Mark Rober Reveals the Secret Science of Viral Videos
A 43-minute interview where Mark Rober walks through the exact storytelling structure, pacing discipline, and failure mindset behind videos that pull 20 million-plus views.
Posted
4 years ago
Duration
Format
Interview
educational
Views
23.5K
874 likes
57 · 43
Big Idea
The argument in one line.
Mark Rober's videos go viral because he treats every second as a storytelling decision: tease the payoff early, bury the viewer in setup and failure, then reframe failure itself as fuel instead of identity.
Who This Is For
Read if. Skip if.
READ IF YOU ARE…
You make videos and want a concrete reason some of them get shared and most don't, not just 'post consistently.'
You're weighing whether to spread yourself across platforms and formats or go deep on one thing for years.
You want an actual storytelling structure, not just 'be authentic,' for turning a slow process into a video people finish.
You're curious how an ordinary engineer built real relationships with people like Jimmy Kimmel and MrBeast without already being famous.
SKIP IF…
You want camera, lighting, or editing software specifics. This episode covers story structure and career pacing, not gear.
You're looking for a quick list of growth hacks. Most of what Mark describes took years before it paid off.
TL;DR
The full version, fast.
Mark Rober built a 20-million-subscriber channel on one rule: a video has to make the viewer feel something, amazement, humor, or outrage, or it won't get shared. He gets there with what he calls Jenga storytelling, teasing the payoff in the first 30 seconds, then rewinding to build tension toward an ending viewers already sense is coming, cutting any quarter-second that doesn't earn its place. Characters like a squirrel named Fat Gus make dry setups relatable, and scripts are rewritten sentence by sentence until they're lean. The career discipline matters as much as the craft: Rober kept his day job until 10 million subscribers, deliberately caps his own output pace, and reframes every failure as information instead of identity, which is how he's shipped one video a month for a decade without burning out.
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A rapid highlight reel teases the episode's biggest moments, Jimmy Kimmel's house keys, quitting Apple, the Fat Gus reveal, before Jon explains he watched nearly every Mark Rober video and picked seven clips to build the conversation around.
01:10 – 03:46
02 · Finding and Testing Viral Ideas
Mark walks through the origin of the record-breaking elephant toothpaste video, built for a young fan named Fletcher who had brain cancer, and explains that a video goes viral when it makes the viewer feel something strong enough to share: amazement, humor, or outrage.
03:46 – 09:55
03 · Jenga Storytelling and Characters
Mark names his structure 'Jenga storytelling': tease the payoff in the first 30 seconds so viewers know he isn't clickbaiting, then rewind and build tension toward an ending they can already sense. He also explains why he turned a squirrel into a character named Fat Gus, personality creates an emotional hook that footage alone can't.
09:55 – 14:58
04 · Scripting Every Quarter-Second
Every line in a Mark Rober video is written out, and a half hour of writing often gets cut down to four and a quarter sentences. He treats every quarter-second as disposable unless it's earning its place, because unlike TV, a YouTube viewer has 20 other videos open in the sidebar.
14:58 – 21:10
05 · Jimmy Kimmel and Mainstream Media
Kimmel's producers found Mark's watermelon-trick video and booked him when he had a quarter million subscribers, and Kimmel later told him 'you're a star' before convincing him to co-develop a Discovery Channel show. Mark explains why he didn't quit his Apple job until he hit 10 million subscribers, for both the income and the daily structure.
21:10 – 27:24
06 · The Treadmill: Pacing, Burnout, and Picking Projects
Mark describes creator burnout as a treadmill: sprinting, books, tours, merch, speaking, feels exciting until the dopamine hit wears off and you're still running at that pace. He deliberately keeps his own treadmill at a jog, and explains why splitting one idea into four weaker videos is worse than concentrating it into one great one.
27:24 – 33:35
07 · Team Trees and Team Seas
Mark and MrBeast raised $23 million in two months for Team Trees by pricing the ask at exactly $1 per tree and partnering with the Arbor Day Foundation instead of distributing seeds to donors directly. Team Seas, the sequel, applies the same $1-to-impact model to ocean plastic with the Ocean Conservancy and the Ocean Cleanup.
33:35 – 39:43
08 · The Super Mario Effect
Mark coined the 'Super Mario Effect' after secretly running two versions of a coding test on 50,000 followers: docking 5 meaningless points for failing cut completion by 16% compared to a neutral 'try again' message. He applies the same reframe to his own engineering failures, three years on a bullseye dartboard, five years on a domino robot, treating each one as information instead of proof he isn't good enough.
39:43 – 43:22
09 · Growth, Legacy, and the Teaching Dream
Watching his own earliest, awkward videos next to his current output, Mark says the visible growth over a decade of monthly uploads is proof of the same growth mindset the Super Mario Effect describes. He closes by admitting his real dream job is still to become a high school physics teacher once people are done watching his videos.
Atomic Insights
Lines worth screenshotting.
A 50,000-person test found that docking users 5 meaningless points for failing cut task completion by 16% compared to a neutral 'try again' message, which Mark Rober calls the Super Mario Effect.
Jenga storytelling pays off the thumbnail's promise inside the first 30 seconds, then flashes back to build tension toward an ending the audience already expects to resolve.
Every quarter-second that isn't earning its place gets cut. A script can go from a half hour of writing down to four and a quarter sentences.
Naming an animal, a squirrel called Fat Gus, does more for relatability than any amount of technical polish on the footage itself.
Mark Rober didn't quit his job at Apple until he had 10 million YouTube subscribers, protecting both income and the daily structure a job provides.
Splitting one idea into four videos that each get a million views is worse than concentrating it into one video that gets 20 million, because focus has a multiplicative effect on reach.
Rober keeps his own output pace deliberately slow, a jog, not a sprint, by saying no to podcasts, books, and speaking gigs that would speed up the treadmill he's already on.
The elephant toothpaste reaction went through four scaled-up prototypes, desktop to 4-foot to 10-foot to 20-foot, including a failed run where a 2-ton rig blew apart, before the final version worked.
Team Trees raised $23 million in two months by pricing the ask at exactly $1 per tree and partnering with the Arbor Day Foundation instead of mailing seeds directly to donors.
Jimmy Kimmel's booking came from his producers finding a Mark Rober video on their own, not from Rober pitching the show.
Mark Rober still edits all of his own videos despite running a channel with 20 million subscribers.
Rober secretly ran two versions of the same test to isolate one variable, the framing of failure, and measured its effect in isolation rather than guessing.
Takeaway
Virality Is an Emotion, Engineered on Purpose
STORY ENGINEERING
Mark Rober's videos work because he treats story structure, failure, and pacing as engineering problems, and the same discipline that built a 20-million-subscriber channel also kept him from burning out.
02Finding and Testing Viral Ideas
A video goes viral by making the viewer feel one strong emotion, amazement, humor, anger, or awe, strongly enough that they want to share it with someone else.
Rober scaled the elephant toothpaste reaction through four prototype sizes (desktop, 4-foot, 10-foot, 20-foot) over two years, including a failed attempt where the 2-ton rig blew apart, before the version that worked.
The emotional payoff of a video is set up roughly 18 minutes before it happens. Everything earlier in the video exists to build the story that makes the payoff land.
03Jenga Storytelling and Characters
Jenga storytelling pays off the thumbnail's promise in the first 30 seconds, then flashes back to build tension toward an ending the viewer already expects. The suspense comes from the wobble, not the surprise.
Giving a subject a name and a personality, a squirrel called Fat Gus, does more for relatability than any amount of footage quality. Viewers invest in characters, not specimens.
Mark openly says he isn't an exceptional builder, plenty of people build better than he does, but he is a disciplined storyteller, and that's the skill that made his channel grow.
04Scripting Every Quarter-Second
Every spoken line is written out and edited by hand. A half hour of writing can get cut down from five sentences to four and a quarter.
Because YouTube viewers always have another video one click away, pacing has to stay dense throughout, not just build to a strong ending the way TV can afford to.
Story is the one part of the process Mark says you can't skimp on. The setup has to exist before the payoff can mean anything.
05Jimmy Kimmel and Mainstream Media
Kimmel's booking came from his producers finding a video on their own, not from Rober pitching the show. The relationship opened because the work traveled.
Mark didn't quit his job at Apple until he had 10 million subscribers, protecting both his income and the daily structure a job provides.
A single TV appearance eventually became a Discovery Channel show and co-hosting duties, evidence that small early opportunities compound over years.
06The Treadmill: Pacing, Burnout, and Picking Projects
Burnout happens when you keep sprinting on the treadmill, podcasts, books, tours, merch, after the dopamine hit for doing it all has already worn off.
Splitting one idea across four videos that each get a million views is worse than putting it all into one video that gets 20 million. Concentration has a multiplicative effect on reach.
Mark says no to most opportunities on purpose, podcast, book, most brand deals, because picking fewer, bigger bets protects the quality of what he does say yes to.
07Team Trees and Team Seas
Pricing an ask at exactly $1 per unit of impact, one tree, one pound of ocean trash, makes a donation legible enough that kids with a few dollars of allowance participate.
Team Trees raised $23 million in under two months by partnering with an established execution organization, the Arbor Day Foundation, instead of trying to plant trees themselves.
A shared, measurable cause gives a creator's whole audience a reason to hold each other accountable. Donors describe themselves as 'on Team Seas' the way they'd describe a team they root for.
08The Super Mario Effect
In a 50,000-person test, docking users 5 meaningless points for failing cut task completion by 16% compared to a neutral 'try again' message. The only variable that changed was how failure was framed.
Reframing failure as information instead of identity, a video game pit, not proof you're a loser, is what lets you keep trying instead of quitting after the first setback.
Some of Mark's own builds took years of failure before they worked, three years for an automatic bullseye dartboard, five for a domino robot, and at no point did he treat the delay as evidence he couldn't do it.
09Growth, Legacy, and the Teaching Dream
Visible growth over a decade of monthly uploads, from an awkward first video to Jimmy Kimmel's couch, is the same growth mindset the Super Mario Effect describes, applied to an entire career instead of one failure.
Mark's actual dream job is still to become a high school physics teacher. The YouTube channel is a means to get people, especially kids, excited about science and engineering, not the end goal itself.
Glossary
Terms worth knowing.
Jenga storytelling
Mark Rober's term for revealing a video's payoff early, then rewinding to build tension toward an ending the viewer already expects, named for how Jenga's outcome is certain but the wobble is still enjoyable to watch.
Super Mario Effect
A phrase Rober coined for how framing failure as neutral feedback, like falling into a pit in a video game, instead of personal failure increases how long someone sticks with a hard task.
Team Trees / Team Seas
Creator-led fundraising campaigns Rober ran with MrBeast, pricing environmental impact at $1 per unit: one tree planted for Team Trees, one pound of ocean trash removed for Team Seas.
“It's Jenga storytelling in the sense that you know how the game of Jenga is going to end. It always ends the same, but people still enjoy it and they want to play it.”
Names a reusable structural concept in one breath, an instantly quotable framework.→ TikTok hook↗ Tweet quote
36:30
“By the way, these are completely meaningless fake internet points. No one would ever see these. There's literally no value to them except it was minus five points.”
A counterintuitive data point, a 16% swing caused by a totally fake penalty.→ newsletter pull-quote↗ Tweet quote
24:25
“That's what burnout is, where it's like you're not getting the reward to your brain, but you're still putting in the effort.”
A sharp, universal one-line definition of burnout.→ IG reel cold open↗ Tweet quote
16:15
“I have a key to his house. I don't know if I'm not supposed to say that. Sorry, Jimmy.”
A surprising celebrity detail with a built-in curiosity hook.→ TikTok hook↗ Tweet quote
25:18
“If I split an idea into four videos that each got a million views, or if I just put that in one video, I can make that one video get 20 million views.”
A counterintuitive creator-economics claim backed by real numbers.→ newsletter pull-quote↗ Tweet quote
39:10
“You don't do that for a video game. So don't do that for your own life.”
A tight one-liner that reframes the entire failure segment.→ IG reel cold open↗ Tweet quote
14:58 – 27:24denseCareer strategy and relationships: Kimmel, Apple, burnout
27:24 – 33:35steadyCreator-led philanthropy: Team Trees, Team Seas, MrBeast
33:35 – 43:22denseMindset and growth: the Super Mario Effect, legacy
The Script
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This is an exclusive, me talking about this, because we haven't even announced this yet. Jimmy Kimmel literally gave you his house keys? Mind blown.
That was incredible. Why would I quit my real job at Apple? You've been uploading once a month for 10 years.
You need to friggin' appreciate what I went through to get to this point. Oh, that is so un -PC. This is like a female and she's pregnant.
I've been calling her fat.
What's up, guys? For this interview, I watched nearly every single video that Mark Robert has put out, picked the seven most interesting clips to ask him seven questions to go behind the scenes and inside the mind of a YouTuber who has over 20 million subscribers and has worked at NASA and Apple. Mark, welcome to the show, buddy.
Thanks. I'm excited to find the seven coolest parts of my YouTube channel. Most interesting and I think hopefully most revealing.
Okay. And I want to show a few clips that I want to understand more of the process behind the scenes. So I won't get too much context for this one, but it should look familiar.
The elephant toothpaste video, what inspired that? I thought I'd also ask about how you tell a story visually, because I think you're so good at that. Sometimes, you know, people who enjoy the channel will reach out.
A lot of times I don't see when they reach out, but in this case it made it through to me. There's a kid named Fletcher, he had brain cancer, and he wanted to talk to me before he went into, like, brain surgery. So I was like, I should throw this kid, like, the world's most epic birthday.
And so, like, what do you see there? It was like the conclusion of what would be considered the world's most epic birthday, right? So we had like, you know, two world records, like a foam pit, a 25 million Orbeez pit, a freaking skateboard ramp into a pool with like all this.
Like we just went crazy. Instead of like doing something kind of nice for like 100 kids, we're like, let's do all that for one kid. And it was just like, honestly, it's probably the most rewarding experience of my YouTube career.
was like, we did one and then we did a sequel. Because we did one first, basically it's Elephant's Toothpaste, and a lot of times it's one of these Erlenmeyer flasks. And then they go, they shoot up into the air, right?
So we're like, what if we did just like a massive one? But as it is with like a lot of my, it's like, it's a great idea, but there's like so much work that goes into making that a reality. So many tests that have to happen.
You know, we scaled up from a desktop version to a four foot version to a 10 foot version. so that we could do the 20 foot version. And each time we were learning more and more, how do you reinforce this?
We did it, the first year we did it, fires off and there's so much force, it lifts this two ton thing like five feet into the air and the bottom busts out. So we're like, it still went like, I don't know, like a hundred feet in the air, really tall. But then of course, you know, as an engineer, I'm like, ah, I feel like.
I could one -up that. Like I want to know, I didn't get to answer that question, how tall could this be? So we used it as a, you know, there's no such thing as failures, just learning opportunities.
And then we went back a second year, which is what you see there. That weighs 10 tons. It's like completely made of steel, could survive a bomb.
And this time we were successful with it. Goes in, goes like. 250 feet in the air, 25, you know, story building.
And we got to answer the question, how tall could you make elephant's toothpaste go? And that is the answer. So, yeah, I'm always trying to like up my game there because, you know, there's, you know, the story I tell with how I set something up and establish the concept and frame something, you know, we, it wasn't just, let's do this thing and put it in the air.
That's at minute like 18 of this video, right? Everything before that is like other cool things, but it's building up the story of this kid who has brain cancer. And this is the payoff, like how you set up that moment.
And one of the tools you have is like the way you film it and visually what you do. So in that one specifically, I hired my buddy Nurk. He's a drone pilot.
So we got some super dope drone shots of like, you know, it goes up, the drone comes, you know, you've seen these drone racing, go super fast. So we just got some, a lot of comments were about like how epic that footage was. You know, for a video to go viral, it has to evoke some visceral response from the viewer.
And, you know, whether they think it's amazing, whether it makes them laugh, whether it makes them, you know, feel anger or outrage, they just have to feel something and then they'll be more likely to share it. And one of the things you can feel is amazement. And if visually I can film something in a way that just fills you with awe and just like, like my brain is so tickled by what I just saw on the screen there, then you're more likely to share it.
It makes more of a lasting impression, which is my ultimate goal because I want, you know, my ultimate MO is to get folks, especially the young folks, excited about science and engineering and education. And the more I can just make you feel something, the more stoked you will be. for that to be your future career path if you think it's cool.
Absolutely. I'm so glad you mentioned that was at minute 18 because I think so many people think about the payoff, the end of that journey. How do you make people feel something during the journey?
How do you establish the problem, the tension to ultimately get that payoff to be even more inspiring as a result? There's something I've heard people call like Jenga storytelling, which is like the start of my videos usually is like, I'll tease that. And I'll show them, like, this is what we're building up to.
There's an amazing thumbnail that got you to click on it. I want to pay off on that thumbnail in the first 30 seconds so you know I'm not clickbaiting you. But a lot of times in my videos, you know, if you've watched a bunch, you know a lot of times I'll be like, you know.
But before we get to that, we first need to go back eight months. Because that's when, you know, the package was first stolen off my porch. Or that's when the squirrels started eating all my bird seed.
I show you, this is where I landed. But you don't even understand, dude. There's a much bigger story behind this.
Just go with me. And then I take them back in time and I build up to that. But it's Jenga storytelling in the sense that you know how the game of Jenga is going to end.
It always ends the same, but people still enjoy it and they want to play it. Right, right. Because they're watching the wobble of the tower.
How exactly did it wobble? It's just enjoyable, even though you know the ending, right? Every, like, quarter second is sacred in my videos.
Like, if a quarter second isn't doing something for me, I'll cut it out. So, you know, for the squirrel video specifically, I think I had, like... you know, a year's worth of footage if you add up all the cameras to condense down to 15 minutes.
So it's like, you know, the reason the pacing is quick is because I know you have 20 other options in the sidebar to click away to, right? TV is a lot more passive. You just watch, you're on your couch.
But with YouTube and your own devices, tons of options. Absolutely. I have to make it engaging the whole time.
So while the ending payoff, that was cool. There was also a freaking 25 million Orbeez pool at minute 15. And at minute 12, we did a devil's toothpaste explosion that like blew up in front of a house, right?
And at minute eight, we were riding a private jet to get to the place. So it's not like just like boring up to that point. I just try and cram it full.
Just so when you get to the end, you're like, mind blown. That was incredible. Like, what else does this person have?
Absolutely. I think setting context, setting the problem. and introducing the characters, which sets up my next clip.
I'll let you hit the play button on this one. I knew when you said characters what was coming down the pipe. Last year, I named one of the squirrels Fat Gus because he loved to eat and was a little on the hefty side.
But then halfway through, I noticed he had nipples, which it turns out means he was actually a girl and a pregnant one at that. So it was just a whole PR disaster. And I switched the name to Fantastic Gus and rephrased a few other things.
But to be honest, Fantastic Gus just doesn't roll off the tongue like Fat Gus. Amazing. Fat Gus.
I feel like Fat Gus is like more famous than I am at this point. He's an icon. She's an icon.
She's an icon. If you could give context on that clip for the few people who haven't seen it, but also what other tricks like that where even naming a squirrel can allow us to relate more to the characters to understand the payoff in videos and stories like that in general. Yeah, I think one thing you're kind of keying on is like you're like focusing on elements of story, right?
Which I think First of all, just to back up, because a lot of people think they like my videos because I'm a good builder, and that's actually not true. I'm okay at that.
There's a lot of people who are better than me. But I will say, I'll admit I'm a pretty good storyteller, right? There's a lot of people who made videos about squirrels in their backyard before me, but none of them named the squirrels like that, right?
And just when you... When you can buy into the character and I can personify them, you know, Fat Gus being like, they're really clever, but kind of lazy, but, you know, squirrel people just like, it just resonates with people so much more. And they're so much more likely to share the video, you know?
And so in that case with Fat Gus, like literally the way I said it in there, where it's like, I had these squirrels, I'd been filming them for like a month. I told one of my friends or I showed a picture. I was like, look at this fat one.
How hilarious is that? And she's like, are those nipples? And I'm like, Yeah, and they're like, I'm pretty sure if it's female, then that means they're female and they're pregnant.
I'm like, no. So I Googled it. And like, what happened there was exactly.
And I was like, well, I should bring the viewers on this same journey with me of discovery. Because up to this point in that video, I kept joking about how this is like the fat dude who's super lazy. And then it was like, I had this moment that I was like, oh, that is so un -PC.
This is like a female and she's pregnant. I've been calling her fat. So then after that, the joke was like, I would say like, oh, you look great.
Like, you don't look a gram over, you know, over 700 ounces or whatever. So I just love that idea. And obviously this is, it's just a squirrel.
Did I ascribe maybe like more personality traits to them than like, you know, a researcher would? Probably. But I mean, heck, you see the footage.
She's doing all those things. She really does seem crafty. And when she, all the other ones will just like eat the food.
But when she eats, she'll like lay down, just like shovel it in her mouth, on her stomach. It's freaking hilarious. But to really lean into that and make it relatable to people just gives the videos so much more like power and oomph.
And it just resonates that much more going back again to what makes a viral video. You just have to feel something, visceral response. Naming the squirrels and making them characters creates that visceral response.
And it's fascinating to hear the comparison of you saying, I think about every quarter second, but then also saying, I need to take time to bring them on the journey of discovery. It's because that is so important. Most people don't realize this, but every word I've ever said on my YouTube channel, unless it's extemporaneous, more like doing an experiment when I say something.
is at my feet written out on a piece of paper. Like I will spend a half an hour getting five sentences down to like four and a quarter sentences. I try and state everything as succinctly and just like as directly as possible.
So like to be able to vlog, like I couldn't do that. And I want to keep it a lot more interesting than that. So I really, I just make it really, really dense.
But the story is something that you can't skimp on. Like you have to have that set up and then that payoff. Yeah.
And I want to dig deeper just because I feel like these lessons are applicable to writers, teachers who are listening to this. What other tips do you have to tell? better stories that make us feel something, context, problem setting, characters, any other things, Mark, that you've noticed in your career that have really helped your videos get more reach?
Yeah, it's interesting, though, because it's like I am, at the end of the day, I am a mechanical engineer, so slow your roll, all right? I'm not like some fancy writer. I think a lot of this is I maybe just do it without like intentionally doing it.
Certainly the thing I can say I definitely do is like set up. the problem. A good example of this maybe is like liquid sand hot tub.
I did a hot tub where you put some air in, it's just sand, put some air in and it becomes like a liquid. It's like liquified, right? But I talked about how it's like, it's really hard to do.
I saw this done, but there's no plans for it. So I scoured like all these patent drawings. I'm like trying to figure this out.
And then I did like 25 prototypes. And then eventually we got to the point where we have this. And then I show it, you know, but so that people know that this, when I show the thing matters and that it was difficult, I want to give the context for like everything that got to that point.
Same with like the world's largest jello pool. I did like a 15 ton jello pool. And that was like.
so difficult and it's like I brought everyone on the journey so you can appreciate the kid belly flopping at minute 14. You need to friggin' appreciate what I went through to get to this point and it's really hard to make jello at large scale because you have to like, we had to boil everything in these like 55 gallon drums but then you have to refrigerate it.
You can't have a refrigerator that big so like, how do we solve that? And it's like, ah, this is the conflict, right? What do we do?
Oh. What if we went to the right location, the right latitude, which my brother has a backyard in Utah. And there's three weeks, if you look at the Almanac data, where it's cold enough at night, but not quite freezing, and then warm enough in the day to have a party.
So let's use his backyard as the refrigerator. And just, you know, that was backbreaking work. We had to do it in layers.
And so I bring people on that journey in part because I want freaking credit for all the work I did. But if I can do it in an entertaining way, which I always do, like I make the story something that's engaging, they know what's coming. You almost like want it to be teed up.
You know what I mean? You almost want it to have, because then the payoff just matters so much more. So that, to your point then, it's like introducing the conflict and how like it was hard to get here.
Let me show you how hard it is. It's like something I almost always do because it is hard. And I want people to appreciate that.
And failure is okay. A lot of times I'll show my failures. But in the end, we got here.
And that is the engineering design process. It's like the hero's journey, but condensed. The hero's journey, yeah.
And fat Gus instead of Luke Skywalker. That's right, exactly. Mark, one of the things that's been so enjoyable about following your career is seeing some mainstream media appreciation of your work and of science.
I want you to play this clip, and I have a few questions. Kettle's very popular, and it's where I saw this video of a watermelon trick he pulled on a bunch of kids. Oh, my gosh.
There he is. Watch this. He pulls the watermelon out, and it's perfectly shaped.
You want to know how I did it? It's very clever, right? So I asked Mark if he could use his considerable brain power to come up with some simple April Fool's prank ideas, and he said yes, he would.
So please welcome Mark Rober, everybody. Here he is. That was cool.
How did you end up on the Jimmy Kimmel show? And what was that experience like? Yeah, it's weird.
It's bonkers. Cause like at that point I had like a quarter million subscribers, which isn't that much. Jimmy saw that video and normally it's the producers who find someone and then they will, you know, show it to the host, Jimmy Kimmel.
And then he'll be like, yeah, that's fine. They can come on. But Jimmy specifically said, Hey, let's get this guy on the show.
Oh, my God. Jimmy Kimmel DM'd or reached out directly? No, no, no.
He reached out to his producers and said, hey, make sure you get this guy on the show. But I mean, the punchline is like, so I went on his show then. And now it's like, I have a...
like a key to his house like I hang out like when I'm in LA I stay at Jimmy Kimmel's house like he's become a friend I feel like he picked me out of obscurity and like he had faith in me it was like dude you have something he sent me an email it's like you're a star like you may not realize it but you're a star and that was even still I don't feel like that's true but like he saw that in me first and now I'm doing a TV show with him for Discovery Channel called Revenge of the Nerd I'm the nerd.
And basically, it's like the glitter bomb. We prank people who violate social norms. So if you don't pick up your dog's poop, we make a catapult.
We launch it back at your house. If you don't park your shopping cart, we'll make a robotic shopping cart to chase you all around the parking lot, right? So we're collaborating and working on projects.
And I'll call him. I just talked to him two days ago. I had something I wanted to bounce off of him.
So I don't even know how that happened. That was bonkers. He has a bull.
game named after him. And he asked me, I'm making him an actual t -shirt cannon, like a cannon that shoots t -shirts. And we're going to do it at the halftime game of this bowl game.
So it was surreal going on his TV show. It was like crazy, right? Because it's like a different world.
But now it's like I've gone back on his TV show and I'm on the couch now. It's such a journey and one I still don't understand. It's crazy that like we're friends and I still don't get it, but.
It's been really, really cool. It's also interesting because it's like a... it juxtaposes like these two mediums and it's like real quick less than 10 seconds here if you're enjoying this video it mean the world if you hit that subscribe button and ring the notification bell if you haven't already or if you have just hit that like button every little thing helps with the youtube algorithm with all the work and research that i pour into these videos plus i bet you won't want to miss what we've got coming at you next week all right back to the video mr beast and i are going on his show on november 1st to talk about team c's which is like an initiative we're doing Where $1 removes like a pound of plastic from the ocean.
We're trying to raise $30 million. But we are going, compared to like an actual movie star, like we're just not as charismatic, right? YouTubers.
And Jimmy and I, no, but I appreciate you saying that. We have a different thing that we bring to YouTube. I think there's an authenticity that matters more.
Even though we're authentic. It's like it's just interesting to juxtapose those worlds like me going into that world You don't see a lot of youtubers on that couch because it's just kind of like two different worlds, right? But it's interesting to like straddle them both and I think what I do kind of does work more for in both worlds Or that doesn't always translate But yeah, that's been just a freaking lovely experience all around.
And even to put that in context, Jimmy Kimmel had Logan Paul on his show. And then only a few weeks ago, like said all those things, like negative things about Logan. Like his praise for you as a YouTuber, like I feel even means that much more to have you on the show.
And that's not a figure of speech, is it? Jimmy Kimmel literally gave you his house keys? Yeah, yeah, like I have a key to his house.
Do you ever swing by unannounced? Like, what's up, Kimmel's? No, no, I don't.
I don't abuse it. And I'm like, his kids love me and stuff, and I love his kids and stuff. I mean, it's like a code.
I have a key to his house.
I don't know if I'm not supposed to say that. Sorry, Jimmy. I think it's cool.
I won't tell him the code. What other advice has Jimmy given, like being from traditional media, you being from quote unquote new media that, you know, has stuck with you over the years? Well, he told me like the fact that we're doing this TV show took like a lot of convincing because, you know, I think it's no secret at this point.
That's like as a YouTuber, I will reach a lot more eyeballs. Right. I will get paid a lot more.
And I will have full creative control. So when like TV comes along, it's like, hey, fewer people will see this. We won't give you full creative control and we'll pay you less.
So it's like, where do I sign, right? But his point is like, and it's true. If you go into a random restaurant, like anyone over 40 has no idea who PewDiePie is.
And PewDiePie is the biggest YouTuber in the world, like by subscribers, right? And it's also like my grandma, like. She doesn't care that it's like, oh, I have a YouTube video that gets 100 million views.
But if I was on the local Wichita News commenting about my chili, she'd be like, oh, my grandson was on TV. Eventually, it won't matter. But as it stands right now, there's just some portion of the population that if you want to work with more brands, if you want to get your message out more, you have to have that TV element.
And Jimmy's right about that. So that's why I'm doing this like TV show with Discovery Channel and like kind of dipping my toes in the water there just to kind of like see. Yeah.
But it took a lot of convincing on his part so I could like kind of see his perspective. Even my other YouTube friends are like, why are you doing something on TV? Like, what are you doing?
You know, I'm like, I got to try it out. And Mark, to put that in perspective, Jimmy sent you that email that said, hey, I think you're a star, which coming from him means so much. you have 10 million subscribers and you're still working a full -time job.
Am I remembering the context of all that right? Yeah, yeah. That's about when he said, I mean, he said I was a star when I had like 3 million subscribers or something.
It's, you know, I have 20 million subscribers now. It's true. I didn't quit my job until I had 10 million subscribers.
But that's like, that's evidence of like, it's not like, I don't have like low belief in myself, but it's like, I don't, I don't know. I still feel, it's not even imposter syndrome because like, I enjoy what I do, and I feel like I am pretty good at it, but I don't know.
It's still hard to wrap my head around that. If I go out now, it's very rare that someone won't recognize me. But I still feel like, I don't know, I'm just a dude, which is why it's like, why would I quit my real job at Apple doing mechanical engineering if I'm just a dude who happens to be putting up these videos?
I don't consider myself a star. But at some point, you're like, all right, this is going pretty well. This seems to be resonating with people.
I should really lean into this. I don't know. Do you remember the day that you left?
Apple? Yeah, at Apple. What would the day have been?
It was about two years ago or three, two years ago. I don't know the exact day. I had gone a little bit.
I had gone to like 70%, so I wasn't working full time. But the videos at that point were just so big in such productions that I'm like, my concern is that I'd be like, without like a structure of a job and stuff. Also that I'd just be like sitting at home, like surfing TMZ in my underwear all day, like without like structure and stuff.
And I just wouldn't be interacting with people, but my team is a little bit bigger now. All my builds, I'm usually collaborating with someone, so that hasn't been the case at all. It's been super fulfilling to be able to just really focus and make these full -time.
That tees up my next clip, which is you talking about your team. Oh, look at this. I still edit all my own videos, which people think is crazy, but it's like, I like that.
I think that's the fun part. I have a really small team. I just hired my first full -time person.
You buck so many trends. I feel like when YouTubers go one way, build teams, launch merch lines, launch a bunch of secondary and tertiary channels, you're like, nope, I'm going to focus on mine. I'm going to upload once a month for 10 years.
You've been uploading once a month for 10 years. Can you talk about the treadmill of being a creator and why you haven't tried to bust it up to 10 miles per hour? Yeah, I think that's exactly what it is.
It's like a treadmill. And I think that's what people do. If you consider it a treadmill, like you could go at a sprinting pace and do the book and do the podcast and launch the merch line and go on tour and hire 20 people.
And that's super exciting. And you can do that for a little bit in the same way that you can sprint for a little bit. But what inevitably happens is like the dopamine hit of that wears off.
and you're still sprinting on this treadmill. And to me, that's what burnout is, where it's like you're not getting the reward to your brain, but you're still putting in the effort. I've been very protective of my treadmill speed, and I've just kept it at a jogging pace.
And I said no to so much, including the podcast. I just got merch less than a year ago at like... I don't even know, 15, 16 million subscribers is when I first started doing merch.
And it's because I have a company who can do it and they're really good. But I just freaking laser focus on my monthly videos and I swing for the fences every month. And I just put all my effort into that.
And there's, I don't know, I think there's something that comes from just laser focusing on a thing. And so you don't spread yourself thin. It's like the whole is greater than the sum of the parts in the sense that like, it has a multiplicative effect.
So I think you're better off, you know, if I split an idea into four videos that each got a million views, or if I just put that in one video, I can make that one video get 20 million views. So it's like, I just have these concentrated just nuggets of coolness that I try and put out every month. I can spend the time to make those as good as I feel like I want them to be by just not doing anything else.
That could be a distraction from that. So when I tend to do something, I kind of pick my shots. So I did a month, a class with monthly, which is like an engineering class.
And that took four, five, six months to create and to do all that. But that turned out really well for me. I am working on a secret project now that I'll launch in like a year ish that.
That's all I'm going to say. Don't try and Oprah this out of me, all right? Because you're not getting it from me.
But that's another, like, I'm going to pick this shot. I feel like it's going to do well. I feel like it's going to be important and meaningful.
But I'm not doing the podcast. I'm not doing the book. I'm not speaking.
Even this, I very, very rarely do this. I appreciate it, man. What's the biggest opportunity you said no to?
And how did you deal with the FOMO? I don't really have FOMO in that sense. I don't.
really focus and look at it as FOMO. The biggest opportunity I didn't do, I don't know. There's just like a lot of brand deals, a lot of speaking stuff, a lot of, I mean, even the TV stuff.
I could have done a lot more on TV, but I don't look at it as FOMO because I feel like, look, this is my path. This is the way I've decided to do it. And so, you know, granted there's an opportunity cost, but as long as I feel confident that the one I did choose is a better choice than the other thing.
It's like, well, I could only pick one or the other, so I don't really have FOMO because I picked the better of the two, you know what I mean? It's such a refreshing mindset. Wow.
I wanted to move over to the next clip because you mentioned Team Seas, you mentioned Team Trees, and I want to play this clip. I don't even know what this is. Team Trees was, I mean, I enjoyed it, but that was a ton, man.
I mean, me and Mark Grover worked on that for like... eight months leading up to it i don't want to over -exaggerate maybe it was seven or six and uh i was like it started with me wanting to plant a million trees and uh i was reaching out to all these youtubers that you know do environmental stuff and the gist was just like you're crazy you're like this just isn't possible you just can't plant a million trees do you remember the first time i do You met Mr.
Beast. Oh. And then the first time you had a conversation.
Yeah, I remember both of them. Both were at Apple. Sorry, Tim Cook.
It's on your time. The first time I talked to him, I made a video how you could power a supercar like with Volkswagen. It was like a sponsored video with lemons.
So we made the world's largest lemon charger and we like powered part of a supercharger with it. And Jimmy saw that, Mr. Beast.
He was trying to do the same video of powering a bunch of lemons, but he's not an engineer. So his... Didn't work.
So he hit me up on Twitter and said, lol, you know, maybe we should collab or we should talk. So I called him. I was sitting in an Apple conference room.
We kind of like talk shop. And that kind of started our friendship. And then maybe it was a year.
two later, you know, someone on Twitter, he said, what should I do for 20 million subscribers? Because he used to do like, for five million, I'll give you five million pennies. For six million, I'll give someone six million cookies, whatever.
What should I do for 20 million? Someone's like, you should plant 20 million trees. Then the next comment was like, you should do it with Mark Grover and he'll build a robot and you guys can then plant 20 million trees.
So we called and laughed about that and they were like, but like, could we do this? You know, what? And that I remember exactly where I was.
I walked outside my building at Apple and I was on the street and we were talking. And I was like, dude, I think what we should do is we should partner with someone, like someone who already does this. And let's just raise money and get it like where a dollar is a tree.
That was like our hope from the beginning. Talked to the Arbor Day Foundation. They're like the gold standard for this.
And they said they could do it for that rate. And we're like, let's just freaking do this, man. You know, because at first we were like.
You could buy seeds and then kids could like plant these, get 10 seeds and they could plant them. But like, this is going to be a disaster because they're going to plant like invasive species trees on land they don't own. It's going to like be a terrible thing.
We're like, no, we need some pros to do this. So that was just, like you said, it was a lot of hard work to set it up. Matt Fitzgerald was also like us three kind of work.
He's not a YouTuber. He's like, this is what he does doing projects like this, like goodwill type stuff. Yeah, we did it.
We launched it. The goal was 20 million trees by 2020. It was like two months.
We got like billionaires got into like a pissing match where they were like, you know, the guy, CEO of Shopify did a million bucks. And Elon Musk, I think, did like a million and one dollars. And then like someone else come in.
Like it was amazing. They were like one up each other. And we got 23 million trees.
We raised 23 million dollars, which is like bonkers in like two months. And that was not just because Mr. Beast and I, it's because we got all of our friends together.
It's amazing when everyone comes together, what can be done. Which leads into perfectly what I'm wearing here, which is Team Seas. So this is the sequel to Team Trees.
So we've been working again for eight months with some really reputable organizations in this. So the Ocean Conservancy and the Ocean Cleanup. And a dollar keeps a pound of trash out of the ocean.
So a dollar means one less pound of trash in the ocean, mostly plastic. So that's cleaning up beaches, cleaning up rivers, and then actually going into the ocean and cleaning up some of that stuff. So it's sort of a sacred responsibility because like with Team Trees, the median donation was something like $4, which means that's a lot of frickin' Tooth Fairy money, right?
These are kids who are... saying, hey, I think this is important and I want to do this. And so we wanted to come back with an equally reputable organization, kind of a fist bump to Mother Earth.
This is cool because some of the challenges we face won't be solved in our lifetime. But this is one that we can solve. The Great Pacific Garbage Patch is big.
But like in ten years with the right funding like we can remove that out of the ocean and this is something that like I think Everyone can agree on we shouldn't have plastic in the ocean So many things we can't agree on but I think we can all agree We shouldn't have plastic in the ocean. So, you know, this is our attempt and like hey, let's let's shine a light on this and Let's help Get the plastic out of the ocean.
You know, we have these river intercepts that stop the plastic from going to the ocean. And then we also have all these beach cleanups. Let's get the plastic that's in trash on the beaches, you know, out.
I'm pretty stoked about it. I'm optimistic. I think it's going to be another cool thing.
And, you know, granted, of course, this in and of itself doesn't just like, you know, planting, you know, team trees didn't solve climate change. But the point is more like. anyone who donates a dollar to Team Seas or to Team Trees, that's now part of their persona.
And they're on Team Seas. So if they see someone littering at the beach or just littering, they're like, yo, yo, yo. That's not what I'm staying for.
I'm on Team Trees. So it's kind of like helping the future generation realize that we've got one earth. We really ought to take care of it.
We're not going to be able to... last too long here if we don't start thinking more sustainably. So to be able to move the needle in that direction even a little bit feels like a cool opportunity and a responsibility.
It's so fascinating to hear about these closed -door conversations between you and Jimmy and how inspiring it is that you're using that time to be like, hey, what can we solve? that's messed up in the world right now. What are some other things that you and Mr.
Beast talk about that excites you, inspires you, that maybe has changed your mind in some way? Yeah, well, we did Team Trees and then Team Seas. So Team Bees, maybe?
Bees are an issue. We have to keep with the rhyming. So that's how we know what cause to move on to next, whatever rhymes.
I think these are like the two biggest. I mean, Team Trees itself was kind of a big experiment. Yeah.
it turned out well. So because it turned out well, we're kind of like, all right, well, what's next? Like, we should keep doing this because it, you know, it went well.
Team Trees was $20 million or 20 million trees. This is 30 million. So we're going to 10 more million dollars we're trying to raise.
We'll see. But I would say, again, in the same way that I try and focus the videos and Jimmy's the same way, let's pick the banger ideas and just really focus on them. I'd say it's the same way.
We don't have a list of like 50 causes. Right. And like, I don't even want to brainstorm a bunch more stuff until we can really focus and kick butt on this one.
It's interesting to hear you say going from 20 million for Team Trees. $30 million as a goal for Team Seas, but then you're talking about not wanting to raise the treadmill up in terms of going harder. How do you manage your process so that even when you're doing these big philanthropic initiatives, you're not burning out?
The treadmill specifically is for my own output. And all of my videos, I'm always trying to level up and do a bigger thing. But I also like, it's because I've got more capabilities and I'm better at it now too.
And I have, you know, maybe someone else to help with this or that. The reason why we want to go from 20 to 30, it's like, of course, we always want to push ourselves more, but we have more creator friends. Everyone saw how successful Team Trees was.
So we feel like with the same amount of work on our end, that doesn't mean we're working $10 million more. That just means we have a confidence to execute $10 million more effectively this time, right? Well said.
So I do want to say, by saying I set my treadmill to jog, that doesn't mean I'm just like phoning it in. That just means I'm like careful about how I remain efficient. Speaking about your process, this was another fascinating thing from a TED Talk.
To make the case that perhaps they aren't that different than us, I'd like to tell you about a plumber I first met when I was eight years old. He was Italian.
What is the Super Mario effect? So the Super Mario effect is like a phrase I coined. I kind of stumbled upon it because I put, I asked like my followers to take a test because I said I wanted to see if they could learn how to code.
So it was like this code block program where it's like, move right two squares. If you hit a wall, move left. And basically you're like, drag these, then you hit run, you see if your car can run through this maze.
So we did it, 50 ,000 people did the test, but I didn't really care if they could learn how to code or not. I secretly administered two different versions of the test. And in one of them, if you failed, it just said, hey, you didn't do it, minus five points, go ahead and try again.
On the other version, it said, hey, you failed, go ahead and try again. In other words, the only difference was that in one, we took off five points.
And by the way, these are completely meaningless fake internet points. No one would ever see these. There's literally no value to them except it was minus five points.
And in the other, we didn't. And that only change led to a difference of 16 % of whether or not you would complete the maze. and therefore learn more.
And I'm just like, that's bonkers. If this is a true thing, if framing the process of failure in this different light, if it had that much of an effect causing you to stick with it more and therefore learn more and then eventually pass, where else might we see this in our life? And that's when I realized, oh, you know where you see this is in gaming and playing video games, growing up playing Super Mario Brothers.
picks up a controller, Super Mario Brothers, falls into the first pit and is like, oh, I failed. I fell into the pit. I'm a loser.
I don't ever want to do this. I'm just not good at video games, right? Instead, it's like, no, okay, there's a pit there.
Okay, next time I gotta remember. Gotta come out with more speed. I gotta jump a little.
You're excited to try again. Like the failure has inspired you and motivated you to try harder and to learn more because you're not framing it as failure. It's like a game.
And so that's literally how I view my channel, the projects I do. This is part of being an engineer. Failure is the process.
If you're not failing, you're not reaching far enough, right? Think of all the rockets SpaceX blew up before they even had their first successful one, right? It's because they were pushing themselves so hard and so just challenging themselves.
And so it's the same with these, you know, I had some videos that like, I didn't, it took me three years for my automatic bullseye dartboard, throw a dart, bullseye, dartboard moves, you get a bullseye. It took me five years for my domino robot to set up a whole thing. And at no point was I like, oh, I'm just not good enough, I can't do this thing.
It's like, well, no, I just failed, and now I know one more way not to make an automatic pull -side dartboard, right? So it's like, it's a proverbial sliding green shell. When you get hit by the shell, what do you do?
But in life, unfortunately, a bad breakup, you get a bad grade on a test, you don't get the promotion you wanted. And we immediately tell ourselves, oh, we're just, we're not good enough. We're losers.
I don't want to do that thing. We internalize it. But it's like, you don't do that for a video game.
So don't do that for your own life. And I think that's genuinely how I look at my failures is just like, they're just learning opportunities. Get back on the feet.
I know a lot of this is outside of my control. It's always a dice roll. I try to stack the dice in my favor, but at the end of the day, it's a dice roll.
So it doesn't mean I always, you know, hit them out of the park. But when I don't, what can I learn from it? Boom.
Okay. Let's, let's. Do it again.
Let's pivot. Let's move on. Let's figure it out.
It's so refreshing to hear that. That tees up our last clip here. This is old school.
What's up, YouTube? As you guys know, I like to post videos of things that I think are cool that you can't find anywhere else on YouTube. So today I'm going to tell you how to flip a coin and get tails every time.
This is beautiful. I don't know why you showed me this, but let me just roll with this because I think I know why. Which is like, what an awkward human being that is, right?
This is what I love about YouTube is you get to see this growth. You get to see the Super Mario effect in action. You get to go back and see the first video.
There's a few before that that are even more awkward where it's like... You know, I haven't found my voice. I haven't learned how to like talk to the camera.
And I freaking love it that you can see that happening, you know, as opposed to someone who just comes on the scene fully polished. And I mean, that's been my MO. I made one video a month for almost a decade now.
By the time you release this, it will be a decade. And it's a beautiful thing for you to see me grow as a person. And never once, you know, I look at that and I probably should have said, oh man, I'm not cut out for this.
But I didn't. I was like, all right. And I would watch myself back.
And then the next month I would try a little something different. And now it's to the point, you know, where I'm on the Jimmy Kimmel show and I'm doing these videos that are like massive productions. And I feel comfortable with it.
And I would be blown away if that me could see me today doing this interview. I'd be like, you're crazy. But that's just incrementally keeping that treadmill on jog.
I've just stuck with it. And when stuff like that happens, it's all a learning process. And you just get better and better.
And I just think it's... There's no better example of like growth mindset. Super Mario Effect is very intertwined with like growth mindset, right?
And no better example than YouTubers and going back to their catalog at the beginning. I love it so much. I love, yeah, going back, toggling to their oldest video and seeing that.
I was just going to ask to close. What advice would you give to people who are in your shoes from 10 years ago? And is it true that, Mark, after all of this, being on the Jimmy Kimmel show, doing Team Trees, about to do Team Seas, having so many millions of subscribers on views, you still want to go back to high school and become a teacher?
Yeah, that's my dream job still. Yeah, I mean, I'm really passionate about getting folks, especially the young folks, stoked about science, education, engineering. When I was a kid, there was like...
Mr. Wizard's World, Bill Nye, but there weren't any cool engineers. So hearing kids that watch my channel and then they get inspired and they're out in their backyard making something.
They're making their own squirrel obstacle courses or modding their own Nerf guns. That makes me so stoked to hear. So it's true.
I want like teaching is my passion. Getting people stoked about this is my passion. Having the YouTube channel as just a medium for that, like a means to that end.
I just feel really fortunate to be in this position and it's something I take seriously and I want to just keep killing it. But eventually when people are tired of watching my videos, I absolutely will go be a high school physics teacher because that's kind of like the core of who I am. Those are some lucky students.
I think in the meantime, we're so lucky to learn from you. And thanks for everything, Mark. I know you don't usually do this.
I appreciate you taking the time, buddy. Cool. Thank you all for watching.
If you enjoyed this video, make sure to give it a like. And we'll see you guys next week.
The Hook
The bait, then the rug-pull.
Jimmy Kimmel gave him a key to his house. Mark Rober still can't fully explain how a mechanical engineer who posted once a month for a decade ended up there, or how the same instincts that got him onto that couch also built a 20-million-subscriber channel and raised $23 million for trees in two months.
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Forty-five days embedded with Jimmy Donaldson as he films Beast Games season two, a private-jet giveaway, a prison video and a Survivor crossover, scheduled down to the minute.
Jon Youshaei sits down with Peter McKinnon and plays clips from his own archive back to him, tracing the exact decisions that took him from 55 cents of AdSense revenue to a multi-million-subscriber brand.
A creator answers his email list's questions about growing a channel from zero, case study by case study, pulling up real subscriber channels and real comment counts on screen as he goes.
An entertainment attorney who runs $100 million creator exits explains why most YouTube channels are worth less than they think, and what actually makes one sellable.
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