Modern Creator
Why Modern Creator?
Vanessa Lau · YouTube

I burned down my 7-figure business and still felt lost

A 1-million-subscriber creator skips the celebration video to sit down with her mentor and explain why the three years after her pivot were the hardest part.

Posted
5 days ago
Duration
Format
Interview
sincere
Views
10.4K
453 likes
Big Idea

The argument in one line.

Pivoting after burnout is an identity problem, not a strategy problem, and you cannot invent your way back to a self by asking your audience who you are.

Who This Is For

Read if. Skip if.

READ IF YOU ARE…
  • A solo founder who walked away from a successful business and, months or years later, still feels lost instead of relieved.
  • A creator whose sense of self got wired to comments, DMs, and metrics, so a single critical reply can wreck a whole week.
  • Someone stuck on the milestone treadmill, convinced relief is waiting at the next revenue number or subscriber count.
  • A builder who keeps vowing to stop being generous or vulnerable because those exact traits keep getting used against them.
SKIP IF…
  • You want tactical pivot mechanics: how to pick a niche, build a funnel, or migrate an audience. This is a mindset conversation, not a playbook.
  • You will bounce off an explicitly Christian frame. The back half grounds identity and worth in God as a literal claim, not a metaphor.
TL;DR

The full version, fast.

Most founders pivot by chasing a new mission, niche, or funnel, trying to do their way back to a self. Jason Jensen reverses the order with a framework he calls RIM: Relationship precedes Identity, which precedes Mission. Identity is received from people who actually know you, not extracted from an audience, so when Vanessa posted raw pain and read the comments as answers to who am I, every critique destabilized her. The fixes are practical: share the scar not the open wound, affirm real-life people out loud until you can see good in yourself, stop treating milestones as the place relief lives, and shift from being a ladder your audience must climb to a bridge that meets them where they are.

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Chapters

Where the time goes.

00:00 – 01:25

01 · Teaser

Cold-open montage of the rawest lines: burned it down, felt more lost, identity is received not grasped.

01:25 – 02:27

02 · Why I'm posting this

Instead of a 1M-subscriber celebration video, Vanessa shares an honest conversation with her mentor Jason.

02:27 – 06:45

03 · Feeling lost after the sabbatical

Three years after shutting down her business she still feels washed; a new venture, Superboba, and the YouTube channel pull in different directions.

06:45 – 11:48

04 · The concept of life harmony

Jason's first reframe: she can integrate all of it in harmony instead of choosing one lane and burning out.

11:48 – 17:32

05 · Open wounds vs. scars

Her weekly vulnerable yaps were shared from open wounds, so feedback was dysregulating; she didn't yet know herself.

17:32 – 25:32

06 · RIM: Relationship, Identity, Mission

The core framework. Identity is received through relationship, then mission flows out; she had been running it backwards via AI and audience feedback.

25:32 – 36:00

07 · Why we seek identity from the internet

We learn who we are through others' faces; outsourcing that to an audience is not how it was designed. Resentment of the audience explained.

36:00 – 38:37

08 · Love as the most important currency

The billion-dollars-or-love thought experiment; what if businesses measured love instead of extraction.

38:37 – 47:13

09 · The encouragement exercise

Jason's homework: affirm real-life people out loud. She resisted for weeks; doing it let her see good in others and then in herself.

47:13 – 57:54

10 · Overcoming the not-enoughness trap

The milestone treadmill and money as a status stick; a recent trip where she stayed calm instead of peacocking.

57:54 – 1:13:08

11 · You are a good idea: the fractal concept

The explicitly Christian core: you were an idea in the mind of God, a unique unrepeatable fractal; enoughness is built in, not earned.

1:13:08 – 1:23:47

12 · Gifts, wounds, and the devil using your strengths

Your wound lands on your gift; generosity and authenticity are exactly what got used against her, hence the vow to never do them again.

1:23:47 – 1:32:05

13 · Almost quitting YouTube, hitting 1M

She nearly abandoned the channel right before a million subs; the reset came from realizing people follow her for her, and the platform is a gift to steward.

1:32:05 – 1:39:50

14 · From ladder to bridge

Old content was a ladder that made viewers feel lacking; the new posture is a bridge that meets them where they are and invites rather than threatens.

1:39:50 – 1:43:23

15 · Closing reflections

Jason's accompaniment practice, gratitude, and the hope that viewers walk away holding life differently.

Atomic Insights

Lines worth screenshotting.

  • Pivoting after burnout is an identity problem wearing a strategy costume; a new funnel will not fix a missing sense of self.
  • Identity is received from people who know you, not invented alone or extracted from an audience's comments.
  • If you post from an open wound instead of a healed scar, every piece of feedback lands on raw tissue and destabilizes you.
  • It is never okay at the next milestone; people at the top reach it and discover they are still not happy.
  • When you don't know who you are, a single negative comment feels like a verdict on your identity rather than an opinion about your work.
  • The fastest way out of self-judgment is to practice encouraging others, because the muscle that critiques you is the same one you can retrain.
  • Your deepest wound sits directly on top of your greatest gift, which is why the trait that made you also keeps getting used against you.
  • A ladder tells your audience they are lacking and must climb to you; a bridge tells them they are already enough and invites them across.
  • Using money as a status measuring stick guarantees exhaustion, because there is always someone with more, which you will read as smarter and happier.
  • You participated in building what you have, but you did not earn the gifts you started with, so hold the outcome as stewardship, not possession.
  • Sharing intimate struggles with internet strangers before your own family knows them is prioritizing feedback from people who cannot actually see you.
Takeaway

Rebuild the self before you rebuild the business.

WHAT TO LEARN

After a pivot the hardest work is not finding a new mission but recovering a sense of who you are that does not depend on an audience, a milestone, or a number.

03Feeling lost after the sabbatical
  • The pain that follows a pivot is an identity vacuum, not a strategy gap; a new niche or funnel cannot fill a missing sense of self.
06RIM: Relationship, Identity, Mission
  • Run relationship before identity before mission: let people who actually know you tell you who you are, then let the work flow out of that.
  • Stop reading audience comments as answers to who am I; strangers cannot see you, so their verdicts should not carry that weight.
05Open wounds vs. scars
  • Share the scar, not the open wound; publish hardship you have processed, because feedback on pain you are still inside of will destabilize you.
10Overcoming the not-enoughness trap
  • The next milestone will not deliver relief; people who reach the top report the same emptiness, so stop staking your okayness on the number.
09The encouragement exercise
  • Beat self-judgment by practicing encouragement of others out loud; the muscle that critiques you is the one you retrain by affirming people you know.
12Gifts, wounds, and the devil using your strengths
  • Expect your greatest gift and your deepest wound to sit on top of each other, which is why the trait that made you keeps getting used against you.
14From ladder to bridge
  • Be a bridge, not a ladder: meet your audience where they are and tell them they are already enough instead of implying they are behind you.
13Almost quitting YouTube, hitting 1M
  • Hold what you built as stewardship, not possession; you participated in it, but the raw gifts you started with were never something you earned.
Glossary

Terms worth knowing.

RIM (Relationship, Identity, Mission)
Jason Jensen's ordering framework: you receive identity through real relationships, and your mission flows out of that identity. Reversing it, chasing a mission to discover who you are, hands your sense of self to whatever the world hands back.
Open wounds vs. scars
The distinction between sharing pain you are still inside of versus a hardship you have processed and gained distance from. Vulnerability from a scar is stable; vulnerability from an open wound leaves you defenseless against feedback.
Not-enoughness
The chronic sense that you have not yet done enough to be acceptable, which drives milestone-chasing and never resolves at the next milestone.
Fractal (as used here)
Jason's image for a person as a unique, unrepeatable expression of God-as-love, like one snowflake made of the same water as every other. The point is that your worth is built in rather than earned.
Ladder vs. bridge
Two postures toward an audience. A ladder positions you above them so they must climb to your level; a bridge meets them where they are, affirms they are enough, and invites them across without threat.
Accompaniment mentor
Jason's term for his practice, which he distinguishes from coaching: walking alongside a person on life and identity rather than fixing one narrow business problem.
Resources

Things they pointed at.

1:39:00linkJason Jensen (mentor) ↗
1:39:00productGlass Canvas Consulting ↗
1:39:00productGlass Canvas Ministries ↗
1:39:00channelMy Buddy Pete (podcast) ↗
04:50productSuperboba (superfood milk tea business) ↗
Quotables

Lines you could clip.

00:07
“It's never okay at the next milestone. That's why people at the top realize, hey, I'm still not happy.”
names the milestone-treadmill lie in one line, no setup needed→ IG reel cold open↗ Tweet quote
00:19
“Identity is received. You can't receive something if you're trying to grasp at things all the time.”
tight paradox, the thesis of the whole video→ TikTok hook↗ Tweet quote
17:24
“I was speaking from open wounds rather than scars.”
instantly memorable metaphor for oversharing→ newsletter pull-quote↗ Tweet quote
47:13
“I used money as a measuring stick of whether someone is higher status than me. If they have more than me, they must be smarter, happier, better than me.”
brutally honest confession most founders won't say out loud→ TikTok hook↗ Tweet quote
1:32:05
“I was treating my content as a ladder. Look how high I am. Follow these things and you can get there too. But it's actually a bridge.”
clean before/after reframe with a visual metaphor→ IG reel cold open↗ Tweet quote
1:00:00
“The operating system is already within me. Everything I need is already in me, maybe there's some cobwebs on it.”
vivid image for you-are-already-enough→ newsletter pull-quote↗ Tweet quote
The Script

Word for word.

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metaphoranalogy
00:00My first business was a big multiple 7 figure business. I burned it down because of burnout. Vanessa Lau built a multimillion dollar content business and walked away from it.
00:10She recently announced that she was shutting every thing down.
00:15She discontinued her creator supercharged mastermind, scaled down her 7 figure business, retired Boss Graham Academy to take an indefinite sabbatical.
00:23All of her followers were like, what happened to Vanessa?
00:27I fully expected that right after I'd come back full swing, but instead, I felt more lost than before. I was constantly shaming myself for the last three years being, I'm not growing enough. I'm not there yet.
00:39Why haven't I built a multimillion million dollar business yet? It's been three years. You know, I did it once.
00:45I should be able to do it again. I was just putting constant pressure on myself. That sounds exhausting to carry the world that way.
00:51It's never okay at the next milestones. That's why people at the top realize, hey. I'm still not happy.
00:56But a lot of times, we go through the world going, I have to define my own meaning. And I think that it's just such a burden for the modern self. Identity is something that I have to either invent for myself.
01:09Really, identity is received. You can't receive something if you're trying to grasp at things all the time. I think there's a lot of people who are carrying life in a very tiring, exhausting, and burdening way.
01:21Yeah. And there's another way. Yeah.
01:23There's another way to carry it.
01:25Before we begin, I know I usually don't post videos like this, but that's kind of the point because this YouTube channel recently hit a million subscribers. And instead of doing your typical celebration video, I would much rather share something that's more honest with you and that is a reflection on where I'm at in my journey so far.
01:41For the last few months, I've been working with a mentor behind the scenes. His name is Jason, and he's been an entrepreneur for many decades. And a topic that we often talk about is how I can hold a platform like this without losing myself in the process.
01:54Because not only has this happened to me before, but earlier this year, I almost gave up on this YouTube channel. And so what you just saw was a teaser of the conversation that I'm about to share with you. We talk about burnout, identity, not enoughness, God, and so much more.
02:08And so if you are someone who is constantly chasing milestones, never feeling like you're enough, or you lack a sense of purpose in your work and in your life, then I think you'll really see yourself in this. My intention is to simply share a conversation that I wish more creators and entrepreneurs had access to.
02:22So let's get the conversation started starting with this very first question that Jason asked me. Where were you three months ago or four months ago when we first got together? I saw somebody kinda walk into the room, and we were introduced by
02:36a mutual Kevin. Kevin.
02:38So shout out to Kevin. I saw a young woman who was overwhelmed by her gifts and capacities.
02:49And in a place where your trajectory was up, but as you carried that on your person, it felt like you were just going into the bigger you got, the more burden was gonna come for you.
03:09Mhmm. And the way you were able to hold all of that felt like you were uncertain as to how to move forward with life.
03:19Yeah. And so that's kinda where you were.
03:22I have notes from our from our sessions that I could maybe, you know Yeah. I mean, I think
03:29for me after burning down my business, my first business was, like, a big multiple 7 figure business, and on paper, it was really successful. Um, but I burned it down because of burnout.
03:41I fully expected that right after I'd come back, like, full swing, you know, completely renewed, but instead, I felt more lost than before.
03:52And when I shut down my first business, that was three years ago. And a part of me just carried a lot of shame and rumination because I feel like, it's been three years.
04:03Like, how come I still feel like I don't have my mojo back? And how come I feel like everyone else who's burning down their businesses right now like, I did it three years ago, but now I see other people making huge pivots like I did.
04:17For some reason, it just seems like they bounce back so much faster, and they seem to have have it all figured out. And here I am three years into it and still wondering, like, where am I going?
04:29And beyond that, because I had experienced so much growth in my first business, I was also afraid of growth at the same time because it costed me so much.
04:44And so I had started a new business with my husband. It's called Super Boba. You know this.
04:49Mhmm. Um, and I almost felt lost with that too because I know that with this new company that I started that there that what it would require of me to have it thrive and have it grow.
05:06And I was like, I'm not ready. I don't know if I'm ready for that yet. And then beyond that, because I was working with my husband, he took on like, just sharing a business with someone else was very hard for me too because I'm so used to be being the one that's the driving force of everything.
05:22Mhmm. And to have someone else be the driving force of everything and being the leader, I was like, what where does that leave leave me?
05:30And so I think when I met you, I was kind of in this juncture point where, okay, I want to grow, but I'm scared of growth. I have this other business where I don't know where my place is in. And then I have this YouTube channel, which doesn't really fully relate to the new business I started.
05:47Mhmm. But I still like making videos, but I also don't like making videos.
05:54And I don't know why I'm making videos. And so I was just feeling really confused with all these things happening.
06:06And I remember when I I met you, I told you, I was like, I feel I feel washed. Like Mhmm.
06:13I think my I think my time is over. Like, I don't know how to move forward from this because I know what's required to succeed, but all those things that led to my success in the first place burned me out so badly.
06:30So how do I succeed? Like, what is the is there another path for this?
06:35And so that's kinda where I was at when I first met you. Yeah. I remember our first that session that we were together was, like it was more like six hours.
06:43But Yeah. That's a long one. And
06:46one of the things that I said that felt like it hit you as relief was this idea that you could have harmony in life. Mhmm. And you could have your life integrated, and so you had I I said this to you, but you were, like, right on the verge of burnout.
07:04And whenever you would try to get back into, like, okay. I'm just gonna muscle up and do the work and, like, get things done, you would feel like all the energy would just leave you. And you were really carrying that when we were together in that in that moment.
07:22And so you felt like, oh, I have this goal here, and I have this goal here, and they're pulling me in different directions, and I don't know how to do that. I don't even know how to bring my life together.
07:33And and that's where we kinda started in saying, okay. Well, I think that there's a way where you can actually pull all of these things and have a unity of your life in a way that is not gonna crush you, is not gonna make you bitter to the audience that you have Yeah.
07:52That you feel like you're going to be able to share with them and not not do that, and that's gonna lead you not into just burning out eventually.
08:01Like, had this picture from one of the first times that we saw each other where it's, like, just these little tiny pieces of your heart were going out, but there was nothing that was coming back to replenishing you or the source of any of that was just not available to you. Yeah.
08:16And, yeah, that's what that's what I was really excited to start working Yeah.
08:23In the beginning. I agree. Do you remember those days?
08:26Yeah. I think
08:27you're right. Like, what really stood out to me was the idea that I could do it all in harmony because when I met you, I was like, okay.
08:36I either have to choose Superboba or I have to choose my YouTube channel. And at the time, I was also thinking about starting a family.
08:45I don't know if you remember that. And I was like, oh my goodness.
08:49Like, I I need to figure out what my lane is before I start popping these kids because I am so scared to lose my identity again even though I haven't I I felt like at the time, I I still hadn't found it, and I was in a rush to find it.
09:04I think that's kind of the heart of it where, you know, I tried the the hustle entrepreneur thing, selling online courses, and being this YouTuber. And it burned me out, and I didn't enjoy doing it.
09:17And then now I'm doing this tea business with my husband.
09:22But at the same time, there's something still pulling me back to wanting to make videos, but how do these two relate? Mhmm. And then I've got the the the potential mom thing coming up.
09:33And so I almost felt like I was in a rush and hurry to figure it out, and I was just trying this and trying that. And even though I didn't feel like I was physically burnt out, I was mentally burnt out.
09:45Yeah. And I was also shaming myself because I would be ruminating in bed, like, just literally in bed being like, what do I need to work on today? And how do I get to where I need to go?
09:57And then months would pass, and I hadn't done anything. Mhmm. Because I was just always in my head and so frozen with all the different options.
10:07And it wasn't until you introduced the concept of, no. Like, you can actually have everything exist in harmony. It's just you just need to approach how you approach life differently so you can carry it all.
10:18That's kind of what you need to to really, uh, focus on and look into. And I think when we started working together, I kind of had my doubts in my mind of, like, is that even possible?
10:32Um, because I've never experienced coaching like how we have Mhmm. Before in my years of having mentors and coaches.
10:41Like, every coach that I've had would focus on one specific thing. Um, whereas our time together, it was really not what I expected, but everything that I needed.
10:53Mhmm. Mhmm. I I wanna talk about identity because I felt like when you came and there's a lot of people that this seems to be just in the culture around us all over the place, where identity is something that I have to either invent for myself.
11:10Mhmm. I have to figure out and invent myself, or I have to, like, clutch at it.
11:16I have to, like, grasp at it. And, really, identity is received.
11:24If and you can't receive something if you're trying to grasp at things all the time. It's not the posture of your heart to be able to do that.
11:34Mhmm. And I think one of the hardest things for me in our relationship was actually slowing you down enough to be able to see see things. That was so hard, though, because
11:44when we met, I was doing these weekly yaps. And you told me to just stop.
11:52Like, you told me you weren't you didn't force me to stop, you know, posting on my YouTube, but you encouraged me to take a break so that we could actually work on the foundations.
12:06And that was actually something that I didn't realize I needed because for me, when I go through something in my life, the immediate reaction is I need to post about it, and I need to share it on the Internet.
12:22And it's kinda weird because it almost feels like the Internet knows more about my problems than the people in my actual life. Mhmm. And so whenever I posted those vulnerable yaps, I I would feel good because it was almost like a release for me because I didn't have an outlet to release to.
12:39And so making YouTube videos and talking about my problems in real time was my way of releasing. But then afterwards, I would almost, like, have to retreat again because I would get so much feedback on the problems that I was still going through.
12:56And it kinda made me realize the the weekly yaps that I did, the vulnerable videos that I did, as much as I wanted to share and document the process of me healing Mhmm.
13:06I was kinda speaking from open wounds rather than scars. Mhmm. And because I'm expressing myself through things that I haven't thought through yet, and I kinda did it impulsively.
13:15I'm, like, just sharing things.
13:18Whenever I got feedback, whether it was positive or negative, it would be very dysregulating for me. And it was actually you that mentioned the word dysregulating. You asked me, do you find it dysregulating when you post these videos?
13:29And I'm like, yeah. Why is it that when I post something so vulnerable, if I get even just one negative comment or one perspective that, like, kinda stings, I'll just stop posting.
13:42Like, it'll just ruin my whole whole week.
13:45Yeah. And what's amazing about you is actually you have a gift of being able to be vulnerable publicly in the way that you are.
13:54Mhmm. But it's the the being in the thing that you haven't sorted out yet, being shared, like, in the moment of vulnerability is is what you were sharing as opposed to this was something that happened to me that was vulnerable, and you're having some distance between those things.
14:13So hope the people who love what you bring to the Internet I'm not trying to kill that. No.
14:19Like, I'm actually trying to say Because of Jason. Who didn't post. You're never gonna be vulnerable again online.
14:25No. But because that's the gift of who you are is a lot of that. Yeah.
14:29It's being able to say, hey. This is the heart of the thing as I carry it in my heart. And I think a lot of people love that you do that.
14:38Yeah. And it makes you relatable. Like, I think about your first video that you ever posted when you shared that with me of, like, I quit my job because this wasn't working for me.
14:46Like, that is vulnerable. Mhmm. But the idea of, like, hey.
14:51This is the I'm triggered right now, and I'm share it with you Yeah. And just creating some distance of, oh, how do I hold that properly?
14:59Yeah. I was speaking from a place of trigger, but also,
15:02and I didn't know this at the time until we started really hashing things out about, like, myself and how I see the world and all of that, is I didn't know myself. Right?
15:14Mhmm. So whenever I post something that is very vulnerable, obviously, that's the most honest version of myself right now.
15:22And so if I receive feedback about it, I will automatically think, oh my goodness.
15:28Like, you think this about me. That must be true.
15:31Mhmm. That must be who I am. And so I think that's why it would dysregulate me so much is because I didn't have a strong enough sense of self to carry the weight of all of that feedback.
15:45And with YouTube or making content, like, it's so easy to hide behind a niche or to have a persona that you create for yourself. In in my case, for years, I was perceived as an expert social media teacher.
15:57So if someone told me that they don't like my strategies or the strategy didn't work, like, I wouldn't take it so personally. But with the more vulnerable videos where I'm actually sharing things that I'm truly going through, that's personal. Mhmm.
16:10But the problem is if you don't know who you are, and I didn't at the time, um, and I didn't have that confidence, it's really easy to get broken down by the feedback. Whereas if I actually had a strong foundation and I know who I am and I know, you know, what my gifts are, what my weaknesses are, whatever it is, then those comments shouldn't affect me as much because I know who I am and I'm confident.
16:36I think what you a word that you mentioned is self assuredness.
16:41Mhmm.
16:43And so that was ultimately what made me wanna explore more of that, that identity piece.
16:50Yeah. Because that was something that I was still lacking. And even with, let's say, starting Superboba, like, for me, prior to that, I was so used to being like, when I had my own business, I was just a solo founder.
17:05I was so used to being the one that called the shots, being the one that drove the growth of everything. It relied on my face.
17:13It would succeed. And then once I started sharing a business with someone, I was like, well, what role do I play now?
17:22Who am I without being the leader and the the strategist and and all these things? And so
17:29that was something I hadn't figured out yet. Yeah. One And I was doing those.
17:32Yeah. One one of the first things that we talked about as a framework is relationship identity mission Yeah.
17:40That order or RIM. Yeah. You I know you and I have talked about it, but I think it's helpful to explain how you've started to hold life differently because so many of us go out and we we go looking for a mission and something to do, some way to live ourselves out into the world.
18:00Right? And when the order is that we're trying to live out a mission, you know, try to live ourselves out in the world in order to find out who we are, our identity, in order to be loved and in a relationship with people, that all of a sudden, you're handing all this power over to what you do, and people start to think I am what I do.
18:24Yeah. But that's not actually true, and that's a very difficult way to hold life, yet so many of us do it.
18:31And just being human, we're vulnerable to that as a, like, a condition. Mhmm.
18:37But if I actually got what I needed in relationship and relationship bestows identity onto me, says, Vanessa, this is how I see you.
18:47This is who I see you to be. Right? Then I go, okay.
18:52That's my identity. If from the relationships that are around me and, you know, it can be from, uh, god to, like, in that, a transcendent relationship.
19:02I'm not sure where all your people are in that as well, but that's okay. And then if I receive my identity and say, this is who I am, now the question becomes, how do I get to live that out in the world? And that it's a relationship bestows identity, and I outflow of identity is my my mission and my purpose.
19:23Yeah. But when I'm trying to go, I don't know who I am. I have no self assuredness.
19:29I'm trying to ask the world, in your case through a YouTube video, hey. Who am I?
19:37And then when the comments come back for people, they're like, hey. You're this and you're that.
19:43And some of them are great and some of them are not great. And then you're like, I don't know who I am, and that can be such a such a floundering feeling for for somebody.
19:56You know? And I think what I've seen in you over our time together over the last several months is, like, it's it's become more concrete as to, like, oh, who am I? How am I made?
20:09And then how can I bring that to people, not just to run a business?
20:15The other thing that we've been talking about is your identity is actually how you were made to love the world. Mhmm.
20:23Right? We've talked about love a lot. Yeah.
20:26And I don't mean, like, a romanticized version of love or, like, I love ice cream kind of love. I'm talking about an actual self gift of this is who I am, and this is what I have to offer the world so that they can benefit.
20:42Mhmm. And a lot of that has just been you've taken that in, you've internalized that, and you've been able to offer yourself in a way that you really want to bless and give to people.
20:55Yeah.
20:56So I don't know. Yeah. I think when you shared the concept of RIM, like relationship, identity, mission, It was refreshing and scary for me, but refreshing because before I had seen it the opposite where I'm like, what's my mission?
21:17What's my purpose? I would even use ChatGPT AI to be like, okay.
21:21Like, what is my purpose? What is my tagline? Like, what is my I help like, who am I helping?
21:27And, you know, what's the purpose of my channel? And then I would try to reverse engineer that Mhmm. Which is, okay.
21:33This is through AI or through whatever. Like, this is my this is who I am.
21:38This is what I what my platform is made for. Okay? So, therefore, this is gonna be how I act.
21:43These are gonna be the habits that I adopt day to day, and then these are gonna be the people that I attract. And so I kinda had it opposite. Whereas for you, when you flipped it on its head and you mentioned exactly what you said where, no.
21:59Actually, you need to be in relationship with other people, and that will tell you what your identity is and how God made you. And then from there, you'll naturally know what your purpose and your mission is. Um, that was refreshing, but it was also scary because I had almost like residual trauma from growing a big online platform where I was like, don't wanna be in a relationship with anybody.
22:23Like, when I came back from my burnout, from my sabbatical, I didn't wanna go to events. I didn't want to go to any coffee shop dates.
22:32I didn't wanna meet strangers anymore. I just didn't want to put myself out there anymore. And I think because I associated that with transactional relationships, which is why I was so hesitant to even meet you.
22:45Like, the first thought that I had when Kevin said, hey. You should meet Jason.
22:49He's a great guy. I think you guys would hit it off. Wasn't, wow.
22:53Okay. I trust Kevin, and I know that me and Jason like, he brought me and Jason together for a reason, and I there's probably so much I could learn.
23:00It was immediately, what does this guy want? Mhmm. Oh, he probably wants me to, you know, help him with his YouTube channel.
23:07That was how I saw relationships before was give and take because of my experience of being in business, and I felt like those types of relationships was what burnt me out in the first place and activated my people pleasing Mhmm.
23:23Activated my need to perform and to say yes to things that I actually don't wanna say yes to. Yeah.
23:30And then beyond that, one thing that I did learn from the concept of RIM, which is being in relationship, which would then lead to your identity and then your mission, is I also feel like I was getting feedback from the wrong places.
23:48I was getting I was entering relationship with people that don't actually know me in real life. Mhmm.
23:55And to your point, those yaps and were basically cries for who am I, guys? Like, you know, this is what I'm going through. These are the problems I'm struggling with.
24:03What do you guys think? And what do you like, what's your opinion on me? But the truth is is that no one on the Internet will actually truly know who I am, but the people who know who I am are my mom, my dad, you know, people that I actually get very vulnerable with, um, like my church group or even my friends who I've known for decades.
24:24These are the people who actually know Mhmm. Me in full.
24:29But at the same time, I had this reflection moment where actually, why am I sharing all of these intimate things with people on the Internet? I haven't even shared this with with my mom or with my best friend.
24:41Like, my best friend's just learning about these things through my YouTube yet. As a whole bunch of Internet strangers are Yeah.
24:47It was almost like I was prioritizing Internet strangers over my actual relationships.
24:53And so when you told me to take a pause Mhmm. Take a beat, and to maybe not document everything that I'm feeling every single week and to instead take a step back and actually be in relation with my friends, with my family, that's when I actually felt change in myself.
25:15And we can talk all, like, all about how, you know, that worked out, but that's what Rim taught me. Mhmm.
25:23Was that I was actually approaching it in a very opposite way, and even if I was looking for relationships, it was in the wrong people. Yeah.
25:32Can we break down just a few theory things in that too just to expand it for people who you and I know what REM is, and we talked a lot about it. But we literally grow up not knowing who we are except in the face of others.
25:48Like, when you're a little baby, like, you borrow your mother's prefrontal cortex to know who you are.
25:56What do you mean by that? Your brain is not developed enough as a little kid to even understand how you should feel about yourself. Mhmm.
26:03And so it's actually through the communication that happens I'd like in eye contact as a little kid. So when you were just like this little bit, you know, this big, when you looked into your mom's eyes and saw through her face, you understood how to feel about yourself.
26:19Mhmm. Right? So you're crying.
26:21You're dysregulated. You look in your mom, and her nervous system is the one, you know, brain and, you know, all of the your affect, you know, like how you regulate it and things like that.
26:33That's what's telling you through the face of your mom and your dad is what's telling you how to feel. Mhmm. Who you are, how to feel.
26:41And and in healthy parenting, the look we know who we are when the way our parents look at us.
26:54Right? When you're like, hey, I wanna go do this thing, and you see in your parents' eyes whether they believe in you or not or, you know, like, that that is so you.
27:04Uh, some of us didn't get parts of that. Some of us didn't get any of that.
27:09Some you know, all that kind of stuff, but that's the way we were designed to relate as it as it is in, like, the eyes and the face of another.
27:18So when when you're putting it out to the Internet to say, hey. I need this thing.
27:23Can you give it to me? It's it's not the way it was, like, intended versus the people who have walked alongside you, your parents, your small group, like, all that kind of stuff.
27:34Those are the eyes and the faces that we need to tell us who we are so that we can then go out into the world and, you know, venture, like, to adventure into the world as ourselves. And in individuals like yourself, like, you come with just so much capacity to go into the world, you know, and to, like, start big things and, like, accelerate those things and, like, put them out there.
28:01Like, that can get very flipped upside down very quickly.
28:07I think it's actually unfortunate. I don't think this is a this is just part of what it means to be in the culture right now.
28:15Like, two hundred years ago, a hundred years ago, maybe even fifty years ago, people didn't have audiences like you're able to have right now.
28:26And we're still immature as a society as to how to carry that well.
28:34And so that's part of what you've learned over the last three months is like to how to hold that in a way that's Yeah.
28:41That's better and more peaceful. Yeah. Because otherwise, you're just in this game that just keeps going and going and going where you're like, okay.
28:50Maybe relief is around the next corner. Maybe when I grow from this milestone to the next milestone, then then it'll be okay.
28:58Then I'll feel okay. Mhmm. And you're somebody who's gone through many milestones, and it's never okay at the next milestones.
29:07That's why people at the top realize, hey. I'm still not happy.
29:11Yeah. I also think, you know, when I met you, I was also, I wanna say, scared of my own audience or resentful Mhmm.
29:25In a sense where I felt like, okay. I'm giving all this value online.
29:32This is how I was thinking before. I'm giving all this value online and people still want more. Mhmm.
29:36Or maybe I don't post and someone's like, where are you? Mhmm. Like, you know, almost to me, it felt like a demand of, like, needing me to to perform and to be a dancing monkey.
29:47And, um, I had that relationship with my audience or at the time, and it kinda made me wonder, like, why am I doing YouTube?
30:02Like, why am I, like, why am I putting myself out there only to feel like it's never enough.
30:12Mhmm. And I think that was something that I really struggled with was the not enoughness piece.
30:21And so maybe we can talk about that because that's, like, a big part of our conversation Mhmm.
30:27That we have every single week. The last three months was me never feeling like I'm ever enough.
30:34Yeah. And it's funny because even when you reflect back to me, oh, you have high capacity. You're able to build big things.
30:41Like, my first reaction is like, what? Like, really? I don't I don't know.
30:47Are you sure? Because I remember when we first met and we're like, you know, our time together, we were still getting to know each other, and you're like, you're this and you're this and you're that and you're saying nice things. And I was like, I don't believe you.
30:58That's not how I feel about myself at all. And so I wonder what your perspective is on that. Yeah.
31:05Well and just for clarity, like, when when you say there was, like, a resentment growing or whatever with your audience, it wasn't because you were ungrateful that you had an audience or all those things.
31:19I wanna make sure that people don't misunderstand you in that. Yeah. It was that the nature of the relationship that you had with your audience was, hey.
31:29If I offer you value, then you guys give me something back. And then when you're like, oh, I feel like I'm burning out and I'm draining on the one hand, they're still wanting something from you.
31:44That's how you are carrying it. It's not necessarily how your audience is carrying it. Right?
31:48And that became clear, but it's like this tension of, like, what's the relationship that you have with the people that follow you? Right?
31:57Like like and one of the one of the things that we were working on is, like, what if it's these are just people that you get to love and you get to share with them as opposed to, hey.
32:16We'll we'll put a a lot of the a lot of times the way the contractual relationship with an audience goes is you guys are willing to give me money, and then I will fulfill that money with myself.
32:30Right? And it's particularly tricky with people who have a personal brand element with what they're doing.
32:38Right? Because then it's not the product that I'm offering you.
32:41It's me that I'm offering you in some way, and that becomes very tricky. Yeah. But what flips the whole way we carry life is to say, why don't I love the world in the way that I'm supposed to?
32:56And then people can return that love by honoring with support in whatever way that might be. Sometimes that's monetarily.
33:04Sometimes that's paying for the value that you're putting out. Sometimes that's just with the attention that they they give in a video or what that whatever that might be. And in that way, the exchange is not a I'm using you so that I can get what I need, and we're just both comfortable with playing that game, which happens all over the place in the world that we live in.
33:27Mhmm. But instead, we flip the script and we say, I'm going to love you well, and I will trust that the honor and whatever form, if that's money or if that's attention or whatever, will come back.
33:40Yeah. And sometimes it's not gonna come back in the way that we expected. But then I can say, I'm free to love.
33:47Yeah. I'm free to love. I'm I can really give value in a way that I think is gonna give value.
33:53I can really give advice. I can teach well.
34:01I can make things easy to digest for people, which is I think when I see you as having high capacity and giftedness, it's that you're showing up in a way where you're like, I haven't watched a lot of your videos.
34:15But one of the ones I started watching just to get more of a sense of, like, who you are Yeah.
34:21It was like a a descriptive video of me teaching. And it's you have a beautiful gift to be able to teach in a way that brings it it's actually a beautiful way to teach in that you simplify things, you can explain them in a way that people can take them in quite easily.
34:47You reflect your own experience of the thing with that. And high capacity doesn't mean that you can just, like, that you have high output.
34:57That's not what I'm saying. It's just that, hey. You can run a YouTube channel that has a million people subscribing to it.
35:05Right? Yeah. I can't hand that to my nine year old daughter.
35:10Right? Like, she doesn't have that kind of capacity Yeah.
35:13In in this moment, mainly because she's nine, you know, or any of my any of my kids.
35:22But you have the capacity to share ideas with lots of people. Yeah.
35:28That's that's capacity. Mhmm. And you have the ability to do that in a way that is generative.
35:37Like, it it people like it, you know, or they wouldn't subscribe or they wouldn't follow you or they wouldn't do all those things. So Mhmm. When when I say your high high basic capacity, those are the things that I'm meaning.
35:48Yeah. I think
35:50there's one thing that you said that I want to go back on because it impacted me a lot during our coaching time together was when you talk about love.
36:01And to be honest, when you first mentioned that, you know, in our first first two sessions or whatever, and you were like, you know, you just gotta love. Like, that's not how you said it, but we talked about love a lot.
36:13And I think for me at the time, I was like, that's so cheesy. Like and maybe because I came from an Asian household where, like, we don't really show love a lot.
36:23I was like, like, this sounds kinda lame. Like, you know, it's just such a weird word for me Mhmm.
36:29To use in a like, not gonna lie. When I started working with you, I was like, okay.
36:35This guy's gonna help me with my with my business. He's gonna help me with my whatever. And it ended up being very life centered, very relationship centered, which I wasn't expecting, but it was actually what I needed.
36:48And so when you talk about love in a what I think is a business context, I was like, ugh. That's so weird. Like, kinda cheesy.
36:57Like, kinda lame. Mhmm. Um, but then it wasn't until you mentioned how love is the most important currency, and you asked, you know, if you could choose between a billion dollars, but you would never experience love again and no one would ever love you again, you could not love again, would you choose the billion dollars?
37:19And for most people, they would say no. Mhmm. They would say no to the billions.
37:23And so it wasn't until you kinda broke that down for me where I realized, like, woah. Like, love is actually the most important thing.
37:34And I think even you mentioned, like, what if businesses actually use love as a metric and, like, as a currency rather than how much money can we extract from people? How much, you know, transactions and orders can we get from people? How can we optimize for conversion?
37:49Like, if you just focused on the love part, a lot of that would come because people feel love from you. They feel valued.
37:56And so it wasn't really until you broke it down that way where I realized love is more important than money. And, you know, to your point, you could love someone. You could love like, pour love into your work.
38:06And, yeah, maybe the money may not come, but at least you know where your intentions were. And I think that was what I hadn't cracked the code on yet when we first started working together because I don't even think I loved myself, to be honest.
38:22Mhmm. And I think so much of our work was about that, was how can I get to a place where I love myself?
38:29And there were a series of weird tests and experiments that you made me do that I was very uncomfortable with doing.
38:37Yeah. Do you wanna talk about them? Yeah.
38:39I'll talk about them because I was so uncomfortable. Oh my gosh. So Jason basically made me what did you make me do?
38:47Ugh. It was so it was like, whenever you wanna say something to someone, like, you want you you see something good in them or you see something that you admire about them.
39:00Um, you see some beauty or whatever, like, tell them right away and tell them how like, just tell them. Text it to them.
39:08Say it to them. Whatever. Like, just affirm people.
39:11And I was like, like, I feel like it's easy that's easy for me to do with strangers on the Internet.
39:18Mhmm. Like, I could easily go see someone's post, like, maybe an acquaintance or something, be like, oh my gosh. You're amazing.
39:23I love your work. Like, keep on going. You're awesome.
39:27But you specifically told me to do it with people in my life, like my friends that I've known for fifteen years, my mom, my dad. Like and to me, that was so uncomfortable.
39:40But it also made me realize that I don't do that to the people around me. And I don't know if because it's an Asian thing where we don't express like, we don't ex like, we don't verbally express things.
39:53Like, we usually do, like, you know, here's food. I made you something. Or, like, let's just make fun of each other and, like, spend time together kind of thing.
40:01But to actually have to tell my friend, hey. I just wanna say that I think you're so beautiful, and here are some amazing qualities that I've noticed about you, and here's how you make me feel.
40:17That was a challenge for me. But you told me to do it.
40:21And I think for weeks, didn't do it. And you were like, did you do it yet? Did you do it yet?
40:25Did you do it yet? I'm like, no. Not yet.
40:28Almost. I thought about it. Yeah.
40:31I thought about it, but I didn't do it. But I did it. And I slowly started to be more observant, first of all, of the positive qualities that people in my life have.
40:47And then I started to actually it started with maybe a text, like, hey. You know, this is what I noticed, and I just wanna say, like, I love you, and I just wanna say how much I appreciate you.
41:00And I just wanna say that you, last week when you did this, this is what I noticed. And then after, it started being voice notes of me being like, hey.
41:10Just thinking of you. And, you know, I just wanna say, you know, that you're amazing, and I hope you have a great day.
41:17And yesterday, when you helped me with this or in a conversation, I noticed you said this, and I just wanna make sure you know that, you know, you're so whatever whatever I noticed. But the crazy thing is is once I started doing that with the people in my life, I started to actually feel so good about myself.
41:36Mhmm. And I started to not question my intention when I go out in the world Because I think what that validated to me was, like, I am a good person, or my intentions are pure.
41:52Like, I'm just loving on my friends, on my family. And if someone on the Internet says otherwise that I'm a a shitty person or that I have bad intentions or that I'm a scammer or that all these things, like, I know from the proof in my personal relationships that that is not true.
42:16And so that's what that exercise helped me with, but I don't know if you have other thoughts of what you observed.
42:21Well, one of the first things that I saw was a difficult way to hold the world is and this is all around us.
42:32If you think of how how many camps or tribes there are that are at war with each other, like left wing, right wing, conservative, liberal, like, all that kind of stuff. Like, the heart of all the reasons we can't relate to somebody else is judgment.
42:53We pass judgment on each other as human beings, and it's really bad in the the place that we find ourselves right now.
43:01You're either like me or you're against me is kind of that. And so there's judgment on this side. And the way we can't enter into that without judging ourselves Yeah.
43:17Or others. Right? And so one of the immediate things where I said, oh, there's a there's a place in you that's underdeveloped, um, inside of you that can offer encouragement in order to see the good in the other person.
43:35And I I hope for this for, like, everyone listening that they could just enter into this one thing is to suspend judgment. And that's not saying that we don't get to have claims of what's right and wrong.
43:49Mhmm. Like, that's okay. But there's judgment on the one side, and then there's tolerance on the other where we just say, okay.
43:56No matter what you do, everything is fine. Right? But in the middle of that is this idea of mercy.
44:04Right? And so how do we enter into mercy is for you, it was encouragement because judgment was where your heart was sensitive through all the conversations that we had was the idea of critique.
44:21Right? Like and so critique is a form of judgment.
44:25And because that had been placed on you through, you know, different parts of your story and the fact that you're the the life that you have has a lot of eyeballs on it, you know, is maybe another way.
44:41Like, being you could be very sensitive to critique. Mhmm. And so as soon as there's a comment that, you know, has anything near critique, if you're in the space, it's like the air you breathe.
44:52It's just everything. If I live in judgment and critique, then I, you know, judge and critique others.
44:58And it just it's a vicious cycle. And so getting you out of that cycle was saying, hey. There's an encourager in you that as soon as you activate that, it'll quickly make you see the world differently.
45:12Yeah. And it'll make you accept things differently.
45:16And so that's what I wanted from you is to to find freedom from self judgment.
45:26Because all that we've been doing together from the beginning is like and I know you're like, okay. Love is cheesy and all that kind of stuff. But if you think of we're in relationship with ourselves, we're in relationship with others, we're in relationship with the world in general, and we're in relationship with the transcendent.
45:44You know, the the powers that be that are beyond us. Right?
45:51And so then the question of how do I choose to relate to myself, to others, to the world, and to the transcendent become really important because that's how I go through life.
46:02Mhmm. And one of the ways you were relating to yourself was you were judging yourself.
46:07Yeah. And I was like, oh, the way that you break free from that is actually to encourage others because then the part of you that is strong at the critique part for yourself Yeah.
46:21Can actually find freedom and rest. I agree with that. Because then you can encourage yourself and you can see, oh, I am good.
46:28I am made good. Yeah.
46:30So. I agree. I think it yeah.
46:33I didn't expect like, when you said you told me, like, this is the intention, but of this exercise, I was like, I don't understand how that would work. But it worked because I spent more time looking for the good in other people.
46:47Mhmm. And as a result, I saw the good within myself.
46:50Mhmm.
46:52And because I saw the good within myself, I became just more, I don't know.
47:00I think it just it just kind of reduced my anxiety about a bit because sometimes I'll walk into the rooms and I'll ask myself, will people like me?
47:11What are people thinking of me? I I want you to tell a story about when you went and you made a trip you made a trip and you were with people and how you just were able to enter into that Yeah. I went on a
47:24a trip recently, and, um, it was actually my first time meeting up with people that I had been in the industry with, like, in my previous business.
47:36And I was a bit nervous going back into those spaces because after my sabbatical, um, or during my sabbatical and after, I kinda just kept to myself a lot.
47:48Just hung out with the friends that I know, didn't really go to events or, you know, network. And so this was kind of my first catch up with some old friends from a previous industry that I had been in.
48:01And I had anxiety because sometimes when I go to these things where it's people that I know, but I'm not that close with, we have, like, an online relationship, I sometimes feel like I have to measure up in the same way.
48:15Like, I feel like, oh, this person is making half $1,000,000 a month, and so I gotta make sure I have an update that's just as impressive, or I need to make sure I also share my accolades, and I also share all the cool things that I've been doing.
48:31And so I went on this trip and I met up with a group of women who were all very, very successful, ambitious in their own right. One had just sold their company.
48:40One had just gotten, you know, a 7 figure book deal. The other is launching another startup. And usually, the old me would have gone there and been like, first of all, why am I in this room?
48:54Or, oh my gosh. I should probably work harder, and I should probably earn my way to the same level of, you know, success that they have. Um, and the old me would have been like, oh, yeah.
49:06Like, here's what I'm doing with Super Bowl, but here's how many orders we've made, and here's how much we've grown and, like, wanting to just prove Mhmm. Myself at the table and show that I deserve to be there.
49:17Mhmm. But this time around, it was different. Like, I listened, and I asked questions, and I got curious, and I was genuinely, genuinely happy for these women.
49:29And at the same time, I didn't feel the need to want to peacock and share and brag about all the things that I've done because and not to say that they were doing it on purpose.
49:43Of course not. But I just didn't feel like I needed to do that.
49:48I don't know if I'm making any sense here. And so I left feeling like, I approached that very differently than I would have years ago because I would have gone into it wanting to perform and talk about business all day and talk about my career and talk about all these things.
50:09But instead, I kind of actually left those conversations feeling like, oh, man. I wish I got to know them a little bit better.
50:16And so afterwards, I connected with each of them individually. I was like, hey. Like, you wanna just go for a one on one?
50:23Because I I just wanna I just wanna know you better. And the old me would have never done that. The old me would have only saw business opportunity or not business opportunity.
50:34But the new me is like, I just wanna get to know you better, and let's not we don't even have to talk about business. How are you doing? And so, yeah, that was very different.
50:47And I remember telling you about that. And I actually remember right after, uh, leaving that coffee chat telling Leon, I was like, I'm different.
50:56Like, that was very different for me.
50:59Can you describe the different?
51:03I was calm. I was calm. I feel like when I enter spaces like this, I I leave feeling not enough, and I leave feeling like I gotta do more.
51:19And I think that's what burned me out in the first place with my first business was I started networking, and I started going to masterminds and meeting people that on paper were technically more successful than me and feeling like, oh my gosh.
51:35There's a gap that I need to fill, So let me go home and implement whatever I learned so that I could be at the same level.
51:45And we kinda talked about money in our in our conversations where I kind of use money as a measuring stick of whether someone is higher status than me.
51:55Mhmm. And that's so weird to say that their status is among people, but that was my that was how I was holding the world when I first met you, was how much money do they have?
52:05And if they have more than me, they must be smarter than me. They must be happier than me. They must be better than me.
52:12And so this time around, I went home and, you know, I just was like, cool.
52:19I met some cool girls, and that's it. Like, I I didn't have to carry it with me.
52:25It just made me reflect back on the growth that I experienced even though I was constantly shaming myself for the last three years being like, I'm not growing enough. Like, I'm not there yet.
52:37Why haven't I built like, why haven't I, uh, built a multimillion million dollar business yet?
52:44It's been three years. You know? I did it once.
52:46I should be able to do it again. Like, I was just putting constant pressure on myself that I no longer feel as much.
52:55That sounds exhausting to carry the world that way, and I'm glad you don't carry it that way anymore.
53:01Yeah. I think looking back, like, I didn't even realize Mhmm.
53:06That there was a different way
53:08to carry the world. I think most people don't. And I think that's like it's this game that we all have agreed to play on some level where we just wanna climb this ladder, you know, to get to the top, but we don't even realize we're we're trying to climb something to get there.
53:30And then we're like, what if instead of ladders, there were just bridges where we could just, you know, instead of going, hey.
53:37Are you as high up on the ladder as me? Because then we can, like, be in relationship. But instead, just extend a bridge to people and say, hey.
53:46I'm human. You're human, and we're all broken in one way or another.
53:53And why don't we find our our connection point in the fact that we're all broken? Yeah. And then the way I'm made to love, I'll love you.
54:02And the way you're love made to love, you'll love me Mhmm. And that be the bond between us versus what can I get from you and what can you get from me?
54:11And that's, you know, that that's the conversation. Because if that's the conversation, it ends up being fairly surface. And and I'm not saying I'm anti business or anything along those lines.
54:21So if, uh, that's not the case at all. It's more, uh, I would rather be in business with people that I'm in relationship with at the heart level so that it's who I'm made to be and who they're made to be and that's a win that we get to do Because then it doesn't end up being like we're competing with each other.
54:44Then it gets to be like, oh, man, I get to bless you and you get to bless me. And if we all did that, the world would be so much better. Business would be better.
54:53And I'm convinced that there'd be even more money in the in the system even in that Yeah. Because we wouldn't focus on it. Yeah.
55:00I think also just, like,
55:03approaching relationships with the idea of, to your point, love has really changed me too because, again, like, it's like the mask falls off, and sometimes it's exhausting to always be looking up or looking down.
55:20Like, it's just nice to just look at someone straight on. Because even before, if I felt like someone was I feel like I would get intimidated by people easily if I felt like they were really pretty or really successful or really rich.
55:42And let's say they text me, you know, just a simple text. It would take me many business days to get back because I'm thinking what is the perfect text that I need to send?
55:53Or, like, how can I say this in the right way so I look like will they judge me if I, like like, the way that I text my personal friends is so different from the way that I would text someone that I perceive is like, oh my gosh? Like, I wanna impress them or like, my gosh. I feel like in some way they are more they are better than me in in some sense.
56:10And even texting someone would be exhausting for me. Mhmm. Because you're like,
56:16how am I what should I say in order how do they see the world Yes. In order for me to write the perfect thing so that they don't feel all these things or I don't do the wrong thing and you second guess it and you overthink it and all that kind stuff.
56:30Or like, if if I send this, will it sound stupid? Like
56:34and it's no wonder why I burned out, and it's no wonder why I just get so like, it to your point, it's just an exhausting way to live.
56:45Mhmm. Like, you can't create freely from a place like that.
56:50You can't you can't, um, you can't tap into, like, your heart when you carry life like that.
57:00And I think that was what I really, really struggled with was I was just always, always in my head thinking about what are other people thinking of me. Mhmm. And it's not even and and then you amplify that with having an online platform.
57:15And so if you don't know how to carry life, though, like, if if that's how you see your life like that, like, it's no wonder you burn out. It's no wonder you resent being a creator or being someone that's online.
57:28Yeah. And I know, like, for me, and this is why I wanted to have this conversation with you and why I wanted to publish it on my channel so that other people can experience what I've gone through is because I actually don't think I'm alone in this.
57:42So Yeah. I think there's a lot of people who are carrying life in a very tiring, exhausting, and burdening way.
57:51Yeah. And there is another way. Yeah.
57:53There's another way to carry it. Yeah. And I think also there's one thing that you taught me,
57:58um, that really stuck with me, and I would love for you to explain it because I'm gonna butcher it. Um, but it's something about the words you've said were fractal and, like, how God made each of us Unique.
58:15Differently and unique, and that we all have gifts.
58:20And I remember that impacting me so much because I actually didn't know what my gifts were. And it wasn't until through receiving feedback, through, you know, being in community, through affirming other people, through all the different things that I've done in the past few months where I'm getting closer to understanding this is how God made me.
58:43And I should fully go full send with the gifts that I have been given.
58:51And I think for me, having that conviction of like, this is actually what I'm really good at Mhmm.
59:02And how I'm designed to like pour into other people, it's given me more self assuredness of how I'm moving in the world, like, rather than feeling like, oh, I need to be like that person, or I need to be like this person, or I'm lacking in these areas.
59:23And so I'd love for you to explain that concept a little bit more because I'm I'm clearly struggling. Yeah.
59:29Yeah. You've seen me do this a lot, but if I think of this pen, right, was this pen an idea first, or was it a pen first?
59:40And it's An idea first. It's obvious that it was an idea. Somebody thought about this pen, and somebody thought about the purpose of this pen too.
59:47It's like it's made to write and maybe be a stylus or whatever with Ascend and but it it all those things were the idea that it was before it became into being. And
59:59what I think of you, I believe that you were also an idea first.
1:00:06And I know this is gonna, you know, expose my worldview a little bit to your audience. It's fine. I'm okay with that too.
1:00:14I think in the mind of God, you were an idea.
1:00:19You were a good idea first. You were an idea that he had in that he had for for the world in you as a gift.
1:00:31And so I believe that you were made from love, like, and that God being infinite and God being love, he can express himself in you in his image and likeness as a unique and unrepeatable gift to the world.
1:00:48So he's actually saying he's revealing a part of who he is through you. Mhmm.
1:00:54And the idea of fractal is this idea that God can, like, arrange different gifts and personalities and all that kind of stuff in unique and unrepeatable ways to express a part of him.
1:01:07So
1:01:08I remember I asked you what does fractal even mean, and I think you used the kaleidoscope.
1:01:12Yeah. Yeah. Because it's got infinite perm permutations of, like, how God can express himself.
1:01:18Yeah. Right? Like, a snowflake is made out of water.
1:01:21It's made out of the same substance, but every snowflake is unique. Mhmm. And I'm not saying you're a snowflake or whatever whatever that means, but but the idea is that I I love to go through life meeting people and going, wow.
1:01:36What was the good idea that God had in mind for Vanessa? Mhmm. And how was Vanessa made to express God who is love to the world?
1:01:46And this pen is not trying to say it's a hammer, and it's not trying to convince the world or having to even figure out what it is, mostly because it's an inanimate object.
1:02:01But a lot of times, we go through the world going, I have to define my own meaning. And I think that it's just such a burden for the modern self.
1:02:11Right? I have to define my own meaning versus saying, if I was already an idea, then the journey is about discovering the good idea that I am.
1:02:24And the good idea, part of the way to discover that is figuring out how was I made to love the world. Right? And so what we did together, have some of the things that we talked about.
1:02:36You have a whole notebook about me. Yeah. It's like the good idea that you are is you're an encourager, and you're generous, and you're a leader.
1:02:52Like, you have led people in directions, and I'm sure that your your audience would agree with me.
1:02:59You're also a a kind motivator. Mhmm. Right?
1:03:03Where it's like you're wanting the life max in some ways, and you're like, hey.
1:03:08I want people to come with me in that. Yeah. I also see, like, charisma.
1:03:16I see generosity. I also see this this element of this will be technical, but transcendental.
1:03:27You know, we talked about this, but I'll I'll break that down. A transcendental is things that show us the transcendent, which is if you think about it, it's like that's just basically God.
1:03:37Right? It's the the life that I live isn't I'm not generating that.
1:03:45I'm actually learning to see that life is bigger than me, and that's the transcendent.
1:03:54You know, like, what force is bigger than me is. Mhmm. And a lot of the ways that I feel like people encounter you as God's good idea is through this idea of beauty and how you teach and how you present yourself and how you do all of those things.
1:04:07And when we are being fully ourselves, people get to encounter God, you know, and a God who is love is what I believe.
1:04:23Yeah. And that's the gift of each and every person who's listening to this. That's the gift.
1:04:29Right? And life is more a journey of discovering that than it is about getting the billion dollars or getting the bazillion followers.
1:04:43It's not about influence or money or power. Yeah. It's a it's it's about learning how to give your life away in a way that is the most fulfilling and meaningful thing that you could ever do.
1:04:57Mhmm. And that's a lifelong journey, but when we step onto that path Yeah.
1:05:04All of a sudden it feels like life becomes profound again or maybe even profound for the first time where people are they're moved. They they feel deep within them that there is something good about life.
1:05:18Even though there's suffering and sacrifice and all those things, they're not to be avoided.
1:05:23They're actually been we're we learn to hold those in a way that makes sense. Yeah. I think I remember when we talked about this,
1:05:32about the fact that, um, God has made each of us a certain way and how, you know, the goal in life is to just understand that, like, how did God design me?
1:05:51Um, how did God make like, how do I love, you know, to to our point?
1:06:00Uh, I remember when we talked about that, I felt a sense of relief. And the reason why I felt a sense of relief was because I feel like I'm always searching, like like searching for something that I feel doesn't exist in me.
1:06:17Like, I have to manufacture it. I have to go out there and create it and build it and, you know, really just look for it.
1:06:25But when you mentioned that all of us were made in the likeness and image of God and through the love of God, it kinda made me feel like I'm taken care of.
1:06:35Like like, the operating system is already within me. Everything that I I I I need to succeed or to be happy or feel like it's already in me.
1:06:47Maybe there's some cobwebs on it, and maybe I need to dust it off, or maybe I need to, like, you know, clean it a little bit or dig a little bit to find it, but it's already in me. And I think that just brought me so much relief in knowing that I have everything I need to succeed because I'm already successful.
1:07:09And I think that was something that we talked a lot about, um, in our time together because I, again, just never felt like I had that enoughness.
1:07:19Yeah. And I was always just searching without realizing that, oh, actually, everything I need is is already here.
1:07:26I just need to spend a little bit more time maybe getting like, having that get brought up and revealed to me.
1:07:33I think it's more of, like, it's coming to me. It's revealing to it's going to get revealed to me rather than me,
1:07:39like, grinding and searching for it. Yeah. Yeah.
1:07:42And that's the only place we can find our enoughness. You know? Like, oh, I don't actually have to be anyone somebody different Yeah.
1:07:52Than myself. And that doesn't mean that what I'm saying is that somebody might say, well, there's some people who are just terrible people.
1:08:02That is that is true. Yeah. And so the journey becomes about having character because character is how we express who we are to the world.
1:08:12Mhmm. Right? Like, I can have bad character in that I can be a liar.
1:08:16I can lie to people all the time and I can manipulate. Or I can tell the truth all the time and I can encourage and I can do all those.
1:08:25So the journey of being ourselves is not do I have enough or do I not have enough? Am I enough? It becomes how do I express who I am in a way that is the most character rich?
1:08:39And that's also a journey. Right? And then you think one of the most beautiful thing things of human beings is that we can grow.
1:08:50You know? I can read a book on how to, you know, help you that will expand who I am.
1:08:59Mhmm. And so we grow our capacity in that way.
1:09:04We grow over time in in all those things. And I think that's also a gift for people is that it's like we can change.
1:09:13We can shape our character. We can return to good character. Mhmm.
1:09:17So why do you think, like because what you're saying is, you know I guess my question is to return to good character, that character, is that something that, like, let's say, god has already instilled in you?
1:09:39Like, to your point, like, you could be a bad person. Bad person. How do you become a bad person if God made all of us?
1:09:48I guess that's my question. Oh, that's a good
1:09:51and I I'm not a psychologist.
1:09:54I wanna leave all the, like, personality disorders out of that picture and just talk about it in the ordinary. So I'm not talking about, like Yeah.
1:10:02This is just, like, feeding my own personal curiosity. I'm not talking about psychopaths or all those kinds of things. Like, you know, I'm not qualified to fully articulate this in that realm.
1:10:11But I think we were made good, k, with a propensity for good to be good.
1:10:19I but there's a part of us that through fear and a whole bunch of things where we miss the mark, we choose ourselves over others.
1:10:37Like, whenever I'm trying to express my goodness, if I get hurt in that, then I'll retract. Right?
1:10:44And then I'll be like, I have to protect myself over someone else. Mhmm. And so there's, like, wounding.
1:10:51There's also just, I don't know why I always choose not to love. There's just something about being human where that feels like there's something within me that sometimes doesn't choose to express who I am in the best way.
1:11:07I I'm selfish. I don't always have the capacity not to get angry as an example.
1:11:18Everyone can everyone has their own kind of set of things, But some people choose not to fight that.
1:11:27And some people, because they're wounded so badly Yeah. Just can't see the world as safe, and they have to, like, bring everything within them. And there's no capacity for a relationship.
1:11:38There's no ability to trust anyone else. And so they can myself in that. Yeah?
1:11:44Yeah. In the second one? Yeah.
1:11:46Well, not right now. I I feel like a care bearer right now, but I can understand that.
1:11:53Yeah. I can understand it too where it's like, hey. If if I feel like financial security feels like the place where I'm not gonna get taken care of, where my needs aren't gonna get met, then I might be prone to manipulate.
1:12:08Right? I might use you for financial gain. Right?
1:12:12Yeah. And it's in that where we lack clarity inside.
1:12:18If you can imagine, like, a glass of water is, like, is it muddy or is it clear? Yeah. Right?
1:12:24And it's like every time we choose selfishness, it's like adding a little bit of dirt to the mix. Mhmm. And we all have that.
1:12:32You know? We all have parts of our story where we were hurt, where we were wounded, and those wounds are going to often prevent us from being who we're supposed to be.
1:12:47Because the gift and the wound are always they're not on opposite ends of the spectrum. They're right there on top of each other.
1:12:56So if you have a gift of generosity, you know, and free giving, which I know you do, then part of your story is when you were generous or when you were free to give, that was used against you. Yeah.
1:13:09And Putting a note for myself. Yeah. And and we all
1:13:19we all have moments of weakness where we choose not to express our character well.
1:13:26But I think the journey of life, when you can find this and if you can clarify this for yourself, if you can find the clarity, is that my goal is just to love as myself and choose the yes into the degree of character over and over and over again until it is fully won, like, it's winning within me all the time.
1:13:52And bad people, quote unquote bad people, I don't think anyone is made bad.
1:13:58Yeah. They are choosing to express themselves.
1:14:04Yet they it's kinda they're turning inward instead of turning outward. And so that's that's what I think happens.
1:14:13That's maybe oversimplified, and if you have any psychologists who are listening, there's probably way more complexity to that, but I think that that is helpful. No.
1:14:20That is helpful. Forward. This is a random question I wanted to ask while you were talking about character,
1:14:27um, and we're talking about God. But I I can see that, how the wounds kind of lay on top because I feel like for me, how I was carrying the world at one point was I'm a bad person.
1:14:43Mhmm.
1:14:47And it's kinda weird that I would even think that about myself because it's like I've never intentionally hurt anybody. But I think over time, like, back then with my first business and having so much feedback constantly at me, um, or even seeing Reddit threads about me or even my burnout.
1:15:11Like, when I when I let go of my first business, I did it quite impulsively, and it was because I just couldn't see a way out. And I was like, I'm done.
1:15:20Like, I'm so over this. Like, I just went out. And so within a week, I just shut it down, and I let go of my team.
1:15:29And I, you know, disappointed a lot of people.
1:15:33I pulled out of events that I told people that I would be there for.
1:15:39And years later, I think when I was out of the physical burnout, was still mentally burnt out and I think I was still spiritually burnt out.
1:15:48Mhmm. But once I was past my physical burnout, I started to see my situation differently.
1:15:55I started to judge my thought process and the decisions that I made. Um, and I carried a lot of shame, and I started wondering, am I a bad person? I am a bad person.
1:16:06Mhmm. People lost jobs because of me. Yeah.
1:16:08Of course. I tried to make sure everyone had a placement, but the truth of the matter is the comments would come and be like, you fired all these people. Um, you disappointed all these clients who relied on you.
1:16:20You're a flake. You can't be trusted. You know?
1:16:24And eventually, I just started believing that. Mhmm.
1:16:29And people were making commentaries about my situation online. I didn't watch all of them because, obviously, it's just not good for the soul to do that, but I genuinely started believing that I am a terrible person.
1:16:41And I also started carrying shame because I felt like, you know, I burned down my business.
1:16:53And then the first year I came back, I was telling everybody, oh, I'm free and, like, money's not everything. Just have enough and be happy with enough. And then years passed again at the second year passed, and I was like, oh, wait.
1:17:04Actually, I kinda disagree with what I said before. And I realized that there were certain things I could have done differently. And, you know, I think I just matured.
1:17:12My brain just matured over time, but I still carried a lot of shame from an embarrassment.
1:17:18I felt embarrassed. I was like, oh my gosh. Like, I cannot like, why did I burn down my business and then post a video about all the lessons I learned where some of these lessons I don't even agree with anymore?
1:17:30And I think I wasn't giving myself enough grace to grow as a person. Mhmm. And I think that's also the complicated relationship with being online, where it's almost like you're capturing who you are in that moment of time, but you as a person, personally, you're gonna be growing.
1:17:45And so sometimes it's hard for me to look back at old decisions I made, old videos I made, things that I used to teach, or things that I used to preach and not feel shame and embarrassment.
1:17:58Mhmm.
1:17:58And then I start wondering, oh my gosh. Am I even as smart as I think I am? Am I a bad person?
1:18:05But then there's also I I wrote a note because there's one thing that you mentioned in our coaching session that actually, like, has helped me a lot in terms of making better decisions or not letting the self sabotage come in.
1:18:20As you mentioned, the the the devil loves to use your strengths against you. Mhmm. So if your gift let's use me as an example.
1:18:28I am a very naturally generous person, whether that's YouTube videos and I'm just sharing what I'm learning and I'm not, like, I'm not charging people for it or my friends and family and treating them and all of these things and how I treat other people in my personal life. I'm very generous.
1:18:44But at the same time, that generosity has been used against me in a lot of ways where I've entered where I've rushed into relationships, uh, specifically coaching relationships, where maybe I'm getting the short end of the stick, but out of generosity, I'm I'm I'm I'm, you know, doing all the things or whatever.
1:19:04I won't go into the the the drama behind it. But after those experiences, I will tell myself I'm never gonna be generous like that again.
1:19:13Mhmm. I'm not gonna, you know, I'm not gonna go there.
1:19:19And so or even authenticity. Authenticity is a gift that has been reflected back to me by many people and yourself included in vulnerability.
1:19:28And then I started doing the yaps where I was super vulnerable and I was sharing, you know, a weekly progress almost or a monthly progress of the things that I was going through because authenticity is my strength. Being honest is my strength. Mhmm.
1:19:40But then it almost felt like the devil was using that against me too because now I feel like, oh, maybe I shouldn't be vulnerable anymore. I don't wanna be authentic anymore because look what it gets me. It gets me judgment.
1:19:49It gets me people in my life now suddenly feeling like they have access to all the information. Like, feeling like because I shared this aspect of my life that they can ask me questions about other aspects of my life, and now they feel, like, you know, entitled to my privacy.
1:20:06And so in a sense, when you mentioned this, I I did notice that where so many of the gifts that I have, at one point in my journey, I said, I'm never doing this again.
1:20:19Mhmm. This sucks.
1:20:22So Yeah. The we're really going for it here.
1:20:27We are. Yeah. So if you are a good idea, right, if you are a good idea in God's mind, I actually believe Satan is a very intelligent being.
1:20:39And he would have seen the good idea that you were, that I was, that everyone was. And his strategy is to try and wound that so that our gifts aren't used to give to others, but they're used to gain something for ourselves.
1:20:57Mhmm. So maybe one of the gifts that I have is I'll sit with somebody and I'll share insight into their life.
1:21:05Right? And I can use that for your benefit, but I can also use that to manipulate you to get what I want from it.
1:21:16But you most people can tell the difference between those two things, but that's using the same gift for two different ends, two different purposes. And the devil, when he looked at the good idea that you were, and because he's so intelligent, he understands who you were in God's mind, what God designed.
1:21:36You know, he looks at the architect, and he says, I know what they're trying to build. And he says, I want to I wanna get this at the foundational level Mhmm.
1:21:44So that you turn inward upon yourself instead of outward. And all of our stories are in this, and it's like with generosity for you.
1:21:53It might be that you even tried to lean on generosity to earn your friendships. You know?
1:22:00Or and it like, when we're talking about character again, it's like there's this idea and this is an old idea on how to be human, and it's called virtue.
1:22:10I'm sure you've heard about you know? Yeah. And virtue is always the middle of two vices.
1:22:17And vice is like so you can be generous as the virtue, being too generous as a vice, and being miserly or, you know, stingy or whatever is the other vice.
1:22:32And so the only way we get to carry it as virtue is when it's carried in love. Right? Where you're not being generous so that you can get something back in friendship or whatever.
1:22:43It's when love is the only way for us to actually, like, inhabit character. And the devil went after the ways that you were made to love and tried to do that.
1:22:57It's right on top of each other to the point where as soon as somebody starts sharing their story with me, I can almost immediately go, oh, there's the gift. There's gonna be the wound.
1:23:07It's gonna be something to that. It's it almost feels like a party trick at this point. Yeah.
1:23:13But it has become so obvious that that is the case. Yeah. At some whether you believe in the devil or not, at some point, if you just sit with yourself and go, what are my gifts?
1:23:25And then look at your story, you know, from the day you were born, maybe even sometimes before you were born, how something or someone or some force has gone after you not becoming the loving expression of your gifts.
1:23:42Yeah. That I
1:23:44every time I sit down with somebody, that's what ends up happening. Well, when I met you, I was like, I think I might just not do YouTube anymore. I think I'm I'm done with it.
1:23:54Like, I don't know what direction I'm lead like, I don't know what I'm doing with this channel. I think before, I was so clear because I had a structure.
1:24:03I had a funnel. Mhmm. You know?
1:24:05I'm gonna sell social media courses, so every video is going to teach social media, which is gonna link back to social media. And then when I came back, I didn't really have a funnel anymore.
1:24:18And so I decided, you know what? Let me just be myself and, you know, share.
1:24:24But then that also didn't feel good either because I'm like, I feel like every week is just a random topic, and I don't really know where this is leading and connecting to. And frankly, I feel like I'm getting the short end of the stick because I feel like I'm putting my heart and soul out here.
1:24:42And at the same time, I'm doing it for free. And I also get criticized.
1:24:49So I'm not getting paid and I'm getting criticized. Where what's in it for me? Mhmm.
1:24:54Why? Like, this pain is not worth it anymore. Mhmm.
1:24:57And so I was like, you know what? Maybe I'll just focus on Superboba full time and just forget about this YouTube thing. And it was such a shame because the channel was so close to a million subscribers, and we recently hit a million subscribers, which is crazy.
1:25:13But back to the topic of, like, the devil wanting to tear down the things that you've built.
1:25:21I think it was you that reminded me, like, how special it is to have grown this platform.
1:25:28Like, sometimes it doesn't clock me. Have your plaque. Yeah.
1:25:31We can celebrate that. We can celebrate it, but we hit a million subscribers.
1:25:35Nice. Show the camera. Which
1:25:38is so cool. Um, but sometimes I don't realize as much as, like, I was telling because so, basically, where I was at was I was telling myself I'm a bad person.
1:25:51I don't deserve my success. It was a fluke, or I made bad decisions, and how could anyone trust me again?
1:26:00Or I led people down the wrong path, and I realized that it was not the right path. But I'm still trying to figure out the path that I'm going on. And at the same time, I felt the weight and the pressure of being perceived as a leader.
1:26:12So I felt like, how can I it was like the blind leading the blind? Like, how can I lead people if I don't even know where I'm leading myself?
1:26:20Mhmm. And so I almost felt like, you know what? Maybe I should just, like, exit.
1:26:25Just get just be just leave the game. I don't have a voice here. Like, I don't listen to me.
1:26:31I don't even know what's going on. And so I was very close to giving up on this channel.
1:26:35Mhmm.
1:26:37And it wasn't until, I think, you just reminded me, like, how many people followed me.
1:26:48Like, this platform, it's it's huge. Like, sometimes I don't even it doesn't even register to me.
1:26:54And I think before, I would think, like, oh, people only follow me because I gave tips or people only followed me because I whatever. Um, but you reminded me that people a lot of people follow me for me.
1:27:06Mhmm.
1:27:07And so when I hit a million subscribers, it was almost like a reset button was hit for me because of so many of the things that I've learned from you and also developing and deepening my relationship with God.
1:27:28Like, I think before, I would always think that everything that I've achieved in my life is because I did it, and I had to earn it, and I had to work really hard for it, and it's a grind. And, you know, I was, like, basically, like, white knuckling everything.
1:27:44Mhmm. And it wasn't until I realized, like, no. Actually, God gifted these things to me.
1:27:53God, like, literally gave them to me and was like, hey. Take care of this. Mhmm.
1:27:58And it kinda clocked to me that I was not taking care of the things that God had given me. And I was also also, like, in some sense being hyper attached to the material things that I have as well.
1:28:13Mhmm. And that was, a big thing for me, like finances, you know, following, all these things.
1:28:19Like, was, this is mine. And who am I without these things? If if I lose all my money or if my my platform shuts down or all these things, like, who am I without this?
1:28:32And it wasn't until I realized like, oh, wait. Actually, this is God's.
1:28:38This isn't mine. This is God's. He he gifted it to me, but he can also take it away.
1:28:42And that's okay because there is a path for me, and I have to trust in that.
1:28:48So regardless if it's YouTube or something else, like, I'm gonna be just okay. And at the same time, while I still have this platform, while I still have this, I might as well love it to the best ability that I can. Mhmm.
1:29:01And a lot of that was thanks to the, like, the conversations we've had around love. So, yeah, it's been Yeah.
1:29:11It's been cool. I don't know. I I don't wanna be this to be a monologue, but you No.
1:29:15Love is know what you think. Love is the best. Love is the best.
1:29:19And it's so easy to forget that life is a gift, and it's actually fragile.
1:29:31Like, you and I could drive home today and be hit by you know, be in a car accident, and it's over. You know?
1:29:38And so how do we take care of the things that are ours for the time that we're asked to take care of them?
1:29:46And and so there's a tricky tension to hold where having this is a gift, and you've also had to participate with that gift.
1:29:59It's not like you just opened your YouTube account one day and there was a million followers. Like, there's a journey that you've that you've done that.
1:30:07And so it it introduces this concept of, like, grace. You know?
1:30:13Like and grace is it's opposed to earning, like but it's not opposed to effort.
1:30:22And so we can honor the efforts that we put in and say, oh, like, you you worked. You you poured your energy. You said yes to things.
1:30:29You did things when you were tired and angry and, you know, like, all those kinds of things in order to keep moving forward.
1:30:38But, ultimately, the gift that we have, like, all the gifts all the the literal gifts that you have and, you know, the who you are and what you're talented at, and you didn't do anything to get those either.
1:30:53Right? Like, you and I could could have been born quite differently.
1:30:58Right? And so how do we steward what we have as a gift?
1:31:04And I just love that you're moving from what got you from zero to a million followers on or subs on YouTube. I love the idea of, like, we and we started talking, maybe we can, you know, start to share where what's in your heart for, okay.
1:31:21Like, what do I end up sharing with people now? So there was one journey of your life that led you to a million subs, but now you're carrying it quite differently to go from a million to however many you're supposed to have.
1:31:34Yeah. And that feels like the right way to hold it, and you're detached.
1:31:40You know? If it does go away, that's okay. You know?
1:31:42Yeah. The the Vanessa that'll be left at the end of that isn't you're not a million sub person.
1:31:51That's not who you are. That's just something that you do. Yeah.
1:31:55So where do you wanna go from here with the audience that you've been entrusted to to to love into?
1:32:05There was one concept you briefly mentioned in our conversation that I've held on to, and that was being a bridge for people rather than being a ladder. And, um, I remember when I was talking to you basically about how I felt about being a creator and some of the resentment that I felt initially, um, a lot of it was I was just tired of disappointing people.
1:32:37Like, I just felt like whatever I did was just never enough. There would always be someone who said you didn't do this or you missed the mark on that or you said that I would have this, and how come I don't have it yet?
1:32:51And you reflected back to me, and it made a lot of sense, was that I was approaching my content at the time for many years as a ladder. Like, hey.
1:33:00Look at me. I'm up here. I'm Vanessa Lau.
1:33:02Look at look at how much money I've made. Look at how successful my businesses are. If you follow these things that I share, you can get there too because you're making these mistakes that's keeping you stuck.
1:33:15And so a lot of my, um, content, I didn't even realize it was like this until you, like, painted it for me because I was like, why do people just, like like, why is my relationship with my audience like this? Like, why does it feel so transactional?
1:33:29Why does it feel so exhausting? And I know, like and I really hope this doesn't come across the wrong way, but I know for many creators, after doing this for many years and all the parasocial relationships that start to develop, I don't know any creator who hasn't said that of, like, the audience that I used to love, I don't love anymore.
1:33:47And it's not even because they did anything. It's because my heart has hardened. Like, I am wounded, and I don't wanna be generous anymore or whatnot.
1:33:58But going back to the bridge versus ladder, the ladder concept is I was treating it as a ladder. And so it's no wonder why people would react that way if they didn't get a certain result or if they watched my videos and felt like it was almost like, I'm not good enough, and I need to get to where Vanessa's at.
1:34:18Mhmm. And I think that's why a lot of people look up to me because they see me as an inspiration. But at the same time, they're seeing me as an inspiration while also seeing them as someone who's lacking something.
1:34:30And they're missing something that they put responsibility on me to give them so that they can get to where I'm at. Mhmm.
1:34:37But that's also because of me and the way that I'm carrying my videos and maybe the way that I'm approaching my life because that's how it's a reflection of how I feel. I'm making these mistakes. I'm not there yet.
1:34:50Here are some things that here's the method, the framework, the things that I need to do to get there, and then I will be loved, and then I will be accepted. The way that I saw myself and saw life was basically a ladder as well. And that reflected in my content.
1:35:02It reflected in my videos. And I didn't realize until, you know, we we started having conversations around it. And I remember you calling it out to me, and I was like, but how else would I be how else would I be, you know, how can I lead people?
1:35:16I didn't understand how to lead people without being the ladder. Mhmm. How do I bring people from point a to point b without doing that while also being perceived as a leader, while also being perceived as someone that's supposed to help people?
1:35:29And then you mentioned, well, it's actually a bridge. It's meeting people where they're at, letting them know that it's okay and that they're enough already, and then showing them a different way of doing things and inviting them into it rather than saying, if you don't do this, then this bad consequence will happen.
1:35:47Or if you don't do this, then you are a lazy piece of and so, you know, do this and follow what I'm saying. And so even though right now as we speak, I don't have, like, full, like, this is what my channel's gonna be about and, like, this is the topics that I'm gonna share, I know that the way I'm gonna approach it is different.
1:36:08Mhmm.
1:36:08Like, I want to be able to still teach because through me being in conversation with other people, with you, me putting myself back out there and, like, going to events and having feedback reaffirmed to me that I am actually a really great teacher.
1:36:26So I still want to be teaching. And at the same time, I'm honest and I'm authentic.
1:36:33And so for my channel, I really want people to see that as well and maybe bringing people into how I live my life. I think for so long, I've been so used to just teaching and preaching, but now moving into being a bridge for people, I would rather just show them how I'm living.
1:36:50And so I don't have to say, you should do this. You gotta do that. It's more of like, here's how I'm doing things.
1:36:56Here's, like, you know, how I'm feeling. Here's how I'm operating my business. Here's how I'm doing content, and these are the results that I've gotten, and it's been amazing.
1:37:05Here's a different way that I've been doing things. And whether someone decides they wanna do that or not, that's on them. But I don't want to say, if you don't do this, then you're gonna stay stuck forever.
1:37:17So Yeah. It feels like you're the vibe. Yeah.
1:37:20The energy that I wanna bring into my channel. And, also, to your point, sorry, like, for me, hitting a million is already so and, like, amazing and enough.
1:37:33And I think before, I would constantly think how can I grow this channel? How can I how can I get the next million?
1:37:39How can I get the next, like, 10,000 followers, 20,000 followers, or whatever? But on the topic of, like, God gifted to God God gifted this to me, and I wanna steward it well, to me, it just means taking care of the people that I already have. Mhmm.
1:37:54And so feeling less attached to, like, am I going to convert subscribers with this? Am I gonna, like is this conversation gonna go viral? It's like, that's not really the goal anymore.
1:38:06I just want to share I just want people to come to my channel and feel loved, and that could be one person.
1:38:12And I think that's what's different right now as I enter this new chapter since hitting a million than how I was operating before.
1:38:20Yeah. We're not gaming the algorithm anymore. We're not doing this.
1:38:23We're just gonna do it so that people feel loved and cared for Yeah. In the way that you were made to be loved and cared for. Yeah.
1:38:32I'll I'll take a little bit of a risk here, but I'm very proud of you, you know, in the work and the journey that you've said yes to over the last three months, sure, together four months, whatever that is, but also over the last several years. You know?
1:38:48It's been a gift to be able to connect a few dots for you in it. Mhmm.
1:38:54But I am very proud of who you are and what you're trying to do and that you're you're not just saying those last few sentences.
1:39:03Like, I feel it in you that you're like, hey. This is a different way to move forward. Yeah.
1:39:09And, yeah, you're living for others.
1:39:13Yeah. Thank you. And, you know, I again, I I wanted us to have this conversation because there are so many things that in our time together, um, and the conversations that we've had that I've never had with anyone else.
1:39:32And how we met was so unconventional in a sense where, um, you actually I think you do, like, strategic consulting for nonprofit organizations as your, you know That's my main your job.
1:39:48Like, we're at your office right now. And so for us to kinda find each other through Kevin, through all of that, you're just different from a lot of the coaches that I've had before.
1:39:59A lot of the mentors I've had are, like, deep in the online space. Yeah. I haven't posted on social media, dog.
1:40:07I I literally haven't posted anything in ten years. I was like, hey. Like, when I post this video, like, what am I gonna voodoo what do I where do I send people if they wanna get to know you better?
1:40:17Um, but, yeah, like, I wanted us to have this conversation because I feel like so much of what I learned from you and from God, I just don't see talked online often.
1:40:33And I think the position that I was in, although I feel like, oh, it's so unique and, you know, it's just me that goes through it, there's actually a lot of people that follow me that feel the same sentiment of how come I'm I'm still searching and and I still haven't found it yet and not realizing that everything that they need to succeed is actually within them.
1:40:59And if you actually see life from a place of love and no longer from a place of I need to earn my way to love, I need to earn my way to success, I need to earn and, like, work you know, how many more, just how many more, uh, amazing conversations would be happening?
1:41:23Like, I think a lot of people that follow me, they they're into making content and posting online, and sometimes we feel like we need to perform and say what everyone else is saying or feel like we need to, like, manufacture value. And I'm just thinking about how much the world could change if people just showed up as themselves and also feel confidence that who they are is already enough because that's just how God made them.
1:41:49Well, I'm honored that we get to share what we've been doing together, you know, over the period of time, and you've actually changed me too.
1:42:00Really? I think that's helpful. Okay.
1:42:02I've always been accompanying people. You know, is the word.
1:42:07I've been walking with people and helping them see life differently. But Kevin saw, he's like, what you do in all these other places, you should be doing for people like Vanessa.
1:42:18And so I have a few other people who I don't it's not really coaching. It's like accompaniment mentors.
1:42:25Like, it's kind of, you know, it breaks the mold of what coaching would be because I'm I'm coming with different things in there. But I actually found so much life in in being able to walk with you in that that I am making more space for that in in my week and in my doing that.
1:42:44So I don't have a ton. You know? Maybe have, like, five five people at once.
1:42:49That's about my capacity, but we'll put a link in that if anyone is interested in doing that. That would be great.
1:42:56Mhmm. But
1:42:57Wow. I'm happy. Um, thank you for agreeing to be in front of all these millions of people.
1:43:06And, yeah, it's been such a blessing to, like, get to work together, and I really hope that, yeah, people walk away from this conversation and just have a different way of holding life and how they see their work and themselves. So thank you, Jason.
1:43:20Me too. Thanks for having me on.
The Hook

The bait, then the rug-pull.

The video opens on a confession, not a victory lap: a creator one million subscribers deep admits that the celebration everyone expected never came, and that the three years after she walked away from a seven-figure business were lonelier than the burnout that ended it.

Frameworks

Named ideas worth stealing.

17:32acronym

RIM — Relationship, Identity, Mission

  1. Relationship comes first
  2. Identity is received from it
  3. Mission flows out of identity

Reverses the default founder order. Instead of chasing a mission to figure out who you are, you receive identity through people who actually know you, and mission follows. Running it backwards hands your sense of self to whatever the audience hands back.

Steal forany founder rebuilding after a pivot, or anyone whose self-worth is wired to public metrics
15:00concept

Open wounds vs. scars

Share hardship you have processed and gained distance from (a scar), not pain you are still inside of (an open wound). Vulnerability from a scar is durable; from an open wound, every reaction lands on raw tissue.

Steal fordeciding what personal story is safe to publish and when
38:40concept

The encouragement exercise

Concrete homework: text or voice-note people in your real life specific things you admire about them. Practicing encouragement of others retrains the same muscle that runs self-judgment, so seeing good in others lets you see it in yourself.

Steal foranyone whose default inner voice is critical of themselves
57:54concept

You are a good idea (the fractal)

You existed as an idea before you existed as a person, a unique unrepeatable expression, like a snowflake of the same water as every other. Framed explicitly as God-as-love. The structural takeaway: worth is built in, so stop manufacturing a self you already have.

Steal forthe not-enoughness spiral of comparing yourself to more successful peers
1:13:08concept

Gift and wound sit on top of each other

Your deepest wound lands precisely on your greatest gift, which is why the trait that made you keeps getting used against you and why you keep vowing to stop using it. Only carrying the gift in love keeps it from curdling into self-protection.

Steal forunderstanding why your strengths feel dangerous after they've been punished
1:32:05concept

Ladder vs. bridge

A ladder positions you above your audience so they must climb to you, making them feel lacking and the relationship transactional. A bridge meets them where they are, affirms they are enough, shows how you live, and invites rather than threatens.

Steal forreframing how you talk to an audience or a team without the you're-behind pressure
CTA Breakdown

How they asked for the click.

VERBAL ASK
1:39:00link
“We'll put a link in if anyone is interested in doing that. That would be great.”

The only pitch in 103 minutes is a soft, almost reluctant offer of Jason's small accompaniment-mentor practice (he caps it at about five people). Notably it's Vanessa promoting her mentor, not selling anything of her own; there is no course, no funnel, no subscribe-hard-sell despite the 1M milestone.

MENTIONED ON CAMERA
1:39:00linkJason Jensen (mentor) ↗
1:39:00productGlass Canvas Consulting ↗
1:39:00productGlass Canvas Ministries ↗
1:39:00channelMy Buddy Pete (podcast) ↗
04:50productSuperboba (superfood milk tea business) ↗
FROM THE DESCRIPTION
PRIMARY CTAWhere the creator wants you to go next.
AFFILIATECommission earned if you click.
OTHER LINKSAlso linked in the description.
Storyboard

Visual structure at a glance.

teaser open
hookteaser open00:00
solo reflection
valuesolo reflection05:48
RIM framework
valueRIM framework17:34
encouragement work
valueencouragement work38:40
gifts and wounds
valuegifts and wounds1:22:03
ladder to bridge
valueladder to bridge1:29:11
closing
ctaclosing1:40:00
Frame Gallery

Visual moments.

teaser open00:00Frame at 01:22 from I burned down my 7-figure business and still felt lost01:22Frame at 02:40 from I burned down my 7-figure business and still felt lost02:40Frame at 04:44 from I burned down my 7-figure business and still felt lost04:44solo reflection05:48Frame at 06:35 from I burned down my 7-figure business and still felt lost06:35
teaser open00:00Frame at 01:22 from I burned down my 7-figure business and still felt lost01:22Frame at 02:40 from I burned down my 7-figure business and still felt lost02:40Frame at 04:44 from I burned down my 7-figure business and still felt lost04:44solo reflection05:48Frame at 06:35 from I burned down my 7-figure business and still felt lost06:35Frame at 08:22 from I burned down my 7-figure business and still felt lost08:22Frame at 09:41 from I burned down my 7-figure business and still felt lost09:41Frame at 10:53 from I burned down my 7-figure business and still felt lost10:53Frame at 11:43 from I burned down my 7-figure business and still felt lost11:43Frame at 13:45 from I burned down my 7-figure business and still felt lost13:45Frame at 14:19 from I burned down my 7-figure business and still felt lost14:19Frame at 16:09 from I burned down my 7-figure business and still felt lost16:09RIM framework17:34Frame at 18:44 from I burned down my 7-figure business and still felt lost18:44Frame at 20:01 from I burned down my 7-figure business and still felt lost20:01Frame at 20:56 from I burned down my 7-figure business and still felt lost20:56Frame at 22:36 from I burned down my 7-figure business and still felt lost22:36Frame at 23:28 from I burned down my 7-figure business and still felt lost23:28Frame at 24:44 from I burned down my 7-figure business and still felt lost24:44Frame at 26:29 from I burned down my 7-figure business and still felt lost26:29Frame at 27:47 from I burned down my 7-figure business and still felt lost27:47Frame at 29:12 from I burned down my 7-figure business and still felt lost29:12Frame at 30:45 from I burned down my 7-figure business and still felt lost30:45Frame at 31:06 from I burned down my 7-figure business and still felt lost31:06Frame at 32:57 from I burned down my 7-figure business and still felt lost32:57Frame at 34:14 from I burned down my 7-figure business and still felt lost34:14Frame at 35:47 from I burned down my 7-figure business and still felt lost35:47Frame at 36:49 from I burned down my 7-figure business and still felt lost36:49encouragement work38:40Frame at 39:24 from I burned down my 7-figure business and still felt lost39:24Frame at 40:42 from I burned down my 7-figure business and still felt lost40:42Frame at 42:20 from I burned down my 7-figure business and still felt lost42:20Frame at 43:17 from I burned down my 7-figure business and still felt lost43:17Frame at 44:35 from I burned down my 7-figure business and still felt lost44:35Frame at 45:52 from I burned down my 7-figure business and still felt lost45:52Frame at 46:31 from I burned down my 7-figure business and still felt lost46:31Frame at 48:27 from I burned down my 7-figure business and still felt lost48:27Frame at 49:45 from I burned down my 7-figure business and still felt lost49:45Frame at 50:59 from I burned down my 7-figure business and still felt lost50:59Frame at 52:21 from I burned down my 7-figure business and still felt lost52:21Frame at 53:02 from I burned down my 7-figure business and still felt lost53:02Frame at 55:00 from I burned down my 7-figure business and still felt lost55:00Frame at 56:15 from I burned down my 7-figure business and still felt lost56:15Frame at 57:41 from I burned down my 7-figure business and still felt lost57:41Frame at 58:47 from I burned down my 7-figure business and still felt lost58:47Frame at 59:29 from I burned down my 7-figure business and still felt lost59:29Frame at 61:23 from I burned down my 7-figure business and still felt lost61:23Frame at 62:40 from I burned down my 7-figure business and still felt lost62:40Frame at 64:07 from I burned down my 7-figure business and still felt lost64:07Frame at 65:29 from I burned down my 7-figure business and still felt lost65:29Frame at 66:33 from I burned down my 7-figure business and still felt lost66:33Frame at 67:43 from I burned down my 7-figure business and still felt lost67:43Frame at 69:17 from I burned down my 7-figure business and still felt lost69:17Frame at 69:50 from I burned down my 7-figure business and still felt lost69:50Frame at 71:45 from I burned down my 7-figure business and still felt lost71:45Frame at 73:00 from I burned down my 7-figure business and still felt lost73:00Frame at 74:22 from I burned down my 7-figure business and still felt lost74:22Frame at 75:35 from I burned down my 7-figure business and still felt lost75:35Frame at 76:53 from I burned down my 7-figure business and still felt lost76:53Frame at 78:11 from I burned down my 7-figure business and still felt lost78:11Frame at 79:28 from I burned down my 7-figure business and still felt lost79:28Frame at 80:24 from I burned down my 7-figure business and still felt lost80:24gifts and wounds82:03Frame at 83:48 from I burned down my 7-figure business and still felt lost83:48Frame at 84:38 from I burned down my 7-figure business and still felt lost84:38Frame at 85:56 from I burned down my 7-figure business and still felt lost85:56Frame at 87:13 from I burned down my 7-figure business and still felt lost87:13Frame at 88:31 from I burned down my 7-figure business and still felt lost88:31ladder to bridge89:11Frame at 91:06 from I burned down my 7-figure business and still felt lost91:06Frame at 92:05 from I burned down my 7-figure business and still felt lost92:05Frame at 93:41 from I burned down my 7-figure business and still felt lost93:41Frame at 94:59 from I burned down my 7-figure business and still felt lost94:59Frame at 96:16 from I burned down my 7-figure business and still felt lost96:16Frame at 97:34 from I burned down my 7-figure business and still felt lost97:34Frame at 98:20 from I burned down my 7-figure business and still felt lost98:20closing100:00Frame at 101:50 from I burned down my 7-figure business and still felt lost101:50Frame at 102:57 from I burned down my 7-figure business and still felt lost102:57
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