12:37Colin and Samir · Interview
We need to talk about Backrooms
Colin and Samir break down the week three YouTubers made Hollywood irrelevant — from a car in Montana.
June 5thThe argument in one line.
Followers are a vanity metric — watch time, fit, and the quiet discipline of doing your craft without expectation are what actually compound into a creator career you don't resent.
Read if. Skip if.
READ IF YOU ARE…
- A creator who hit a follower count that 'should' be paying out but isn't, and is trying to understand why brands and agencies still won't reach in.
- A filmmaker or director sitting between commercial work and personal IP and weighing whether to take a stable creative-director job.
- A short-form creator considering a hard pivot in content style and bracing for the algorithm hit that follows a format change.
- Anyone treating creating as therapy and wondering whether to professionalize the thing that's keeping them sane.
- Someone exiting a long relationship or sober milestone who is rethinking the chaos-versus-stability trade-off of self-employment.
SKIP IF…
- You want hard tactical playbooks — this is a values-and-trade-offs conversation, not a thumbnail or hook tutorial.
- You're looking for AI tool recommendations or workflow demos — AI gets a passing five-minute mention near the end.
- You can't tolerate spiritual framing — the guest invokes prayer, gods, and 'divine will' throughout.
The full version, fast.
Sooraj Saxena spent a decade learning that follower count is a lagging vanity metric: he made his first $21M of impact at 18 with investor videos, built a six-figure merch business on his phone during COVID, hit a million on TikTok, then watched brands and agencies refuse to sign him because his style was 'too abstract' to fit a creative brief. The framework he keeps returning to is that the algorithm doesn't penalize you, audience-fit does — pivot too hard and your existing followers vote your content down before it ever reaches the FYP. The cure he offers is honest about cost: stop chasing other creators' blueprints, accept that the chaos lifestyle has a nervous-system price, kill the version of yourself that worked when it stops fulfilling you, and immerse so completely in the craft that the outcome stops mattering.
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00:00hostArad
01:51guestSooraj Saxena
Where the time goes.
00:00 – 01:51
01 · Cold open: content is science
Cold-open montage of the highest-voltage lines — content as frequency, killing prior versions of yourself, the chaos-vs-stability creator tradeoff, and 'you were born in the right generation' — before the host reads Sooraj's bio.
01:51 – 03:21
02 · Tehran audience and the Persian mistake
Warm-up: Sooraj reveals his biggest IG Reels demographic for two years was Iran, because people assumed he was Persian. Arad — who actually is Iranian — lights up.
03:21 – 05:22
03 · The Chai-pour era
Arad recalls discovering Sooraj in 2021 through hundreds of match-cut chai-pour transition videos. They unpack why the format went international: no English required, pure visual rhythm.
05:22 – 06:13
04 · Brown creator representation
A short detour on South-Asian and Iranian creators finally getting commercial pull across every vertical — tech, life science, fashion — after years of being overlooked.
06:13 – 10:47
05 · Childhood performer roots
Sooraj's mother put him in dance class through poverty — Bollywood, lyrical hip-hop, Bhangra. He rapped from 11 to 19, recorded 300+ songs, deleted the entire persona from the internet.
10:47 – 16:41
06 · Startup videos breakthrough
At 18, Sooraj makes investor videos for his father's breast-cancer diagnostics startup. The videos help raise $21M. His first mentor tells him video storytelling will be the next wave — Sooraj doesn't believe it yet.
16:41 – 19:23
07 · Sneaking into concerts for portfolio
All-black backpacks, fake media laminates, no wristbands — they sneak into SF music festivals to shoot. He never gets caught. Arad got caught and went back the next day.
19:23 – 28:41
08 · Shakti and the TikTok market gap
He opens an LLC at 19 he didn't need yet — Shakti — to bring music-video aesthetics to the life-science, biotech and pharma space the rest of the Bay Area filmmakers ignored. Drops out senior year of college, goes sober, goes all in.
28:41 – 37:09
09 · Why TikTok during COVID
Eight hours a day of doomscrolling. Friends tell him: post for the same hours you consume. End of 2020 he posts 5-9 videos a day of self-love and 'self-date' content shot on his phone. Zero to 100k in two and a half months.
37:09 – 40:24
10 · Treating the phone like a music video
Insert shots of the stove, the whisk, the eggs — done on a phone like a commercial. He demystifies the production: same instincts, smaller camera, no permission needed.
40:24 – 50:05
11 · Ghosted from the big partnership
Spends his last $6k of college fund hiring crew for a med-device brand film. They love it, schedule a one-year partnership meeting, then the CEO declines the calendar invite a minute before. He cries on the SF waterfront.
50:05 – 57:38
12 · God's wake-up call
Mid-cry, a voice tells him to stop focusing on what isn't working and look at what is. He opens TikTok — 250k followers he was treating as a hobby. From August to December 2021 he goes from 250k to a million.
57:38 – 1:02:02
13 · Six-figure merch year
Audience asks him to put his quotes on hoodies. First drop: 30 sales. Winter: 100 sales. April 2022: $50-60k in a single month off two or three videos. He keeps the engine running for 2.5 years.
1:02:02 – 1:10:05
14 · Killing the version that worked
The merch content stops fulfilling him. His father tells him to make the acting/skit content he started in COVID. He stops the chai videos completely — even though he knows they'd still go viral — because he doesn't want to be known for that anymore.
1:10:05 – 1:13:43
15 · How the algorithm penalizes you
When you switch format the algorithm shows the new content to your existing follower pool first. They don't engage — they followed you for the old style — and TikTok reads that as 'this video failed.' Watch time and shareability are the only signals that matter.
1:13:43 – 1:18:02
16 · Why brands don't reach out
Seven talent agencies turned him away — too abstract, no strong inbound. Brands want creators who can be molded into any brief. A million followers and a non-template style still gets out-earned by a 100k creator with UGC range.
1:18:02 – 1:20:23
17 · Two case studies and a door opens
An Iranian agent finally lands him a dating-app deal and Waymo lets him do his own style across three activations. Once one or two brands say yes to who you actually are, the pitch gets easier.
1:20:23 – 1:23:43
18 · Creator chaos tradeoffs
He's quietly considering a creative-director job. Years of feast-or-famine on brand deals built his life on chaos — and chaos is an unregulated nervous system. Stability and creative passion sometimes pull in opposite directions.
1:23:43 – 1:27:29
19 · Walking away from a 5,000-person waitlist
He launched a paid subscription community — 60 students, 5,000-person waitlist — and shut it down because telling stories pulled harder. Stable income that kills the reason you started isn't stability.
1:27:29 – 1:30:59
20 · Mourning lives you won't live
Most creatives don't know their values, so they try to live every life they can imagine. Discipline is choosing a few and grieving the others. Mr. Beast says his mental health is awful — that's the cost, not a bug.
1:30:59 – 1:35:49
21 · Stop chasing blueprints
Chasing another creator's path is outsourcing faith in yourself. You'll go far down it and resent your own life. Treat anything anyone says — including this podcast — as a suggestion, not a truth.
1:35:49 – 1:40:20
22 · What to do when content flops
Don't blame the algorithm — make stronger content. Frequency, color, voice projection, sound design all land below conscious thought. Either learn the science yourself or outsource to someone who has.
1:40:20 – 1:43:00
23 · AI and human resilience
Sooraj refuses to be scared of AI. Humans are adaptable, humans want humans, and 'you have zero excuses' to make in this era — being born now is a privilege, not a curse.
1:43:00 – 1:45:07
24 · Card game and final advice
Arad pulls a deck of 50 questions. Sooraj draws 'most profound piece of advice': immerse so deep in the thing you love that expectations dissolve and answers arrive. Closes green-graded with namaste hands.
Lines worth screenshotting.
- Watch time and shareability are the two real signals — followers are a count of people who once tapped, not people who will watch.
- TikTok grades every post against a 200-to-500-person test pool of your followers before deciding whether to graduate it to the FYP.
- Followers acquired through one format become a downvote pool when you switch formats — the platform reads their low watch-through as 'this video failed.'
- Brands don't reach out to creators with style — they reach out to creators with templates that fit a brief.
- Talent management companies turn you away for two reasons: weak inbound demand and a content style that can't be slotted into a 50-influencer roster.
- The Chai-pour transition video traveled internationally because it required no English — visual content scales past language borders that dialogue content can't.
- A 50-to-150k-follower creator who will mold to any brief routinely out-earns a million-follower creator who won't.
- Walking away from a 5,000-person paid waitlist is sometimes correct: stable income that kills your reason to create is a worse trade than volatility.
- Your innate creative nature is to evolve — sticking with a format for five years past its expiration date stunts the artist who needs new mediums to grow.
- When a content style stops fulfilling you, the cost of continuing it is creative resentment — even if the videos still go viral.
- Most creators are insecure children who never got seen — the platform isn't a business strategy, it's an unprocessed-emotion machine.
- The trade-off for going all-in on building a creative empire is mental health, privacy, and present-tense relationships — the people who win publicly say privately that it's awful.
- Mourning the lives you won't live is the prerequisite to choosing which life you will — most creators skip this and try to live all of them.
- Mr. Beast says his mental health is 'really bad' and that thinking about it would stop him doing what he does — that's the actual job description.
- The phone camera became good enough during COVID that 'I need better gear' became the excuse, not the bottleneck.
- Doomscrolling and content creation are the same eight hours pointed in opposite directions — flip the polarity and you exit depression.
- Brands judge music-video directors on potential — they expect new vision. Brands judge commercial directors on the ability to recreate the same shot ten times.
- Two case-studies of brands letting you keep your style is enough leverage to stop reshaping yourself for the next pitch.
- AI doesn't end creators — the people scared of AI are the same people who were scared of every tool that arrived before it.
- Content is human psychology with frequencies — color, voice projection, framing, and pacing land on viewers below conscious thought, and that's why minute details cost what they cost.
Why followers stop converting and what to chase instead.
WHAT TO LEARN
A million followers is not a business — fit, watch time, and a creative life you don't resent are. The cure for stalled creator careers is to stop chasing other people's blueprints and to be honest about which trade-offs you'll actually accept.
06Startup videos breakthrough
- Video storytelling beats deck-and-data for complex topics — the same investor pitch raised $21M because video made an unfamiliar problem feel digestible.
- Your first real client is often someone who needs you cheaper than the market — high school rate, professional output, portfolio you keep forever.
08Shakti and the TikTok market gap
- Find the under-served vertical adjacent to your craft — for him it was applying music-video aesthetics to biotech and med-device because no one else would.
- Opening an LLC at 19 without a client base was premature signaling — entity status doesn't replace inbound demand.
09Why TikTok during COVID
- Treat the platform as therapy first, distribution second — the audience you build around your honest processing will outlast any format you try to engineer.
- Eight hours a day of posting beats eight hours a day of scrolling — same nervous system, opposite direction.
12God's wake-up call
- The breakdown often is the signal — when nothing's working out, audit what you've been ignoring on the side because the answer is usually already running.
- Quarter-million followers you treat as a hobby will quietly outperform the brand deal you spent your last $6k chasing.
14Killing the version that worked
- The format that built your audience can become the cage that stunts you — pivoting when it stops fulfilling you is the cost of staying a real creative.
- Even if the old style would still go viral, the fact that it doesn't fulfill you is sufficient reason to stop — virality without alignment is creative resentment.
15How the algorithm penalizes you
- When you change content style, the algorithm shows new posts to your existing follower base first — their low watch-through is what kills the video.
- Watch time and shareability are the only metrics that matter — follower count, post time, and 'the algorithm hates me' are noise.
16Why brands don't reach out
- Brands hire templates, not styles — a 100k creator who'll execute any brief beats a million-follower creator with a signature look.
- Talent agencies reject creators with weak inbound and abstract style because both make it harder to slot you into a 50-influencer brief.
18Creator chaos tradeoffs
- Years of feast-or-famine brand income builds your life on chaos and your body on an unregulated nervous system — that's the part most creator content hides.
- Considering a stable creative-director job is not a failure — it's an honest pricing of what your nervous system can sustain.
19Walking away from a 5,000-person waitlist
- Paid subscription income that doesn't fulfill you isn't stability — it's a new obligation with a steadier paycheck.
- Shutting down a profitable community is sometimes the move that protects the reason you started creating in the first place.
20Mourning lives you won't live
- Discipline is choosing a few lives to live and grieving the rest — most creators try to live all of them and burn out instead.
- Public 'all-in' founder stories quietly admit the price: privacy, mental health, presence with the people who would witness the win.
21Stop chasing blueprints
- Following another creator's exact path outsources your self-belief and lands you in a life that isn't yours.
- Treat every piece of creator advice — including this episode — as a suggestion to test against your own experience, not a truth to live by.
22What to do when content flops
- When a post tanks, stop blaming the algorithm and ask what frequency you missed — color, voice projection, pacing, framing all land below conscious thought.
- Either learn the production science yourself or outsource the part you're weakest at — there is no third option.
23AI and human resilience
- AI is a tool the people who would have made the next pivot will absorb — humans want humans, and that doesn't change.
- Being born now removes every old excuse — the cost of staying nostalgic is being left behind.
24Card game and final advice
- Immerse in the craft so completely that the outcome stops mattering — that's where the answers arrive.
- What you love is in the heart, not the mind — most people try to think their way to passion and stay stuck because the wiring runs the other direction.
Terms worth knowing.
- FYP (For You Page)
- TikTok's algorithmic discovery feed. Videos only land here after surviving a graduated series of test audiences — most posts never leave the first pool.
- Watch time
- The total seconds an average viewer stays on a video, weighted heavily by short-form algorithms because it correlates with completion and re-watch.
- Shareability
- How often viewers send a video to someone else. Treated by TikTok and Instagram as a top-tier ranking signal because it indicates active rather than passive engagement.
- UGC (User-Generated Content)
- Brand-paid videos shot in the style of organic posts, typically by creators who can adapt their voice to a brief — distinct from sponsored hero campaigns.
- Spec work
- Self-funded sample projects a director shoots to prove they can work in a category they have no commissioned credits in yet.
- Brief
- A brand's written ask for a campaign — niche, tone, deliverables. Talent agencies match creators against briefs by template fit, not by overall talent.
- CPG (Consumer Packaged Goods)
- Physical retail product categories — beverages, snacks, beauty, apparel. Sooraj uses it to describe the chai brand he considered launching off his audience.
- Print-on-demand
- An apparel fulfillment model where shirts and hoodies are produced one at a time after a sale, removing inventory risk for creators testing merch demand.
- Diptych transition
- The match-cut style Sooraj mastered: identical hand position and frame composition across costume or outfit changes, scored to a music drop.
- Self-date
- Sooraj's COVID-era practice of taking himself on solo outings — cooking on cliffsides, hiking — and filming the introspection as content.
- Shakti
- Sooraj's production brand, founded in 2017 to serve the under-served life-science and med-device space with music-video-grade cinematography.
Things they pointed at.
11:40productShakti (Sooraj's production brand, founded 2017)
13:20toolCanon 70D
1:23:10productWaymo (autonomous vehicle brand activations)
1:25:00productSooraj's paid subscription community (shut down)
1:29:40channelMr. Beast (cited as chaos-cost example)
1:36:30productRami (Hulu series, cited as creator-to-TV pipeline)
1:40:40channelJustReign / Late Bloomer (YouTube-to-TV creator example, Crave Canada)
1:41:20channelDonald Glover / Atlanta (creator-to-TV pipeline reference)
Lines you could clip.
00:04
“Content is nothing but science. It's human psychology. There's certain frequencies that flow within the way you speak, the way you position lights, the way you frame things. Every detail matters.”
01:05
“I kept waiting for permission and looking for someone else to validate my self worth. But God in that moment said, no. Just stop waiting and just go do it for yourself.”
01:50
“What did you think you were signing up for when you wanted to be a creator in the first place?”
1:10:50
“Watch time, I think, is a hundred percent the most — and shareability.”
1:20:23
“Creator life is volatile as shit. It's so volatile, and I'm realizing I've built my entire life off chaos — which is pretty much an unregulated nervous system.”
1:28:10
“Most people do not have the ability to mourn lives that they may never live.”
1:29:10
“Mr. Beast says it all the time — his mental health is honestly awful, and if he thought about it he wouldn't be doing this.”
1:33:50
“We're an era of needing to de-influence our brains.”
1:36:50
“Content is nothing but science. Every detail holds a vibration that can be subconsciously picked up by a viewer.”
1:41:20
“People say, 'I was born in the wrong generation.' No — you were born in the right generation. You have zero excuses.”
1:43:30
“Immerse yourself so deep in the process of something that you love without any expectations of results. Just trust.”
Where the conversation goes.
00:00 – 05:22steadyCold open + introductions
05:22 – 19:23denseOrigin story: dance, rap, filmmaking
19:23 – 28:41steadySneaking into concerts + Shakti founding
28:41 – 40:24denseCOVID-era TikTok takeoff
40:24 – 57:38denseGhosting + God's wake-up call
57:38 – 1:02:02denseSix-figure merch run
1:02:02 – 1:13:43denseKilling the format that worked + algorithm penalty
1:13:43 – 1:20:23denseWhy brands and agencies don't sign him
1:20:23 – 1:27:29denseChaos vs. stability + the waitlist he killed
1:27:29 – 1:30:59denseMourning lives + Mr. Beast cost
1:30:59 – 1:35:49denseStop chasing blueprints
1:35:49 – 1:43:00steadyFlops, frequency, AI
1:43:00 – 1:45:07denseCard game + final advice
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metaphorstory
00:00Content is nothing but science. It's human psychology. And the best creators will tell you this.
00:04There's , the way you position lights, the way you frame things. Every detail matters.
00:13I kept waiting for permission and looking for someone else to validate my self worth, validate that I can do the creative projects that I wanted, and that someone was gonna give me the big break. Some opportunity, some brand, someone was gonna be that, you know, knight in shining armor for me. But God in that moment said, no.
00:29Just stop waiting and just go do it for yourself. Take that high quality energy you would wanna do for other brands, do it for yourself. I had to kill off that version of myself that doesn't serve me anymore.
00:39Some people only stick to one format of content and stick with that their entire life and are afraid to evolve. A lot of creators I think are too stubborn to admit that sometimes like the trade off of chaos versus stability is not worth it or not sustainable. It's so volatile and I'm realizing I've built my entire life off chaos.
00:56What did you think you were signing up for when you wanted to be a creator in the first place? I signed up for this thinking if I don't make content, I will literally not amount to anything because I will probably off myself because of what else am I meant to do. People like, oh, one of the worst areas.
01:12I was born in the wrong generation. I'm like, no. You are born in the right generation.
01:16Facts. Suraj Saxena is a filmmaker, creative entrepreneur, and one of the early architects of high production short form storytelling.
01:24From helping raise millions through startup brand films at 18 to building a 6 figure creative business off his phone during COVID, his journey is a masterclass in betting on yourself. In this episode, we talk confidence, creativity, spirituality, building an audience from scratch, and what really happens when you stop waiting for permission.
01:42This is ourselves with Suraj Saxena.
01:51Do you know, like, for the longest time, one of my biggest demographics was from Tehran? No.
01:57Iran. Yeah. Really?
01:58For, like, two years. Yeah. On IG reels.
02:01Yeah. Iranians? Because most people I run into, they're like, you're Persian?
02:06Are you Persian? Are you Persian? Are you Persian?
02:08All the time in the bay, everywhere. Oh, really? Persian girls are my weakness.
02:14But yeah, dude, like a lot of people are like, oh, yeah, like they they saw me on their f y p, they're like, oh, this guy's Iranian, this guy's Iranian. He's half Iranian, half Indian. Oh.
02:22I'm just like, no. But Swag.
02:24Wild, bro. Yeah. That's dope, man.
02:28Well, dude, yeah, just like to jump into it, man. You wanna start with guiding
02:31us through your prayer? Yeah. Yeah.
02:33Alright. It'll be a little mental prayer, but J Biddha Baba, J Maqali, J Maatangi, let this all be an offering to you, all of humanity.
02:45Channel your wisdom, your art, your creativity through me, through Rod, through humanity.
02:51Let me be a vessel for your wisdom and your grace.
02:57Jema. Jema.
02:59Okay. Thank you, bro. Yeah.
03:01Of course. Dude, I love your I love your energy.
03:04You know what? I feel like Real recognizes Real. It's cliche as hell, but I feel the same way about you, dude.
03:10Thank you, bro. Of course. Dude, thank you for being here.
03:13Thank you for inviting me, like, making LA feel so welcoming. I haven't been here in three years, so I am grateful for you. Grateful for you, man.
03:21I'm grateful that we got to connect and Absolutely. You know, I I actually I don't know. I didn't tell you this, but I
03:28I discovered your content, like, several years ago, probably 2021. It was you pointing the chai, and it was a song, Trappin' in Atlanta. Five, three, four, five bands, transition, boo.
03:39And the clip I really loved, you had long hair back then. Yes. And it was it was like a red shirt or something.
03:45Mhmm. I need to find that clip. That's so
03:49crazy. That's a throwback, man. Yeah.
03:50A lot of people don't know about that. Really? Yeah.
03:52Well, especially nowadays, people like, they don't know that lore. Dude, and you and I remember I saw like multiple versions. I was like, wait, is this another one?
04:00But it was like the same style, and again, the chai, different outfit, different hair, and then you like buzzed your hair. And then you did I did like 300 of those. 500 of those.
04:09It never stopped. It was so fire. I was like, I fuck with this editing, dude.
04:14Like, the editing and the and it was very seamless. Like, you were in the same exact position, and even the way you held the chai, like, was like, even the mid pour, somehow you matched the exact angle of your hand and the the stream of the pouring of the chai tea, and it was just, like, perfect match cut. Like, that's good filmmaking.
04:31I appreciate that, man. It's like, how can we take something that you'd maybe see on a commercial, but like, you do it for short form? I will humbly say, I feel like I mastered that at that era.
04:40You did, bro. Yeah. So I appreciate that.
04:42And it's crazy that I was able to reach you, dude. Yeah. You reached me early.
04:45That's why when you when you reached out to me, I was like, oh, I know this dude. And I was I was following you already. I saw, like, you I saw you view one of my stories or like my story, and I was like, Arad.
04:54I was like, I know that name, dude. Really? And I looked at your page, I was like, no way.
04:59Because you've been in the game for a long time. Yeah. I've game for a minute.
05:02And I used to, like, look up to all of your work. What? Yeah.
05:06Don't lie to me, bro. You're just I swear. Liar.
05:09Swear. That's crazy. That's what I because and but I for me, it was always very difficult to put name to face, so I was like, I never actually saw your face.
05:16Yeah. Yeah. I just saw your your credit a lot, I was like, oh, wow.
05:19It was it was incredible because I always did wanna be a director. Yeah. So, like, seeing you being able to film for some of the greatest artists and be able to just do creative work in a space that is foreign to me in the Bay Area, I was like and being someone who's a person of color too, when I found out you're Iranian, I was like, wow.
05:36Yeah, dude. Put it on for us brown people, bro. Bro, we got to, man.
05:40Brown right now, I feel like brown people are having, like, the the best PR ever. Absolutely. I'm like, absolutely.
05:46It's like, we we were slept on for a while, but people were like, wait a minute. These guys are actually it.
05:52Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
05:53Dude. And and every vertical of, like, you know, society, to be honest.
05:57Everything from tech, life science, creative, everything, dude. It's beautiful, Finally,
06:02bro. And it's great. We are we are the representation we've always we're seeking.
06:06Yeah. Yeah. You know what mean?
06:07We gotta pave the way, man. That's it. Heck yeah, dude.
06:10Because there's people looking up to us. Yeah. Well, on that note, bro Please.
06:13You you I mean, you you've always wanted to be a filmmaker, you said, and you are a filmmaker. Mhmm. But, like, is that something you just wanted to do since you were a kid?
06:21Yeah.
06:22Good question, man. You know, there's three things three labels that I always said without fail.
06:30I wanna be a singer, dancer, actor. That's all I ever said. So from two years old to, like, 18, I was a dancer.
06:40I did, like, traditional Bollywood, lyrical hip hop, American hip hop, all of these various forms of, you know, folk, Bhangada, Ross, like, all these different Indian forms of choreography, and that was my first expression because I looked up to, growing up, Indian Bollywood movies.
07:02The best. And I loved the cinematography and the way they would dance on screen. Didn't get that in American movies at all.
07:09No. And it was beautiful. I I always loved the music that, you know, was portrayed, very soulful, and it's honestly because of my mother.
07:20Mhmm. She's the one who pushed me to be a dancer. She put me in classes even the times we were struggling.
07:26She always found a way to get me through dance class and be able to do that very consistently. I was in every talent show from kindergarten to twelfth grade being a dancer.
07:37So I was always, in a weird way, born to be a star. I was always front stage.
07:42I always had this confidence built in me because my mom pushed that on me. So I was lucky and privileged enough to have a supportive mother who allowed my creative expression to flow from a very young age.
07:56So it became part of my DNA, part of my programming, which was quite the blessing.
08:02A lot of people don't get that. A lot of people have repressed
08:05Of course. You know, creative expressions. And this puts pushback.
08:08Right? It's not encouraged from the families. Especially in, like, South Asian,
08:11East Asian families. Mhmm. They're like, you need to study, doctor, engineer.
08:17Like, that's, you know Yeah. It's not usually especially males, you know, you don't see it quite often.
08:25But yeah, so I was a dancer for a long time, and then oddly enough, was actually a rapper from age 11 to about 19. What?
08:34Yeah, dude. I had like 400, 300, like, songs. What?
08:38Can I use them later? You know what's crazy? I deleted my entire persona off the internet.
08:43What? It's wild, bro. And it's it's crazy because I used to sell CDs in school, like, burn CDs, put them on SoundCloud What an era.
08:52And I was, like, trapping CDs, like, crazy in middle school Yeah, and high dude. It was wild. And at this point in my life, like, 12, 13, I, like, was influenced very heavily by, like, my brother's older friends and just media at that time.
09:06Your brother's older than you? Five years older. Yeah.
09:08Oh, go go go. I always wanted to be like him, his friends, and the artists that I used to listen to or that they used to listen to, I always wanted to be like them. Wiz, Mac, and I was like What an era.
09:20Era, bro. That and then G Eazy. Like, those three were like, I wanna be like them, I wanna rap like them, like, that's that's who I wanna personify as.
09:29So dope. And that's what I really grew up on, like, truly, like, new school, like, music. I never was into, like, old school, like, hip hop or anything, but that was my way of yeah.
09:42I think expressing myself through music, and I became pretty large in my like town and it was it was huge.
09:51I used to have a ton of music videos made for me. A lot of those old buddies of mine, they actually moved to Los Angeles, and I fell in love with the way that they were so talented and able to make me look on camera.
10:04And when I saw their editing style, their color grading, the way they would compose shots, and express my story essentially in a very creative way, or take the vision that I and ideas that I had in my head, and then be able to portray that out onto a screen, I fell in love with just the idea of filmmaking.
10:23So much so, I was also going through a time where I was transitioning from high school to college, and I was getting really insecure about my music because I was like, I felt like I wasn't good enough.
10:34And I was like, okay. I want to probably just quit this, and I ended up around that time.
10:43This is where it kind of, like, the transition happened. My father at the time was starting a med device company.
10:52He had a startup, and the team at the time were looking to raise their series a round.
10:59Mhmm. And the head of biz dev at the time needed marketing videos, investor videos to express the problem of his startup, problem that they were addressing, what their solution, what their product was, and they didn't have an easy way to convey that.
11:15And so my senior year in high school, I'm taking, like, video classes. And, again, you know, I'm kinda, like, learning vicariously through my my director, DP buddies, you know, who were still in Livermore at the time. And I had some knowledge of, like, you know, video and, like, editing, but wasn't you know, obviously, like, it wasn't like, oh my god.
11:37I I wanna do this my entire life. It was just something I was kind of picking up and I admired from afar. But then the head of BizDev asked me at the time, hey, Sanjeev, my dad.
11:47Can you can you ask your son if he knows how to make these investor videos for us? He's like, okay. I I mean, he might know.
11:55So my father asked me, hey, the head of biz dev wants to have a meeting with you.
12:00Can you talk to him? My dad always wanted to make sure that he never talked to me because it was just conflict of interest in a startup. Right?
12:09So, anyway, I was talking to the head of biz dev, and he said, Suraj, we need these marketing videos.
12:15Here's, like, basically the entire brief. Could you do this for us? I'm cheap labor at the time, so I was like, of course, it made sense.
12:23You're in high school. Right? I'm in high school.
12:24Yeah. Yeah. So I'm like I'm like, sure.
12:26I can just try. So I made, like, a series of investor catered marketing videos in my my high school, like, video room.
12:38And, you know, I was able to, like, source a bunch of clips, you know, take up you know, record a voiceover of of, you know, some some of the employees that were, you know, explaining this problem.
12:52And what my father was start up at the time was looking to address was the breast cancer lack of breast cancer diagnostics in third world countries like India, China, Africa, and how a lot of these women at the time did not have access to proper, you know, preventative care or diagnostic.
13:15Mhmm. Expensive, you know, a lot of them don't have access to mammography and all of that.
13:19Mhmm. And the solution that he was developing at the time was, you know, a low cost portable device that you can bring into a lot of these villages and, you know, third world countries and be able to diagnose through blood screening.
13:34And at that time, when they asked, I was able to understand what they were doing.
13:42So I was 18, party kid, looking to explain this kind of, like, pretty dense topic for me at the time, and I was able to successfully do it and put it into a video, a couple videos.
13:55And then they would send these to quite literally hundreds of investors. And because of those videos, it helped them raise $21,000,000 in their series a round.
14:05Amazing. And a lot of their investors were saying, thank you for sending that video. It helped us take this really complex idea and problem that we're not aware of and made it simplified enough in a way where we're able to understand and want to, you know, look at another pitch deck and do our due diligence more.
14:25Right. It makes it digestible, basically. Digestible.
14:28Yeah. And I was like, I found that there was the power of telling a story of a vulnerable population, and you're able to then communicate, use this as a communication tool, and it can drive investment.
14:45And I was like, wow. That's the power of video. That's like the first time I truly realized, and the head of business, like, they raised the round, like, Suraj, I don't think you understand, like, how much those videos and investors were telling us that video helped.
14:57And I was like, I mean, I I still didn't really get it. Yeah. But he said, Suraj, you actually have a gift and you don't even know it.
15:06And he was actually, like, my first, like, mentor at the time. He said, you have a gift here, you just haven't tapped into it, and you don't see it, but storytelling in this medium is gonna be the new wave over the next, like, twenty years.
15:21Damn. And I was like it's like, you you know, a lot of people don't know how to do video. A lot of these guys, you know, especially in this space, the med device, health care, life science, pharma space, like, in the Bay Area Mhmm.
15:36There's not filmmakers saying, I wanna go film for those industries. Right. All filmmakers wanna go film for Reebok, Coca Cola, Converse, x y z.
15:44Right? So then, I was in college at the time, and I gave up rapping.
15:51But I was kind of contracted by my father's startup at the time, and I had a camera in hand, Canon 70, and I would take that Classic.
15:58Classic. Yeah. And then I would take that to just go play around.
16:02I just wanted to learn the camera. So then I'd go film, like, pop up shops, art shows, like, homies, like, throwing events, and I just make recap videos, and I just started getting familiar with the camera.
16:15And I was like, holy shit. This thing fell in my lap at, like, 18, 19 years old, and I fell in love with it. Was like, oh, this is sick.
16:21I just like making really pretty images. Mhmm. That was the driving factor.
16:26I was like, oh my god. Like, I feel like I have this eye for, like, eye candy at that time.
16:31I'm like, oh, I I I know I like colors. I like certain music videos.
16:36I I wanna take that same energy and put it into all these types of things that I'm doing. And then from there, we'd go shoot music festivals and like shows and like SF and we'd take our cameras.
16:49Sometimes we didn't even have like media passes. We would like, you know, wear all black, backpack, just make some laminates, sneak through just to up our portfolio, bro.
17:00We would do that shit. Dude, have
17:03same exact story. I swear to God. Did you ever get caught for it?
17:08Never.
17:09Never once. Bro,
17:10I got caught. Oh, boy. I wanted that.
17:13And then I went back the next day, and I did it again. Wild,
17:16bro. Because at that time, it's like, you gotta do what you gotta do to build a portfolio. It because was different now they have, like, the fancy wristbands.
17:22Yeah. It's like, then they're, like, checking that. But back then, it's like, can just take, you know, the the tour, you know, the the yeah.
17:30The tour, whatever it's called Pass.
17:33Poster or whatever, and then make a small laminate, put media on it, and, like, the security guards didn't give a a lot of them didn't give a fuck. They're not like, oh, you just wave it. You just wave it.
17:42Yeah. Yeah. Because they don't they don't expect people to just, you know It's kinda scary how much of a security threat that could have been.
17:48Yeah. Two guys wearing all black, black backpacks, black beanies, and just, like, cameras in hand, and just, like, running, like, media media.
17:56Kinda nuts. Like, wild, bro. It's kinda nuts.
17:59But that, like, helped me dramatically. Yeah. It helped me a lot to get, like, build, like, a portfolio and doing things like that.
18:06And granted, I didn't do like, there was times where I actually got media passes and whatnot. But, you know, there but it was it was great because I was able to, like, refine my craft through just shooting anything.
18:20Yeah. You know? I was self teaching myself through YouTube University and all that, you know?
18:26For sure. Self taught, always. Exactly.
18:28And then started working with some pretty cool up and coming artists that, you know, started to get pretty big, and that's kinda like where it started.
18:37And then, like, yeah, that's that's where it happened, then COVID hit, and then we can we can go on. Wow.
18:43So that's everything leading up to COVID and, like, the start of your content creation? Because I was in college. I was balancing college and this passion of film making.
18:50Got it. Like, at the same time. So I was like I was like And I was a wild party animal, so I was trying to have a social life.
18:56I see. So it was like It wasn't like I was fully invested into actually any of them, you know what mean?
19:02I was like, just kinda like skating through life a little bit. Right. Right.
19:06Right. I knew I loved this. I knew I was super talented at it.
19:08People knew I was really good at it, but like, even in college, was like shooting mannequin challenges, like, doing things that were just really cool, you know? Like, just for the school, and it was it was I was just falling in love with this thing that, you know, I had no idea where I was gonna go.
19:22Yeah. But at some point, after I was doing the music videos, I realized, I'm like, I need to turn this into a business.
19:28I just opened up an LLC just very haphazardly, and I shouldn't have because at the time, I was like, oh, opening up an LLC is so cool.
19:37Like, I'm an entrepreneur. Like, that's, like, that's the thing to do. Right?
19:40At 19, I didn't have a consistent inc, like, you know, client base or anything. I'm like, but that is what, like, rich people do. Like, that's what business owners do.
19:49So I started my brand Shakti in 2017.
19:52Shakti. Shakti.
19:54And then what happened was I noticed that there was this gap in the market in the Bay Area where all the filmmakers are going to New York or LA, and the ones that are in the Bay Area, they're filming for a lot of, like, SaaS, like Yeah.
20:14Those tech brands. Yeah. But I realized that a lot of the videos for the high-tech space, so life science, pharmaceutical, you know, drug development Okay.
20:24Biotech, med device, All the content were, like, extremely boring, plain boring vanilla videos.
20:33You know? Oh, really? Corporate y Yeah.
20:35Type of videos. No art there are no artistic integrity. It's just Exactly.
20:39Yeah. Like, no taste. Very simple.
20:40Yeah. No taste. Exactly.
20:42And what ended up I ended up realizing, like, why I I love music video looks. Mhmm.
20:49And this and around this time, this is when I, like, found out about you. So, like, through my college years, that's when I found out about you. Wow.
20:55And, like, a lot of other directors who I was looking up to, like, in Los Angeles, and I was like, wow. A lot of these guys are doing such great things, and it's I I was looking up to directors who were making really cool spots for a lot of these CPG brands and, you know, just the entire, yeah, consumer market. And I I realized I'm like, I love to take this style Mhmm.
21:16And do that for the life science space. Yeah.
21:21They need it. They need it. Right?
21:22And because if you want to attract the new generation of talent, if you want to attract, you know, or communicate to the new stakeholders, the patients who you are delivering these drugs or devices towards that are gonna be in this generation or millennial generation Right.
21:40You wanna be able to do it in a very tasteful way. Know? These are how can you make these industries that are not sexy look sexy and more approachable?
21:49You know, because they are very daunting. There's so much distrust in those spaces anyway because, you know, insurance fucks up a lot of people, x y z.
21:58So how do you how do you, you know, instill trust and tell stories of these companies that are making incredible, you know, developments and products that are serving humanity.
22:12So I said, okay. I'm gonna I'm gonna do that. Like, that's the fucking move.
22:15Yeah. And what ended up happening was I realized I'm 29 I'm 19, 20, 21, or whatever.
22:22So 2019, I dropped out of college.
22:26And I said, hey. I was in my fourth year too. During your senior year, you dropped out?
22:30I was I was on to be fair, I was gonna like, I was never on track to graduate in four years. I was gonna graduate in, like, five years.
22:36Oh, really? But mom was not happy. But I said, mom, I know what I wanna do.
22:40Like, I know what I wanna do at Shakti. Like, I just have to hustle, cold call, you know you know, do everything I can to get sales. Right?
22:49And at the time, was teaching myself, you know, sales and all of these things. And I at the same time, I I dropped out. I went fully sober.
22:59I quit partying. I cut off a lot of people, and I said, gonna go all in on my business and my brand. Wow.
23:05And I had so much confidence in me because I said, hey, you know what? If I I learned so much over the years, I'm I feel confident to be able to do this.
23:15So, again, I did run into, like, a lot of pitfalls, like, trying to do outreach and go to JPMorgan, like, conferences and, like, all these, like, tech networking events and whatnot.
23:27And I was really out there, like, trying to hustle and, like Yeah. Get deals. And then I was like, okay.
23:332020, we're gonna make this happen. This is gonna be my year. This is it.
23:37We're we're gonna do it. Alright? I'm gonna I'm gonna do a a 50 k commercial, a 100 k commercial.
23:43I'm gonna do it. Like, this is my year. End of February comes around Yeah.
23:49The world shuts down. Damn. Well, pause there for, like, that.
23:55I can go I I I wanna give you space also to, like, you know There's a lot there's a lot to unpack here. There's a lot to unpack. Because that that was, like, up until that point, COVID, and then after that, my life changes.
24:07Yeah. But that's kind of like That's the intro. That's the intro, baby.
24:11What an intro, bro. Yeah, dude. And that's the t l d r of the intro.
24:15Like, so yeah. Okay.
24:17We, like, have these levels of delusion when we're kids. Right? Mhmm.
24:21Like, you wanna be a rapper, and there's nothing like, obviously, you can do it. You could totally do it. But the one thing that stops us is confidence.
24:27Yes. And what builds momentum is having enough confidence to say, fuck the hate.
24:33Yes. I don't care how much work this is gonna take. Correct.
24:36I don't care how many times I I get told no. Yeah. But if I keep doing this enough Right.
24:41I will build enough momentum that maybe this will go somewhere. Correct.
24:45And I think what happens with any sort of creation any sort of creative field Mhmm. Is that people stop too early because they get discouraged. Yeah.
24:51Right? And sometimes, that's okay.
24:54Mhmm. Because it'll lead you down paths that that you were supposed to go down, you know? Like, if you try rapping for six years and it's not working out for you, maybe it's just not what's what's meant to be for you.
25:05Right? So There's also power in
25:08and strength in letting go Yes. When things have run their course. That's that's another important thing.
25:14Right? It's a strong sense of discernment. Right?
25:17And sometimes, the universe will nudge you and make you feel guilty like, oh, you didn't push hard enough. Oh my god. If you just kept picking the axe, you would have hit diamonds.
25:26But sometimes, you know, you may have been picking in the wrong direction anyway. There you go.
25:32And God, the universe is looking to just course correct you, but, like, hey. No. There's something far more aligned for you Yes.
25:38That's actually going to make you far more fulfilled and bring you to a sense of purpose.
25:44So so let's fast forward here. Okay. 2020, you're pivoting.
25:49Like, dude, TikTok was such a crazy era, man. 2020, lockdown, COVID, TikTok comes out of nowhere.
25:55It was originally Musically, and then Musically changed and changed into TikTok, and TikTok wasn't even originally the app it is today. It was, like, people lip syncing songs. Right.
26:04Anyways, I don't wanna spend hours on this, but I'm just curious. In the in the most shortest nutshell version Please.
26:12What drew you to TikTok and and content creation? Totally.
26:17I was drawn to TikTok because during COVID, I still needed a creative outlet to express a lot of the epiphanies and realizations I was going through through my sobriety that I was chatting about with my friends, that I was sharing with my parents, I was just steeping into as a result of, you know, understanding my spiritual path at that time.
26:44I didn't know how to channel that properly because I kept feeling like creativity is only reserved for okay.
26:52If I'm filming for brands or music videos or whatever, like, that's the time I can be creative. I didn't know how to give myself permission to just do that for the sake of doing it Right. For myself.
27:02And I ran into a lot a lot of what I think a lot of people can resonate with. I was doomscrolling, like, crazy.
27:12Especially during COVID. During COVID, like, screen time was, like, outrageous, like, absolutely ridiculous.
27:19Before you started creating content? Before I was creating content. Like, was like, every day, I was, like, like, seven hours, eight hours, like, scrolling.
27:26Mean, it's COVID. I'm like, I have nothing to do. And, I mean, I would just go on hikes, and I was, like, super introspective, but, like, I just fell into this app.
27:33Was like, wow. And at the time, some old buddies of mine, they told me they're like I was telling them, like, you guys, I'm feeling super depressed, super anxious because I'm just, like, scrolling my life away. I'm like, I feel like I'm amounting to nothing.
27:47And they said, Suraj, you talk about such incredible things with us, such profound realizations that you're coming to in the self love journey that you're on, you know, with your sobriety and everything that you're going through.
28:02Why don't you spend the same amount of time you spend consuming content with producing it and just putting things out on TikTok?
28:09Like, just share like what you share with us, like, on your phone. I was like Great friends. Incredible.
28:14Like, I was like, woah. I was like, I never thought of that. Like, that's actually genius.
28:21And then end of twenty twenty, anytime I had the urge to scroll, I'd go out I'd go outside.
28:31I'd be outside for eight, nine hours a day just driving around the Bay Area, my hometown, or whatever, and I'd post, I shit you not, five to nine videos every single day for three months.
28:43What videos were these? I don't think I saw these. This is this is where I really this is the first time I actually blew up.
28:49What? I went from zero to a 100,000 followers in like two and a half months.
28:54What kind of content were you posting?
28:57Every single piece of content that I was making was self love, self awareness oriented, pieces of advice that I wanted to that I was journaling for myself.
29:07I was using my TikTok as a form of self art therapy to pull me out of my consumption habit and use it as a digital diary. And it was a way for me to just express myself creatively by using dance, writing, and my ideas of composition and just using purely my phone.
29:28Just using my phone. Was it just like so when you you said three things, dance, writing. Like, what what would it be different things like cameras, your iPhone setup, and I set up my I set up my phone, and I'm, you know, I do, like, know, some lyrical hip hop, and I'm putting, like, some quotes on my you know, around, like, you know, whatever I'm going through.
29:47Your quotes are fire. I love your quotes. Thank you, brother.
29:49It's so good. That's why I say writing has, like, always been my best friend since I was a rapper, as a lyricist. Phenomenal.
29:54Phenomenal writer. Phenomenal writer. I can't even give you your flowers enough.
29:57You're so good, dude. Thank you, brother. So good at writing.
30:00I appreciate that. That's I'm just a channel for the divine to channel through me. Those words are yeah.
30:05When you make a movie, like, gotta talk about this. You'd A be 100.
30:08We we are talking God. Thousand percent. And here's the thing, when I was doing that, I unintentionally and again, this was not to build a following.
30:19This was purely to, like, just get me out of a rut. Yeah. But when I was sharing myself very vulnerably on the Internet, and I was taking my I called them self dates at the time.
30:28I'd go That's awesome. I'd cook, like, I'd take, like, a table, a a stove, and I'd go to Big Sur, and I'd cook, like, French toast and eggs on, like, a cliffside over the ocean or, like, in a on a mountainside or whatever, and I just document the whole thing. And I'd get realizations and tell people, take yourself on a date.
30:44Like, be introspective. Like, go sit in healthy solitude to understand your patterns, all these things. And I was sharing all these things very openly for like three months, and then as a result, it was helping so many people.
30:56People were like, oh my god. I needed this. I never thought of this.
30:58Like, who are you? This and that. And I unintentionally just built a massive audience around just being me and That's having awesome.
31:06I'm helping people, but I'm having fun. I was like, okay.
31:10Cool. I'm nerding out right now. Can I just stop you real quick?
31:13Please. Okay. This is so cool.
31:15So can you give me give me an example? I wanna get into technical stuff. Give me an example of like like, you talked about the French toast on the cliff.
31:21Like Yeah. What does that look like? Is it just lock off camera, shot of you, beautiful view, eating French toast and eggs?
31:26Like Exactly. I'm, like, you know, I'm I'm, like, zooming in on, like, you know, my phone when I'm, like, turning on the fire, like, everything.
31:33I'm treating it like a music video. So insert shot, fire on, insert shot, whipping the eggs, insert with just a phone. Then and then Same thing you would do for a literal ad, I was just doing it, like, on my phone.
31:43And were you talking, or was it just a quote on the screen at the time? Sometimes it was just, like, trending music, and, like, people just, like, see it. Sometimes it'd be Was it a caption at least?
31:49Like, would you put Yeah. And there'd there'd be a caption. It'd always be a little bit different.
31:52Sometimes it'd a voice over. Sometimes it'd be Oh my god. I'm gonna watch these.
31:55I saw I've seen a lot of your I I saw all the way to, like, 2021, but this had to have been 2020. Yeah. End of twenty twenty and then top 2021 It did seem this.
32:03I did see some I did seem some content that was way different, like different cut it was color graded differently. It was like way more organic. Yeah.
32:09Yeah. Yeah. But it was all phone related.
32:11I realized, like, you didn't have to wait for permission to do this. You can just be creative with your phone. Yeah.
32:15Our phone was getting decent now. That was the time where the iPhone wasn't shitty anymore. The camera wasn't shitty.
32:20And it's like you can make really cool stuff, and there was no excuse. Yeah. There's no excuse.
32:24Like, excuse. I'm like, you can build an audience with just your phone. And granted, I will say this, it was a privilege of time to be able to use like, you you you were either using COVID
32:37for one or two ways, so, like, improve your life or just, you know, feel defeated. Right. Right.
32:42COVID was COVID was an op a lot of people if you if you leverage your time the right way, you could do crazy things.
32:49Wild, bro. It's a full collective reset. Yeah.
32:52So, yeah, that's kinda like how I started the content creation. Yeah. It took a life of its own.
32:57It did. Yeah. And then 2021 came around and the world started to open back up.
33:03Yeah. And I said, hey. You know what?
33:04I'm gonna again, I still had my brand Shakti. I said, hey. I'm gonna go out and look for deals again.
33:10And I landed a deal with a med device company doing some incredible work in the robotics, like, surgical space.
33:19Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
33:19I said, okay. This is my foot in the door. I, you know, took out my last $6,000 from, you know, my college fund.
33:26My mom, I was like, mom, this is gonna be my big break. I'm gonna just invest. I'm gonna, like Yeah.
33:29Put my foot in the door and, like What did you invest in exactly? It was hiring a DP, hiring, like, crew, hiring, like, everything like that. Right?
33:35But but the brand didn't pay why did you use your money? Because, you know, I said, hey, I will do this video for, like, cheap because I wanna do it as, like, a portfolio. Oh, okay.
33:44Okay. So I said, hey, you know what? I wanna be able to, you know, help you guys out here.
33:48Mhmm. And what I ended up doing, I ended up producing and directing two commercials for them or, like, yeah, brand films that, like, lived on their YouTube and whatnot.
33:59And, you know, they're just wildly experimental, like, cool or whatnot, and just being able to test the waters. They loved them.
34:06They said, you know what, Serge? We wanna bring you on for a long term one year partnership.
34:13And I said, holy fuck. Dropping out of college wasn't a bad idea.
34:17Like, this is great. Like, I was I I I am finally getting my foot through the door.
34:23Like Yeah. I got my break here. You know, I'm gonna finally start making consistent money from not making any consistent money.
34:28Yeah. Because during COVID, I mean, I was on, what, government assistance. I was still doing, like, music videos during COVID, and these things are, like, keeping me afloat and whatnot, still living with mom and dad.
34:41And then when I had this opportunity, I said, okay. Great. So the founder said, hey.
34:46We're going to set let's set up a meeting. Let's talk about how to structure this partnership. I said, great.
34:53They're like, okay. Hey. Here's the date.
34:54We're gonna all meet up. This and that. Mind you, I've had a existing relationship with them.
35:00Everything has been great. Worked really well together. Was it cold outreach?
35:03How'd they find you? I went to an I went to JPMorgan. It's like a biotech, like Okay.
35:08Banking conference Yeah. Up in up in SF. And I met them through there.
35:13Just met the founders. Got it. Got it.
35:14So then I show up to the scheduled meeting.
35:19After you made the content for them? Or Yeah. After I made these two commercials for them.
35:23Got it. Have a, you know, really steeped deep relationship with them. Right?
35:29Show up to the meeting. I called the CEO. I said, hey.
35:32Hey. I'm outside your building. He said, come outside.
35:37I'm like, can can you come outside? Like, come get me or send someone down and get me? He didn't respond.
35:41I was like, oh, okay. Let me call him again, you know. Didn't respond.
35:45Oh, let me shoot him a a text. Hey, I'm outside. I brought chai, you know, here here I am, like, you know, let's you know, I'm here.
35:53It's I'm five five minutes early, you know. Oh, no. Not the chai, dude.
35:56No. And then he was Indian too, granted.
35:59Okay. Okay. Yeah.
36:00No. I love that. I love that you did that, but I'm just I already know where this is going.
36:03Yeah. And then I was like, you know, this is this is great. You know?
36:07I called the project manager who I was working with on a lot of these commercials. Said, hey. I'm outside.
36:11Doesn't answer. Called him three times. Doesn't answer.
36:14I was like, what's going on? A minute before the 5PM scheduled meeting, he switches the calendar invite to declined.
36:23He's like, hey. I'm I'm outside. I was trying to FaceTime and everything.
36:26I was like, blowing up their phone, actually. You were. Yeah.
36:28I was emailing them. I was like, yo. And you had a scheduled meeting.
36:30It's like Thank you. Yeah. And then I was outside for twenty minutes.
36:34I was like, what the hell? Like, did they just ghost me? Like, that's actually wild.
36:40Started crying a lot. Went to the waterfront. I was just, like, sitting there.
36:44I was, like, crying a bunch. Was, what why is, like why does it seem like nothing to working out for me? Did you email them at least?
36:49Like, dude, what Everything.
36:50Everything. Nothing?
36:52Nothing. I'm sitting there. I'm crying.
36:55I'm, like, why is nothing working out for me? I feel like every time I'm I feel like I'm trying to make strides and, you know, towards my career, it feels like I'm always running into friction.
37:04It's like, you know, why do I feel like I'm not being valued as a creative? Mhmm. And then at that point, God reached me in that moment, and this voice said, Suraj, you're so focused on looking at the things that are not working that it's distracting you from looking at the things that are.
37:27At that moment, I pulled out my phone, pulled up my TikTok, and at this point, I had, like, like, a quarter million followers.
37:36And, it was there's never intention of being an influencer. I never had brand deals or anything. Like, it was just like, I'm just doing these things.
37:43And I looked at it. That voice was saying, why don't you take yourself more serious?
37:50And from that moment, it truly changed my life because I kept waiting for permission and looking for someone else to validate my self worth, validate that I can do the creative projects that I wanted, and that someone was gonna give me the big break.
38:07Some opportunity, some brand, someone who's gonna be that, you know, knight in shining armor for me.
38:14Yeah. But God in that moment said, no.
38:18Just stop waiting and just go do it for yourself. Love that. Take that high quality energy you would wanna do for other brands Yes.
38:24Do it for yourself. I love that. That moment changed my life because even a even a week before that, was going through a breakup and it was just like a recipe of like, nothing was working out.
38:33Ugh. And from that point, August 2021 Yeah.
38:39To December, I went from 250,000 followers to a million
38:43No. On TikTok. Freaking away.
38:45So I
38:46my my content got so incredibly good. I was just, like, lip singing a lot of cool music, quotes are great, making every I was basically making myself into a music video.
38:57Right. All of my content was, like, treating me, like, as if I was a star in a music video, like a Bollywood film. Lip singing other people's songs, but doing it in a very tasteful way.
39:05Right. Not like, you know, your classic TikToks where you're lip singing, but like No. I was making it full on production for myself.
39:11You had the studio, that's when you had the Chai videos and that's when it transitioned into all of that. Got it. And I was putting out quotes and journals and, like, you know, phrases that I was that were helping me process a lot of my, you know, my breakup, a lot of things that I was going through around understanding this version of letting go of myself, etcetera, etcetera.
39:33My followers are like, hey, can you take that phrase? Can you take that quote? Can you take this thing that you always say?
39:39Yeah. And can you put it on a hoodie? I would wear it.
39:43Jesus, dude. That's insane. I was like, what?
39:47I never thought of that. Yeah. I was like, okay.
39:50Print on demand. Get some quality hoodies. Boom.
39:53Did a first launch. Got, like, 30 hoodie sales. I was like, woah.
39:57There's something here. Yeah, dude. I was like, 30 hoodie sales in, like, a week.
40:00Through your content organically. Organic. And then I like, okay.
40:03Let me do a winter drop. And this is this is again, this is all, like, end of twenty twenty one. That got, like, a 100 sales.
40:10Was like Holy moly. Woah. I was like, there's something here.
40:14Granted, I'm only making, like, 30% profit on it, but it's, like, still something. You know what I mean? Yeah, dude.
40:19And, like, I'm just, like, reinvesting it all into, like, more samples, like, more designs, and whatnot. Dude. Fast forward into 2022.
40:26Yeah.
40:27Did, like, a few more drops. Every drop got a little bit bigger. And then I realized, I'm like, fuck.
40:32I can I can make my own money doing the things that I love? Like, I'm I'm building a merch line by being myself and making myself, you know You had fans, dude.
40:46You had an audience. And it was it was mind blowing because I never saw that I thought this was, like, a possibility. Right.
40:51And then, was it April? Then there was like this is at this point I was doing all the high transition. I found this formula that really worked out Yeah.
40:59Had the crazy transition videos. I remember that, and you did a lot. I did a lot because it was able to drive, one, an international following because it didn't require me to talk.
41:10So it was able to go beyond borders. Right?
41:13It was just, like, aesthetically pleasing, but it was also just very intriguing. And then April, May of, yeah, 2022, I hit, like, a 50 to 60 k month in just merch sales alone, and I said, holy shit.
41:26Just off, like, two, three videos. What? Organic dog.
41:28And I realized I'm like, holy fuck. This is this is this is unheard of, bro. Yeah, dude.
41:34Insane.
41:37Thought that that was gonna last forever. Didn't realize merch is also very volatile. Content algorithms is all volatile, but 2022 was my best year.
41:45Merch was some months I was doing 25,000. Some months I was doing 40,000. Was that profit or was that just total revenue?
41:52Just total revenue, 30% of that, whatever. Yeah. And I pushed my merch for about two and a half, three years, and maybe I got, like, a brand deal here and there, but, like, not really.
42:04It was mostly merch that was driving everything. Wow. Was doing all the customer service.
42:07I was doing everything. Right? So I was like, I had an engine.
42:10I had a system. I was like, I know if I make these three formats of content, like a music video style piece, like a modeling, you know, chai pouring piece, this other piece, you know, this is great.
42:22I'm like, okay. I'm gonna do this, then I'm gonna launch a chai line, I'm gonna launch about my whole CPG line. This is gonna be great.
42:27I wanted to do all of that. You would've crushed it. I would because I got, like, tens of thousands of people said, hey.
42:34Can you drop a chai line? That would have been insane. What happened?
42:37Just so many so many, like, logistical things, like, to, like, rip me away from, like, being a creator that I would have to, like, understand and learn. And I really wanted to because back in COVID, I I actually made a Chai brand, like a tea line, but the infrastructure to build CPG is very, very difficult.
42:56Yeah. Yeah. It's actually a very difficult thing.
42:58You need a team, a a little bit of You definitely need a team. I'm like, I'm a creative. You know what I mean?
43:02Like, when it comes to operations and doing all that, like, it's a lot, you know, sourcing all that. So anyway, 2022, you know, I felt like, okay.
43:11I'm gonna turn this in Shuckby, my brand, into a streetwear brand because it unintentionally turned into a creator owned brand. Mhmm. Right?
43:18It wasn't just film production. It was, like, me as the front face of the creator economy.
43:24A lot of creators are making their own brands. I said, you know what? That's that's what I'm gonna do.
43:27You know what mean? Like, people wanna support creators brands.
43:33People wanna support my brand and whatever ecosystem I build under that Right. Will support it. Right.
43:40I ran into a pitfall where I started all my content was merch focused, essentially, for a long time, and I started to feel creatively stunted.
43:51Right. I felt like, wait a minute. I got overwhelmed and anxious.
43:56I'm like, I'm not a streetwear brand. I'm not like these, you know, all these represent young LAs, like, all these guys Yeah.
44:05Tim Shar. Right. All these guys who are doing, like, really cool stuff.
44:08Right. And I'm like, I want I'm looking up to these guys, but I forgot that's not who I am.
44:14Right. I got caught up in the outcome. Mhmm.
44:18I started attaching again my worth to the outcome of my creative endeavor. Oh, you know, if I'm not building a strong streetwear brand or whatever, then I might not be being successful. But I realized it wasn't fulfilling me because I realized I'm like, I'm not that.
44:32I'm a creative. Mhmm. I had I was telling my father about this, and he told me, he's like, Serge, why I said, you know, I'm I'm not fulfilled making this sort of content.
44:43He said, why don't you make the content you were making before you were making TikToks, which was I started I forgot to mention this. My ego and higher self conversations, that started actually the moment COVID started.
44:58I started posting these, like, scripts and, like, things I was going through on YouTube, they'd only get, like, five, seven views. And I posted, like, 10 of them, and they never did well.
45:08So I just kinda, like, shelved it. You know what I mean? And my dad said, why don't you go do those things that you were doing back in, you know, COVID, like the acting?
45:18You know, why don't you do that? Like, you know, you you you loved it. You know, you had no expectation.
45:23You felt so fulfilled doing it. Like, there was no expectation of results attached to that creative endeavor.
45:29Why don't you just do that? I said, oh, but, you know, maybe I'm not that strong of an actor, maybe I'm not a strong screenwriter. Just didn't work for that shit.
45:41Like, teach yourself. Just do it. Yeah.
45:44I was like, okay. And so then I took the big risk and I stopped making chai videos.
45:55I stopped doing, like, these modeling videos. You stopped doing things that worked at the time Exactly. Because you weren't creatively fulfilled.
46:01Exactly. Even though it would even if right now, if I put out on TikTok, like, Chai video or modeling video It'd go crazy.
46:09It'd blow the fuck up because there's so many songs and trends that I could have hopped on with perfect beat drops, everything over the past, like, two years that easily would have 15,000,000 followers by now. Do do you get tempted to do it?
46:21No. You don't? Nope.
46:23You're fighting that you don't have any temptation? Nope. I love that for you.
46:26Because it's like . Dude, I love you're you're amazing, bro. And and it's you know, a lot even my parents are like, why don't you just do it?
46:36Like, you you'll get big, this and that, but I'm like, that's not who I wanna be known for anymore. Like, I'm maturing as a creative. I'm stepping into I'm a storyteller at the end the day.
46:45Like, I wanted to reintroduce my voice and channel it. So I said, hey, you know what?
46:51I'm going to practice becoming an actor and screenwriter and just take all that same high end cinematography and directing style, and I'm like, I'm just gonna start making my own films.
47:04And for the first year and a half of doing that, they did god awful. So bad because, like Why, dude?
47:12Because it's like you're transitioning your content and granted, I switched as a creator, I've switched my content style, like, let's say all that self dating stuff, like, I used to take myself on a date, like, the talking in the car, like, you know, dancing, like, the chai stuff.
47:28I've changed my content style, like, five plus times. Yeah. And each iteration of them, they all had an era of virality.
47:35Yeah. So it wasn't that one content style was my end all be all.
47:40Some people only stick to one format of content and stick with that their entire life and are afraid to evolve. But as a creative, your innate nature is to express and evolve your soul through various mediums.
47:53And if you stick to the thing that's only worked for, like, five years, ten years, you're not gonna grow as a creative. Like Right. You know, you're going to run into a wall and create creative energy.
48:05She has a mind of her own. She wants to evolve at her own rate, and you just have to surrender to that. Yep.
48:10So I knew that there was a growing pain of restarting because you're like, you're shitty at first. I'm losing tens of thousands of followers because I'm switching my content style.
48:20Does does the algorithm penalize you Yeah. For switching up your content style? It does because what once performed well on your your content and brought in a ton of traffic because of that content style, a lot of your audience is following you because of that format.
48:39And because they know you for that format, if you switch your format to something wildly different, and in my case, going from a piece of content that didn't require understanding any English for the most part, and it was very aesthetic driven, to something that's heavy English, heavy dialogue, heavy, like, using big brain power, you know what I mean, to, like, understand and sit with something on a short form platform that's meant for, like, seven, ten second videos.
49:10So I was making content that was seven to fifteen, twenty seconds long that blew up my Right. Cow. And a lot more mindless.
49:17It was just easy. You scroll and you see it. You could see it, you're like, okay, great.
49:20And now I'm switching to a minute long run times. And you have to sit and watch and think about it. And think about it.
49:26And you have to know English. You have to know English. And you have to know English.
49:28So I'll I shot myself in the foot because my content is being pushed to, and this is what TikTok does, or Instagram. They'll push it to a pool or an audience of 200, 300, 500 people of your followers, and if it does well with them, they'll graduate it to the next pool.
49:45And a bigger pool and a bigger pool before it hits the FYP. Oh, so it starts with your followers first. Yeah.
49:51Followers and, like, people who may like that piece that style of content that you were doing or not. And if they don't like it, they're like, oh, this is completely different. What are the metrics?
50:00Like, they have to hard it or comment, like, say Yeah. So it's like I I don't know, like, the exact metrics, but they'd have to at least have watched, like, over 50% of the video. Oh, okay.
50:09So it's watch time, engagement, but watch time, I think, is the most? Watch time, I think, is a 100% the most, and shareability.
50:16Shareability.
50:18Okay. So even sending it to their friends or Correct. Those things are huge for for people.
50:22Interesting. Interesting. So because I shot myself in the foot and I'm doing this other content style, I was like, okay, it's not really gonna take off.
50:31I had to make the hard decision to not put as much time and energy into TikTok anymore. And I switched to Reels.
50:39And Reels, was still putting out, like, my child transition stuff, and I started blowing up because of that there too. But it seemed as if my reels reacted far better to my skits.
50:51Mhmm. And sure, some of my skits did pretty well on TikTok? On TikTok, but there was a period where I was still learning.
50:58I was adapting. I was, like, trying to teach myself. I was literally learning in public Yeah.
51:03Of, like, this new content style. It was pretty cringey at first. And then my acting got better.
51:08I was studying more. I was learning about screenwriting. Was teaching myself, and I was like, okay.
51:12It finally got really good. And then yeah.
51:16And then, like, it took a life of its own. I found formulas that worked for me, and I was able to understand hooks and psychology and everything around deeper and stronger storytelling. Yes.
51:26And then this new format of content, I've been doing for, like, two years now, and it's done phenomenally well. And pretty much, like, that's the TLDR. And I said, hey.
51:38I'm not pushing merch as much. Great. So, Suraj, how are you gonna make money?
51:42And it's been, like, a very difficult, like, kinda, like, two years because I was like, okay. I'm looking for representation. I was looking for talent agencies, looking for these brands and to work with me, but my content style was not traditional influencer material.
51:55Yeah. So a lot of these creative briefs that these brands will make or creative agencies will make on behalf of a brand, they're going to shop it around to, you know, influencer agencies, people who have a large roster, and we'll say, hey.
52:08Can we wanna plug in fifty, twenty, thirty, forty influencers into this brief. Do you have people who can fit this within auto, fashion, beauty, x y z?
52:17Right? If they can fit into this, you know, creative brief, great. But if the content style of someone is, like, very, very different and, like, you know, they don't have, like, a certain section you can fit them into, it's a very hard one pitch.
52:33And then two, a strong indicator for talent management companies to work with you is if you have strong inbound. I never had strong inbound, like, my entire time as a content creator ever.
52:43Really? Surprisingly.
52:45Did nobody reach out to you? Like, no brands or anything? Not really.
52:47Interesting. You have such an insane following. And that's the thing.
52:51I wanna demystify
52:52the world of influencers. Or and I hate calling myself an influencer. It's like, I see myself as a filmmaker Right.
53:00At the end of the day. But it's it's a weird world, content creator, filmmaker, artist, like, everything. It's just so weird.
53:05But anyway, the world of influencers is just because they have a a huge following, it doesn't mean anything in this day and age.
53:15Because if your audience isn't one niched to a certain, you know, industry, it's harder to source deals that, you know, can fit that audience demographic you have.
53:30Brands are smart. They know a lot of followers don't even see your content anymore. Right?
53:34Mhmm. They wanna know you have an engaged, you know, following.
53:39And they wanna also know that, you know, the content that you're doing is you're able to adapt into whatever it is that they need you to pitch and, you know,
53:52promote. Like, kinda moldable a little bit. Right?
53:54You have to be moldable.
53:56And I know a ton of, you know, men and women influencers, 50 to a 150,000 followers, whatever, making way more than me.
54:05They're making, like, 300 off, like, just UGC, like, brand deals and stuff, like fashion beauty, and I'm like, they're making 400 k, 500 k between YouTube, their TikTok. Yeah.
54:15And is it because they're just super niche down?
54:18And they're also they're they're able to not even that. It's like they're able to adapt their, like like, okay.
54:25You have a brief? I'll do whatever it is that that brief says. Like, I will, like, I will shift my entire content style to fit that.
54:32Okay. This is how I'm gonna this is the script I'll do, or this is like the way I'll integrate the product. The integration is much easier With their style.
54:39With their style. Compared to yours. Totally.
54:42I see. What kind of brands do you think would be suitable for your style?
54:46You know, it's interesting because what my content requires is a harder pitch because brands are intrinsically not creative.
54:53That's why they source creative agencies. Right. But brands, like, they don't see that, like, okay, how can this integration work in your style of content?
55:02That's where, like, my expertise comes in. And I think I could work with any, like, Fortune 1,000 brand easily.
55:11Easily. But it's like, they don't see the vision and being and to them, doing one off deals with influencers, it's like, is that a a good use of their resources and time or do they rather would they rather spend their energy talking to an agency that has a strong roster, and they say, hey, can we get 50 influencers that can just do this thing and have no questions asked, and not have to just, like, shift or, you know, switch too much?
55:36Again, even all that is what I'm saying is a little bit nuanced because, you know, also, I'm not saying that.
55:43Like, I tried reaching out to, like, seven talent management companies, and they all turned me away or go like, didn't, like, wanna work with me because they said, you don't have strong enough inbound, and your content style is
55:55too abstract. Do you have an agency right now?
55:58Do you have any reps? No. What the I don't understand that.
56:01And and
56:02one who I I was on trial with one, and they were like, you have to switch your content style to make it feel more you know dumb it down.
56:11Correct. And it's I was like, nah. I don't wanna do that.
56:15I'm like and I I I realized, I'm like, part of me so it's been a struggle, like, doing that, but then this year alone, I was able to close, like, a couple deals. You know, this this one this this great guy, also Iranian guy, he owns an agency out here.
56:29Nice. He was able to bring me
56:33a dating app deal. Nice. That that could yeah.
56:35I see how that fits. And, you know
56:38you know, thanks to him, you know, I I was able to do my style, my skit style, my narrative style of content without having to change myself.
56:49I said Sick. See, that's that's that's an example I needed. And then It's a good case study for you.
56:54That one oh, I'm so and then Waymo last year, they were able to let me do my content style. And then Waymo again this year, they did like three activations and I said they said, yeah.
57:04We like your style. We want you to do what you wanna do. And I said, oh my god.
57:09I don't I don't have to change myself. It just takes the right ones to take a chance on you, and then once you have the case study of a few, then going out pitching will be a much easier, all that. Way bit way easier.
57:20Brands are stupid because they need to see it first before they, like They're like, okay. Hey. Everyone else is doing it?
57:25We'll hop on. You know what mean? It's the same it's the same with commercial directing.
57:28Like, for me, I've had a hard time breaking into commercial directing because peep because brands will see me as, like, the music video guy. Right. So they're like, yeah, you know, we know you work with, like, all these, you know, big artists and and celebrity talent, but have you shot cookies before?
57:41Because we're a cookie brand. Have you shot you know? Right.
57:44Like, we're it's like, dude, like, it's not about it's it's like, in music videos, it's different because music videos, they see what you've done and they want you to, like they they see your potential and they want you to they wanna use your potential to create something unique and different. With commercials, they want you to basically be able to recreate the same thing over and over and over.
58:01You see what I'm saying? So it's a little bit different. Like, with commercials, it's like, we see you do this.
58:05We want you to recreate that. With music videos, it's like, we see what you've done with this. Now can you do this as well?
58:10You know? So it's Correct. It's it's I totally understand what what for a content creator.
58:15It's like, they just wanna see it, like, okay. That's why a lot of directors need, like, spec work. For, like Yeah.
58:20Spec work helps a lot. For, like, the specific areas that you want to dive deeper into?
58:25You need spec work if you don't have it. Of course. Even even for someone, like, at the highest level, like, they're gonna you you might need it.
58:32Sorry, man. Fucking put your put your ego away.
58:35You know? Exactly. But it's the same thing, but what's what's great for you is, like, you've almost you don't even need specs because now you have the Waymo case study.
58:41You have the dating app case study. Correct. And now it's gonna help.
58:44Like, other brands will see that. They're gonna see how it perform. Like, not just that, but, like, what are the conversations and the comments and Mhmm.
58:50You know, and and also, like, just how does it look in your content style? You know? And they're gonna be like, oh, we kinda like this.
58:55And, dude, it's gonna come. It's gonna be awesome.
58:57Thank you, dude. And honestly, man, like, you know, it just takes a healthy amount of, like, delusion and faith to be like, okay.
59:08Is this gonna work? And there's always still this fear of like, how long will it last? I I I know what you mean, bro.
59:15You know? I what you mean. And even now, man, like, very transparently, man, I still think about looking for a job.
59:23Yeah. I was gonna ask you this. Why haven't you?
59:25It's it's interesting because, you know, I realized how volatile, like, brand deals, like, advertising and sponsorships are. Dude, good creator life is volatile as shit.
59:34It's so volatile, and I'm realizing . Yeah. And which is pretty much an .
59:44And I've never like, to do deeper healing for myself and be able to operate from a, I guess, a a stronger nervous system, that some that will sometimes require a sense of stability in all areas of your life.
59:59Yeah. Yeah. And
1:00:01that's something that I've been seeking. And, you know, I launched a a subscription service, and I had, like, 60 students.
1:00:10I had, like, a wait list of, like, 5,000 people. Was, in December. I was, like, looking for ways to make consistent income, like, between, like, brand deals and doing that.
1:00:18And I said, hey. I'm gonna launch this. I, you know, I launched it.
1:00:24You know, it was great. Like, you know, I had students from, like, all over the world. It was awesome.
1:00:28Was fulfilling. But I didn't feel fully fulfilled because I knew there's still this deep need to wanna tell stories and be in narratives.
1:00:37And it's like, that comes at the cost. Like, sometimes you want stability, but sometimes, like, this passion or this, like, burning fire in in you that you've been programmed that you've programmed yourself to desire and want is sometimes very strong.
1:00:51So, like, it felt like this sense of stability was not fulfilling because I'm like, it can make great money.
1:00:57There's like the potential there was, like, phenomenal. But I I ended up shutting down the community and everything. I know.
1:01:04It's
1:01:05crazy because It's tough, bro. It's like, here's the thing, man. It's like, the things that might bring you stability are kinda gonna be a pain in the ass sometimes.
1:01:12And that's wild, bro, because honestly, I was like, no, dude. I believe in myself. I know that I can, you know, launch a YouTube because that's the only place I haven't grown yet, it's like the trifecta I wanna grow in, is like grow a YouTube channel.
1:01:25Yeah. Yeah. And I kept saying, no.
1:01:28I can I saw, like, YouTubers making, like, hella money Yeah? Yeah. Even now.
1:01:32I'm like, I can do that. You know what I mean? And I'm like and I can still be creative.
1:01:37You know what I mean? And I I just keep thinking, like, sometimes the seeking of stability it's weird.
1:01:44It's a paradox. Yeah. Know.
1:01:46Part me is like, I want stability, but part of me is also like, hold out a little bit longer because you just you you might just get into the flow of the stability within the thing that you've been working so hard to build, which is a great thing. It's true. And you're young too, dude.
1:01:59You're still young. Like, you're not 40, dude. Yeah.
1:02:02I mean, 40 is still young, but I'm saying, like, because you're still in your twenties, you have it's not like you have to rush to get a job. I'm just I'm just telling you, bro. If you got a job now I went through a recent breakup, that's why.
1:02:11Oh, you did? Yeah. Wait.
1:02:13Recent recent? October, I went through the breakup, but then I tried spinning the block.
1:02:18Oh. And then that actually hit harder because we parted on, like we parted on, like, amicable terms, like, it was like a, you know, timeline difference.
1:02:28She was three years older, all that. Oh, yeah. And point is, because she was three years older, after, like, you know, we we split, and it was very logical of a decision, so I didn't really feel my emotions.
1:02:38And then, like, three, four months ago, I kinda reached back out, wanted to rekindle, see, like, know what? I put my egos out.
1:02:45You know what? I'll meet you at your timeline.
1:02:47I'm down to have kids when you wanna have kids. I'll become the husband and father that, you know, is required to do this. If that if that requires me to, you know, mature my dreams into something where I can fit both, you know, your dreams and desires and compromise that, and also do mine but at a slower rate, I'll do that for love.
1:03:07You know what I mean? And the truth is, you know, I I finally met at the compromise. She was like, you know, I'm I'm, you know, I'm finally learning to love myself because of you.
1:03:18I've learned to chase my purpose and I found it because of you. Like, it's not about those things anymore. It's because, you know, I have new visions and goals for myself now and I'm moving on to actually chase my dreams now.
1:03:32And it wasn't about the, you know, the kids and, like, the stability anymore, but I had come to the state of mind where I desire love.
1:03:42Mhmm. I desire a relationship. And to do that, you need stability in a lot of sense.
1:03:49Right? Yeah. And I wanna be that provider for someone, and I realize I'm like, how can I be the provider for my parents when they're old?
1:03:58How can I be the provider for, you know, my kids and putting them to college? And I'm looking at how my life looks right now and thinking that that will it's gonna be, like, this volatile thing forever Yeah.
1:04:10As a creative. But a lot of people say, you know, you're still young, like, the thing is it still takes time to mature. But, you know, I was thinking, like, fuck.
1:04:18Like, who knows? It's the level of doubt that any entrepreneur or creative goes through, like, you know?
1:04:23It's insane, bro. So it's an it's it's a constant battle of doubt, and anyway, so spun the block, she wasn't down, and basically fully closed that chapter out, and I actually started to grieve the process over the past, I'm like, dude.
1:04:37Four It's tough. You know, actually, wouldn't even say sorry.
1:04:40I would say, oddly enough, it's more of a congratulations. Congrats, man. Exactly.
1:04:45Because the reason I say that is you are able to reclaim yourself and you're able to celebrate something that once was very beautiful, incredible form of love, and you're able to take that and start loving the world more, loving yourself more, loving the outside things that you do and people who you meet, and it doesn't have to be confined anymore, and you're able to understand your capacity for love.
1:05:11So it's more of like a congrats, like, you went through an experience that most people never get to experience ever in their life. Yeah.
1:05:18So point is that sparked the idea of stability and wanting to find a job. Yeah. Because it cracked me open and I realized, is there room for me to be a creative director or head of content at, like, some company that, you know, could use someone who has grown through the the creator economy.
1:05:38You'd crush too. And I was like, and I can make, you know, a healthy check, but also do my films and stuff on the side in a way where I don't burn out from doing the thing that I love because I just need it to make money, like how I was doing with my merch content.
1:05:57Right. Right. I don't want to end up hating the thing that I love.
1:05:59You know what I And at some point, a lot of you know I know a lot of YouTubers who wanna graduate into, like, filmmaking, being director, being a, you know, a screen screenwriter.
1:06:12They have to end up pausing the thing that they've been doing for a long time and just head down focus on getting a screenplay greenlit and going into production for like five years, and they come out of nowhere, they're like, oh, by the way, I just made a TV series, or I'm launching a feature film, or whatever. Right.
1:06:29And that's where I was for three years or four years. Because short form content is great, but to heal my nervous system, I need stability, that often comes in working on long form projects, working on bigger projects that you don't see direct results of.
1:06:45Right. Right. Right.
1:06:45Right. And if those things start to feel more important to you Mhmm. I feel like I did the great thing where I built a strong base.
1:06:53Mhmm. Now, I can keep building that base, and I still will, but I think also I'm in a position where I'm like, slowing down and working on short films and bigger projects, like bigger YouTube projects or whatever will be far more fulfilling and just being IP for myself that is like that can be adapted into my own TV show, my own my own feature film.
1:07:20It's like, that stuff takes more time, but that helps you in your healing process because that forces you to practice delayed gratification and any actions and choices that are in line with that character required to do For sure.
1:07:38Those types of projects. For sure. You've seen Rami before on Hulu?
1:07:41Yes. I haven't seen it, but I know exactly what you're talking about. Same thing.
1:07:44You do that. Yeah. You could, like, totally create that version for yourself.
1:07:47And, like, we've seen a lot of, like, artists do that, like, you know, Donald Glover. Right?
1:07:52He started from artists, Atlanta. Like, we see that with so many, like Little YouTubers. Just Rain.
1:07:59What what was it? Just Rain. You know him?
1:08:01Was he the guy who did the show about the high school high high what was it? What's called? No.
1:08:04No. No. It's he he so Just Rain, he's
1:08:08a Punjabi creator from YouTube back in, like, twenty ten days. Blew up. Incredible.
1:08:15Mhmm. He kinda fell off the map for, like, five years, but then he came out with this show called Late Bloomer. Mhmm.
1:08:21And it did really well on a streaming platform called Crave in Canada.
1:08:28Yeah. Yeah. The point is, like, he's an example of someone who went from YouTube creator to TV.
1:08:33And we see a lot of YouTubers now, like, they're directors or whatever on YouTube, and now they're, like, getting picked up by studios and networks to, like, you know, we're seeing it left and So it's, like, that's, like, the pipeline right now. Like, I eventually wanna do my own, like, TV series and my own feature film, but it requires me to start acting and thinking a little bit differently from what I've been doing.
1:08:54Mhmm. It's what's the sewage that content creator I have been for the past five years is not gonna be the one who's going to be doing those things. You know what I mean?
1:09:02Right. And then part of me is also, like, growing following, you know, growing the fame and helping a lot of people through my content is great and all.
1:09:10But there's something about, like, just slowing down and not having to worry about so much about all that.
1:09:17And, like, working at, like, maybe a company that does really, really cool shit and I'm able to command and, like, lead creatively in a way that I feel like I'm making a mark on the world Yeah.
1:09:29Where I can still make that impact. Point is, it's all about just keeping an open mind.
1:09:34Because being too attached to any one outcome in this day and age as a creative is not ideal.
1:09:41Yeah. I agree with you. I agree with you.
1:09:42You know? So just be just be open minded and be okay with the tide shifting whatever way the divine wants to take you. You know?
1:09:49She has a mind of her own, and let that creative heart just be able to move you as you, you know, as you feel
1:09:59For sure. Full circle moment on that feeling. I love that.
1:10:02I love that. You made a lot of great points here. You've said a lot of beautiful things, and I think one thing that a creator is afraid to admit is that they could do this forever.
1:10:13Like, I'm not saying that sorry. Like, what I mean is a creator can do this forever. Mhmm.
1:10:19But a lot of creators, I think, are too stubborn to admit that sometimes, like, the trade off of chaos versus stability is not worth it or not sustainable.
1:10:30Right? Like, I have a lot of friends who have, like, crazy years, and and I I I know you're about to say something amazing. I can't wait to hear it.
1:10:35But I just have friends who have, like, crazy years. They'll have years where they make hundreds of thousands of dollars, and the next year, it's, like, nothing. And I get scared.
1:10:41I get scared, dude. And I wanna hear what you have to say because you're so excited. I wanna hear it.
1:10:46I wanna hear it. I love this so much. This is such a powerful statement you made, Rod.
1:10:50It's like
1:10:51think about this. Your heart desires many, many things.
1:10:56Yeah. Like we were talking about earlier, your heart wants to go in so many different directions. What's powerful is this act of discipline and structure.
1:11:04Right? Creativity is wild, chaotic. She has this fierce energy which wants to just express and be all over the place.
1:11:12But a strong masculine energy within you is helping confine that energy and be able to channel it in ways that are fulfilling and aligned with your values. Mhmm. Most creatives don't know their values.
1:11:24They don't know who they, you know, are or who they want to become, the character they want to embody, and what that actually requires. They may want something.
1:11:31They have a vision of who they wanna be. Mhmm. They don't require the values it takes to become that and what the trade off is.
1:11:37Yeah. Right. That's the biggest thing.
1:11:39Most people do not have the .
1:11:49Because I oh my god. I wanna be an incredible entrepreneur that has, like, 10,000, like, amazing accounts of all these top brands.
1:11:59Right? And I wanna be this big entrepreneur. But in that way of becoming an entrepreneur or building, let's say, an agency or a CPG company or whatever it is, that that trade off might come as no family time, no, you know, no time with your kids, maybe having kids way too late.
1:12:19Right. Maybe, you know, not having a happy, you know, marriage or, you know, love life, You're not seeing your friends, you know, not able to be a present anything.
1:12:31You lack your spiritual disciplines, whatever it is. And they always say, people who end up building incredibly large ventures and companies have terrible mental health.
1:12:45Yeah. Look at Elon. Elon has Look at MrBeast, he says it all the time.
1:12:51Mental health, it's the worst. He says, it's honestly awful. I don't think about it at all, and it's really bad.
1:12:57He's like, my age, you know? And he's like, he says, but if I was thinking about that, then I wouldn't be doing this.
1:13:04If you're thinking about your mental health and balance, we've glorified this idea of, like, oh my god, like, you go all in on one thing, and I get it. For seasons of your life, you can.
1:13:16But if it's all you do and you realize the trade off is, like, sense of privacy, sense of anything, anything, you know?
1:13:23You're trading off everything. You're trading off your mental health, your physical health, your sanity Everything. All that just to potentially
1:13:30have this glorified title as this pop in creator. You know what's wild, bro? Like, I came to this realization when I spun the block to my ex and I said this, I said, what's the point of me going to these heights if I'm not gonna have someone there to witness it with me.
1:13:51Right. Right. Right.
1:13:52Right. Sometimes you get to the end of the destination and it's lonely as fuck. Yeah.
1:13:56It's like, you got there, but what was it for? Right.
1:14:00You know? And I'm realizing, I'm like, there's so much value and simplicity in life, and just, again, going back to your childlike nature, if they wanted to be super seen and, like, heard by millions of people, that's rooted rooted from insecurity from that child who wanted to be famous because they didn't feel seen and heard growing up.
1:14:20Right. So like myself, right? Is that what because I felt like that.
1:14:23A lot of other creators, their, sometimes, their intention is based off, or their programming is based off, like, I want this thing because it's a sense of lack from a place of, you know, their childhood not being fulfilled in the ways that they needed. Yeah.
1:14:37You know? Where if you switch it, like, as a creator, like, I wanna create just for the sense of joy and have no expectations for the results of this turning into anything, then you don't care if there's an audience.
1:14:49You don't care if it blows up or it doesn't or whatever, because you just wanna do it for the sake of expression. You know what I mean? Right.
1:14:56So that's why some of the best books were made not for this intention of, oh, this novel is going to be a worldwide seller.
1:15:05Right. It ends up being one of the best books or whatever, and then it's adapted into a movie, and then it's a the IP is adapted into something, like, incredible, like, series of things, right? But that guy was just doing it as a sense of passion.
1:15:17There was no expectation. This person probably had a job Right. Working at a company or whatever, and he telling his life story, and they adapted that story Right.
1:15:25From, you know, just being. It wasn't like this, oh my god, I want this so bad. Like, this is so attached to the vision, you know?
1:15:31Right. Yeah. So that's what I'm just saying, like, heart wants many things, but it takes discipline to choose the right things.
1:15:38Right. Right? And that's you have to be okay with, like, saying, hey, I'm not gonna live a thousand different lives in this lifetime.
1:15:44I'd rather just choose a few lives, lives that I wanna live. Just go all in on those, but be okay with, you know, the trade offs of that.
1:15:54But to know that you have to have spent enough time in solitude, enough time dating yourself, loving yourself to know what your values are, to know what you want, to know who you wanna become, and understand what's actually real, what's a false projection, you know, projected onto you of like what you're being influenced by.
1:16:11Yeah. Sometimes these dreams of like being wildly successful in in the ways that you think are just imprinted on you by society or just the people you see on your phone or from, you know, friends and family.
1:16:27But you have to ask yourself, like, what is your meaning? Right? Yeah.
1:16:30And people don't they think they know what they want, but it's like, that's not you. That's someone else influencing you.
1:16:39Totally. We're an era of needing to de influence our brains. Yes.
1:16:43100%. 100%. I I I watched your short.
1:16:47It's a very popular one. 4,000,000 followers and I'm broke. You watched it.
1:16:50I watched it. It was amazing. Was on I saw it on YouTube.
1:16:53You dropped this last year, little over a year ago. And in my opinion, it's it's the most vulnerable, honest take on being a creator. It's very real.
1:17:00It's it's it's the most I've never seen anybody be this honest because the problem with influencers and creators is, like, everybody glorifies it too much. Right. You were I I I encourage anybody who wants to be a creator.
1:17:11If you haven't started yet or if you're, like, in the middle of trying to make it as a creator, you need to watch this short. It's phenomenal. And I appreciate the craft you put into it.
1:17:19I have some I have some questions I wanna rapid fire with you about Absolutely. Because it's there's too much, too many good things to talk about and discuss, and we've already touched on some of it. Of course.
1:17:28But these things are gonna be like these things to me are gonna, I think, help provide a lot of clarity and value to someone who wants to get it to potentially be someone like you. Right? Absolutely.
1:17:36So first and foremost, you said something interesting. You said that becoming an artist or creator is something you signed up for.
1:17:46Like, what did you think you were signing up for when you wanted to be a creator in the first place?
1:17:51I signed up for this thinking if I don't make content, I will literally not amount to anything because I will probably off myself because of what else am I meant to do.
1:18:08I've never had a job. I've never, like, done anything else. Like, I've I've literally never worked a corporate job.
1:18:14Like, you know what I mean? Like, I've I've from high school to just being just being creative my entire life. So it's like, I signed up for going against the grain in all aspects of life.
1:18:24And by doing that, I realized, okay, if I don't do this, what am I gonna amount to?
1:18:31I will go crazy. I won't be able to express myself Right. Or I won't be able to process my emotions in a in a healthy way.
1:18:38I signed up for this being vulnerable on the internet, being authentic, as authentic as can be in various stages of my life.
1:18:47Right. And that comes at a cost. Yeah.
1:18:51That comes at a cost of, like, you know, being isolated from people who don't do that. Right.
1:18:57Right. It just comes at a cost of, you know, not not having stability, not, you know, you're going in a direction you have no idea where you're going.
1:19:09Right. You know? And I knew that.
1:19:12Right. Like, I keep making a conscious decision every day. I'm making a piece of content Mhmm.
1:19:18That, like, this is going to lead to something, but I don't know where. I'm super unsure. There's, like, you know but that's anything in life.
1:19:25Let's just be honest. But we signed up for this. Anything that we're doing in life, we've signed up for it.
1:19:30Mhmm. Like, every decision and conscious choice is a accumulation of our decisions and choices that got us here in the first place. Right.
1:19:38So, no one else signed us up for this. Right. We have to take radical accountability that, like, our life is our life because of us, and can change because of us.
1:19:48Right. Right. Totally.
1:19:50Another thing that you we you kinda just touched upon, but it's like talking about comparison. And there's this famous quote, comparison is a thief of joy.
1:19:58Right? In in this short film, you said, we look at mister Beast, look at David Dobrik, we look at Emma Chamberlain, and we think, oh, we can be that.
1:20:06But what you said that I loved was that it's not about being them, it's about being you. Right?
1:20:12And so what I wanna ask you is, like, what is the danger in trying to chase someone else's blue blueprint?
1:20:18The danger in trying to chase someone else's blueprint and what I want to caution a lot of people is if you're looking at, like, for example, an influencer who's trying to teach you their ways of, you know, going viral or becoming a director, being a creative or whatever it is, or being an artist or whatever, that is already setting you up for failure because now you are starting to put trust in the outside world and lacking faith in yourself.
1:20:49Mhmm. What ends up happening is you'll go so far down someone's path and you'll feel like, oh my god, I am living a life that's not uniquely mine. Mhmm.
1:21:00And you'll end up resenting, you know, yourself, other people because, you know, you thought by following someone else's path that will lead you to success, but you completely ignored your skills, yourself, your strengths, your abilities within you that you could have tapped into Right.
1:21:21That would have led you to something far deeper into alignment.
1:21:28Yeah. And what I mean by that is like, where you would have been able to shine better, where your service and, yeah, service to humanity would have been realized.
1:21:43And I think if you're trying to follow else, like someone else's game plan, you'll be wildly miserable because you realize like that life is not yours. Yeah. And we wanna be empowered to live a life that we feel that is ours.
1:21:55Right. But I think, like I said, you look up to a lot of these people, but truth is you're you're seeking yourself through those people.
1:22:06Mhmm. You know? You see a part of your potential within them Mhmm.
1:22:10But that doesn't mean you have to follow their exact path. Right. Because the truth is oh, this was what I was trying to say earlier.
1:22:17You should never, like, look at someone and say, hey, that is the way. That's the only way I should do it. Right.
1:22:23And if someone's preaching to you, this is the way you should be doing x y z, granted, there's nuance in what I'm saying here, so take it for granted salt because sometimes there is strategy, all these things like that, but when it comes down to purpose, don't believe anything anyone says, like, ever.
1:22:42Hear me out. This sounds crazy, like, wild because even anything that I'm saying, like, don't believe anything that I am saying throughout this entire podcast until you can verify it by your own experience of truth. Right.
1:22:52I see what you're saying. Like, don't take it as your full Truth. Truth.
1:22:56Yeah. I see what you're saying. Exactly.
1:22:57I see you're saying. Quite honestly, everything that I can be saying is complete fucking bullshit. Right?
1:23:02But the truth is No, you're speaking facts. It's like, no, the truth is it's like, until you can verify it by your own experiences of truth, then you're able to be like, okay, that fits.
1:23:13So looking at someone else's path and saying that that is my teacher, that that is what I should be doing, is actually misleading you to an insane amount of disappointment.
1:23:24Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
1:23:25Because you're realizing, like, what most people should be doing, and you should be looking at things in the world Mhmm. Be it this podcast, be it anything else Yep.
1:23:34Is not looking at what people are speaking as truth, but looking at them as suggestions onto yourself as you being the truth for yourself. Right.
1:23:45Does that make sense? Yeah. 100%.
1:23:47Be your own truth. Be your own truth. This this leads me to my next question.
1:23:50Mhmm. Another amazing thing you said. You said that
1:23:53for creators, there's a cycle of proving your worth and waiting for a brand or agency to save the day. Right? Yeah.
1:23:59And people think, okay. Once they get a a brand or agency, all of sudden I made it.
1:24:04This is my moment. Right? But do you think that creators are too dependent on those external forms of validation?
1:24:10A 100%. I mean, creatives all creatives I know, it's like, it's the human condition.
1:24:18You're creative because you're insecure. You're ex 100%. You're like, you are an artist because you're insecure and you don't know how to process your emotions, and this is the only medium you know how to process your emotions.
1:24:29That's it. And you're doing this because, like, you are a hurt little boy or little girl, and you're looking for that validation and healing, and the only way you can communicate this is through your medium.
1:24:42So everyone on TikTok is just hurt. Everyone's, like, hurt to some degree. Yeah.
1:24:46Yeah. Absolutely. See, everybody wants value.
1:24:48Here's the here's the here's the truth, and people might be calling me wild for this, but, like, as long as you're a human on Earth, you are suffering. Like, everyone in here is collectively suffering, And the whole well, in my tradition, it's like our goal is to liberate our souls and be able to, you know, free ourselves from this death and rebirth.
1:25:07Right? But because you any goal in life, any out like, attachment that you have in life is a will result in suffering because now you're chaining yourself.
1:25:18You are attaching yourself to this world and things of this world and the opinions of others and labels, meaning this and that. Mhmm.
1:25:26But truth is, like, that's you're you're digging your own hole in in doing that. Right?
1:25:31Like, that suffering gets deeper and deeper and deeper. So even me, it's like, oh, I I sometimes think, oh, maybe the right manager, the right people will help me out. But, like, truth is, like, no one's coming to save the day because there's nothing to save you from.
1:25:47Right. You know? That's beautifully said.
1:25:51The only person who can save you is yourself. Yeah. Right.
1:25:54And even then, it's like, what's there to save? Like, you're you're here. You're you are as you are.
1:26:01And like, I think learning to be accepting of who you are and be okay with, okay, I need to evolve not for the sake to become better or, you know, you're worse or whatever. Like, you are serving a purpose of you as you are right now, and that serves you who you are.
1:26:19Until you your energy needs to evolve, that will require something different, but it's like, it's not becoming better, becoming worse, or like, needing to save, like, we don't need any of those, like, forms of vocabulary. We're just learning to just become and be. Yes.
1:26:33That's it. Like, there's no we don't need to add labels of, like, the labels that are steeped in, you know, fear and and, you know, fame and success.
1:26:44Right. Like, there doesn't have to be, like, these metrics in it. We can just learn to just we're all learning to just be for the sake of being.
1:26:51That's
1:26:52it. 100%. You're continuing to make content.
1:26:55You're still creating. You've evolved so much, and you you have such incredible content, man. It's awesome.
1:27:00Thank you, buddy. Of course. Thank you.
1:27:04When you're making content, what's your strategy when a piece of content doesn't perform how you may have hoped it would? So for me, I, you know,
1:27:14I realized, like, even right now, like, my skit content sometimes doesn't perform too well. Like like, I just posted something and, you know, it was barely cracking, like, an x amount of views that I really wanted.
1:27:26Yeah. I was like, oh my god. What's wrong?
1:27:29Right? At some point, you can blame the algorithm. Okay?
1:27:32Yeah. You can you can blame things all you want. Play victim.
1:27:35Like, oh, it's it's the post time. It's this and that. And sure, these things play a role.
1:27:40But at the end of the day, if you really think about it, it just means making stronger content.
1:27:49Right. Because content is nothing but science. I truly believe this.
1:27:55It's human psychology. And the best creators will tell you this, there's a science behind creativity. It is science.
1:28:02There's certain frequencies that flow within the way you speak, the way you position lights, the way you frame things, everything holds a certain vibration that can be subconsciously picked up by a viewer.
1:28:17Right. Every detail matters. Right?
1:28:20That's why films are like as expensive as they are because there's so many minute details that the average user the average audience look at me, I'm like tech bro now, average user.
1:28:31Like, that's I've been around so many tech bros. It's crazy. Anyway, but the average audience, like, they're not picking up on these things, but art directors, production designers, like, these guys are all looking at certain things that are subconsciously gonna make you, you know, think, like, okay, hey, you're you're more invested.
1:28:47That's a science. Right. Down to color, down to sound, down to projection of voice, everything.
1:28:53Mhmm. It's all how are you projecting your frequency. Right.
1:28:57Because that is going to be picked up on a physiological and psychological level by the other person. And you need to understand how people absorb media content and what their behaviors are.
1:29:09Mhmm. If you don't understand human psychology and people's behaviors and patterns Mhmm.
1:29:14Then you're just, like, posting for the sake of posting. And great, if that's your intention, like, just to post for the sake of posting, but if you have the desire for an outcome, which is okay, I'm not demonizing, like, shouldn't have outcomes and whatnot, like, dreams, goals, like, all that.
1:29:29Like, chase all those things. Get make the bag, like, make the get the followers, get the fame. It's just don't be attached to that being as fulfillment.
1:29:38Do it for the sake of doing it, but knowing that there's more to life than just that. Of course. Okay?
1:29:42So the point is, if you understand that, hey, I want this goal. I want to build a million followers.
1:29:49There's a strategy behind that. Yeah. And you have to understand like your own strengths and skill sets to be able to achieve that.
1:29:59Right? Or you outsource that to people who do understand Yeah.
1:30:03Those set skill sets. You may not be a strong, I don't know, editor, but you're you show up great on camera, like, you have a lot of great energy, this and that.
1:30:14Like, use that to your strength, and then find someone who understands editing, like, phenomenally well, and understands, like, the psychology of editing, you know, when to let certain things breathe, how much music, what's there, all the different tonalities, all that. Right?
1:30:29Or just learn, you know? Forever be a student.
1:30:33There's so much more to learn. And be okay with learning more because, I mean, that's far more valuable than, I mean, the outcome anyway.
1:30:42Like, that's skill. Just keep learning. Like, don't be left behind.
1:30:46Right. We're all getting left behind anyway. Right.
1:30:49I mean, AI is going crazy. I know. Let's not even get there.
1:30:52I know. I love it though. I honestly love AI.
1:30:56Huge maybe I'm like, just in the Bay Area, so I just see so much of the beautiful potential of it. It's fucking amazing. Really?
1:31:03I love it. You're not scared about AI at all, taking over creative creative works or Why be scared? I don't know.
1:31:08Do think people Human humans are adaptable. But do do you see, like, the out that new, like, outpouring of, like, UGC AI creators and things? Okay.
1:31:15I mean, just adapt. Become a stronger creator. I love it.
1:31:19The world is gonna change regardless. Just become stronger. Yeah.
1:31:23Right. You know? You're still you, like, that's that's not really gonna change.
1:31:27And it's like, humans are gonna want humans at the end of the day. Yeah. I I do agree with that statement.
1:31:32Like, there's some things in this world that from the dawn of time to now, that stay consistent in human nature. Right.
1:31:40Need for love, need for connection, need for, you know, community. You're right. These things don't change.
1:31:46They are the fabric of reality. It's like the laws of, you know, physics. Mhmm.
1:31:52Some things just Those things just don't change, you know what I mean? Sure, until they're disproven, like, people can go on like a philosophical banter and be like, oh, well, you know, until it doesn't have an x y z, but truly, like, there are innate parts of being human that are just fundamental to, you know, us being able to adapt and evolve, and that's your who you are at your core.
1:32:18We're resilient we're resilient people, you know? Yeah, we are. And and honestly, like, people are always scared of everything.
1:32:24It's like it's Anything new. Anything new that exists. Anything new, but it's like, dude, it's a tool.
1:32:28Like, it's actually like, right now, you have zero excuses.
1:32:32You have zero excuses. True. You know?
1:32:35You have zero excuses.
1:32:37Fact. Don't fuck this up. Please don't fuck this up.
1:32:40Like, you are in the best era of time. People are like, oh, we're in the worst era. I wish I wish I was born in the I was born in the wrong generation.
1:32:46I'm like, nah, you are born in the right generation. Facts. Like, this is you are so privileged to be alive right now.
1:32:52It's literally ridiculous. Facts. I I, I again, I truly believe that, you know, we are in a really great time where we can, yeah, just be be able to adapt, learn, and take action.
1:33:07Like, you can take action on anything, you know?
1:33:10Beautiful. Where where does Suraj see himself in five years?
1:33:15Man, you know, I can always have a vision of who I see myself as and what I'll be doing, But I've learned that I can have the feeling of in my mind's eye of who I wanna become and where I'll be.
1:33:30The vehicle that'll get me there may change. Right? In five years, you know, I I still see myself being creative.
1:33:41You know, maybe it's maybe it's my own TV show. Maybe it's my own feature film. Maybe I'm married.
1:33:48Maybe I have a child. Maybe I'm taking care of my parents. Maybe I'm serving humanity in a different way.
1:33:54Mhmm. Maybe I'm, you know, an executive at a top company. I don't know.
1:33:59And I'm okay with not knowing because it's not for me to know. I let her divine will guide me wherever she pleases and I know that it's meant for me as it's supposed to be and again, for me, never against me.
1:34:17So in five years, I don't know. I'm gonna still just I still wanna keep helping people.
1:34:22Like, know I wanna keep helping people and having fun. Like, that's life, you know. How can I serve and have fun?
1:34:29Facts. Like, that's as much as you need to know. As long as you're still doing those things, how it looks, where it is, what location it is, like, so unattached to those things.
1:34:37Right. Because like, you get disappointed if you're like, okay, in five years, I'm gonna be here and have this and this.
1:34:43You know how many people have done that? And they're so wildly disappointed because I thought I was gonna be married at 31 or Right. 29 expectations, and there's And then, like, you get to that and you're like, mad?
1:34:53Like, that's not a good feeling to be in. Yeah. Yeah.
1:34:55You don't wanna be mad. You don't wanna be resentful. You wanna just
1:34:58embrace what Go with the flow. My my friend has a saying. He's like a guru, like a yogi, and he says he's he has this quote that's he says, everything is always working out for you.
1:35:08It's it's always for you. Yeah. Always for you.
1:35:11And and it's like it's great when you are able to do that. It's like
1:35:15you're able to like, not feel like you need to be in control. You just give up your worries. And when you're able to give up your worries, like, we're able to just be more in the present moment.
1:35:24Oh, this is a better answer. In five years, I just want to be feeling as as present as I feel right now in this moment with you.
1:35:34love that. I love that. I think that's what I wanna be present in five years too.
1:35:38Yeah. I swear to God, man. Yes.
1:35:40Always thinking about the future or the past. Yeah. Fuck all that.
1:35:43Wanna be as present as I am with you right now. Dude, you're awesome, man. Oh.
1:35:47Bye. Okay. We got one more thing.
1:35:50Please. You ready for this? Absolutely.
1:35:54The vibes are about to change. Yes. Oh my god.
1:35:58This is sick. It's a new vibe. So, Suraj, got a deck of cards here.
1:36:03Okay? Okay. In this deck of cards, there's 50 questions.
1:36:06All I want you to do, I just want you to use whether you wanna shuffle it, pick card on top, whatever whatever intuitively feels right to you, pick one card, read the question, and answer from the bottom of your heart. That's it. Can you do that?
1:36:18I can do that. Let's do it, man.
1:36:24You said just one. Right? Just one.
1:36:28So the one that fell out would be the one that I I love it. What's the most profound piece of advice you've ever given to someone else?
1:36:36Damn.
1:36:38This is a good one for you. Woah. What what's the most profound piece of advice?
1:36:43The problem is you've given a lot of profound advice. So you go on your page, every fucking video you're giving I've made like like 4,000
1:36:50videos, and every single piece of content is, like, life changing advice that's helped millions of people. So, like, this is hard. I don't even remember how this shit I've written over the past, like, five years.
1:37:00It's ridiculous. Just pick one. It doesn't have any the most, but one may be more recent.
1:37:05Mhmm. I think this one just stands the test of time, and we kind of talked about this, but I think I just wanna drive this home. Immerse yourself so deep in the process of something that you love without any expectations of results?
1:37:22Just trust. The reason I say that is because once you do immerse into something that you love, you're one able to dissolve anxiety, dissolve a lot of forms of depression.
1:37:37Mhmm. You stop numbing yourself through forms of stimulants, food, right, content, you know, people, right, you start tapping into the thing that you actually love.
1:37:53Right? Your core essence of who you are. Once you do that, the present moment unlocks to you, and that's where a lot of magic is born Mhmm.
1:38:06Or is tapped into or rather un unraveled. And because you're tapping into that, this idea of expectations dissolves with it because now you're just at your most purest form, which is this love within you.
1:38:20And now you don't care if it's, you know, what this present moment is gonna turn into, who you're gonna be with, and is there something better, FOMO, x y z?
1:38:31Like, is anything better than this moment?
1:38:36And when you do that so deeply, you will find in the absence of all these distractions, in the absence of all these highs and lows, that a lot of the answers you're looking for are right there.
1:38:53But in that moment of doing the thing that you love so deeply without any expectations of results, you start to become a vessel for these epiphanies and realizations and all these things that you're so confused and, like, anxious about.
1:39:11They all start coming to you. And I think a lot of us are wanting to find answers and tap into this, what do I do?
1:39:20What do I do? Like, who should I become? But it's in doing the things that you love and you're in this flow state, you're able to be that vessel for divine knowledge, vidya, to come to you and channel into you.
1:39:37And you know if you do the thing that you love enough, you'll start to trust that that is the answer and trust that that will show you the path or whatever answer and direction you're looking for, whatever next step and turn to take, that you trust that that will be revealed to you.
1:39:55Right? And you're probably, I don't know what I love. A lot of people say that.
1:39:59Don't know what what I love to do. I don't know, like, what passion I should start or, like, how I should be in the present moment. Right?
1:40:07That's a thinking game. They're trying to think about what it is that they love. But that's the mind.
1:40:13What you love is in the heart. Mind and heart are always separated, but you're trying to put them in you know, they're divorced from each other, but the goal is to make that channel very, very clear.
1:40:25So when you immerse in the thing that you love, you have to start letting go of all the things that, you know, you're you're doing for performance.
1:40:33You're doing things that you think are going to make you feel loved, but you have to start doing things that remind you of love, make you feel more like love, you know? And I don't know how everyone can get there on their own.
1:40:47I'm not gonna give that piece of advice because everyone can tap into the frequency of love Yeah. In their own way.
1:40:56But I know that if you do, it sounds so, like, you know, hippie dippie, but truly, like, when you do surrender to love, it's magical, man.
1:41:09Yeah. It's truly magical. Yeah.
1:41:11It's awesome. And love is not something that's outside of you. People are like, okay.
1:41:15Well, that means I should go hang out with the girl that I I'm I'm dating more, or I should go hang out with my parents more. No. No.
1:41:21No. Often, the thing that you love is dissolved by things that are outside of you that you think will harness that.
1:41:30You'll you'll know. Yeah. You'll know.
1:41:33It's not something you can explain because true love, deep unconditional love is beyond words. Beyond words.
1:41:40You know? And once you do find that love, that embodiment of love, strongest next piece of advice that goes along with that is see that in all things and in all beings.
1:41:57Like, see it everywhere. See that version of you, that love everywhere.
1:42:04That divine love in everything because that is what will truly heal your world and change your perception and frequency of how you view reality.
1:42:16That's what we all want. You're far more powerful than you think. Yeah.
1:42:21You're very powerful. You just have to
1:42:24trust yourself enough to know that. Trust yourself. Love yourself.
1:42:29It's all from within, man.
1:42:31As I always say, love yourself. Take care.
1:42:36Suraj, thank you for being here, bro. It's an honor. It's a pleasure.
1:42:40You are a true vessel of wisdom. You have so much I mean, it's such a young age. You have such a deep understanding of yourself in the world, and I'm happy you're making content.
1:42:49I'm happy the world gets to witness your existence. So thank you, man. Arad, I'm truly grateful that,
1:42:55you know, God was able to bring us together in this lifetime out of the billions of other possibilities that could have happened. And it was all for a divine purpose, and I'm just truly blessed to be in the presence of someone who is one, able to hold space for conversations like this, but also use your platform to empower and serve humanity in the ways that you feel confident doing, in the ways that you feel fulfilled doing.
1:43:20And it's rare because when I watch your stuff, when people are watching your stuff, they're subconsciously getting permission that they can do the same because of you.
1:43:30Thank you, bro. And it's truly a blessing to see this and be next to you and share this energy in this present moment together because this is what it's all about.
1:43:41Like, you know that trend? That's the whole point. Yeah.
1:43:46Dude, you're amazing. Thank you. Thanks, brother.
1:43:48Thanks for being here. Thanks, everyone, for watching. You all wanna help us out.
1:43:51We're trying to build up the show, build up the channel. If you want more amazing guests like Suraj himself, you all know what to do.
1:43:57Subscribe, please. Help us out. Take care, everybody.
1:44:00Thank you so much. Get us on all platforms. We're on Spotify.
1:44:03We're on Apple. Rate the show, give us a five stars. What else do they need to do, Suraj?
1:44:09Take the part that resonates the most
1:44:11and then share that with the people that you know who need to hear it the most. Because sometimes this might not be for you, but you know someone who really, really needs that suggestion onto themselves.
1:44:24Remember, you're both the teacher and the student upon yourself and for others, just be that be that channel of good in the world.
1:44:32Just like Arad is here.
1:44:35Thank you all for watching. Thanks you all for listening. Thank you, Soerge, again.
1:44:38Thank you, Moe. And most importantly, can you help me give a big round of applause to ourselves?
1:44:45To ourselves, baby. Yes. To ourselves.
1:44:47To ourselves. Absolutely. Cheers.
1:44:50Thank you. Cheers, brother.
The Hook
The bait, then the rug-pull.
Sooraj Saxena opens by reframing content as a frequency game — not a follower game — and the title makes the bet explicit: followers are worthless, watch time is the new currency. What follows is a 105-minute argument by example, told through a decade of his own pivots, refusals, and quiet exits.
