst advice: take SSRIs for stress-induced gut pain
2:53:00 – 3:02:33
33 · Where to find the guest
Found My Fitness YouTube/podcast; recommended episodes: creatine with Dr. Darren Candow; cardiac aging with Dr. Ben Levine
Lines worth screenshotting.
- Sperm counts are 50% lower than 50 years ago, and the most powerful driver is phthalates in everyday plastics, not lifestyle choices men are typically blamed for.
- Men with the highest phthalate levels have 20% lower testosterone than men with the lowest, and you are exposed through food packaging, shampoo, and store receipts.
- 5 grams of creatine is enough for muscles but does not meaningfully reach the brain; 10 grams is the spillover threshold where cognitive benefits become measurable.
- A single 75-gram sugar bolus drops testosterone by 25% within hours. Do that every day and you establish a new, permanently lower baseline.
- Heating food in plastic increases plastic chemical leaching by 50-fold, so the real exposure problem is hot food in plastic containers, not the water bottle sitting in your bag.
- Forty percent of all new US cancer diagnoses are attributable to obesity, more than most people attribute to any single environmental toxin.
- Fiber is not just about digestion: soluble fiber feeds gut bacteria that produce cytotoxic T lymphocytes, immune cells that actively kill cancer cells.
- A 45-minute workout protocol done 5-6 times a week reversed the structural heart aging of 50-year-olds by 20 years in just 2 years in a randomized controlled trial.
- Sauna use 4-7 times a week is associated with a 66% lower risk of dementia, more statistically striking than most pharmaceutical interventions at that frequency.
- Microplastics bioaccumulate with no excretion pathway. Fiber is your only reliable defense against absorbing them in the first place.
- The brain contains 10-20 times more plastic particles than any other organ, likely because inhaled plastics bypass the blood-brain barrier entirely.
- Sleep deprivation for just one week drops testosterone in college-age men by 15%, making sleep the most underrated testosterone intervention.
- Multivitamins lowered global brain aging by 2.1 years and episodic memory aging by 4.9 years in three large RCTs using the cheap Centrum Silver, not premium stacks.
- Exercise changes approximately 500 genes in a single workout and forgives even poor sleep in terms of all-cause mortality outcomes.
- 95% of Americans do not meet the basic fiber intake recommendation of 14 grams per 1,000 calories consumed.
- Blueberries eaten daily improve processing speed and memory in RCTs, but mixing them with bananas destroys the polyphenols responsible for the effect.
Your body can fight back, but only if you give it what it needs.
WHAT TO LEARN
The environmental assault on male biology is real and measurable, but the most powerful interventions are not exotic biohacks; they are the fundamentals most people are skipping.
02Masculinity in decline
- Sperm counts and testosterone are measurably lower at population level today, not just in unhealthy outliers.
- Grip strength has declined in modern men because physical labor has been engineered out of daily life, not because of genetics.
03Microplastics and testosterone
- 100% of tested semen samples contain microplastics; the plastics disrupt sperm morphology and motility, and the phthalate chemicals they carry suppress testosterone production.
- Men with the highest phthalate levels have 20% lower testosterone, and phthalates are in virtually all plastic food packaging, grooming products, and thermal receipts.
06Lifestyle testosterone drivers
- A single week of five-hour nights drops testosterone by 15% in young men, making sleep one of the most underutilized hormonal interventions available.
- A 75-gram refined sugar load drops testosterone by 25% within hours; repeat daily and that depressed level becomes the new baseline.
07Grip strength, muscle mass, and mortality
- People with the lowest grip strength have 70% higher all-cause mortality than those with the highest, making muscle strength a leading indicator of longevity and independence.
- Ten body-weight squats every 45 minutes throughout a workday outperforms a 30-minute walk for glucose regulation because more vigorous stress produces stronger metabolic adaptations.
08Cancer in younger people
- Forty percent of all new US cancer diagnoses are attributed to obesity, not genetics or environmental toxins, and that means the condition is diet-and-exercise responsive.
- Obesity creates a perfect storm for cancer: it initiates DNA damage through inflammation, simultaneously provides growth factors that help tumors survive, and suppresses the immune cells that would otherwise kill them.
09Fiber and cancer prevention
- Ninety-five percent of Americans fall short of the basic fiber target, but fiber does far more than regulate digestion: soluble fiber feeds bacteria that produce immune cells capable of killing cancer cells.
- Fiber physically blocks microplastic and nanoplastic absorption at the gut wall, making it one of the most practical available defenses against systemic plastic accumulation.
- Broccoli-eating is associated with lower colon cancer rates even in people who regularly eat charred meat, because sulforaphane activates detox enzymes that process carcinogens before they damage colon cells.
13Everyday items poisoning you
- Heating food in plastic increases chemical leaching by 50-fold; the real exposure driver is hot food in plastic containers, not the water bottle in your bag.
- HEPA air filters reduce microplastic inhalation from plastics present in particulate matter from tires, carpet, and synthetic clothing; breathing plastics in is a direct pathway to the brain that bypasses the blood-brain barrier.
2245-minute heart reversal protocol
- The Ben Levine cardiac reversal protocol reversed the structural aging of 50-year-old hearts by 20 years in 2 years: 30 min aerobic 5 days per week, Norwegian 4x4 HIIT once or twice weekly, resistance training twice weekly.
- The heart shrinks and stiffens with age if not exercised; this structural change is reversible, but requires consistent vigorous exercise, not low-intensity walking, to produce meaningful adaptation.
23Sauna for longevity
- Sauna use 4-7 times a week is associated with a 66% lower risk of dementia, 50% lower cardiovascular mortality, and 40% lower all-cause mortality, additive on top of exercise.
- The sperm count reduction from sauna use is fully reversible within 2-3 months of stopping, relevant only if actively trying to conceive.
26Multivitamins are not placebos
- Standard multivitamins taken for 3 years reduced global brain aging by 2.1 years and episodic memory aging by 4.9 years in three large RCTs; the mechanism is filling micronutrient gaps most people carry without knowing it.
- The same intervention slowed epigenetic aging by 5.7 months over 2 years, and that rate compounds with consistent long-term use.
27Creatine for the brain
- Five grams of creatine per day saturates muscle tissue but does not produce meaningful brain spillover; 10 grams is the documented threshold where creatine levels measurably increase in the brain.
- In sleep-deprived individuals given 20-25 grams of creatine, cognitive performance exceeded pre-deprivation baseline, suggesting creatine can temporarily compensate for sleep deficit.
31Fertility protocol
- A year-long pre-conception protocol gives sperm and eggs the best epigenetic starting point: weight loss, exercise, prenatal vitamins, eliminating alcohol, reducing plastic exposure, and adding zinc and Ubiquinol for men.
- Phthalate exposure during fetal development can disrupt testosterone-dependent sexual development before a child is born, making the mother's pre-pregnancy environment as consequential as the child's own future choices.
Terms worth knowing.
- Phthalates
- Plasticizing chemicals in food packaging, grooming products, and thermal receipts that act as endocrine disruptors, mimicking or blocking hormones including testosterone. Excreted through urine within hours but constant re-exposure maintains elevated body levels.
- Endocrine disrupting chemicals (EDCs)
- Synthetic compounds that interfere with hormonal signaling by mimicking hormones, blocking receptor binding, or suppressing hormone production. BPA and phthalates are the most studied examples.
- Sulforaphane
- A compound derived from glucoraphanin in cruciferous vegetables. Activates the NRF2 detoxification pathway, increasing the body's ability to excrete benzene, BPA, and heterocyclic amines. Broccoli sprouts contain 100x more precursor than broccoli.
- Norwegian 4x4
- A high-intensity interval training protocol: 4 minutes of maximal sustainable effort followed by 3 minutes of rest, repeated 4 times. Used in the Ben Levine cardiac aging reversal study to achieve superior VO2 max and cardiovascular structure improvements.
- Fermentable fiber
- A type of dietary fiber in berry skins, mushrooms, oats, onions, and artichokes that is fermented by gut bacteria. Unlike insoluble fiber, fermentable fiber feeds microbiome bacteria that produce short-chain fatty acids and strengthen the gut barrier against toxin absorption.
- Short-chain fatty acids (SCFAs)
- Signaling molecules including butyrate, acetate, and propionate produced when gut bacteria ferment soluble fiber. They communicate with immune cells throughout the body, promoting cancer-killing cytotoxic T lymphocytes.
- BDNF
- Brain-Derived Neurotrophic Factor. A protein that promotes new neuron growth in the hippocampus and supports neuroplasticity. Elevated by both vigorous exercise and polyphenols in blueberries; declines with age and sedentary behavior.
- NRF2 pathway
- A master genetic switch that activates phase-2 detoxification enzymes in response to plant compounds like sulforaphane and exercise-induced stress. These enzymes help the body excrete carcinogens, benzene, BPA, and heterocyclic amines.
- Nanoplastics
- Plastic particles smaller than microplastics, capable of crossing the gut epithelial barrier into circulation and crossing the blood-brain barrier. Their small size makes them more biologically available and harder to filter.
- COSMO studies
- A series of large randomized controlled trials examining multivitamin supplementation on cognitive and biological aging. Found that standard multivitamins reduced global brain aging by 2.1 years, episodic memory aging by 4.9 years, and epigenetic aging by 5.7 months.
- Epigenetic aging
- A biological clock measured by methylation patterns on DNA that reflects cumulative effects of diet, stress, and environmental exposures on how genes are expressed. Partially reversible through diet, exercise, and supplementation.
- Hypospadia
- A birth defect where the urethral opening is positioned further back than normal on the penis, linked to in-utero phthalate exposure disrupting testosterone-dependent sexual development. Associated with reduced fertility in adulthood.
- Grip strength
- A clinically validated proxy for overall muscle strength and functional independence. People with the lowest grip strength have 70% higher all-cause mortality, predictive enough to be used as a mortality biomarker in large population studies.
- Exercise snack
- A short bout of vigorous movement inserted throughout the workday. Studies show 10 body-weight squats every 45 minutes outperforms a 30-minute walk for glucose regulation.
Things they pointed at.
1:59:40linkBen Levine cardiac aging reversal study (UT Southwest)
2:43:50linkDr. Darren Candow, University of Regina - creatine brain research
2:30:00linkCOSMO studies (multivitamin/brain aging RCTs)
Lines you could clip.
00:06
“If we compare men fifty years ago to men now, they have 50% lower sperm count.”
01:30
“One hundred percent of the semen samples from the men had microplastics in them.”
24:40
“Once you get up to ten grams, you start to get spillover into the brain.”
1:02:48
“Exercise is the king. It forgives a lot, even poor sleep.”
1:08:00
“You are brushing your teeth every day and not exercising. Think about that.”
18:02
“Sauna use four to seven times a week is associated with a fifty percent lower cardiovascular mortality and sixty six percent lower chance of dementia.”
36:30
“Forty percent of all new cancer diagnoses in The United States each year are attributed to obesity.”
Where the conversation goes.
00:00 – 33:20denseMale fertility and testosterone decline
03:50 – 1:39:45denseMicroplastics and environmental toxins
36:30 – 58:10denseCancer prevention via diet
58:10 – 2:36:30steadySupplement science
1:50:15 – 2:11:15denseExercise protocols and cardiac health
2:44:55 – 2:53:00steadyFertility protocol
2:36:30 – 2:44:55steadyTechnology, screens, and mental health
2:53:00 – 3:02:33sparseClosing and resources
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00:00Today's guest is an expert on nutrition, longevity, and preventing deadly diseases.
00:05If we compare men fifty years ago to men now, they have 50% lower sperm count. And they have up to 30 lower testosterone
00:13levels. Early in her research career, she discovered she carries a gene that triples her risk of Alzheimer's, sparking an obsession with how genetics, diet, and chemicals decide how fast we age and how soon we die.
00:25One hundred percent of the semen samples from the men had microplastics in them. They're in the kidneys.
00:32They're in liver. They're in the heart. They're in the brain.
00:34They're in testicles. They're everywhere. Now she's the go to scientist Joe Rogan, Huberman, and half of Silicon Valley call when they want to know what's actually going to make them live longer.
00:43Your body is really resilient. You just have to give it the right tools and do the right things to make it resilient. In this episode, we'll expose the chemicals quietly castrating American men, explore why testosterone and sperm counts are collapsing, collapsing, and investigate whether the modern world is genuinely poisoning us or the problem is the choices we make every single day.
01:02Do you fear that your grandkids will be infertile? I don't know that I necessarily fear that they're gonna be infertile, but I kind of do.
01:10Doctor Rhonda Patrick, welcome to the Jack Neal podcast. Nice to be here. Thank you so much.
01:15Yeah. It's great having you here. A good place to start, Rhonda, the data on Gen Z men is pretty terrifying.
01:27And before we get into what are the actual habits and factors causing the decline in young men's health, I want to understand some of the statistics. So biologically speaking, do you think we're raising the least masculine generation of men?
01:44Well, I mean, masculinity obviously encompasses a lot of things, psychological factors.
01:50If we're just looking at pure biology, if we're looking at hormones, testosterone, you know, we're looking at fertility, sperm production, I would say those endpoints do not look good.
02:03So if we compare men fifty years ago to men now, generally, on average, they have 50% lower sperm count than men fifty years ago, and they have up to 30% lower testosterone levels than men forty-fifty years ago.
02:21That, to me, is concerning. And like I said, I don't know that that's the definition of masculinity, but certainly when it comes to biology, it's an important factor.
02:32And I guess on the sperm count portion, you said sperm counts are down 50% over the last fifty years. In 2024, researchers, they were studying dogs and they found microplastics in a 100% of the testicles that they tested.
02:51Then they thought, well, if it's in dogs, it's probably in men as well. Did they find microplastics in men's testicles?
02:59There have been a couple of studies. One study out of China in 2024 that sampled, I think it was around 40 men.
03:09And one hundred percent of the semen samples from the men had microplastics in them.
03:17There was another study that was a little bit smaller in The US, and that was biopsies of of testicles. For whatever reason, men were going in and getting a biopsy, and one hundred percent of those samples of the testicles also had microplastics in them.
03:34Microplastics are making their way to reproductive organs, they're making their way, they're being incorporated into sperm and semen, and they're affecting the structure, the function, the number of sperm in men.
03:50So it is a bit of a problem. I guess just gut instinct when you hear there's microplastics in men's semen is like, that's probably not good.
04:00But, like, why is it actually bad? So
04:05like I mentioned, um, microplastics themselves are disrupting, you know, the the function of sperm.
04:11They're disrupting the shape of them. I mean, if you can imagine a tiny tiny little plastic fragment, it's probably not gonna be a good thing for what's called the morphology, the shape of the sperm, the motility, its able ability ability to move, which you need for a sperm to meet an egg, right?
04:29You need to be able to move a long distance and do it well. It also isn't good for making sperm. So the plastics themselves are disrupting sperm function, disrupting sperm production, but the chemicals that are in those microplastics are probably what I think is even more concerning when it comes to affecting sperm.
04:50So these are chemicals that many people have probably heard of, for example, bisphenols, bisphenol A, B, P, A, or the replacement. I do quote because you'll see oftentimes different products marketed as BPA free.
05:05And you might think, oh, this is healthier. Turns out, it's just replaced with another type of bisphenol, BPS, which is as dangerous, if not more, than BPA.
05:16Another very dangerous plastic chemical is phthalates, p h t h, you know, so l a t e s, phthalates.
05:24These chemicals are what are known as endocrine disrupting chemicals, EDCs. Endocrine disrupting chemicals, sometimes they're called endocrine disrupting hormones. They are disrupting hormones, including testosterone, by a variety of ways.
05:39One, they can mimic hormones. Two, they can disrupt the ability of hormones to function. So hormones have to bind to receptors, and they will block that from happening.
05:51And three, they can actually disrupt the actual production of the hormones. So they can do any or all of these. And what happens is things like BPA and phthalates are in everything, and we can talk about this, from our water to our food to the air we breathe, everything.
06:08And when they make their way into things like semen and other organs, they are disrupting testosterone.
06:16There's studies showing, for example, men with the highest levels of phthalates.
06:21So phthalates are something that you'll find in foods that have been packaged in plastic. They're found in just our personal hygiene products, everything from shaving cream, lotions, shampoos, like all that stuff, Okay? So men that have the highest level of phthalates have 20% lower testosterone level than men with the lowest level of phthalates.
06:43And then BPA also has been shown to affect sperm. And when I say testosterone, testosterone's very important to make sperm. Right?
06:50So when you lower testosterone, it's going to have the downstream effect of also lowering your sperm count, right? So these things are very related.
06:58And so I think those are two big problems when it comes to, your question was, how are microplastics disrupting sperm production?
07:07And it's the plastics themselves, and it's the chemicals that come along with them. And I guess,
07:12too, is it possible that men are passing microplastics to women through sex?
07:19Well, microplastics are in semen, and so, you know, that is getting obviously passed along to women. But there's no evidence that that's being, like, absorbed into women and getting into their circulation.
07:32And that's the real concern, is like when you're actually just ingesting them and it gets into your circulation and getting into other organs. What is happening though is that when the semen, you know, when the sperm is, you know, meeting an egg, like you have those plastic and those chemicals there, right?
07:48So it is disrupting, one, you you might not even get a fertile embryo, like all that. The whole process of reproduction has been shown to be impaired by microplastics.
07:58So it's not necessarily like the concern I have for women's exposure to them. It's the food and everything and the water and the air we're breathing, all that stuff. That's their big concern.
08:08But there's no real study that has looked at, oh, what are the consequences? There's not a study that I've seen that's looked at that. And presumably,
08:16women would also have these microplastics. And perhaps they're I don't know the exact term, but like ovarian fluids, like, perhaps? They're in ovaries.
08:24The microplastics have been found in almost every single organ in the human body. From ovaries, they get to the placenta. They're in the kidneys, they're in liver, they're in the heart, they're in the brain, they're in testicles, they're everywhere.
08:37They're in all of our organs. It's a concern, and it's just a ubiquitous problem, because plastics are everywhere.
08:45And we don't see these microplastics and nanoplastics, we don't really see the chemicals, but they're there, and we're breathing them in, and we're ingesting them, and they're getting into our body, and they're sort of doing this insidious damage over time, right?
08:59That's something that you can't look in the mirror and see, but it's going on inside your body. And that's what makes it so insidious.
09:04It's, you know, it's accumulating with time, you don't really know what's happening. Outside of the plastics
09:10and the chemicals that they're passing along, are there other things destroying men's fertility right now? Random question really quick.
09:18Have you ever looked up if the shampoo you're using can disrupt your hormones? Because if you're like me, you probably didn't know that over 70% of men's grooming products have chemicals that can disrupt your endocrine system or your testosterone levels. Now I care a lot about my health, but I didn't really think any healthy products could make my hair look good, so that's why I was so glad I met the guys at Based.
09:41They gave me their Shower Duo shampoo conditioner, and it's made with plant based ingredients like peppermint or argan oil. So there's no sulfates, no hormone disruptors, nothing that's gonna mess with your body.
09:53And after using it for a while now, genuinely, my hair does feel way healthier, like clean and hydrated as opposed to dry and dull. And honestly, I think it looks better too. So if you've been using the same products forever without thinking twice about what's actually in them, make sure to check out Base Body Works.
10:13It's a plant based all natural men's grooming brand that actually performs. So if you wanna try it out for yourself, just use code Jack Neil at basebodyworks.com for 20% off your first order.
10:25Plus, you'll get a free toiletry bag when you buy your first set. So, again, that is basebodyworks.com code Jack Neil.
10:32But anyway, guys, back to the podcast. Are there other things destroying men's fertility right now?
10:40Yeah. I think there's a lot of things that have been evidence based to be shown to disrupt, you know, testosterone levels and also sperm production and sperm function.
10:54I would say, aside from endocrine disrupting plastic chemicals, there's also another category, which would be the insecticides, pesticides.
11:03These are things that are sprayed onto our crops so that we can grow large amounts of food to feed the big population of people. So the one that's probably the most associated with lowering sperm number is what's officially called Roundup glyphosate.
11:19So these organophosphates have been shown in multiple studies to be disrupting hormone production and sperm production as well.
11:28But aside from that so those are the endocrine disrupting chemicals obesity. Obesity is a big factor.
11:36And the numbers are quite staggering in terms of how much obesity rates have risen over the past fifty years, sixty years.
11:47And so if you look between 1990 and 2021, obesity rates in children and adolescents have dramatically grown. So in children, rates have risen by about forty percent since 1990.
12:01And for adolescents, in boys, it rose about forty six percent, and in girls, about fifty percent. So, you know, obesity is now a big problem starting in childhood, not in like your 40s or 50s, right?
12:16Obesity causes damage to sperm in many, many ways. One, it's creating hormones, things like estrogen that are disrupting sperm production, testosterone production, all these feedback loops that happen.
12:29Inflammation, oxidative stress, these things also damage sperm DNA. There's a lot of heat that's generated too in the scrotum area, and that's also a problem.
12:38So I would say obesity is another major, major player in this story in terms of sperm count and quality going down over the last few decades. And the other thing would also be, I do mention heat exposure.
12:52So doing I've talked a lot about the benefits of deliberate heat exposure, like using a sauna or a hot tub. That is something that does tank sperm number and also their structure and motility.
13:06Because in order to make sperm, you have to have a lower temperature in that scrotum area than it has to be lower than your core body temperature. And when that switch gets flipped, you start to basically, you know, not making as many sperm.
13:18But it is reversible. It goes back to normal once you take away the heat stress after about two to three months, and studies have shown that as well. Also, factor, I think, unfortunately, is exogenous anabolic steroid use.
13:32You know, so people that are using exogenous testosterone, anabolic steroids, men that are using that, that also, as you I'm sure know, tanks your production of testosterone in the testes, your natural production, your endogenous production of it.
13:48It can be reversible. It's not always. So unfortunately, like some men that are using it, they may not ever have normal sperm production.
13:57Again, their sperm may not be as good quality. So while you might hear that it is a reversible phenomenon, it may not always be.
14:07And I think that's also a part of the story because, you know, younger people are using exogenous, you know, hormones and steroids. And so something to consider as well. So those are some of the factors, you know, that I think are playing a role.
14:20A big one really is the endocrine disrupting chemicals and the obesity. I think those are the two top things that are playing a role.
14:28That's interesting because, I mean, there's been a rise in I'm sure you've seen it online, this trend of lux maxing.
14:37And a big part of it that's being discussed is the usage of TRT and peptides. I've sat down with a few of these guys on the podcast and I asked them, are you currently infertile?
14:50And they're like, yes. And I'm like, do you have a problem with that? And they're just like, well, it's temporary.
14:55Is that accurate that it's just temporary until they get off of the dosages they're doing, or what's, like, the real science there? I think the real science is
15:04it could be temporary, but it's like it's like a Russian roulette. Are you gonna be the one that it's not?
15:11Also, like, what dose are you doing? How long are you doing it for? Like, there's a lot of factors that play into that it's temporary answer.
15:19And if you don't know all the factors that are important for it to just be temporary, like, maybe you only can be doing it for, like, a few months. If you do it I mean, there's and then what dose you're doing, right? So like, those things need to be part of the equation if you don't want it to be a permanent thing.
15:35And again, people are different. People respond to drugs differently.
15:40They respond to diet differently. They respond to vitamins differently. Right?
15:45So keep that in mind as well. Like, this this is you are taking a chance here with your future fertility if you are going to be doing this lux maxing, which I mean, don't do it.
15:56That's ridiculous, honestly. You know? Like, if you're a young guy first of all, if you're a young guy, your testosterone should be fine.
16:03It should be good. And there are things that you can do, and we can talk about that to to kind of help optimize that to the degree that's, like, normal. Like, why why do you have to start taking testosterone?
16:16Like, you wanna get cut? You wanna, like I I don't know. You know?
16:19It's it's it is there there could be a pretty significant trade off. And if you think just because you read online that it's temporary, again, it's not always.
16:29So are you going to be the person that it's temporary, are you going to be the one that's not temporary?
16:34We'll discuss later in this interview some of your remedies and recommendations for boosting testosterone with what we're given.
16:43But, yeah, it is really fascinating because their argument is we can't even reproduce to begin with unless we look good.
16:53And there's so many different chemical disruptors to make our testosterone low that we might as well go on peptides, TRT to look more masculine.
17:04I do want to ask, since the average 18 year old today has the testosterone of a 60 year old man in the 1980s, why do young men today have such low testosterone levels?
17:20And
17:21what are the stats there and maybe what are some of the things that don't apply to sperm count that apply to this? I do think the same things that are causing the sperm to go down are the same things causing testosterone to go down. In that, I think one of the major drivers is, in particular, I think it's the phthalates in these plastics that are being ingested.
17:41And I say that because, you know, there's even evidence that a pregnant woman, when she's pregnant and she's exposed to phthalates, whether it's from her lotions and creams or she's eating foods, almost all like, you go to the butcher and you get meat, and it's like plastics around it.
18:01Like, it's vacuum sealed, and you can't escape it. Like, it's everywhere. It's in your food.
18:05It's on top of our vegetables, you know. So know, women that have higher levels of those phthalates while they're pregnant, the phthalates are getting across the placenta, and they're going into the developing fetus and into the testes, and they're disrupting testosterone production early, early in development.
18:25And that's affecting the sexual development of men, so it's causing what's called hypospadia. Do you know what that is? Where like the urethra slit on a man's penis is like further back.
18:37So it's kind of like, it's not, it's basically not upfront enough. So it affects the ability of sperm to be able to be shot out and go, like, it's going to affect future fertility, basically.
18:49The other thing it's doing is it's causing undescended testicles, which is now pretty common in boys. That also affects fertility as well as testosterone production.
18:59What are just So basically, your testicles, know, undescended means they're not coming down, so one of them will kind of stay up.
19:07And when that happens, it's inside more, and so it's being exposed to a higher temperature instead of coming down where it's cooler. And so if that doesn't get corrected, and even if it does get corrected, there still could be some loss in testosterone production and fertility.
19:25So all this is to say that the phthalates and these plastic chemicals are affecting testosterone starting early in life.
19:33They continue. They continue on. And so men that are being exposed to it, I already cited this study, you know, these men with higher phthalate levels have 20% lower testosterone.
19:43And this is like a big wide raging, you know, an age rage study. Young men, old men, across the board. It's affecting everyone, you know, even young men.
19:52So that's another thing that I again, I think these plastic chemicals are really big you know, play a really big role in that. The other thing that also people underestimate is sleep.
20:04And I know a lot of young people, you know, I mean, they're night owls. They stay up. Want to work.
20:10They want to be efficient, productive. Maybe they party, all of the above. And so they're not getting at least seven hours of quality sleep per night, which is really the minimum of what you need.
20:20There was a study showing that young men, these were college students, that that got five hours of sleep for a week, their testosterone levels, like, dropped by, like, 15%, you know, after one week.
20:32So prioritizing sleep. Like, I think people are not getting enough sleep.
20:37That's also playing a role. Refined sugar and ultra processed foods is another thing that's playing a role in decreasing testosterone levels.
20:45So, again, this comes back to and it's all tangled in with the obesity equation. Right? Like, because when you're eating a lot of ultra processed foods and a lot of refined sugars, it leads to obesity.
20:54Right? So there was a study looking at young men given a really large bolus of of sugar, refined, like, added sugar, 75 grams. It's kinda like donut and a Coke or Big Mac and a Coke or something like that.
21:07A lot a lot of sugar. Right? But it it tanked their testosterone by, like, 20%, like, within a couple of hours.
21:14Really? Yeah. Just one dosage?
21:16One dose. Just one dose. No.
21:18It goes back up. But, like, Okay, you're eating sugar throughout the day, all day, every day, right? Like, it's going to start Adjust your baseline.
21:26Yeah. Right. That's going to be your new baseline.
21:28It's going to be a low you're to have lower testosterone levels, right? So I think that's another and I'm now rattling off things that are contributing. I think, again, a really big factor here is unfortunately the endocrine disrupting chemicals, and at the top of the list, phthalates and BPA.
21:42But, you know, there's the obesity equation also plays a role in testosterone. And then, you know, the sleep and the refined sugar are pretty big ones as well.
21:53And those are some of the main, I'd say, lifestyle factors that are, I think, playing a role in people having in men having lower testosterone.
22:02I've heard you talk about grip strength before. Like, what can you tell about a person by their grip strength?
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23:12But anyway, guys, back to the podcast.
23:18What can you tell about a person by their grip strength? Why is that such an important indicator?
23:25Yeah. I mean, so, I mean, testosterone's doing a lot it's a hormone in men, and it does a lot of things.
23:29And one of the things that it's important is in muscle muscle mass and muscle strength. Right? Grip strength is often a proxy for your overall muscle strength in other parts of the body as well.
23:42And interestingly, it's also used as a way to gauge whether or not, like, you're gonna have functional independence as you age.
23:51So you can do everyday activities without needing help, right? So it's an important marker of functional independence.
23:58And then also, some studies have looked at grip strength as a proxy for your overall mortality. In fact, there was one study, a large study that was done that showed people with the lowest grip strength had a seventy percent higher all cause mortality than people with a higher grip strength.
24:16So again, going back to that functional independence, overall muscle strength, the grip strength is used as a marker for your overall health status and even can predict, you know,
24:27somewhat, like, if you're gonna die early. Studies show that young men today have significantly weaker grip strength than the same age group did decades ago. Like, is this the statistically weakest generation of men today, and what are the stats on that?
24:46Yeah. It's an interesting question because, you know, decades ago, men were doing a lot more with their hands.
24:59You know? They were they were carrying things more.
25:02Right? So you're you're walking places. You're carrying groceries.
25:06Now we have grocery carts. Now we have Instacart. You don't even have to get off your couch.
25:10We used to carry men used to carry babies and kids before all these strollers. I mean, tools, water. You know, we used to do that.
25:17We used to practice that grip strength. Right? A lot of times carrying things, physical labor.
25:21I mean, if you look at if you look at the, I would say, private sector because the military, you're still doing a lot of physical type of labor. Right?
25:29But the private sector back in, like, the nineteen fifties, over 50% of jobs required manual physical labor, like you were physically doing things.
25:40Now, in 2026, it's like less than 20%. So we've created this environment for men and women that is it's basically facilitated our not having to get up and do any work, right?
25:56We sit in front of a screen, you know, we're at a computer, we're sitting down most of the day, we're not walking around. I mean, decades ago, men were walking to work.
26:05They were walking to the store. They were moving around all day. They were doing short bouts of what I call exercise snacks just naturally throughout their life.
26:15And they were carrying wood, they were doing farming, and doing things around the house, and so like they just were constantly moving. And we don't do that now. And I think now we have, like, we have to go to the gym to get that sort of physical activity that men used to get throughout the day.
26:33And if you're not going to the gym, which a large percentage of men and women don't, then you are gonna have a weaker grip strength. You're gonna have you're gonna have overall lower muscle mass, overall lower muscle strength, because you're not using your muscles.
26:44You have to use your muscles. And so you can recreate some of that.
26:48I mean, you should be doing resistance training at minimum twice, two to four times a week, things like deadlifts. Right? I mean, farmer carry, like, wanna do hangs.
26:59Like, you want to you want to work that grip strength. Like, you would be carrying something, right? Rucking.
27:04You want to also get your aerobic exercise. Like, you want to walk around, particularly after meals. I would say do exercise snacks.
27:10You get up and do some body weight squats. I mean, there's studies showing that you do 10 body weight squats every forty five minutes throughout a seven hour workday.
27:19And that's better at improving your glucose regulation than going on a thirty minute walk. So get up and do 10 body like, how easy is that?
27:27You know? Right. That's much easier than a walk.
27:29Why why is that? Because you're you're doing you're putting more stress.
27:34It's more of a vigorous type of exercise. And when that happens, you produce your body produces something called lactate. And lactate causes these transporters on your muscle to bring the glucose in better.
27:46That's one of the reasons why. So so doing something more like, doing a quick exercise snack, like a one minute, two minute, like, sprint up the stairs is better than going for a longer walk.
27:58And so that's, again, there's this whole vigorous exercise is really underappreciated in terms of its metabolic, not only metabolic benefits, particularly metabolic, but also brain, overall mortality.
28:12Like, there's so many things. And it's like you can be more efficient. You just have to like the whole thing is like exercise is good because you're stressing your body.
28:21And so the stronger the stressor, which is the case when you're doing something more vigorous, whether it's body weight squats, weighted squats, you know, versus walking, the adaptations that your body has to deal with that stress is what's the benefit, right?
28:35So your body is like, oh my gosh, this is stressful. I mean, my lungs are working hard, my heart's working hard, my muscles are working hard.
28:43I better get those things stronger so that the next time I see this kind of stress, I'm better at dealing with it, right? So those are the adaptations, and that's a very general way of explaining it, but the whole point is that it's like the stress is stronger, therefore the adaptations are better. And that's why when you go a little bit harder, you're gonna have a better effect.
29:02So I'm guessing you're not the biggest fan of, like, slow, long cardio in comparison to short bouts like a HIIT workout. I mean, walking is better than sitting. Right?
29:11But, like, the really low
29:14intensity kind of stuff like, if you're jogging, if you're doing that kind of cardio, I think that's considered more vigorous, like, because you're you're jogging. That's that is still, like, a pretty strong stress.
29:24It's the walking, the 10,000 steps. I'm like, okay.
29:28The 10,000 steps is better than no steps. It's better than sitting. Okay.
29:31I'll I'll say that. But if we're gonna, like, if we're gonna aim to achieve something, why don't we try to, like, go for the right thing? Right?
29:37I would say ten minutes of a vigorous intensity workout
29:41is better than 10,000 steps. Data data is clear. If you don't feel it, like, it's probably not working that well.
29:49It yeah. And you feel it after ten minutes of, like, a HIIT workout. You'll feel you'll feel great.
29:54You'll be smarter, and there's studies showing it too. Interesting. I mean, all this is to say that men, you know, fifty, sixty years ago, they were doing they were getting resistance training, like a low grade of it throughout the day, every day.
30:09Right? And so that's probably why their grip strength was stronger because now in order to have a grip strength, you have to work it.
30:16Like, you have to we've engineered this problem where we need to go to the gym. We need to do deadlifts. We need to do hang.
30:22Right? We need to hang. We need to, like, do pull ups, chin ups, whatever.
30:27Men didn't have to do that like fifty years ago. They were doing it. They were carrying stuff.
30:31They were doing it throughout the They literally didn't go to the gym. That's like a new modern invention. They didn't have to.
30:37They didn't have to go to the gym. Like, we we've now created this environment where we don't have to move.
30:43Like, we work from home. We can order our food that's delivered to us. I mean, you literally don't have to move.
30:49Like, you could prop I'm sure someone on YouTube's gonna do this experiment where they're like, I'm just gonna sit I'm I'm literally gonna be bed rest and just sit and, like, have everything just delivered to me because that's that's how life is now. We have we have made it where things are a lot easier, luxuries, whatever.
31:04But at the end of the day, we also have these new problems where we have to, like, go out and move because it's so important for our health. And then on the
31:14I've heard this study reference before. I can't remember if it's you that had said it, but it's something along the lines of the amount of skeletal muscle in someone's body is a good determinant for, like, all cause mortality.
31:25Is there something along those lines? Yeah. Muscle mass also is very important for looking at all cause mortality.
31:31Mass and strength, both. Right? And so, you know, there's some studies that that will show the more muscle mass you have.
31:38I mean, you could have up to an 80 70 to 80% lower all cause mortality. And and that really does have to do with protecting against frailty.
31:49Right? I mean, because when you once you are frail, it's like the start of the decline.
31:56And anyone that has an older grandparent or great grandparent or, you know, parent, you've probably seen that, where it's like one fall, and then it's just spiral down.
32:05Right? Spiral down. And so more muscle mass, you know, more muscle strength, you're going be less likely to fall.
32:11You're going be less you're going to be more independent. You're going to be less frail. And so you're gonna you're gonna, you know, be be more robust as you, you know, charge through the last decade of your life.
32:21So muscle mass is very important, and so is strength. And they do decline with age, you know, especially as you start to hit older age. Like, 65 really starts to accelerate.
32:31So the more you can bank into your muscle mass and strength earlier, the better because then you're gonna be pulling from it anyways.
32:37You might as well bank as much as you can so that you you know? And the easiest time to build it is, I I don't know, ages 16 to 30 or ages 16 to 25, I'm guessing. And it's actually pretty resilient, like how much you can hold the mass.
32:53I think they did a study, it was like they took athletes who had a physique and had them only work out once a week, and they were able to maintain it pretty well. So that age range, you do
33:04peak muscle mass is happening, and it is easier to gain muscle mass, and you can get away with more. So, yes, that is that's a true statement.
33:13But I don't want to I don't want to ignore the fact that you can you can still add muscle at any age Right.
33:21And even more strength. Like, there was a study in 90 year olds where you can actually add muscle strength better than muscle mass. The study in 90 year olds where they were doing resistance training, I don't remember how many times a week, but they were able to increase their strength by, like, 90%.
33:37And this was after just, like, a couple of weeks. So that's, like, I mean, incredible, right, for someone that's 90. It's never too late if you're listening to this show and you're, you know, in your twenties.
33:48Like, yeah, get after it. Like, this is the time. Like, this is like, it's it's gonna be the best and easiest right now.
33:55But but don't be discouraged. Like, as you hit 30, 35, 40, you can still do it, and I'm still gaining muscle mass and strength. And
34:03so As far as cancer, cancer in people 50 is rising every year.
34:10Colon cancer in young men, breast cancer in young women. Why would we be getting cancer younger now than before?
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35:08Again, that's jagnell.com backslash high level if you want to run your entire business with one AI platform. But anyway, guys, back to the podcast.
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36:26But anyway, back to the podcast. Why would we be getting cancer younger now than before?
36:34Yes. Cancer, boys, it's scary.
36:37Like, it's the one it's the it's the it's the disease that you really want to try and prevent as much as you can, because once you have it, because it's usually caught later, you don't know you have it. It's one of those things where they're just growing inside of you.
36:52So this cancer at younger age I have a lot of ideas why I think cancer is happening, you know, earlier and in younger people.
37:04And I think they're pretty evidence based. I'm going to go back to the obesity, answer because, again, children are obese.
37:13Adolescents are obese. We're talking about forty percent of children, an increase of forty percent over back in the 1990s.
37:23So you're having inflammation and you're having, you know, oxidative stress and all these things that are causing cancer happening not in your 40s or 50s, now they're happening when you're a child.
37:35Obesity is associated with 13 different types of cancer. And forty percent of all new cancer diagnoses in The United States each year are attributed to obesity.
37:47That's like half. Like half of all of cancers right now are attributed to being obese.
37:53That's a lot. So when you think about obesity happening now in children, what's happening is the inflammation and the oxidative stress, what that means is it's able to damage your DNA.
38:06And for the most part cancer is an age related disease. There are some genetics that can lead to childhood cancers.
38:13But by and large cancer hits at like 50, 60, 70, 80, right? Like it's an age related disease, that's most of the time when you're getting cancer, except for now it's happening in our 50s. And that is because, you know, you get damage and it happens, but it might not be in the right part of a gene that can cause cancer.
38:29So it's kind of a statistics game. It happens, and then as it keeps happening year after year after year after year after day after day after day, eventually it's going to happen in the right part of the genome where a cancer cell crops up. And even then, when it's one cancer cell, not a big problem because we have our first line of defense, which is our immune system.
38:46Our immune system recognizes this cell, hey, this is not a normal cell, and it kills it. The problem is, is that obesity, what happens is, not only does it increase the things that damage and initiate the cancer, it increases growth factors like insulin, IGF-one, hormones, estrogen, you know, this is very obviously relevant for breast cancer.
39:09These growth factors and hormones allow cancer cells to survive, even when they otherwise maybe would die.
39:16And obesity suppresses the immune system. So what you have going on here is like the perfect storm for cancer. And it's starting earlier in life, right?
39:26And that eventually, that perfect storm, one of those tumor cells is going to slip through, it's going to make it, it's going to survive, and then it divides and it makes two more, and those two divide and it's exponential growth, and then you get, you know, over five, six years, you a breast tumor, you have a colon cancer tumor.
39:43So obesity, I think, is a big, big driver of why younger people are getting cancer now. The other thing is diet, and it's also very diet and obesity are very much intertwined, right, because you can eat a very poor diet and it can lead to obesity. So diet, ultra processed foods, high refined sugar, you know, added sugar foods, these types of foods are also playing a role in colon cancer in particular.
40:11So, you know, there are studies showing things like if you're eating processed meats, there's things in meats, nitrites that can form nitrosamines, they damage colon cells, and, you know, they're carcinogenic, basically.
40:23If you're, you know, eating all these ultra processed foods, which takes away the fiber. So the food matrix, if you're eating a whole food, you know, even if it's like cheese, like, when you think of fiber, you always think of, like, vegetables.
40:34But, like, food matrix is in whole foods. And young people are not eating enough of fruits and vegetables.
40:42They're not eating enough whole grains like quinoa, amaranth, buckwheat, you know, that oats. Ninety five percent of Americans don't meet, like, the fiber intake, which is like, it's like 14 grams per 1,000 calories you take in.
40:57Why is that important? Why is fiber important? It's probably one of the it's probably one of the most well studied macronutrients in terms of preventing colon cancer.
41:05There's so much evidence. Like, you can't ignore it. Fiber does a lot of things.
41:10One, it moves stuff through you quicker. So when you have chemicals in your food, like nitrites or heterocyclic amines, like those are found in meats that are charred. So if you've charbroiled your meat and that blackened taste, you know, that some people like, there's something in that called heterocyclic amines, which are carcinogenic.
41:28When you eat that food, it sits in your gut. When it sits in your gut in the colon, it damages it. It can cause that mutation that can lead to cancer, right?
41:37Fiber moves stuff through you quicker, so it's not sitting around in your gut and like being able to damage those cells. It's getting it out. It's like in and out, in and out, right?
41:44The other thing is there's different types of fiber. So there's insoluble fiber, which is moving it through you, and then there's soluble fiber, or what's now called fermentable fiber. That type of fiber is, it's basically fuel for bacteria in your colon, the gut microbiome, a lot of beneficial bacteria will eat that soluble fiber, and they form a viscous coating around the gut.
42:08It prevents those chemicals, it's like a barrier, it's like a wall, it's preventing the chemicals from being able to physically damage your colon cells. The other thing it does is it prevents your colon from being able to absorb microplastics and nanoplastics. Fiber's one of the best defenses we have against absorbing both microplastics and nanoplastics.
42:26So it's really important for helping us prevent a lot of the damage that's being done by these toxins, these chemicals, whether it's plastics or, you know, some of these things that are in our ultra processed foods, from damaging our colon.
42:40And so I think that diet also is a really important factor here. Alcohol is another one, especially when it comes to breast cancer, and also colon cancer. But breast cancer in particular.
42:53So a woman's lifetime risk for breast cancer, on average, is one in eight. So if you have eight women in a room, one of those women is going be diagnosed with breast cancer within her lifetime.
43:03If you add obesity into the mix, that's going to increase the chances to like one in six. You add in alcohol, you're going even up.
43:11Right? So all these factors, they compound, you know, and you if you start out with a one in eight chance, like, by golly, you better be doing everything you can to lower your breast cancer risk, not increase it.
43:21And so obesity, losing weight is the biggest thing. You know, not consuming a lot of alcohol, also really, really important when it comes to lowering your risk for breast cancer.
43:29So I think those are three important, I would say, diet, lifestyle factors that are playing a role in younger people getting cancer earlier and earlier.
43:41You said
43:42increasing fiber leads to you being more resilient against some of these different toxins going in your body. Like, what are the main, I guess, foods that people are not eating to have proper fiber intake and then how much fiber should they be getting?
43:57Fiber,
43:58again, there's multiple types of it. So if you're just wanting the kind of insoluble fiber that moves stuff through you quickly, which does also play a role in preventing your body from absorbing plastics, but also, you know, chemicals from being able to damage your colon.
44:12That's found in, like, every fruit and vegetable and whole grain. Okay?
44:17I would say fruit and vegetables are great. Whole grains are like oats, really, really good. The fermentable fiber is really something unique to fruit, skins of berries, mushrooms, onions, artichokes, oats, resistant starch like green bananas or potatoes that are cooked and then cooled.
44:42This is like you're getting this fermentable type of fiber. That is a very different type than just the move stuff through you make you poop kind of fiber, right? This is the stuff that's feeding the gut bacteria and making that gel, that viscous gel.
44:54And so you to be eating berries, you want to be eating mushrooms, you want to be eating artichoke or onion, garlic, you want to be eating oats, quinoa, you know, like those sorts of things have the fermentable type of fiber.
45:07You know, the other thing that that's doing is when the gut bacteria are eating, I say eating, they're fermenting it, right, not only is it making a viscous, you know, barrier in your gut, these bacteria are like little chemical factories, or like .
45:25And they're making compounds called short chain fatty acids, things like butyrate, things like acetate, propionate. These things are getting into your circulation, and they're acting as signalling molecules to the rest of your body.
45:37It's a way for the bacteria in your gut it's so interesting, like, these bacteria in your gut can communicate with other organs in your body, including the immune cells.
45:47And so what happens is when the gut is fermenting these and making these short chain fatty acids, it's causing your immune cells to make a very specific type of immune cells.
45:57First, it's causing them to make T regulatory cells. These are cells that are very important for preventing autoimmune disease, preventing your body from attacking its own tissue.
46:07And the other thing they're doing is it's causing your immune system to make cytotoxic T lymphocytes. These are killing cancer cells.
46:14So again, fibre is at the core for helping you prevent colon cancer through many different ways.
46:22And another way is that it's actually increasing the production of a type of immune cell that kills cancer cells. So you ask how much fiber to get.
46:30It's, like, literally, it's about, you know, the men and women differ based on their body weight. It's also can think about it based on how many calories you consume.
46:39So you're supposed to get fourteen grams for every thousand calories you consume. I think on average, like, you know, 25 to 30 grams is a good place to be, and people are not getting that.
46:53So
46:54The common expression is an apple a day keeps the doctor away. What would be your fruit that you would recommend?
47:00Apples are great. The pectin
47:02so the skin of fruits. I mentioned skin. I only mentioned berries, but apples is also another skin that has the fermentable type of fiber as well.
47:10And mine would be blueberries. Mine would be blueberries. And we talk about why.
47:14I'm obsessed with blueberries.
47:15I'd love to talk about that. I do want to ask, why do you think maybe this is I don't have the data to support this, but at least in my life and the guys I know, they're not eating fruit.
47:27Why do you think people aren't eating fruit as much anymore? Because me personally, when I was younger, I was able to eat fruit without any type of adverse reaction, but then, I don't know, it makes my mouth itchy now, and I hear about all these pesticides in it.
47:46I've been told things about the carnivore diet and just eating steak, guys don't need fruit because when they were in the olden days, they would just hunt animals and women would pick berries. Like, I I hear that kind of sentiment.
47:58Like,
47:59why do you think guys aren't eating fruit? I think I I think all those reasons. I think people people are scared of fruit because they they think that it has too much sugar, and they don't realize that the fruit is very different than added sugar because it has the food matrix.
48:14It slows the glucose response. It also has a lot of beneficial compounds. So many.
48:19It has micronutrients like vitamins and minerals, but it has these polyphenols and flavonols and, like, all these compounds we haven't even discovered yet that are, like, doing beneficial things like improving cognition. I mean, literally. So I I think that it's it's unfortunate that people aren't eating fruit.
48:37Fruit is good for you and, like, eat seasonally. Like, that that was also something that people if if you wanna eat like your ancestors, like, that's that's what was done too. Right?
48:45Like, guys were eating fruit. I mean, give me a break. The carnivore diet, I think, has become popular.
48:52Men love meat. You know? They love meat.
48:55So, like, of course, you're gonna wanna, like, find a justification in your brain to, like, eat more meat and only eat meat. Like, give me a break. Like, yeah.
49:02And, you know, restrictive diets, when you go from, like, a standard American diet or, like you know, restrictive diets can really help.
49:11And that is a very, very restrictive diet. One, you're gonna eat fewer calories. There's gonna be benefits in that in and of itself.
49:16And then that's just anyone that tries to argue otherwise, just not true.
49:21You do you're gonna calorie restrict when you're eating just meat. Like, you just can't eat as much. Like, you're not eating as much.
49:26Right? It's not as diverse. Is it good long term, like, ten years down the road?
49:32I don't think so. You're gonna you're gonna have micronutrient insufficiencies and deficiencies, and that will accelerate aging.
49:38Like, that's something I studied in my postdoc. There's magnesium. Like, there's not a lot like, you're not gonna get magnesium from from muscle meat.
49:45Now maybe if you started doing organ meat, you'll get a little bit more diverse, but still, you're not gonna get enough a lot of these really important micronutrients. So I view it as the most effective way to have an elimination diet and figure out, like, what are the actual factors that I have food sensitivities to.
50:02But, like, I want to ask with all the pesticides and different things in our fruit and vegetables, like, do you where do you get fruit at? Yeah. So, unfortunately,
50:12especially conventionally grown vegetables and fruit, they're they have not only pesticides, but they have forever chemicals.
50:20Like, these are chemicals that are staying around in our body for quite a while, years, not just you know, like, BPA has a pretty quick half life.
50:28Like, you're excreting it every few hours, but you're constantly exposed to it. So it is a concern.
50:35The pesticides are a concern. Obviously, like, organic is better, but you still have to wash the vegetable.
50:41You have to wash it really good, and that does help. What also helps give me peace of mind is there are so many long term observational studies looking at people eating fruits and vegetables.
50:53I mean, countless, indefensible, thousands and thousands and hundreds of thousands of them, Okay, showing that people that eat fruits and vegetables have a lower all cause mortality, lower cardiovascular mortality, lower cancer, everything, lower Alzheimer's disease.
51:07Like, if it was so bad and and this is like you know, pesticides have been around for a while now, So we're talking we're talking, you know, at least, like, even in like, starting back in, what was it, like, the nineteen sixties when they had when they had the DDT. They've they've, like, phased out and, like, come in with new ones.
51:24You know? But, like, at the end of the day, like, there's nothing but benefits.
51:29Nothing but benefits. Now you'll maybe find this one study that some carnival dug up, and it's like, so what? You know?
51:36Like, you can't counter literally hundreds of thousands of studies showing benefits. And then so that that does help with, like it's like, well, if it was so bad and that is because the fiber, it is, like, like, is because the polyphenols, is because the micronutrients, because there's so many beneficial things in these, you know, fruits and vegetables that are happening that it outweighs the negative amount of, like, the little bit of pesticide.
52:04That's that's really, like, my, you know, my take on it. So, you know, that's that's the way I view it.
52:12I think that it's overwhelming in terms of the benefits. And before we get into
52:17some things like daily habits for people to avoid, I just want to understand a little bit more about you. What would you say is the most important part of your backstory to understand why you care about people living long, healthy, happy lives?
52:35That's an interesting question. For me, I know that there's quite a few habits and lifestyle factors that people can do that they're not doing, that can have an outsized effect on their health and their well-being.
52:56And, for example, vitamin d deficiency, insufficiency, seventy percent of The US population.
53:02Omega three fatty acids, ninety percent of The US population. You know, magnesium, fifty percent of the population.
53:09These are easy things that when I say easy, people can take a supplement. It doesn't get easier than taking a pill.
53:16Not a lot of effort. I'm not asking you to go to the gym, although I do ask you to go to the gym. I'm just saying, I know that small habits, these little small habits can lower your risk for, you know, Alzheimer's disease, dementia, cardiovascular disease by quite a lot.
53:32It can, you know, lower your all cause mortality. We're talking five year increase in life expectancy, like things like this. You know?
53:39So it's frustrating that this information is out there in a in a time where we have access to so much information so easily, so readily.
53:49And yet, people are still not doing it. They're still not they don't have the information.
53:54And so to me, it's like, well, I want them to have that information. Like, that's that's huge. That's huge.
54:00So that's a big, I think, a big driver for me. And it's still and I've been talking about this for ten years, and still, it's like we still have these, you know, rampant insufficiencies in some of these important vitamins and minerals, and that's just the start of it.
54:14Like, there's so many things that can be done to improve the way you age, to lower your disease risk, and but also to improve your your cognitive function and your well-being and your mental health, make you feel better, like, to give you more energy.
54:28So, I mean, all these things are important. Right? If you had that information, why wouldn't you wanna share it?
54:32Was there a deficiency
54:34that maybe you had that maybe you solved and had a big impact on your life or maybe, like, a close family member had that you were like, oh, you just need an iron supplement.
54:45You just saw it. It made all the world of a difference.
54:48I think omega omega three fatty acids were one where I mean, it's I've I've seen changes in family members in their in their blood biomarkers, and it's just like night and day.
55:03I mean, doctors are also just like, keep doing what you're doing. So I think that was a big one. And also, not only for blood biomarkers, but my dad has Parkinson's, and I got him on omega three years.
55:16And, I mean, he's had it he's had it for about nine years now Mhmm. And really hasn't progressed much.
55:22And I I immediately got him on a really high dose of omega three, and his neurologist is like, keep doing what you're doing because this is amazing. And so I think that also is a a big, you know, reinforcing, I would say, factor that, hey.
55:35These things make a difference in and not only preventing disease, but, like, slowing disease prod progression, particularly when it's a bad disease like Parkinson's. And then on the omega three,
55:45would you say that the average omega three supplement that someone has in their cabinet is effective?
55:54So omega three unfortunately, supplements in general are pretty bad.
56:02It's it's it's not regulated. It's not FDA regulated. People are just kinda making stuff, and, you know, it it may not have enough omega three in there.
56:09It may not be good quality. Do you think they should be? I I go back and forth on this.
56:15I don't really want I don't think I want them to be regular I don't wanna have to, like, get a prescription for it for sure. Like, I wanna just go get my vitamin C and all that.
56:24So I do like that I can just have that freedom, but it would be nice to have a middle ground where it's like, hey. You can't just, like, go produce these things in China and have a bunch of heavy metals and cadmium and, like, no active ingredient in it.
56:39Like, I feel like there should be some, like, repercussions. There's not.
56:44There's not. I mean, so that that, I you know, I think that I'd like to see some kind of middle ground area where that we have some some more.
56:51But we have third party testing, and that's what I use. So the omega threes in the cabinet, not ideal.
56:57You want them refrigerated because you want to you wanna lower the oxidation.
57:02Omega threes are very prone to oxidation. Being exposed to oxygen can cause them to be damaged and cause them to be oxidized.
57:10You don't want to really consume oxidized lipids, oxidized fat. But you want to put it in the fridge instead of the cabinet.
57:17But also, want to make sure that you're getting a good quality supplement. So you want to look for third party testing and making sure that they have the amounts of omega-three that says on the nutrition facts, because by and large, people don't have those amounts. And you want to make sure it doesn't have a bunch of contaminating factors like mercury, PCBs, right?
57:34And third party testing exists, and you can find good quality supplements. You just have to look up the third party testing and say, oh, these brands have passed the test, right?
57:42I like to use ConsumerLab. ConsumerLab, I don't have any affiliation with them, but they're basically like, you pay a yearly fee.
57:50I don't remember how much it is, but they third party test everything from protein supplements to, you know, regular fish oil supplements to tea, everything.
58:01So, like, anything you're gonna be consuming, they do. They go off they go out and get all these, like, supplements out of the grocery store shelf and test it and say, hey.
58:08Is this really legit? So it's nice. It's nice to have that data.
58:12That's really fascinating. I'm kind of rethinking that. We talked about methylene blue before this podcast, and I'm like, it'd probably be more efficacious if I put it in the refrigerator, right, since it's antioxidant.
58:23Yeah. I mean, I don't know that methylene blue I don't yeah. I mean But there are some things that have to be, like, in different temperature environments.
58:30I would say that that omega three is unique because it really does have it really it's very prone to oxidation. So that would be one that really should be refrigerated. But the methylene blue probably already in and of itself is antioxidative, so it's, like, probably a little more protected if it's not in the refrigerator.
58:50But then the question is, where's your source of methylene blue? What's in it? Because none of this stuff is and that's the problem with these peptides.
58:57I mean, there's so much hype now. And my biggest concern isn't that they don't work. I mean, peptides work if it's legit a legit peptide.
59:06The problem is, like, 99% of all these peptides are being sourced in, like, China.
59:12And, you know, they're full of all sorts of contaminants. There have been some studies looking at that. So unless you're, like, getting a GLP-one from a physician, there's a couple of compounding pharmacies in The US that are making GLP-1s for some of the big guys.
59:28But all these, like, BPC-one hundred fifty seven and all the repair and Wolverine and all that, this is the Wild West, man. This is like the concern is, like, what are you injecting?
59:41You know? What are you injecting? But it's the age old problem.
59:45It's the same problem with supplements. There's so many studies out there now showing that supplements, you know, a large percentage of them don't contain the active component of what's said on the nutrition facts, or they have a little bit too little.
59:56Some of them have too much, like melatonin. Some melatonin supplements have like 100 times more than what's said on the can you imagine?
1:00:03Giving Like that to a kid or something? It's got a 100 times more melatonin. It's just not right.
1:00:07That because I've taken melatonin, and some days, like, I felt like I slept for two days. You know? Groggy when you wake up, and you're just like, what?
1:00:13Right. Yeah. Yeah.
1:00:15I believe it's it's more ethic like, effective to,
1:00:18like, microdose melatonin too. Right? Yeah.
1:00:20You don't want a really large dose of melatonin for that reason where, like, you're it's hard to clear it from your system. You know? You're gonna wake up really groggy.
1:00:29So so doing doing, you know, I I you know, some some researchers will say less than three milligrams. I think three milligrams is fine.
1:00:38But you, you know, some there was at least one study showing like the microgram range. But there's a lot of studies that have looked at three milligrams, and that's been pretty good. So
1:00:46we have colon cancer rising 3% every year, testosterone dropping 1% every year. Based on grip strength, we're raising the weakest generation of men in history, and their sperm counts are down 50% over the last fifty years.
1:01:03Aside from a few of the things we've talked about, just big picture, if a guy is listening to this right now and wants to fight back, what are some everyday items quietly poisoning young men?
1:01:18Everyday items quietly poisoning young men. I mean, water, food, air.
1:01:23I mean, those are every my phone.
1:01:25Your phone. Yeah. Yeah.
1:01:28So
1:01:29I think, unfortunately, water is a big source of some I mean, if we're talking about microplastics and or associated chemicals, it's coming from water, and it's coming from our food, and it's coming from the air we breathe.
1:01:45And so things that, you know, to consider I mean, do you wanna hear solutions, or do you wanna talk about that later? I think I would say
1:01:54if your question is just identifying what they are Yeah. Yeah. I'm curious of what they all are because I I'm actually not sure how air is bad and, like Okay.
1:02:02How you would even optimize for that. Yeah. Yeah.
1:02:05Okay. So water,
1:02:06microplastics, nanoplastics, chemicals, pharmaceuticals, you know, we got all sorts of stuff in our water.
1:02:11Right? So and that's that's like a big source of of microplastics and stuff in our in our system.
1:02:17So that would be, one, getting a water filter. A reverse osmosis water filter is great.
1:02:23Any activated carbon water filter is good, to be honest. Two, food, right? So the more ultra processed and processed foods you eat, the more you're getting a lot of these plastic chemicals, particularly if you're eating out, if you're having to go because the food is being put into plastic hot, that's dramatically increasing the breakdown of microplastics and their chemicals into your food.
1:02:44In fact, there was a study showing that, like, heating up food or or beverages causes 50 fold more plastic chemicals to go into food and beverage. And it's the same with microplastics.
1:02:54So whole foods, cook your own food. I know how else to say that.
1:03:00To go coffee is a big, big, big source. People going out and getting their coffee to go. Plastic cups, you may think, oh, it's in a paper cup.
1:03:07No. It's aligned with plastic. So you're putting this hot beverage into that plastic, and it's again, you're drinking plast microplastics, and you're drinking,
1:03:17you know, the chemicals. What if you're just drinking, like, an iced coffee? Is that okay?
1:03:22Have you watched them make the iced coffee? If they don't put the ice in first, I would I mean, so, essentially, the shot of espresso goes into the plastic cup. If you have a bunch of ice there to buffer it, it's a little better.
1:03:34Right? But, yeah, it's you're still getting the ice. It's better than getting hot.
1:03:38Right. It's better if you're like, you need to get your coffee, you're on the go, you're traveling, For sure, even on a cold day, I would say, if you can't drink it in the mug or bring your own mug, which is often what I do. I bring my own like, I'll bring, like, a Yeti mug and have them make it.
1:03:52Most of the time, they'll do it. Sometimes they're like, can't do that. I gotta do the I gotta pour it from here to there, I'm like, that defeats the person.
1:03:57Bring a Yeti to Starbucks? I do. I do.
1:04:00I bring it with me. I travel in the airport. I bring it to the airport.
1:04:02I have them make my latte or whatever. And most of the time, they'll do it, like I said.
1:04:07Certain businesses, it's kind of random. I don't know if it's the people working there. They're like, I don't want to deal with I don't know, possibly.
1:04:14But I do. I bring my own YETI mug because I can't do it.
1:04:22All I can think about is I'm drinking plastic and BPA, right? So that's another thing I think people aren't realizing is slowly like poisoning them.
1:04:31And then again, all the foods and to go foods you're not thinking about. Like, that stuff is hot. It's going into your food.
1:04:38Anything that's acidic or spicy in a plastic container, so salad dressing in those little plastic containers, or your condiments that are in plastic. If you get hot sauce or ketchup, it's full of plastic, and they're chemicals.
1:04:50Like, this is stuff people aren't thinking about, but it's there because the acidity is doing kind of what heat does. It's causing it to leach into the to your condiments. So that's another thing.
1:04:59I mean, not to drive you crazy, but, like, you know, it is something to think about. Do you bring your own sauces when you go out?
1:05:06I usually am just not using the sauce or like, I like to I when I buy my own condiments, I get for I go for the glass.
1:05:15You know? So it's like glass and salsa, glass and the ketchup. Like, Primal Kitchen makes a lot of nice they have a lot of glass things.
1:05:24Sometimes I'll just, like, deal with it. I'm like, alright. Just live this once.
1:05:27You're gonna like, you gotta live life. I like I want this dressing on my salad or whatever if I'm on a long flight.
1:05:33But oftentimes, I'll just pass on it because I'm like, oh, it's, like, full of plastic. Right. I remember the sentiment about
1:05:41so you I I do wanna close the loop really quick. You said water. Yes.
1:05:45Food? Yeah. Water, food, air.
1:05:48Air.
1:05:49What's air? Yeah. Yeah.
1:05:50So we're breathing in tons of microplastics, and this can can segue if you wanna talk about the brain and microplastics in the brain. This is why I think they're in there, majority of the reason why.
1:06:02So plastics are our whole, like, environment is, like, made of plastic.
1:06:08Right? I mean, plastic is like yeah. I'm sure this even table that seems to be wood.
1:06:12I mean, plastic is on our couches. It's, you know, tires that are driving on the the highway and the road. It's not just rubber.
1:06:20It's plastic polymers mixed in there. The friction is making microplastics in the air. Carpet, upholstery, clothing, everything.
1:06:28You know, you wash your clothes, then you turn on the dryer. All those clothes are made of plastic polymers, and it's going into the air. So particularly in urban environments, there's particulate matter.
1:06:38You've heard of that, air pollution. Plastic particles are in that particulate matter. So we are breathing them in all the time.
1:06:46And the more of the urban the environment, the more you're breathing it in. So I have HEPA filters, like, in every room in my house to filter out the air and the microplastics. And that's a solution, at least while you're at home, while you're sleeping, and you wanna you know, you're spending a lot of time at home, you wanna be able to filter that air out.
1:07:05But people aren't realizing that. And then, you know, clothing, all these clothing that we're wearing, I would say that's less of a concern.
1:07:13Although some of the athletic clothing, you're sweating in it. You're The chemicals from the plastic are like, you know, you do absorb, especially when you're hot. When you heat yourself, it opens up your pores to take in stuff better.
1:07:25There's a dermal barrier. So the majority of, you know, these toxic chemicals, like plastic chemicals, are getting in our body because orally, we're we're inhaling it.
1:07:36Inhaling it essentially bypasses the blood brain barrier. It goes like straight it's like a straight gateway to our brain, essentially, which is why a lot of drugs are delivered.
1:07:46Like, I worked at a children's cancer, like, St. Jude Children's Research Hospital, which is pediatric cancer. And the big problem with, you know, a lot of these brain cancers, like glioblastoma or medulloblastoma that kids will get is you can't get the drugs, the cancer drugs, to their brain because of the blood brain barrier.
1:08:03And so, you know, the bypass for that is like, we're going to make drugs that you inhale. You breathe it in because it gets into the brain, right? So we're breathing in these plastic particles.
1:08:12Guess what? It's getting into the brain. And so that's another thing.
1:08:17And the clothing I mentioned, I would be, like, less like, not as much of a concern, but it's still something, I would say, to answer your question, that, you know, quietly poisoning you would be that as well.
1:08:30The water portion,
1:08:32a lot I remember hearing this sentiment about, like, there's plastic in the water and it's lowering your testosterone, and my solution was, drink out of I think I had a reverse osmosis filter for a bit, and then I saw some counter thing that was like, This isn't as nutritious as typical water.
1:08:56So I got vitamins put in it. It's like, it's still not good enough. So we've just opted for drinking glass water bottles, a can of water, occasionally plastic water bottles.
1:09:07But is that pretty much just as bad as drinking tap water in your view?
1:09:12So aluminum cans are lined with plastic. Right.
1:09:16And that plastic's leaching into that water or beverage, And that's definitely not a great thing. Same with plastic.
1:09:25So plast drinking water out of plastic bottles, you know, because these bottles, they're, like, they're going they're on ships to get here. They're on, you know you know, these big trucks, and it's hot, and, like, who knows?
1:09:35Like, the temperature's right. You get it cold when you're, like, getting it from the store, but it it wasn't always cold. You know?
1:09:41So the these there's plastic in them. In fact, there you do drink you get more plastic particles from drinking out of the plastic bottle than you do from from tap water, But there's a lot in tap water. Reverse osmosis, I mean, it is it is better.
1:09:54It's better. You can add minerals back. You can take a mineral supplement, which is what I do.
1:09:59That's the biggest concern. If you're eating a diverse diet if you're on a carnivore diet, yeah, okay. Like, you're not getting enough.
1:10:05But, like, if you're eating a diverse diet and you're taking, like, a like, a multivitamin, a lot of those trace elements and stuff are in those as well. So I would say reverse osmosis is is the king when it comes to to drinking water because you're getting rid of the nanoplastics.
1:10:20You're getting rid of all the chemicals. You're getting rid of all that stuff. Forever chemicals, PFAS, they're in tap water.
1:10:26So that is, I would say, the gold standard. And yeah.
1:10:30Find microplastics in glass water bottles? Yes. So microplastics are also in glass water bottles as well.
1:10:36I know it's so heartbreaking for me. But and it wasn't actually the first study to show that.
1:10:42There's I did a deep dive into that. There's other studies showing that as well. It comes it's coming from the paint on the lids.
1:10:48So there's paint on the lids. And during the manufacturing and bottling of it, I mean, you know, all these little things are like, we can't see them, but they're, like, coming off and getting into the water.
1:10:59The saving grace for me is that the studies have looked at the size of the microplastics and compared them to, like, microplastics in water coming from a plastic water bottle.
1:11:11The size is bigger from the glass bottle because it's coming from paint than the the plastic bottle, which is coming from the plastic itself, and that makes a big difference in the ability of your gut to absorb it. So it's it's actually you actually don't absorb all the microplastics that are getting into your gut.
1:11:28It's a small fraction of them, actually. And the more fiber you eat, guess what? Less you're absorbing.
1:11:34The bigger the plastic particle, the less likely your gut is going to absorb it. It's the smaller particles, the nanoplastics, which is what you'll find in plastic water bottles, that are really easily getting across these gut epithelial cells and the barrier that they make.
1:11:49So size matters, and I do think that is something and so when I'm traveling, I do still when I get to my hotel, one of the first things I do is I Instacart glass water from glass because I can't I just can't drink out of plastic.
1:12:02It's really hard for me to drink. I I don't have, like I have some I know some people that really have gone far, and they're like, when they're traveling, they get all their water from fruit. Like, there's like, I can't do that.
1:12:13Like, I'm not that extreme. Like, I will drink out of a plastic bottle if I have to, but I prefer not to. Right.
1:12:19But glass water overall better than tap water, you would say? I would say yeah. Okay.
1:12:26Interesting. Yeah. But particularly, you know, it depends on where you're at too.
1:12:31Like, you know, I spent six years living in Memphis, Tennessee. They have these really great aquifer, like, natural filter system there.
1:12:38The tap water there is actually pretty clean. Right. So let me let me modify my statement and say, it depends.
1:12:45If we're talking about Southern California, yes. Definitely better.
1:12:49If we're talking about someone with somewhere that has a nice natural aquifer that's filtering water naturally through the ground, maybe maybe better to drink that than than the glass, certainly, but than the plastic.
1:13:01Does sleeping next to your phone kill your sperm?
1:13:05I've been really interested in this question, not only sperm, but just like, is it gonna give you brain cancer? Right? And I I would say that no.
1:13:17I would say no. But I would also say only because I would caveat it because we're we're now in the year 2026. And so let's look at what the data shows.
1:13:28Okay? Probably the best evidence that has linked mobile phones to sperm count was this really big study out of Switzerland.
1:13:39Have you seen this study? Okay. It's a very large study out of Switzerland, and it looked at mobile phone use and sperm count.
1:13:48And it found that guys, men that use their phone 20 times a day had like, you know, 20% lower sperm count than men that use their phones less than once a week.
1:14:02First of all, who uses their phone less than once a week? Like, I want to know Probably high testosterone people. Like, right.
1:14:09Yeah. But so that was the main finding from that study. That study then went on to look at location of the phone.
1:14:15So, like, if you're if the phone was in the trouser, like, did that affect sperm count? It did not. It it it was just having like, using the mobile phone a lot, like, having it, like, around you a lot.
1:14:27So it wasn't like location really mattered. But then it went on to even compare two g to three g, like, to five g.
1:14:37Right? No, actually it only compared two gs to three gs to I think maybe four gs. And what was found in that study was that it was really the two gs that was associated with the low sperm count.
1:14:51As they went up to like the three gs, they weren't seeing any effect on sperm count. And there have been follow-up studies now that have also looked at that, and some in cell culture studies where they take sperm semen, put it in a petri dish, expose it to two g, they expose it to three g or five g, and then they look and see how it affects, you know, morphology and function and all these things.
1:15:14And it turns out that because as we, like, went up to five g, the radio frequency and that sort of transmission is much more efficient. Instead of constantly searching and searching and searching, it's really quick at getting it.
1:15:29And so the sperm are not being exposed to that radio frequency as much, right? That EMF radiation radiofrequency as much.
1:15:40And so I think now five gs is much better than the four gs. And in fact, there's even studies that have found that if you look at, like, the year 2000 to, like, 2006 or something like that where it was two g, like, that's where you see the big sperm count drop.
1:15:57But then, like, as it gets to, like, three G, four g, you're not seeing the same effects. So it's a bit nuanced.
1:16:03I think to be careful, it's best to probably not sleep with your phone right next to you. I mean, these days, the problem is no one has a landline, and so if there's an emergency, you want to be able to answer that call.
1:16:18So maybe, like, have your phone on, but maybe, like, far from you and have, you know, your call list with the emergency numbers that can punch through or whatever. Or just get a landline. There are landlines now that you can get that you can have a contact list.
1:16:32Like, I have a kid, and so this is a big thing. There's a tin can phone where we have all the classmates, where it's like, it's a landline, and the classmates are on your, you you have a contact list, and no one can call that to your phone unless they're on your list.
1:16:48You can always call 911, but no one can, there's no spammers, no predators, like, of that can happen. And so that's kind of cool as well. I think that it doesn't have to be just kids that use them.
1:16:59Think adults can get them too, because then you can only have people on your contact list that can call you in the middle of the night, and they're probably not going to call you in the middle of night unless it's an emergency. My point is that I do think it's better to be on the safe side. I'm not convinced that there's still not an effect, but I do think it's a bit nuanced, where it's like now, oh, there was this robust effect, particularly when it was two g, so we have to kind of, like, keep that in our perspective here where, you know, there's a difference now.
1:17:27Right? Like, we're not it's like our transmission is much more efficient.
1:17:31Right? And that's kind of part of the problem where it's constantly putting out that signal, and that's the damaging signal. Right?
1:17:37Right. I'm kind of I I want to understand this. So
1:17:41me personally, I sleep with my phone on airplane mode because I can tell a difference if there's, like, some frequency or something moving. Like, I I I just sleep better.
1:17:52Like, you could ask my wife. I'm like, hey.
1:17:56Is your phone on airplane mode? And she's like, no. I'm like, okay.
1:17:58Can you turn airplane mode on? Like, I can't sleep. And, like, works very well.
1:18:02Maybe that's just my experience. But, like, does the two g, five g you're saying that since the networks are faster and the frequencies transmit faster and they don't have to keep searching, that that's better for you?
1:18:18Like, I'm I'm kinda confused on that. Yeah. It's it's basically you're not being exposed to it as much.
1:18:22Right? When it immediately finds the
1:18:25it's not like transmitting that signal, like like, hitting your brain or your testicles. Right? It's like it picks it up efficiently.
1:18:33Does that mean there's no effect? No. It doesn't.
1:18:35It doesn't mean that. I'm just saying I don't think it's as bad as the two g was.
1:18:40I think, you know you know, people that are using those Bluetooths and things that are, like, always, like, constantly
1:18:49next to their brain. Mean Do you wear AirPods?
1:18:51I do sometimes, and I have to, like, go back to, like, the old school. I just haven't I just haven't because I got a new phone.
1:18:59My other phone, I my older phone, I was plugging in was plugging in the the old, like, earphones, but now I have to get the new ones because the the plug in thing is different, right, for the new iPhone. But, yeah, I don't wear AirPods a lot.
1:19:13I wear them occasionally, like like, on a twenty five minute run, you know, where it's like I and it's, like, very I I don't wear them a lot.
1:19:22I don't think you should wear them a lot. I do kind of worry a little bit because it's just right next to your brain. But, again, this is all, like, it's all the, like, don't have enough data on it.
1:19:32I think the data that has linked mobile phones to sperm, a lot of it is coming from that two gs era where they're looking they're looking back at, like, the two thousands, and and, you know, so but that doesn't mean I don't think there's no concern at all.
1:19:49I just think it might not be as bad as it was. Now,
1:19:54we discussed hot tubs and how those can lower men's sperm count. Do you think weed is killing young men's fertility?
1:20:04I know for a fact that tobacco smoke does, which is interesting because our grandparents were probably smoking a lot back in the day. And, yeah, our our the sperm is still lower now.
1:20:15There's a few I think it's more nuanced with cannabis, to be honest. I I have come across studies over the, you know, years, and, like, this stuff just kinda comes on my radar.
1:20:24I like to read new studies when I'm drinking coffee in the morning. There's studies I've come across from, like, in, like, the fertility clinics looking at, like, infertility problems and stuff, and it seems like there is an association with cannabis use and, like, sperm morphology. It's not as clear.
1:20:42But I would say for someone that's wanting to conceive, definitely cut that out. Definitely cut that out.
1:20:51If I were to just go on opinion here, because, again, the data is very nuanced and we don't have enough of it, I think it's probably affecting sperm. We've talked about plastics, but
1:21:02I wanna understand a different type of plastic. What is black plastic, and why is it so dangerous?
1:21:11Black plastic. Well, it's dark.
1:21:14It's black. Black plastic is something that came on my radar, I don't know, probably, like, year and a half, two two years ago maybe.
1:21:25And it came on my radar from, like, this study that was talking about how black plastic has all these flame retardants in it.
1:21:35Flame retardants are carcinogenic. It's something that firemen are unfortunately exposed to a lot. And the reason these plastics have flame retardants in them is because they're often made from recycled electronics.
1:21:49Flame retardants are added to electronics to prevent fires, right?
1:21:54And so when you have I mean, it's a great thing to recycle, of course, great for the environment. But when you're recycling electronics and then putting it into like plastic that's going to be used for food or for cooking, then that's a whole other problem, right?
1:22:08We don't want to be consuming carcinogens, we don't want to be consuming flame retardants. And you'll see everything from plastic utensils, like forks and stuff that people have at birthday parties or parties.
1:22:22The bigger problem here is the cooking utensils, the black spatulas, the black spoons, things that are going to be heated up. Because when you heat up, it's the same common denominator with everything.
1:22:32When you heat it, you're going to, you know, leach the plastics and the chemicals into your food or whatever you're much more. Right?
1:22:41The other problem is, and this really was, like, a bad, like, moment for me because I had eaten so many rotisserie chickens in my life, but, like, when you order those rotisserie you think you're eating healthy. Like, I'm getting, like, you know, a nice, good piece of protein. The bottom of that chicken's like black plastic, thin black plastic, and the chicken's put in it hot.
1:23:00So you're talking about like not only getting microplastics, but the brominated chemicals. The brominated chemicals are the flame retardants, which are carcinogenic.
1:23:08So that is a problem. Now the study had identified the levels of these brominated chemicals that were getting into food.
1:23:17It has now been retracted, like they had overestimated. But it's still a high amount.
1:23:23And that's why I'm not citing the amount anymore because now it's not actually it's been retracted in terms of, like, that number. They did a statistical error.
1:23:32But Was that recently? Yeah. But the point is is that is that it's the the the these plastics still have these, you know, brominated chemicals in them.
1:23:42And the only, you know, the only thing is is that maybe it's not 30 to 40 times as much as safe, but maybe it's, like, 20 or 15.
1:23:51You know? Whatever the number is, like, if you're daily consuming this stuff, if you're using black spatulas and you're eating to go food that has black plastic and is being heated up, that's a lot of exposures. You know?
1:24:03It adds up. So it's something that I'm still very concerned about, and I think that it's time to phase it out, honestly. You know?
1:24:12Like, we have all this information now. The problem is it's cheap. The black plastic is, like, cheap.
1:24:17Like, I I and I've talked to, like, some people that are, you know, friends with restaurant owners, like, friends of mine that have friends that are restaurant owners, and, like, they are trying to convince them to stop using it. And they're like, no.
1:24:27It's cheaper. So they're incentivized to keep to use it. So black plastics
1:24:32are derived from, like, recycled electronics. And then I should really know the answer to this.
1:24:39My dad used to work at a plastic bottle factory when I was younger. But, like, what are normal plastics derived from?
1:24:48I mean, well, plastics are made from some of these they're polymers. Sometimes they're made from recycled things.
1:24:55Not all plastics are recycled. But they're they're made from it's a variety of different things.
1:25:00Right? I mean, there's so many different types of plastic polymers, but that's what's making up plastics themselves.
1:25:07And if you're just asking, like, if some if some of the other plastics are recycled, they are. Like, these water bottles, the thin, flimsy ones, like, they're made from and, recycled plastic is is less stable.
1:25:21And so it's like leaching more plastics easier. So it's good for the environment, not great for us.
1:25:27Recycled plastic is less stable. Yeah. Like, you know, that flimsy plastic water bottle.
1:25:32Like That's interesting. Because I guess since the invention of plastic, we would just see more and more recycled plastic over time. So it just gets weaker and weaker.
1:25:38That's interesting. Yeah. The flimsy plastic is the worst.
1:25:42It's like the one that's, like, leaching everything. How about Styrofoam?
1:25:46Styrofoam also has chemicals. I think it might even have some some of the forever chemicals on it.
1:25:51It's not good, especially putting hot liquid into it. Right. Interesting.
1:25:55Yeah. All that stuff. I mean Is there one statistic you've seen about plastic?
1:25:59Like, have you mapped out maybe
1:26:03just since we started using plastic to all the different ways that end our life quicker? Like, have you looked at anything like that? I mean, these studies are really it's like a growing
1:26:14field. And I think the thing that is the statistic that was most compelling to me is the the microplastics in the brain that, so there was a study out of Brazil and they looked at a variety of different organs.
1:26:28All of them had plastics in them. But the brain had 10 to 20 times more plastic particles than any other organ. And to me, it was completely shocking because I know that we have this thing called the blood brain barrier to protect our brain from this very thing, right, from chemicals and toxins and all sorts of stuff getting in there.
1:26:52And so that was a very shocking statistic and also very eye opening, I think, piece of data, because it really highlights how this is a problem.
1:27:05The plastic is ubiquitous. It's getting into our body, and it's getting into our brains. And that same study also looked at postmortem, so people that had died, people that had died and had Alzheimer's disease, And it looked at people that died that did not have Alzheimer's disease.
1:27:19And it found that people that had Alzheimer's disease, when they did biopsies of their brain, they had like 10 times more microplastics in their brain than people that did not have Alzheimer's disease. And we also know from many studies that air pollution is probably now, I would say, one of the top environmental causes of Alzheimer's disease.
1:27:41Air pollution being particulate matter. There have been studies out of Mexico City where air pollution is really bad.
1:27:47They're finding amyloid beta plaques. This supposed to be happening when you're old, and it's associated with it's a pathological feature of Alzheimer's disease.
1:27:56It's disrupting the synapses, the connection between neurons. It's how neurons form a memory.
1:28:01It's how they're talking to each other, right? It's disrupting those. They're finding it in the brains of babies.
1:28:06So babies that have died for whatever reason, unfortunately, postmortem, they've found amyloid plaques in these brains, you know, of babies living in Mexico City where air pollution is bad.
1:28:16It's crazy. So getting back to that story, you know, we're breathing in these plastics, and I think that that is why we have 10 to 20 times more plastic in our brain than we do in any other organ because there's two ways to get there.
1:28:31One, nanoplastics that get through our gut, get into circulation.
1:28:35Nanoplastics can get across the brain, blood brain barrier, but then we have this whole other way of breathing. No one's shown this. It's kind of just a theory, and I'm sure someone's going to show it.
1:28:45It makes perfect sense, you know? So we've got two ways to get it into our brain. And I think, you know, knowing, just knowing what we know, there have been studies in animals looking at microplastics in the brain.
1:28:56What are they doing? They're causing inflammation. Plastic in your brain.
1:28:59It's causing inflammation. Inflammation is a known driver. It's called neuroinflammation.
1:29:04It's a known driver of Alzheimer's disease, of dementia. And so when you're having this low grade, starting as a baby, plastic in your brain, and then it's just, you know, decade after decade after decade, like, stuff's going to add up, right?
1:29:17It's going to accelerate the, you know, Alzheimer's disease.
1:29:21It's going to accelerate brain aging. It also affects, you know, neuroinflammation affects mood.
1:29:28It's also involved in depression. I mean, there have been studies showing that you can literally like just inject a healthy, normal young person with bacteria, like not even bacteria, but like the outer membrane of bacteria.
1:29:40It's called endotoxin. It's something that we release into our bloodstream when we have gut permeability, or leaky gut, as it's called.
1:29:47And you can cause depressive symptoms in a normal person compared to injecting them with just like a saline placebo control. So we know inflammation, like just acutely, can cause depressive symptoms.
1:29:58And so you don't want to have that chronic neuroinflammation going on because not only is it accelerating brain aging, not only is it making you have a higher risk of age related neurodegenerative diseases, but it's affecting your mood. It's also affecting cognition.
1:30:13When you have inflammation going on, guess what? You're not sharp. Right.
1:30:17Inflammation is a huge energy sink. Like, whatever energy is going on like, that's why when you're sick, like, you're so tired.
1:30:26Because activation of your immune system the activation of your immune system requires a ton of energy. And so it's being triaged to that activation to fight off the pathogen. Like your body wants you to survive and not die, right?
1:30:37And so the energy is being triaged away from your brain and is going to activate your immune system. The same thing is happening when you have low grade chronic inflammation going on.
1:30:46And it is kind of like this cause of what people call brain fog. Brain fog, in my opinion, is it's the chronic low grade inflammation that people have. And that's caused by
1:30:57excess
1:30:58visceral fat tissue? It's caused by excess fat, obesity, visceral fat. It's caused by, you know, eating tons of refined sugar, gut permeability, causes inflammation.
1:31:08You know, it's caused by poor diet. It's caused by microplastics. It's caused by not getting enough sleep.
1:31:15So many things can can lead to inflammation. Yeah. That's that's like, what's causing my brain fog?
1:31:21It's like, oh my gosh. Where do we start? Right?
1:31:23I mean, there's so many things that can be causing it. This chronic inflammation is a is a it's a big pro being sedentary. You know?
1:31:30Sedentary and obesity, like these things, particularly the visceral fat, and because it's really, really increasing those inflammatory cytokines.
1:31:39Let me know if I'm getting this right. I'm trying to understand, but so essentially, eating a doughnut lowers your testosterone theoretically.
1:31:51These small one time habits aren't that bad for you, but it's just when you develop them consistently, everything stacks up, and then just having excess fat or having microplastics Are those microplastics flushing out of your body or are we just having them so consistently that eventually they stay?
1:32:10It seems like there's short term problems that hurt you, then there's habits that build that keep you in that lowered state, and then there's
1:32:19long term storage of excess fat and visceral fat that just cause long term damage. Like, as far as the plastics go, are they cycling out? You're thinking about this right.
1:32:28Let me start with your sugar question. But, yes, when you eat, like, 75 of sugar, testosterone goes down, like, 25%. It's transient.
1:32:35It'll go back up. You're right. If you're, like, having a doughnut once and you're cheating, whatever.
1:32:38You know? It's the it's the habit. It's, like, the daily like, then you're also eating your cookies, and then you're also, like, all the ultra processed foods and all the all that adds up.
1:32:46Microplastics. When it comes to microplastics, they bioaccumulate.
1:32:50They there's no once they get into circulation, there's no point of return.
1:32:56There's no way out. They don't get excreted. They accumulate.
1:32:59They bioaccumulate. Chemicals, the chemicals associated with, so these microplastics are bad for multiple reasons.
1:33:07One is they themselves are causing inflammation, and that's the problem with the bioaccumulation, because they're going to continue to do that. The second problem is the chemicals that are on them, that are in them, right?
1:33:17They're also damaging things, but those do get excreted. They could get excreted through urine, or feces, depending on which chemical we're talking about.
1:33:25BPA goes through urine, Forever chemicals stay in a lot longer, they go through feces. So you do excrete those chemicals, but the plastics themselves, they stay.
1:33:35For now, the best way we can defend ourselves against them, I think, is one, doing the reverse osmosis filter, the the air filter, trying to limit our intake of food that's in all the plastic.
1:33:49Because that stuff is you think you're getting this great salad. It's like in the plastic, and the plastic's like shedding particles. Now, you know, maybe you go to the grocery store and you get a plastic, you're traveling, whatever, you get the plastic salad.
1:34:02Okay. It's probably not been in that plastic for that long. So maybe not the worst thing.
1:34:06Right? It's the hot food. The hot food and plastic for sure.
1:34:10Try to eliminate that as much as possible. So you want to try to eliminate, like, drinking water on a plastic bottle, like all those things we talked about. But also, I think, the fiber.
1:34:19Because if you are getting it, like, you want to, like, give your body, like, the best chance it has to not absorbing it, because that's where you really can make a difference. Once it's in the system, once it's in the blood I mean, there's some people wanting to do, you know, plasma exchange and all that, but, like, we don't really know how much that makes a big difference.
1:34:39And it's constantly getting into your blood. How many times are you going to do that? Okay, one day, great.
1:34:44Tomorrow you wake up and the next day, and then you're being exposed to plastics constantly.
1:34:48I guess the goal is to make yourself just as resilient as possible. And you don't see it as
1:34:53oh, just do this fast, and that will get rid of it. Right? I I love how you said that make yourself as resilient as possible because your body is really resilient.
1:35:03You just have to give it the right tools and do the right things to make it resilient. Like, for example, the fiber. Right?
1:35:09Like, if you are eating the fiber, you're not going to be absorbing as many microplastics or nanoplastics. If you're eating broccoli or broccoli sprouts or cruciferous vegetables, like cabbage or kale or cauliflower, bok choy, all that family, that has a chemical in it that gets converted into something called sulforaphane.
1:35:31That is able to help increase the excretion of some of these chemicals. Benzene, for one, in air pollution. I think BPA, it's the enzymes that are involved in excreting benzene, also are involved in BPA.
1:35:46And so, you know, studies have shown that sulforaphane does excrete the benzene. I just think that it needs to be shown. So I think that if you give your body the right nutrients and you do the right things, I mean, exercise, you're causing the whole thing of, you know, part of exercise is that you're causing inflammation and oxidative stress because you're working your body, and your body adapts, and it up regulates.
1:36:09You've got hundreds of genes that are anti inflammatory and antioxidant, way more than taking methylene blue. Like, that's in pales into comparison to what your body can do in terms of antioxidant capacity.
1:36:21Glutathione is the most beneficial antioxidant in the brain and body. And, you know, exercise can help activate that.
1:36:28Sulforaphane also does it as well. So if you if you're doing these things, you'll have your body is is making and activating all these beneficial anti inflammatory and antioxidant pathways because it dealt with that inflammation and and that oxidative stress that you generated from exercise, but it also stays active for, like, days, you know, forty eight hours or so.
1:36:48Like so, like, you're you're protected for a period of time, and so you can make your body more resilient the more you give yourself the right foods and the more that you engage in the right activities and stay away from things that, like, excessive alcohol drinking, binge drinking. You know, that's a terrible thing for colon cancer as well.
1:37:05Try to do the try to, you know, engage in the right habits, and that's going to make you more resilient. Because guess what?
1:37:12Like, we are gonna be exposed to this stuff constantly. You know, like, you're talking about, well, maybe I should do the carnivore diet because, like, all the vegetables and fruits are full of pesticides. That's the wrong way to think about it.
1:37:21You know what? These fruits and vegetables have the compounds that activate glutathione. They activate our stress response pathways.
1:37:27We like evolved eating them. And and in fact, like, these there's many different I'm talking about sulforaphane as one example because it activates a master pathway in our body called NRF2, which activates detoxification enzymes.
1:37:42When you eat, you know, broccoli, or broccoli sprouts, even better, it has 100 times more of this compound I'm talking about, the precursor to make sulforaphane, called glucoraphanin, it is the strongest dietary activator of this pathway that activates phase two detoxification enzymes that make your body detoxify benzene, acrolein, I think BPA, heterocyclic amines.
1:38:06There are studies showing that people that eat a bunch of charred meat, they have a lower colon cancer incidence if they also eat broccoli. If they don't, they have a higher one. It's negating some of the bad effects of like, charring your meat, because of the phase two detoxification enzymes.
1:38:19The other thing it does is it deactivates something in our body called phase one biotransformation enzymes. These are the enzymes that convert these, like, pro carcinogens into carcinogens in our gut, in our body, and you want that not active.
1:38:33Right? And so when you eat the right foods, like, our body can handle stress.
1:38:37Like, our body is strong and resilient. We just have to give it the tools and and and, you know, put the stress on it that we're supposed to. That comes from eating a diverse diet full of plant phytochemicals, the phytochemicals doing a lot of great things in the body.
1:38:55Exercising, right? Like, that's something that we were talking about. You used to we used to do it.
1:38:58It's part of life. Now we have to make time for it. Like, it's non negotiable.
1:39:03Like, you want to be resilient, because you can't eliminate plastic. It's not going to happen. Like, it's just impossible, right?
1:39:09But you can do what you can to, like, lower and minimize your risk, but you can also do the things to make you more resilient. So I love like, you got me on my, like, thing. I love that you said resilient because I I think that that's the take home here, is that we are resilient.
1:39:22We just have to give our body the right tools to make it resilient.
1:39:27Yeah. I think that we're taught, at least, I don't know, just in school nutrition class and commercials.
1:39:35I mean, that's pretty much the average person's health education. Like, that it's not about resilience and, like, it's just like eat your fruits and vegetables and don't think about it. And then people hear this negative sentiment about fruits and vegetables, so they just turn away from it completely and they never get the resilience portion.
1:39:54I could say at least in my own life, like, I've struggled with an allergy to fruits and vegetables, something called oral allergy syndrome. And when I took I think I drank a friend of mine, he's like an intense carnivore.
1:40:08He was like, well, Jack, it's because you're not drinking enough raw milk. You're not eating raw meat, something like that.
1:40:16And I did try raw milk, and then I ate fruit, and it had way less of a bad effect. So I know that this is a very real phenomenon. I'm just curious of your thoughts on raw milk in general, though.
1:40:27Well, I mean, you're getting a lot of different probiotics
1:40:29Right. In there. So it's like a lot of allergies originate in the gut.
1:40:34Right? I mentioned that the gut is responsible for making something called T regulatory cells. Like like, these things all play a role in allergies, in autoimmune disease.
1:40:44Like, so there's a big, big correlation between allergies and gut health. And so if you're giving yourself the probiotics and the beneficial bacteria and stuff in something like raw milk, there's other sources of that as well, then it makes sense that you would have less of an allergic response because you're really just supplying your gut with the right bacteria so that it's now able to ferment that vegetables and those things in the right way.
1:41:12You're giving it the right bacteria
1:41:14that maybe wasn't there. And I guess when I was a child as well, children are often more resilient in general to a lot of different things.
1:41:23Well, mean, I guess there's the case that people say that they grow out of certain allergies and then there's the case where people
1:41:28yeah. It goes either way. It goes either way.
1:41:31I mean, some people do grow out of some allergies. But as an adult gets older and their gut if they have poor gut health and gut permeability, allergies can form because the gut permeability is essentially allowing them to form.
1:41:46So it can go both ways. But I think, you know, the thing with fruit and vegetables is that people think about it as I've made a case for fiber, and I think that I don't even think the the carnivore people are thinking they they think fiber is just about, like, making you poop, and it's really not.
1:42:01It's really not. It's a lit like, you're literally, like, protecting your your body from absorbing all these chemicals and, like, microplastics and stuff.
1:42:09Like, the viscous stuff that's made, like, you're not getting that with meat. You're not. Fiber is the thing that makes you fool as well.
1:42:15Right? It is satiating. Okay.
1:42:17Yes. It is satiating. And I'm saying fiber.
1:42:18There's different types. We talked about it. Right?
1:42:20But, also, when people think about fruits and vegetables, they only think about the vitamins and minerals. It's the phytochemicals. Those are the things that I'm talking about.
1:42:28This is the sulforaphane, the risperidol, the curcumin. These are things I'm just mentioning ones that people have heard about. There's, I mean, literally thousands and thousands and thousands of them, so many we haven't even identified.
1:42:39Ones that we have identified, I mean, it's they are activating genetic pathways in our body. Like, we were meant.
1:42:46There are gene sequences of DNA that have been identified, like little, short, like 12 repeats of, like, nucleotides that get active when you eat certain phytochemicals. Like, that's amazing. It's amazing.
1:42:57And it's like, the fact that we have a sequence, like, it's got to be in a certain sequence, they're in all these different pathways that are involved in making stem cells and increasing autophagy, the clearing out of stuff in our body, and anti inflammatory, antioxidant, everything that's part of what I would say resilience, right?
1:43:14Stress response, the response to stress, adaptations to stress, right? We have, like, these g these genes have this very specific sequence in them, antioxidant response element, it's called. And it's like a very specific sequence of DNA that's activated by things like polyphenols in blueberries, by sulforaphane in cruciferous vegetables, by, like, some of these compounds in, like, you know, turmeric and root vegetables and stuff.
1:43:39It's found in, like, citrus. I mean, it makes sense, right?
1:43:44Like, we're supposed to eat these things. It's activating genetic pathways in our body. They're meant to be turned on.
1:43:48And, you know, with blueberries, there's studies there's so many now randomized controlled trials that have tested blueberry powder to, like, placebo powder, and literally, like, a cup of blueberries a day improves cognitive performance.
1:44:01It it improves processing speed, memory. I mean, and this is like how easy is it to eat a cup of blue blueberries are so good. They're so good.
1:44:10They're low sugar, low glycemic. They've got the fermentable fiber in it, and they have the polyphenols. Like, you just can't lose.
1:44:17Like, they have everything. They have everything. And they make me feel better when I when I like, it's affecting my mood as well.
1:44:24So I love to eat blueberries. Just don't eat them. Don't mix them with bananas.
1:44:28Bananas have a compound in them that break down polyphenols, so you won't it won't be as effective, which is funny because, like, nearly every smoothie place, like, on the planet, when you get a blueberry smoothie, it's, like, got a banana in it.
1:44:41So So blueberries make you smarter? Yes. Bananas make you dumber, or they cancel it out?
1:44:46They just they they break down the polyphenols, so they're not making you they're not working as good. Right. There's yeah.
1:44:51They're just not working as good. Because it's the poly you want the polyphenol to be intact. You don't want it to be broken down because then it's not gonna work.
1:44:58But it's the polyphenol that's activating those genetic pathways. It it activates one in the brain called brain derived neurotrophic factor, BDNF, the same thing that exercise increases, particularly vigorous intensity exercise.
1:45:09And so, you know, BDNF is essentially, it's doing so much. One, it's causing new neurons to grow in your hippocampus, the part of your brain involved in learning and memory.
1:45:20It's involved in something called neuroplasticity. So neuroplasticity is very high when you're younger, and it goes down as you get older.
1:45:29And it's essentially the ability of your brain to adapt to a changing environment. And, you know, changing environments are happening when we think about changing environments, we're probably thinking about, yeah, I mean, like, you know, now we're in this it's very different than it was ten years ago.
1:45:44And yes, that's a changing environment, but also, like, day to day. Like, our biology inside of what's going on, Sometimes you eat that donut. There's an environmental change in the brain.
1:45:53Your brain has to adapt to it, right? And so it's very like, it's involved in that. It's involved in learning, in memory, in synapse formation, in long term potenti everything involved in cognition.
1:46:04So the fact that blueberries can increase that, like a cup of blueberries, is pretty, I would say, powerful.
1:46:12It's pretty powerful. Exercise does it too, but you've to put in the work. Are there any foods that reliably boost your testosterone?
1:46:20Foods that boost testosterone. Yes. So I would say at the top of the list would be oysters or shellfish, foods that are high in zinc.
1:46:34Zinc is required to make testosterone. Only about 15% of the population doesn't get enough zinc, so it's not like half the population, but it's enough.
1:46:46I mean, have been studies showing that, for example, men that do have low zinc to start with when they supplement with like thirty or forty grams of zinc a day for a couple of weeks, they can double their testosterone levels.
1:46:58So it's not, if you're already getting enough zinc, you know, maybe it's not going to make the hugest effect, but that would be a food. Also keep in mind, you don't want to like mega dose zinc.
1:47:06When you start to get over like forty milligrams a day, it disrupts the zinc copper ratio, and you can deplete copper, and that is not good.
1:47:16So you don't want to, like, megadose on zinc every day because you want to make sure you're having the right amount. You want to make sure it's not depleting your zinc. So it's also important to keep in mind.
1:47:25I would say another food that might increase testosterone would be fatty, oily fish, like salmon mackerel, because it has vitamin D in it.
1:47:37But even better would be supplementing with vitamin D, because there's not, I wouldn't say enough of it in the fish, but you asked me about foods. So vitamin D is also very important. Vitamin D gets converted into a steroid hormone, like testosterone, estrogen, or steroid hormones.
1:47:51Vitamin D also gets converted into one of those, so it's very important for many different biological processes. It's regulating over 1,000 genes. Some of those genes are involved in testosterone production.
1:48:00So if you're not getting enough vitamin D, you're not going to be making testosterone efficiently. And there are also studies showing that men that are vitamin D deficient, when they supplement with vitamin D, they can raise their testosterone levels to a higher level.
1:48:13I I don't remember off the top of my head the number. So that would be another consideration. And then I would also add in that for foods, I would say that dark leafy greens because or almonds or oats, anything that has a lot of magnesium, magnesium, half the population, US population doesn't get enough magnesium.
1:48:33Magnesium is required for those vitamin D dependent enzymes to make vitamin D into their steroid hormone.
1:48:41So what happens is this cascading effect. If you don't have enough magnesium, but you're taking vitamin D, you're not going to be converting that D3 into the hormone, the vitamin D hormone, without the magnesium.
1:48:51It's not going be doing it efficiently. So you need both. And so magnesium is something that's found in dark leafy greens because magnesium is at the center of a chlorophyll molecule.
1:49:01Chlorophyll plants their green color. So it's kind of an easy way to think about magnesium, and that's why are not getting enough magnesium because nobody's eating directly for greens anymore.
1:49:09No one's eating that. Another food, I would say I would say do not go low fat, and actually, like, eating a nice a nice amount of saturated fat is good because saturated fat is a precursor to make cholesterol in the body, and cholesterol is needed to make steroid hormones, including testosterone.
1:49:31So a good, I would say a good kind of saturated fat, if you can tolerate it, and you're not lactose intolerant, would be whole fat yogurt, really good source, because you're getting also probiotics in there. It's good for the gut.
1:49:45Cheese is another one. Cheese has a food matrix. In fact, there's studies that have compared cheese to butter, which is also a saturated fat, and cheese does not raise LDL like butter does because it has a food matrix.
1:49:58Yet again, that food matrix is very important. When you remove it, it's processing foods a bit, and so it's it's important to have that food matrix. And so I think that would be another food that would be important to consume, would be fat and particularly saturated fat.
1:50:16I guess when we think about the eighty twenty here of, like, cognitive function and living a long time, Would you say it's food 80%, exercise 20?
1:50:31And then when you think of testosterone, is that also food 80%, exercise 20%?
1:50:38I would say no. That's incorrect. I would say I would say that when it comes to cognition, preserving cognition, and also aging well and and and lowering all cause mortality and mortality from cancer, cardiovascular disease, neurodegenerative disease, like every disease.
1:50:55Exercise is the king. It forgives a lot of sense, to be honest. It forgives even poor sleep.
1:50:59You can either studies showing that people that, you know, sleep fewer than seven hours a week, they have a higher all cause mortality than people sleeping normal seven to nine hours. Unless they exercise, they can get away with sleeping fewer than seven hours a week and still have the same mortality risk or rate as yeah.
1:51:15Exercise is so powerful. So powerful. Food is important.
1:51:20You can't You can't, you know, exercise your way out of obesity. It's very I mean, like, you don't burn a lot of calories.
1:51:28You're not exercising to burn calories. You're exercising for the adaptations in your heart, in your lungs, in your brain, right?
1:51:35I mean, you can reverse aging in your brain and heart. It's amazing. So you're exercising for those adaptations, but the food is important because obesity, and obesity does accelerate the aging process.
1:51:46It accelerates everything. You know, you're going to get diseases earlier for everything, right?
1:51:51So I think they're both important. I don't know that I would say food is 80, and exercise 20, though. I think I think it's more like I think yeah.
1:52:00It's it's more like fifty fifty fifty forty sixty exercise being the most important. Really?
1:52:06Yeah. Yeah.
1:52:08And I I I guess I'm saying as well, maybe we should say deficiencies versus exercise.
1:52:14Like, would you say, Jack, supplement with these five supplements, or would you say, Jack, workout for forty five minutes?
1:52:21I would say workout is still the key.
1:52:26Yeah. Workout is it should be a part of your personal hygiene.
1:52:31It is it is, like, the most powerful thing that we you can do to improve the way you age and the way and your mood and your brain function. Everything.
1:52:41Like, yeah. It's There's nothing more powerful. You're never gonna pill it up.
1:52:46It's it's it's it's changing. I mean, there was one study, Mike Snyder's lab out of Stanford. You're changing, like, 500 different genes, like, just with one workout.
1:52:58And that's just genes. Like, your chain your heart, your lungs, I mean, so many things. Your muscles, your brain, everything's working, and everything's adapting.
1:53:06And it's it's really you know, you're getting blood flow to your eyes. It's improving eye health. You're getting blood flow to your brain.
1:53:12Like, all that stuff is happening. So I would say that exercise is really the most important and powerful thing you can do for anything.
1:53:20When it comes to testosterone, resistance training is important. You can increase testosterone by, you know, doing exercise, even even, like, a short bout of high intensity interval training workout.
1:53:31But I would say, ultimately, yeah, your foods are important there. You have to get the zinc, very important. Eating the fat, you to make cholesterol.
1:53:42Your body makes cholesterol, but you have to give it the precursors to make, and that's saturated fat. So you this whole low fat diet is good for you, like, that was a lie.
1:53:51Right. That was a lie. Big, big lie.
1:53:54Do you think fasted exercise is also a lie? Fasted exercise
1:53:59is nuanced. It depends. So it depends on how what type of exercise and how long the exercise is and what and what you're looking for.
1:54:07What's the output? So for example, if you're if you're wanting to have better adaptations in your mitochondria, those are the energy producing cells in most of your body, right?
1:54:17Sorry, energy producing organelles in the cells in most of your body. If you exercise fasted, you get better adaptations.
1:54:25It's going to happen more powerfully. But, you know, you're going to take a performance hit. So you can't, like, go for a run longer than an hour, and you're going to take a big performance hit.
1:54:37So I would say that, like, if you're doing a short twenty minute, thirty minute run, you could burn more fat and get better adaptation. Studies have shown this doing it fasted. If you're wanting to do weight training, you don't really necessarily want to fast.
1:54:51You'll probably get a performance hit. But, you know, if you are doing intermittent fasting and the only time you're working out in the morning is in the morning, if you can train, it's not a big deal.
1:55:00I would say you could just do like a little protein shake or something that's not like super high calorie. But I don't know that, you you know, if your goal is to lose more fat, you will you will burn more fat if you're if you're training while fasted, if you're particularly aerobic exercise.
1:55:15But, again, it's all nuance, and it depends on the outcome you're looking for. Right? One of big lies to exercise to lose weight and lose fat for sure.
1:55:23Yes. It is for building muscle and to feel good. It's exercise is for
1:55:30causing your lungs to, like, adapt better that your, like, VO two max and your cardio risk for your fitness improves. It's to make your heart, you know, not shrink and not get stiffer with age.
1:55:40It's to make your brain make more synapses and work better and protect against, you know, neurodegenerative disease. It's to make your muscles, you know, gain muscle mass and strength. It's so your immune system changes as you exercise.
1:55:52So you exercise because you are fundamentally changing your biology in a beneficial way to make you age better in every possible way and feel better in the now acutely.
1:56:05I mean, it doesn't get better than that. Like, it's like the best thing you could do for both right now. And there's no the trade off is good.
1:56:12Right? It's not like you most of the time, you're doing something, chewing your nicotine gum or taking a zen, and you're wanting to cognitively be sharp, there might be a trade off, right?
1:56:22With the exercise, the whole thing is like it's making you, it's actually improving cognition. It's been shown ten minutes of a short, intense workout improves cognition.
1:56:32It actually improved cognition by like 14% just after ten minutes.
1:56:38And you're getting the long term health benefits, right? So it's a win win. As far as exercise
1:56:44in your workouts that you prefer, you've talked about a protocol that reverses cardiac aging.
1:56:53What's a forty five minute workout you can do that'll make your heart twenty years younger over time?
1:57:01A forty five minute workout done maybe five to six times a week. Alright.
1:57:05Let's talk about this.
1:57:09You can reverse the aging of your heart, and it's it's very, very powerful. So there was a study done by Ben Levine at UT Southwest in Dallas, and he took 50 year olds that basically didn't go to the gym, didn't exercise, but they didn't have any disease.
1:57:23Put them on a pretty intense exercise workout program for two years, and this was compared to a placebo group, sham control group.
1:57:32These guys thought they were getting a treatment, so they were doing stretching, yoga.
1:57:37They did a little bit of resistance training, but enough to just make them think they were getting the active treatment. Placebo's very important because the placebo effect is very real.
1:57:45You can change your biology. So this two year program was progressive. It wasn't like starting out, day one, we're going to exercise five hours a week, even though you've never worked out.
1:57:54You can't do that. So it was progressive. They worked their way up after about six months.
1:57:58Most of these adults that were 50 years old were exercising about five hours a week. And the majority of this exercise, they were doing, like, thirty minutes of jogging a day.
1:58:10They were doing once or twice a week. They were doing a high intensity interval training workout called the Norwegian four by four.
1:58:18It's basically four minutes of going on a stationary cycle as hard as you can and maintain that pace for four minutes, so you're not going all out. And it depends on the person's fitness level, right?
1:58:30So like some people, they're as hard as they can go for four minutes and maintain is different, right, than another person's. But the point is they're pushing it throughout that four minutes.
1:58:38And then they rest for three minutes, and they repeat that four times. Rest and recover. So they're going very, very light.
1:58:44They're letting their heart rate come down. So they were doing that. They started out doing it one time a week, and then they went up to two times a week they were doing that.
1:58:52And they also did some resistance training. But by and large, a lot of their workouts were more in the intense. They were doing more vigorous intensity exercise.
1:58:59And after two years, the structure of their heart had reversed by twenty years.
1:59:07The aging of their heart had reversed by twenty years. So their 52 year old hearts look like 32 year old hearts in terms of the structure. And that's very important because as you age, your shrinks, and it gets stiffer with age, and that affects your cardiovascular disease risk.
1:59:22It also affects the ability for you to work out. So they were able to essentially reverse that aging by twenty years in just two years, and that's incredible.
1:59:30I'm pretty sure most of the people that did that program are still doing it because it's a very big motivator to hear that you reversed the aging of your heart by twenty years in just two years. And so I would say the workout protocol is essentially, you know, you want to be doing at least, you know, about thirty minutes of some kind of like cardiovascular aerobic exercise where you are, you're moving fast.
1:59:54So jogging is considered even moving fast, faster than walking, right? You're getting your heart rate up. Some In cases, you can be 70% max heart rate, maybe 80%, right, for thirty minutes, five times a week.
2:00:05And then in addition to that, you're doing at least one time a week, a more intense workout, a high intensity interval training workout, like a Norwegian four by four type of workout. One time a week, you said? Yeah.
2:00:15They started out they were doing one time a week, and they were also doing two. It was, like, mixed in. So I would say at least once a week would be good.
2:00:22If you could do twice a week, better. I do that kind of thing, you know, twice a week. That would be something to consider.
2:00:31And then they were doing some resistance training because you have to have your muscle mass and strength as well. But and that was, like, you know, pretty minimal. I think it was just twice a week they were doing doing some, like, thirty minute bout of resistance training, so, like, an hour an I hour a wanna ask about
2:00:47the like, it seems as though to me that everyone's chasing the next longevity trend.
2:00:55And a lot of people are missing the fundamentals. Don't get me wrong.
2:01:00But, like, I look at Brian Johnson's $2,000,000 protocol, peptides, cold plunges, red light therapy.
2:01:11If you could only do one thing to extend your lifespan,
2:01:15what would it be? It would be none of those, for sure. I guess outside of
2:01:20outside of exercise and eating right,
2:01:23what would it be? Oh, it would be it would be deliberate heat exposure. Sauna.
2:01:29Yeah. So cold plunging doesn't really have a lot of longevity benefits.
2:01:38It makes you feel good, increases norepinephrine. It may brown some of your fat if you stay in long enough. That could have a metabolic benefit, but really negligible when it comes to weight loss.
2:01:49So deliberate heat exposure from saunas, while it does transiently kill your sperm count, it's very beneficial for the heart and for the brain.
2:02:00So it's mimicking moderate intensity exercise, and it's additive with exercise. So there are studies showing that if you do exercise, aerobic exercise, and then add a sauna after that compared to just exercising alone, you improve your BO2 max even better.
2:02:16And a variety of other like blood pressure's improved even better, lipids are improved. So you're improving a lot of parameters involved in cardiovascular health by adding just fifteen minutes of a hot sauna after your aerobic exercise.
2:02:29And then there are also studies showing that adding it after a resistance training workout seems to also increase proteins in the muscle that are involved in anabolic signaling.
2:02:40So that study didn't directly measure like lean body mass or muscle mass, but they measured, like, proteins that are known to be involved in increasing muscle hypertrophy. And so and then there's just so much evidence coming out of Finland where, know, a lot of the sauna researchers are doing research because, saunas are ubiquitous in Finland.
2:02:57Almost everyone has one at home. And there's also public saunas that are very accessible for people. Just studies showing that using the sauna four to seven times a week lowers the risk of sudden cardiac death by like sixty three percent.
2:03:13People that use it four to seven times a week have a fifty percent lower cardiovascular related mortality, a forty percent lower all cause mortality, sixty six percent lower chance of dementia compared to people using it one time a week. I mean, and then there's all these intervention studies that have come in and said, hey, yeah, and the biomarkers are also changing in the right direction.
2:03:30As I mentioned, VO2 max is going up. Cardiorespiratory fitness is one of the best markers for longevity. People that have the highest cardiorespiratory fitness have a five year increased life expectancy compared to people with a low cardiorespiratory fitness.
2:03:43And on top of that, if you have a high cardiorespiratory fitness, having an elite one still gives you a twenty percent lower all cause mortality compared to those with the high. So there's really like, you just there doesn't seem to be a limit.
2:03:56Right? Does it boost HGH? Yes.
2:03:59Yeah. So, again, it is a type of stress.
2:04:02Like, exercise stresses the body. Thermal stress is a type of stress, particularly heat stress. And so doing a sauna, and depending on like the protocol, so the more stressful it is, the more growth hormone boosting effect you'll get.
2:04:17So for example, if you go in the sauna for like, you know, twenty minutes, get out, rest for five minutes, and then go back in for another twenty minutes, like, that's gonna boost it even more than just doing it once.
2:04:28Right? So there are are studies that have pushed the limits on that. Like, they're, like, repeating, repeating, repeating bouts of it, and, like, you can get up to, like, a sixfold increase.
2:04:37But that's, like, really I wouldn't wouldn't go there. That's a lot of stress, thermal stress from the sauna. They were doing it over and over and over again on the same day.
2:04:44There's also
2:04:46this is what a friend told me. I've been to Finland, and it seemed to be the case, just at least anecdotally. There's a lot of bald guys or guys with male pattern baldness in Finland.
2:04:55And some people argue it's because of the increase in the HGH from the sauna use. Like, does that?
2:05:03I don't know. That's weird. That doesn't I Does HGH cause baldness?
2:05:06I don't know anything about that. I have no I have and nothing in my brain is connecting growth hormone to baldness,
2:05:14but I've never looked into that. There's also things about, like, jujitsu fighters also have a higher rate of baldness.
2:05:22And then just people with higher testosterone in general, higher HGH levels, like, lead to baldness. And, I mean, that scares me a bit, but at the same time, it's just like, I think people with high testosterone are doing jujitsu.
2:05:34Like, it's kind of one of those correlative causal things. Yeah. And, also, there's also things to consider.
2:05:39Like, in Finland, it's a very, you know, genetically contained population.
2:05:45Right? And they have certain genes. Like, in Finland, they have a very high level of APOE four alleles, so they have a high, you know, risk of cardiovascular disease and Alzheimer's disease, even though they have a lot of do a of sauna use there.
2:05:57So there could be some other gene that there is related to male pattern baldness that they have. Like, that's also a consideration. These sorts of studies, it's too like, well, it could be a million other things as well.
2:06:10Well, you think there's very few trade offs at the end of the day with the SANGA? I think the biggest trade off is the sperm, and and it and it but it's completely reversible.
2:06:20Like, studies have shown that, that, you know, it's it's, like, it's totally reversible. So if you are wanting to conceive, like, have to stop doing the sauna or, like, hot tubs, like, months before, at least three months before.
2:06:34It's just necessary. But if you're not, then, you know or if you've already had kids, you know, it's not it's not a really big issue.
2:06:42It doesn't lower testosterone. Sonos don't lower. There's there's no shown to boost it?
2:06:48Not really. Yeah. Not really.
2:06:50Okay. Yeah. Growth hormone, yes.
2:06:53I'm
2:06:54curious too with some of these different protocols.
2:06:58Like, you've been on Joe Rogan's podcast, you said 10 times. You've been on Chris Williamson's show, Steven Partlett's show. When these guys text you after you're done filming, like, what's a common question they ask you?
2:07:13Or, like, what are some things that they're looking into and you're like, oh, maybe, like, this is good. This is good. Are you sending them stuff?
2:07:18That kind of I mean, I would say over the years, it's been a variety of things. Everything from sauna,
2:07:23heat exposure to cold exposure, does cold exposure blunt, you know, muscle adaptations, exercise adaptations? Yes.
2:07:31It does. Particularly, like, muscle hypertrophy if you do it around resistance training. Questions about improving cognitive function.
2:07:42Like, what are some things I can do, you know, to to to make myself smarter that's not gonna, like, have a trade off, a bad trade off? Is carnivore diet really good long term?
2:07:53Is it healthy long term? My conclusion was we don't really know.
2:07:57I don't think so, but that's a that's a another question that's definitely come around.
2:08:04What do you think of Brian Johnson's diet?
2:08:07His diet? Mhmm.
2:08:09He's, like, mostly vegetarian. Right? Right.
2:08:12Yeah. I mean, I I think that it's hard to do it right.
2:08:17If you are obsessed like he is and are really probably fastidious about making sure you're getting the right amounts of all the amino acids, you know, then it might work.
2:08:28I mean, there's now enough evidence showing that, like, vegetarians and vegans can gain enough muscle mass. Lot of times, they have to end up supplementing. But I think I think it's, like, easier to just eat some, you know, animal protein,
2:08:44you know, some meat. Most people need a balanced diet, not strictly carnivore, strictly vegetarian, not strictly just supplements.
2:08:53That makes sense to me. Yeah. I I tried I tried vegetarian diet
2:08:57when I was actually vegan. I tried that, like, I don't know how it was, like, a long time ago. I lasted, like, I don't know how many months, maybe, like, five months, less than six months.
2:09:08I my hair was, like, falling out. My hair my hair was falling out, and and I've always had, like, really thick hair, and I like having that thick hair. And I just was like, I'm done.
2:09:18I'm done. And I was I was experimenting with it because I was worried about cancer and, like, you know, IGF-one and all that stuff.
2:09:27And then I just, like, dove deep into it and realized that the problem isn't the meat consumption. The problem are the other habits that go along with it. Because, yes, you can, if you're eating a lot of animal protein, have a lot you can increase something called IGF-one, which is increased in response to protein intake, particularly protein that is from animals.
2:09:48IGF-one will allow cancer cells to grow, grow even when a die signal is around. So it's like one of those things like obesity. Obesity increases IGF-one as well.
2:09:58But if you are not obese, if you are exercising, if you're not drinking excessive alcohol, if you're not smoking, if you have, if you don't have any of these considered, like, unhealthy lifestyle factors, then you have the same cancer incidence as vegetarians.
2:10:14You have the same all cause mortality as vegetarians. And for me, realizing that was like, oh, thank God I could eat meat.
2:10:21You know? Because you see a lot of these studies that kind of scare you, and they go, eating meat's like smoking, you know, four packs of cigarettes a day, I don't or four packs a week or whatever.
2:10:31Like, it's something where it's like it's like as bad as smoking. And I know I've talked about omega three in that case, but not having enough omega three, but, like, in this incidence, it was very clear that was only the case if people were had one of those unhealthy lifestyle factors along with eating meat.
2:10:50So they were obese, They were smoking. They were doing drinking excessive alcohol. Or they were totally sedentary.
2:10:55Like, you don't want to be like a couch potato and just eating carnivore diet. Right. You don't.
2:11:00It seems like everything is poison. And to reiterate the point that we agreed on earlier, just about consuming stuff that might have tiny bits of poison in it, making yourself more resilient overall.
2:11:15As far as making yourself more resilient, more able to not get sick, live longer, better cognition, what is the one deficiency women have that men usually don't?
2:11:32Oh, well, would obviously be iron. I mean, and that is it is a problem.
2:11:38I mean, your immune you need you need iron. Your red blood cells need iron. I would say females that are working out even have more of a deficiency because you do lose more iron also through, like, hemolysis and stuff.
2:11:54Like, red blood cells will and lyse, and so you lose more iron that way. Iron's important for immune function for the brain.
2:12:03It's really important for the brain. Myelin, making myelin. Myelin is the sort of white, fatty substance that coats axons, so it's really important for electrical signals to go fast, right, so processing speed.
2:12:13So iron would be one. And in fact, iron would be something that women should really focus on.
2:12:20Of course, eating red meat is the best dietary source of iron. And not a lot of women are eating enough red meat, I think, particularly the premenopausal women.
2:12:30Once you hit menopause, then your iron like, it's not a concern anymore. You're kinda like in the in the dude category. Right?
2:12:36Like, you don't need to be concerned about supplementing with iron or, you know, really trying to focus on getting enough iron from your diet. So dumb male question.
2:12:46Is it simply because women don't eat the same amount of meat that men do plus, like,
2:12:53period would make you low in iron? That's Menstruation is the big reason for it. Yeah.
2:12:57You're losing a lot of iron each month that, you know, men are not it's not happening to men, and it's not happening to women that are in menopause. So, like, that category of women, either iron's not a problem for them.
2:13:10They're not, like, deficient in iron. They're the same as men because they're not menstruating. So the biggest cause of iron deficiency in women is menstruation, and they're not realizing it because they're not getting iron tested every month, And so they're just eating normal.
2:13:24And really, what they should be doing is during particularly during that time, is they should be eating a lot of red meat during that week, if not supplementing. I supplement.
2:13:33That's fascinating that, like, you would assume that men need more meat for some reason and women would need more fruits, but it seems like it's complete opposite. It is. And in fact, men should not supplement with iron.
2:13:43And in fact, that's, like,
2:13:46a really bad thing because when you when you are someone that has enough iron and you're supplementing with iron, you can free iron is very reactive. It's it's like a reactive oxygen species thing, so it's it's damaging things, and it can get in the brain.
2:14:00And, like, free iron is associated with Alzheimer's disease, so, like, you don't wanna be just all willy nilly, like, dosing the iron. It can be it can be harmful, particularly, like, again, in men and postmenopausal women that aren't losing a lot of iron through blood. Now, you know, some men even, like, have there's a very, I would say, pretty common gene variation hemochromatosis, where they basically are more susceptible to iron overload, so you're, like, you're actually getting more iron.
2:14:30And people with that sometimes even have to donate blood to, like, get rid of the iron. And, again, like, unless you did a genetic test or get your iron levels measured, you wouldn't really know you have that, but it is pretty common. I mean, I've seen quite a few people have that.
2:14:48This might be too political, so I'll cut it out if you'd like me to. But, like, do you think birth control is affecting women's iron levels?
2:14:57Like, why is why are women struggling with iron so much these days?
2:15:02I mean, I don't I know I know that oral cons are you talking about oral contraceptive? Are you talking about, like, IUDs or just all forms of I guess, typically, like, oral Yeah. When I hear the word birth control, I think about oral contraceptive.
2:15:15Yeah. So I know there are god. It's been so long since I've looked into that in terms of, like, it it affecting some vitamin levels.
2:15:24I know b six, I think, it also affects. Like like like, it was b six, I think, that got was lower somehow.
2:15:32I don't remember exactly how. It's been so long since I've read that. I don't remember how it affected iron.
2:15:37But, you know, the thing is is that it also can affect, like, hormones too.
2:15:44Right? Like, there there are some long term consequences with with oral contraceptives.
2:15:52I wanted to ask you about placebo. How does taking a daily multivitamin make you smarter?
2:15:59Is it just placebo?
2:16:01No. It's not. In fact, it's been compared to placebo.
2:16:05So I think ten years ago, this big study came out, and it was talking about how multivitamins are useless.
2:16:15Not only are they useless, they're harmful, and nobody should be taking them, and it's just expensive urine. And back then I was fighting those studies, and I was fighting them, fighting them, fighting them.
2:16:28And then ten years come around full circle now, there's large, randomized controlled trials comparing multivitamin use to a placebo.
2:16:37And what do we know? We know, well, in older adults that are given a multivitamin, it was actually a standard Centrum Silver multivitamin, like the most cheap available multivitamin that you find in any store.
2:16:50They were given it for three years. And after that three years, a battery of tests were done on cognitive function, and also like things were looked at in the brain, looking at brain aging. And it turns out after taking that multivitamin for three years, they had lowered their global brain aging by 2.1 years compared to those given the placebo.
2:17:11And they had lowered episodic brain aging. So episodic memory is the kind of memory that's involved in remembering experiences, you know, like experiences that you're having.
2:17:22And so they lowered this episodic brain aging by almost five years. It was four point nine years compared to placebo. And these were three large randomized controlled trials that were done.
2:17:32They're called the COSMO studies. Well, just recently, like a couple of months ago, another arm of this COSMO studies came out looking at multivitamins. This was a two year study, so individuals were given the multivitamin for two years, and then or a placebo, and they looked at biological age.
2:17:52So they looked at these epigenetic aging tests and found that taking the multivitamin, essentially it slowed epigenetic aging by about 5.7 months.
2:18:04And you might go, well, doesn't sound like a lot, like I don't care about But you have to realize that that was two years it did that. And so you take that vitamin for two years, and then two more, and then two more, and then two more, and two more, and two. It adds up.
2:18:16That five point seven months is gonna keep going, right, doubling double. Right? You're So you age 25% slower.
2:18:22Slower. Yeah. Exactly.
2:18:23And so I think that, you know, it's globally affecting aging, and it's also affecting the aging of the brain. And why is that? Well, because multivitamins are filling the nutrient gaps, the micronutrient, the vitamin and mineral gaps that we're not getting from our diet.
2:18:39And that was the whole point that I'd argued ten years ago, talked about why, you know, what these vitamins and minerals are doing in the body and how they're affecting aging and how we're not getting enough of them from our diet.
2:18:51And it makes sense that you would, you know, get benefits by taking a vitamin and mineral supplement to fill those gaps. And so I think that I feel vindicated in a way as well, but it's the easiest thing that you can do to protect your brain and to help yourself age, right, I mean, is take a multivitamin.
2:19:10I have everyone in my family taking it, like, from my kid to, like, my parents. Right? Like, everyone's taking a multivitamin because nobody can eat the perfect diet.
2:19:18It's really hard. It's really hard.
2:19:21Another one that you were the first person I ever heard talk about this is that you said something along the lines of you said creatine can actually make you smarter, and that people aren't taking enough creatine for it to be effective.
2:19:36Can you tell me a little bit about that? Yeah. I became really interested in creatine
2:19:42a few years ago when I started getting serious about resistance training. And so I was looking into the studies and said, okay, what dose do I need to take For muscle, right?
2:19:52I wanted to basically what creatine is doing. So creatine is stored as phosphate creatine.
2:19:58It basically helps your body make energy and replace the energy quicker, right? So you're making energy quicker.
2:20:06And so when you're working out, you're using a lot of energy, and so you want to replace that energy quick, right? And so what creatine does is it increases your exercise volume so you can do more work.
2:20:17It's not growing your muscles bigger like protein does, right? It's just you can do more work, and that work that you're doing can then increase your muscle mass and strength, right? And so it turns out that every study that I came across, it was like five grams a day was really essential for, that was like the limit for muscle.
2:20:35Like once you reach that five grams, over the course of about three to four weeks, you saturate your muscles. Now you might remember some of these studies back in the day.
2:20:43They do these loading studies. They load you up at twenty grams, and then they give you the five. Because the studies aren't going to be three to four weeks long.
2:20:51But if you're just a normal everyday person taking five grams a day, and you've been doing that for three to four weeks, your muscles are saturated, meaning like they've gotten all they can take in. And so that's where I was at.
2:21:03I was taking five grams a day. And then I started to really come across these studies that would, you know, talk about creatine going into the brain. Creatine seems to be helping with, you know, effect you know, sleep deprivation.
2:21:16And then it was like, what is going on? So I started to dive into this research, and then I had Doctor. Darren Cando on my podcast.
2:21:21He's a pretty great researcher at the University of Regina in Canada. And I like dove in and it was very clear that creatine is not only important for energy, you know, replacing energy in the muscles, it's doing it in other tissues as well, including the brain.
2:21:40And so what studies have found is that muscles are very greedy, and when you take in five grams, that five grams is predominantly going into your muscle, particularly if you're working out, right?
2:21:51If you're not working out, the creatine, you know, it's not really going to make your muscles bigger. Once you get up to ten grams, there was a study out of Germany showing that ten grams, now you start to get spillover into the brain because your muscles are satisfied.
2:22:04It's starting to get into the brain. The study in Germany found that like creatine levels were increasing in the brain after supplementing with ten grams.
2:22:12And then other studies started to come out looking at when the brain is stressed, when it's under stress, like sleep deprivation.
2:22:21So people that were deprived of sleep for twenty four hours, when they were supplementing with a high dose of creatine. When I say high dose, it was based on their weight, but ultimately it was somewhere between twenty to twenty five grams that they took.
2:22:34They were able to not only, you know, perform better than they would have, you know, if they were sleep deprived, so they also were performing better than their baseline level before they were sleep deprived, which was crazy.
2:22:48It was a very small study. Nonetheless, other studies have come out looking at other types of stress on the brain, so one being dementia, mild cognitive decline.
2:22:57Those people that are given ten or even twenty grams a day for a period of time, I don't remember, a few weeks, they also perform better on cognitive tests as well. So other studies, again, showing if you're stressing the brain and there's another sleep deprivation study, but ultimately, the take home here is that if your brain is stressed, it needs more creatine, and giving it more creatine because the energy, right?
2:23:24Stress is very energy consuming. And so you want to be able to replace that energy quicker. You make creatine in your brain, but you're only making like one to two grams.
2:23:32And when you're stressed, like, you're going to need more than that, right? Same goes when you're stressing your muscles with force, with work, working out. You need to make more energy.
2:23:41My rationale is, like, we live in a world now where there's lots of ways to stress your brain. There's financial stress, emotional stress, relationship stress, I mean, the work stress, right?
2:23:52I mean, there's sleep deprivation, all that stuff.
2:23:57So I sort of, and this is totally my extrapolation of the data that actually are stressing the brain.
2:24:06I feel like my brain's constantly being stressed all the time, like with work, with learning. I mean, it's very cognitive demand when you're trying to learn a bunch of science.
2:24:15Being a mom, being a wife, like there's a lot of things going on, right? And traveling and sleep. So my baseline now for creatine is 10 because I want it to get into the brain.
2:24:27And it could be totally placebo, but I feel the ten grams, I don't get that energy slump, like, in the afternoon, later part of the day that I used to get.
2:24:38Like, I'm just going even keel throughout the day. And I if I don't have my ten grams, I notice it, it could be placebo, where I'm like, I didn't get that, you know, who knows?
2:24:47It's working. It's working. Right?
2:24:49And then so it also you tried a higher dosage than ten? Yeah. And so when I travel and I am or or if I don't get enough sleep.
2:24:57When I'm traveling, I usually don't get enough When I'm going to other time zones, definitely don't get enough sleep. I go up to twenty, sometimes even twenty five grams.
2:25:06And, like, I went to China recently, completely different part of the world.
2:25:11Right? And I had to, like, the next day, the next morning after I arrived in the evening, and then the next day, I had to give a talk.
2:25:17I mean, you gotta be on game. You gotta be ready. Right?
2:25:21And so I did I did my twenty grams, and it seems to help with my jet lag and help me, like, be able to be mentally, you know, cognizant and functioning peak.
2:25:31Again, it could be placebo where I'm thinking I'm just gonna get it, and that's fine because creatine is pretty safe. And I don't do twenty grams every day.
2:25:39I do it in certain situations. So, yes, I do go above ten grams. My baseline is usually ten, and there's only certain scenarios, like, I'm sleep deprived or I'm traveling when I go up to more than that.
2:25:51But it it seems to work for me. And, you know, it's, like I said, safe, and I feel like if it's placebo, it's fine.
2:25:59I don't think it's placebo, but I'm just I'm just saying that it could be. Since we're close to the end of the interview, I
2:26:06do wanna ask you because, like, my sister is a researcher, neuropharmacology, neuroscience.
2:26:14I am I've had a lot of people on this podcast that are super of the scientific mind than some people that are super, like, spiritual in essence, I guess, if you wanna divide those two groups a bit.
2:26:26Like, what is your take on just, like, what is placebo? How important is it?
2:26:34Like, how do you think about some of this stuff spiritually? Do you consider that? Just kind of open the floor to you on just, like, your takes on like, is it all really just let me look at the data, or is there other factors that you consider?
2:26:49Yeah. I think that there's I do look at evidence for sure.
2:26:55But the mind is very powerful, and there is enough evidence now showing that, where placebo effect is a very real thing.
2:27:05You can change your immune system, you can make dopamine, produce dopamine, that changes your immune system. Immune system changes can change a lot of other things going on in the body that are beneficial, and so you can really have a beneficial effect if you believe something is going to be positive.
2:27:22And some people are very there's even genes that are associated with the placebo effect. There are people that have those rose colored glasses on, they see the positive in things. They're more able to experience that placebo effect, and it does change your biology.
2:27:37There's also something called the nocebo effect, which is the opposite of the placebo effect. And there have been studies showing that as real phenomena as well.
2:27:44And that is where you think something negative is going to happen to you. And you can actually make it happen. You can increase pain.
2:27:50You can, like, those things can happen. And there are genes also associated with that. And that would be the pessimistic kind of personality, right?
2:27:57So if you think you have a gluten sensitivity, and you're given a food that you think has gluten in it but it doesn't, you can make yourself have pain, distension, bloating, even though there's no gluten in it, right?
2:28:11It's a very real phenomenon, there's studies on it. When it comes to spirituality, I mean, that's a whole other question versus placebo.
2:28:23And you know, as someone, I was raised Catholic, went to Catholic school for, gosh, like, I mean, all through elementary and all through high school, right?
2:28:31And kind of drifted away, became very analytical. And, you know, there are moments of like, I spent a lot of time in graduate school looking at mitochondria under electron microscopes at the very, like, fundamental level, looking at them under, you know, microscopes and how just learning everything I could about them and just, like, all the proteins that are made.
2:28:58And the more I started to learn about it, it's like, this is, like, crazy system. And then you start to look how, like, you know, other animals have similar things, like, that there's this common template. And, you know, there are moments where, like, I remember just going, this this is, like, so complicated.
2:29:14Like, it can't be random. It can't be random. But it wasn't until I became a mom that I really kind of found God again.
2:29:22And for me, you know, for a lot of people, spirituality can be a lot of things. It can be God, it can be another type of experience.
2:29:31But I don't know if that's the question you were asking me, but it is. I think, you know, finding, finding, I think spirituality and, you know, like, can think maybe like, God did this for me.
2:29:44Like, that's something people do think. And I think that can be related to a placebo effect as well, where you're they can be related.
2:29:55Think when you think this powerful thing is happening to you, and you think it's good, you can make it happen. And maybe that's how it's supposed to be. Like, I don't know.
2:30:03It's pretty awesome, I think. But yeah, back to the spirituality thing.
2:30:08I think that for me, the more I learn and the more I observe and know about the complexity of the human body, I go back to to God.
2:30:20And that for me is my my spirituality.
2:30:24I think that was great. It it was fascinating to me because as you were talking about the fruit and just, like, how many, like, genes fruit unlocks, I don't know if that's the right term, but, like, I was like, wow.
2:30:36This sounds way more complex and intelligent than just like a pill that someone would take. You know? Like, just what's in an apple.
2:30:44You know?
2:30:45It's it's really crazy when you start like, the more you start to learn about it, you you realize, like, you mean vitamin D that we make from the sun has like, that in and of itself have this sequence of DNA that only recognizes vitamin D, well, the hormone that vitamin D gets converted into, right?
2:31:04And it's very, it's just like, wow, it's a very specific sequence of DNA that, you know, all these different genes get turned on by that one vitamin D steroid hormone. And or, again, you you this food that you take in, it's like, wow.
2:31:19This, like, pathway gets activated, and it's a very specific sequence of it's, like, very it's just so crazy.
2:31:26Yeah. And it to me, it's just like, wow. How can this all be, like, by chance?
2:31:30You know?
2:31:31You said that when you had your son, you turned toward God Mhmm. A little bit.
2:31:37When you think about everything with screens, sleep, microplastics, hormones, pesticides, What scares you the most about the next ten years for young men?
2:31:52Well, I think I'm I'm scared of the endocrine disrupting chemicals and their effects on hormones. And, you know, particularly during development, I think it's a very sensitive time.
2:32:04I'm I'm concerned about the effect on fertility, but I'm also very concerned about screens and their effects on mental health.
2:32:12And it's it's I think it's kinda like the new smoking. I mean, like, kids, it's really, really bad.
2:32:21The social media screen time, I mean, it's like this it's almost like the ultra processed foods, you know, where it's like hyper stimulating.
2:32:29You know, we have these hyperpalatable foods that taste really good, and they're, like, activating all these reward pathways. And, you know, I mean, like, they're habit forming and addictive in in ways that we don't even understand. And the same goes with these screens.
2:32:41I mean, like, they're, like they're so addicting, and they're stimulating things. And it it's it's kind of scary for many reasons.
2:32:49One, I think, you know, socialization and like being able to talk to people, and like if you see like young people now, they're always on their phone, always, you know, even when they're with their friends.
2:33:02They'll be sitting there with their friends. Like, I remember like when I would go to the mall with my friends, like, we were talking. We were talking.
2:33:09We were making up games and playing. And, like, now you go to the mall, like, when I go shopping and I see these young adolescents, they're all on, like they're so they're all on social media, whether it's TikTok or Instagram.
2:33:20I don't know what it is. But they're, like, just sitting there in a group not even talking to each other. And that's that's a little concerning to me.
2:33:27And then there's the problem with, like, comparison and social comparison and depression and all these things are now showing up. And, like, particularly girls, adolescent girls are very prone to it.
2:33:36But there's studies showing that if you can delay a phone, like a child from having a phone, the longer you wait, the better they perform cognitively later in life, the better emotionally stable they are, less depression they have.
2:33:52I There's so many different benefits, mental health benefits. So those are the two things that I think I think about the most. But I also think about how resilient humans are, going back to that.
2:34:01I feel like we are really resilient. We do adapt. And I think we will I like to have that optimistic sort of look on, well, we'll find a way.
2:34:09You know? We're gonna I think we'll figure it out. Whether or not it's like like I talked about these, like, phones that a lot of the moms are doing.
2:34:16And, you know, going back to, like, the old days where we would talk on a phone, and it was in the kitchen so the parents could hear. And you were talking to people.
2:34:26It wasn't like a screen, and all the social problems that can happen aren't exacerbated because you're looking at someone's social life on a screen. Right?
2:34:36And also, you're, like, more nice to people. Like, it's so easy to be mean to people when you're making a comment, you don't see them. You don't know that they're a real person.
2:34:43You don't, like, have empathy. Like, it's so it's hard. Most people, like, when they, like, look into the eyes of someone else, like, I'm looking at you right now.
2:34:52I feel empathy. Right? Like, I'm trying to imagine how you feel.
2:34:55And and you just don't get that feeling when you're looking at a screen. Right?
2:35:00Even if it's someone you know when you're looking at a video or whatever, like, you don't feel that empathy. You don't you don't relate to them. Right?
2:35:08And so I feel like that's another thing that
2:35:13concerns me too, is just, like, like, not like, losing empathy. It's just like we're all interacting with the with the screen. Right?
2:35:20And not And we see all this negativity as well, and that almost trains our behavior. It's like, oh, this is how people treat each other. You know?
2:35:26Tons of hate comments. Like, this is normalized.
2:35:29Right. And I mean, that's I mean, the whole then there's a whole other problem with the algorithm, that nasty algorithm. Right?
2:35:35Where it's like, of course, a company that has a site that, you know, social media or whatever the site is, they want to keep you on it. Right? I mean, that's their that's their goal.
2:35:45So algorithms are gonna make it where it's going be something sensational. Usually, things that are sensational are things that are negative, unfortunately. So that, again, polarizing.
2:35:56And I do feel like we live in a lot more polarizing world than when I was a kid. Like, I don't remember people having so much animosity towards each other for their different beliefs and stuff, because people do have different beliefs.
2:36:10Like, and I think that's okay as long as you're not, like, wanting to harm someone. You know? I mean, it's okay to have different political views, and and it doesn't feel like it's okay now in this in this world.
2:36:22Like, it's it's it's, I think, a big byproduct of our digital world that we live in.
2:36:29Right? Our our digital I don't even know what to call it, but it's like we've, like, we, like, have these digital, like, lives now.
2:36:36Right? Like, especially us. Like, we're on, you know, we're on social media and YouTube, and it's part of our business, but, you know, everyone else is also on there.
2:36:46And so, like, they have their lives in real life, and then they have their digital lives. So I just think that that digital life has really polarized a lot of things. And it's unfortunate because happiness is also really important for your well-being today, tomorrow, but also for your well-being and your longevity and the way you age later in life.
2:37:08And I think we should probably focus a lot more on how to be happy and how to appreciate the little things in life and the things that we do that maybe aren't that rewarding but still important, and to appreciate the people that are in our lives that are our friends, our family, and just knowing that at the end of the day, life goes on.
2:37:31Life goes fast. Any parent knows that because you watch your kid. Like, we all look the same for like a while.
2:37:36But your kid, they change rapidly year to year. And so it really is eye opening as a parent. You start to see how quick life goes.
2:37:44And everyone says, oh, it goes so quick. You've probably even heard that even though you're not a parent. And so you start to realize that life goes quick, and these friendships, if I don't put in effort, if I don't put work in, they're going to go away.
2:37:58And when you get old, you don't want to be alone. That's the worst thing.
2:38:03And so having social relationships and being happy is a very important part of all the things that we've been talking about today, like living a healthy life. And that's something we didn't talk about. I do think it's important to realize you know, there's all these studies of the blue zones and the populations of people that live the longest, and they have these great social networks and these great social connections, and they're out, you know, with their relatives and with their friends, and that is the opposite of being on a screen.
2:38:29And we're going in that opposite direction. And I think that, you know, especially for gen gen z and, like, younger people that are have grown up with it, like, literally, like, you've grown up with this digital life. Right?
2:38:38Look at the phones and social media and that whole that whole world. I think it's important to to to realize that the dopamine that you feel when you look into someone's eyes, like, the the endorphins, the touch, like, holding hands, like like, these are important feelings, and they're important things for humans.
2:38:59And and so we should try to take time to to have relationships in real life and do things with people and put our phones away and enjoy the time with them because there will come a day when you'll look back and you don't wanna regret. Right?
2:39:13Like, I spent so much time worrying about this social media things and all that stuff, and I neglected the the people that are are the most meaningful and that I cared about and that cared about me. Right? So, anyways, that was kind of a sidetrack rant, but I do think it's important just for young people to to kind of realize that I think that screen time, as we call it, you know, the social media life, it's it's it's really kind of toxic.
2:39:42I say that with, like, a business that, like, is like, relies on it. But I think that I honestly think that I would love people to get off take take breaks and get off social media and get off their screens as much as possible and and try to interact with, like, your friends and your family, like, experiences.
2:39:59There's nothing more rewarding and nothing that's gonna make you happier than experiences with the people that you love. Right?
2:40:06So
2:40:07I think we'll definitely see a big divide in society of people that kind of go toward more what you're saying, like, kind of rejecting phones a bit, spending more time with people, rejecting like modernity. And then we'll see some people, maybe the other half lean fully into it and go deeper down that rabbit hole.
2:40:26An interesting study I saw last night, and I don't mean to be political by saying this, it was like 60% of liberal women said that politics was the number one factor they considered when choosing a partner.
2:40:42It's really interesting. I don't remember the exact stats, but there's definitely a higher amount of men that consider themselves conservative and a higher amount of women that consider themselves progressive. But, ultimately, if that is told if it's told to people you want to have similar beliefs to the person you're with, and then men and women have completely different beliefs, just kinda leads to people not having kids and having families.
2:41:05I think the bigger problem is the way people date now comes down. It it this is part of that equation, which is the swiping dating apps.
2:41:15And because you're looking for characters. What are their what do they look like? What are their views?
2:41:20Right? But when you, like when I was, like, dating, this none of this existed.
2:41:25I mean, like, you had to, like, go out and meet people. And it's not like that's not the first thing that you're thinking about, someone's political views or, like, any of those things that you're swiping and, like, looking at, right, as on the list of things to consider to date. And I say this as I've never used a dating app, so, like, maybe I'm not even communicating this right.
2:41:42But you get the gist of what I'm saying. Right. What I'm saying is that I think that when you again, when you're like when you meet someone and you're in person with them, let's say you're at a bar, whatever, You know, like, the first thing your question you're gonna ask them isn't gonna be like, are you Republican or Democrat?
2:42:00Like, right? No. No.
2:42:01You're gonna talk to them. You're gonna get to know them. You're gonna be like, what are common?
2:42:05Let's let's not focus on the like, what are our common denominators? Like, oh, you surf? I like to surf.
2:42:10Like, oh, you know, like, you like to play tennis? I play tennis. Right?
2:42:13You're gonna, like, find things. Oh, you like science? I love science.
2:42:16Like, you're gonna for the green flags, not avoiding the red flags. And then and also, like, when you meet a person, you start to get a feeling for their who they are, their personality. You either, like, have a chemistry or you don't.
2:42:28And if you have a chemistry, guess what? Like, sometimes you even, like, I know couples that are opposite political beliefs, and they're totally happy.
2:42:36So it's not like the whole it it doesn't have to be the only deciding factor. Right?
2:42:41And I just the point I wanted to make was I think that, again, getting away from the screens in every possible way, including, and if not even more important, in, like, finding finding a mate, finding someone that you're gonna, you know, date and eventually maybe marry. I mean, if we could just get away from those dating apps, I think I mean, I I mean, I know people there's great stories too.
2:43:03Right? Of course. Like, always.
2:43:04But but there can be it it can be a filter in the wrong way.
2:43:10Right? And you'll never you'll never know if you don't get out and talk to the person and see who they are. I think that's very important.
2:43:17I wanted to ask, when you think about where everything is going, is it is this like a legitimate fear?
2:43:25Like, do you fear that your grandkids will be infertile?
2:43:32I I don't know that I necessarily fear that they're gonna be infertile, but I kind of do, if that makes sense. I think about predominantly, I think about the effects of these plastic chemicals, like phthalates in particular, on men, and even in, like, on a developing baby, right, when you're just like a fetus inside of your mother's, like, you know, uterus.
2:43:59Like, the fact that that those chemicals are having such a profound effect on sexual development even then, which can then lead to infertility when you're an adult, is scary. So it's like, wow.
2:44:12Like, the decisions that you make when you're pregnant and not even knowing it's not even decisions you make, just not even knowing that the decisions you're making are affecting your developing baby is scary because these chemicals like phthalates are so ubiquitous everywhere.
2:44:31And there are animal studies showing that, like, some of these chemicals can have generational effects.
2:44:40No human studies showing that. But going back to the phthalates, because that's the studies showing are so powerful that you can your mother, your mother exposes you to it, not even knowingly, right, while you're in her belly.
2:44:55And then you end up being infertile because of that. Like, that's terrifying. So that worries me.
2:45:02You know? That worries me a lot, I think.
2:45:05So it's generational. And does it increase generationally?
2:45:11Animal studies have found that you can expose pregnant, like, female mice to these plastic chemicals like phthalates, and it can then be transmitted not only to that generation, but the next.
2:45:26There's no evidence of that in humans. And so it could.
2:45:33Like, there could be some it's changing, like, DNA epigenetically that's going to be transmitted to the next generation, which is kind of what's been shown in animals and in rodents.
2:45:42So it's possible that it's also happening like that in humans. We don't have evidence of it, but we do have evidence for sure that it's happening.
2:45:49Like, you yourself aren't making that decision. Like, your mother is exposing you while you're a young boy, and that's going to affect your fertility later in life, even if you make all the right decisions.
2:46:02You might be, you know, you might have really low fertility or might be infertile. Women, girls that are developing in their mother's womb, you make all the eggs that you have for life when you're in there, right?
2:46:18So whatever you're exposed to in there is going to affect those eggs. And And that's also something to consider, because if there's epigenetic changes happening, in other words, it's not mutating the DNA itself, it's like the things that are sitting on top of the DNA, like methylation, right, that are changing.
2:46:32Some of those things can get transmitted to next generation. Some of those epigenetic marks can stay. But, you know, other factors can affect that as well.
2:46:41Obesity. Like, have been studies showing that, you know, obese in mice, for sure it happens, like obesity can affect the next generation. So not only not if you're an obese father mouse has a female daughter mouse, that daughter mouse can then have another mouse that has, like, you know, type two diabetes and things like that even without being exposed to, like, high fat, high sugar diets.
2:47:07So those transgenerational effects happen in mice. In humans, we know that at least sperm DNA, if you look at sperm DNA from, like, obese men, there's all kinds of genes that are affected that affect metabolic health, brain function, things like that.
2:47:21And if those same men go on weight loss, or they have bariatric surgery, the genes change back. So it's definitely affecting, you know, obesity and things like that are also affecting sperm.
2:47:33Same with these endocrine disrupting chemicals. So yeah, I am concerned that, I mean, I'm concerned for my son, I'm concerned for the future generations that, you know, I'm like well, I know a lot of people, like millennials, friends of mine, that have to do IVF, that have done IVF to have a baby.
2:47:50Like, it's already affecting, you know, my generation of people, whether they're not able to have they're having problems.
2:47:58Infertility problems is so common. Is there a dark side of IVF that people aren't really talking about? I know that for women, like, lot of the hormones they have to take, they're it doesn't come without a risk.
2:48:09You know? So like ovarian cancer, breast cancer risk goes up a little bit. So I would say, yeah, there's definitely a trade off.
2:48:17And then I guess, if were going to do a fertility protocol, what would be the things that you would make sure to include and make sure to cut out, like both men and women?
2:48:30So
2:48:31for first of all, I would start way before conception. Epigenetic stuff is real, as I just mentioned.
2:48:38Right? So if you're obese, first thing you have to do, try to lose weight. I mean, that's ideal.
2:48:44Okay. Exercise also changes epigenetic things in a positive way.
2:48:48So you want to really make sure you're exercising, and you want to start this, like, I mean, ideally years before, but at least a year, I would say, would a good starting point.
2:49:01And then you want to bank up on all these micronutrients too. You want to make sure you're getting magnesium, folate, very important for women.
2:49:08You want to be supplementing with the prenatal for like a year before, you know, consuming this is all ideal, okay? This is the ideal situation.
2:49:14I'm not saying that you can't. I mean, humans are resilient, so if you haven't done that, don't freak out. Prenatal also has, like, a lot of the methylfolate, which is really important for a lot of preventing neurotube defects and things like that, and epigenetics as well.
2:49:31So both both couples, again, weight loss, exercise. Women, we're adding in the prenatal.
2:49:38We are gonna try to stop, like, as like, eliminate and reduce as much as we can the plastic chemicals. So you wanna get the reverse osmosis water filter.
2:49:46You wanna make sure you're not drinking out of the cans a lot, or the plastic water bottles a lot. All the hot stuff, hot food, everything we talked about, hot food and the, you know, plastic stuff. Receipts, you don't want to handle receipts a lot, particularly when you are pregnant.
2:50:04And that is because these receipts are coated with BPA, bisphenol A, that's the white powdery stuff on the receipt. It's thermal paper, and so when heat is exposed with the BPA, it causes the printing.
2:50:18So it's it's not actual ink, it's BPA. It's just coated on there, and it increases BPA. It gets absorbed through your skin, particularly if you have any lotion or cream on before handling it, then it's like a hundredfold more absorbed into your skin.
2:50:32And people that are handling receipts on a daily basis, if you're a cashier register, please, please, please wear nitrile gloves. You are getting exposed to a very high amount of BPA on these receipts, and so nitrile gloves protect you from that.
2:50:47Latex does not. Would you get a shower filter as well?
2:50:51Shower filter, I would say less important.
2:50:55Like, you're not it's yeah.
2:50:59I would to we're talking optimal here. But if we're talking about the hierarchy here, I would say, like, and you're on a budget, water filter that you're drinking on top, for sure.
2:51:10But, yeah, I would I would you you could go go there because, you know, some of these chemicals can be absorbed through the skin. It's not the heat, if you're doing like a hot shower, that'll increase the absorption more.
2:51:23But it's more oh, it's minimal compared to what ingesting is doing, for sure.
2:51:31And then I would definitely try to eat whole foods, prioritize the whole foods, and lower the ultra processed foods, anything in a package, like the chips and the all that stuff.
2:51:42All the ultra processed foods, the cereals and all that stuff. And then try to get a lot of the greens, and the fruits, and the blueberries, like, all that stuff.
2:51:51Like, this is, like, setting your epigenetics up for good. Right? Alcohol consumption, I would I would stop I would try to stop, like, at least six months, like, alcohol.
2:52:02Six months before conceiving. That would be ideal.
2:52:07I would say, like, four months is fine, both men and women. And then as you're starting to conceive, then you want to, like, cut the coffee down.
2:52:17Caffeine can can affect early, early implantation, so you won't even know that you're having, like, a spontaneous miscarriage because it's, like, so early.
2:52:26So So you want to cut down, cut out caffeine, both men and women, and do everything else that I'm saying, the vitamins.
2:52:34Fish oil, magnesium, multivitamin.
2:52:38Make sure you're taking all the prenatal multivitamin for the guy, prenatal for the girl, and definitely the fish oil for both as well.
2:52:47And for men, I would also be adding some zinc, and I would add vitamin C. I would add Ubiquinol for sperm health, mitochondrial health.
2:53:01NAD, you could do nicotinamide riboside. Not while you're pregnant, but, like, for sperm health. This is the guy for sperm health.
2:53:06Anything that improves mitochondrial function is going to improve your sperm.
2:53:13Very briefly, do people who have kids live longer?
2:53:18Yes. There are studies showing that people that have kids live longer. And in fact, even women that that breastfeed, the more times they breastfeed, the lower their their breast cancer and ovarian cancer risk goes down.
2:53:31So quite beneficial for women to to not only have a baby, but to breastfeed them. Questions here.
2:53:38One, I just wanted to ask you, and this is something I I kinda came to when researching your stuff.
2:53:49She's very health conscious as well. And I was, does it ever concern you, like, the nocebo effect with all these different health experts and maybe you speaking on YouTube as well that, like, I'm telling people that something is bad, so and they're not gonna take action on it, but when they do it, they're gonna think it's more bad, so they're gonna have, like, more negative consequences.
2:54:16Like, do you ever think about that? I should try to give
2:54:19positive take homes along with the negative, for sure, because, yeah, I do worry about that. I know that it's not good to just, like, tell everyone all this negative stuff.
2:54:28Like, you need positive, and there is positive even with the plastic chemicals. Right? Like, you can we can excrete them.
2:54:36We can increase their excretion by eating things like cruciferous vegetables, lowering our exposure to them. I mean, so just knowing exercise, all these things, they have beneficial effects.
2:54:47They even have beneficial effects on all that stuff, right? Because you're just you're increasing everything good. All this it's called stress response pathways.
2:54:54Like, your body is able to handle stress better, and that's why you want to give yourself the beneficial type of stress. Because we're going to be exposed to all kinds of stress constantly.
2:55:04So the more resilient you are, the better you can handle it. And so I think that's a positive take home, that you can handle these stresses. Don't freak out so much about it.
2:55:13Try to do what you can, minimize your exposure to some of the chemicals, plastic chemicals, and plastics, and things like that. But just know that that even if you are exposed to them, like, we're pretty resilient.
2:55:23And if you're doing the right things like exercise, like, you are able to handle stress better. Your body's, like, able to do it.
2:55:30And if you're eating the right, you know, foods, like some of these vegetables and and polyphenols, that's also activating a lot of these beneficial pathways that are detoxifying things more readily, faster.
2:55:39Right? So you're getting rid of them faster. So I think that's the positive note here is that, like, you your bodies are so great at, like, you can detoxify things, you can fight off, you know, inflammation, oxidative stress, and, you know, you just have to give your body the right tools to do it.
2:55:56And I think that's the underlying theme and message I'm trying to communicate. I think as well when people watch health podcasts, they should really be conscious of,
2:56:06like, I'm not gonna just watch doctor Rhonda tell me that all these things are poison and not take any action on it. You know? Like, they have to actually see, like, okay.
2:56:16Let me double check. Is she right about this? Okay.
2:56:18Then let me actually do it. And, otherwise, I probably shouldn't watch the podcast if I'm not in the mood to take action about my health. You know?
2:56:24Yeah. Because I I think a lot of people watch these things, and they just make themselves anxious, and they kinda have that nocebo effect without actually doing the things.
2:56:35But Right. Overall, I think everything in this podcast is super helpful so far, though. But for the young man listening right now who feels nervous about his health and doesn't know where to start, if you could just give him one piece of advice for his health, what would it be?
2:56:58One piece of advice. I mean, I think if you're eating a diverse diet with vegetables and fruits and healthy meats, lean meats, and you're exercising and getting enough sleep, you're doing it right.
2:57:19I think I think, you know, that's all the other stuff is just added. I think it's really, really about that.
2:57:27It really is about the fundamentals.
2:57:29Great. Well and then I'll just add this too.
2:57:34What's the worst piece of health advice you've ever received?
2:57:37When I was in graduate school, I was very stressed out. And if you're under if you're undergoing psychological stress, that affects your gut.
2:57:46It actually causes gut permeability. I didn't know it at the time, but I was getting all these, like, gut problems where I was getting, like, bloating and distension and pain, and and, like, it was just, like, I did I thought I had IBS. I didn't know what was going on.
2:57:59So I went to see doctors, and they couldn't figure out. It didn't seem like I had any of those things.
2:58:06I even had, like, an endoscopy where they were, like, looking at my colon. Nothing. Right?
2:58:10And I think the worst piece of advice I got was, we can't figure out why you're having gut pain or or gut problems, but you could take an SSRI, or you can take an anticonvulsant, and that'll help with it.
2:58:25And I was like, absolutely not. No. I'm not going to take an antidepressant or an anticonvulsant, which is going to help with the pain in my gut.
2:58:35And then I figured out it was stress, and really kind of dialed in my diet better, and it went away.
2:58:44Thankfully, didn't get on SSRIs, but that was the worst advice I'd got.
2:58:49Yeah. I I really do think that the whole, like, commit to walking on a treadmill for one minute thing or five minutes or doing a squat, doing a few squats, putting on your clothes to the gym, just the small steps.
2:59:04I think that's always super powerful. And I think something people miss too is, like, if you're not working out regularly now, you're practically committing to being out of shape for the rest of your life, you know, because it is something that you have to maintain daily.
2:59:20And if you do decide to take SSRIs, like, you are committing to doing that life instead of trying something else first. You know?
2:59:28I I really don't think people think about the long term consequences of these things.
2:59:33But
2:59:34And also, like, I'm sure a lot of most people brush their teeth every day. Right? Yeah.
2:59:39Like, why do they brush their teeth? They don't want cavities. They don't want their, like you don't wanna get, you know, periodontitis and things like that.
2:59:46Right? Like, it is absolutely the same with exercise.
2:59:52Like, you absolutely should be exercising every day just like a personal high part of your personal hygiene, like brushing your teeth, because you don't want to get cardiovascular disease, you don't want to get upper respiratory tract infections that are going to kill you, you don't want to get Alzheimer's disease or cancer.
3:00:05Like, that is why you exercise, is not to lose weight, because you don't want to get those diseases. Like, cavities, I would take a cavity way over getting cancer, right?
3:00:15And yet you brush your teeth every day and not exercise every day. Think about that. Think about it.
3:00:19And it doesn't even have to be much. It doesn't have to be much. Like, ten minutes a day.
3:00:24There are studies showing that people that do three minutes of, like, a bout of exercise three times a day, like when I say about, like moving fast, like running up the stairs, sprinting up the stairs, you know, running around chasing your grandkid or your kid playing tag, whatever.
3:00:43If they do that three times day, so a total of nine minutes a day, they have a forty percent lower all cause mortality and a fifty percent lower cardiovascular related mortality and a forty percent lower cancer related mortality.
3:00:56Even in people that don't identify themselves as being exercisers, so they're like, well, I don't go to the gym. No, I'm not an exerciser. Even those people get those benefits.
3:01:04So it doesn't take much. And really, it should be a part of the personal hygiene, like everyone that I know that brushes their teeth and so many people that I know that don't exercise every day.
3:01:13Like, do something. Like, do something. And those moments that you do add up.
3:01:17Like, you know, like, I have a kid. I run around and play soccer sometimes. I'll I have a puppy.
3:01:22I'll, like, run around and chase the puppy and do Frisbee. And, like, those moments all count. They all add up, and they count.
3:01:28So don't don't don't ignore, like, those moments of, like, getting your heart rate up.
3:01:34Well, everyone, this has been your guest, doctor Rhonda Patrick. This is the Jack Neal podcast.
3:01:41Where can people find you?
3:01:43I have a YouTube channel. I'm I've got a podcast on YouTube called Found My Fitness where I talk about all these things and interview guests that are experts in the field of nutrition, fitness, mental health, well, you know, physical fitness, everything from, you know, aging to mental well-being and brain function.
3:02:04So they can find me there, found my fitness.
3:02:07What's one episode that people will want to watch after watching this one if they made it this far? I think a good episode would be the one on creatine with doctor Darren Kandau.
3:02:19It's a really good one. Or the one with doctor Ben Levine on the kind of exercise you need to reverse heart aging and reverse aging in general. Those are two really good episodes.
3:02:29Perfect. Well, see you guys.
The Hook
The bait, then the rug-pull.
The opening claim is blunt: the average man today carries half the sperm count and 30% less testosterone than his grandfather did at the same age. Dr. Rhonda Patrick does not frame this as a lifestyle failure. She frames it as an exposure problem, one baked into the plastic containers, grooming products, and food systems that define modern daily life.
How they asked for the click.
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