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Social Proof · YouTube

$250,000,000 In Webinar Sales - Jason Fladlien

The GOAT of webinars sits down with Social Proof host David Shands and dismantles every assumption about where webinar money actually gets made.

Posted
3 years ago
Duration
Format
Interview
educational
Views
17.4K
771 likes
Big Idea

The argument in one line.

The formal webinar pitch is only the first of twenty-six calls to action, not the close -- and every dollar left on the table comes from sellers who stop when the audience has only said no four or five times.

Who This Is For

Read if. Skip if.

READ IF YOU ARE…
  • You run or are planning sales webinars and feel anxious or awkward transitioning from content to close.
  • You have done webinars but treat the pitch as the finish line, leaving the room once you have read the offer.
  • You are building an info-product or coaching offer and want a systematic framework for constructing what goes inside the offer before thinking about price.
  • You are a podcast host or content creator considering webinars as a primary revenue channel.
SKIP IF…
  • You are looking for platform walkthroughs or technical setup -- this is entirely psychology, philosophy, and frameworks.
  • You already run a seven-figure webinar funnel and want advanced split-test optimization rather than foundational strategy.
TL;DR

The full version, fast.

Fladlien argues that nearly every webinar practitioner misunderstands where the sale actually happens. The formal pitch is only the beginning, not the close -- he delivers the first call to action five minutes into it, showing 10% of the offer, and issues up to 26 CTAs total so that prospects exhaust their automatic no responses before real deliberation begins. His core frameworks -- the two-goal opener that makes the audience feel obligated rather than sold to, objection-first offer construction that turns every excuse into a product feature, and the 60-in-60 slide recap that re-triggers emotional states before the pitch -- all serve one insight: buyers are simultaneously afraid of failure and success, and until both fears are addressed, no amount of pitch craft closes the gap.

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Voices

Who's talking.

01:45guestJason Fladlien
00:00hostDavid Shands
Chapters

Where the time goes.

00:00 – 07:30

01 · What is a webinar and why it works

David sets up the question from watching everyone make money through webinars. Jason defines the sales webinar, explains value-first vs. pure-selling advertising, and describes why the format is the most efficient simultaneous education-and-sell mechanism.

07:30 – 12:00

02 · The two-goal opener

The framework that eliminates bait-and-switch discomfort: state both goals upfront, tell the audience not to buy if you fail, and let them feel obligated if you deliver. Applied in real time to David's webinar.

12:00 – 20:00

03 · Objection-first offer construction

Start offer design by listing every reason someone says no when the offer is perfect for them. Build product components that remove each objection. Demonstrated live on David's podcasting offer.

20:00 – 30:00

04 · Transform not inform

Education is not enough -- the goal is behavioral transformation. Every teaching point should make inaction feel more dangerous than action. The fear of failure AND success paradox explained via the Milton Erickson weight-loss therapy story.

30:00 – 55:00

05 · Jason's backstory

Growing up with a meth-dealing mother, dealing weed in high school, agoraphobia and depression in college, becoming a Hari Krishna rapping monk at 20, ghostwriting articles in 2007, and shipping his first product in one sitting.

55:00 – 1:06:00

06 · Building your first webinar audience

Sell something that does not exist yet. Run a test group. Start with an email list, not a webinar. Work for someone else's audience for free to earn a bio link. Do not run a webinar until you can put 50 to 100 people in a room at once.

1:06:00 – 1:15:00

07 · Slides, pacing, and the 3-second rule

One point per slide. A camera angle change every three seconds is the TV baseline. The 60-in-60 bridge recap before the pitch re-triggers emotional states. Show receipts -- the Russell Brunson million-dollar wire transfer story.

1:15:00 – 1:20:00

08 · 26 CTAs and the real close

Deliver the first CTA five minutes into the pitch showing 10% of the offer. Issue up to 26 total CTAs. The real webinar starts 90 minutes in, after the formal pitch, with the audience who stayed. A sell that is 99% closed is worth zero dollars.

1:20:00 – 1:21:51

09 · Pricing, backend, and the book

$2K price ceiling in mass. 10%/10x backend rule. Book: One to Many. Final advice: throw the damn life raft.

Atomic Insights

Lines worth screenshotting.

  • The real webinar close begins 90 minutes in, after the formal pitch, when the people who stayed are the only ones who matter.
  • Start with price and end on value -- if you end on price, you leave the audience focused on the wrong variable.
  • People need to say no an average of 26 times before they say yes to something -- so give them 26 calls to action.
  • A sell that is 99% closed is worth exactly zero dollars.
  • Build your offer by listing every reason someone would say no when the offer is perfect for them, then make those objections disappear inside the product.
  • No sounds like K-N-O-W -- a prospect who says no needs more information, not less selling.
  • Showing the first 10% of your offer at the first CTA means the audience thinks they know the deal while you have not made 90% of it yet.
  • Different is better than better -- if you say the same thing as everybody else, you get the same results as everybody else.
  • Your average entrepreneur is not afraid of failure or success -- they are afraid of both simultaneously.
  • People retain the feeling from content far longer than the content itself, which is why emotional states during the webinar matter more than comprehension.
  • 10% of your front-end audience will pay 10 times as much for an offer pointed specifically at them -- usually because it saves time.
  • Two thousand dollars is the price ceiling for mass-market results-based offers -- build a twenty-thousand-dollar offer and compress it down, never inflate a cheap one up.
  • Sell something that does not exist yet: the first webinar should be a test group where the audience co-creates the product with you.
  • Slides are anchors, not information delivery -- they re-trigger the emotional state from learning, not the facts themselves.
  • Whatever gets the webinar out the door fastest is the right choice -- platform and format are secondary to the message.
Takeaway

The close begins after the pitch ends.

WHAT TO LEARN

Most webinar sellers treat the formal offer as the close -- these frameworks treat it as the opening move in a graduated sequence designed to outlast every automatic no.

01What is a webinar and why it works
  • The webinar format works because it delivers value before asking for money -- most advertising asks for money first and hopes the product delivers value after.
  • The skill gap that makes webinars rare and valuable: you must be good at communication and selling simultaneously, and very few people are good at both.
02The two-goal opener
  • Stating your intent to sell at the beginning of a webinar reduces resistance rather than raising it -- audiences who know the agenda feel less deceived when the pitch arrives.
  • Using the word obligated in the opener frames the transaction as earned, not sold -- it is more effective than trying to soft-pedal the ask.
03Objection-first offer construction
  • Begin building any offer by listing the biggest reasons someone says no when the offer is clearly right for them -- these become your product components, not just your pitch objections.
  • Lean into objections rather than arguing against them: if nervousness is the excuse, show how nervousness makes a host more relatable and therefore more effective.
04Transform not inform
  • Education on a webinar is not the goal -- behavioral transformation is. Teaching someone what to do is far less valuable than making them want to do it.
  • Most potential buyers are simultaneously afraid of failure and afraid of success; selling that only addresses the fear of failure misses half the psychological barrier to purchase.
06Building your first webinar audience
  • Run a test group before running a full webinar: sell something that does not exist yet, be transparent about the experiment, and let early adopters co-create the product with you.
  • If you have no audience, serve someone else's audience for free first -- a bio link from a borrowed platform builds a list faster and cheaper than paid advertising.
07Slides, pacing, and the 3-second rule
  • One point per slide is the rule -- if a slide has three bullet points, that should be three slides; more slides means more motion means more engagement.
  • Slides function as emotional anchors during the close recap: audiences forget 92% of what they heard, but they remember how they felt, and the matching visual re-triggers that state.
0826 CTAs and the real close
  • Deliver the first call to action five minutes into the close showing only the bare minimum of the offer -- the audience believes they have seen the full deal when they have seen only 10% of it.
  • The real selling begins after the formal pitch ends, when the audience who stayed through the close is still in the room engaging with objections.
09Pricing, backend, and the book
  • Build a version of your offer worth $20,000 and compress it to $2,000 -- never inflate a cheap product upward, because the perceived value gap closes before the transaction does.
  • 10% of your front-end buyers will pay 10 times the price for an offer that saves them time rather than teaching them new skills.
Glossary

Terms worth knowing.

Two-goal opener
A webinar opening framework where the host states two explicit goals upfront: teach something valuable, then sell something. The audience is told not to buy if goal one is not delivered, removing bait-and-switch anxiety for both parties.
The stack
The accumulation of bonuses added to the core offer during the close. The bonuses should be the most valuable part, saved for last so the offer builds rather than peaks early.
60-in-60 bridge
A slide-based recap technique that summarizes 60 minutes of webinar content in 60 seconds before transitioning to the pitch, re-activating the emotional states the audience felt during learning.
Price ceiling
The highest price a mass-market audience will pay without requiring a one-on-one sales conversation. Pegged at around $2,000 for most results-based digital offers.
Objection-first offer construction
Building an offer by starting with the biggest reasons the ideal buyer would say no, then designing product components that remove each objection, turning excuses into features.
Transform not inform
The principle that webinar teaching should drive behavioral change, not just knowledge transfer. Every lesson is designed to shift a limiting belief or make inaction feel more dangerous than action.
Resources

Things they pointed at.

1:18:40bookOne to Many (book by Jason Fladlien)
1:08:20productClickFunnels ↗
1:08:20productTraffic Secrets (John Reese, acquired by Russell Brunson)
00:00channelSocial Proof Podcast ↗
1:18:40linkpodcastsummit.com ↗
Quotables

Lines you could clip.

00:42
“If I do my whole pitch and I end on price, I have you focused on price. If I start with price and end on value, I have you focused on value.”
Counterintuitive pricing frame -- zero setup needed.→ TikTok hook↗ Tweet quote
1:17:00
“A sell that is 99% closed is worth exactly zero dollars.”
Extreme, provocative, immediately relatable to anyone who has lost a sale.→ IG reel cold open↗ Tweet quote
1:16:00
“No to me sounds like K-N-O-W. I need to know more.”
Reframe of rejection -- short, memorable, quotable without context.→ newsletter pull-quote↗ Tweet quote
1:21:35
“If somebody is dying and you need to throw them a life raft, do not worry about the logo on it. Throw them the damn life raft.”
Visceral closing line -- zero setup needed.→ TikTok hook↗ Tweet quote
1:04:00
“Different is better than better.”
Four words. Contrarian. Quotable without any context.→ newsletter pull-quote↗ Tweet quote
Topic Map

Where the conversation goes.

00:00 – 07:30denseWebinar definition and value-first model
07:30 – 12:00denseTwo-goal opener framework
12:00 – 20:00denseOffer construction
20:00 – 30:00denseTransform not inform and fear paradox
30:00 – 55:00steadyJason backstory
55:00 – 1:06:00denseBuilding first audience
1:06:00 – 1:15:00denseSlides and pacing
1:15:00 – 1:20:00dense26 CTA strategy and real close
1:20:00 – 1:21:51steadyPricing, backend, book plug
The Script

Word for word.

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00:00Everybody just making like big money Yeah. Right, in this digital space. They're all doing it through a webinar.
00:05So I'm thinking to myself, what the heck is this webinar? And that's what we're gonna have a conversation about today. Yeah.
00:10Yeah. So
00:11when when you think of a webinar, what is it? The webinar that I use the most is a sales webinar. So it's generally sixty to seventy five minutes of content, and then after that you present an offer.
00:21It comes from the term online seminar. So a seminar on the web, shorten that to webinar and there you go. When I'm selling, if I know they're gonna say no, if I show you everything and then get a know, where am I gonna go from there?
00:32By the way, if I do my whole pitch and I end on price, I have you focused on price. Yeah. If I start with price and end on value, I have you focused on value.
00:41Right? Yes. That's where I want you at because the price is irrelevant, man.
00:45For some things, a dollar is too much, and for other things, a million dollars isn't enough. My pitch when I start, I show them the bare minimum. Here's what it is, here's what it does, here's why this is awesome, here's what it should cost, here's what it normally costs, here's a special deal for you if you act fast enough, go here and get it.
01:01They're already kind of open to the idea of buying it. They're trying to talk themselves into it, so they're already open to it, and they haven't even seen the best part yet. I want them in that frame of mind.
01:12Everybody else is scared out of their mind, David, because they're like, they're gonna I'm gonna ask you for money, you're gonna say no, and then you're gonna run the other way, I'm never gonna see you again. That's what most people believe. But the reality is do a webinar, make your offer, and watch how few people leave the first time you ask for their money.
01:26Now you're right. There are those jump shippers that'll get off right away. But once you account for those once they're done, look who stays.
01:33Welcome to another edition of the social proof podcast. We find dope people to do really really dope stuff and I'm excited,
01:39uh, because I'm another really really really rich person. Someone who's made a lot more money than me. Jason Flattlin, what's going on man?
01:46How are you? What's up David? How's it going?
01:48Man, I am amazing. We were on a yacht that I probably didn't qualify to be on And you were sitting there and you had a crowd of people around you and you're already teaching these people who are already making a whole lot of money how to make more money.
02:06And I didn't understand what you were talking about.
02:10I had no idea. Like because there's certain lingo and language that you all use in the digital marketing space.
02:16I'm just a podcast. I'm not like a digital marketer. But I was so impressed of how you can captivate people who are already making a whole lot of money.
02:25So I've been waiting on this conversation so, um, you can break it down into layman's terms. I will try my best.
02:35You will miss. So Jason introduce you. So how do you introduce yourself when people say, hey, who are you?
02:39So they call me the goat of webinars. So that's what I go with these days, uh, best at webinars.
02:45I I at least have the track record to prove it. Sold a quarter billion dollars through webinars alone, specifically set records in the internet marketing space for launches as an affiliate.
02:56And pretty much anybody who's using webinars in the game has learned it either directly from me or indirectly from one of my students who taught what I did for me to them. Really? Yes, sir.
03:08A quarter of $1,000,000,000?
03:10Yeah. That's when we quit counting. After that, you don't need to count anymore.
03:14Yeah. You don't need to count anymore. Okay.
03:17So what were you selling?
03:19You know, it's a good question. Right? So our attitude is let's find the very best thing to sell and then build marketing around that.
03:26So throughout the years, I've sold things such as like how to sell on Amazon before it was cool, like everybody and their brother has a course on it these days. But we were the the top affiliate for the first real course on Amazon FBA. I've helped people launch and sell stuff in the financial space.
03:43Mostly though, we look at what's going on in the digital marketing landscape. And what's the thing that will help the most people get the biggest edge right now? I have a philosophy in business, David, like, I don't wanna make you better.
03:54I want you to stay the same but get a better result. So how do I allow you to stay the same and get a better result? Well, I find better opportunities, better fields for you to play in, give you advantages that most people couldn't have.
04:05I'm gonna give them to you. Um, the analogy is this. Like, if I wanna make you make more money at poker, I could teach you, like, how to bluff, how to calculate probability, or I can just put you on a table with a really bad people that play poker, that bet lots of money and suck at the game.
04:20Now you don't get better, but you make more money. So I'm always on the quest of what's the product in the market right now that can take an average person and get them an above average result, and then how can we then make that even better? How do we take the best offer and then make it even better?
04:34So that's what we're always doing and it always changes, man. Got it. So I'm seeing in, uh, I'm seeing that a lot of these people are making a lot of money, but the way that they're making money is through
04:46teaching people how to make a lot of money. So all these people are saying yo, I'm doing a million dollars a month, half $1,000,000 a month. I'm I'm meeting these people.
04:53Right? And I'm like, oh, well what do you do? And they say well I'll I don't know their thing might be I I help people get into the Airbnb space.
05:04Yep. And then through conversation I realize it's through a webinar.
05:10I'm everybody just making like big money right in this digital space. They're all doing it through a webinar. So I'm thinking to myself, what the heck is this webinar?
05:18And that's we're gonna have a conversation about today. Yeah. Yeah.
05:21So
05:22what is a webinar? When when you think of a webinar, what is it? It's a great question.
05:26Right? Because it it could be a lot of different things. Yeah.
05:30The thing that I'm most called upon to teach and the thing the webinar that I use the most is a sales webinar. So it's generally sixty to seventy five minutes of content, and then after that, you present an offer. But it could be anything, man.
05:42It's it comes from the term online seminar. So a seminar on the web, shorten that to webinar, and there you go. The first webinars I ever ran were pure content webinars.
05:52I go to a very small list of people that I had way back in 2008, and they most of them only pay me like $5.10, $15 for an info product. And I'd say, hey, come to this webinar, I wanna train on something.
06:03Mhmm. And then they would show up and they would let me train. Here's what's great about it.
06:07You go on stage and you speak, you get like an hour and a half. Right? We on this podcast, you know, we go for however long we typically go, which is not like maybe an hour, forty five minutes, what have you.
06:16Right? When it's your webinar, you go for as long as you want. And so I would do these trainings and just teach on an on a topic for two or three or four hours, just pure content.
06:26Three or four hours? Yeah, man. Yeah.
06:28Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
06:29They stay?
06:30If it's good, they do. Yeah. Makes sense.
06:33Okay. Yeah. And so I I that's a webinar is just any way that you can get people, a bunch of people together in one virtual event where there's interaction going on, and predominantly it's training.
06:45Generally, that's how it is. So I'm And this is why I like a webinar, this is why a lot of successful products get launched off of webinars, because it's value first, sales second.
06:55Most advertising is is pure selling, there's no value to it. So you're annoyed by it but then hopefully it makes up for it when you buy the product.
07:03Or it's pure content. So it's valuable but nobody's making money directly off of it.
07:10Got it. And so the webinar is the most efficient way to simultaneously educate and sell in the same setting with the least amount of moving parts if you're good at it.
07:19The challenge is you gotta be both good at at communication to to help somebody, like educate them, and then you also gotta know how to sell. People are most people aren't good at either. Some people are good at one, very few people are good at both.
07:33And that's the challenging part of the webinars. You gotta be able to to inform and sell, and then you gotta be able to speak publicly too, which is also challenging for most people.
07:42But if you can learn those skills, and I'm confident anybody with something worthwhile to say can learn that, then you have an edge over everybody else in the marketplace. Because nobody wants to do a webinar because they're like, oh, that's too hard.
07:55There's too much work. Uh, so if you can master that, it's really it'll set you apart from everybody else in the industry. I suck at sales bro.
08:02Yeah man. And I did I do the webinar
08:05because I'm passionate about teaching people all the stuff that I got in my brain and I'm going to help you. Now at the end of it I have to ask for the money and my friend he said that I I don't spend enough time on the clothes because I like ask them, would you like to buy?
08:21No?
08:23Congratulations to those that did and then it's over. Yeah. That's wrong.
08:27We can fix that very easily. Yeah. Let's fix it right now.
08:29Alright. So this is the first webinar that I ever did, this framework. And I still use it to this day, David.
08:35Not not as often as I used to, but if I had to teach anybody, I'd start here. Okay.
08:40K? So I always was uncomfortable at first with webinars because I felt like it was kind of bait and switch, especially when I began.
08:47Because when I began, people genuinely thought you were just teaching out of the goodness of your own heart. Right? There was no ulterior motive whatsoever.
08:54And so they they were like, you lure them in, like, gonna teach you something. The next thing you know, oh, you're selling them. Right?
08:59I I was always uncomfortable with that. It didn't feel right. I felt deceptive.
09:03So I I said, how do I counteract that so I can still do webinars and feel comfortable with it? So when I used to start my webinars, I would start it off something like this. I said, have two goals today on this webinar.
09:14Uh, my first goal is to teach you how to do x y and z. Some big grandiose promise that I knew I could deliver on, but it sounded outrageous. So like, goal number one, I'm gonna show you how to do x y and z.
09:23Goal number two, I'm gonna sell you something. Now I go, here's the caveat.
09:29If I don't make good on my first goal to do x y z, show you how to do one, two, and three, then I insist that you not buy anything that I ever offer on this webinar or any other webinar. Right? That's hard.
09:42Because it's it takes the pressure off. Yeah. Now here's the second part.
09:45However, if by some small miracle I do make good and actually show you how to do a b and c one two and three, then you absolutely need to pay attention to my offer that I'm gonna make at the end of this webinar. Do we have a deal?
10:01Oh. So we just set the framework, man. We got the agenda laid out flat out.
10:06I gotta blow your mind with value. If I do, I earn the right to sell you. If I don't, then please don't buy.
10:11And everybody says, dude, if you can pull off a, b, and c, I'd be happy to consider purchasing something from you. And now everybody's clear and nobody's getting in each other's way, and you don't have to worry, am I selling them too hard or am I too uncomfortable?
10:24Because they're like, dude, I hope you can sell me something because you gotta bring it and that makes your webinars easier to create because now you got something very specific that you can work towards as an outcome.
10:35Wow. Why didn't you tell me that? No, you didn't.
10:38Didn't tell He did tell you that. He's killing it on the webinars and he's just he didn't he didn't you didn't tell me that. I wish I would've known that.
10:44That is good. Yeah. For especially for somebody with my temperament that doesn't feel like doing a hard sell, but it's almost like
10:53it's almost like if I do something good the audience is almost feels obligated to say okay yes I will. I would use that actual word on my opener I would say then you should feel obligated to purchase what I have to offer at the end. Wow.
11:07Obligated. And everybody would agree.
11:09That's amazing. Okay. So so I'm I'm starting.
11:14And let's talk about the offer. Mhmm. I don't know if my offer is attractive enough or I have a very niche market.
11:23I help I help, uh, podcasters. Yeah.
11:27I wanna help people get in the podcasting space. I'm really excited about it. Good.
11:31My objective is to be to usher more people into podcasting than anybody else because I think it's a freedom thing. Like you get to get all this stuff off your chest and off your heart and off your head, um, and you become a better communicator through the process.
11:44Yes. However, um, I don't I can't have I don't have a promise of money.
11:51Is that gonna be a hindrance for a webinar? Not necessarily.
11:55Right? Um, it's typically a slower burn.
11:59Meaning that it's easier to sell money at a discount upfront. Pay me a small amount of money and get a large amount of money in return. Easiest pitch in the world.
12:06Right? Um, long term, that doesn't really matter. What matters is are people better off than they were after they bought your course?
12:12If there's a whole bunch of those people, then you can take over that market. You can be the one that everybody ends up going to. So I don't really care if we're selling a result based on money or not on the webinar.
12:22Where we start is, um, always with limitations. And this is something I do differently than everybody else, David, which is probably why I get a different result.
12:30Um, so if I'm creating an offer with you or if I'm your offer strategist, if you will, right, I would say what prevents people from doing what your offer promises them to do? What would stop them? What would get in the way?
12:41Where would they go wrong? Where would they fail? That's where we start when we look at constructing an offer.
12:46So do you have an example of somebody that, uh, who would try to do what you're gonna teach and fail?
12:54Like where would they get caught up? Yeah. So they get caught up, uh, just being nervous to put it out to put their voice out there and nobody likes it.
13:02Yeah. Yep. So I would wanna create a part of the offer that specifically
13:06address that. Right? So how can we make that no longer a valid excuse for that person?
13:13And I'll give you and I'm just making this up as we go along. So these are just examples. Uh, if we're working together, I would help you very specifically, but these days with AI, it doesn't even have to be your voice anymore.
13:23Right? So it's like if you're concerned about putting your podcast out there, but you're afraid of your own voice or somebody recognizing you, congratulations. That's no longer an issue.
13:32One of the bonuses is we're gonna show you how to do AI. Right? I would even take it to a different level.
13:37We always lean into the objection. How can we turn it into an advantage? Right?
13:42So why is How could nervousness be an advantage? Well, it could be an advantage because it makes you more relatable. It could be an advantage because people It forces you to focus more on what matters, as opposed to being all slick and all glamoury and working on the gift wrap.
13:56You work on more what's inside of the box than the box itself. So we can spin that to an advantage and we can help them understand. Uh, at the end of the day, David, everybody's as big as their biggest excuse.
14:05And so if you have an excuse that says, can't succeed, there's nothing I can do to help you. So I have to remove that excuse, and if I do that, I win more sales that way than any other way than I know how.
14:17So if we're looking at your offer, we gotta say what are the three to five to seven biggest reasons somebody would say no when this offer is perfect for them? And then what would cause them to say no? And how can we get them to realize that that's not valid?
14:30That's not a valid excuse for them to limit themselves and to stop themselves? Because they want a podcast. You're selling this to people who wanna get out there, who wanna have impact, but something's stopping them.
14:41We gotta remove that obstacle and then we make more sales.
14:44So for you, is the opposite is is the is the webinars main objective
14:51to get them to believe in themselves or to teach them something? And if there is if it's both, what's the balance? That's a great question.
14:59So I always say, uh, our job is to transform not inform. So a lot of people wanna educate on a webinar, and education is not enough. So we need behavioral transformation.
15:10That's everything we do. So we teach on webinars, but the teaching always is what can we do to change somebody's limiting behavior. So if this person is afraid to start a business because they're they're scared they're gonna fail, how do we make them more scared of not taking action?
15:27You see what I'm doing there? Right? Yeah.
15:29Yeah. Give me an example. Give me an example.
15:31Yeah. So I'll you a great example. So let's take webinars for example.
15:34This would also work for podcast too. Is, uh, most people are afraid to do a webinar because what if I go out there and it doesn't work, I fall flat on my face, I look like a fool, people point at me, make fun of me, my career's over, done It's terrifying.
15:50Shock. Right? And I tell them, I say, listen, you know what?
15:54The first webinar you're gonna do, nobody's even gonna care. They're not even gonna show up anyway.
15:59Right? So dude, you don't have anything to worry about. Trust me.
16:03Even your own friends ain't gonna come to that damn thing. Right? And so now they're feeling more afraid of of the excuse to hold on to it.
16:10So And they're gonna be more likely to take action. That's just one silly example. There's I stack them.
16:15You wanna chop down a tree, you don't just swing at one angle. You you chop all the way around the foundation and then you can push the tree over. Right?
16:21So we're chipping away at all these foundational issues with the limiting behavior, but that's the thing is these these people here's your average customer, David. This is what's I find fascinating. They're not afraid of failure.
16:32They're not afraid of success. They're afraid of both simultaneously.
16:35Right? So Hold on. Hold on.
16:37Yeah. Let's break it out. Let me process it real quick.
16:40They're not afraid of failure and they're not afraid of success. They're afraid of both simultaneously.
16:44Yeah. How does how is that possible? Explain that.
16:47Alright. So, uh, there was a therapist named doctor Milton H Erickson. Pretty much the father of conversational hypnosis.
16:56So one of the areas that I wanted to study when I learned persuasion was I studied Erickson, Ericksonian hypnosis, and there was a story he told, and this really got me to finally understand the principle that I'm talking about to you today. I had a weight loss client come into him one day, and the issue was, um, she wanted to lose weight, but the problem was if she lost the weight, then she didn't have the the difference of barrier between her and the outside world.
17:22So the weight was a cushion of protection. Wow. So if she loses weight, that is scary for her.
17:29But she wants to lose weight because she's tired of being overweight. So keeping the weight is scary to her, it causes her pain in certain ways, but losing the weight also causes her pain as well.
17:42So both ways she is afraid. Your average entrepreneur, they're afraid of failure because then they're gonna get the same thing they've always got, but they're also terrified of success.
17:51Because if I give a person a thousand new customers, they're afraid of the accountability that comes with that. How am I gonna live up to this reputation that I've just created for myself?
18:02Here's all the ways in which I can screw it up. So your average entrepreneur at the beginning stages is just terrified. If they win they lose, and if they lose they lose.
18:11And so we have to help unpack that and reconfigure that in a way that actually serves them and doesn't limit them anymore. And that's every customer I found is they're afraid of both simultaneously winning and losing at whatever you sell.
18:23And if you don't fundamentally address that in some way shape or form, you're only gonna get this much of the market and we wanna get this much of the market. You said you started studying persuasion, when?
18:34Since I was like three. I didn't know it at the time, right? Do you remember why?
18:41I could tell you why, right? So I grew up in a very challenging environment when I was young, right?
18:47Just to put it in a perspective, I shouldn't even be here right now, man. Like my mom ended up serving six years in prison for dealing crystal meth. Oh, wow.
18:56Yeah. And so when I was younger, I grew up in an environment that was very chaotic like that. You know, tweakers as they call them, they would get high, they'd stay up three or four or five days at a time to start to see things that weren't there.
19:08And I had to like get a balance in that environment. I had to take over essentially and and and make it safe when it wasn't safe. So I had to learn ways to communicate even back then for my own safety.
19:20I had to grow up fast. I'm sorry, paint this picture for me. Your mom goes to prison.
19:25You were how old? So I was 17 because they finally caught her after all of those years, right? But you were you were there.
19:31Oh shoot. So you're
19:33I mean you're like your whole teen years you're seeing it. Yeah. Did you know your mom was a man?
19:38Oh yeah. Yeah.
19:39I mean she'd smoke it right in front of me. Right? After a while.
19:43Yeah. Shit's real man.
19:44Yeah. Wow. What about your dad?
19:48Uh, you know, so my my mom and my dad divorced and I kinda felt like I had to be there for my mom and take care of her because if I did, nobody would. Uh, so and I you know, I wish I wouldn't have in retrospect because as a kid that does something to you, Like, it really messes with you.
20:03It traumatized me, and I'm working on it still to this day, which shout out to everybody listening right now. It don't matter where you come from. Right?
20:09You can make it work, and I'm proof positive of that. So I I would I would try to take care of her and watch her and make sure she was okay. So in a lot of ways, and I didn't even know this, like I was learning ways in which to make the environment as safe as I could.
20:23So I was learning persuasion even at an early age without studying it, which probably attracted me later on in business because I'm like this makes sense to me, this feels safe, I get this, I can do something with this. Can you give me an example of you making the environment safer? Yeah.
20:39In this story I've never told before, like this is a crazy story. So I I was about 16 years old one time and it's about seven in the morning on a Saturday. I remember this very well.
20:48And all my mom wakes me up and they've been up all night. It was it was her her boyfriend at the time, uh, who also later went to prison with her. He end up dying in prison.
20:57He got brain cancer. Right? And then my cousin whose name was David also by the way.
21:03Interesting. So they've been up all night.
21:06She woke me up in the morning. She's like, you gotta get him out of here. This guy, he's screaming and he's yelling and he's going crazy in the front yard.
21:13And I'm I'm all pissed off because it's a Saturday at seven in the morning and I'm getting up and I'm a young kid, right? So I gotta go out there and I gotta diffuse the situation and I gotta figure out how to calm him down. So that way he doesn't try to fight my mom or worse yet, he's out in the front yard screaming.
21:30I don't want the cops to come, you know. He's your mom's boyfriend that's crazy. Yeah.
21:33Gotcha. Yeah. Yeah.
21:34And so like I had to go out there and and use my wits to figure out how to diffuse that situation as fast as I possibly could. Right? In that particular instance, I used to wear glasses back then I had lasik.
21:44Right? He's out there screaming. I walk out front and I'm and I'm like, dude, you need to calm down right now.
21:49He looks at me and he's like, what? You want some? And I I said, hit me.
21:52He said, what? Go hit me right now. And he looked at me again and I take my glasses off.
21:56I go, okay. Now hit me and I get in his face and he doesn't know what to do so he turns around and he runs down the street. That's how I solve that problem.
22:03Right? But you know, I I didn't know it at the time. Later I studied like neuro linguistic programming NLP.
22:09Right? You match somebody's state. So you wanna you wanna you wanna get a rapport with somebody.
22:14You don't be calm when they're angry. You get angry with them and then you do something with it.
22:20So I intuitively understood that and later on I was able to to to use it in a better more successful way like, if somebody thinks you're overpriced, arguing with over arguing over them is not gonna help. If somebody says, oh, that's a lot of money And you can say, no, it's not really.
22:36Let's talk about value blah blah. No. You lost them.
22:38Right? Yeah. You say, hell yeah.
22:39That's a lot of money for the wrong person. But are you the wrong person or not? And they're like, damn.
22:45Am I the wrong person? I don't know if I am or not. Right?
22:47But we match them first. And so those are just some examples of how I learned that. But when I got into business then, I just I noticed there is ways of communication that either bring people towards you or push people away from you.
23:01And there's there's ways you can make people happy that don't make them better, And then there's ways that you make people better and they're often not because you're a nice person or not because, uh, you do things that other people won't do in terms of provide value. There's a lot more going on on how people make decisions and most of it is irrational.
23:20So okay, you're 17 when your mother goes to jail.
23:24Yep. Right? Now what?
23:27Did you go to college? Yeah.
23:30Uh, so I I my first job was I'd pot because I mean, what's my mom gonna say?
23:37Family business. And I could slang it out of the house. You wanna talk about a competitive advantage in business world, right?
23:43To other kids in high school, I was the plug because nobody else could slag out of the house, man.
23:50And I had the hookups because I knew all the dudes that sold the weed through my mom's and my aunt and all them, right? So yeah, you're right.
23:57So like, I I was dealing weed and I was making decent money back then, but I wanted to get the hell out of that environment. So I went I went to college.
24:08I was at Iowa State. I grew up in Iowa. And I went there but I was all messed up dude.
24:13I was depressed. I had panic attacks every day multiple times. I was agoraphobic meaning I was afraid to go outside.
24:20I was a wreck. Really? Yeah.
24:22Agoraphobic. Agoraphobic. Agoraphobic.
24:26Oh, you're not agoraphobic. The name is agoraphobic. Yeah.
24:30I'm an agoraphobic.
24:32Afraid to go outside? Open spaces basically. It's the opposite of claustrophobia.
24:37Yeah. So and it's very common with people who have anxiety disorders. I later found out in in depression and all this kind of stuff.
24:44So I went to college just to escape the insanity, but I was broken and when I got some space where you're not when you're not in the thick of things Yeah. Then that's when the real depression kicks in.
24:56Because when you're in the thick of things, you don't got time to be depressed. You can't stop and think about how messed up it is. Uh, but like, so my mom was running from the police when she took me to to Ames to Iowa to go to Iowa State.
25:07And I'll never forget this because we're standing in a Target and all these other kids with both parents, they're filling up multiple different shopping carts full of all these different stuff they're gonna put in their their dorms. And I turn and my mom starts crying and I I didn't know what was going on. I said, mom, what's wrong?
25:21And she's like, I'm sorry. All she could give me was like shampoo, conditioner, deodorant and that was it.
25:27Right? And I was I was oblivious. I didn't even notice that.
25:29But I was glad to be out of that environment. So I go to school for like a semester and a half. I don't know how I did it dude, but I got really good grades.
25:37One way I I something I always knew early on in my life, like, I knew what the teacher wanted, so I studied the teacher, not the material. I'm like, the teacher likes to grade this. So I've got this knack for this kind of stuff.
25:47Right? Um, I even became a teacher's assistant the second semester, a philosophy class, and I was grading the essays and the exams, and I was making a little bit of money doing that even though I was a, you know, a freshman.
25:58Right? So I knew how to work the angles, but I was so depressed that I I I was just I had to get out of there.
26:05So it was an Easter weekend. Remember this very clearly. One of my mom's friends drove up there, got my stuff.
26:10I didn't have much stuff. Uh, took me back, and I moved in with my dad. I just didn't tell him.
26:14Right? He came home because he had he was with this girl at this time, so he'd only come home every so often. And we were driving up to my grandma's for Easter, and my dad's like, when you going back?
26:23Like, I ain't going back. He's like, I didn't think you were. And so I stayed there, David, till I was like 20 years old or longer than that.
26:33So I was 20 years old, we were doing music. Because I'd always done music my whole life. So me and a couple friends started to get it like a music career taken off.
26:41And and and that wasn't going anywhere but one of them was this story gets insane, man. Was like It's unbelievable.
26:50Right? But my friend when he traveled with the Hari Krishna, the these monks. He brought that back and I was so messed up mentally that I would take anything.
26:58So I was like, this sounds interesting. So I became a Hari Krishna rapping monk. I am not kidding you.
27:04Right? A Hari Krishna what? Yeah.
27:06I used to rap. Right? A rapping monk?
27:08I was rapping monk. Yeah. Yeah.
27:10I mean, the bread crumbs are out there. I ain't gonna I ain't gonna show you where to find them but if you look hard enough, you could still find them.
27:16Right? So I mean, the story is unbelievable, but it exists, so I got proof on it. So that changed my whole life.
27:23When I became a monk, it really switched me on. Like, it it helped heal me, it helped get me focused, it it made me reconnect with the spiritual side, and just all this craziness in this world, it made things make sense. And then I got focused on the music, but the music wasn't going anywhere, so I studied the business of the music.
27:39Then when I got into the business of the music, I studied the marketing of the business. And I thought, man, this marketing stuff is really cool.
27:46So I'm gonna learn it and then I'm gonna go apply it back to my music. I just no. Sixteen years later, I still haven't applied it back to the music.
27:53But
27:54that's the whole story, man. Yeah. It's great.
27:56How old were you when you became a monk? I was 20 years old. You're 20 years old.
28:00How old you now? I'm 40 years old. 40 years old.
28:03So when it seems like you were studying one, it seems like your gift is being able to communicate with people.
28:11Right? Whether you knew it or not. Right?
28:13Your your communication, I would imagine you just had a bunch of friends, people that like you. Right? You're getting close to the teacher and what freshman helps the teacher grade papers.
28:23You know what mean? Like like where does that come from? Right?
28:27When did you when did you realize, oh, well this is a gift for me. Just relating to people.
28:33Yeah. I, uh, so I I I had ran out of money while I was trying to start my marketing career, and the the business, the music took everything away that I had.
28:44So I started painting houses again. Uh, I I would paint houses off and on throughout my since I was a young kid just to make some money. I'd work with a crew and and paint.
28:52My dad was a teacher, so in the summertime, he would paint, so I knew all those guys. Um, so I would go back and I'd paint houses, and I'm like, the problem with starting a business was, we I'd spend ten hours a day driving and working, and then driving home ten to twelve hours a day, six to seven days a week.
29:09So I didn't have much time to start a business before or after that. I tried. Uh, so I decided to just do a service, and I think for most people starting out, this is the best way foot in the door strategy is I said, let me just work for other people in marketing and learn it that way.
29:26So at the time, this is 2007, publishing articles in article directories online could drive some traffic.
29:35And so I was a ghostwriter. I would write articles for other marketers. And then that that allowed me to quit painting houses.
29:42And then what that really opened up for me is I developed a system for article writing. And then I I always wanted to sell the system, create an information product and publish it.
29:54And I went on like six months coming up with every excuse of why I couldn't do it. I was talking just like everybody does. Right?
30:00And then the fateful day that changed everything is I said, listen, I'm gonna create the product in one sitting. I'm just gonna sit down and when I get up, damn it, whatever's done is done. I'm gonna ship it out.
30:09So I'm like, how do you create a product like that? You just dive straight into it. I was like, you know, all the guys on YouTube now that go straight in, right?
30:15I I was doing that stuff back in 2007. I didn't know any better. No warm up, no intro.
30:19I was like, you wanna write an article fast? Step one, do this. Step two, do this.
30:22Step three, do this. There is no step four. It was like six pages.
30:25Right? And I I was like, so product's done.
30:28I don't know how to write a sales letter. So I'm like, I'm gonna do that in one sitting. And so I sat down and I was just like, hey, listen.
30:34Um, I'm confident I could cut your article writing time in half the first time you use this. It's only $4 to to try it out, and dammit, if you don't like that, I'll give you your $4 back. Go buy it here.
30:44So it was the simplest sales letter ever, and I just sold a really cheap product. And people bought it, they liked it, they got excited about it, and I said, I can do more of this. So my biggest problem, David, is I could train and educate and help people, but I couldn't do it in a way where I could bottle it up and sell it.
31:01Got it. So I figured it out by cutting down the time and all of the factors that would prevent me from being successful. And if you do that, then the only option left is success.
31:11So if I had to create the product in one sitting, what would that look like? If I had to sell it by writing a sales letter as simple as possible, what would that look like? So I started with a super low price point.
31:19And then when I proved to myself and other people that that worked, I just started trading up. And it's amazing how quickly you can trade up and go from a very small, very humble success and turn it into a complete industry transforming success in less than a decade.
31:35Man,
31:37I always like to like hear the story because I always wanna know how people became became so great. And it seems like your backstory, however horrible it is at the time moving forward, like you're saying, I'm still using those scenarios today.
31:55So hopefully somebody's encouraged to know like whatever situation you're in, you can either I guess let it kill you or you can use it. Right? With the webinars, what was your first like when did you say, okay, I'm gonna dive into this webinar space?
32:11Great question.
32:13So I was very lucky. I think a lot of a lot of success in this business, David, is just waiting around until you get lucky.
32:22No no joke. Right? Uh, most people, they hate luck so they they they deny it.
32:26And if you deny it, you'll never get it, which is ridiculous. Like, I love luck. Right?
32:31I want as much luck as possible. For sure. And if I gotta wait to get it, I'll wait.
32:36It'll come around eventually. So I saw webinars before they became big, and I knew they were gonna become big.
32:42I just had this feeling. The problem was they weren't quite there yet. The technology didn't support them.
32:48Uh, you do a webinar and there was like a 60% chance that it would crash before you were over with, so it wasn't usable yet. And Internet connections were too slow. So I'm like, it's only a matter of time before the technology gets fixed and the connections catch up.
33:02Got it. So I'm like, let me let me be the first there when the timing is right. And here's the benefit, David, that I have that most of your listeners probably have right now.
33:11It's the benefit of being new. Yeah. People think that's a huge disadvantage.
33:15Well, I'm new. I don't have a reputation. I don't have any resources that I've developed.
33:19No assets. Blah blah blah. Yada yada yada.
33:21K? The the best thing about being new is you got a fresh set of eyes. So, like, Tesla becomes the biggest in the automotive industry because they weren't in the automotive industry.
33:31Right? Mhmm. Old dog, new tricks.
33:33Those two don't mix. And so I most of the guys that started doing webinars were taking what they did on teleseminars and saying, oh, let's just put some slides to it.
33:41Right? Other dudes that were speaking on stage say it's kinda like selling from the stage, only we'll do it online. Since I had no success really in either of those areas, I started with a blank sheet.
33:52And I said, let me figure this out from the ground up. So I simultaneously was there when when the whole thing was popped off Yeah.
33:59And I didn't have any previous experience. So it was a question of anything and everything could be tested and it didn't matter. Uh, I didn't have to make it work right away because like I'm new.
34:11Any if I made a thousand dollars on a webinar, I was the happiest kid on the block, man. It's like nowadays, I don't get dressed for less than a half $1,000,000. It's stupid, you know.
34:20It's like, come on, man. We all need to humble back down. The flex.
34:24I like it. I like it. Alright.
34:27So I I I really need to get into like how it works because it seems like you've you're well read meaning you study people. And I think most of us especially myself we think if we spend enough time on the product Yeah.
34:43It will sell itself and nothing sells itself in my experience. Yeah.
34:47Stuff just doesn't sell itself. Right? How give I wanna know like the beginning from start to finish creating a product to making a half 1,000,000,000 or a quarter of $1,000,000,000.
35:00Where do I go to start this webinar? What are the first things I need to consider? Yeah.
35:04So the ideal is sell something that doesn't exist yet and then have your audience created alongside of you. What? Yeah.
35:12So how do you know what is a good product? You only really know once you put it in front of an audience and see how they interact with Anything we create in the laboratory is just a guess.
35:24But we put it in front of somebody and see what happens. Know, when they stick it up their nose, you're like, okay, we gotta stop them from doing that. So let's let's not make it so they can stick it up their nose next time, you know.
35:35So we need to figure that out as fast as possible so we can iterate to the best product. Um, now, the good news too is then we spend less time on guessing at what the best product is and more time on working with customers, which is where the real action is at.
35:49So the best webinar, and I use this still still to this day over and over again, I have this idea. I don't know if it will work or not. Would you like to find out with me?
35:59Here's the good news. If it does work, you're gonna get it at the cheapest price ever, and I'm gonna give you the most attention because I need to get my hands dirty working with you to iron this out.
36:09So I'll never be this available when it comes to this ever again. Now that You tell them that. I tell them that.
36:15I said, now the downside is I don't know if it'll work. We might have to teach something three or four or five times in a row. I don't know how many sessions it'll be, right?
36:23It's gonna be pure chaos but if you're okay with that, we're taking on a limited test group of people so I can work very hands on to figure out if this even will work or not. And that's where we start. Right?
36:34This is beautiful. Why didn't you tell me that? You didn't tell me that.
36:37You didn't tell me that for sure.
36:39That is good. And it's just you one you're making this whole webinar thing more approachable because it's almost like I'm getting a group of people together to build with me when initially I look at it as, oh wow, I gotta get these people together to sell at them.
36:55Yeah. So it's with not at. I like how you put that.
36:58Right? Like, let's if they're involved in the selling process and the creation process, that in and of itself makes it more valuable because they feel like they're part of the outcome versus I've already come up with the outcome and now let me shove it down your throat which is what most marketers do.
37:13Okay. Okay. So the the objective is to come up with a product and I would imagine what you're saying is don't over promise.
37:25Yeah. Because it seems like in the beginning you're like, hey guys, I got this really good idea and I really think it's gonna help you. If it doesn't, my bad.
37:32But if it does Yeah. Let's keep working together. That's right.
37:35That's right. Yeah. You just set me free, Jason.
37:37That's all you need to do, David. Right? You say, I come up with this idea.
37:40I don't know if it'll work or not. If it does work, oh my God, it's amazing. If it doesn't work, here's all it's gonna cost you in terms of time and money.
37:46No matter what, you're gonna be better off and I only wanna take a small group of people on initially so I can be very hands on with you. Gotcha.
37:54How do how the heck do we get the people to the webinar? How do we get people to like be in the audience?
38:01So here's the ideal. Um, and in fact, I recommend with very few exceptions, everybody does this. You should have an audience already in advance of doing your first webinar.
38:11Okay. So you can just push a button and say, hey, all of you over there, some of you should come over here. When you say have an audience, what does that mean?
38:18So it's like if you got a following on social media, that's good enough. It's harder on social media because everybody's all pulled in 16 different directions.
38:26I'd rather you have an email list. Right? Okay.
38:29So like, have an email list. If you don't have an email list, find somebody else who does have an email list, work a deal with them. If you can't find that out, get an email list by selling a very cheap product that people can pay money for, and now you build a customer list and then you do a webinar to them.
38:45That's the challenge. It's like if I assume David that you could very easily get in front of a lot of people quickly right now. Is that fair to say?
38:52Probably.
38:53Yeah. For sure. Like
38:55when you do a podcast, people listen. Right?
38:57Yes. So at one of your podcast could be, I have this crazy idea, you wanna join me at the end of the podcast, I'm gonna tell you where to go so you can try this experiment out with me.
39:09And then you could get people that way. So I would have them opt in first to something, give them some information, and then do a webinar to them after you get enough of them in a room at the same time.
39:19Because the problem if there's not enough people on the webinar, there's like a lack of energy. Nobody wants to eat at an empty restaurant. So like, you gotta bring enough people in.
39:28Yeah. And then that energy is powerful in and of itself. So, you know, it doesn't need many.
39:32Give me 50, give me a 100. I can work magic with that. So whatever you need to do to put like a bunch of people in a space all at once, do that.
39:41Got it. Until you can do that, don't do a webinar. Get that first and then do a webinar.
39:47Otherwise, if you're trying to catch us, catch can, you're spending more time out there chasing people down and now you're out of your zone of genius. You're not in the moment to be able to present to them. So
39:56if I am Johnny nobody, I got no followers but I have this idea where I don't know I wanna write a book on mental health and I really wanna help people with their mental health. I write a book, I don't have an email address, email list yet now but I write an ebook, make it inexpensive and do my very best to get it in the hands of as many people as possible.
40:20Yep.
40:21So I start collecting an email list. That's right. Yep.
40:24Okay. That's a good start. The hack to this is you go to somebody and say, dude, I wanna work for you for free.
40:30Yeah. I'm gonna I'm gonna totally help you out over here with x y z one, two, three. I'm gonna make your customers love you even more.
40:37I'm gonna do all of these things for you that are gonna make you look good in exchange for that. Just give me a little bio link. Meaning that if people wanna know more about me, can go here and then they can opt in for something.
40:47And so you show up and you serve somebody else's audience and you will get an audience as a result of that. You just have to humble yourself enough to do the work for free. Yeah.
40:56That's it. Free is cheaper than any other option, in my opinion, if you do that. Um, and and, you know, I would even recommend you work deals with them.
41:03Hey. I wanna train your audience. Let me get in front of them.
41:06Not even to sell them something. Not even to get an opt in. Because by the way, dude, if you get a list of people you can't serve, I don't want you to have that list.
41:15You better be able to serve them. Right? So prove you can serve it first.
41:20So go and and do some service for somebody else. And then if that works, step two is do the service again. Find a way to share in the deal flow with them where you give them a cut, but you do all the work.
41:29Right. And then from there you could keep trading up. That's the answer.
41:32People wanna over complicate it. I mean, we could go to Facebook and try to give another, billion dollar corporation and more billions of dollars and then push all these buttons and play with all these knobs and levers.
41:43Right? Or we can just go where are the people at? How can I help them?
41:47Start with 10, man. Start with 5. That's good.
41:50Straight up. That's good.
41:52Got the product. I'm getting this email list. Right?
41:55I decide I wanna do a webinar. What do I do?
42:01Uh, Yeah. So the first webinar you should do shouldn't be to sell somebody something for most people out there. Now if you're a successful business, if you've done it in other avenues, then yeah, you're probably overdue, you should sell.
42:10But if you're a brand new person, the idea is here, hey, this ebook I wrote over here or this thing I created over there, I wanna do I wanna teach it to you in a different modality. I wanna try to teach it to you live. I don't know if I can do it or not.
42:24I think I can do it. If I can do it, think this is this is the way that it will help you. But find out.
42:30If I can't do it, at least it'll be entertaining as you watch me flop and flounder around. Right? But if I can't do it, you get it for free.
42:38I'll probably sell it later. You get it for free if you're willing to be part of my science experiment. Is this something Jason because it seems like all the people that
42:46are saying, hey, follow me learn from me are saying, I've got it all figured out. I'm mister and missus perfect.
42:53Follow me. This is why. Yeah.
42:55Is there a psychological reason why you're saying to kinda downplay my expertise?
43:00Yeah. There's like three reasons. Reason number one is if you say the same thing as everybody else, you're only gonna get as good as everybody else.
43:07Like, I I can Xerox the Mona Lisa, it doesn't make it better, it makes it worse. If I paint a mustache on the Mona Lisa, it definitely makes it worse. Right?
43:15So like, I'm not gonna fix the Mona Lisa, I wanna create a different piece of art. So in in marketing, saying the same thing as everybody else is a huge disadvantage. So be different to be different.
43:26Different is better than better. And so that's the first reason. That's reason number one.
43:29Reason number two is the psychological component. Most people stop themselves from even starting.
43:35And why? They put too much pressure on themselves. So the model I'm giving you takes all the pressure off.
43:41Hey, I might screw it up. You wanna find out? That just makes you a better operator for so that's the second reason.
43:47The third reason is I believe that it is a stronger marketing communication than the other reasons. Because people wanna be part of something.
43:56They wanna be part of the creative process. They love the drama and the tension and the excitement.
44:02It's more believable. What's more believable? I will make you successful or I might make you successful.
44:08It's more believable. So that's how we're breaking it down. Now, stuff took me like twelve years to figure out.
44:13Right? Everything is obvious in hindsight. But to your point, David, I'm glad you picked up on this.
44:18There's a lot of reasoning on how we're positioning it this way. And really, all good marketing is done through momentum.
44:25So a snowflake triggers an avalanche. And so we need to we just need to get the first piece of momentum going.
44:33Think about it from this perspective. My biggest marketing campaigns came out of these test groups Okay. Where We good?
44:39We good? My biggest marketing campaign ever was we took 18 people and we said, I don't know if this will work or you know the spiel. Right?
44:46All 18 of them were successful. Come on, man. You you could put a d minus marketing student in front of that campaign and they're gonna spit out million dollars.
44:54Right? It's like, hey, I got Bugatti's in the back. They're only a $100,000.
44:58You don't have to be a good salesman to sell that kind of stuff. You know? It's like, that's what we did.
45:02So it creates better marketing if you can pull it off. And you learn faster. You can fail faster if you're gonna fail and oftentimes it's in between.
45:10You see something that can make an adjustment and you'll learn more doing that than you ever will study in or listening to me talk. Got it. Got it.
45:17Okay. Slides or no slides? Whatever gets the webinar done fastest.
45:23Right? The first webinars I ever did, David, we're on a mind map. I don't even know what that is.
45:27Yeah. Nobody does anymore, man. I'm like in internet marketing years, I'm a 172 years old, man.
45:33It's like, I was just clicking things and, you know, expanding and contracting different points, it was all text. Yeah. Yeah.
45:40So a good message is a good message. Yeah. So if you have the answer to somebody's problem, whether you put it in a brown paper bag and slang it on the corner or you put it in a museum with all the lights on it.
45:51Right? The message is still the message. So we want the message first before we do anything else.
45:57So a life changing message, you could say that through a tin can connected to a piece of string that somebody holds up to their air, and it's gonna change their life. Until we have that, everything else is unimportant. So whatever you gotta do to get the message in its form to be shippable, we do that, And then we assess, and then if it's good, we go back and now we beef it up.
46:15Now we can add slides to it. Now we can build on it. Now we can do other things.
46:18But some of my best webinars, David, have been just like this. Just talking to people with no slides whatsoever. Yeah.
46:25Got it. But do you recommend slides at a certain point though? For most people slides are gonna be their best thing.
46:31Give me the psychology behind it. Yeah. So people they lose 92% of what they hear after they hear it.
46:41People lose 92% of what they hear after they hear it. Yep.
46:46So if we were to have somebody say, hey listen, up into this point without looking at your notes, rattle back 15 things that Jason has said on this podcast. And they get to five, and then they'd be like, uh, I don't remember. Right?
46:58Right. And so consciously no, subconsciously, we retain it all.
47:02But consciously, we lose 92 of the information the first time we hear it. Here's what we don't lose, the feeling that we had when we heard it.
47:09So this is why emotional states are very important. We haven't talked about that yet. Uh, but the visuals that you speak out loud, if you can if you say the same thing on a slide with the words and nothing else, it increases their ability to recall and remember it.
47:25It it it doubles the comprehension rate or more than that. Even if it's literally the same words that you're speaking, but they're also on the screen. And so here's what's even better about this, and I teach this in my webinars.
47:37When I transitioned from education to selling, I first remind them of all the cool stuff that had happened. Now I do I call it sixty minutes and sixty seconds.
47:47So if I just did sixty minutes of my best material, how can I run it back in sixty seconds?
47:53Oh, all the all the things All the highlights.
47:55Right? Because I know my audience no matter what wisdom I was dropping when it comes down to the pitch, they ain't gonna remember anything I just said. Right?
48:02So I gotta remind them of that, right? I gotta remind myself of that. I I forgot what I was saying in minute one, two, three, and four, and five.
48:09And so the slides, here's where they're good. You could say, so far on this webinar today, we've covered, and then you you throw up this slide, you throw up that slide, you throw up this slide, you throw up that slide, and you hit fifteen, twenty slides in order. We we went through this, and I showed you this, and now you know this, and now you know not to do that, and what about this, and remember this and that, that.
48:24And so they still don't consciously remember the material, but it re triggers the emotional state that they were experienced when you showed that material. So slides make good anchors as we like to call them, and so you wanna have those visuals.
48:36Here's the other way slides work really good, show and tell. So I could say, uh, I'll give you a great example.
48:42I told this to Russell Brunson when he was first, uh, getting ClickFunnels off the ground. They acquired a bonus, Traffic Secrets is what's the name of the bonus?
48:51Uh, he paid John Reese, the guy who created the product. I'm sorry. They acquired a bonus.
48:56What do you mean? Yeah. Good question.
48:57Right? So think about ClickFunnels. What's an objection?
49:00Well, I have ClickFunnels, but how do I drive traffic to it? So, you know, I taught Russell and and so many other people this concept is your bonuses should handle the objections. And so one of the objection, you need traffic.
49:12So he went out there and he acquired a course, the rights to a course that somebody else had created called Traffic Secrets. Oh, wow. Yeah.
49:18A guy named John Reese, who's an OG in this game. He's the first million dollar day in this business. Right?
49:22Back when that was a lot of money. Right? Good job.
49:26And so he paid Russell? Smart. He paid John a million dollars for this bonus.
49:31Here's what I told Russell to do. I said, show the money. He said, what do you mean?
49:35I said, show the damn wire transfer. Put it on a slide. Because now Russell can say this.
49:39This bonus was so important that I went out and spent a million dollars of my own money. So the value of this bonus to me is worth a million dollars and you're gonna get it for free when you buy ClickFunnels.
49:50Right? But it's one thing to say I paid a million dollars for it. It's another thing to show the receipts.
49:57Right? Was talking with Alex Sermosy about this the other week because he called me up because he's like, dude, Jason, you're the best in the world. I know what offers, and the guy wrote the best selling book on offers.
50:05So cool. Right? Uh, and and he was like and he was talking about something.
50:09He's like, and I'm gonna show the receipts like you talked about. I'm gonna show this thing that I'm doing right over here. I'm like, that's my boy right there.
50:15Wow. So so take what you're saying and show the proof. Yeah.
50:19Here's my attitude. I wanna you know, if you're on trial for a murder you didn't commit, David, and we got 26 witnesses that could put you at a different place.
50:28Mhmm. And if I'm your lawyer and say, we'll just call two of them. That should be good enough.
50:32Right? You better fire my ass quick. Right?
50:34We're calling all 26 witnesses. We're calling them all.
50:38For sure. So we're gonna bring as much proof as we can to validate the claims we make on the webinars, and that's the biggest mistake I see people making. So from a visual aspect, show as much as you possibly can.
50:48Got it. Got it. Okay.
50:50So, um, I I think you said earlier that the webinar should be sixty to seventy five minutes Content. Of content.
50:59Yeah. And then
51:01what's the other part? The best part.
51:07Uh, we we close. Yeah. So here's the here's the dynamics.
51:10It's generally, I run out of slides about ninety minutes in. So you do your formal offer where you say, this is my program. This is what it is.
51:17This is where it does. This is what it should cost. This is the special deal you get if you act fast enough by going to this URL.
51:23When you go to this URL, you get these bonuses. Here's the risk involved. Here's how we remove the risk.
51:27You know, that's your structural formal close. Right? But then here's what happens.
51:32You got all these people still on the webinar who ain't left yet, and you gotta chat and they're still communicating in And that's when the real webinar starts. So we're ninety minutes in and that's when I I think the real webinar begins. That's where the real
51:45webinar starts. That's where the real money is After you made the pitch and people are still waiting. Yep.
51:49Because some people get off as soon as the pitch comes. Yeah.
51:53Good riddance.
51:56I mean, dude, man, some people you could you could open up the the path to heaven for them and they would complain that they gotta climb the stairs to get there, you know. It's like we don't sell for the people that don't understand the value of anything. We sell to the people that get it.
52:09So I'm not even trying to save those fools, you know. Um, if you get offended by me trying to sell you something, then you've sold yourself on something, which is the value of nothing. And we work with the people that get it.
52:22So most people here's here's the truth, and everybody gets this wrong, which I love it. Uh, and I've teach people this and all the time they go, I can't believe that word, Jason. I'm like, why can't you believe that word?
52:31Right? I've taught this stuff for ten years now. Why why wouldn't you think otherwise?
52:35Because one of the techniques I teach is you you you drop the price and you do your first call to action like five minutes into your pitch. Here's what most people do David.
52:46I'm sorry. Say that again. Yeah.
52:47Yeah. This is super important. You do the call to action five minutes into
52:52the pitch. When I'm selling something, when you thought you've seen 100% of it, I've only actually shown you 10% of it.
53:02So I I show you the whole offer, you think you know the deal, I say go here to sign up, here's what here's what the investment is. You think you know the whole deal. Right?
53:08Because why not? I just given you the call to action and the price. Right.
53:12You don't know 90% of my offer, I haven't even made it yet.
53:17Give an example. Give me an example. Okay.
53:19Because this guy definitely knew. Yeah.
53:22Yeah. Justin learned it from me. Right?
53:24He he got it. And and Justin can speak, nobody else does this but me. Right?
53:28And they do it because they learned it from me. People are biologically programmed to say no almost always, even if it's the best thing ever for them.
53:38People wanna say no as a defense mechanism. If you live off the people that only say yes as soon as you put something in front of them, you're gonna make this much money. The real money is made from the those that that start with no and then turn into yes.
53:51K? So if I know no matter what I do, you're gonna say no anyway, I want you to get that no out of your system right away. So we can get down to business.
53:59Right? So so we can actually unpack it and figure out if it makes sense or not. So they say a person needs to say no on average 26 times before they say yes to something.
54:09Golly, the whole webinar will be over. Well, so I do 26 calls to action. So they can get 26 no's out of the way and then I Really?
54:17Oh, hell yeah, dude. We ain't playing around. There's lives and money to be made here.
54:22Right? There's lives to save and money to make. We ain't playing around.
54:25You have 26 opportunities for them to tell you no. Yeah.
54:29Yeah. And your objective is to hear the no. Hell yeah, man.
54:33Yeah. No to me sounds like this k n o w like I need to know more information.
54:40That. So when I'm selling, if I know they're gonna say no, if I show you everything and then get a know where am I gonna go from there? I got nowhere to go.
54:47By the way, if I do my whole pitch and I end on price, I have you focused on price. Yeah. If I start with price and end on value, I have you focused on value.
54:56Right? Yes. That's where I want you at because the price is irrelevant, man.
55:00For some things, a dollar is too much, and for other things, a million dollars isn't enough. And so I gotta put it into proper perspective so you can understand that. So my pitch when I start, I show them the bare minimum.
55:11Here's what it is, here's what it does, here's why this is awesome, here's what it should cost, here's what it normally costs, here's a special deal for you if you act fast enough, go here and get it. And that's the first pitch. Right?
55:22And and and that's the call to action, and people think they know the deal. They think, okay, well, if I spend $2,000, I get this, and then they start to play this mental jujitsu.
55:32I I want it, but it looks good. So they're already kind of open to the idea of buying it. They're trying to talk themselves into it, so they're already open to it, and they haven't even seen the best part yet.
55:43I want them in that frame of mind. Everybody else is scared out of their mind, David, because they're like, they're gonna I'm gonna ask you for money, you're gonna say no, and then you're gonna run the other way, and I'm never gonna see you again. That's what most people But the reality is do a webinar, make your offer and watch how few people leave the first time you ask for their money.
55:59Now you're right. There are those jump shippers that'll get off right away. But once you account for those once they're done, look who stays.
56:06Most people will stay. Wow. Okay.
56:09So are you saying after you give them the offer, that's not the real offer?
56:16Nope. Dude, who's your favorite comedian?
56:20I
56:22would have to say Dave Chappelle. Oh, yeah. Me too, man.
56:24Yeah. Does Dave Chappelle leave with his best joke or does he end with his best joke?
56:30Definitely ends because he'll like he'll somehow wrap the whole Yeah.
56:36Hour special
56:37The fourth time I met OJ. Right? Right.
56:39Yeah. Yeah. Right.
56:40He Right. Builds up to it. You end with your best material.
56:43The rest is the setup. The rest is the setup to the punchline. Right?
56:46Every good comedian knows you save your your best material for the end or you try to. So you start hot and you end hot. And that's what we do.
56:54We start hot, but we end even hotter. And so my best stuff is the bonuses. It's not the core offer, and we end with the bonuses.
57:01We end with the value. So that's the stack. That's the pitch.
57:04And then even after that's done, people need to know, now should I buy this or not? So ninety minutes gets us all the way there. So, you know, seventy five minutes of content and then fifteen minutes of the formal pitch.
57:15Here's what it is, what it does, blah blah blah. And then you got a whole bunch of people who still they've only said no four or five or six times at this point. Now we deal with objections which is where the real difference is on whether somebody buys or not.
57:26A a sell that's 99% closes worth exactly $0. So we gotta get that 1% and that's why we stay on for those extra hour, two hour, three hours, four hours in some instances depending on if the audience is still there, depending on if I got enough energy or not.
57:44Yeah. This is so good because I think when I was doing my offer,
57:48I'm telling all the stuff that's in it, all the bonuses Nobody cares. Why you need to get it Nobody cares. Get and I'm I'm I'm looking to see how many people bought right now.
57:59Yeah.
58:01That's too early to expect money. You're planting the tree and then you're wondering why it didn't grow in the next minute, right? We gotta give it time to grow.
58:08Wow. Yeah. Yeah.
58:10Is this is deep stuff here. This is real psych you study psychology a lot? Yeah.
58:17That's what I went to school for for the one and a half semesters I made it.
58:22This is this is really really good. Thanks, man. So you know, I I was I was actually on the phone with somebody.
58:28Who was it? And they were talking about like making an offer but it's like her first offer ever and she's like,
58:36I feel like it's manipulation. Is it? Here's the cool thing.
58:43If she felt that way, right? This is how I would coach her. She was my student.
58:47Mhmm. I would have her say on the webinar, I'm about to make you an offer right now. Here's the problem.
58:52I'm afraid that what I'm doing is manipulation. And I'm concerned that if I make this offer, you're gonna look at me as somebody who's manipulating you. And that's a problem because I don't wanna do that.
59:01So here's my issue. If I don't make you this offer at all, I simply can't help you any further. I have to hope you do it on your own, or I have to run the risk of being viewed as a manipulator, but still try to make it the very best offer I can.
59:13So if you will put up with me as I try to do my best here and hopefully I don't manipulate you, Would it be okay if I showed you what I had? But most people argue that even that is manipulation. It's total manipulation.
59:25The fact the fact that like there's a certain way
59:29that I have to do something to get the result from you. Now, I understand it.
59:35Right? And it's a I
59:38know I need to be manipulated to get me to do something that I otherwise wouldn't do on my own. So like if you look up the word manipulation in the the dictionary, it says to turn something into something else essentially. It doesn't have a moral or ethical connection to it.
59:54We attach it because we often see manipulation only when it's done nefariously, or that's the ones that remind us the most.
1:00:03But, uh, you know, I got two kids. Right? And if I don't manipulate them, they're gonna manipulate me.
1:00:07Right? That's a fact. Somebody's gonna lose in that situation.
1:00:10Right? They're either manipulating me to eat candy and stay up all night. Right?
1:00:13Or I'm manipulating them to eat vegetables and go to bed early. Right? Right.
1:00:17And so so manipulation is if you wanna be successful, you have to manipulate yourself from a lower state of being into a higher state of being. The the real issue here isn't manipulation.
1:00:27The real issue here is authenticity. And so when somebody's selling, very often the resistance they have to their audience is they feel like they're being inauthentic. That's the real issue.
1:00:36It's not manipulation, it's inauthenticity. So we train people to be authentic and still sell.
1:00:41So people that are afraid to sell, what I always coach them to do is tell your audience, I'm scared to sell you right now. If you hear my voice crack, if you see me shake and shiver, it's because I'm scared out of my mind right now. But the but I'm willing to put my own personal comfort on the line because what I have to you is that important.
1:01:00And I tell them, go, I wish I could close like that. I can't close like that. I would sell better if I could close that way because we're taking what is true about them and communicating it in a way that can land as strong as possible with the audience.
1:01:12Wow. Yep.
1:01:14Let's talk about, uh, pricing structure. Do you charge for a webinar or should it be free?
1:01:22Free. Yeah. Free?
1:01:24Definitely. Definitely. Yeah.
1:01:26I mean, I remember Never a case where it should be Not never a case. Right? There's certain instances.
1:01:31Sometimes you wanna mix it up just to mix it up. If you do too many free webinars, people start to predict you, you wanna be unpredictable. So you should charge for certain webinars some of the time.
1:01:39But in general, most of your webinars should be free because I would rather get the audience in the door and then do my best to show them upfront that I'm valuable Yeah. And then sell them something. The risk is on me.
1:01:52If somebody pays me upfront, the risk is on them. So as much as possible, I'm trying to incur risk on the behalf of my audience as I possibly can. Um, but, you know, what what I always tell people, David, is whatever gets the webinar out the door fastest.
1:02:04If you wanna charge, charge for it. They say, Jason, should I use this platform or that platform? I say, I don't care, dude.
1:02:10Can people see you at your best right now? Can you help people? That's the answer.
1:02:15Whatever gets you in front of an audience as fast as possible. So pay or free, but usually free will do better than paid. Gotcha.
1:02:23Every webinar should have an offer at the end? No, not necessarily.
1:02:27Um, you should do webinars that train as well, but where you put the most effort into are the webinars that do have offers at the end. There should always be a call to action at the end. If the call to action is go here and and do this thing, not buy this thing, you should always give direction on what to do next, not just dress people up with no place to go.
1:02:46Got it. Got it. Okay.
1:02:48And let's talk about this offer to back end. Where we're at right now in the space, um, or or how much should you how much should that back end offer be if that's the right question?
1:03:01It's a good question.
1:03:03I'm different than most people in this space, David, and I'm not saying it's for strategical consideration. A lot of businesses, it's your planet, you should make up your own rules. Right?
1:03:12So the money only gets you this far. Yeah. Like you wanna do it in a way that serves you and makes you feel good.
1:03:17So I'm a kind of guy that if I'm gonna sell you something, I'm gonna sell you something. I'm not gonna chunk it into pieces and string you along and have upsells and downsells and cross sells and all this kind of stuff. I also have massive ADHD, so there's too many pieces involved for my mind to handle it.
1:03:30I'll short circuit. Right? So I don't do much back end stuff.
1:03:34Uh, I just capture the the thickness of the market right in one swoop on the front end. Right. Uh, but most people can't do that.
1:03:41They're gonna need a back end. They're gonna need somebody to take a step, not just jump to the top. Um, and so in that particular instance, a good rule of thumb is 10% of 10.
1:03:52So whatever your audience is, 10% of that audience will pay 10 times as much.
1:03:59So I said, it's 10% 10 x for 10%. K? 1010% of your audience will pay 10 times as much for something if it's just slightly pointed more specifically towards them.
1:04:11Okay. K? So and I can give you examples.
1:04:14So 10% of a podcast audience who paid you $2,000 would pay you $20,000 if you made an offer specifically just for them.
1:04:23So if you think about it, you sell a thousand people, your podcast training, a 100 of them or maybe even only 10 of them, um, they're already successful in some aspect, or they've already got something going for them that nobody else does. So if you cater specifically to that audience within the audience, they don't need much.
1:04:41They just need something specific that can help them. So what do rich people need more than anything else?
1:04:47Time. Time. That's exactly right.
1:04:49So if we take your core offer on the front end and we find a way to make it 10 times faster, they'll pay 10 times as much money for it. Okay.
1:04:58So what's a good numb like is there and I think I saw it somewhere before like there's a sweet spot of a sales. Like if I'm coming to you say, Jason, okay, I wanna help people.
1:05:09Yeah. And whatever number you tell me to make the offer, I'll make it and we'll pack that offer with value.
1:05:18Yep.
1:05:19What should that number be? What's a good range? Yeah.
1:05:22So there's always price ceilings in any industry to sell in mass where you're not getting on the phone one to one. Uh, if you're starting off, I want you to be under that price ceiling by a little bit because if you overprice, you're screwed.
1:05:35I'd rather you underprice and then raise the price because you still got momentum and you still got you you made people a really good deal. You've taught people that buy from me sooner is better than buying from me later. Right?
1:05:45Uh, so I I prefer to go under the bar and then raise the price when it's obvious to me that the market and the value is there. But as quickly as possible, we wanna hit that price ceiling. So in most markets that you're selling results for, $2,000 is your price ceiling in mass.
1:06:01So Oh, okay. So we say, how do we make a $20,000 offer and somehow get it down to 2,000.
1:06:07Right? Not most people do the opposite. How do we take as little as possible and inflate it to $2,000?
1:06:12So we get we go from an impossible offer to a barely possible offer. We know the price threshold is 2,000. For whatever reason, you get over that and people act weird about it.
1:06:22You know, people are people. It's funny. Right?
1:06:24Yeah. And so that's where we that's where we've tried to start at as fast as possible is at the upper threshold of what the market can bear in mass. Yeah.
1:06:32And then we do try to break it. Then we see can we break past the price ceiling or not. But we don't do that until we hit the price ceiling first.
1:06:39Got it. Got it. Okay.
1:06:42What I I think I wanna do another interview with you. I wanna like try some of the stuff.
1:06:47Yeah. And then come back and tell you what isn't working. How many do I need like a a thousand slides?
1:06:55How many you got? How many slides you got? 350 slides.
1:06:59Yeah, baby. The more the better or Yeah.
1:07:03Here's the problem, David. You're not gonna start there probably. I'm sure Justin didn't start with 350 slides.
1:07:08Did you start with 350 slides? How many do like a 100? Most people start with about a 100 slides, which ain't enough, but it's better than nothing.
1:07:15Right? Here's the rule of thumb, one point per slide. And so if you ever see a slide with like three bullet points on it, that should be three slides with one bullet point on them.
1:07:23Really? Yeah. It's just I don't even do it because it's like, I don't floss twice a day either even though I know I should, you know.
1:07:29It's like, sometimes you gotta get it out the door. But ideally, the more slides, the better. But remember what I said earlier, start with the message first.
1:07:36Have a rock solid offer, a really good message, and then you wanna break it down and have many different slides. You wanna ideally have motion, something happening on the screen that's changing Mhmm.
1:07:46Every three seconds.
1:07:48Really? Yeah. So when I get to a point, I'm talking about the thing.
1:07:55The thing. Yeah.
1:07:57I I don't leave it there for three seconds. So you're saying that Damn,
1:08:01damn. Yeah.
1:08:03Oh, or
1:08:05all of the stuff that I'm talking about as regards to this slide should be broken up into like 20 more slides because of what I'm saying. Mostly. Yeah.
1:08:14So it's like even at the beginning of I say on today's webinar, we're gonna discuss this. That's a slide. We're also gonna discuss that.
1:08:19That's a slide. We're also gonna break down blank. That's a slide.
1:08:22We're also gonna uncover blank. That's a slide. Like four slides right there.
1:08:25And how fast did I say that? Just like that. Right?
1:08:28Yeah. Why? Why?
1:08:30Because when you most of us grew up watching TV. Right? The kids today don't even watch TV anymore.
1:08:35It's even worse. Right? But the average programming in television was to have a camera angle change every three seconds.
1:08:42Oh, wow. And that's where they've learned that that typically will keep engagement at its highest when they're always changing camera angles every three seconds. So we never quite get there because you think these TV shows are produced with a whole team of people.
1:08:54We're we're like, most of us are lone solopreneurs. Yeah. But we wanna have movement as much as we possibly can.
1:09:00So bam bam bam bam bam. If you don't do it any other place, do it in the first two minutes of your webinar because people make a decision within the first two minutes whether they're gonna stay or not for a majority of your webinar. So if there's ever movement, it should be right away.
1:09:12Now, David, if you watch webinars, do the opposite. The first minute and a half, they sit there and they just talk. Yada yada yada, blah blah blah, the title slide forever.
1:09:22Boring. Right? It should you should grab them by the throat within the first two seconds of that webinar starting.
1:09:28Got it.
1:09:30We're on this boat again that I probably should have been on. And, I asked you a question.
1:09:36As you said, you you work with people who have an offer already. Yep.
1:09:42And then you come in and you do the presentation or you do the pitch or what? Sometimes, yeah. Okay.
1:09:48And I was talking about your audience and my question for you was, have you done it with black audience?
1:09:55No. And you said you want to? I do.
1:09:58Yes.
1:09:59And do you think there will be a difference in strategy?
1:10:06Yeah. Absolutely. How so?
1:10:08Uh, I don't know if it was Justin I was talking to. It might have been Taz I was talking to, uh, another Your students. God.
1:10:14Yeah. Everybody's
1:10:15killing it. Alright. Can I be a student first off?
1:10:18Yeah. For sure. Thank you.
1:10:21I'm gonna go get the book. Order the book. What's the book?
1:10:23One to many. One to many. That'd be the first the foundation of the okay.
1:10:27Yeah. K. Order one to many.
1:10:29One to many. Let's order it. Okay.
1:10:31Go ahead. Yeah. So I was telling I was telling Taz, and this is hard for me to communicate, David.
1:10:36I I So can imagine. It's gonna be very delicate here and I'll probably say stupid stuff that I don't mean because it's very it's a very complicated subject. Right?
1:10:44But I I I you know, Black Wall Street, you know, Black Wall Street. Right?
1:10:51Tulsa. Yeah. I said, some of that into the presentation, man.
1:10:55Speak to the audience Yeah. From that perspective. Because that's a unique perspective you can bring in that nobody else can bring to that audience.
1:11:02Right? So bring them back to that, pull that into that, bring those stakes up, take it to the next level, you know.
1:11:10Uh, I told her I used to do this David, when I was learning how to speak, I studied Martin Luther King speeches. Yeah. I used to have portions of I have a dream memorized.
1:11:18And I'm like, I wanna speak like that. So bring that because that's what the culture is used to. I wanna communicate to the culture in the way that they're used to being communicated within the confines of what I can say to it.
1:11:31Right? Like, can't talk about being a medical doctor because I'm not a medical doctor. Right?
1:11:36But as much as possible, if I can speak not just in content to the communication, but to the context of the audience, the better I'm gonna be.
1:11:46And so and I told Tess, I'm like, that's something you can do that nobody else can do. I can't do it. All of these old white guys that are running the game right now, they can't do that.
1:11:55So you have an advantage that they don't, so use it. Gotcha. You know?
1:12:00And so there's and there's many of instances, most of which I talk privately to him that I don't feel comfortable bringing up publicly. Because I will say it in a way that we take it out of context.
1:12:10You're take that one clip and die already. Yeah. They will.
1:12:12Right? But but I brought it to I brought it to him like that. And I I was like, these are the things that you could put in your presentation that are missing right now.
1:12:19And people would resonate with that. Give me one. Me one.
1:12:22Yeah. So like Safe space. You talk about Jim Crow laws.
1:12:25Right? And the segregation between you know, black people can only drink out of this water fountain and white people can only drink out of that water fountain. Right?
1:12:32Information has been discriminated for for for centuries the same way. And the the Internet has changed that.
1:12:42The Internet has democratized information in a way never seen before. So you take people who are oppressed and you give them the opportunity, the only thing that will stop them is their belief that they're still oppressed.
1:12:54So you know the whole flea in a jar, you take the lid off and it can still only jump this high. All you gotta do is show them the the lids off. Now you go at it.
1:13:02Right? Yeah. That is, uh, that's real.
1:13:06But the information is now available when it wasn't before. And now you have that. And so people like Tess can break that through.
1:13:13Right? I mean, and then you can get to the other levels and again we gotta be very careful here. Right?
1:13:17Is like, who are the best basketball players of all time? Right?
1:13:23All of all of us.
1:13:25There you go. Right? And I mean, and we could just go down the line and and and who who are the influencers?
1:13:31Who are who are the leaders in in culture and in fashion? Look at the top 10 right now. Yeah.
1:13:37I mean, look at what hip hop and r and b have done for all of music. And even before that with rock and roll. Right?
1:13:42So so you can make the argument that you are at a huge advantage on social media, on Instagram, on these different platforms. They're more suited to the culture you grew up in.
1:13:54So you are now for the first time in your life at an advantage over everybody else. Oh my god.
1:13:59So don't squander it. That's the message that I would come if I was him. Right?
1:14:03You've been given a gift that has never been seen before in history. Don't squander it. I got it.
1:14:09Yeah, man. Now I can't say that as a white guy on a webinar. Right?
1:14:13But I could help Tez unpack that. Yes. Yeah.
1:14:15I got it. Especially for
1:14:17like the space that I'm in in terms of like podcasting. Our voices have been so restricted for so long and it was a point where if you wanted to get to the masses, someone in an office would have to say you're going to be the DJ.
1:14:32You're gonna be the radio host. You'll be the somebody has to point to you and say you can have it now. Yep.
1:14:38But now it's not like that. So I think and maybe some people will look at it as manipulation, but I think we need to wake up and realize that we didn't always have the privileges that we have now.
1:14:51And we still don't have the privileges that you think we have. Agreed. Absolutely.
1:14:55Pointing out these like making it a real conversation not just this is what you're gonna get at the end of this. That's exactly right.
1:15:03Yep. Good. Yeah.
1:15:04We I call that a holistic viewpoint.
1:15:06So we bring in everything we can, not just the tactical, not just the, you know, here's what you can do to build an ecommerce brand, here's what you can do to build a clothing brand. Right? We bring in all the stakes, not just a portion of the stakes.
1:15:17Because that's how people end up making decisions at the end of the day. It's not what moves them up here, it's what moves them down here. So we need to get this content in, but too much of this content is being created here.
1:15:26And then you know what does? Everybody copies it. It's like, where's the advantage to that?
1:15:30You know? Wow. Yeah, man.
1:15:32Yeah, man. You didn't think we're gonna go there today, did you? I had no idea.
1:15:35And I well, I guess I'd never know where I'm gonna go with a conversation, but this is really good.
1:15:40This is really, really good. Thanks, man. Okay.
1:15:42So, uh, your book, tell like, tell us about your book. How long you've read it?
1:15:48What's the success of it? Because I do want people to go buy the book. Like we don't have like something to offer.
1:15:52Like you don't have a webinar to offer right now. Right? No, unfortunately.
1:15:57I actually was like, yo, okay. This is a sales guy. Okay.
1:16:00Which means he has some sort of offer. Neil's like, yo, he doesn't. He's like, yo, he just wants to get the information out to people.
1:16:06And I really, really appreciated it.
1:16:09David, I've been wanting to do this for, you know, how long since we met in Miami. Right? For sure.
1:16:13Yeah. So the book one to many, like, Kindle, I think is $10. It's the synthesis of something that I created originally from a $5,000 in person training.
1:16:21My philosophy is get the rich to pay for the poor. So you take a bunch of multimillionaires and say, listen, you can wait for six months for me to write the book and pay $10 for it.
1:16:29You can pay me 5,000, I'll put you in a room and I'll teach it live. And so the book, the reason why it's been so successful is because it came from a $5,000 program. So in a $5,000 program, you create a framework because you gotta train on it in a way people can take action, like step by step.
1:16:43It's a workbook more than anything. It's a workbook that acts like it's a business book. And so that is the book, one to many.
1:16:50One and the main reason I'm out here in Atlanta is because a lot of young black entrepreneurs bought that book and were killing it and passing it around, telling each other to buy it. And I do I go to where I have the most impact.
1:17:01Yeah. And so all these guys are like, dude, I'm making a million dollars with this book. I'm making a million dollars.
1:17:05So I'm I'm like, I'm gonna come out that land of them. Right? Sure.
1:17:08Let me help some more guys make a million dollars. You didn't tell me to get the book.
1:17:12Did you know you did? No, you did. But stop trying to hide all the secrets, man.
1:17:18Okay.
1:17:21So One to Minute, is it a big book, little book? Yeah. It's big.
1:17:24It's like 300 and some pages. It's got a 160 different images and it's something like that because I'm showing slides.
1:17:30If I You know, show not tell. Yeah. Yeah.
1:17:32So it's not a whole bunch of small words. Oh, there's a lot of words in there. I'll tell you David what people like the most is I I do word for word closes.
1:17:41I'll give you one as an example. Right? So it's like this is a transition close people have trouble with.
1:17:46Like, if I'm going to teach and then I'm gonna sell, they don't know how to bridge that gap. So one of the closes that I use is I say, I'm faced with two choices today. Choice number one, I can just leave you and hope and pray that somehow on your own you find your way and you're successful in this, and I cross my fingers and say good luck.
1:18:00That's my first choice. Or choice choice number two, I can give you anything and everything I have at my disposal to help you to take an active role in your success to be accountable to your results. And if I did make you that option, I'd have to charge you for it.
1:18:13Given the decision between option one and option two, I choose option two. Here's what it's about. Right?
1:18:18And and I'm I'm doing this off of the top. Right? But I literally have better scripted words, word for word exact on how to say that.
1:18:26I've had people, David, that have printed out the closes in the book, have held them up in front of their audience and saying, my coach, Jason Fladlin, this is how he would sell you. I'm just gonna read it word for word, and they close that way, man.
1:18:38It's crazy, dude. Wow. Yeah.
1:18:40So there's pages and pages of closes in that book. Yeah. Goodness.
1:18:44Okay. Do we get it? Did you order the book?
1:18:46There you Okay. Good. Okay.
1:18:48We got we got the book. Okay. I'm listening, man.
1:18:50Headed to this million dollar a month because I and I think I'm the right person to be able to do this because I really love like, some people say it as sales, but I love helping people and I want to be like legendary when it comes to ushering people into this podcasting space.
1:19:12You're already legendary in my mind. Thank you, Jason. I appreciate it.
1:19:15Man, listen. Let everybody well, thank you so much. There's so many things I didn't get a chance to cover like the affiliates, the like how you connect with other people who have offers like how which leads us into part two.
1:19:28Okay? You will have a part two. Yes?
1:19:29Yeah. Okay. Cool.
1:19:31Based on the success of this podcast. Okay? So make sure y'all share this with people.
1:19:34So it's really successful and he says, hey, I gotta come back on that show. So Jason, let everybody know how they can connect with you, man. And yeah.
1:19:42Oh, last thing. Where do you see yourself in the next five years? Only reason I'm asking that is because I want to be able to watch this five years from today and turn it on and say, listen, Jason said he was gonna do that five years ago.
1:19:53Uh, you know, I'm just trying to to be as strategic as possible these days. So my goal is to help the next group of people come through, Be a mentor for the next market leaders that exist because I don't wanna work as hard as I did the last twenty years to get where I'm going.
1:20:07Right? I just don't have the energy anymore. So I wanna find ways where I can get 10 times the result with one tenth of the effort.
1:20:13So I see that by helping people like yourself and your audience, and then that creates the deal flow for me. If I can make you successful, you open up a door I couldn't open up, and then together we can walk through that door.
1:20:25That's what I'm all about. I love it. Jason, let everybody know how to find you and close out with a word of wisdom.
1:20:30Yeah. Find me on YouTube. That's what I'm trying to do right now.
1:20:32You wanna watch somebody starting fresh and I know what they're doing? Watch me there. Go subscribe.
1:20:37There's gems there. There's for sure gems. And and the last piece of wisdom that I'll leave you with is remember this, if somebody's dying and you need to throw them a life raft, don't worry about the logo on it.
1:20:48Don't worry what color it is. Don't worry what you're dressed in and how you come across. Throw them the damn life raft.
1:20:54So if you got a message right now that can help somebody, every minute you delay in putting it in front of them is a minute you allow them to continue suffering. Dang.
1:21:03That's good.
1:21:04Man, that was so good, man. Thank you so much, man. Uh, I appreciate it.
1:21:08I wanna say thank you on behalf of our audience because there's some people that's gonna take information. And I think it was well rounded, not even like webinar stuff, but like understanding people and human psychology. This was amazing.
1:21:19So, man, listen y'all. Make sure y'all go follow Jason Flatland on Instagram, YouTube. Go check out.
1:21:25Send him a DM. Let him know he y'all like this episode. DM him the takeaways, all that kind of stuff.
1:21:30But also go get you some social proof, meaning go build something really, really special, but it is your obligation to come back to your community and teach them how you did it. It's the only way our community grows. We are out here.
1:21:41Like, subscribe. Peace. If you like the video that you just watched, click this one.
1:21:47You're gonna like this one, maybe even more. Click it right now.
The Hook

The bait, then the rug-pull.

Jason Fladlien sold a quarter of a billion dollars through webinars before he stopped counting. When Social Proof host David Shands finally got him on the show, Fladlien did not hold back -- he walked through every framework he has ever used, live, applied to David's own podcasting offer.

CTA Breakdown

How they asked for the click.

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1:08:20productClickFunnels ↗
00:00channelSocial Proof Podcast ↗
1:18:40linkpodcastsummit.com ↗
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31:48
Greg Lav · Interview

You're Not Too Late. You're Probably Too Early.

Bloom Nutrition's CEO and president spend thirty minutes on a yacht in Greece arguing that the real risk isn't missing your moment — it's showing up before the market is ready to understand you.

July 4th
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