Adley Kinsman: Why Your Content Isn't Going Viral (And What To Do About It)
A short-form strategist with tens of billions of organic views walks through retention targets, wide-net hooks, pain-led storytelling and the frameworks she uses to turn viewers into buyers.
Posted
yesterday
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Format
Interview
educational
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9.4K
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57 · 43
Big Idea
The argument in one line.
Videos spread when they entertain a broad audience first, hold an unresolved question until the end, and narrow toward the buyer only after attention is earned.
Who This Is For
Read if. Skip if.
READ IF YOU ARE…
An expert, coach or service provider whose short-form videos are accurate and useful but stall at a few thousand views.
A creator who has been told to niche down and now gets a small, flat audience that never grows.
A local business owner who wants social content to fill seats or classes without posting product features.
Someone selling a course or coaching offer who needs a repeatable way to generate conversion-focused video ideas.
A creator stuck on imposter syndrome or unsure what personal story they are allowed to tell.
SKIP IF…
You want platform-specific technical settings, editing tutorials or analytics dashboards; this is strategy and psychology.
You run paid ads only and have no interest in organic content.
TL;DR
The full version, fast.
Short-form growth comes from engineering attention, not hoping for luck. Diagnose weak videos by skip rate and watch time, and judge the hook as a full package of text, delivery and setting. Target 90% retention in the first six seconds and open a question you only answer at the end, because resolved tension ends the watch. Instead of calling out a narrow avatar, entertain broadly and signal your buyer through language and setting, then let the video narrow. Find your distinctive angle in your pain, since struggle is more relatable than success. For sales, use simple structures such as hook, objection, explanation, and generate ideas by mixing lists of struggles, topics and desires. Treat it as service and expect the work to stay hard.
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A rapid-fire teaser of the episode's best lines: the five-day promise, consistency plus experimentation, the 90% rule, and the STD idea math.
01:08 – 03:05
02 · Sponsor and setup
A Riverside read and a subscribe ask, then the host frames the guest as surgical and technical about engineering content success.
03:05 – 04:41
03 · Why one video beats its twin
Two same-topic videos at 10K and 100K views. The checklist starts with watch time, completion and skip rate, then the full packaging: text hook, delivery, energy, scenery.
04:41 – 06:26
04 · Retention targets
The standards her team tests against: hold 50% of viewers through 50% of a 60-second video, and aim for 90% retention in the first six seconds.
06:26 – 08:01
05 · Tension equals retention
The golden rule: open an itch in the first three seconds and do not scratch it until the last three. Resolve the main loop early and the video is over.
08:01 – 13:35
06 · Cast a wider net than your niche
Why calling out a narrow avatar caps growth. Language, wardrobe and setting signal the audience instead. A sinus surgeon who opens surgeries with prayer is the case study.
13:35 – 16:14
07 · People scroll to be distracted
What people say they want to watch and what they actually watch are different. Viewers are in doom-scroll mode, not learning mode.
16:14 – 18:43
08 · Language that matches the buyer
Buyers with money hear time savings and efficiency; low-ticket buyers need to be made problem aware. Confidence comes from competence, which comes from reps against a framework.
18:43 – 23:31
09 · Imposter syndrome never leaves
Imposter syndrome is the cost of growth, not a sign you should stop. Everyone needs outside eyes for blind spots, and flops are the price of experimentation.
23:31 – 27:49
10 · Entertaining means interesting
Entertainment is not silliness. You compete with studio-budget shows for attention, so build a simple, repeatable, scalable format and earn the right to educate.
27:49 – 34:10
11 · Play big: stories, oddities, relevance
Top posts from business creators are usually about relationships and stories. Your oddity becomes your signature, and cultural relevance brings contextual relevance with it.
34:10 – 40:57
12 · Go to where the pain is
The prompt for finding your story is your pain. A glassblowing studio fills a 30-seat class by talking about divorce recovery instead of glass.
40:57 – 43:22
13 · Conversion content frameworks
The HOE method (hook, objection, explanation), the funnel drop that starts wide and narrows, and STD: 10 struggles, 10 topics, 10 desires mixed into bottom-funnel ideas.
43:22 – 50:18
14 · Stories, charged words and text on screen
Instagram stories drive most conversions. A blank-faced single-line ad, a Rolodex of emotionally charged modifiers, ordinary problems made 10x bigger, and text that frames the footage.
50:18 – 54:35
15 · Mindset: service media
Anxiety is usually self-focus. Treat it as service media, accept that passion fades, and decide rather than hope.
54:35 – 1:01:17
16 · Your why will change
The why that drives you shifts as basic needs are met and as titles expire. Problems never shrink; they get bigger and heavier.
Atomic Insights
Lines worth screenshotting.
If two videos on the same topic perform 10x apart, the difference is usually the first few seconds, not the subject.
A strong benchmark is 90% of viewers still watching at six seconds, which puts a video in the top tier the algorithm promotes.
For a 60-second video, keeping half your viewers through the first half is a high but useful standard.
If you resolve your main question halfway through, you have ended the video for the viewer.
Opening with 'if you are a woman over 45 struggling with X' filters out the people the algorithm needs to test you on.
You can attract a specific audience through wardrobe, accent and setting without naming them once.
People on social apps are trying to be distracted, not educated, so education has to be disguised as entertainment.
Entertaining does not mean funny; it means interesting enough to beat the next video in the feed.
Your video competes with brand-funded TV shows and a kid tugging on the viewer's leg, not just other creators.
Imposter syndrome does not go away with success; it shows up every time you do something new.
Consistency without experimentation leads to a plateau.
Ten struggles, ten topics and ten desires combine into a large bank of sales video ideas.
Changing the on-screen text is the fastest way to fix an underperforming video, because it frames everything the viewer sees.
A glassblowing studio filled its classes by talking about divorce recovery, not glass.
Pain is more relatable than success; success only shows what is possible.
Become culturally relevant and you become contextually relevant by default.
Takeaway
Earn attention broadly, then narrow to the buyer.
WHAT TO LEARN
Hold an open question to the final seconds, entertain a wide audience before you teach, and let your pain, not your niche label, decide what makes you worth watching.
03Why one video beats its twin
When two videos on the same topic get wildly different views, check skip rate and watch time before blaming the topic.
The hook is the whole package: the on-screen text, the first spoken line, the energy and the setting all have to agree.
Most communication is nonverbal, so a video should still make sense to someone watching with the sound off.
04Retention targets
A demanding target for a 60-second video is keeping half the viewers through the first half of it.
Aiming for 90% retention in the first six seconds means landing at 82% still counts as a strong result.
Writing toward a specific retention number changes how you structure the script, not just the opening.
05Tension equals retention
Open a question in the first three seconds and hold the answer until the last three; the gap is what keeps people watching.
Delivering the main payoff halfway through ends the video for the viewer even if the runtime continues.
Between the open and the payoff, keep adding context, stakes and emotional reasons the answer matters.
06Cast a wider net than your niche
Opening with a narrow callout like a specific age, gender and problem filters out most of the people the algorithm could test you on.
You can signal your core audience through wardrobe, accent, setting and word choice without ever naming them.
A specialist who shares the broader parts of their life, like faith or family, reaches far more people than one who only discusses their specialty.
07People scroll to be distracted
There is a large gap between what people claim they want to watch and what actually holds their attention.
Viewers on social apps are trying to escape boredom or avoid a task, so educational content has to compete as entertainment first.
08Language that matches the buyer
Buyers with money respond to time saved and efficiency; they do not need to be convinced, only shown the fastest path.
Lower-ticket buyers often need to be made aware of the problem before any pitch lands.
Confidence on camera follows competence, and competence comes from repetitions guided by a framework or coach.
09Imposter syndrome never leaves
Imposter syndrome does not disappear with success; it shows up every time you step into something new.
Feeling overwhelmed is a sign of growth, so treat it as information rather than a reason to quit.
You cannot see your own blind spots, which is why even top performers use coaches and honest outside feedback.
Consistency alone leads to a plateau; consistency paired with deliberate experiments is what keeps growth going, and experiments mean flops.
10Entertaining means interesting
Entertaining does not mean funny; it means interesting enough that the scroller decides your video is worth their time.
Your video competes with brand-funded shows, inboxes and kids asking for attention, not only other creators.
A simple, repeatable, scalable format lets the product or lesson ride inside the show the way a hot-sauce brand rides inside an interview series.
The order is entertain the many, educate the interested, and sell to the committed.
11Play big: stories, oddities, relevance
Business creators' top-performing posts are often about relationships or personal stories rather than business.
The trait you are most insecure about can become the visual signature people recognize you by.
Aim for cultural relevance by talking about the bigger human problem behind your field; local or category relevance follows.
12Go to where the pain is
To find what makes your story distinctive, look at what was painful enough that you avoid talking about it.
People relate to struggle far more than success; success just shows what is possible.
A niche business can grow by marketing the life problem it solves rather than the craft itself, selling the destination instead of the plane.
If you cannot see your own story, describe your recent customers and pick the one you most identify with.
13Conversion content frameworks
Even sales content should open with a hook nine out of ten people would stop for, then narrow toward the buyer as the video continues.
A hook, then the main objection, then an explanation or example is a simple structure for conversion videos.
Listing 10 struggles, 10 topics and 10 desires and combining them generates a large bank of bottom-of-funnel video ideas.
14Stories, charged words and text on screen
Instagram stories reach your warmest followers and are often where most sales happen.
A single direct-to-camera line with one strong, unexpected modifier can outperform elaborate creative.
Take an ordinary, relatable problem and exaggerate it tenfold to make it worth watching.
On-screen text frames how viewers interpret the footage, so changing the text is the fastest fix for an underperforming video.
15Mindset: service media
Most creator anxiety comes from focusing on yourself; shifting focus to the people you serve makes setbacks easier to absorb.
Passion fades once the early momentum is gone, so treat content as a business you choose to keep running.
Only take advice from people whose position you would actually trade for.
16Your why will change
Your reason for doing the work will shift as basic needs are covered; expect it rather than fight it.
Holding onto an identity you announced years ago can keep you from a smarter pivot.
Problems do not shrink as you succeed; they get larger, so plan for difficulty rather than an easy plateau.
Glossary
Terms worth knowing.
Skip rate
The share of viewers who swipe away from a short video within its first moments. A high skip rate usually means the opening failed to stop the scroll.
Trial reels
An Instagram feature that shows a reel to non-followers first, letting a creator test how a video performs before it reaches their own audience.
ICP
Ideal customer profile. A description of the specific buyer a business most wants to reach and sell to.
TAM
Total addressable market. The full number of people who could plausibly be interested in a topic or product, used here to describe how broad a video's appeal is.
Top of funnel
Content aimed at people who do not know you yet. Middle and bottom of funnel content targets people who are warmer and closer to buying.
VSL
Video sales letter. A video, usually on a sales page, that walks a viewer through a pitch for a product or offer.
Contextual vs cultural relevance
Contextual relevance means being the name people think of in a specific situation, like a local shop. Cultural relevance means being part of broader conversations people have regardless of need.
Pattern interrupt
Something unexpected, like an unusual word or image, that breaks a viewer's autopilot scrolling long enough to get their attention.
43:22 – 50:18denseStories, charged words and text on screen
50:18 – 54:35steadyMindset: service media
54:35 – 1:01:17sparseYour why will change
The Script
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metaphoranalogystory
I will make you disgustingly good at social media in five days or less. Consistency is not enough. It is consistency plus experimentation or you will plateau.
We're on the apps to be distracted. We're in doom scrolling mode. This is where the real show is.
Adley Kinsman went from competing on The Voice to becoming Meta's most viewed female creator. Now with over 80 billion organic views online, she's turned capturing attention into a science. Today, we're unpacking her approach to hooks, storytelling, turning viewers into customers, and the mindset.
takes to build a lasting career as a creator. Clients who have money versus clients who don't have money. If you're trying to sell to people who have money, you're going to talk about saving them time.
You're going to talk about efficiency. We'll use a framework called STD, struggle, topic, desire. And if you take 10 struggles, 10 topics, and then 10 desires, that's 90 ideas when you mix and match them all up together.
We want nine out of 10 people who come across our video to stop and watch it. That is our 90 % rule. If you get 90 % retention on your first six seconds, you are in the top 1 % of content being served up to the algorithm for sure.
For you, as you push for the next five years, what do you think is going to be driving you? I've said that answer for so long, but I felt... Every week I get a DM that some version of June, I want to start a podcast too, but I don't have the gear.
I don't have the studio. My guests are in a different city. And at a certain point you recognize the list will never become shorter.
It is more of you just starting in the first place. This is where Riverside comes in. It's actually how this episode you're watching right now was produced.
I'm in Miami, at least not. And all my podcast producer had to do was send her a recording link. She comes in, she joins the room and everything else is handled.
It feels like we're in. the exact same room. We can see and hear each other clearly.
And if our wifi was to drop on any one of our sides, it's okay because they're being recorded locally too. And one of the best parts is that you can edit the video based on the transcript it provides. Magic Clips will actually go ahead and figure out the best parts so that you always have short form content to post.
If it wasn't for Riverside, this conversation and the many that we have had on this podcast would not have happened. So stop delaying and start creating. Go to creators .riverside .com forward slash creator.
I really don't want you to miss any of our future episodes. I'm going to ask of you to subscribe and make sure you turn the notification bell on. This will only help us do more podcasts like this, bring on even better guests so that you can learn more from it.
I love all of you guys and let's get back into it.
Adley, I think what makes your approach so different, and I think why my audience is going to love you, is you are very surgical. You are very technical. And the way that you think about content is engineering its success.
So it's not about luck. It's not really about just hoping and praying that it's going to work. You have these direct tactics.
And I just want to run a quick little simulation to understand what Adley prioritizes. So the first one being, let's say that a creator who is doing a talking video has two videos. And they're the same topic, but one video has, 10 ,000 views, another one has 100 ,000 views.
What are you checking to see? All right, what made that 100 ,000 view work? And what made that 10 ,000 view not work?
What are you thinking about? What is the checklist in your brain to go through? Assuming they're not just vanity views and that they're both trying to get to the right audience.
Sure, yes, let's do it, yep. The first thing, I always look at watch time. That was drilled into me.
during our big Facebook, YouTube days, it was watch time is king overall and completion rates. And assuming they're the same length and all things are considered equal, the first thing, it sounds so cliche, guys, but it is because it matters, is the skip rate, is that hook. It's the packaging.
It's the marriage of your text hook and how it anchors to help with your watch time, what comes out of your mouth, the energy in which you're delivering it. 90 % of our communication is nonverbal. And so we...
They have to remember that performance matters just as much as the script or the idea is how you're communicating the idea to where people can understand it without sound. And that comes into your scenery, all things considered. But we just look at the overall packaging.
down to a certain degree to figure out what these differences are. I love it. And I want to talk about that retention time because again, I love the way that you talk about this.
It's so nuanced. And I think a lot of people really need to look at the layers beneath it. Because one thing is that retention time is obviously going to differ if you have a 10 second video versus something that's like two and a half minutes long.
I don't think that necessarily there's one retention percentage or time that people should be looking for, but it's based between those differences. Can you talk to me about that? So let's say that someone has a video.
that is 10 seconds long versus a video that is a minute long. Generally, what are you looking for in terms of retention percentages and how does that differ? So when we test our videos, whether that's trial reels or anything else, for the bulk of that video, say it's a 60 second video, we aim to hold at least 50 % watch time for 50 % of the video.
Now that's a, it's a pretty high standard. But it's like my mom taught me in high school. She goes, I'm going to set the bar here.
So when you fall and when you mess up, you're only falling here. If we are aiming for that, if we are aiming for 90 % retention in the first six seconds, which is our metric, that's the standard that we try to hold ourselves to, is, okay, if I get 82%, that's still pretty good. And so when you have those goals in mind, the way that you orchestrate your content becomes completely different.
When you have those goals of getting that high watch time, how are you communicating it, keeping the stakes high in your video, keeping the tension present and continuing to add value and raise the stakes. So when you land, whether it's a call to action or whatever the payoff of your video is, you can leave the audience feeling like, wow, they just added so much to my life.
I had enough time with them to really connect with them. And it leaves a positive affinity for you and your reputation in their minds and in their mouths by the end of it. I love it.
And you talk a lot about tension, which I think is so misunderstood because a lot of people, which we'll talk about hooks, I'm sure we will. But the idea that it's not just about those first few seconds, it's about how do you keep them through the entirety of the video? What are you then putting in as tension so that people can go ahead and watch the entirety of it?
And I just love the way that you break this down. I think my audience is going to really appreciate it. So how are you thinking about tension and what can somebody do throughout a video to ensure that that tension, those stakes are being risen?
Such good questions. Okay, so our golden rule is that the first three seconds, roughly, must create an itch that you do not scratch until the last three seconds. You guys, that tension is what's going to equal the retention.
Think about this. This is not something I'm making up. This is like age -old storytelling.
Yeah. A master of, you guys. But this is, look at your favorite sitcoms.
Look at the Avengers movies. Look at any movie. If the Avengers saved the world.
halfway through the movie, the movie's over. It's over. There's no reason for anybody to keep watching because the tension was broken.
So you can have one master loop, one main point that you're continuing to raise the stakes on during that suspense and add facts and let them know why this matters so much. Give them the context, the explanation, the emotional attachments, and then land at the point. But if you land the point up here in its entirety, you broke the tension.
So there's no reason for them. to keep spending that time with you. So it doesn't matter if it's a six -second video, congratulations on 100 % retention, if you're creating that itch and not paying it off to the end.
But for most of the videos, I assume that most of this audience is making, is trying to communicate value, connect with your audience on an emotional level, tell your story. And so you don't want to give the opening and the resolve right away. I think what you're the queen at is that retention using specifically visual demonstrations.
And I think my audience is going to love you for this stuff because a lot of my audience tend to be experts or people that really want to share knowledge and value in that way. The problem with that is sometimes it could be quite. boring and they tend to have a smaller audience at times, but you do such a good job of explaining how to reach wider people, how to ensure that you're utilizing things where you're not just specifically niching down your contents, but you're actually giving it a chance for it to be seen.
I think you're so brilliant about this and I think the way you talk about it is awesome. I'll give you a quick example where I had found this work for me. When we had launched our business called Creative College, I actually made a mistake.
I would constantly call it, if you're a creator struggling with X, I remember I heard you say this. the right way to do it but i had gone ahead and i started marketing in that way and it didn't work because what i didn't realize is that People do not wake up and think that they want to become creators, right?
They're afraid of being seen. And so for me saying, hey, become a creator today was not necessarily at the forefront of their mind. And so what I had to do was really try to engineer wider nets.
So I would think about psychology, communication, confidence, presence, how to be able to deliver. And I would use those angles to bring people in to my world. And I would say that content is the solution to that.
I was even making statements like personal branding is the greatest personal development journey that I've ever been a part of. And naturally, that whole idea of a wider angle and more people start to see and they're like, oh, wait, content actually might be for me. So talk to me about that.
I think it's intelligent, really, this idea about how you shouldn't just think about a content specifically only to your target avatar every single time, but this idea that you can cast wider nets. You said it so brilliantly. We share this so much of content.
When that narrative started going around of you should niche down, I... Oh, I wish we would have been friends then. Yes, I really wish that we were.
Only because it was the greatest piece. Now you say it better, arguably, probably than anybody, that you are the niche. And you really coined that and made it, I believe, the viral phrase that it is.
And then you do such a good job helping people understand what that means. That all of us are multi -hyphenates, right? We're people of...
or we love dogs, or we are a lawyer, but also an accountant and into fitness, you know, and to have you story tell all of these different things. And you can, but there's also branding that matters very much. Of when we describe June, how are we going to say?
How are we going to say it? When you describe Adlai, how are you going to say it to where people can just know who you're talking about? And that comes down to repetition of saying the same thing.
But where people got that wrong, I think for a long time, and now people are kind of coming out of it. is not starting your video saying, if you're a perimenopausal woman over the age of 45 struggling to fit into your jeans, this video's for you. Can you speak to your core avatar?
Of course. It would be silly for us to say not to. But if you are in growth mode, which I think every single one of us should be in growth mode right now and getting that digital real estate in the distribution, then you don't want to do it all of the time.
Like June just said, you want to cast a wider net. But using specific language and psychology that, like if you're fishing for catfish or bass, you're going to fish with a net that can get a lot of different fish that have tangential viewpoints to what the bass might be interested in too. This is such a weird example.
But then that hole is uniquely primed to catch your core ICP, the bass. So you're going to do that with language. When we used to want to angle our videos specifically for moms in the Midwest, we wouldn't call them out.
We would dress a certain way, maybe use a certain accent, drive a truck. And the algorithm like knows like, so it will find more lookalike audiences and people that feel that way will resonate with that. But there's people I'm sure that we both follow.
You know who's a great example is actually SnotDocNC. And he's one of my favorites. This guy has over a quarter million followers as a sinus surgeon.
Do you think he has over a quarter of a million followers talking about knot or deviated septums and how to prevent them or fix them? No. He's a multi -hyphenate like all of us.
And his faith is very important to him, for example. So his videos start with him. scrubbed up in the OR, light on his head, people walking in the background.
He says, good morning, let's pray. Oh, I love that. And he just starts praying for his hands, praying for the people that are gonna be on his table, reminding everybody how brave they are.
So whether you're a person of faith or not, you're like, this guy is special. Oh, pour into me right now. And so now he has a quarter million followers talking about the more widely relatable TAM, a bigger total addressable market, filling his top of funnel for free with all of these people.
Now I'm sitting. The ripple effect of that is we're sitting here having a conversation with him that several thousand people are going to see. And I don't have a deviated symptom issue, you guys.
But I have sent it to three people who do because he is the most visible person, not talking about his niche, his industry, talking about something else that was important to him. And that's why I think what you're teaching people to do and using their story and their unique superpowers. is truly the competitive moat that everyone is looking for.
It's so good. And you described this so well. I've been looking forward to this conversation for so long and it's gone exactly the way that I thought it was going to go.
So what I really love about what you had just said is this idea that... Well, one with stores, it is just what makes us human, right? This multi -hyphenated version of us is who we are.
And rarely do we have a best friend in life that only talks about one thing. We love them because of their approach, their opinions and their beliefs. Not that we agree with every single thing that they say, but ultimately because they feel like one of us.
And I have my moments too, where I'm watching content and I look at somebody and I'm like, I have no business watching a video about this type of construction or this type of knitting or this type of singing. And I'm like, I'm in, like, tell me more. I watched a whole video about a hamstring surgery and hamstring repair the other day.
Oh my gosh. But this is the whole thing, you guys. There's a whole bit is how to create content that is so compelling.
You suck people into watching something they wouldn't normally watch. Because if there's one thing over 80 billion views and strictly organic has taught me now, it is that there is a giant difference between what people say they want to watch and what they actually pay attention to. So we can all pretend to be intellectuals and say we have highly curated feeds.
When that cat video comes across your feed, you're going to watch it and you're going to share that baby cow. And I know that because so am I. We're on the apps not to learn about your coaching program or your real estate deal or about hamstring repair.
We're on the apps. to be distracted. We're in doom scrolling mode.
That's where they're trying to stand in line at the bank, avoid doing the thing that they want to do. And it's so habitual. This is where the real show is.
So if you understand the intent that people have and the mindset that they're in, it's not that people are dumb, but we're not using our best and brightest trying to learn right now brains when you're scrolling social media. Okay, so it's not the human behavior. So good.
It's so good. So we had, it was hilarious. We did a storytelling content challenge.
And at the end of it, we did a quick little survey. And that was just because I was curious. And I said, 60 days ago, would you have ever called yourself a storyteller?
Has that even been at the forefront of your mind? And it was like 88 % people had no idea if they wanted to even create content before that. But it's this idea, exactly what you're talking about.
People don't even know the solution to things. And you're convicted in your own resolution that you should say, yes, actually, if you want this, if you want this, if you want this, this thing that you're selling or the thing that you really believe in that has immense value is the solution to that, right?
And you do this so well because I've heard you talk about this a lot of the times where a lot of educators will start with the payoff first, like the end. But you go back and you think about like every drop, every beat, like what is going on within the video. I know that we said that we would bring up hooks, but something that I think you're very good at and you already described it, which is understanding language.
Like if you know your target avatar, sometimes it doesn't require us to direct. call them out. But the language that we utilize, even specific terms and making choices behind them is actually how that content gets them.
And that's like the 10 layers underneath strategy, which is so good. So talk to me about how people, let's say that they're trying to sell something, an example that you can go ahead and use whichever you want, but the idea that maybe they're looking for the language to utilize, right? So maybe they're selling something, they know that they want to talk about this particular topic, but how are you reverse engineering that angle or that language that they can utilize in their contents?
Let me see. If you're trying to sell clients who have money versus clients who don't have money, the way in which you're going to do your VSLs, do your content, everything is completely different. If you're trying to sell to people who have money, you're going to talk about saving them time.
You're going to talk about efficiency. You're not going to try to convince them of anything because they're just ready to buy to solve a problem very quickly. So you're going to sell.
via the language that you're using in your content in a very different way than trying to sell people on, say, a low ticket, where you're trying to take them through the steps of a sales cycle. Maybe you need to make them problem aware. Like you said, you can't just call out content creators because most people are like, I don't identify as that.
Not one of my pronouns. I don't identify as a content creator. But you guys, if you're in the business of connecting with other humans, building a business on social media, getting clients, you are a content creator.
You are. It's just a different medium, whether it's a billboard or a paid ad or paid social or organic social. You guys, you are a content creator.
The media is still getting out there. So the quicker that you can become confident in that by becoming competent, by going through June's challenges, by becoming in Viralish, whoever and whatever you're consuming to control those inputs. But acknowledge that your confidence in getting there is two parts.
One, it is getting your reps in, without a doubt. But getting those reps in in a way where you have a leader, like you're looking to June to say, can I have a framework, please? Can I have a team, please?
And then get those reps in against that. But you do become confident by increasing your competence. And that is where we, as coaches, try to help people get little unlocks, give them a little tips and tricks to make the road easier so you don't take...
six years doing it like i did like we did we're actually like a very similar story by the way and i love it i feel like i learned a lot from you um likewise i want to talk about this idea where A lot of creators struggle with what you just said, which is the confidence aspect to it. And I love the way that you're breaking this down.
So I'll break down first competency because I think that's a really good place to start. I think that's in their control. So let's say with all of your experience, what has been a really good unlock for somebody where they're really struggling?
Maybe it's a fear of being seen, but also maybe it's this fear of imposter syndrome, like they have nothing to offer. How do you then get them to become confident? What has been a big unlock for your students?
You guys, realizing... that if you are consistently pushing yourself, imposter syndrome, for me, my belief, based on my lived experiences, it doesn't go away. I am still feeling that most days.
Sometimes I'm very confident in rooms I'm stepping into or what I'm doing because I'm like, okay, I know exactly what to do here. But if I'm growing, I'm kind of stepping into new situations, new rooms, new stages all the time to where I'm like, whew, can I do this? Because I haven't done it before.
And that amount and volume of newness. is stretching you. It's expanding you.
But that overwhelm is really the gateway to expansion. You can't have one without the other. Do you remember the first time you worked out?
I'll remind you, you were bad at it. The reps in this, in content creation is just like that, you guys. It is just getting the reps and getting the competence in to know how to do the form correctly and the movements in your muscles, getting used to doing it so that you become confident.
Even just the knowledge, June. You asked what my unlock was. The knowledge that it doesn't ever really go away at any stage because every top of the mountain is just the bottom of another.
And so you're continuing to grow. You're going to feel new and you're going to feel stressed all the time. So if you feel that way right now and you're counting yourself out and disqualifying yourself for the limitations that your mind is making up, you got to let that go.
You got to recognize that's a lie and something your brain is telling you to keep you safe. But June and I and... any good coach who genuinely cares about you is not here to help you stay in a life of mediocrity and make you stay in a sea of sameness like everybody else.
We're gonna, as coaches, push you to help you tell your story in a much better way because we all have blind spots. I'm sure June could look at my content right now, easily, and be like, missing this mark, this mark, this mark, and what if she did this? What if she did this?
Things that I can't see because it is impossible for all of us. to see something we're standing inside of. You can't read the label from inside the bottle, you know?
So we, LeBron James has a coach. Tony Robbins has a therapist. We all have to have somebody in our lives that can see our blind spots and call us out for the things that we can't see.
You know what's hilarious? When I think about coach, I think the best coach for me has been my girlfriend. She is so brutally honest.
Anytime that I make a piece of content that I work really hard on, and I'm like, hey, bubs, what do you think about this? And she's like, don't post it. She's like, I know you can do better.
I'm like, oh, man. I thought I really figured it out. But I think the idea that we are always growing as creatives, and I love the humility.
I always say too, like I flop all the time. Like I always try to put boundaries, right? Like you have to though, because I think that makes you even more credible.
How the heck are you going to share the most relevant tips to people if you're only doing what everyone else is doing? Like you have to try and push the boundaries. And I love that you do.
And I love that you're so humble about it. I'm the exact same way. Like we flopped like two days ago and I'm like, good, like we got to figure this out.
Like let's go figure out what this new angle for us. I love that you share that so openly. I also feel, Because it is part of our brand, our entire company is called Viralish.
We have a good batting average, you guys. But because consistency is not enough, it is consistency plus experimentation or you will plateau. So in experimenting, you're going to flop a lot.
But that, again, means that you're stretching, means that you're trying new things and trying to create something that hasn't necessarily been done before, at least by you. And so I just think that it's so beautiful that you openly share that as a leader for your community. Be like, we don't get it right all the time.
Because I put, I know, a lot of pressure on myself to flop. It's like against our core. I'm an extra hard on myself.
But that does sometimes keep us trapped to where like my only aiming to go viral. You don't want to only aim to go viral every time. Like I'm a high percentage of top of funnel content and awareness because I'm an entertainer.
You know, not necessarily a coach and a marketer. Those are secondary to me. But I think it's very normal and something that's an active practice to work through getting through the vanity metrics and when they flop and just becoming a student of them and not letting them define our capacity.
You know, you just took the words right out of my mouth. But the idea of entertaining, I think you described that word. probably the best because i never really thought about content most of the time when we think about educators you don't really think about entertaining as their inherent quality but the way that you break down entertainment i think could be attainable by all of us like even if you don't have the charisma or the personality or the excitement the way that you do right like you come off on camera you're like you got the energy for and all those things and people look at us or maybe look at you specifically like oh she's got it of course she has the charisma for it but the way that you talk about entertainment it's like something that can be learned and trained upon and i think my in my audience really need what you're about to share with them now.
So can you help define how you think about entertainment and why even experts, although they don't inherently think of themselves as entertainers, still need to adopt that mindset? Yes. Thank you for asking.
This is my favorite subject in the entire world. And it is also the biggest objection that I have to overcome because people look at me and they're like, you're silly. So when you're talking about entertainment, that's what it looks like.
I'm like, no, no, no, no. That is authentic to me. you guys, 99 % of the people like in viral -ish, they're not funny.
You know, like entertaining doesn't mean ha ha silly. Entertaining means you don't have to be silly, but you do have to be interesting. You do subconsciously when people are scrolling through the feed, you guys, they're subconsciously thinking, is this the best use of my time possible?
And all we are trying to prevent is that, that. And we are competing, you guys, against billions and billions and billions of dollars from giant corporations coming into the feeds, producing shows like Barbie, House of Guinness. You're watching a giant advertisement for beer when you're watching that Netflix show subliminally.
You have the Chicago Cubs producing micro dramas. You have Chick -fil -A doing it. You have all of them understanding this is where the real show is.
You're not just competing. When I say competing, there is... And always will be room for everybody to win.
But we are competing for attention. And it would be crazy to pretend that we're not because they just watched a cat video. And now they're coming across your video.
And you're not just competing against the other videos on the app. You're competing against their email inbox, the kid tugging at their leg asking for their attention. It is the most valuable commodity in the world.
And you want them to watch your 60 to 90 seconds? It better be good. And you have to remember that they're in the mindset of doom scrolling.
So if you want to talk about hamstring surgery. We have to disguise it in a way that sucks you in and compels you to watch something you wouldn't normally be interested in watching. So Hot Ones, this might be an overused example by me, but it is still one of my favorites.
The show Hot Ones, you guys, was created to sell buffalo sauce. Buffalo sauce. It's a guy interviewing celebrities, and the questions get harder as the sauces get hotter.
And so you learn the buffalo sauce just by nature of watching the show, of watching Sandra Bullock break down and see a side of herself that she doesn't feel catching. Her mouth is on fire. And there's no pitch fatigue when you bake in a world around the product itself where you can seamlessly get the benefits and the messaging in there.
And so that is what we talk about when we talk about creating what we call a SRS. You may have a different name for it, but for us, it's simple, repeatable, scalable. And then I'll go further.
Bingeable, batchable. So look at Hot Ones or look at Jefferson Fisher even. Sits in a car.
It is simple, repeatable, highly scalable in two books, in two shows, in two podcasts. Scalable, bingeable, and it is batchable. So it doesn't have to be as complicated as Hot Ones.
June does it with his series. But if you can package yourself in a way that you are at least entertaining to watch, then you can earn the right to educate. whoever you want.
So our thesis is, I'll just say this in case it's helpful for anybody. Go for it. Our thesis is entertain the masses, educate the interested and sell to the committed.
And if you can do that appropriately, you will never have to worry about sales another day in your life. It is the mechanics of figuring out how to storytell yourself appropriately to fish with a big enough net to get your core ICP. It's so good.
And it is the ethos that I think you and I both share, which you shouldn't think small. You shouldn't think that you should only have an audience for your ICP.
And I think that people even forget that reputation is everything. So people, I've heard so many people, especially when they come from an ad background, where they're more accustomed to being able to have those filters and saying, I want this specific avatar in my audience. I only want to be tagged towards them.
When it comes to organic content, you have free and unlimited distribution and you're choosing to play small by only talking to specific people every time. The amount of data that you're losing out on completely for free is ridiculous. Jefferson Fisher is a great example of this where he's doing everything that we're talking about to this point, right?
He has a wide angle and he comes from a law background. A lot of creators do this where you think they're talking about certain ones. It's really funny.
We just went on and did, have you ever used sort feed by any chance? Like have you used that extension? Yeah.
So we were using that and we did on. Alex Ramosi's content. And we went to go and see what was his top performing post.
And you would think it's about business, right? But you are actually looking at a short form. It's about dating, right?
Like his first four, even Cody Sanchez, same idea. And it's because they feel human, right? Like they're not afraid of showing different parts about themselves.
And so I wanted to get you to talk about this even more so, right? Everything that we're speaking to where people are starting so small and they're like, I got a niche down, but. Further emphasize that for the people, Adley.
Talk about why it's so important that you play big. If you guys, I bet you sort feed yourself and see your relationship, immigrant stories, your stories, to his entire thesis, you guys, it is stories that people connect with. Relationship is one of the biggest TAMs that you can talk about in your unique story in relationships because one, it is a competitive moat.
Nobody has your God -given gifts and your unique story that was given to you, especially. If there's pain involved, your pain either becomes your fortress and all the reasons why you can't do something, or as Lisa Nichols says, it becomes your fuel. It becomes the reason why you have to.
And that is why entrepreneurs and coaches will preach mindset at you. It's like such a cliche, but it is because it is so necessary. It's so necessary.
I just believe so deeply that if you want unlimited distribution, unlimited distribution, you have to make what people want to watch. not necessarily what you want to make. You guys, if I was just out here giving content tips and tricks all of the time, that there's a small subset of people that are interested in that.
There is a bigger subset of people that are interested in motivation or aspiration or my overcoming story of. I was bankrupt. I signed away rights to my name for life after thinking I had a God -given opportunity.
I made a huge mistake and it cost me a lot. But people are going to learn more from that story of resilience and that connection point. It's going to go deeper and build trust with me than those who are worried about the next post they make on Instagram.
It's bigger touch points, more relatable touch points. Then the bigger one for me is relationships. is my top of how we started building our business was me and my husband pranking each other.
Pranking and humor is a love language for us. It is a core value of our household. And so sharing that, especially in the education world, you don't have a lot of educators or marketers that are really funny and showing that unserious side of themselves.
But that is so natural and authentic to me that that oddity about me becomes my uniqueness, it becomes a draw in for people. So whatever your oddity is, whatever your unique selling point is that maybe you were scared to show is actually going to be your superpower.
You guys, today is a unique day. I typically wear a hat, not because I think they're awesome, but it's because I have an insecurity about my forehead and about how to style my hair. I had my hair done this morning because I have a whole day of filming, but that's why I wear hats.
born out of insecurity. But what we are most insecure about can also be our superpower. Now, if I step out of the house and I don't have a hat on, nobody really recognizes me.
I swear if I am wearing, especially a wide brim, I will get recognized every time I go to the grocery store or anywhere else. They're like, Adley, whether it was from our old school stuff or the stuff that we're doing now. And it is so funny how the greatest, what you would consider weakness, God can turn into the biggest strength.
And now it is. my little moniker that people are like, oh, the girl with the hats that does the funny stuff and teaches about viral videos, you know, but it's the hats have somehow become a big part of that. And it's something that I was only doing because I was insecure about.
So let that freak flag fly. Find the most relatable touch point, whatever that is for you. Jefferson's a great example.
He didn't get 6 million followers on Instagram talking about law. He's talking about the greater thing. He macroed out and is talking about our next conversation.
Why are people in the courtroom with him? Because they can't communicate. So he teaches people how to communicate better because that reaches a much wider audience.
And guess what? His business is doing just fine. He dreamed bigger.
There is a difference between cultural relevance and contextual relevance. And what I mean is most... of you watching this are probably aiming for contextual relevance, right?
You want to be the real estate agent people think of when they're in SoCal or the pizza shop people remember when they're in Nashville or what they think of when they should go get dinner tonight. That's contextual relevance. But if you look at what June and I are talking about, about macroing out and thinking bigger, that's where you're at Jefferson level or Hot Ones level, where you become more culturally relevant or snot doc, where he's just praying for people.
And then if you become culturally relevant, you become contextually relevant by default. So why not dream bigger?
Why not swing for bigger and have the bigger conversation that is more relatable to people? But that requires your humanity. That requires your bravery.
And that is why most people are unwilling to do it. And that's why if you do it, you'd win because there's so many less people doing it. I have gone through this cycle where I will then help somebody and say the exact same thing that you're talking about.
And it is very true where you're going to have content that is very specific to your target avatar, but you need to complement it with wider reach. You need to be human and be courageous enough to do so. Then actually a lot of those conversations get to this point where they'll say something like.
But I don't know what's my unique unfair advantage. I don't know what's my oddity. I don't know what makes me different from everyone else.
Because the honest truth is that for so long, you've been told to be the same, right? Whether it's through middle school and you have these cliques or whether it's college and it's clubs, it's like your entire life you've been told to be small. And so, of course, when you're asked to be big and you're thinking about it, you have no idea where to head towards.
Is there anything, a prompt or something that you give to somebody or a question that you give where it's like, this is how you can start to discover what is that oddity of yours? Go to where the pain is. Go to where the pain is.
What is something that you wouldn't normally talk about because it was painful? That's where I go. That's where you go.
And if you look at the common denominators of most people's story, their most relatable touchpoint, what draws people to them, it was their pain. That's way more relatable than their success. Good for me to have figured something out.
Good for you to have figured something out and being willing to help the people who are a couple years behind. But you're going to relate way more to our struggles and what it's taken to get there and the hard parts than you are from the successes. The successes are just here to show you what is possible for yourself.
It's just here to say, okay, I made videos that got less than 5 ,000 views for four years before the unlock happened for me. So can I help you not take four years of your life juggling? Because that's a long time.
But now through mentorship and people like June that are pouring into you, you can compress years into months and even weeks. When June is trying to extract her story out of you, listen to him. Lean into the painful parts because that is going to be your unique separator.
That testimony is your fuel. It is everything that is going to make your story unique and memorable, especially in the age of AI. It's unbelievably well said, Adlai.
I hope that everyone repeats that a hundred times over. We got the sign off from you, which is this idea that the thing that most people connect to is struggle, as you've called it, but it's our universal commonality. It isn't that we have all had the same careers.
It's not that we've all achieved the same things. It's not that we love the same lifestyles, but it's that we've all dealt with imposter syndrome. We've all dealt with fear of being seen.
We've all been insecure. We've all had a struggling relationship. We've all had these moments where we...
didn't think that we were good enough, whether it was in career or in our lives. And it's like this idea that if you can start to displace that, not just a ton of vulnerability, you don't need to go that far, but it's just any bit of it, even a touch point of you saying, I actually don't know what I'm doing. Maybe I tried something new and it didn't work out.
Or maybe I learned something new that I didn't necessarily agree with five years ago, but all of a sudden you feel so human. And I love, and I love the idea of talking with paints. I appreciate you talking about that.
Yeah. Can I give an illustration that may be helpful along those lines? So There's a woman in Viralish and she has a glass blowing studio, a local glass blowing studio.
Going viral isn't gonna like blow up her little glass blowing business, right? She can have like 30 people in a class at a time, okay? So what is she supposed to do in this context of become culturally relevant, not contextually relevant, okay?
This is all relative. But as a local business, brick and mortar, how does she lean into the pain, go bigger to get people to come into her glass blowing studio? I don't.
honestly know what glassblowing is, but here's how we chose to market it. There's also cross -stitchers and viralists that it is just this fun puzzle and to help them get millions of views on something that most people wouldn't normally log onto Instagram to learn about glassblowing or cross -stitching. But here's our formula and how we do it.
So we went into her, she was in her one -on -one with glassblowing and we said, okay, Michelle, why did you get into glassblowing? Like, why is this important to you? Why do people come to these classes?
It's not just to play with fire, probably, you know? And I said, was there a divorce? Was there pain?
Like, I'm trying to find the pain. And she said there actually was a divorce. And I wanted a healthy habit to lean into.
Not drinking or something, but something like CrossFit that requires your entire brain and focus to be involved with because you are playing with fire. forging something out of pain that is requiring all of your focus. You can't think about anything else that you're going through.
And then you transform that into something beautiful that can be a gift for somebody or can live on your mantle. And so that's how I got into glassblowing. It has been really beautiful for me and everybody to come learn this new skill that's a healthy habit.
I was like, that's it, Michelle. Okay, we're going to start a little challenge to where if you're open to it, to talking about how you got into glassblowing, start making content about. your divorce or this pain you're going into and how you were trying to better yourself, get into the personal development space.
We're widening her TAM a little bit to say how she got into this through storytelling, through kind of vlogging is kind of the angle she took with it. And then she put out a challenge to help monetize that for, I'm looking for 30 women who are going through a divorce in the Cincinnati area who want to do this together. Now we're filling your glass blowing studio.
Now you're. teaching people who would not normally be interested in glassblowing, they're interested in solving their pain. And they didn't know glassblowing was going to be a solution for that, but it's been introduced to them now by talking to them with what is more relatable to them, rather than selling glassblowing, talking about how your glass is more sustainably sourced than other glass, you know, or that your instructors are better.
We want to sell the destination, not the plane. And so a lot of business owners and experts start talking about the facts and the features of why their thing is better rather than looking at the outcome and the more widely relatable touch points in which you're going to attract people to you. That's so good.
And, you know, I've had many conversations with business owners in the same light. And sometimes those business owners take that and when they receive it, it's like a huge, huge unlock because. It's so powerful.
It's like for all, for their entire lives, they thought, all right, well, the thing that I do is just the thing that I do. And they forget that they had all this history connected back to why they made that decision in the first place. And it's awesome that you're trying to peel back those layers.
I've also found that when someone doesn't receive that so well from me, if I said like, hey, what got you to here? And they're still like, nothing. Like, I actually just love it.
It just came to me and it was just a job that fell on my lap. The thing that I've always reframed them with is. why do your clients come in?
Or why do your customers come in? Because they're business owners first, they're so good at understanding their actual customers and they're actually quite bad at understanding themselves. But if you do it and then mirror that and reflect it back, then you can find commonality.
So it's like I always say, why do your clients come in? Tell me about the last day that you had. Who were the 30 people that came into your workshop?
Can you describe that? And immediately they're like, yeah, so this person was 45 years old. She's a mom.
She's going through X, Y, and Z. There's a 28 -year -old who just came out of college that wants to learn this first. skill because they came through a breakup and they could describe them so well.
I'm like, all right, which one of those can you mirror? Like, which one do you feel like is connected to you? And can we start there?
And that has been also a cool unlock for a lot of these folks too. That's a beautiful, brilliant way to extract it. And this comes back to what we're talking about, where it's hard for all of us, for June, for me, for you to see something that we're inside of, to read the label from inside the bottle.
And that is why being in his world is so important to have somebody. ask you specific questions and extract things about you to help you package your story in a really unique and individualized way. That's the key.
I love it. It's so good. I want to go into now, we were talking about top of funnel, a little bit of mid funnel.
I want to go bottom of funnel. Let's say now creators are trying to monetize and they have their own challenges or their coaching offers, or let's say they're selling consultant or maybe it's a physical product. How are you thinking about conversion content versus let's say top of funnel?
What changes and can you give some good examples of what a good conversion content would look like? Totally. So we have two of my favorite frameworks that come up for this.
Three. One is called the HOE method. H -O -E.
Hook. Objection. And then explanation or experience or example.
And we have prompts that we give for this. That's a nice little template to follow that kind of brings it into more niche. But your hook, we still aim for every single hook to be widely relatable to 90 % of people.
We want nine out of 10 people who come across our video to stop and watch it. That is our 90 % rule. That way, if you get 90 % retention on your first six seconds, you are in the top 1 % of content being served up to the algorithm for sure.
And then you can niche it down as you go. That is what we call our funnel drop framework where it actually starts wide top of funnel. Ving gets more niche as you go, as you're raising the stakes and making your points.
Now we're learning about hamstring surgery because we've been compelled and sucked into this content where now we're super niche. But you're actually able to hit top, middle, and bottom all in one in this funnel drop sense. But for conversion, I think once you get past the hook to hook people in, then it's really in kind of that middle section of the video where the suspense lies.
And so we'll use a framework called struggle. topic, desire, STD. So we got a ho, we got an STD, but they're very benign.
Struggle, topic, desire. And if you take 10 struggles of your core avatar, 10 topics that you can talk about, 10 topics or themes, and then 10 desires, that's 30. That's 90 ideas when you mix and match them all up together, you know?
And so that's 90 bottom of the funnel ideas. If you're a struggle, struggle, struggle who can't fill his calendar. then follow my desire.
And you can mix and match them, but it's really, really beautiful for this framework to look at struggle, topic, desire. even have even AI assist in building out the mix and match of those 90 different ideas. I think the beauty behind that framework is it can be extrapolated across different formats.
So I think about it, that could also be done for a carousel, just like it could be done for a reel. And it could also be done for your Instagram stories. Like the same idea, the principles remain the same.
I'm curious, do you have any go -to Instagram story strategies? I get this question all the time. And I think it's a good one because they tend to be your warmest people.
And for me, my stories tend to make us the most amount of money on a consistent basis. And I'm curious for you, how are you thinking about Instagram stories and how are you doing your conversion -led material there? Sure.
And I'd actually, I want you to speak to this too because you are masterful at it. For us, we're doing both a launch mode right now in our business and we're about to turn back on our evergreen. But you'll watch me go really heavy middle and bottom of the funnel as we gear up to these events.
And so I use that STD method and the whole method mostly in stories because it's not necessarily something that my feed loves because my audience was trained on entertainment. And now I'm in the position of trying to turn the Titanic, slowly but surely, but still use entertainment because that is authentic to us. So stories, to June's point, are where we get the most amount of conversion.
So I'll use some of those strategies. And I'm sure you... I've talked a lot about the single story with the engagement that calls out exactly the benefits of what you have to offer.
We do that a lot. And really, it's in the emotionally charged language that we use. If we have language on the screen that we really want people to pay attention to, I'm not going to have a whole big Adley face story.
or visual because that's going to distract from where I want their eyes to go. Remember, we have milliseconds to really grab their attention. So every word is very important.
So even like our best performing ad right now, I got from my girl, Tori Dunlap, her first 100K. And she goes, Adelaide, do this. This crushes for me, my stories and in my ads.
It is now our number one performing ad. And it is simply. Me with a blank face looking at you straight in the camera saying, I will make you disgustingly good at social media in five days or less.
And then one more little subtext. That's it. That is our top performing ad.
And in my stories and on my feed has driven more conversions than anything. It is simple. And it is a power word like disgustingly.
Because that's a pattern interrupt. And so we just try to use a lot of emotionally charged language, especially in our stories, and then keep it very simple and to the point to where they understand the value that's on the other side of them commenting that word. Emotionally charged language.
Let's say that someone is figuring out, all right, I am trying to sell, maybe they're a therapist, maybe they're selling some sort of coaching offer, some regard, or a consulting. How are they figuring out what are their emotionally charged words? Where's a good place for them to look to so that they can do a story frame like you've just detailed, which is a good idea.
Again, I kind of go back to the pain and I don't speak necessarily. You can speak to the symptom of the pain, but really we try to widen it out as much as possible. Because if you're talking super, super niche, you can kind of use electrically charged language, but really look at your adverbs and your adjectives and how the word that comes right before the noun, the thing that you want to say.
You have a Rolodex of them. Just have a little, like I've just got a Rolodex of emotionally charged language that I can use to make a boring noun, but when I need to use, sound more electric. And that makes it plug and play really for any niche is whatever pain point you're trying to solve or whatever pain point they have specifically.
Make it 10x bigger. That was really the whole key to us blowing up back in COVID is with Blake and I would do relatable couple stuff. We would look at and go on Reddit to see what are couples talking about?
What are relatable couples themes? And you could take, I want a dog. He doesn't want a dog.
So I would just take that very relatable, kind of benign, ordinary feeling. And how do I make it extraordinary? And I would take that relationship issue and I'd 10x it.
by turning the apartment into a barnyard for a day. So then a dog didn't sound so bad. It was COVID, so nobody could go on vacation.
So I put a hot tub in the living room of that same apartment and about flooded everything four stories up. But it was this relatable feelings that everybody feels, but just 10X them. And so you can take the ordinary or what you believe to be the ordinary in your own life and make it extraordinary, whether it's the visuals that you're painting or the feeling that you're giving somebody or the words that you're using to describe it to where it just penetrates deeper.
The idea of, I think Instagram stories. Instagram Reels and carousels, although they have their own respective algorithms and they perform differently in different ways, everything that you're mentioning about the psychology is so true across all of them. And I think it's so important that people understand the why.
Like everything that you're detailing here, it's not just... tactical, it is understanding why something happens that you can repeat it for yourself long term. And so I love this idea of a single frame story.
And I think that there are many great options for I love the idea that you just gave just straight direct to camera talking about things that are more electrical words, something that kind of sparks curiosity. And yeah, do you have any other story sequences that might be multi frame? Or let's say it's like some videos inserted at all?
Like what are some other options that people can look forward to? We're about to post one that's, it's a carousel, so it's a multi -frame and it's creator advice. It's wider than that.
It's like advice I would only give you after three margaritas. Oh, nice. Here's advice that you know is going to be a little different.
You know, it's going to be a little more honest. It might be, it's going to be different than the same advice I would always, I would give anyway because I got to fulfill that promise, right? But it gave me permission to say something without coming across like an asshole.
you know, versus if I just said really honest, somewhat harsh things in a carousel, they'd be like, add, dang, you know. But if I'm saying, here's advice I'd only give you after three margaritas, then it's like, okay, I want it now. And so your text on screen, like when we do our five -day challenge, most of what we're talking about to double people's reach in five days, because that's a crazy promise, is text on screen.
You guys, it is the quickest way to fix any video because we can take the same footage. And then whatever that anchor text is frames the viewer for how to receive it completely. And so you can take completely benign footage and put some text on screen.
And then that's the frame in which we're watching it. And it is so powerful. And so we'll use just the words a lot to frame the audience for how to receive what we want them to say.
Like I'm going to say something really harsh and rude that I kind of want to tell our audience, but I'm going to frame it as here's something I'd say after three margaritas. Now they feel invited. They feel like they've got to.
We're having margaritas together and they're getting the real Adley. Same type of advice, totally different framing. I love it.
I want you to take the floor really quickly and talk about mindset. I think something that you do such a good job of is making sure that this part is covered. And I always tell my audience, I could give you every strategy in the book, but it will not matter if you don't have the right mindset associated because it's just too hard.
Like no matter how easy it looks like on the front end, you're going to be thinking about. imposter syndrome all the way through. You're going to be thinking about your own insecurities.
You're going to think about those hate comments. It's just natural. So what are you telling them mentally to think about or to own?
Is it a motto, something that you believe in that starts to actually build that belief in someone else too? There's so many directions I want to take this June. Please.
One of the biggest things that somebody told me once that changed my life the most, that on my most anxious days as a content creator that I come back to is if you make your life a life of service. You will never have to wake up lonely, depressed, or anxious another day in your life. And I look at my most anxious days where I feel like I'm not doing enough or I'm not smart enough or my student's getting enough out of this and out of me.
And I realize all those anxieties come down to me thinking about myself and not thinking about them. When you can not think of it as social media, but think of it as service media. and then you just take the focus off of yourself and what you're going to get out of this and how much money you're going to make or whatever your goals are and think about them, your content gets so much better.
You're willing to take a lot more of the blows when it's about them and not about you. And so that is one of the phrases that I come back to. I think Vishen Lakhiani said it.
But if you can make your life a life of service, you truly will never wake up lonely, anxious, or depressed another day in your life. So as soon as those feelings start to creep in, I'm able to recognize because of that awareness, oh, I'm making this about me again, instead of being a steward of the gifts that God gave me to be able to help compress time to value for other people.
When I'm worried about the views and vanity because our company's called Viralish and everything's bombing right now, that's about me again. And so if you really want to do this, you have to recognize that it is a business and that you are an entrepreneur and this is hard and that passion is bullshit. Okay.
Everyone gets into the business thinking that, sorry for the language, but it's a chapter title in one of my favorite books by the author of Dilbert. And the book is called, like Dilbert the comics, and the book is called How to Fail at Almost Everything and Still Win Big. And I think it's chapter three where he talks about passion being bullshit.
And this was a big permission giver for me. What he means is this. We all get into this because we're passionate about it.
And we're passionate about storytelling. We're passionate about our business and our things. Or maybe we want to open a restaurant someday.
So then we finally open the restaurant. And we're so passionate about it. And there's a line around the block.
And we love it. Well, six months in, when the hype is gone and the little momentum is faded, there's no line around the block. And you're doing the books.
And you're struggling to keep the doors open. All of a sudden, the passion fades. The passion kind of fades when you're not winning anymore.
Are you going to stick through it then? Do you really want this? Or did you just think you wanted it because you thought it was going to be easy?
Because some highlight reel on social media made it seem that you could just wake up and drink matcha every day and not do all the boring stuff. I have not earned the right yet as an entrepreneur or a founder to just do the pieces I want to do. 90 % of what I do every day, I've thought about doing a lot of day in the life stuff and vlogging stuff.
I'm like, I'd be sitting here, right? Like it's not fun to watch because that's what this really is. You are a business owner.
And so can you be a great storyteller? Yes, and you should be. But you have to recognize what also comes with it.
And that's why the mindset and protecting your inputs is everything. And I would not take advice from somebody who you would not change places with, who hasn't gone through your unique struggles, who doesn't know what it takes and what it's like and what you're going through. And so that even just the awareness of that, not making it about myself and making it about.
the people that I serve makes it much easier to stick through the blows and just recognizing that I'm not hoping if I'm going to be successful at this. I am deciding. I want to ask you something that is more personal to me as well.
And I'm curious how you think about this as our final question. I think it really puts everything in context for all of us, which is this idea of a deeper sense of why. And you just talked about this, where for you, it is your dad, a part of it.
Now, for me, my dad was a big part of it, too, in different circumstances. And trying to go ahead and provide for him was really, really important. What I have found, and I'm just curious to see if you can say the same or if you actually think about it differently.
I just want to know how Adley views it. For me, I feel like as I have evolved as a person, I've had to find different whys as I go through. As in...
Life just gets hard all the time. And I genuinely thought because we grew up with no money whatsoever, I really thought that once we had money, things would be a lot better in my life. But I realized, again, like you're talking about, God gives us a lot of these challenges.
And I recognized that quite, quite early on. And now I'm thinking about, I'm like, all right, what is my why? And I'm realizing that why is not something that is just concrete one second in time.
That's the thing that you have to hold on to. But it's this constant exploration of like, what is the thing that drives you? And can you stay connected?
to it. I'm curious for you, does that ring true? Has your why evolved over time?
And for you, as you push for the next five years, what do you think is going to be driving you? That is yes. To answer your question, yes.
But you just said it in a way that I've never thought about it before. That really rang true to me because I've always... answered this question as my why is to help people become more confident in their own authenticity and their own abilities.
Because people kind of just, they want confirmation bias. It's a permission slip. I kind of want to do this thing and it's just us saying, you can't and here's how.
But realizing if I want to help people become more confident, it's not enough to just say, be more confident. You have to help them become more competent in it, which is giving skills and parameters and frameworks to help them. feel confident to, in this case, get the reps in.
But I've said that answer for so long, but I felt what you just described. I was like, I think it's evolving for me. That is still it, but it's so...
We have this natural tendency as humans to stay consistent to who we told the world we were once. And it's this behavior characteristic that we have. And I felt it really big coming off the voice.
I'm a singer. But I wanted to get into video. I didn't want the gatekeepers to decide if I was good enough to entertain when I could go direct to consumer.
And so everyone's like, well, you're singing. Oh, you're a failed singer. Okay, because I was just in this box.
And so you're a failure, even though I thought it was a pretty smart pivot. But I felt this need to even bring music into my entertaining world because that's who I told the world I was once. I thought I wanted.
And it is tough. If anybody's going through that right now, I understand it is tough to change your why and to have that pivot and let that be okay. You know, it's part of it and is a very necessary part of it.
And to recognize what was happening for you and that why at that time served you for that season. But if you're doing it right, you will outgrow it or it will be the same thing, but in a different font. You know, it'll look different.
So I think if you are growing, your why does change. At least shape shifts a little bit. It becomes a transformer, you know?
So when you're still figuring it out and you don't have a lot of money, your why is very different. You know, your why is to maybe not have to worry about next month's bills and to take care of your family. That's your why.
Once your basic needs are taken care of, it becomes bigger than that. It becomes... The natural human response, I think, is once your basic needs are taken care of, it's, okay, how can I be helpful?
How can I be the most helpful to somebody else who I once was? Because that's why I'm best equipped to serve. And so I think it has to change.
And I think it can be a very dangerous thing where we let our purpose be defined in a placement. And I'm starting with this right now, June, is like my calling card or what's gotten me on these stages and stuff is the billion views a month and Meta's most viewed female publisher and creator publisher. Am I going to write on that forever?
No. It's a great calling card. I'm very proud of it.
But I need to keep evolving. So what is this next iteration going to be? What is my most useful?
tagline to people, how people would describe me. Because this one has a shelf life. And if I'm doing it right, it should.
And so I just encourage you, the awareness of the fact that it doesn't get easier as you get more successful or have more money, your problems are just bigger. I remember my problems are I can't get what I want to eat on the menu. I can never get avocado.
Certainly not. I couldn't even add sour cream, you know, like my problems or I can't make rent this month. Now my problems are, can I make six figures worth of payroll, you know, for the next 12 months?
I'm worried about not just taking care of my family. I'm worried about taking care of all the families of people in the viral ecosystem. I'm like, the problems are still there.
They're just bigger and in different ways, they're heavier, you know? So even just the acknowledgement and for you guys to have awareness of the fact that it just shapeshifts. But there's no point in this journey where you're just going to be coasting and things are going to feel easy.
Not if you're doing it right. I want to give you so much credit here as I close this out because... You have demonstrated in real time in this conversation, everything that you preach.
So this entire conversation started off explicitly with you helping people with your zone of genius. And you're so good at what you do because you've put in the reps. So you can speak on it at the snap of a finger.
You can talk about it. But as we get into this conversation deeper and deeper and deeper, you're starting to understand the why behind it. You're starting to understand everything that you stand for and what differentiates you, you being a singer.
And what's really funny is you talking about that vlog and thinking it wouldn't be interesting. It would be very interesting to me because we share. quite the same lifestyle in that regard.
So I just want to say thank you so much for your time. I thank you, though, more importantly, for the honesty, because I think a lot of people coming into this will see both of us and think about expertise, like I'm going to come in here to learn the tactics. But what we've just done is broke the veil and said, actually, the whole thing is that we are still imperfect.
We are still trying to sort this through. And that for everyone should be permission to do the same. So Adley, thank you so much for joining us here at Creator Unplugged.
It is a privilege. Thank you, Jim.
The Hook
The bait, then the rug-pull.
The episode opens on a line from the guest's best-performing ad, a blank-faced promise built around one deliberately ugly word. What follows is an hour of the reasoning behind lines like that: the retention numbers she tests against, why narrow callouts shrink reach, and how a glassblowing studio sells classes by talking about divorce.
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Noah Anderson on posting through years of zero views, picturing one viewer instead of a crowd, and why his most vulnerable videos outperformed his most impressive ones.
A 72-minute conversation on personal branding as inner work -- origin stories, authentic pivots, value pricing, emotional lows, and why caring less about your audience makes them show up more.
Cat Goetze (AskCatGPT) walks Jun Yuh through the build-in-public, AI-assisted machine that turned a Bluetooth landline prototype into a $120K-in-three-days launch.
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