09:28Ed Lawrence · Talking Head
Unfortunately, YouTube Really Is This Simple
YouTube isn't a content platform, it's a mirror, and the channels that grow are the ones that figure out exactly whose reflection they're showing.
September 8thThe argument in one line.
Podcast guesting works at any follower count because hosts are starved for good guests, not blocked by fame, and a five-step pitch-prep-promote system turns appearances into views, email signups, and sales.
Read if. Skip if.
READ IF YOU ARE…
- A creator, coach, or consultant with little to no following who wants a shortcut to reach, email signups, and sales.
- Someone already making content (videos, posts, a site) who wants a repeatable system to actually get booked on podcasts.
- Anyone with a niche offer who wants warm introductions into an audience that's already primed to buy.
SKIP IF…
- You want a one-and-done shortcut; this requires pitching, listening to episodes, and prepping before any sales show up.
- You have zero content or credibility to point to; the pitch leans on sample content to prove you're worth booking.
The full version, fast.
Ed Lawrence argues podcast guesting beats social media and ads for growing a following, because it's gatekept by guest quality, not fame; most shows outside the top tier are actually short on good guests. He lays out a five-step system: find the niche podcast where your exact audience already listens, vet the show's quality before applying, pitch with a short personalized video instead of a cold email, request topics in advance so you can prepare stories and simple frameworks instead of long lists, then promote every episode like it's your own content. Treating each appearance as a bid to become the host's best episode is what gets noticed by bigger shows later.
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00:00 – 00:29
01 · Cold open: the hidden growth channel
Claims podcasts beat social media, ads, and more YouTube videos for growing a following and making sales, and teases the five-step "podcast system."
00:29 – 01:49
02 · Proof: podcasts without a following
Names shows he got on with almost no views or following, and sets up the "podcast pyramid" idea that fame isn't the real gate.
01:49 – 02:30
03 · What podcasts actually want
Argues most hosts are guest-starved, not fame-gated, which means anyone with something valuable to share already qualifies.
02:30 – 05:35
04 · Why podcast guesting is worth your time
Four core reasons: stolen reach, direct sales, email list growth, high-value networking, free clip promotion, and the YouTube name-association effect.
05:35 – 07:34
05 · Step 1-2: Find and vet the right show
Target the biggest podcast in your specific niche rather than the biggest podcast overall, then screen episode quality before applying.
07:34 – 09:10
06 · Step 3: The pitch
Find the host's email, write a subject line built to earn an open, and send a short personalized video pitch styled like a clickable thumbnail.
09:10 – 11:08
07 · Step 4: Request topics and prepare with stories
Ask for the episode topics in advance, then prepare using specific stories and simple frameworks instead of long lists.
11:08 – 12:41
08 · Step 5: Promote every episode, then repeat upward
Treat each appearance like a bid to become the host's best episode, promote it like owned content, and use it as proof to get booked on bigger shows.
Lines worth screenshotting.
- Podcasts are a pyramid: the biggest shows are flooded with applicants, but mid-size niche shows are often struggling to find any guests at all.
- A podcast host who offers to pay people just to introduce him to guests proves the real gatekeeper isn't fame, it's guest quality.
- The audience for a niche podcast is often already the exact buyer for your product, which is why a single appearance can outsell weeks of normal marketing.
- A guest who gives value with zero pitch inside the episode can still sell out a cohort, because listeners reference the appearance itself as the reason they bought.
- A podcast appearance doubles as networking: one host who became a client led to repeat promotion to that host's own audience.
- When a podcast clips an episode and promotes it, a creator with almost no following can gain thousands of new social followers overnight.
- YouTube can associate a creator's name from podcast mentions with their own channel, so appearing on enough shows pushes that creator's content to new viewers automatically.
- The best podcasts to target aren't the biggest ones, they're the biggest ones in your specific niche, where every listener is already a potential buyer.
- Listening to a show before pitching it changes the pitch itself, because familiarity with the host's style and questions comes through in the application.
- New podcasts and low-quality shows are worth skipping, because a show that quits means the episode gets zero compounding listens for years.
- A short personalized video pitch, built like a thumbnail with the host's name and a play button, outperforms a generic cold email because it does the work of standing out before it's even opened.
- Asking for the episode topics in advance and getting a yes is itself a filter: hosts who care about quality will always share questions ahead of time.
- Turning answers into stories instead of long numbered lists makes content memorable, the same way nobody remembers a 10-step furniture-assembly sequence.
- Treating every single podcast appearance like it needs to become the top-performing episode on that host's channel is what gets a guest invited onto bigger and bigger shows.
- Bigger podcasts often recruit guests by scouting smaller shows for people who already performed well, so a strong appearance on a small podcast can lead directly to an invite from a massive one.
A Five-Step System For Podcast Guesting
WHAT TO LEARN
Podcast guesting works regardless of audience size because hosts are starved for good guests, not blocked by fame, and a repeatable pitch-prep-promote system turns appearances into views, sales, and bigger invitations.
01Cold open: the hidden growth channel
- Podcast guesting can out-leverage more social media posts, paid ads, or additional YouTube videos for the same growth goal.
- The method is explicitly framed as usable by almost any expert, not just established names.
02Proof: podcasts without a following
- Three real examples (The Agents of Change, a niche video-marketing podcast, Social Media Examiner) were booked while the guest had almost no views or following at all.
- Well-known interview shows like Diary of a CEO and Chris Williamson's podcast regularly book guests who don't have giant followings either, because follower count isn't the host's filter.
03What podcasts actually want
- Podcasts form a pyramid: the top tier is flooded with applicants, but most shows sit lower in the pyramid and are short on good guests.
- A real host offered to pay people just to introduce him to guests, the opposite of a fame-gated industry.
- If you have something valuable to share, you already qualify as a candidate for most shows; the barrier is a system to get noticed, not fame.
04Why podcast guesting is worth your time
- Podcast guesting "steals" years of someone else's audience-building in a single appearance, instead of growing a following from zero.
- One appearance with zero in-episode pitch still sold out a cohort because the host's audience was already the exact buyer; buyers referenced the podcast by name.
- A podcast appearance builds a durable relationship with the host, which can turn into unexpected opportunities, including a guest becoming a client and repeat promotion to that host's own audience.
- When a host clips and promotes an episode, a guest with little to no following can gain thousands of social followers almost overnight, plus reusable long-form content for their own channel.
- Enough podcast mentions let platforms like YouTube associate a name across shows, pushing a guest's own channel content to new viewers who first found them elsewhere.
05Step 1-2: Find and vet the right show
- Don't aim for the biggest shows first: target the biggest podcast within your specific niche, where the entire audience already matches your buyer.
- Use your own podcast-listening habits, or a quick AI or Google search, as the starting list, since familiarity with a show's host and format improves the pitch itself.
- Vet quality before pitching: listen to a few episodes and rule out low-effort shows, brand-new podcasts, and shows with a history of quitting, since those won't compound views over time.
06Step 3: The pitch
- Find the host's email, usually on the show's site or a guest sign-up form, rather than relying on social DMs.
- Write a subject line built to earn an open before competing applications bury it, since hosts often field more pitches than they can read.
- Replace a cold email with a short, personalized video styled like a clickable thumbnail: the host's name, a play button, specific episode references, a suggested angle, and sample content.
- Do as much of the host's work for them as possible, suggesting topics and proof of competence, so saying yes takes minimal effort.
07Step 4: Request topics and prepare with stories
- Always ask for the planned topics in advance; a host who cares about the show's quality will say yes, and a no is itself useful information about the show.
- Prepare using specific stories, something personally lived through or a client's experience, rather than long lists, because listeners can't retain a 10-step sequence any better than IKEA assembly steps.
- Pair stories with simple, 2-3 item frameworks instead of exhaustive lists, which raises perceived credibility and makes the episode more shareable.
08Step 5: Promote every episode, then repeat upward
- Treat every appearance as a bid to become the single best-performing episode on that host's channel, not just a good one.
- Promote every episode like owned content: email it to your list, post it to your own community, and dedicate a section of your channel to podcast appearances.
- Bigger shows scout smaller podcasts for guests who already performed well, so a standout small-show episode can become the reason a much larger podcast reaches out directly.
- As your own following grows from running this loop, podcasts start reaching out first, which is the compounding payoff of the system.
Terms worth knowing.
- Podcast pyramid
- The idea that podcasts are tiered by size, with a small number of massive shows flooded with applicants and a much larger number of smaller, niche shows that are often short on good guests.
- Pitch video
- A short, personalized video message sent to a podcast host in place of a cold email, styled like a clickable video thumbnail with the host's name and a play button.
Things they pointed at.
00:29channelThe Agents of Change
00:50channelSocial Media Examiner
01:00channelDiary of a CEO (Steven Bartlett)
01:00channelChris Williamson's podcast
01:08channelJoe Rogan
02:45channelJay Klaus's podcast
03:16channelJames Smith's fitness podcast
11:23channelCharisma on Command (Charlie Johnson)
Lines you could clip.
00:00
“The easiest way to grow a following and make sales online isn't social media. It's not ads.”
02:29
“Growing your own following is really hard... but podcasts are powerful because you steal the time someone else spent growing an audience.”
05:09
“People in my audience started messaging me saying, Ed, you are absolutely everywhere.”
11:08
“My goal every single time I go on a show is to become the top performing episode on the channel. Not just a good episode, one of the best.”
Word for word.
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metaphoranalogystory
The easiest way to grow a following and make sales online isn't social media. It's not ads. It's not making more YouTube videos.
It's the thing all of the biggest personal brands in the world harness on a regular basis to grow their following with a fraction of the work. And almost any expert can use this exact same system too, no matter how big or small your following is. So in this video, I'm going to show you how to steal other people's views, generate sales, emails, and views using the podcast system.
I use this same system to generate millions of views, and I kind of regret not using it more often. But before you think there is no way, a big podcast is going to have you on their show.
You're not famous enough. Do not write this off. It works for anyone.
So let me show you why. So years ago, I got onto a podcast called The Agents of Change. It's a very well -known marketing podcast.
It's been going for years. I also got on the biggest podcast in my own video marketing niche. And I got on Social Media Examiner, a massive publication, when I had almost no views or following at all.
The thing is, if you look into this, you will notice the people who get on A Diary of a CEO or Chris Williamson's podcast often don't have giant followings either, because that is not what top podcasts care about. But also, what you need to realise is, . At the very top, you've got the biggest podcasts getting all of the views like Joe Rogan, and then you've got Diary of a CEO, and they have thousands of people probably trying to get on there every single week.
Below that, you have the next group of podcasters that have big followings like Chris Williamson, and they're getting tons of views and listens as well, and they will have no problem at all getting guests. But drop down. a couple of levels in the pyramid to smaller shows in smaller niches that don't get millions of listens.
And the average podcast host isn't drowning in applications. They're actually struggling to find good guests. In fact, I saw a podcast host recently offered to pay people to introduce him to guests that he wanted on his show.
So the whole idea that podcasts are gate -kept by fame is wrong. What podcasts want is quality content and quality guests, and there generally aren't that many out there, meaning a lot of podcast hosts are very open to application. Which means if you've got something valuable to share, you are already a potential candidate for pretty much any show you want to get on.
You just need a system to get their attention and make them say yes. And that's exactly what I'm going to walk you through in a minute. So before I get into the system, I really need to make sure that you actually understand why this is a strategy that is worth a lot of your time.
Potentially more time than making new videos for your YouTube channel. And there's a few reasons. The first...
is that growing your own following is really hard. It is very time consuming and traction can feel painfully slight, but podcasts are powerful because you , meaning you can steal their reach and the time they took to build it. by hopping on their show and then giving a ton of value.
And then that can get a ton of views that could have taken you years to generate by yourself. The second is sales. So I went on Jay Klaus's podcast.
At the same time, I was launching a cohort. I didn't sell anything in the episode. I just showed up and I gave a bunch of value as much as I possibly could.
And it sold the cohort out. Pretty much every single person who bought it referenced that podcast as one of the reasons they joined. And this works because the audience for Jay's podcast was already the perfect audience for my product.
But sales and views. are just a small part of this. Every podcast appearance also gives you a chance to grow your email list.
And you'll often hear at the end of a show, the host say, how can people hear more from you? And people tend to share their email here so they can get people onto the list and continue to communicate with them. Then there are the unspoken benefits of podcasting.
Years ago, James Smith invited me on his fitness podcast and we did the show and at the end he said, that's great, mate. How much is your program? And he became a client.
And then he went on to post a video about how great the experience was in my program on his channel. And then that blew up sales too. So he promoted me to his audience multiple times.
Meaning you really never know where networking with a podcast host might take you. Funny story. And this is a really crazy story.
A few years ago, I did a podcast. At the end, the podcaster asked if he could join my program. I said, yeah, sure.
It's 5k. And he went, oh, I'm looking for something more serious. I want to spend about 30.
but the real benefit here is more that you chat with the podcast host after and build a relationship and then you can harness their network. So many podcast hosts I've stayed in touch with. I ended up going for dinner with this guy, Charlie Johnson, and he is a great kisser.
Sorry, Charlie. I'm joking, we didn't kiss. But we do WhatsApp sometimes and he has now invited me to events and to buy and...
It's just a great way to build a network. And they do say your network is your true net worth. Now, is because, well, look at this.
When you go on a podcast, if it's a video one and the host's good at promoting, they then cut the episode into clips and blast it all over their social media to promote it. When I went on one recently, someone did this and I went on Instagram, which I never use, and suddenly 3 ,000 followers appeared. You also walk away with a great long form piece of content you can clip up and put on your social media and on your channel too.
And if you don't have a big following, having a famous face in your space interview you and then posting clips of that on social media on your channel makes people think you are more credible too. So you can harness their credibility on your own platform to get more views and respect. And here's the one thing that happened.
So in 2025, I started doing a bunch of these podcasts and people in my audience started messaging me saying, Ed, you are absolutely everywhere. Because if your name's in a podcast on YouTube, YouTube can then associate it with your channel. So people watch your podcast and then your channel's content gets pushed at them too.
So now you know why this is worth doing and really is, no matter how big your following is, you need to get on shows. And this is the tough part, but here's the exact system I've used for years that has gotten me onto much bigger podcasts when I had almost no following and they generated me more sales and followers. Now, the first step of this system is finding the right podcast to go on.
And this is where a lot of people get it wrong straight away. So the instinct here is aimed for the biggest shows, but those top tier podcasts are the ones that are... inundated.
And if you just start out, your pitch might not be that great and you might get ignored. What you actually want is the biggest podcast in your specific niche. The ones where the audience is already made up of your perfect buyers and no one else.
So years ago, I applied to Antigens of Change simply because it was the one I listened to. It meant I knew the host was great. I knew the questions were great.
And I genuinely thought this is somewhere I'd love to be. This is important because when you actually know the show, it comes through in everything you do. So step one is to find podcasts with your audience and then look at what you listen to as the first step and then use AI or just a simple Google search to find the podcast in your space.
Now, step two, once you've got a list, you need to listen to a few episodes before you do anything else. So you've got to check the episode quality and get a feel for the host. And you want to make sure it's somewhere you actually want to appear on because you really don't want to end up on a podcast.
that's pumping out low effort content, it's going to waste your time and the association of low quality content is going to follow you around the internet too. I'd also recommend not going on new podcasts. The amount of people who actually keep going is tiny.
What makes podcasts so powerful is that when you discover one, you will probably binge the back catalogue of content. So going on a show that quits means your episodes won't get listens or views for years to come. So three is the most important part.
Everyone messes this up. The pitch. So when I had no following, it occurred to me that why the heck would someone want me on this show?
Why would they even want to read my email list until I have to say? They've probably got much bigger names applying. So I came up with a plan and I emailed something specific to the host of a video marketing podcast, the guy's called Ben.
And I really wanted to get on it. Ben got my email and he replied. And he was so impressed with my pitch.
He asked if we could actually talk about how I pitched to him to get on the show on the show, which is so meta. And remember, I had no following at this point. So here's what I did.
Now, the first thing you need is their email, which is usually very easy to find. It's on the site or they'll have a sign up for. Once you've got that, you need a headline for your email that will actually make them want to open it because a lot of these people are going to be getting tons of emails.
Many are going to be junk. Yours just needs to stand out before they open it. Then what I do is I take a screenshot of my face, this thing, and I put their name on it with a play button and I send it as a thumbnail for a short video pitch.
They click it. And they get a really personalised message because inside the video, I reference potentially specific episodes I've really enjoyed. I suggest a follow -up or an angle or a slightly deeper spin on something they've already covered.
And I share a few of my accolades and I show them some sample content, videos on my YouTube channel so they can watch them and see, oh, this guy actually knows what he's talking about, which is where having a few YouTube videos. really helps even if they've got no views. Basically you do as much of the work for them as possible by suggesting things that show you will be a great guest and give them less to do.
Now this whole pitch video is probably under about 90 seconds and I do need to be transparent here. I started doing this years ago and this was way before you would get scammy loom videos from bro marketers promising you they'd improve your views and sales page conversions. So maybe it was a bit easier to get attention then but I'd still do it now.
if you want to get attention just don't make it look like one of those scammy loom videos you get in your inbox every day all right so once you've pitched you've hopefully got a yes now we need to do certain things that will ensure you get on even more podcasts and almost nobody realizes the best way to get on bigger podcasts is to do this first you need to do the thing that will drive more sales and grow your following and get you invited onto bigger shows.
And it's the bit podcast hosts and guests often really mess up and means you should follow the rule that I have now set. So when I go on a podcast, I always ask for the topics that we're going to cover beforehand. And I tell the host why, because I want to prepare properly so I can make this as good as possible.
Every host who cares about their show will say yes, and they'll give me some details and they'll send me some questions. If they say no, I don't do it because... I have seen what happens when a host wings it without prep and makes things up on the spot.
And I've seen what happens when they prepare. And the difference between views and sales and traction you get is night and day. Now, they don't have to send you every question.
The podcast can cover... other things too. So it does feel like a natural conversation.
But once you've got those topics or questions, you can prepare. And the way I like to prepare is thinking of stories that I can share. Because if a podcast host asks you to explain something and you just unleash like a giant 10 -step sequence, people can't remember that.
For the same reason they can't remember the 10 -step sequence to put their Ikea desk together. But if you tell stories, they can walk away with something that is very easy to digest, very memorable, and can create light bulb moments. This will increase your influence and raise your credibility.
So for every question, I find a moment, something I've lived through, something a client went through, and I try and use that story in the podcast. Then on top of that, I think about my frameworks. If I just list 20 things that make a great thumbnail, the listener's going to go...
But if I say three things and I give them a simple structure that they can remember and... apply for themselves, they leave the episode feeling like they got something genuinely valuable from it. So the combination of stories and frameworks is what makes podcasts so much easier to listen to.
And this means people stay engaged, and it also makes the content more shareable too. Now, you don't want to sound scripted, but you also don't want to come across as unprepared as you're written. Now, if you do this right, your podcast episode will have very high quality, and this is important.
My goal every single time I go on a show is to become the top performing episode on the channel. Not just a good episode, one of the best. And when it's live, I email it to my list.
I share it on my community wall and I've got a dedicated section on my YouTube channel right now. where every podcast appearance that I've been on recently lives. Because I want people to find it, watch it, lap up the quality.
And because I spent the time trying to make it epic content, that generates me more sales, but also gets me on more podcasts. So here's what I mean. You see this guy, Charlie from Charisma on Command.
We met years ago in LA. He's a great kisser too. And one day I saw his face pop up on Diary of a CEO and I messaged him.
I was like, how the heck did that happen, man? And it turns out he'd done a podcast on Chris Williamson's and the Diary of a CEO team saw it and were impressed with him and said, come on our show. So when bigger podcasts wants guests, they are scrolling through smaller shows looking for guests that they believe would be of interest to their audience too.
And if you knocked it out of the park. they will invite you on. So prepare your episode as if a massive podcast host is vetting you.
Try and promote it so it gets more views, meaning they might actually see it. And then when you pitch to new podcasts, you can use that top performing show in your pitch to get you on the next one. The thing is, there is no doubt that as I grew a following over the years, I stopped having to reach out to podcasts as much.
They started coming to me. So if you want to learn exactly how I grew a YouTube channel for my business, so that generated views, sales, and more podcast appearances, watch this video next, and I will teach you the exact proof.
The Hook
The bait, then the rug-pull.
Ed Lawrence says the fastest way to grow a following and make sales isn't more content, it's stealing someone else's. He walks through the exact pitch-and-prep system he still uses to get booked on podcasts, even starting with close to zero following.
Named ideas worth stealing.
02:09list
The Podcast System
- Find the podcast with your audience
- Check show quality
- The pitch
- Request topics & prepare
- Promote for more views
A five-step sequence for getting booked on podcasts and converting appearances into compounding growth.
Steal forany creator or coach building a guesting or outreach pipeline
08:05concept
The Perfect Pitch Video
- Find the host's email
- Write a headline that earns an open
- Record a sub-90-second personalized video referencing specific episodes
- Share accolades and sample content
- Do as much of the work for the host as possible
A short, personalized video pitch that replaces a cold outreach email, designed to prove the guest is worth booking before the host even talks to them.
Steal forcold outreach to any gatekeeper, not just podcast hosts
How they asked for the click.
VERBAL ASK
12:30next-video
“So if you want to learn exactly how I grew a YouTube channel for my business, so that generated views, sales, and more podcast appearances, watch this video next.”
soft cross-promotion to a companion video on his YouTube growth system, placed at the very end only after the full podcast-guesting system has been delivered in full
MENTIONED ON CAMERA
FROM THE DESCRIPTION
PRIMARY CTAWhere the creator wants you to go next.
OTHER LINKSAlso linked in the description.
Visual structure at a glance.
