The argument in one line.
Chasing what you can do rather than what you can feel is not the absence of peace — it is the path that, for some people, produces satisfaction as a side effect rather than as a goal.
Read if. Skip if.
READ IF YOU ARE…
- You have built or are building something significant and wonder whether the drive behind it is healthy or a wound.
- You grew up religious, drifted away, and have never fully resolved the intellectual and emotional residue of that journey.
- You coach, lead, or manage people and want a cleaner mental model for motivation, burnout, and behavior change.
- You're curious how a person who defines everything in observable, actionable terms approaches belief, morality, and the existence of God.
- You want to understand the difference between guilt and shame — or between identity labels and actual behavior — at a precise level.
SKIP IF…
- You want business tactics, frameworks for growing revenue, or marketing advice — none of that appears here.
- You find extended theological discussion uninteresting — roughly 40% of the episode is a sincere debate about Christianity, free will, and salvation.
The full version, fast.
Hormozi opens by choosing power over peace, then spends 98 minutes demonstrating why the framing is wrong: he defines power as stored potential to help people, and argues that doing things you are good at and rewarded for produces satisfaction as a byproduct — not a target. The deeper thread is a genuine wrestling match with Christian faith: Hormozi spent five years studying apologetics, was fully surrendered to Christ in his early twenties, then eroded out of belief not through bad community but through inability to clear the evidential bar he set for himself. Janko, himself a committed Christian, refuses to let the intellectual framing stand as a final answer — ultimately arguing that Hormozi's behavior already looks more Christian than most people who claim the label.
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Create a free account →Who's talking.
00:00hostGeorge Janko
01:08guestAlex Hormozi
Where the time goes.
00:00 – 02:04
01 · Intro and merch plug
Cold open with a supercut of memorable quotes from the episode, then Janko breaks to promote his Heart of David merch before the episode begins.
02:04 – 05:01
02 · Why everyone respects Hormozi
Janko describes the unprecedented feedback he got from friends when he said he was interviewing Hormozi — multiple people put their phones down to say 'he changed my life.' Establishes the dynamic: Hormozi is always the same person on camera as off.
05:01 – 10:02
03 · Peace, purpose, and 'why bother'
The central question: peace or power? Hormozi chooses power, frames it as stored potential energy vs. self-satisfaction. Describes his five-year happiness obsession triggered by family mental illness. Notes that monks are four standard deviations happier than average — then explains why he chose the Steve Jobs path anyway.
10:02 – 19:49
04 · George challenges Alex's sacrifice
Janko pushes: are you sacrificing yourself for power? Hormozi reframes sacrifice and says he's not giving up as much as others have given for him. The fatherhood question arrives. Hormozi explains his worldview: we do things because we are rewarded for them, full stop. George asks what happens if the wife stops rewarding. Hormozi: behavior eventually goes extinct.
19:49 – 31:25
05 · Control, standards, and letting go
Control is the opposite of freedom — you can't control everything and remain free. Hormozi explains how to delegate by breaking 'do a good job' into 37 observable sub-behaviors (the basketball analogy). George admits he struggles to let go. Labels, identity, and the mechanics of personality are introduced.
31:25 – 39:19
06 · Why burnout really happens
Burnout is an extinction curve on a behavior, not a collapse of willpower. The reward loop habituated or stopped. Punishment also habituates — variety and intensity must change to stay effective. Identity labels as reinforcers: calling someone a good provider makes them act like one.
39:19 – 40:55
07 · Jordan Peterson, morality, and God
Brief mention of Hormozi's conversation with Jordan Peterson. Peterson hasn't submitted his faith verbally — he won't be tamed by what others want him to say. Janko uses this as a bridge to ask about what sits at the center of Hormozi's universe.
40:55 – 48:38
08 · What sits at the center of your universe
Janko presses: what is your version of God, your higher power? Hormozi talks about authenticity as 'how you'd behave if you could not get punished.' Janko shares his own theology. Hormozi reveals five years of happiness studies, the trunk of apologetics books, and the conclusion: he forswore chasing feelings and chased doing instead — and satisfaction arrived as a byproduct.
48:38 – 59:35
09 · Alex opens up about Christianity
Hormozi describes being fully surrendered to Christ at age 22. Woke up every morning making peanut butter sandwiches for homeless people. Didn't take his shirt off at pool parties so other men wouldn't feel bad. Donated 90%, lived on 10%. Explains why Christianity's grace model — you can never be good enough, salvation through acknowledgment of failure — was the only framework that made logical sense among all world faiths.
59:35 – 1:06:01
10 · Can you choose to believe
Janko asks if belief is a choice or a feeling. Hormozi distinguishes: it is not that he lacks feelings, it is whether those feelings serve him and translate to action. His therapist told him to 'just make a decision.' He concluded in his heart of hearts he just doesn't believe the resurrection happened. Janko points to the man in the Bible who asked Jesus to give him the faith to believe — evidence that even the asking counts.
1:06:01 – 1:11:01
11 · You might be more Christian than me
Janko tells Hormozi he might be more efficient a Christian than Janko himself. Hormozi notes that by his own framework — 'you shall know them by their fruit' — actions are the only real observable proxy for belief. The two find genuine common ground: most people who claim the label don't act like it.
1:11:01 – 1:20:41
12 · Free will, environment, and salvation
Hormozi challenges free will: if environment predictably shifts behavior, the line between influence and control is a gradient, not a binary. If you can control behavior 100%, free will dissolves. Janko responds: freedom comes through Christ, not from within. The hypothetical: if Hormozi had been born into a fully Christian town, he would almost certainly be Christian — which raises uncomfortable questions about eternal judgment hinging on circumstance.
1:20:41 – 1:27:05
13 · Real Christians vs fake Christians
What separates the 5% from the 95%? Actions, not claims. You shall know them by their fruit. The fig tree parable: Pharisees dressed like fruit-bearers but produced nothing — and that bad fruit made Hormozi run from the faith. Except Hormozi clarifies: he didn't leave because of false Christians. He left because of his own belief struggle.
1:27:05 – 1:33:45
14 · The fig tree, doubt, and lost faith
Hormozi explains the erosion: not a sudden break but a slow continuum. Belief, like love, sits on a spectrum. He was reading books alone in Baltimore, isolated from Christian community, and the muscle atrophied. Janko: the seed was there but it needed soil. Hormozi: I know, and I also know that the truth is — if his worldview of Christianity is correct, he would have gone to hell in that earlier period.
1:33:45 – 1:38:48
15 · George pushes back on Alex's faith and closing
Janko refuses the 'I lost faith' framing. He argues Hormozi was never actually fully in — not because Hormozi is lying, but because the seed never got what it needed. He prays, on mic, that Hormozi has an encounter that is 'mathematically above his understanding.' Hormozi says he'd bow and worship if the creator of the universe stood before him — the difficulty was simply believing it happened. Strong beliefs loosely held. Episode ends on mutual respect and an open door.
Lines worth screenshotting.
- Chasing happiness directly produces less of it than chasing things you can do with your hands and eyes — satisfaction shows up as a side effect.
- Burnout is not exhaustion. It is an extinction curve: the reward that used to accompany a behavior has stopped arriving.
- Giving someone a label they want to live up to changes their behavior faster than giving them instructions.
- Control and freedom are exact opposites — you cannot control everything in your business and also be free from your business.
- Commitment is the elimination of alternatives, not a feeling of certainty.
- The love of money is the root of evil, not money itself — the distinction matters because any reinforcer that crowds out your other priorities becomes the problem, not the reinforcer.
- Personality is the aggregate of how a person acts across all situations — not a fixed trait, but a pattern derived from history.
- If you want to change someone's behavior, change their environment first. Individual willpower is an overestimated lever.
- Punishment habituates just like reward. To stay effective, both need variety and intensity changes over time.
- Identity labels are reinforcers: the moment you call yourself a good provider, merely thinking of that label rewards you for acting like one.
- Belief is a continuum, not a binary. The question is not whether you believe but how much you're willing to give to maintain that belief.
- The only faith tradition that does not require outscoring your sins to earn salvation is Christianity — and that asymmetry is precisely what made it intellectually compelling.
- A faith that flourishes needs soil, sunlight, and water — the same belief in isolation tends to erode regardless of original conviction.
- You shall know them by their fruit: actions are the only observable proxy for what a person actually believes, regardless of what they say.
- Strong beliefs loosely held means willingness to update when conditions change — and the Internet consistently punishes this as inconsistency.
- Leave it better than you found it is a credo that scales from a dirty table at Whole Foods to how you run a company of thousands.
- Peace defined as having used every ounce of potential to serve the most people is indistinguishable from what others call utility.
- Most people experience the illusion of choice rather than genuine free will — because environment can predictably shift behavior, the gradient between influence and control is narrow.
Doing is the path to being.
WHAT TO LEARN
Across 98 minutes, one through-line holds: chasing states — happiness, peace, faith, authenticity — directly is less effective than chasing actions, and the states tend to arrive as byproducts.
03Peace, purpose, and 'why bother'
- Pursuing happiness as a direct target produces less of it than pursuing things you can do with your hands and eyes — satisfaction arrives as a side effect of doing work you are good at and rewarded for.
04George challenges Alex's sacrifice
- Commitment is the elimination of alternatives, not a feeling of certainty. The feeling fluctuates; the commitment holds because alternatives are off the table by definition.
05Control, standards, and letting go
- Control and freedom are opposites on the same axis. Every unit of control you retain over a process is a unit of freedom you surrender. The entrepreneurs who scale are the ones who learn to relinquish control at successive levels.
- Giving someone a label they want to live up to is a more durable behavior-change lever than instruction or incentive alone, because the label becomes its own internal reinforcer.
06Why burnout really happens
- Burnout is not a collapse of willpower. It is an extinction curve: the rewards that once accompanied a behavior have habituated, stopped arriving, or both. The fix is to refresh and vary the reward loops, not to push harder.
09Alex opens up about Christianity
- Faith that starts as a seed needs soil, water, and sunlight — community, engagement, environment. The same conviction in isolation tends to erode over time regardless of how sincere the original experience was.
10Can you choose to believe
- Belief sits on a continuum. The question is not whether you believe but how much you are willing to give in order to maintain that belief — the same measurement that defines love.
12Free will, environment, and salvation
- If you want to change someone's behavior, changing their environment is more reliable than changing their mind. Individual willpower is a weak variable when the surrounding conditions remain constant.
13Real Christians vs fake Christians
- Actions are the only observable proxy for what a person actually believes. Claims, labels, and self-descriptions are almost always less reliable than looking at what someone does consistently when no one is checking.
15George pushes back on Alex's faith and closing
- Authenticity, as a practical definition, is how you would behave if you could not be punished — not consistency of persona, but behavior uncoupled from consequence.
Terms worth knowing.
- Global reinforcer
- A rule or identity so central to a person that adhering to it is itself rewarding, independent of any external payoff. Hormozi uses religious faith as a worked example — the act of behaving consistently with a stated belief reinforces the behavior even when no one is watching.
- Extinction curve
- The behavioral pattern where a previously rewarded behavior gradually decreases in frequency as the reward stops arriving. Hormozi uses it to explain burnout: the job tasks haven't changed, but the satisfaction they once produced has been extinguished.
- Fight-me statement
- Hormozi's term for a claim so foundationally true that it is nearly impossible to disprove — e.g., 'more people knowing about your product makes it more likely they will buy it.' Used as a standard for the kind of content he is willing to teach.
- Workspace faith
- Hormozi's term for any religion where entry to the afterlife is earned by outperforming a moral ledger — doing more good than bad. He contrasts it with Christianity, which he argues is the only major tradition that explicitly rejects this model.
- Apologetics
- A branch of Christian theology focused on constructing rational defenses of the faith. Hormozi spent years reading apologetics texts including C.S. Lewis's Mere Christianity and The Case for Christ, trying to logic his way to belief.
- Kings and Priests
- A book (and theological framework) Hormozi was given at age 22 that argued different Christians are called to different roles in the kingdom — some to ministry, some to generating and donating wealth. It pointed him toward making money as a form of service rather than pursuing pastoral work.
- Hedonic cycle
- The pattern by which pleasures habituate — things that once felt rewarding lose their intensity with repetition, requiring escalating novelty or intensity to produce the same effect. Hormozi applies it symmetrically to both reward and punishment.
Things they pointed at.
08:58channelTony Robbins
32:45channelJordan Peterson
52:25bookKings and Priests (book)
55:55bookThe Case for Christ — Lee Strobel
56:20bookMere Christianity — C.S. Lewis
56:12bookCase for Christ (also referenced)
1:06:40channelStephen Bartlett podcast (Diary of a CEO)
1:25:28channelBilly Graham interview re: Clinton
Lines you could clip.
41:30
“I have used up every ounce of potential that I have to serve the most amount of people. And that's your version of peace? And utility.”
45:20
“I define authenticity as how you'd behave if you could not get punished.”
01:53
“I see control as the equal opposite of freedom. If you want to have absolute control, you can't — you will not be free unless you give things up.”
54:18
“I wouldn't take my shirt off during that period when I was at a pool party because I didn't want the other guys to feel bad. Who am I serving here?”
32:00
“Burnout is just when the cycle of reward you're accustomed to either becomes too latent, not intense enough, or you habituate to it, or it stops happening.”
1:31:15
“Strong beliefs loosely held.”
1:14:30
“I do believe we can influence. If you can influence, you control. If you can control, the whole concept around choice for eternal salvation might not be as individual as we have framed it to be.”
1:33:20
“I actually didn't fall away because of meeting false Christians. I think I could recognize that pretty easily. I left because of my own beliefs and struggles.”
Where the conversation goes.
00:00 – 10:02densePeace vs. power — the central framing and its dismantling
10:02 – 19:49steadySacrifice, fatherhood, and the cost of building
19:49 – 39:19denseBehavioral psychology — control, delegation, personality, labels
31:25 – 40:55denseMotivation, burnout, and reward systems
39:19 – 48:38steadyMorality, accountability, and what judges behavior without God
48:38 – 1:06:01denseHormozi's Christian history — conversion, full surrender, drift
1:06:01 – 1:11:01denseBelief as a continuum, faith as a choice, the grace model
1:11:01 – 1:20:41denseFree will, environment, and the ethics of salvation
1:20:41 – 1:38:48denseReal vs. fake Christianity — fruit, actions, and community
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metaphoranalogystory
00:00I love this. So like I can talk as much as you want about this. I wish that more people did this.
00:05Why bother? What's what's the point of all of this? Are you sacrificing yourself?
00:08I have used up every ounce of potential that I have to serve the most amount of people. What is it that is at the center of your universe that changes you for the outworld?
00:18I have strong beliefs loosely held. But when I'm looking at you, bro, I see a lot of lonely nights, a lot of tears, a lot of sacrifice. Do you think that's a projection of what you think I am?
00:28I did not come prepared enough to dish back to you Uh-huh. What I feel is worthy enough for you to ponder. Which one do you really believe in your heart of hearts?
00:37And I was like, in my heart of hearts, I just don't believe it. Well done, man. You got me.
00:55Hey, what's up guys? Just before we start this episode, I wanted to give you guys the good news. Theheartofdavid.co is now out and available.
01:02I know a lot of you guys have been hitting me up being like, bro, when is it coming out? I'm sorry it took so long. I just wanted to make sure that what I drop is very special for you guys.
01:09So check it out. Hit the link in my description or go to the heartofdavid.co and enjoy your merch today.
01:15Alright. Enjoy today's episode, guys. Dude, what's up, Alex?
01:18How are you, dude? Good, man. I'm pumped about this episode.
01:20I'm pumped too. I am pumped. By the way, we got to talk before the podcast.
01:26And, uh, before I even start the podcast, I always ask my close friends like, hey, I'm about to interview this guy. Like, what do you think?
01:34What do you think? Is there any questions or any concerns? Like, I like to touch base.
01:39I have never seen the feedback that I got from a guest that I'm interviewing like I have with yours. I've had dudes that are, like, not even Horrified from a mic.
01:49Yeah. I was getting I didn't even already They'll literally be like, not even listening to me. They'll be over here and I'll be like, yeah.
01:55I'm gonna be, you know, interviewing Alex and they just put their phone down. They go, he's changed my life. And I was like, oh my god.
02:00That's really cool. So you've done a lot of cool things and there was one thing my friend said about you and I I right off the rip, wanna say it.
02:10He goes in every interview, any clip, any media, when when the camera's hitting him, he's always the same person And that is a crazy crazy compliment.
02:20Because even myself, I wrestle that. Even on my own podcast, I'm like, oh my god. I'm trying so hard here.
02:25Like, I need to tone it back. And you told me that this podcast Yeah.
02:31Was gonna be a little nerve wracking for you because of, like Yeah. You don't tap into Yeah.
02:36To that emotional side. Can I tell you something? Sure.
02:38You you I can't tell you how grateful I am that you said that because Mhmm. Since last night, I'm, like, researching a lot about you, really diving deep, asking questions, and I just said a prayer to God.
02:49I said, God, I just want him to be wanting to have a deep conversation with me. And the fact that the first thing he said, no. I'm ready.
02:56And I say, hey, there's anything you don't wanna talk about, you're like, no, anything you want. And so, I guess we'll start with this question.
03:02Mhmm. If you could have all the money and power in the world Mhmm. Or just peace
03:10Mhmm. Which one do you lean towards? Oh, it'd be all the money and power.
03:14Okay. I would agree with Yeah. Okay.
03:17Okay. So, I'm leaning towards peace. Yeah.
03:19And I feel like you and I were very different on this table, but Yeah. There's a lot of things that you've done that my whole entire bloodline hasn't accomplished. So let's just put it all on the table.
03:29Why is it that you would choose that rather than peace?
03:34So I see it as a as a question of utility versus satisfaction.
03:40And so I remember wrestling this with with this when I was coming of age. And I thought, you know, I looked at a bunch of scientific literature, like, are the happiest people?
03:51So I was very happiness obsessed for, like, many years of my life. My mother struggled with with mental illness and in the family, there's a bunch of bad stuff. And so I was like, well, I wanna try and get ahead of this.
04:03You know? And so the people who had the highest subjective well-being ratings, there's one group that's like four standard deviations above most of the population and that's a certain sect of monks that meditate for like ten plus hours a day.
04:19And so they just have like completely, you know, left shifted or sorry, right shifted the graph in terms of like where they all sit. They're they're just operating at a different level of contentedness with the world.
04:30And so I was very strongly considering like, okay. Well, if peace is the goal, then that is the clear path.
04:38I can just go be a monk and just do that. And that is like that is the most proven way of doing it. And when I thought about that path versus, let's say let's take a a Steve Jobs or a Musk or a Bezos, whatever flavor you you have of the impact that those people had on the world and sometimes to their own, I wanna say, great sacrifice, I would prefer I think maybe on some other level, I would rather get to the end of my life knowing that I had helped many people.
05:15And maybe that is a backwards way of getting to my own peace. So it would depend more in terms of how do we define peace.
05:21That's why I wanna find the root of it. Yeah. Because when I listen to you speak and I and I I see your metrics on where your theology is, did you you build men.
05:32You wake up in the morning and your compass is pointed to, like, how to make my neighbor happier, faster.
05:40And so in my brain, that is a level of peace. Like, I know you sat down with people that I even look up to, Tony Robbins, and all these other type of people will say, helping your neighbor, there's a source of peace to it.
05:52Mhmm.
05:54That's why I asked the power aspect of it because I guess my question is, do you are you sacrificing yourself? Have you put yourself in a position that you're like, okay, well, me and my family, we've wrestled with peace.
06:12Mhmm. So if I'm gonna keep wrestling with it, let me be the one that wrestles with it and not my neighbors and the ones that I love. I think,
06:20I would say that I have a willingness to more than the actuality of it. I think that I live a very blessed life, if we use if I use that term.
06:29Yeah. I I do what I am good at, and I enjoy doing that thing possible because I'm good at it. And I would say that if you were to ask my team who interact with me on a daily basis, they'd probably say like, Alex is pretty happy guy.
06:43Yeah. I enjoy my life. That said, I think there's like let's call it 90% of the day when I'm just there's whatever mode we get in when we're like doing things.
06:55And then there's maybe the 10% of your life or 5%, whatever percentage is for you that's maybe you're little bit more introspective and you're like, why bother? What's what's the point of all of this?
07:04And I don't think that anyone really has the answer. And of course, there's there's theological answers to that and I I I don't my mother's a born again Christian evangelical, so I was raised in this.
07:13And during that five years of like happiness studies that I did, I had a trunk at the bottom of my bed, big trunk. And it was filled to the brim of just theological books and specifically apologetics, so Defense of Faith for Christianity. And so I got very deep into that because I thought maybe I can logic my way there.
07:29Maybe I can, like make a bulletproof argument, Case for Christ, Mere Christianity, some of those types of books that are kind of like the the tip of the iceberg. But to to go back to the original question of like, do I feel like I'm sacrificing myself?
07:43Um, no. Because I think that if you sacrifice yourself, you're giving up something. And I don't think that I've given up nearly as much as many people have given up for me.
07:53And you don't have to answer this Yeah. If don't feel comfortable, congratulations on you're about to be a father.
07:59Yeah. Yeah. Does that realm of sacrifice there, like, does does that enter in your mind?
08:05Like, usually when a and a man is about to have a baby, he's always thinking of, like, okay. I should Like, example, you say this to men, work out now. Get on your grind now Yeah.
08:14Because later on, it's gonna be harder, uh, because you won't be able to sacrifice that time. You say you don't sacrifice, but all of your time and energy if it's for money and power.
08:26Mhmm. And I feel like you're smart enough to realize that you're not taking that with you. Oh, and to be clear, the money and power can never be the goal.
08:35Yeah. It's I translate that into,
08:38would you rather have or peace? And I can do a hell of a lot more with power and money.
08:48And a lot of people will have a negative connotation to even the words power and money, but power and money can be used to build hospitals, save countries, save people. Peace can save me. Yeah.
08:58And maybe in the like, I think it's a bit of a, like, have your cake and eat it too. I think that if I had infinite power and money, I could help a a godly amount of people and probably also achieve a certain amount of peace and satisfaction for a job well done.
09:17I just wanna know what the root of the seed is. Like,
09:20I see what your tree is and it's very fruitful. I mean, I could even tell by your own teammates. Like, they're all happy, they're at peace, they're they're excited to be here.
09:27You could tell when somebody's in in in a good place when they're working.
09:34You're saying to help your neighbor. To help your neighbor for what reason? What stems in your heart the benefit of helping your neighbor?
09:43Because remember, me and Tony were cheesy but we do it to receive peace. We do it like, okay, like, in our in our way of life, God says, love God with all of your heart and love your neighbor as yourself.
09:55Mhmm. I'm gonna dig deeper into that because loving yourself is tough, like, especially when it's your own career and you have to monitor that.
10:02I would love to dive deep into that. I would actually like to learn from you. But what is it?
10:07Like, what made you so hungry for you to go do this? Because from everybody else from their perspective of them watching you, they're seeing your success. But when I'm looking at you, bro, I see a lot of lonely nights, a lot of tears, a lot of sacrifice.
10:22There's a lot going into what you're doing.
10:25Can I ask why you see that? Because I don't have any lonely nights and I don't cry very much. And so, do you think that's a projection of what you think I am or how I am versus how I actually that's a projection of you're right.
10:38It is a projection because I don't know you. So that
10:41that's me assuming, and I'm sorry. Yeah.
10:44No. You're good. But I guess from where I've sat in my life with people that I look up to, not people that I'm saying in a rude way, I've seen them sacrifice, cry, and build.
10:57And I feel like I'm building somewhat of what you're building, not at the same level but yeah, I've cried and I've been frustrated and I've sacrificed. But the end goal in my brain is when I meet God, I wanted my art to touch lives.
11:12So I I that gives me the motivation to push through my pain. And if you don't mind me asking, if I kinda wanna take a travel back, how is it that you don't cry and you don't feel emotion towards this? It's not that I don't feel emotion.
11:24I think it's
11:26I mean, I cried the day I got married. I would just say, like, I cry less often than maybe other people cry. I don't see it necessarily as a deficit.
11:33What is the correct amount of crying? You know what I mean? And does the amount you cry have any relation to how
11:40happy, sad, in touch with anything you are? I don't know. I feel like I cry a lot.
11:46Not in a way where like I'm a sad person, but if I see you're going through so for example, I saw a video of you crying looking at your wife. Yeah. I would be emotional because I'm like, my goodness.
11:56What a blessing that he found somebody he loves so much. Yeah. And then I would also get emotional.
12:00I almost only tear I only I would say almost exclusively tear up for happy things.
12:04Wow. That's really sweet. So I get choked up for happy things, for gratitude is usually where I get very when I see pictures of like how I came up, I can get like choked up because I I know how much I suffered at that point compared to now and how how hard I was pushing to get to here.
12:21Can I touch on that? Sure. Was there a place in your life where you said, hey.
12:25We're done crying?
12:27No. Um, I think I I teared up or choked up on the on the podcast I did with, um, Stephen Bartlett. It was when I was talking about Leila.
12:35Um, but, no, I don't think. No.
12:39I I don't I also have no positive or negative
12:43judgment on crying. What's up, guys? This video is sponsored by Ekster.
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13:22That's a lot. I don't know if you do math, but 50 is like, woah, we're halfway there. 60 is like, oh, we're half plus 10.
13:30Insane, especially when you're packing. They got the regular vacuum bag and the vacuum bag plus, which plus means more, and it's waterproof.
13:43And to seal it, you could use the little portable thing, which is very small that they give you, and you could just pop, and it just takes it all out, or you could just use a regular vacuum, which I find very convenient. And guys, it's durable, bro. It is it's not like I don't know how to explain it.
13:59Even the zipper, bro, it comes with like this little thing, and thank goodness it does, because I I wouldn't even be able to like, this is the nicest zipper I've ever seen in my life, dog. If this interests you, hit the link in my description. Have you always been more like analytical and not and less emotional?
14:17I would say that my approach to the world has been one of, like, a child, very confused, trying to figure out what is what, and trying to define words in ways that I can observe rather than, I would say, more vague language.
14:32And that has helped me tremendously in my life because I can get clarity on instruction and I can get clarity on giving instruction to other people, which allows us to scale organizations, things like that, but also make things repeatable.
14:49But just like I think a lot of times people are very surprised by their lives.
14:55They do something and what they thought was going to happen didn't happen. And it was because they were not very good at predicting outcomes. And a big part of that is because the way the world works versus what they the way they think it works are different.
15:09And so I would say that I have put a lot of effort into trying to understand how the world works and maybe more specifically how do humans work. And so you asked a question earlier about, like, why? I can't remember what the why what?
15:22Oh, you said we, uh, me and Tony do this thing because, um,
15:26we, you know, we seek happiness or as somebody that that degree. I just want because we're we think of an afterlife of, like, what we're accounted for here. Yeah.
15:36You're so the the levels that you're at, I've only seen when people are chasing something that is bigger than them. Yeah.
15:43So to watch you speak in such, like, a humble way like a child, like walking into a room and just analyzing it, well, one, you're good at it. It's like very good at it.
15:53And the second is like, that's why I asked the peace thing because what is like, okay. There's a verse in the gospel.
16:00Yeah. And I think about it when I think of you. What is it what is it worth to gain the whole world Mhmm.
16:05But then lose your soul? Totally. Now, I'm not saying you're sitting here selling your soul.
16:09Or that I've lost it. Yes. But I'm saying what have you done to nurture it?
16:13So so this is a this is a really good example. Um, so there's two words that we've thrown back and forth and most people would nod their heads and say, like, oh, I know what they're talking about.
16:22But if I were to say soul and you were to say soul or I were to say peace and you were to say peace, I don't know if we'd say the same thing. And so we're using this word as a construct and this is why I like language so much is that like and this is where miscommunications happen. And like there was one with, you know, Tony at the very beginning of the podcast, I say pain or I say suffering, he says pain.
16:39He defines it differently than I do, But we actually we actually do mean the same thing, but it makes it apparent conflict. Right? And so Perspective.
16:46Yeah. And so so to me, it's like, what what does peace mean to you? Maybe my definition of utility might be peace for you.
16:53Fair. I don't know. What is your if you think of peace Yeah.
16:57What what do you feel? What do you see? That I have used up every ounce of potential that I have to serve the most amount of people.
17:04And that's your version of peace? And utility. I will be at peace when I do that.
17:10It will also be my point of maximum utility. I have been made useful. I see myself as a tool.
17:16Yeah. I'm I'm just I'm interested in you because That'll get taken off context.
17:22Oh, buddy. Yes. You are.
17:24No. But I it's this is so fascinating to me because I think, like, okay.
17:30To watch somebody be as hungry for serving others and being like the utility for others, they're usually basing it off of something greater than them.
17:41So, you have nothing greater than you, then a blush There's many things greater than me. Ah. Okay.
17:48So, what is it then? I don't hold myself on a pedestal. I wouldn't wouldn't Okay.
17:51Yeah. I just you know. Don't come off like that at all.
17:54What I meant that is like a higher power. Some people it might be Buddha. Yeah.
17:58And some people might be Jesus. But, in my brain, they that has channeled them to to go farther in life than by themselves. And so, I'm asking you the power of peace thing, usually people say, oh, I want power until it reaches peace.
18:12Or some people say, oh, I do this so I could have peace with my family. I'll answer your question.
18:18I spent basically five years in the pursuit of peace or happiness or satisfaction, whatever version of that word, and we can get more specific if we want to. But and that was unfruitful for me.
18:31And so I decided to forgo the path of chasing happiness and peace and started chasing something that I could do rather than something that I could feel.
18:42And when I started shifting all of my behavior and all my learnings around what can I do and focusing only those things, I started getting satisfaction as a result?
18:52And so then that became a huge shift in my worldview of like, I will just focus on the things that I can see with my eyes and do with my hands. And that's that's basically and and the reason I think the the the books and the content things like that is that I only describe the world in words that people can understand with their eyes and their ears and and their hands.
19:13And that's what allows for really clear communication and a high percentage of communication transiting to the other person. And this is why I think I I would say that if I were ever against anything, it would be vague language. It's just terms that people use that sound good, rhetoric, you know, putting words together that alliterate or that rhyme, but doing it in a way that oh, that sounds really good, but they don't know what it means.
19:35And so they can't really take any action as a result, but it sounds good.
19:39If I may. So you're very much some You're very much somebody who likes to take things in charge.
19:47Were you would you say that you were a little bit of, like, a control freak when you were younger? Like, you needed to, like, figure out something worked? No?
19:54And do you find it I'm the opposite. Really?
19:58You, like, feel like you can, like, be hands off and let things I have high standards.
20:03That's my job, is to hold the standard. But no.
20:08I also see control as the equal opposite of freedom. Mhmm.
20:12Mhmm. It, like, restricts you You cannot have if you want to have absolute control, you can't like, if you wanna control every single thing in your business, then you're also controlled by your business.
20:22Like, you will not be free unless a lot of entrepreneur not to get too far in a business, but like a lot of entrepreneurship is giving up control at different levels. So in the very beginning, you do everything. And so then you have to relinquish control on some things and give them to other people in order for you to rise up and do the next thing.
20:38Yeah. I think that's what I struggle with.
20:41Um, actually, it's so funny. Was like something I was dealing with with Belle today. I think that I have a hard time letting go.
20:46Could
20:48you teach me how your brain adapted to holding the standard but not letting it control you?
20:56And clearly defining it. And so, typically, the where where problems happen is where you're like, you get what I'm doing. Right?
21:02Okay. I need you to do it. Most people so to answer the original question, which you guys do these things because of a higher purpose, etcetera.
21:10My worldview is that we do things because we've been rewarded for doing them. Period.
21:16And so if you stop getting rewarded for it? You stop doing it. Can I ask you I I always say, can I ask you a question?
21:23I'm just gonna stop saying that if there's every question that I write to you. Okay. So what happens if your wife stops doing that for you?
21:30If she stops what? Rewarding you in the ways that you she used to reward you with.
21:36Because time grows, everything changes. Then whatever things that I was doing that got reward would eventually go extinct.
21:43Do you feel like that kid be catastrophic to the relationship?
21:47Totally. I think a lot of marriages suffer from that. I think lack of appreciation is, like, the number one reason people get divorced.
21:52Mhmm. So how would you how
21:54would you refrain that from happening when everything evolves?
21:59So there's there's levels to this. Right?
22:02And I'm I'm by the way, I'm only asking you as a student. Oh, no. You're as, like, somebody who's like I Got it.
22:07I love this. Okay. So, like, I can talk as much as you wanna practice.
22:10So we also create these rules. So I'll zoom out.
22:16We have a personality. I define personality as how we act in different situations.
22:22So if you take the aggregate of every situation and how someone acted, you could you could derive their personality. We then because I couldn't tell you every single situation, every single behavior, we then create labels that chunk up that behavior and so we give a term, he's a control freak, he's a whatever, because it's easier to say that and then the person who hears that has a series of behaviors associated with that one word and then thinks, okay, think I know what that person's talking about.
22:46And fundamentally, this is how language works. We bundle and unbundle terms. And so I'll give a, like, a a third grade level one for the audience, which is if you think about if I were to look at a five year old and say, hey, get better at basketball.
22:58There's nothing they could do with that. You can't get better at basketball. I could then break it into, okay, you have to pass, you have to shoot, you have to dribble, get better at, you know, passing, shooting, and dribbling.
23:09Even there, still kind of hard. Underneath of passing, I might say, okay.
23:14I want you to take your right foot and I want you to step towards the person and I want you to extend your elbows and I want you to finish with your thumbs down and leave your hands there and have the ball go to the other person. If the person catches it in the motion that they're traveling, then you did a good pass. That is something that a five row can do.
23:31And then if I break down shooting and I break down dribbling in in that in that way, then they're going to be able to have something that they can do. And then in aggregate, later, they'll be described as a good dribbler, a good shooter, a good passer, and then eventually a good basketball player.
23:46And so to your original question of how do I give this I'm I'm having trouble giving these these things up. It's more so having trouble defining what exactly you'd you think good is. What does good look like?
23:56How does this person know they did a good job? And a lot of times it's not one or two things, it's like 37 things. And so it's being very exhaustive in the details of what what we think good is so that we don't say do good job and then expect them to guess and get it right when we couldn't even define it for ourselves for them.
24:18What you're describing to me is is like pattern and potential. I always talk about this with people. An example I'll use is dating.
24:25Mhmm. A girl will fall in love with the potential and not the pattern. She'll skip the pattern, not see it well.
24:32What do you mean by pattern? For example, uh, he has an anger issue and every time they bring up this type of argument, he snaps, he reacts, he apologizes, she forgives, he moves on.
24:43But because of the forgiveness parts there, she forgets all of the other stuff. So when it recycles the pattern, she doesn't see a pattern, she sees potential.
24:53If he is like this, then I will be happy. And when you're describing the basketball thing from my perspective is Mhmm. That you're very good at seeing patterns and understanding what is structured and what is not structured.
25:07This doesn't give you anxiety in your in your head Zero. Because of so many of them going around? Zero.
25:12Dude, you're an interesting human being. I'm a very low stress person. I I I I've never been this interesting for the entire time.
25:20I'm not gonna let my entire life
25:22dog, what does this mean? Okay. Alright.
25:25I'm just gonna talk to you like a homie. Yeah. You understand patterns more than anybody just from sitting down with you.
25:30I'm like, this dude's a robot. Yeah. Like, you know everything about if I hung out with you for maybe three days, you would know me inside and out, and you would know how I'd work.
25:37You know where I fall short. I know people like you. So for for my question is, I know people like you because they're very successful.
25:43I know. Know. Anything I say, if it sounds disrespectful, just punch me right in the face.
25:46I'll round up. Is that okay? Yeah.
25:48Don't round house. Yeah. Okay.
25:49So if that's the case, then doesn't it alarm you that we see many men that are tested with a lot of money and power and they end up not having a great ending to their career or life because it overtakes them?
26:04Not saying it's you, not saying it's me, but since you've seen the patterns, Mhmm. What are you doing to stop you and your household from being extinguished by what is power and success?
26:17So I would, in some ways, define that as a, like, a moneyaholic. A moneyaholic. So if you if you think of, like, any kind of aholicisms, any kind of addiction, it typically is when the reinforcement loop for whatever the behavior is, whether it's drinking, drugs, it's swearing, whatever, gets in the way of your larger goals.
26:36And so, if you can drink but it doesn't interfere with your marriage, your work, your social life, then you're a responsible drinker. For some people, that might be way so to me, again, there's the medical definition, but I would say the way that I would see the behavior is that if someone has no zero interference, so it doesn't if it's not affecting their health.
26:55Now, if it does, it doesn't affect anything else, but it does affect your health, then it's it's aversive to your long term goals. But if you find a way, it's very difficult obviously because it does have aversive effects on your health, but just to use a simple example. But if you found a way to drink that somehow didn't impact your health and you were able to do so regularly and it didn't impact work, life, marriage, whatever, then I would say that you are not necessarily addicted because it like in a in a negative way because nothing bad has happened.
27:17And it's not it's not taking anything away from you. If the pursuit of money, right, which in the bible is the pursuit of money, that's the revolve of evil, not money money itself. If the pursuit or rather the love of, but whatever, If if that cycle becomes too reinforcing that you neglect your other duties that like your marriage or your kids or your health, then that is when this thing has become too powerful.
27:46So then I I think I made a mistake by asking you, like, a Sophie's Choice, power or peace? Yeah.
27:52But if you were that was a terrible first question, by the way. That was great. If you're staying here, thanks for bearing with me.
27:57I think if I said I reject the premise, have been a tough first response. That would just been a cut. Yeah.
28:05Okay. So then in your household Yeah. What is it that you envision and what is it that you because like for mine is to love God and to love my neighbors.
28:17Regulation that you live by?
28:20I would say, Laila and I have agreed on, I mean, a lot of things. But a big one, think that's a credo of ours is leave it better than you found it.
28:30And so that's people, the earth, all the employees of our company, all the customers, anyone who interacts with us, we can leave them better than we found them or they found us, then we will be a net positive overall.
28:45And that means if we go to Whole Foods and grab food, then it means that we'll clean the table even if the you know, the the table's dirty, we'll put the chairs back. Just very small things like that, but I think taking an aggregate over a long period of time. And those are things that I look forward to, you know, teaching my child,
29:00you know? Fingers crossed everything works out. I bet it does.
29:03Yeah. That's a great that's a great value mindset. And but can I ask you?
29:07So when it comes to that and it comes to even of chasing money so that, you know what mean, it doesn't over you. Yeah. Who do you think keeps you accountable?
29:15Do you feel like it's only yourself that's keeping you accountable, your wife? What if one of you guys fall short of that? And I like and even though like, again, not to, like, reject the premise, but, like, um, it's not that I chase money per se.
29:26The options were peace and money and power, which I see as potential or self satisfaction. Like, ability to save millions of people or, you know, just helping myself. This one, can have my cake and eat it too.
29:36This one, I would just help me. I'd rather do this one. In terms of my, you know, daily activities, I chase things that I'm interested in that I'm good at
29:48more than anything. Like, why like, I mean, I think the core of the question that you originally asked is like, why do you do what you do? I do what I do because I'm rewarded for doing it.
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31:07If you like what you see here, you, uh, click the link in my description and use my code, Janko. Alright. Back to the If you if you stop being rewarded for it Yeah.
31:15What would what would you see yourself moving on to? I think I would change my behavior and find something else that rewards me.
31:24So when people experience burnout, for example, it's a term that, you know, gets thrown around a lot. I get burned out a lot. So this is really interesting, and then you might find this interesting.
31:31So He's like, they're stupid people. Was like, should
31:35have been quiet there. Should have been quiet there.
31:38No. So burnout is just when the the the cycle of reward that you're accustomed to either becomes too latent, so too far in advance, not intent like, intense enough, or you habituate to it or it stops happening.
31:52So there's all four of those scenarios are basically like what used to feel good when you do something doesn't feel as good now that you've done it a 100 times. And this is basically the the hedonic cycle. And so, um, it also works in equal opposite, which is like if you punish a child or you punish anyone, in the same way, eventually habituate.
32:08You get used to it. And so in order for punishment to be effective, you have to change variety and intensity of punishment in order for it to stay to keep working. Right?
32:16And so, again, the same thing happens with reward.
32:21And so when we get burned out, we are we used to do these things and we used to get dissatisfaction out of it. And now I do these same things and I don't get that same satisfaction and so we feel burnt out.
32:32That's the so basically, it's the experience of an extinction curve on a behavior. Now, where it gets tougher is where you have other contingencies that make it difficult for you to leave.
32:42And so you have competing priorities. And so it's like, let's say you have a family who relies on you and you had this job. And when you started it, you had to do these activities and it rewarded you.
32:51But over time, people just started to expect you to do it. They stopped saying good job or just the nature of the work. It no longer was challenging for you because you got so good at it that it wasn't again, the challenge itself is rewarding when you overcome it.
33:01So there's lots of reward cycles that happen on a daily basis. But anyways, as you continue to work, now, let's say the job is zero satisfaction, but it still pays you. And so there still is a reinforcement that occurs and reinforcement just means anything that makes a behavior happen more.
33:18That's it. Anything that does that is a reinforcer. And so getting paid is a great reinforcer for doing something, but it's still all the other reinforcers in the job might have gone away.
33:26And so your family might have expectations, which also rule following for you as a global thing because I have an identity as a good father, a good provider, that I have a rule that if I were to not provide for my family, it would be against this rule I've made for myself and this identity, this label that I've scrapped for myself.
33:40And me just thinking about the fact that I am a good provider gives me reward. It reinforces me. And so what happens is when we quote like shift behavior over time, it's we create a label.
33:52Like, what you want if you wanna change someone's behavior is you give them a label that they can live up to and then you align the actions. You do this, you are this type of person. And then eventually, they begin to do other things because they like the label, because the label itself is reinforcing.
34:05That was that might have been a little too heavy, but like No. No. No.
34:08I totally understood every word of it. Okay. Okay.
34:10So then,
34:11who is to say that what they're setting for their mind Mhmm. Has a good morale to it? Oh, I
34:19above my pay grade. Okay.
34:22So that's where my question is. I don't play in shoulds. So what what happens if from five years from now, everything that you're teaching your students Mhmm.
34:30Is something that you don't believe in anymore?
34:32I think it would be unlikely, mostly because, like, I I try to root everything that I teach.
34:40If I make statements, I call them fight me statements. Like, if more people know about your stuff, it is more likely that they will buy it from you.
34:48Like, no one can buy something from you unless then they have found out about you first. Like, these are statements that I will not disagree with in ten years because they are just factually true. There's nothing like, they're fight like, fight me.
34:56That's what it is. Right? You say fight me?
34:58Yeah. Like, they're fight me statement. No.
34:59No. But it's just like they're I saw you without a shirt. Okay.
35:02No. No. No.
35:02They're they're, like, they're they're they're nondisprovable statements. Like, they're true statements. There's nothing that, like, that would change.
35:09Do you have a mentor, someone that you still learn from? Like, the first thought that came to mind when you said that was the market.
35:18Like the S and P 500? No. No.
35:20No. Just the just the yeah. I'm just watching This guy's in all field.
35:24Dude, yeah. Just just watching candlesticks all day. No.
35:28Just That's so funny. No. Just just just feedback.
35:32Like, I would say that, like, the the like, my my mentor's feedback. Like, where do like, you know, what do you consume the most of? Like, I consume the most of data.
35:39I consume the most of what we're doing and how it's working. That's what I spend my time on. Fair play that you said consume
35:46because I agree. I feel like whatever anybody consumes, they worship it. So if you said you had to worship one thing How do you define worship?
35:55Submitting your life to it. Okay. And also fearing it.
35:59Like, there there's a lot okay. Let me give you my worship. Submitting your life.
36:02What does that mean? I know this like, we're we're getting in the No. No.
36:04No. I love this. Yeah.
36:05You're you're not gonna dull me out. Yeah. The deeper I get, it's like, bro, I love it.
36:09Like Okay. I wish that more people did this. Yeah.
36:14For worship for me Mhmm. I'll I'll lay it down for one word. Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.
36:21So, in the gospel Mhmm. He's saying, if you fear me, wisdom will grow. Fruit will will come out of this.
36:27Right. Really weird thing to hear from the outside because it seems like a a cult thing. Right?
36:31Like, hey, if you fear me, you're gonna do well. Mhmm. But, the truth is, if I fear the one who gave me life Mhmm.
36:37How are my behaviors coming after it? And when I measured myself walking on this earth not fearing it Mhmm. My measurements were terrible.
36:45I wasn't a great human being. But then, once I feared something greater than me Mhmm. That gave me life Mhmm.
36:52My actions fell through. Kinda like, you know, when you said the basketball thing, hey, extend with your hands. Yeah.
36:58I didn't need to have him say extend your hands Mhmm. Because now I'm just following him and I'm watching what his hands are doing. So what who are you or what are you worshiping in your life at?
37:08Oh, so many things there. So, first off, the the
37:12the when you acted in a way in fear of God, your behavior changed Yes.
37:19Agreed. So, I call that a global reinforcer, which is that you have a rule, which is that I will follow all the things in this.
37:28Mhmm. And your adherence to that rule in of itself is reinforcing for you. When you do something and no one else is watching and you know that you are adhering to what you say, you believe,
37:37that feels good. What's up guys? This video is sponsored by Grand Canyon University.
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39:11Right. Let's get back to the show.
39:14I've
39:15yes. Because it's the original But, there's also another part of it. Yeah.
39:18There's the part okay. So, I was talking to Jordan Peterson about this Yeah. And he's so on the path of being a man after God's heart Mhmm.
39:27But he says, just haven't got to a place where I can let my mouth submit it or I won't be, uh, tamed by other people and what they want me to say or how to say it. Mhmm. What I believe in should be dictated off of my actions and and I appreciate that.
39:42But I also see people in the gospel. And by the way, like, it's hard for me to bring up the gospel when there's a lot of people that are like, I just don't even want it on the table. But my viewpoint is biblical.
39:52So, when I look at the gospel and I see a man that has a relationship with God, he never was able to get there mentally by himself. He was never able to get there, uh, faithfully by himself. He was he got there because he asked.
40:06And so, there's a master above that says, okay, now I'll give you the wisdom to see me.
40:11When Jesus was sitting with his disciples, he he didn't say whoever has ears could see. He said, whoever has ears and want to see Mhmm. And whoever has ears and wants to hear.
40:22Once I walked into this relationship, I watched a very real God activate in my life as so, as I feel I believe in him more than the two of you that are sitting right next to me and I actually see you and you're tangible. But, there's a spirit side to it that makes me submit now.
40:38Now, I don't wanna be weird, but there's a different approach to looking at God versus not just using my eyes. That being said, that is my God.
40:48I change everything to it. It changes me as a husband, it changes me as a businessman, Changes me as a friend.
40:54What is it that is at the center of your universe that changes you for the outworld?
41:01So, um, this is lovely, by the way.
41:06No. I'm enjoying this a lot. I I do.
41:08By the way, I've never had this much fun. Alright? Okay.
41:10I am so interested in you, and I'm at awe with you, bro. Like, I've watched a lot of your work.
41:17What I love about you the most is how truly truly honest you are and the way you speak. I truly feel like I'm sitting with you and I'm talking to you. A lot of people put on a mask including myself.
41:27I'm not just pointing fingers. Sometimes it's hard to take the mask off Yeah. And I like that your mask off.
41:33So I define authenticity
41:35as how you'd behave if you could not get punished.
41:41Okay. So I I love this. I had a conversation with God about this and I said, I don't know if I love you because of you and all of your works or that I might go to hell.
41:52Mhmm. And, I came to a conclusion that that's off the table because hell was never really meant for me.
41:59How I see it is is an invitation. You can invite me to your house and teach me about your mind and how it works and I could accept that invitation or not. Now, that would be very dumb of me if I have a business and I don't sit with a man who teaches other men how to do well in their own business.
42:16That would be my fault if I reject that offer. So, I don't see it as like, oh, I'm doing this because I'm punished because a true man of God is is all free for me now. Because I'm adopted into his family Mhmm.
42:29I see myself above the law. And I know that sounds a little weird. Let me explain it in a in a theory that I have.
42:34You have a son, God willing, so Mhmm. Or is it a girl? Can I ask you a quick question before Yes?
42:38We get into it? Do you ever do something and you feel ashamed of yourself? Used to.
42:42Okay. So, you feel no shame? Used to.
42:44And, I still wrestle with it, but it's not my identity as a Christian because in the gospel, it says there is no condemnation sorry. There is no condemnation in those who are in Christ Jesus. Why though?
42:55Mhmm. Because whatever I did that was wrong was already paid for. That's like look, the example I was gonna give you, if you had a son.
43:01You acknowledged that you did wrong and you'd wish you had done better. Correct? Yes.
43:06It wasn't a gotcha question. Oh, yeah. Yeah.
43:08But I don't live in condemnation.
43:10Okay. Yeah. More more like you experience guilt, you experience shame Yes.
43:15At some you do something and you're like, I could've Oh, definitely. Right. Yeah.
43:18Yeah. Yeah. I get there's always room for improvement.
43:20Right. And so, fundamentally, I just see that as I see guilt as breaking one's own rules.
43:24Yeah. I see shame as breaking someone else's rules. Sometimes you can feel both if you break your own rules and someone else's.
43:29Sometimes you do things alone
43:31that, uh, you would be ashamed of, but you don't feel guilty afterwards. But what Right. Okay.
43:35But where's Sometimes you feel both. But where's the boundaries? And sorry.
43:38Go ahead. Yeah. Where's the boundaries?
43:39Like, who's setting the law of what's right or wrong? Because what you're Right. Yeah.
43:43Praising is right, which I also agree is right, but that came from Jesus. When he came here, the way that he was speaking shocked the world Yeah. Because they were barbarians and they wanted to kill the neighbor.
43:53They wanted eye for eye. So, when you're saying leave it better than what it was left at, that's Jesus talking. That's his theories.
44:00Those are his perspectives. So, if you're outside of it, then I wouldn't even care. I wouldn't care about my neighbor.
44:06If I was outside of God's law Judaism doesn't have
44:09Well, he he is Jewish. No. But but it predates him.
44:13It predates him. Jesus?
44:16Jesus. Nothing predates. Jesus.
44:17Okay. Well, entering Earth.
44:20Right? I mean Okay. Yeah.
44:20Yeah. Just from from that perspective. So he comes through a Jewish that, like, leaving it better than found, it wouldn't be an entire Christian notion.
44:26And, again, it's Who gave the lie to Jews? And I I was gonna say was like, and I will I will not get into a into a a a Christian Yeah.
44:35Debate. You will you will know more than me. And I wasn't even going there.
44:39Yeah. But okay. Let's take a religion out.
44:40Yeah. Who okay. Say you're saying, I feel bad that I broke somebody else's rules.
44:45Yeah. But what if this guy beats his wife? Mhmm.
44:49That's his rule. Like, if she acts up, she smacks the shit at her. Well, he would be breaking the government's rules and then he would get consequences from the laws of But his rules are none.
45:00So say we're outside of the country, we're in the water that, like, is no fuck. They're, like, they're outside the rock. So what I'm saying is where is your It's on a pirate ship, to be clear.
45:08Yes. We're on a pirate ship. And these pirates are ruthless.
45:11Yeah. And on this boat Yeah. He goes, hey.
45:14If my wife acts up, just smack her across the face. Yeah. Obviously, I'm not gonna do that.
45:18Yeah. Because it breaks your rules. Yeah.
45:21I see what you did there because it breaks my rules. Okay. I was just playing chess and then you're gonna have this go ahead.
45:29But what I'm saying is what happens when we grow out of the rules that we are now establishing for ourselves. Like, for example, the rules that I had for myself five years ago, I don't play by. In fact, I'm greatly ashamed by those rules.
45:41They no longer served you because they didn't get you weren't reinforced
45:44for following them. You know, I think you're asking the same thing that I was kinda asking earlier. It's like, who keeps you accountable?
45:49Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
45:50Who's the judge? And to me, that is like reality.
45:54Reality is the judge. Yeah. When I said the market, it's just like if every time I go into a room and I I I hit Leila, for example, I probably won't have many people who work for me.
46:03Layla probably also won't like me that much either. And so if I would like my like my wife to like me, I probably shouldn't hit her.
46:10So the it is a form of like you're kinda working for relationships. You're you wanna make sure that you're doing stuff for you to have things.
46:19It's it's a what is the term called? An exchange.
46:23Like gratification or like a I mean, it is your work.
46:28It's
46:29you also said that you would walk away from something that doesn't
46:32provide you that. Do. I think people and I didn't say I was gonna walk away from marriage because I have other commitments.
46:37Right? So I have rules that I follow for myself, which is if I if I say something, I will follow through with it. And if I were the type of person that wasn't that way, then I would no longer like me as much.
46:49And so, like, when you get married, I define commitment as the elimination of alternatives. Right?
46:55Like, you you have eliminated all alternatives besides your wife. That is that is the commitment. Right?
47:00And so in terms of who keeps me accountable, like, there are the rules that I that have served me in my life, and I think that I have gathered and I use the rules the the term rules loosely just as if then conditional statements.
47:15Like, if I do this, this happens. So there are these decision patterns, if you will, that I've collected, I do something that didn't work out too well, probably won't try that next time. Do something else, that works out pretty well, which is why I said, like, my overarching worldview is that I do what I do because I've been rewarded for doing so.
47:31And I've just taken a lot of action over a period of time and seen and failed a lot. And when things worked out, was like, okay. I'll do that more.
47:37And then I I it works three times out of four. I'm like, why didn't that fourth time work? Oh, it's different conditions.
47:41Okay. Sub note, if this, then tweak that.
47:45Right? And then it's just a series of of establishing these ways of behaving, our personality, right, in all these different conditions, which creates who we are.
47:54And so I would say that at a fundamental level where I would say my worldview comes against some of the more ephemeral spiritual worldviews is that I see doing as being.
48:06And so if we were to describe someone, one of the first things we say about Jesus, he was a carpenter. We say what he did. Right?
48:12If you say, want you to be more faithful to your wife, it doesn't mean anything until we describe what you need to do as a result of that. And so you cannot in my opinion, you can't be without doing.
48:26So kids are like, I love my wife, but everything I do shows that I hate her. It's like, would say that you hate your wife.
48:31And you you don't ever think that you've ever fallen short with something you've tried to achieve? Oh, yeah. Of course, I've fallen short in things that that I've tried to achieve.
48:39So would that make you that or something that just fall short?
48:44It wouldn't make me anything. It would just mean that I fell short.
48:47What I guess, well, let me take it even back. Yeah.
48:52Because you said you did a five year thing where you Yeah. Went and you read Super obsessed. And you and you studied.
48:58Hypothetically, Jesus does come down. He says, I do exist.
49:02Mhmm. Does your life change? All in.
49:04No question. You're all in.
49:06Yeah. The the creator the hold on. The creator of the universe Yes.
49:12Comes on Earth here in front of us and says, made all of this, demonstrates that. We know beyond a shadow of a doubt that this is god.
49:20You're asking, would I submit to the creator of the universe? Yes. Yes.
49:25Yes. Okay.
49:27I love this. Yeah. It's so I I I spent five years struggling with this.
49:32The dish the difficulty that I've had with the Christian faith is that I have such respect for it. Yeah. Again, I grew up in it.
49:38Right? That I have such respect for it that I think that 95 that's probably being generous.
49:4399% of people that identify as Christian aren't actually Christian. And so when I asked them, they're like, oh, I'm a Christian.
49:50I'm like, okay. So just to be clear, you believe that God became man, lived a perfect life, you know, two thousand years ago and then died for your sins and, you know, left his teachings here to encourage you to live a life like his.
50:06And so that's that's what you think. And they're like, well, I mean I mean, yeah.
50:12But I mean, I wouldn't go. So and I'm like, okay. Got it.
50:15So you're not a Christian. And so I I have such respect for it, deference for it, that like if I were to say I am a Christian, then it means that I believe that Jesus is God and all of my actions would stem from that.
50:34Now I was a born again Christian, and I did have this for a period of my life. And it did change my behavior dramatically. Whatever whatever level of motivation you think I have now, it was 10 times bigger then.
50:47And I remember having a desire to make money that was way bigger than what I have now by by orders of magnitude. I remember reading a book called Kings and Priests because I originally when I came to the faith, I think I was 22 ish, I think it was right in there.
51:05I I was like, oh, I guess I should just get into ministry. I should spread the good news.
51:10Like, this is amazing. Like, who doesn't want Jesus? This everyone needs this.
51:15And I had the the pastor I think that I was with at the time, he said, hey, read this book. And it was called Kings and Priests. And it basically said that there's different roles for people in the kingdom.
51:22And he's like, you're clearly skilled in this business stuff and you have a you have a knack for it, you have a loving for it, whatever. You should probably consider like, make the gold, donate it to the kingdom, you know, like, allow the kingdom to to flourish.
51:36And so I was like, I was very dedicated during that that season of my life, which was like, okay, how can I live on 10% donate 90? How can I like, every single day, would wake up and make an entire loaf of peanut butter sandwiches so that on my way to work, every homeless person that I saw, I could roll down the like, this sounds silly?
51:55Right? But I was 22 years old and I to put this in perspective, like, I wouldn't take my shirt off during that period when I was at, like, a pool party because I didn't want the other guys to feel bad.
52:07Again, not in an arrogant way at all. I was like, I just don't want was like, they will feel worse. Yeah.
52:11I was like, will feel worse. And who am I serving here? Mhmm.
52:14Am serving my ego by taking my shirt off? Like, what am I you know what I mean? And so, I was 100% all in, 100% submitted to to Jesus, to to to God during that season.
52:30And there's a number of of reasons that I that I fall away from that. But I define belief as acting as if.
52:42And that seems like it's like pretend but it it did I don't mean it like that. It's more that if I were to if an alien comes on earth, doesn't know anything, and I were to describe a true Christian's behavior so they could say, ah, this is a Christian, then they would behave behave as if Jesus was the son of God and died for their sins.
53:07And again, I'm not saying there is no salvation through acts. I understand that. But if you really when it in in the bible, it's it's truly changing your heart.
53:18Right? Which I see from a literal sense as changing your global reinforcer. Is that when I was in this period, all acts I took was pleasing my father.
53:29And so all I could think about was pleasing him. I cared nothing for man.
53:38I cared for man to please my father, not because I cared about what the other man thought. And so I would say that a large percentage of behaviors that I learned in that period of time is how I act now.
53:53And I think the reason that of all world faiths that exist, the one that has always had a stronger pull for me, that Christianity has been the one that has always had a stronger pull for me, is because it's the own like, this is an I do not mean this is no in no way am I trying to insult anyone's faith, to be very clear.
54:13Like, the vast majority of religions, when summarized, could be determined in could be could be summarized into, if you do good things, you will go to the good place.
54:25And if you do bad things, you go to the bad place. They are workspace faiths. The difficulty with workspace faiths is that when you're 51% good or 49% bad, if I held one more door open for an old lady, I go to eternal bliss and one less door open, then I go to eternal damnation, which also seems like an incredibly man made construct of you live a finite life and have infinite punishment for it or infinite or infinite good place.
54:51So the only only faith that that doesn't have that, there's there's two that I would consider. There's Christianity and there's Buddhism. Buddhism's, I would say, less faith.
55:00It's it's considered a faith, but it's different. I would whatever. But because Christianity acknowledges that that's a it's a silly game and you'll never win.
55:09You'll never be perfect ever. And so it's only through acknowledgment that you will never succeed at being good enough to merit eternal paradise.
55:23That only through admitting that you'll never be good enough can you gain salvation. That made a lot of sense to me.
55:29I was like, yeah. This this this is the only way it could actually to me, was the only way that made sense, which is I think one of the the postulates of CS Lewis in Mere Christianity that that most deeply resonated with me.
55:39I like, makes a lot of sense.
55:41And so I know I went down a rabbit hole there. But No. I and by the way, I every single one sentence you said, it's fell in my heart, and I have so many things I'd like to share with you.
55:51Yeah. Because this walk that you have is, bro, like, I can't tell you, man, like, how many times it's left my lips.
55:59Like, your heart posture right now is an honest one. And I'll hang myself out to dry. I know I am known as a Christian, but I've looked up at God and I had some pretty serious questions for him.
56:09And you know what? There wasn't one he left off the table. So, there's a few things I wanna say off of what you said.
56:15And, I'll make it very quick. I don't wanna be in a tangent.
56:19Many many will say, Lord, Lord, haven't I done this and haven't I done that? And what does he say to them? He says, depart from me.
56:25I never knew you. Mhmm. Revelations.
56:27No?
56:28I'll chew you out. You were lukewarm? Is that the is that around the same passage?
56:32This one's in Matthew. Okay. He's basically describing
56:36how there's gonna be a lot of people, that 95 that we talk about Yeah. The percent, that says, I'm a Christian Yeah.
56:42But did not care for their neighbors. They didn't care for God's will. Now, you said kings and priests.
56:48Mhmm. I wanna circle back to another thing in the gospel. There's a parable and this king forgives this man's debt.
56:55Mhmm. And the guy runs. He's excited.
56:58The first person he goes to is a man who owes him debt. He goes, give me my debt. The guy says, I don't have it.
57:04Now, the king could have sentenced him to death or jail, maybe even both. The guy who didn't have anything, he that man who left the king beat that man senseless.
57:16And so, one of the guards goes, do you know that guy you let go of? He went after another man. So, they bring him back and he goes, why do you not live as if you're free and that you can make others free?
57:27That is where I'm from. When I realized, like you realized that, well, hold on. Am I doing this for me or am I doing this for everybody else?
57:35Mhmm. Where I'm positioned now is, as I get to do it, I know who I really am.
57:41Only you know who you really are. We could turn on these cameras all day we could say the finest things and we could put it in the most beautiful ways and people could be set back but we could also be wolves in sheep's clothing.
57:54Now, that being said, I wanna ask you a question.
58:01You said that you studied it but there is a few things. I would like to go like hand in hand with you, not because of this podcast, bro, just because I really do think that you and I I pray are gonna be great friends, but as much as I would be around you and probably ask you for wisdom to be a better businessman, I I pray that you'd feel comfortable with me to to ask me things about the gospel or in a spiritual sense.
58:27So, I'm not here to to shame or point or say, my life is better than yours. I mean, if we're counting it from an earthly perspective, you're wildly whipping my ass over here, bro. So, it's not like that at all.
58:38What is a what was one thing that was hard for you to wrestle with when it comes to really believing that there is an actual man named Jesus that died for us?
58:48I would say that
58:51there are there are two.
58:56I would say there are many, but I would say the two largest are I have a hard I just I have a hard time believing that the infinite creator of the universe came on Earth two thousand years ago and died for arsons and then rose from the dead and ascended to heaven.
59:24I just have there's just it's very difficult for me to believe it. And I like I went to a Christian therapist during this period of time because it was such a such a struggle for me.
59:34And after a handful of sessions, looked she at me and she said, Alex, I think you just need to make a decision.
59:41And it was Sounds like she's trying to wrap it up. Yeah. She was like she was like, I am That's so terrible.
59:47Big birthday. I am not getting paid enough. Hey,
59:51buddy. Our time's up. Yeah.
59:52Figure it out. Yeah. And
59:54so and so she was like, well, which one do you really believe in your heart of hearts? And I was like, in my heart of hearts, I just don't believe it.
1:00:00I was like, I really wish I did. Dude, I I love that you said that. Uh, Alright.
1:00:03I'm gonna bring up another verse. There was a Lazarus dead homeboy.
1:00:09Yeah. Homeboy. Right?
1:00:10Yeah. Five days for that miracle to happen. Right?
1:00:13Okay. We got the disciples. They're pissed.
1:00:16Jesus, our feet hurt. We're exhausted. He's always telling them, hold up.
1:00:21It's coming. Yeah. There's one miracle in the Bible that happens like this.
1:00:26Mhmm. You know who it was? There was a man that came up to Jesus and says, I don't believe this.
1:00:31Mhmm. Could you give me the faith to believe it? Mhmm.
1:00:35Then Jesus bestows him faith. Mhmm. Jesus also says that I am the vine and you are the fruit.
1:00:41Apart from me, we can't do anything. So, when you say, I believe Mhmm. When you were walking with Jesus Mhmm.
1:00:47Did you ever ask him, hey, like, I'm seeing this on the table. Mhmm. My eyes are looking at it.
1:00:53You say whoever has eyes and wants to see Mhmm. And I want to see. Yeah.
1:00:59You find yourself in a position where you just didn't want to see it? No. I think I desperately wanted to see.
1:01:05Desperately wanted to see. Yeah. I mean, was a very arduous search for many years.
1:01:11So okay. Now I have follow-up questions. Yeah.
1:01:13You're very analytical. So everything you see, you study it. So I'm assuming when you say, uh, the crucifixion to me, it's hard to believe.
1:01:21Mhmm. Did did you, by any chance, like, look at like, Caesar was in his time. Right?
1:01:27Yeah. He had, like, There's two historical documentation and yeah.
1:01:30There's 25,000
1:01:32of Jesus. Yeah. No.
1:01:33Like, The Case for Christ, which you I don't if you've read that. Yeah. Uh, it's a awesome No.
1:01:37I haven't read it. Oh, it's a really it's it's the premise is there's an atheist, um, trial attorney who's really famous, and he goes to, um, disprove Christ.
1:01:48And so he goes on this search to look at the historical documents and disprove it and makes a case against Christ. But in the process of making the case against Christ, he becomes a believer.
1:01:58And so I read his book and I was like, I get all of this. I just still don't believe.
1:02:04Believe.
1:02:05Is this is it a I'm so sorry. No. No.
1:02:08Is it an inner feeling
1:02:10thing? And I know that you're very much not about feelings. No.
1:02:13It's not that I'm not about feelings. I think it's it's it's it's a question of
1:02:18do these feelings serve me? How do I translate these feelings into what I'm going to do? And do those actions increase the likelihood that what I wanna have happen is gonna happen?
1:02:26I'm I'm translating this into, like, very literal terms because otherwise, I say, like, you know, if it just feels good, I do. It's just like that doesn't mean anything to me. No.
1:02:33No. No. That's that's why why I talk this way in this very literal sense, but it's so that there's no miscommunication when I'm saying it.
1:02:38Totally. Totally. And I don't even mean that way.
1:02:40I mean, in the way of, like, that that absolute because you were a Christian for a few years and you're saying your mom is Probably about a year. Okay. Okay.
1:02:47So Oh, that's why. I'm saying this Yeah. You're like That's gonna be twenty four months.
1:02:50Bro. You didn't You hit the threshold. That design churn.
1:02:54You churn. Yeah. Yeah.
1:02:55But that inner locking feeling, because I think, like, I did not grow up up Christian Yeah. And not have faith before no. I did not.
1:03:01You didn't? Okay. I did not.
1:03:02And I found faith in my early twenties. I feel like the seed was planted when was 16, but it took me time. Right?
1:03:07And for me, what kept me for a long time, even though I had people in my life that showed me that proof, was that inner knowing of truly believing what Jesus did, that Jesus is real, and that he is god.
1:03:19It was that, like, really understanding. And so it wasn't until I mean, that's a different story. So I I was wondering where you stood, if that's kinda how it was where you felt like maybe there wasn't a point for you where you ever really truly
1:03:31surrendered yourself to Jesus. Oh, no. I'm a 100% surrendered.
1:03:34I was all in. Yeah. There's no question.
1:03:36I was a 100% believer through and through. So what was it okay. But hold To me, it's I'm having a hard time understanding that.
1:03:43How could you be 100%,
1:03:44but at the same time doubt
1:03:46Jesus' existence? I would say, one, I think that that many Christians speak about their doubts while they are still believers.
1:03:56What is your form of Christianity? So we don't lose each other here. Evangelical
1:04:02No. No. I'm losing What makes a man a Christian man?
1:04:04Oh. Oh. Oh.
1:04:07That he would act in accordance to wishes. That's not at all what the gospel describes. Because if that was the case, we're all I'm
1:04:15again, I'm describing it the way that I would describe it now. Got it. If you were to ask me then, I would say that there his heart has been transformed by Christ and he's given his life to the Lord.
1:04:24Right? And he's completely submitted and Jesus is his king. I think that being a Christian is believing
1:04:30in Jesus. That's it. Sure.
1:04:32So falling short is not is a part of the process of it. And this is where,
1:04:36like, when I said I had two things. Right? There's lots of small ones.
1:04:39It's like, okay. Of all the planets on the earth, is there a Jesus in in Neptune's 27 that also showed up there to, like, save all the, you know, Ewoks or whatever? I don't know.
1:04:49I don't either. Yeah. Right.
1:04:51I I'm not against that, though. No. No.
1:04:53Yeah. I mean, that was that was my at me for saying that, but I'm like, dude, there's no way he was just waiting around for a billion years. Yeah.
1:04:58Trillions of years. He's like, alright. Now humans are like, you know what mean?
1:05:01Like my It's big pitch. Yeah. Yeah.
1:05:02He was definitely creating things before that. Yeah. Like But the so I described the the false binary that
1:05:09acts creates, which is that you could be 51% good, 49% bad, and then creates this this this area right in the middle that one more action would have taken you to either forever bad or forever good. Right? So I think to the same degree, belief has the same continuum and false binary, which is like either believe or you don't believe.
1:05:29I believe that belief is a continuum. It's how hard do you believe? How much do you believe?
1:05:33So, okay. Where where did your belief cease to stop? Like, because you're saying I was all in.
1:05:39Yeah. So was there a point in your life? Say that I was all the way here and then over time, it eroded until eventually, I went through more and more struggles, talked to this person for I know, read more and more books, and then eventually was like, alright.
1:05:52I guess I just don't believe. But in that process, you did believe that Jesus Christ died and rose again? Yeah.
1:05:58One point. And then then you started feeling like, wait a second. This does it.
1:06:02And again and I would like I do not espouse or like or or or preach my worldview at all.
1:06:16Like, I almost reluctantly, which is what I said at the very beginning of this podcast with you is like, I people see that I'm successful by whatever measure, you know, materially successful to a degree.
1:06:30Um, I'm in relatively good shape. Um, I have a good, you know, relatively good marriage. Um, and they see that and they're like, tell me what you think about the world.
1:06:39And I would say, like, if whatever you're doing is working for you, by all means, please keep doing that.
1:06:46I only share what what my my path for the people who it it didn't work as well for. No.
1:06:54I don't even think you should be ashamed of that. Less Well, ashamed more like I just don't I'd like I'm not I'm not saying follow me. And I'm not saying like do what I did.
1:07:03I'm saying this is what I did. Do whatever you want. This is why I'm I'm a big believer in no shoulds.
1:07:09Like, I'm not saying you should do this or shouldn't do that. I'm saying this is what I did. That's all.
1:07:13Do do you feel because you help so many people in business that you feel like when you speak about spirituality or your faith Mhmm. That you feel like because that's your brand that people pick up their, like, whatever they're doing and follow you? Do you feel like you get uncomfortable speaking about things like this because you don't wanna slap it as if you are, hey, like, telling them.
1:07:32And we're not getting that vibe from you at all. I don't consider myself an authority. I Yeah.
1:07:36I You hear that boys? Extra lunch break tonight. No.
1:07:42Like, I've and I've never really purported to be one. I I'm decent at breaking down concepts and trying to define terms in ways that I understand them.
1:07:52And typically, if I define things in a way I understand them, other people understand them too, which is why, like, even attacking attacking, I use it in literal literal. I'm breaking down, like, belief. Yeah.
1:08:03Um, it's like, okay. Well, what does belief mean?
1:08:07Yeah. How do I believe? What does that mean?
1:08:11Like, really?
1:08:12Yeah. Show me belief. I had this conversation with, uh, with another genius, like and by the way, like, I you know what I find fascinating?
1:08:20The smarter person that I sit down with, the more complex. We're we're we're very choosy with our words.
1:08:27Yeah. Yeah. That's so funny because you meet a dumb person just throwing out all the words.
1:08:31And you're like, my man, stick to one thing, dude. Nobody even talks about that, a babbling fool. So Yeah.
1:08:36Yep. So by the way, we appreciate your presence. Like, we really do.
1:08:40And and there's a lot of wisdom to be learned from. Uh, so we don't ever take it in the way that you you were worried about it at all, like zero. And sorry.
1:08:50I I find it but belief. Okay. Believe to me is a lot of people think that it's like certainty.
1:08:59Like, belief to me is weighing out what I have in front of me and knowing, okay, this is where my faith belongs to.
1:09:11So I believe that God exists but I can't sit across from you Mhmm. And prove his existence.
1:09:19But, I could examine through the patterns of this world. Mhmm. To me, the most peaceful and joyful not need humans I've ever met Mhmm.
1:09:28Were ones who had Christ at the center of their life. Agree a 100%. Okay.
1:09:32So let's dissect that. Yeah. If that's true, don't you think there is a Thousand percent agree.
1:09:37Why
1:09:38do you think I started getting into it? So Why why do you think I pursued the path?
1:09:45If if that's the case, you feel that, then wouldn't you say that it's not that you didn't find God, it's the sad truth is you just didn't find God's people, man. And I Well, I think that's totally true because I would say that I think when I I'm trying to think. When did I come?
1:10:01I think I came across somewhere I think it was Nashville. I could be wrong. But when I went back to Baltimore, is where I was from and then it ultimately worked, I wasn't really plugged into any real, quote, call it Christian community.
1:10:15So was very much alone for that most of that whole period. Um, and I just basically spent my time, like, in books trying to, like, keep my faith muscle strong. Yeah.
1:10:23Um, and I think, again, I've hundreds of tiny things. And I also it's like I even there's a lot of times where I don't even wanna bring up the doubts that I have because if if it if it leads one person astray, I don't wanna be the cause of that.
1:10:38like Did you you're you're a Christian. You're a c I a I have to say this to you, my man, but you you might be more efficient than me.
1:10:46Dude, he's wiping down tables, not taking his shirt off. Man, his body I wouldn't own a shirt. That would be everywhere.
1:10:52Well, I'd say that if the way I behave now, I do take my shirt off sometimes. And so, you know I'm not a Christian anymore. Yeah.
1:10:58Yeah. But it's funny that even when we do that, it's that you describe it by actions. Right?
1:11:02What what I The the What to know that I was a Christian by what I do. Yes. Because you shall know them by their fruit.
1:11:07Right. If I taste your fruit if I walk around, that's not a there's so many clips to this stuff. Like, Okay.
1:11:16I tasted the fruit from your garden, I feel like that's even getting worse. Man produces fruit.
1:11:23Every woman produces fruit and you you you receive them and you eat them. Okay. I just okay.
1:11:28I'm just gonna move on. Yeah. But Do you observe what I do?
1:11:31Yeah. If if I hang out with you, the fruits that I'm gonna get from you as a businessman, bro, I'm not gonna get it from hanging out with my boy smoking weed on the couch playing Fortnite. If I hang out with you for one day, one month, one year, it's all gonna change.
1:11:45Why? Because when , something comes out of it sharper or duller.
1:11:51It's never gonna be just the same as it is. So, if I hang out with you, I'm gonna come out being like, wow, I feel really good about my business. Okay.
1:11:58That being said, if you all hang out with real Christians Mhmm. Then Christ itself would diminish.
1:12:05That's why it's way worse for a man to wield the name Christian and not act like Christ like. And then when you said, but we're basing it off of our acts, I I understand that's like where everybody like, even I ask Christians all that, why are you going to heaven? They go, oh, because I'm a good guy.
1:12:21I do this. No. Right.
1:12:22That's yeah. We're close. We agree.
1:12:23That's not like that's not how it works. Exactly.
1:12:26Within the tenet of the Christian faith Yes. Yeah. Yes.
1:12:29Through the worldview that I have, the only way you can know whether someone believes something is how they behave. Amen. And then, of course, it's like, well, that's your personal relationship with Christ.
1:12:38Only you're gonna know. Fine. Like, basically I disagree with that, and a lot of people say that.
1:12:43Sure. So, like, there's a lot of people that claim with their mouth a lot of things, but they're not, bro. Yeah.
1:12:48Their actions don't be reality. So I do base people off of their actions Yeah. On what their actual beliefs are.
1:12:53Yeah. I we agree a 100% on that. Well, what's interesting about what you said, you know, you said you were pretty alone during that season.
1:12:59Yeah. And I just watched my pastor's sermon this past week. Maybe this was for you.
1:13:03I don't know. Yeah. But it's the same thing back to the fruits.
1:13:06Right? Yeah. So your faith is a seed.
1:13:08And when god gives you when he puts the holy spirit in you for the first time when you're a new believer, it's like a seed, and the seed is brand new. Now the holy spirit's in you, but what are you gonna do with it?
1:13:18Not because of your own works, but are you gonna surround yourself with good soil, with sunlight, with water? You're gonna feed the seeds so that it can flourish versus, right, if it's in a bad environment, it's gonna die and it's not gonna go anywhere. But from his his perspective
1:13:31and what he shared, he did do that. In in in the way where he says I was trying to keep that muscle growing. And he was He felt you had a community of people?
1:13:39No. I didn't. The one thing that he said.
1:13:40And and a thousand percent also in terms of my my current worldview. Yeah. Um, like, if you wanna change someone's behavior, change their environment.
1:13:47Right. Right? Like,
1:13:50if I, for example, went to let's say I I moved to into a town where there's a 100% true Christians is the only people that live in this town. Let's just imagine this hypothetical. And I have no way of reaching or leaving for whatever reason, the likelihood that I would become a Christian or that I would self identify as a Christian, I think would go up dramatically.
1:14:13But then I get into the question of like, okay, well, if whether I move into that environment or not or I get born into that environment or whatever, that has a huge weight on whether I am eternally damned or eternally in salvation.
1:14:34And that brings up a question of free will that, again, I would say that I alright.
1:14:45Well, through it. I I actually have a hard time with free will. Because free will presupposes that we're at a 100% control of all of our actions.
1:14:57And you can prove that that's not true because you can change people's behavior by moving and and manipulating the variables in their environment. And so I think there's oftentimes the illusion of choice more than there is the actuality of choice.
1:15:10And so even if we agree that a 1% change can occur in someone's behavior through influence, then it means that it's just a gradient, which means that there's a chance that we have a 100% control. If you have a 100% control of someone's behavior, then they do not have free will.
1:15:22And so when you get into this argument of like, okay, well, okay, if I do believe we can influence, if you can influence, you control. If you can control, then the whole concept around this choice for eternal salvation might not be as individual as we
1:15:38as we have framed it to be. May I dissect that backwards? Yeah.
1:15:42What if you're freeing Christ? And that way, when you are freeing Christ, you'll be able to see when people are manipulating you. For example, you'll be able to see what the world could posture towards your heart.
1:15:51I think every man is either Cain or Abel. I think one is with the world and one was with God. And so, that there's only two doors and a lot of people think there's multiple doors.
1:16:01But, the truth is God made two doors. It's either heaven or hell. What the devil did is multiplied many doors Mhmm.
1:16:08And made you feel like you had the option of choosing which one you want to go to. For you, it's business. For me, it's lust.
1:16:14But, when we open up that door, it's hell. Why? Because we chose something that we thought is greater than God.
1:16:22And so, then when we submit ourselves and our own knowing So, when he says deny yourself, that means deny everything that you think that you know.
1:16:32Mhmm. And, when he says deny yourself, it even for example, my mom says, you should be proud of your Assyrian. And, I said, a Syrian is great but I must deny even my Assyrian roots so I could stand naked before God and with a clean slate and a clean palette and say, what is it that you called me to be?
1:16:51And through that is where freedom which he promises obtains. But you were saying that freedom of choice is not true.
1:16:58I I agree. Mhmm. But they chose to be a slave to that when I chose to serve God.
1:17:05So Now the question you said I wanna even bring it back to you saying Yeah. The place that you're you're at.
1:17:12For example, if I was born in The Middle East Sure. I might be Muslim. Yeah.
1:17:16Fair.
1:17:17To that, I would say what the gospel says, I will measure them for what they know. Right. Which So that's it's different because a lot Which is tough because it gets pretty close to I'll measure them if they're a good person.
1:17:27What does that mean? So, we take our Amazonian tribe that's never heard anything about Jesus. Yeah.
1:17:33Right? They die. Yeah.
1:17:35God measures them based on what? What they know.
1:17:40Which is zero.
1:17:42That's not true. So, me give an example. If they don't know anything, then they're just sitting paralyzed looking at the sky.
1:17:48That's So, you're saying what they know of the world? Well, no. I mean, let me give an example.
1:17:51For you right now, if you are leaving a place better than what it is, you are acting Christ like. So if you did not know who Christ is and then for reject Christ Mhmm. That's different than a man receiving it and then rejecting it versus somebody who's never received it and then never rejected it.
1:18:10Mhmm. So, I think that my God's merciful enough to know that this man in the jungle Mhmm. Didn't have Clifford Stewart come and throw out a podcast for him to know Oh, that is that a Chrisha podcast?
1:18:20Okay. Yeah. For them to know.
1:18:23But what he did see while he was down there with his little mud palette Yeah. He said, hey, when it was raining, he invited his neighbors to come here. But that sounds like he's getting measured by his axe.
1:18:32I think he's being measured by what he what he had. I think that's different. But I still I would still say, like, that's measuring by acts.
1:18:38Or his his knowledge would you say it's measured on his knowledge of Christ?
1:18:41No. I I assume it's zero I I not for the for the example. I I just think it's it
1:18:49we can't limit God. So, if we say, hey, God picks and choose who's going that's why I always tell people when like, a lot of Christians like to throw out who's gonna be saved and who's not gonna be saved. I could Is that a thing?
1:19:01Oh my god. Every time we're in the parking lot of a church sermon, they're like, that guy's going to hell. That guy's going to heaven.
1:19:07And I'm just like, yo, my man. That's not how it works. Billy Graham has this funny interview.
1:19:13It was right when the president got in trouble for cheating on his wife and but he was he still sat there at the table. And so they pulled him aside, they go, hey, how could you sit with a man who behaves like that?
1:19:26Oh, that's silly. And he leans over, he says, the father judges, Jesus loves, the spirit comforts.
1:19:36We were asked to act like Jesus but everybody's trying to do all three. Judging is like falling on your own sword.
1:19:45When you look at somebody and judge, you're truly wielding something that doesn't belong to you. Like for example, if I look at a man and be like, how could My mom used to always say this, this is a perfect example. Don't let God put you in a position for you to know the question you don't wanna answer.
1:20:00Like, for example, we look at somebody who's a drug addict in the street. Why would this guy throw away his life and do this? My my my mom would say, don't put don't let God put you in that man's shoes for you to feel Is she Christian?
1:20:14That was gonna be a good joke. Yes. Yeah.
1:20:16She's very Christian. Was gonna be like, no. Super atheist.
1:20:18Yeah. Is your whole family is your whole family Christian? Yes.
1:20:21Yeah. Oh, that's cool. Like, genuine Christian?
1:20:23Yeah. Like, uh, well, you know They're the 5%, not the 95. They are They're gonna watch this.
1:20:29They've always put God first. But when I kinda grew up as a man and I said, hey, you know, we try so hard with our business, we try so hard with our relationships, and I think we could try harder with Christ.
1:20:42I think we could read a little bit more. I think we could, you know, submit our life a little bit more. And dude, none of them rejected it.
1:20:49They all jumped on it. So I do believe that they are actually the real Christians. But I think the difference between a real Christian and a fake Christian is this, and this is just my perspective.
1:20:57Again, I'm not a teacher either. Um, I think one is is just Cain and Abel, man. One is like, god, there's nothing that I could do that's good enough for you.
1:21:06And the other one's like, piss off. Like, I've done as not as much as I can. You know, like and I think that's the posture of a heart of a real Christian man.
1:21:14If any Christian man goes up to God and starts listing what he's done for God, he's not a Christian. If you're not standing before God and truly being at awe for what he's done, if you open up the book to look for yourself, you're not a Christian. If you open up the book to look for Jesus, you're a Christian.
1:21:30That's kind of like but again, who am I to call? You know what mean?
1:21:33Like, because my behavior ten years ago, if I looked at that man, I'd be like pagan. And he wasn't a Christian. This guy's for sure going to hell.
1:21:40And ten years ago, you weren't a Christian the way you are now. Correct? I was.
1:21:42I was walking around calling myself a Christian. But you wouldn't but you were I was the guy that you bumped into that made you run away from the face.
1:21:49Yeah. But like but but you get but but by your definition, would you say that you were a Christian then?
1:21:56I would say I was the 95, what you said. Right. So so
1:21:59many of you will say you knew me. Right? But you didn't.
1:22:02That's when I was walking around. Right. Yeah.
1:22:04It's so kind of interesting. So, like, you've only how many so how when is it that you recommitted your life to Christ? See, I wouldn't even wanna say recommitted.
1:22:11It's kinda like a relationship with your wife. Right? Okay.
1:22:13There's a time where she's like just giving you inadequate
1:22:16relationship Okay. Amounts, you know?
1:22:19Like and then there's she's like, wow, I really realize what I have and I'm gonna step up and really show Alex how much I love him. Same person, one's eyes were opened.
1:22:29So I always loved God and I always chased God, but God had to put me in a hole for me to have nothing but him. Mhmm. And then I realized, I'm like, oh, wow.
1:22:36This is so much more peaceful. Actually, that's actually something I wanna bring up to you. When I was on impulsive Mhmm.
1:22:41It was a dream. I I couldn't believe it. Like Yeah.
1:22:44It was everything my heart desired. I was on stages performing, hanging on my friends, making money, but I didn't have any peace, like zero, and that shocked me because I was like, dude, how did I have more peace flipping burgers at Five Guys than I do now?
1:23:00It did not make sense. And I tried to calculate it, tried to see the patterns, watched videos on how people are talking, listened to Tony Robbins looking at all these things, and then I brought it to God and I said, well, why I don't understand.
1:23:11Why is this guy more peaceful than this guy? This guy's broke and has nothing going on for him and this guy's very successful. And God made it very clear, this man thought about me more.
1:23:20This man thought about God. I think I think Jesus is life and life more abundantly.
1:23:28Now, I look at myself, I don't see myself as a Christian or non Christian, I see myself as a cup. One was kind of empty running dry and Jesus kept having to refill it. If you were the 95% though
1:23:39in that season Yeah. Calling yourself a Christian but not really acting as one Yeah.
1:23:46Like we said earlier, if you had died then, not not now, right, or in the future, assuming behavior stays the same, etcetera, where do you think you would have gone then?
1:23:57I think God is all knowing. Mhmm. So, think that it's his right to judge
1:24:01Okay. On on how it how it plays out. But Based on what we were saying earlier, if the 95, most of them would be people he'd be like It's hard.
1:24:09You did not know that. It's hard because I see it as kind of like
1:24:12a seed that was planted but just wasn't producing fruit. It was there. It's kinda like that.
1:24:18Right? It didn't produce fruit but it started producing fruit. You can see how I would say like from
1:24:24a pure like, us talking about a perspective, it's playing both sides. I would say that I would go to hell. Okay.
1:24:30Yeah. You know what it reminds me of? I would say I would agree with you from your perspective.
1:24:34Yeah. I'd
1:24:36agree with you after hanging out with you for an hour.
1:24:38For sure going out. From your from more your worldview, if that if your worldview is true in that period, I would agree. And that's that would be the perspective that I had as a Christian.
1:24:47The only reason I agree with that
1:24:49and and it's hard for me to say that because it's, like, scary. I just threw myself hypothetically. Dude, the comments are gonna nuts.
1:24:54Yeah. Right? Oh, bro.
1:24:55They do. All the time. I stopped I stopped caring about that a long time because it's eating me up.
1:25:00Was changing how I felt. Jesus was on his way to Jerusalem and there was one time where he gets really mad and he curses down a fig tree.
1:25:08Do you remember the start of the the I dude, I used to giggle at this all the time because I used to look at it from a comedic standpoint. How about my man turned two fish into 45 and he's getting pissed at a tree and submitting it down to the ground.
1:25:23And all of his disciples are in the back, like, yo, Jesus. You good, bro? What's going on?
1:25:26Why are so angry? You know? But I figured out why he was angry.
1:25:29When he ruffled his fingers through the leaves of the fig tree, there was no produced fruit, And, he curses the fig tree all the way down to the ground and it dies. Then, he goes to Jerusalem where it is mirrored as a priest, as a fig tree and producing fruit is spiritual.
1:25:47So, that was dressed like the Pharisees. Yeah. A lot of people would be dressed as if they have a lot of fruit Right.
1:25:53Which I believe you've bumped into. And then, when you go and you taste their fruit and you're like, yo, this is whack. After eating enough whack fruit, you're gonna start believing that the source is whack.
1:26:05I actually didn't fall away because of meeting false Christians. I think I could recognize that pretty Okay. Pretty easily.
1:26:12I came because of true Christians and I would say that I left because of my own beliefs and struggles that I had to to in earnest say that I believed a 100%.
1:26:25And I think you said something earlier about people think belief is certainty. That to me, like certainty would be 100% belief.
1:26:32And then there is like high conviction, which would be like 90% belief. And I think that people sit on this spectrum. And I think part of the reason that I've had difficulty with the Christian faith, and this is the second point, is that if you can have works that are a 100 to zero in terms of good guy, bad guy.
1:26:52And if you're at 49 or 51, to the same degree belief can be on that same continuum. And to what degree, like, when do when when have you known God enough?
1:27:04How much belief is enough to go to heaven?
1:27:11A belief worth changing for.
1:27:14I don't know what that means.
1:27:16Simon, who's renamed Peter, got crucified upside down.
1:27:20Mhmm. I would assume he really believed. Yeah.
1:27:24I'd agree. And I think that, you know, there's Assyrians recently that when they're on their knees with swords on them and they'll say, hey, say denounce Jesus or we'll cut your head off.
1:27:35Mhmm. And they say, no. To me, that's belief.
1:27:38I don't believe it in a spectrum of like the 95 or five or Mhmm. Four or five. I think belief is kinda like love.
1:27:46It's it's ever growing,
1:27:48but it's not measured within numbers. So this is the and this I would say fundamentally, we we get into the difficulty that I have in general. You need see the numbers.
1:27:56Well, not to the numbers, but just like when we define words in big terms and we make equivalencies, it's like I you know, belief is love.
1:28:04It's like all of a sudden, it's like we're in this this world of all these words that Could you measure love? Yeah. Oh.
1:28:11Which is how much are you willing to do to maintain something? If I love if you love like, what are you willing to give, sacrifice, in order to keep something?
1:28:20So, like, for example, that's how I feel about Jesus. Like You're willing to give everything, your life. Yeah.
1:28:25There are soldiers who love their country and are willing to give everything, life for it. So, I would say that they love their country. I love my wife.
1:28:31I'm willing to give my life for my wife. Okay. So, you just ran into a a place where you're like, oh, I just don't believe it at the level Right.
1:28:38And do I do I like people less than my wife? Yes. That I'm willing to give something for?
1:28:43Yes. Am I willing to give my life for? No.
1:28:45But there are things and people that I'm willing to give my life for. And so, again, I do believe that there is a continuum that we can describe.
1:28:55And I think that it makes it significantly more convenient to chunk up to vague language because you'll you'll get amens and nods in the audience because it sounds good, you know.
1:29:10But I I live in defining the amorphous. Like, this is what I had spent my time doing and I believe that all things we can translate into like, what does this mean?
1:29:21Like, if I say, you know, you look at your kid and you're like, I need you to love her. He doesn't know what that means or she doesn't know what that means the first time they hear it. You have to then describe what love is and you describe it in actions.
1:29:31And then eventually, you say the word love and it's just like dribbling in basketball, it means all of these behaviors. Now, I measure love by how much I'm willing to give up to maintain something.
1:29:41If a friend moves away from close by, let's say I'm friends with my neighbor, he moves far away. If I stay in touch with that friend, I'm willing to basically incur more cost in order to in order to maintain that relationship.
1:29:53I love that or like that friend more. I see it as same continuum. Whereas, if they move away and I'm not willing to be inconvenienced anymore, then I don't like them that much.
1:30:03If they're here, cost me less and so I'm willing to do And so I think, again, all of this sits on a continuum of how much I'm willing to give in order to maintain something. And if you're willing to to give up your life in order to maintain your relationship with Christ, then you I would say, you're willing to give everything and that's amazing.
1:30:17And so I think love, if we're using love as belief, but I don't necessarily think they're equivalent, think acting as if would be belief, then there is a spectrum and this is where I struggled.
1:30:28I just meant the measurement. Yeah. And I was saying but those those are both continuums, the love continuum, the belief continuum.
1:30:34And people sit on different ones for different things. Like, I'll give you the the most basic example. There's probably a country on Earth that if I said, you know, Caracas.
1:30:48Right? It's the capital of of Brazil.
1:30:53Right? Or it's the capital of Venezuela. Maybe the Venezuela one you're like, okay.
1:31:01I think that I think that is the capital of Venezuela. And I'd be like, if you get it wrong, she dies.
1:31:08No. How how much do you believe? That like, you know, like, think it's that.
1:31:12It's like, yeah. How much? Are you willing to bet everything you have on it?
1:31:16Yeah. Probably not.
1:31:18But you you're willing to say, I I think it's that. And so there are degrees of belief, and I think the same exists here. And this is I I agree.
1:31:25This is where I'm I'm saying and to be and, like, I struggle with this because, like, I I don't wanna make a convincing argument. No. No.
1:31:31Which why I'm saying is is because I don't want to change change. What you're saying. I want I'm like, do whatever you're doing.
1:31:37No. It makes total sense. I agree.
1:31:39I I a 100% agree with what you're saying. I think that's why there's a lot of fake Christians because they get up to that point where you're like, would you die for it? Yeah.
1:31:46And and not even dude, dude. There's a lot of people that say that they would die for Christ when they don't even live for Christ. Sure.
1:31:52It's so much Bar, by Better. Dude, you just made that clip so much better.
1:31:58And then it cuts to me eating his fruit. I'm like, damn it.
1:32:02I want that in the video. But I think that's the truth of it.
1:32:07And so I would actually like to push back on you, and this is my first pushback on Oh, good.
1:32:13I don't believe that you believed in Jesus with all your heart. I think that you were wrong. I like to build a relationship with you off of this and sit with you and if you would let me Yeah.
1:32:26Pray with you on this. And I know that's very uncomfortable because you kinda, like, just let it go. Mhmm.
1:32:32But I I love you, dude. And and I know that we just met, but I really care about you and I and I care about your mission.
1:32:38Mhmm. But, if I had to listen to your words Mhmm. Or Christ's words, I would assume his is I would tell you to listen to Christ's So when Jesus said that the good works that I start in you, will finish.
1:32:50Mhmm. And so he says there
1:32:52that if you are a Christian, you can't fade away off of being a Christian. And if that is the case, then I am already saved. I've been yeah.
1:33:01Then then I am already saved. I I If that is true. And my mother will be thrilled.
1:33:05Can I put a
1:33:07a hope and a prayer out there? Sure. Dude, I like I envision and I and I'm gonna be praying on my knees every day for this.
1:33:15But I pray that there's an encounter that you have, bro Mhmm. That is mathematically, it's above your understanding.
1:33:24Like, it's so far past measurement that it's no need for the the conversation of if or not.
1:33:32Yeah. So, I'll becoming Paul.
1:33:34Yeah, man. And, dude, I just wanna let you know, like, I've had the privilege of sitting down with a lot of cool people and this man, this conversation is you you have me wanting to go back and meditate and and and assess myself. God says, always be ready to have a good answer and you have such a thought out perspective.
1:33:53I did not come prepared enough to to dish back to you what I feel is worthy enough for you to ponder.
1:34:02So the only thing I could do is petition a prayer. Well done, man. You got me.
1:34:07Oh, no. No. No.
1:34:08I'm giving up my faith now.
1:34:13I would have given my life during that period of time for Christ. I still think you're on the journey, man. Don't don't side question me.
1:34:20I know you're still on the journey, bro. You know why I know you're still on the journey? Why?
1:34:23Because I think you're just an honest man. And I think I think God deals with honest men. I think the fact that you could sit here and be like, no.
1:34:30No. No. I fleshed this out.
1:34:31I think the truth is one day, all knees are gonna be bowing willing or non willing. And I think when me and you are gonna be sitting there, we're gonna be looking at him, I think that in your brain, you're gonna be like, oh, I missed a piece, not angry at him. And, I think that's the difference between you and a lot of people that I I I not that I give up on, because I never wanna give up on a neighbor, but I do know that when I was in a place where my questions weren't being met, I was honest.
1:34:56Dude, I had those questions with God. What? This guy's four years old, never prayed to you, never got baptized, and he's burning in hell?
1:35:02Oh, hell is eternal? So, even if I do reject you, it's forever and always? I had the tough questions, but my God had the tough answers.
1:35:10I tell people this, don't go to God and tell him how big your problems are. Show your problems how big your God is. Dude, when I look at you, I don't see a problem.
1:35:21I see an opportunity. I see like a mountain, bro, and Jesus did tell me, you could say, you could tell this mountain to get up and move. And I am sitting in front of the world, and it might be embarrassing myself, but I want you next to me in the kingdom, bro.
1:35:35Because, dude, there's there's people that I sit next to that claim that they're good people, but they don't do half the things that you do. Not saying that it's work based, but I'm saying that I think your belief is there but who said it for you is not there.
1:35:49Every word, every position, every motive is Christ centered which means, you know how you said, Nobody has free will? Mhmm. I agree.
1:35:56And guess what? You're willing off of his will. Mhmm.
1:35:59You ain't willing off of all these other religions' wills. I could see Christ in you without you even seeing Christ in you. And so, when you said, would that kid die?
1:36:08If he died in that place, would he go to heaven or hell? Mhmm. Equivalently, would you, if you died, go to heaven or hell?
1:36:14I won't know. Yeah. Because I don't know what God did to you.
1:36:17All I can say is this, when Moses stood in front of Pharaoh, God used Pharaoh and Moses, but God only knew Moses.
1:36:29Mhmm. And so, I I don't want you to harden your heart towards God. I don't think I have.
1:36:35Well, all your muscles are
1:36:37I don't like and I I would say that I've I've I am I have strong beliefs loosely held.
1:36:44Right? And so Strong beliefs loosely held. Wow.
1:36:47That is a term. Strong beliefs loosely held.
1:36:51So strong beliefs that could sway if something I have to. Like, nature of my life is learning, and I define learning as new conditions change sorry.
1:37:01New condition, same condition, new behavior. And so, like, if I'm if I receive new information, the conditions have changed, and I can change my behavior, which obviously I think the Internet has tons of issues with, anyone changing anything.
1:37:13But I think that I remember I remember I went back, um, home a few years after I, like, got on my entrepreneurial journey, etcetera.
1:37:22And I I went to someone who was close to me at the time, and they were like, you've changed. And I remember they they said it as an insult. And I remember pausing for this moment and I was like, you haven't.
1:37:36And it was just this very interesting exchange that I have. And then I was just like, yeah, I wanna be the one who changes.
1:37:42Yeah. And so I have no and and this is why I think language is so important is because people make these I am statements.
1:37:49I am this type of person. I am a I am a Christian. I am organized.
1:37:53I am a control freak. I'm whatever. And they give themselves these labels.
1:37:56And because we want to be consistent, right, consistent commitment, you know, consistency bias, like, wanna appear as as people who are the same because it's it's deemed a good quality people.
1:38:06No one likes people who are changing in erratic because they're hard to trust. Yeah. But the thing is is that we have to be willing to change when when conditions change.
1:38:13Like, had different assumptions when I started when I started a business versus what I have now, and some of those were disproven. And so I had to change the way I acted in order to get where get to where I wanted to go. Yeah.
1:38:21And so all that to say, you asked, you know, halfway through the pod, you know, if if Jesus came on Earth, like, what would you do? I'd be like, bow and worship. If the if the creator of the universe came down, of course, I would.
1:38:31Right? The difficulty that I've had was simply believing that it happened. Yeah.
1:38:34Not that and when we ask again on that continuum, do I do I 10% believe? Yeah.
1:38:3910% believe. I don't think I believe enough.
1:38:43And by the way, you're have a bone to pig with Jesus. Oh, you don't like my terms.
The Hook
The bait, then the rug-pull.
The title sounds like a quiz. It isn't. When George Janko asks Alex Hormozi whether he'd choose peace or power, Hormozi picks power without hesitation — and then spends the next 98 minutes systematically dismantling the premise until both men agree the question was wrong to begin with.
How they asked for the click.
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