The argument in one line.
A creator with millions of organic views but no offer is sitting on more revenue than most people chasing traffic will ever see, and turning that reach into cash is mostly a pricing and positioning problem, not a marketing one.
Read if. Skip if.
READ IF YOU ARE…
- A content creator or clipper-turned-agency-owner with real organic reach but no systematic way to convert followers into paying clients.
- Someone running a service business who took on too many low-paying clients and is now stretched too thin to deliver well.
- A creator deciding between scaling a done-for-you agency versus building a coaching or group-program offer instead.
- Anyone who already gets consistent views or leads but has never built a funnel, VSL, or paid ad campaign.
SKIP IF…
- You have no existing audience or case studies yet — this is about monetizing reach you already have, not building it from zero.
- You want a step-by-step ad-platform tutorial rather than a conversation about offer strategy and positioning.
The full version, fast.
A paid-ads agency owner sits down with a friend who nets five million organic views a month but has never made real money from it, and builds him a complete offer live. The core move is positioning: instead of competing at the low end with generic 'I help you grow with content' coaches, they carve out a $500k+/year business ICP, strip the agency down to a $4,000-for-six-months group coaching program with a $2,500/month editing subscription upsell, and back it with a VSL funnel, direct DM outreach, and a Meta CBO ad structure. The conclusion: pricing and client selection — not more content or more leads — were the actual bottleneck, and a clear, committed offer beats chasing multiple half-built models at once.
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Create a free account →Who's talking.
00:00hostLeo Moore
02:30guestSam Starr
Where the time goes.
00:00 – 02:25
01 · Cold open: the stats reveal
Voiceover framing: the guest nets 5,000,000 organic views a month but has no funnel or offer and no systematic way to convert leads into cash. Sets up the premise — a paid-ads agency owner will show him exactly how to fix it.
02:25 – 07:12
02 · Sam's path: clipper to content agency
The guest describes starting as a clipper for Australian podcasters and YouTubers, transitioning into a content marketing agency, landing a watch-dealer client who grew from zero to 100k followers in two years, then scaling to around 10 clients and running into delivery problems.
07:12 – 08:21
03 · Choosing the new offer model
Drawing on a past $100 call with Tai Lopez and a desire to travel seven months a year, the guest lands on wanting a group-coaching model built around content strategy for business owners who don't know what to post.
08:21 – 10:04
04 · The positioning trap: low-end vs. high-end
The host warns against the generic 'I grow your business with content' positioning flooding social media, contrasting a low-trust operator archetype with a named creator selling the same mechanism to a higher-end, more selective market.
10:04 – 14:41
05 · Building the deliverable stack
They work through offer design from first principles: who's the customer, what's the outcome, what do they specifically need to get there — video ideas, scripting, an in-house content system — and which of those the guest should personally deliver versus delegate.
14:41 – 17:00
06 · The real problem was pricing
The host reframes the guest's past agency struggles: undercharging capped what he could pay employees, which caused the delivery failures blamed on the model. Sets a rough client floor around $500k/year in revenue.
17:00 – 24:10
07 · Selecting the ICP and the awareness split
Discussion of why chasing mass-market virality doesn't mean selling to the mass market, using a real clothing-manufacturing client as an example, plus the rule that low-awareness buyers need the outcome sold while high-awareness buyers need the mechanism proven.
24:10 – 29:39
08 · Committing to one plan
The host pushes the guest to stop half-committing between agency and coaching models, cap the agency at a small number of high-paying clients, and park a low-priced evergreen offer permanently in his bio and email list.
29:39 – 31:23
09 · The offer structure reveal
They land on a concrete structure: a $4,000-for-six-months group coaching program (Skool), a $2,500/month editing subscription for 30 videos, and an upsell path from editing into coaching for clients who want more support.
31:23 – 36:00
10 · Building the VSL and funnel
The host drafts a rough VSL script live (hook, proof story, promise, call to book), recommends a cheap AI-built landing page over an expensive funnel tool, and pushes a DM-first outreach strategy backed by a stat that most booked calls come from manual DM conversations.
36:00 – 37:09
11 · Meta ads mechanics
Introduction to CBO campaign structure: group ad sets by 'concept' (angle, format, offer, persona), test 3 hook variations against 2 body variations inside each ad set, and launch with several concepts at once.
37:09 – 44:00
12 · Diagnosing the funnel
A full framework for fixing an underperforming funnel: check cost-per-click first, then page/VSL conversion rate, then lead quality; map spend to specific ads to catch bad performers; and understand how Meta redistributes spend away from winning ads over time.
44:00 – 46:05
13 · Revenue projection and close
They project a path to a $100k month within four to five months, discuss pricing in USD versus AUD for an Australian audience, and close with a fixed weekly action plan and an offer to check back in after the first big month.
Lines worth screenshotting.
- A creator pulling 5,000,000 organic views in a month can still be broke because views without a funnel or offer are just attention with nowhere to go.
- Agencies that scale past about 10 clients without changing their delivery model break because one person's expertise doesn't divide evenly across accounts.
- You can't sell your personal expertise the way an info-product creator does while running an agency — clients are buying the team's system, not your brain.
- Positioning your business under $500,000 a year in revenue as a client all but guarantees you inherit their operational chaos and their inability to pay or show up.
- The low-end-market failure mode is selling the exact same content-marketing mechanism as a premium operator, just aimed at an audience too broke and unaware to pay well for it.
- Selling low-awareness buyers (dentists, cafes) only requires selling the outcome; selling high-awareness buyers (fellow marketers) requires proving the mechanism beats what they already know.
- 84% of sales calls booked from Instagram organic in one dataset came from manual DM conversations, not self-serve booking links — meaning creators ignoring DMs are leaving most of their bookings on the table.
- Reworking a viral organic post with an on-screen text hook that states a specific outcome, then adding a direct CTA, turns a vanity-metric video into an acquisition asset without spending on ads.
- A four-figure-a-month offer built for business owners can run on a cheap AI-built landing page instead of a $200-a-month dedicated funnel builder.
- In Meta ad testing, a single ad in an ad set gets misread by the algorithm's multi-touch attribution, so a losing-looking ad can actually be the assist that made a separate ad's cheap conversion possible.
- Meta will silently redistribute spend away from a proven winning ad in week three even when it drove all the results in week one — the fix is a minimum spend rule or breaking the winner into its own campaign.
- When a funnel stops converting, the fix order is diagnostic: cost-per-click points to an ads problem, low page conversion points to the page or VSL, and bad lead quality points to messaging — not to 'the offer is broken.'
- Charging too little at an agency doesn't just cap revenue — it caps the caliber of employees you can hire, which is what actually causes the delivery failures usually blamed on the business model.
- A creator planning to close 25 clients a month off 100 booked calls only needs one system: book calls at a fixed cost per call and let the close rate do the rest of the math.
Pricing and positioning, not more content, unlock the offer.
WHAT TO LEARN
The real bottleneck for a creator with real reach is almost never traffic — it's picking a narrow enough buyer, charging enough to hire a good team, and building one funnel that turns attention into booked calls.
02Sam's path: clipper to content agency
- A skill built serving one small market can hit a hard income ceiling — the fix is moving the same skill toward a different buyer, not staying inside the original niche.
- Landing one paying business client and proving results before building an agency around it validates the model before you scale it.
- Scaling a hands-on creative skill to around 10 clients without changing the delivery process is what breaks quality, not the client count itself.
03Choosing the new offer model
- When deciding what to build next, start from the lifestyle you actually want and let that filter which offers are even viable, not just which are most profitable.
- A one-question gut check — what would you actually do if a big outcome were guaranteed no matter what — cuts through years of chasing whatever looks most impressive to build.
- Choose deliverables specifically to avoid the parts of the business that burned you out before, even if that means giving up some revenue.
04The positioning trap: low-end vs. high-end
- Two competitors can sell functionally the same mechanism and land in completely different markets purely because of how they position and who they aim the message at.
- Marketing yourself with generic language puts you in the same bucket as a flooded, low-trust field of look-alike operators.
- The fix for a saturated positioning isn't changing the deliverable — it's changing who you're allowed to say yes to.
05Building the deliverable stack
- Building an offer starts with three questions in order: who is the customer, what result do they want, and what do they specifically need to get there — not what deliverables sound impressive.
- Deliverables should be chosen by what removes the most friction for the buyer, not by what the seller enjoys doing.
- Buyers weigh outcome, effort required, risk, and time to result more than they weigh the mechanism behind a service.
06The real problem was pricing
- Charging too little doesn't just cap revenue, it caps who you can hire, which is the actual cause of most delivery problems blamed on the business model.
- A client below a certain revenue floor is more likely to lack the systems, time, and cash to be a good client regardless of how good the service is.
- Judging an entire offer by its least qualified clients is a trap — the real fix is often to stop serving that tier, not to add more support for it.
07Selecting the ICP and the awareness split
- Sell outcomes to buyers who don't understand the mechanism yet; sell the mechanism itself to buyers who are already sophisticated about it.
- Chasing a mass-market audience for growth doesn't obligate you to sell to that whole audience — you can build reach broadly and still sell only to a narrow, higher-value slice of it.
- Positioning yourself as generous with free value to smaller businesses builds trust and word-of-mouth that indirectly earns higher-paying clients later.
08Committing to one plan
- Sitting in a 'maybe I'll do both' limbo between two business models can quietly burn months with nothing to show for it.
- Pick one structure, decide what it definitively won't include, and hold that line even when new opportunities show up.
- A low-cost, high-value evergreen offer parked permanently in a bio or email footer can keep converting passively without competing for attention with the main paid offer.
09The offer structure reveal
- A workable hybrid structure pairs a fixed-term coaching program for strategy and accountability with a separate flat-rate subscription for pure execution, with a clear upsell path between the two.
- Keeping done-for-you work minimal and clearly bounded avoids the burnout that kills full-service agencies.
- Pricing tiers should map to how much hand-holding a client needs, not to how much work is technically involved.
10Building the VSL and funnel
- A usable first sales-video script can be outlined in minutes: state who it's for, show a specific proof story, name the promise, and end with a clear call to book.
- A cheap AI-built landing page can convert as well as an expensive dedicated funnel builder for a fraction of the monthly cost.
- Most booked sales calls in some programs come from manual DM conversations, not self-service booking links — ignoring DMs likely means leaving most bookings on the table.
11Meta ads mechanics
- An ad set should test multiple hook and body variations around one shared concept rather than isolating a single ad, which the algorithm can't optimize around.
- Automated budget allocation lets the platform spread spend across ad sets, but each ad set still needs enough creative variation inside it to give the algorithm real signal.
- Launching a first ad campaign is mostly a fear problem — the fear of touching the ad account fades the moment real spend produces real data.
12Diagnosing the funnel
- When a funnel underperforms, diagnose in order: cost per click, then page or video conversion, then lead quality — not the offer itself.
- An ad platform can quietly shift spend away from your best-performing ad in later weeks even though it drove your best results early — a minimum spend rule or a separate campaign protects it.
- Mapping which specific ad brought which specific lead reveals concentrated bad spend fast — often a small number of ads account for most of the unqualified traffic.
13Revenue projection and close
- A clear, math-based revenue target turns an abstract growth goal into a simple weekly operational plan.
- Pricing in a buyer's home currency avoids sticker shock that has nothing to do with actual value delivered.
- Early customers can be priced slightly below the eventual target price and moved up over time once results and case studies exist to justify the increase.
Terms worth knowing.
- CBO
- Campaign Budget Optimization — a Meta Ads setting where the platform automatically decides how much budget to spend on each ad set within a campaign, rather than the advertiser fixing it manually.
- VSL
- Video Sales Letter — a pre-recorded pitch video placed on a landing page that does the persuasion work before a prospect books a call, replacing or shortening a live sales conversation.
- ICP
- Ideal Customer Profile — the specific type of buyer a business targets, defined by traits like revenue size or industry, used to focus messaging, offer design, and ad targeting.
- Ad set / concept
- In Meta Ads, a group of ad variations (different hooks or bodies) that share one targeting audience and one underlying angle, tested together so the algorithm has enough signal to optimize.
- CAC
- Customer Acquisition Cost — the total ad and sales spend divided by the number of paying customers it produced, used to judge whether an offer's price can sustain its ad spend.
Things they pointed at.
27:30productSkool
29:05toolClickFunnels
29:20toolLovable
30:20toolCalendly
10:50channelDaniel Iles
07:40channelAlex Hormozi
Lines you could clip.
00:15
“How many views you got in the last thirty days? Five mil, actually. That makes me absolutely sick.”
14:41
“The problem with your agency was probably that you weren't charging high enough prices to good enough clients.”
19:10
“Your ability to charge a higher price to better businesses is gonna unlock the ability to hire better employees, therefore get better results.”
33:25
“84% of their sales calls booked from IG organic were not self booked. They were from manual bookings from DMs.”
37:09
“First things first, we need to understand what's the cost per call we're targeting.”
45:05
“I think you should be able to hit a 100k month within, like, four to five months, probably.”
Where the conversation goes.
00:00 – 02:25sparseIntro and stats reveal
02:25 – 07:12denseGuest's background and agency history
07:12 – 10:04denseChoosing a new offer model
10:04 – 17:00densePositioning and ICP selection
17:00 – 24:10densePricing and team quality
24:10 – 29:39steadyCommitting to the plan
29:39 – 31:23denseOffer structure and pricing
31:23 – 36:00denseFunnel and VSL build
36:00 – 40:00denseMeta ads mechanics
40:00 – 44:00steadyDiagnosing funnel performance
44:00 – 46:05sparseRevenue projection and close
Word for word.
Read-along
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analogystory
00:00How many views you got in the last thirty days? Five mil, actually. That makes me absolutely sick.
00:03So you don't have a funnel? You don't have this? Got nothing.
00:06What's stopping you from doing that today? I've never done any of this. This is Sam.
00:09In the last month, his organic social presence put in over 5,000,000 views, but he's struggling to monetize that effectively. He doesn't really have a funnel. He doesn't really have an offer.
00:19He kinda just sells stuff to the people that come through without any systematic way of turning the leads that he has into consistent cash. And it's funny because while most people are grinding to try and figure out social media, how to get views, how to get their ads to work, and how to get leads in the first place, he's just sitting on a gold mine that he can essentially just monetize right away as soon as he installs that system.
00:38And for context, I run a paid ads agency where we spend up to $1,000,000 a month on ads for our clients in order to get them those leads and generate wildly profitable returns like the ones you can see around the screen now. We help companies go from 0 to 8 figures using paid advertising. So literally all I do every day is figure out how to take a freezing cold customer and turn them into a paying client, and what Sam does is basically go viral on social media.
01:00So that's why I decided to sit down with him and basically show him exactly how he can take what he already has and turn it into a 7 figure business. And it's funny because me and Sam have known each other for, ten years. We went to school together, and we kinda just naturally went into the business space on our own.
01:13I didn't hold anything back. This is like a conversation between friends about how he can essentially use all the stuff he has and all the stuff I have in order to grow. So by the end of this, you're gonna get all that stuff, and it's essentially a behind the scenes conversation that you would get if you're in one of my one on one consulting programs or my agency clients.
01:29So grab a coffee, sit back, relax, and enjoy. Make sure you take some specific action items. If you don't take action on the stuff that you learn in this video, I'm gonna be deeply disappointed, so enjoy.
01:38In this video, what I thought we would do is really do a breakdown on your business, how you can take it to the next level. I work with some businesses that are kinda similar to yours, so I thought, why not just record it? And we'll basically just do, like, top three constraints.
01:48We'll dive into, like, what you're doing currently, what's not working, what's working, what you can add in. And then, yeah, do wanna just take it away with, like, context on your business, all that stuff in kind of tandem, and then we can just try to treat it like a consultant culture. Thank you.
01:58I'm Sam Starr from Melbourne as well. I currently run a content marketing agency. Started off as a video editor working for, like, podcasters,
02:06YouTubers, people like Spanion, Troy Candy, Luke Owen. That's kinda how I got my start. I was like a clipper, so I worked behind the scenes editing clips for these people.
02:13That kinda gave me the skill of social media. From there, reached a point where I kinda maxed out, like hit a limit on like people in Australia that I could really work with and realized there's fuck all money in working with creators. Especially in Australia, I was like, naturally, I was just wanting to make more money, wanted to scale.
02:27Was like, I've got this skill of making videos for form. Supposedly, if I work with businesses, I should make more money.
02:33So I naturally just turned it into a content marketing agency where we did everything start to finish for business owners. First client when I transitioned into business went really well. I worked with Cal Best, who's a watch dealer as well in Melbourne.
02:45So we took him from like zero to over a 100,000 followers in about two years. It popped off pretty quick at the start. What I do is kind of valuable because before then I was like getting paid maybe like $3 was the max.
02:55That was like the max I'd ever hit. But apart from that like $10, $20, $30. When you're generating these people like millions of views.
03:02So did it for a business and then saw like the videos I was making. I mean, pretty much a direct return on investment in terms of like new business coming in for Cal. So I was like, okay, this works.
03:12Did that for about a year, just working solely with them. So that was smooth. And then it got to the point where we wanted to scale more, take on more clients, and that's where we turned it into more of like an actual agency trying brought on got up to like maybe 10 clients at our peak.
03:25Ran into issues of like Like delivery? Yeah. Delivery was fucked.
03:29I guess my skill set has always been just like sitting down and chopping up videos, coming out with ideas. You turn that into an agency where you're running that across 10 plus clients and like you don't really change what you're doing, you run into some problems. And also like spreading my brain across, like, 10 different clients, I found it tricky to give them the attention they deserve or what they need for what the service I was kinda providing.
03:48It's kind of a problem that happens a lot if you're a good marketer. Definitely, I deal with this myself. You can kinda get trapped in, like, selling your expertise the same way that you would do as an info product person, but you're running an agency.
04:00You really can't sell your expertise as an agency. You kinda need to sell the team's work and, like, sell the outcome that the team can get. That's the leverage in an agency is that you can get the outcome with the team systems and processes that you have in place.
04:11All the Internet marketer people that you probably look up to, they market in a certain way. So I naturally, without even realizing, just kind of marketed that way like a Hormozie or a whoever, like, I'll try and emulate that when in reality, like, they're selling expertise. They're selling like an agency service is almost it takes a different thing.
04:26Now are you in a position where you wanna scale the agency or you don't? Because I would say if you wanna scale the agency, it's just an operational issue because you've got pretty good distribution, like, gone viral on social media. You could probably figure that out and just deliver services like almost a personal brand launch type thing where you just charge any business 3 to 5 k a month or whatever.
04:42You'll just give them 30 reels a month. It's very like you just give them deliverables and your deliverables are are this good and they, you know, they get this result a percentage of the time. The other option is like people just do coaching, but it it depends really what you wanna do.
04:52I think I told you when I had that call with Tai Lopez. So I booked one of those calls with Tai Lopez for, like, fifteen minutes. It's, a $100 offer, and you book a call for fifteen minutes with Tai Lopez.
05:01And it was really interesting. It was, what do you wanna do? Like, if you could do anything and you're gonna make a million bucks a year no matter what you do, like, what would you do?
05:07I thought that was a good question. Like, what's the answer to that for you? Because you can probably do anything with Mhmm.
05:10Like, brand that you've built out, the skills, etcetera. Like, what do you wanna do? I started this whole thing to travel and, have that kind of location freedom that was, like, legit took that gap year first year off the back of it.
05:19It was, I wanna make money online so I can travel more. And then I feel like I built a business that, like, didn't accommodate that. And I was, like, fuck.
05:25Like, what am I doing? Like, I just thought about, like, what I thought about the lifestyle first of, like, what I actually wanna do and then seeing, like, what businesses accommodate that. Like, next year, I wanna travel seven months of the year and just travel around the world.
05:36That's a big motive for me. I'm working hard, what I actually want at the end of the day kind of thing. Lifestyle businesses become underrated.
05:43There was a time, especially with Hormozie's Ascent, it was like, oh, if you have a lifestyle business, you're cringe, like, you're loser, like, you're not working all the time. That's pretty valid. So that gives you also, like, parameters for the decision or, like, values by which to look through a decision, which makes it easy based on our conversations that we've already had for context.
05:58We've known each other for ten years, it's a of an interesting one, but, like, we kinda came up in our different ways, and we were friends for ages. So I know that you probably wanna sell coaching stuff. You wanna sling info.
06:06Understandable. I've had my stint in info. It's good it's good fun.
06:09It's probably the easiest cash flow, most profit that you'll ever be able to make. So it's a good option. But what are you thinking now?
06:14Like, where you're with the business? What's the plan? And what are the bottlenecks getting in the way?
06:18And then we can talk about, like, how to get into the nitty gritty of, like, how to scale an ad funnel, how to rip the offer, how to go about it. I think, like, one thing for certain is, like, the agency I was running, like, I do not wanna do that. The whole start to finish process with the filming and stuff, even, like, coming out with ideas every month for a client and, like, writing out scripts, I don't wanna do that.
06:34I was just looking at stripping back like what's actually most valuable from what we do and I believe it's the content strategy. That is like I've been on calls with a bunch of different business owners and they've all said they have no idea what to post for their business. So that's like the common theme of what people are facing.
06:47I just like sit and think about in my head what I want, and it's like, okay, I wanna travel. This series I wanna continue to do. I wanna continue to go around and do it for businesses, and I want a model that reflects that, which I think is more of like a group coaching.
06:59We build out your content strategy. We provide you group coaching, and it's like sort of from the customer I see for it is like a business owner just doesn't know how to make content for their business.
07:08We teach you how to do that and give you the support, and after the program, you know how to do that. Yes and no in terms of like what I think about that kind of offer. But there's two ways you can go about it.
07:18If you look on Instagram,
07:19there's probably a 100 motherfuckers that look like they're straight out of Bali that will be like, I grow and scale businesses with content. That is probably the worst possible thing you could do to, like, go hard down that route. So it's not as if the actual deliverables need to change.
07:33Within that, it's probably a positioning issue. Because the truth of the matter is the Bali Maxes and Daniel Isles actually sell the same offer, more or less. Daniel Isles is more or less selling like coaching to business owners.
07:45That's like any business. There is some done for you elements, but really what he's been able to do is go to a super unaware market and just sell them on the mechanism of getting content via social media. But he's just figured out a way to sell it to a higher end customer.
07:58Constraint is operational, and you don't wanna necessarily do too much for them because it just makes you wanna blow your brains out, but you are happy to consult. I would strongly recommend not to go too low end of the market Yeah.
08:09Just because it's like the easy thing, and you can probably sell a fuck ton of like 3 k deals. I would probably look at like, who am I helping? You're probably still gonna help business owners.
08:17Probably still gonna be business owners of a certain size. Likely, minimum upwards of, like, half 1,000,000 year in revenue. Below that, the problem you're gonna end up running into is that you're helping people that are essentially not running a good business at all.
08:29Like, they'll be running some shitty business, like, sub 500 k a year. Not to say that it's like, oh my god. Like, you're the worst dove for you, but they're just not the best client.
08:36And no matter what you do on the coaching side, be shit at recording. They won't be able to have any level of, like, systems. They'll just not record a lot of times as well because it's not a priority for them.
08:45They don't get it. And if they don't pay enough, they're not gonna be, like, invested into it. They're just gonna be like, oh, I paid Heinzey to fix my content, and they'll probably like you because your organic is quite good.
08:52But, again, the problem that you'll run into all the time is the same as all those Bali guys, which is that you get stuck at the low end of the market because the messaging is all fucked. It's all, like, kind of biz op y just because of how they look as well. Huge problem.
09:04You see those guys, like, they might make a bit of money in the short term. It's just not a sustainable thing long term. Like, how do I get the benefits of selling something that's like a consulting coaching info based thing in terms of the cash flow, the profit, not that much done for you work, but also have the benefit of selling to, like, a higher end customer because it's just everything goes up.
09:21The case study will go up. Your life will be better. You'll get a better network from selling to better types of clients.
09:25And I've always just thought, like, ever since I first saw Hormozie, I was like, the genius part of this is just that he's selling essentially an info product to a hiring customer, which is like, it's b to b info. Linking back to Daniel Isles, you're probably more aware than me of his actual deliverables, but to me, it seems like he's just saying the transformation is we're gonna get you leads from social media, and it's just more or less that.
09:46And whether there's ad stuff on the back end, it's kind of irrelevant. All the front end messaging is we will get you leads, and the mechanism is like, we're gonna give you the ability to do that in house, then and the deliverables will probably be like content strategy. We might place an editor for you or refer you to an editor.
09:59They might refer out to, like, studios or videographers. And it's just like at the end of the day, it's like, wanna get them this result. This is the customer.
10:06So it's like, this is the person. This is the outcome and the result of the transformation. Given those two things, this is what they need, and then I'm gonna choose based on that stack of deliverables.
10:14How am I gonna transfer that to them? So as an example, the ICP might be business owners upwards of 500 k a year. That'll break out into a bunch of sub niches and personas under that.
10:22And then you'll say, okay. If this is the customer, what they need to get there is actually one, two, three, four, and five. So it's like, let's say they need video ideas, that's when you can go into, like, how am I gonna deliver that?
10:32I might do that on a one to one onboarding call, I'll give them a nine day plan. And I'll just do that on a call because you probably have that Then you might say, okay. The next problem they're gonna have is scripting.
10:39I don't wanna do that personally because at the end the day, they don't actually care about how it happens. They care about things in in terms of, like, the value equation. What's the outcome?
10:46How much work do I have to do? How much risk is there? How long is it gonna take?
10:49Because if you were like, I'm gonna get you leads from content today and you have to do nothing, like, that'd be the best thing ever. Yeah. So it's just thinking through, like, what are the exact deliverables?
10:58I think people really overcomplicate offer creation. It's literally just who's it for, what's the outcome, how do they get it?
11:04And like you can go into like who's the specific person, what's the specific problem, how am I convincing them specifically, but you kinda only have to go into and this is the hack of Daniel Isles. You kinda only have to go deep into mechanism stuff in terms of your copy.
11:16If you're hammering an audience that's really aware, But if you're going into, like, brick and mortar companies or, like, lawyers or dentists, they don't fucking know anything about coming up with viral ideas or any of that shit. You're just selling them the outcome, and then you're educating them on all that stuff on the back end.
11:30If you're trying to sell to, like, a marketing agency owner, they're already aware of all this content shit, you're gonna have to, like, convince them why your stuff is better. Whereas if you can hammer these people that you're kind of already unlocking the ability to sell to through your content, like, people that have never really hammered social media before, all you need to sell them is, like, the system.
11:45Like, landing for you or, like, what are you thinking when I say that? I guess with the business owners, like, all these, like, high level ones, I think they lack the time to do a lot of it. I just assume that they're, like, incapable of doing it, and then they need a team to also execute on it as well.
11:58What size of company is rejecting having a team for content? Because the thing is, this happens a lot. You'll almost get this idea of what's required based on your least qualified clients.
12:10So as an example for me, like, talk to guys that run ad agencies quite a lot because I just run an ad agency. That's, like, people in my network. And they'll say things my clients always have shit sales teams, so I'm gonna offer sales as well.
12:20In reality, if one of my clients has a shit sales team, I'm either gonna refer them to a sales manager I know, or I'll view them as an unqualified client. Them having a bottleneck of why I don't wanna have a team or they they don't wanna put a certain amount of resources behind something, that's not something where you specifically need to go in and solve that for them as a part of your offer.
12:36That's something that might just tell me they might just not be a fit. So they might just be too small. Granted, no business owners are gonna think they have time, but if they're like, I don't have any time.
12:44I don't have any money to hire a team. You need to just literally wipe my ass for me as a part of this offer. I would look back at them and I would say, good luck getting leads.
12:51If someone doesn't wanna record ad creative, we're selling them like, this is why you need to do it. These are the highest performing ads in the account. This is the return of these ads.
12:58Therefore, what is possibly making you more revenue than this? And granted that it's a bit more of a tough sell if they're not being into social media already, but you can kinda see how the level of sold and qualified that they are will determine the actions that they take. Because if that was certain that their content was the highest leverage thing that they could do, they would just hire a team for it.
13:16A good example, like, I caught up with this guy, like, two, three hours ago. He runs a clothing manufacturing business. He just sells blank clothings, and, like, clothing brands will come to him.
13:24He has, all these warehouses in China and shit that they just, like, fulfill for people for orders. Like, he's got equity in this clothing brand that makes like graphic tees. He's like, we spend 7 and a half million dollars a year on ads.
13:34He's like, I fucking hate that. But we have no organic thing. And like, it kinda opened my eyes up to like, if I was to go in there and consult on that team that's existing inside that business and provide them strategies to actually do well.
13:45And that's exactly what I mean when I say the mistake that people are making is they're going, oh, these people aren't qualified. Therefore, I need to sell to the low end of the market and just do coaching for, like, people that aren't doing my thing. In reality, what the smartest people right now are doing, like, for example, Cole Gordon, Ravi Abhavala, Daniel Iles is another.
14:02Like, rather than going down market and, like, selling something that's more accessible and, you know, they include more stuff, they're just going fuck that. The only people that actually buy shit right now for big prices that I can then run ads to so I can afford the CAC, it's people upmarket. People like that.
14:16That's a huge problem. If you fix content for them, that's like a $3,000,000 a year problem.
14:20Okay. That's a big, big thing. So if you were like, well, it's gonna be 5 k a month.
14:24It's gonna be this much upfront or whatever, and the offer really, really made sense. It's very doable.
14:29And even going back to the agency, the problem with your agency was probably that you weren't charging high enough prices to good enough clients, probably couldn't afford good enough employees so that when there were fires in ops, it would just cause you to have to do it because there wasn't anyone that was good enough.
14:44And this happens with every agency, especially around that kind of point where, like, you have enough clients that you can no longer think about them all yourself. Even if you did the coaching thing, you're still gonna have to solve that problem at some point, and that's why people say shit like pricing is the biggest lever.
14:57Like, your ability to charge a higher price to better businesses is gonna unlock the ability to hire better employees, therefore get better results, therefore be able to It's just like avoiding the common traps of what people do, which is tough because not many people have actually, like, gone through the cycle. That's the way I'm seeing, like, the agency and online services market right now, though.
15:16But then it becomes a bigger problem or, like, a different problem of, like, okay. Now that I decided I wanna sell to these types of people, how the how the fuck do I do that? I think it's just because it's like right in front of me, like I'm getting all these views and like I know this format will continue to get like lots of views.
15:28Do I just go fucking mass market with it? Like, I don't see why I can't grow to like a million followers with it because like I don't see the format dying out. I would keep pushing that.
15:36That doesn't necessarily mean that you need to sell to those people, though. As you go more and more viral, eventually, someone who runs a massive business is gonna see you and be like, this kid's, like, a based out content. And, you know, another person who's doing that really well right now is Nathan Pedrea.
15:48He's organic. He's very, very fucking dialed, but he only sells to businesses about 5,000,000. And that kinda gives you, like, this hormones y effect.
15:54Everyone under that level just feel like you're giving free value. And, like, oh my god, Heinz is literally a savior. Like, all he does is, like, go into these business and just, like, fucking help them with their content.
16:02And you do, and that's a big part of it. And it gives you traction, and it gets you tons of goodwill on the market. And those are the people that when people are commenting shit things on your ads or whatever, they'll go in and say, no.
16:11Fuck you. Heinz, he helped this fucking deli from bankruptcy. But then at the higher end of the market, you're fucking charging them the exact amount that you're worth because you're solving a big problem for them.
16:20And you can also have, like, for example, your big main, just max out views, just do your fucking two of those a week and fucking post, like, five times a day of that'll keep working. And you can just dish out a ton of free value. You may make a free course that shows, like, any business how to start from scratch with content.
16:33And let's say you did only sell done for you, but it was only at late to 10 k a month minimum, and you were really selective about the client and you had a really, really good team. The actual deliverables, all of a sudden, can start thinking, yeah. I probably could afford way better team to be able to fulfill that.
16:46And you can also if you need to, you can delegate more stuff to the client when they're bigger. Just as an example, in my agency, we spend a lot of time with our smaller clients on really, like, just shitty little things like sales reporting. We have clients who will work on their tracking a ton and, like, fixing their pixel events and bullshit like that.
17:01Then we'll have other clients who they're big enough that they'll have an individual team for the funnel. They'll have people who are, like, scaled companies to a billion dollars a year with quiz funnels. You just run the ads and make the ads.
17:09Quiz funnel is done by us. We'll have the pixel stuff done by us. We'll have external teams that will have experts come in.
17:14We'll hire another creative agency so we can feed the algorithm a bit more. They're the ones that you're like, oh, you're the best client ever. Like, we just focus on our field of expertise.
17:21Same as you. Like, your best clients will look at you and think, oh, that kid's got really fucking good ideas. Send me 10 good ideas a week with some outlines, refer us to a good editor.
17:29You're amazing. You're the best thing ever. But it's, again, it's the trap of thinking just because it didn't work for a certain business who probably didn't record very often, they probably had huge bottlenecks inside their company.
17:38That doesn't necessarily mean that the service is cooked. It just means that maybe you weren't holding them accountable enough. Maybe you weren't able to sell them on why they needed to take certain actions.
17:46Like, it's probably a client management thing in that sense. Maybe you needed an account manager to, like, stay on them a bit more. They probably couldn't afford that because you weren't charging enough.
17:53So it's like, these are the problems that actually cause failure and big pivots and retrospectively looking at the problem in a way that you weren't actually looking at the problem. So then you go into the next business, let's say you're coaching, and then you face the the next problem that come from coaching, and that's how you get in this loop where you're hitting the same shit over and over again.
18:09That's what is most of the time causing people, like, multiyear plateaus. So going into the next kind of phase, whether you continue the agency and keep trying to, like, scale that up and just charge higher prices, or if you do the coaching thing, it doesn't matter because you're gonna still try and sell to those higher end of the market type clients, and you're still gonna have to figure out a way to get results that doesn't rely on your brain if you want the end result of being able to, like, have freedom over your time.
18:30The other thing within that is that I don't know why you only sell to Australia, especially if you wanna travel. Like, there's no reason you couldn't do the the type of content you do in, like, Poland. So that's yeah.
18:37That's what I wanna do. What do you think about that? Like, from that, I would say you could continue to just scale the agency.
18:43You just need to charge more and work with better clients. I think has a good take on that. If you run an agency and you get stuck selling to businesses that are too small, you're gonna be in hell forever.
18:51You need to do that at the start to, like, get your proof and stuff. But eventually, like, I would never be selling done for you to anyone doing less than a million, $2,000,000 a year. They barely even have employees.
19:00You know? They're not gonna afford your retainer. And if they can, you're gonna be charging them, like, $3 a month.
19:04I think it's a sick model, and I'm very jealous of people that have that kind of model, like a low priced agency, and they just get a shit ton of clients. It's way better suited to operator type brains, though. If you're more of a marketer and really you are kinda selling, like, the magic touch of, like, this is the sort of shit that goes viral and, like, gets clients and whatever, in those cases, it's just like, how do I deliver that in a way that's gonna create the best results with the least input?
19:25And that's the question of, like, do you go agency, or do you do this, like, hybrid coaching thing for a bit of a higher end client? I think there's no reason why you couldn't create some pretty sick results with a similar offer to someone like Daniel Iles just in Australia, where, like, some of it's done for you. Again, it's just about being able to sell the client of why they need to bring in certain headers, why they need to produce content of a certain quality.
19:46You can maybe write their first bunch of scripts. You can train them on script writing. Yeah.
19:49Again, either way, the problem you're running to is, like, how do you create results at scale? And that is, like, just like a talent and processes thing. You're not really gonna have an issue with distribution.
19:58The thing you have to equate though is that the operations issue is also linked to lead quality. What's your average price at the agency? Like, 5 to 6 k.
20:04That's not actually too bad. When we're doing, like, the traveling and shit like that, the old model was fucked. Why?
20:09Like, what was the process you were taking? Like, long research process, ideas, scripting, filming, editing.
20:15I'll ask you this. How sold are you on never running an agency or, like, not running an agency? Because as an example, personal brand launch crushes
20:23with that exact model of, like, I'm just gonna charge this retainer. I'm gonna research a 100 ideas a month for you, and I'm gonna deliver this many scripts. We'll edit your videos with, like, a pool of editors or whatever.
20:32Might make it work. I don't believe it's the best way to actually create content. I don't like the idea of just, like, setting up a camera and filming, like, batch recording, like, 30 videos a month.
20:41You know? What about for the clients? I don't think it's the best thing either.
20:44Who's an ideal client for you that you'd love to work with? Like, I had this call with this one girl for, like, thirty minutes, and I told her, like, hey, this is how you should position yourself on social media. She was trying to launch this, like, men's lip balm company this September, and she was like, oh, should I start building my personal brand now?
20:58Should I do it when I launch? I was like, you should do it now. You should start creating content around men's fashion, men's health, men's skincare, all that shit, and like building a personal brand around that.
21:06And she went out and did it, and on her fifth video, I got a million views, and she came back to me, she's like, oh my god, like, this is crazy. Like, that felt good. If you're always thinking through working with clients as, like, you're gonna be the one having to do it, it's gonna bottleneck you.
21:19Actually, Hormozi said this one as well. It's like the biggest risk to your business is that you won't want to do it. Are you okay
21:25with saying, I'd probably make more if I just stuck with the agency, and I'm okay with letting that go because I don't wanna do it? Because I would say that is actually the decision. It's it's a decision of, I understand that this is probably the correct quote, unquote thing to do would be to just keep chipping away the agency, try to get better clients, fix the delivery, get better at ops.
21:45If you're happy to say no to that, I would probably just, like, fully make the decision because being in that limbo state is also where you can fucking lose, like, six months for no reason. There's always like a separation of like, I have an idea, I have to pass it on to another business, they have to execute it, we have to edit it, and just goes through a stream of things.
22:00Whereas, I love making my own content because it's like, I know exactly how to execute, exactly how to do it, so I I love being in control of just like marketing and like blowing up a business. I like the idea of, like, being able to control my marketing that's, like, directly going to a business that's, like, scalable, and then providing all the information that I'm learning into that.
22:16Do you even wanna do content for other people then? I don't wanna physically do it. You just wanna, like, consult them.
22:22Yeah. I mean, the coaching thing makes sense then. Could You probably just have a coaching business and then you say you wanna have, like, three clients at the agency or something?
22:28Yeah. Like, having, like, this, like, community that's, like, look, I'm not gonna lie. Look, it it looks advertising the money and, like, the scalability and the the model behind it.
22:36But then I wouldn't mind, like, also, like, going to Flight Centre or some shit and being, hey, Like, let me run your whole social media team. I'll consult on that, and just doing, like, big plays like that. See, that's it's kind of the trap, though.
22:47Even in that, there's, a lack of decision. There's a lack of commitment towards one thing. I saw Matt Larsen recently, actually.
22:53Yeah. The OG. And we were just talking about each other's businesses a little bit.
22:56We were talking about my business, he was like, oh, dude. Like, you should just do something way bigger. Like, try and just, like, make a huge company.
23:01I think that would be great, but, also, I know the thing I've fallen victim to is, like, doing this and doing that. What I need to do is just continue to do the ad agency for, like, five years, and then we'll just continue to scale. It took me a long time and a lot of fucking around to get to the point where I was like, nope.
23:17I'm not gonna turn my head anymore. I'm just gonna do this. I would it would be my recommendation to try to reach that point earlier.
23:23Even if that means that you say, this is exactly what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna have the agency. It's all gonna be one company.
23:28The agency's only gonna take on a certain size of client that I want to take on. I'm gonna be very selective, and the way that I'm gonna enable myself to be selective with those clients is by having a downsell, which is like a coaching thing or a community thing. Give an example.
23:40The way I did that was I didn't really wanna do group coaching that much, so I was just like, oh, I could do that. I don't really wanna let me just sell to higher end clients at the agency. I'll have a school group that's like Mhmm.
23:502 k a year. That's just gonna be like a ridiculous value proposition of, like, everything that you need probably could have sold this for 12 k. Many people do.
23:58I know they do. I'm just gonna have it at 2 k. It's just gonna sit in my YouTube description.
24:02Cheeky plug. It's gonna sit in my YouTube description forever. Yeah.
24:05It's gonna sit on my email list forever. It's gonna sit on my IG page forever, and it's just gonna be there. And if you wanna buy that, it's gonna be there.
24:12So it's just about, like, having the plan that you're committed to long term. Well, I think that's like when we started this thing and you started bringing up, like, a new thing. I'm like, because I faced that issue for sure, I was like, I've been chopping and changing different things.
24:23I was kinda, like, set on this, like, group thing, this, like, coaching model, even, like, changing again now. Seems like you've kinda been in this, like, kind of half committing to, like, each thing. I would say, like, I'm pretty much coming to terms with, like, this is what I wanna do.
24:34Just the coaching? Just the group coaching? Yeah.
24:36And, like, upselling into, like I wanna run an editing agency, like, that we just upsell into. Yeah. Just editing a subscription base.
24:42Because, like, that's a problem, like, all the people And then would you still take on those bigger clients, like, fucking flight center and shit? Well, the thing with that is, like, I'm in no rush to do that. Right now, it's like next year, I wanna travel the world.
24:52The only thing you need to do is just have an exact plan and just be willing to say no to shit. Like, for example, if you're like, I wanna do hiring clients in, like, 2028, and I'm just gonna do this for this amount of time.
25:02I'll do this much of the agency. I'll do exactly this much of this, and be willing to be flexible around that somewhat, but more or less just buy and selling this.
25:10Otherwise, the messaging gets really fucked. Your brand will get a little bit diluted as well. So if you're like, alright.
25:15The agency's at what do you we'll say three clients that you're capping at. So agency cap to three clients, then the next problem is like, alright. I have a coaching offer that I just need to sell the fuck out of.
25:22We probably spend too much time on that, be honest, but it's good to flush out. So then it's like structuring the coaching offer more or less towards who's the ICP. Do you wanna sell to, like, the average, like, lawyer or, like, random dentist?
25:32I actually don't mind, like, small businesses. Like, I love like, what I mentioned with that girl, like, I thought that was awesome. So I would say, like but there's, like, a lot of people, like like, I have a guy at my gym as well that runs a detailing business.
25:43I gave him, like, one conversation. I was like, bro, put your face in videos, started doing it. He wasn't working at the gym anymore.
25:48He fucking went full time in detailing. You know? Like, that shit was cool.
25:53What you could do is then, especially in Australia what's his name? Brandon.
25:57With you. Yes. That's a really good business.
25:59It is. That's a really good business. What I was saying about the high end of the market thing, that kind of is tougher in Australia because there's not as many businesses that are, like, really nicely, like, sized.
26:08No ditty. There are just, like, tons of detailers that'll be doing a 150 k a year in, like, fucking Perth. I don't mind that for you, especially if you can structure it where it's like they actually get results.
26:18Yeah. Because the key with Brandon's thing is, like, the activation is very clear with it being on a workshop. Like, it's really a coaching program, but they push it to the workshop, which makes the whole thing work.
26:27Yeah. You can just do that for content. And it's just like, you wanna get leads from social media?
26:31You don't wanna spend money on ads? Like, buy this. But then, again, like, you're still gonna run into that thing of, like, how do I actually deliver that result for someone who's probably a bit retarded?
26:39Probably don't have the capacity to film that well. Yeah. So it'd be more like in the actual delivery,
26:44you'd have to be telling them, like, this is how you as a cafe with a barista is gonna get your junior employee to film you saying scripts like this. This is how you find ideas. Do it this way.
26:54It's just like the simplicity of the delivery has to be there. The main, like, aspect at the start of that offer that I think is important is us doing the content strategy for them and not being the, like, one deliverable apart from the coaching. What the fuck do I post?
27:07Like, how do I position myself? And a lot of the time, it's like I see it as, like, very simple. Like, for a cafe, it's just like I've seen people do, like, behind the scenes of running the cafe and, like, all this stuff behind.
27:15So what I would do with that is I would have archetypes
27:18of the types of people that you're selling. There's cafes that come in. There's lawyers that come in.
27:22There's dentists. There's brokers. There's real estate.
27:25There's these. It's kinda tough to build out, but honestly, you could probably do it with dropping a voice note into Claude and running out like That's what we're trying to build right shit that works here, but, dude, like, literally all that takes you that's a one day. Yeah.
27:36That's a one day thing of, like, I'm gonna go in, look at all like, you don't need to do too many, like, just the types of people that buy. When more people come through, you're gonna say, oh, this guy is a fucking pilot. Shit.
27:46And then you can just do it, boutique onboarding and then turn that into, like, a a plan of, like, how that sort sort of business can crush with content. I think that's a good place to land on, to be honest. Like, you start off like four k, four month coaching program, six month coaching program, kind of prototype editing agency that you probably wanna have an operator, like, just handle for the most part.
28:01Yeah. What I was thinking on that is just having a format library of all the different styles of content and basing it on, like, okay. This person only has an hour to film, like, every day.
28:08So what formats work for that person? Or this person's, like, younger. They're hustling.
28:12They're making a bit of cash, like a detailer. Like, they have time to spend a bit more time on, like, a day in the life video or something like that. I think that's solved, to be honest.
28:19Like, that probably gives you, like, done easy. Like, that's that's a decision made type thing. This is exactly what it's gonna be.
28:24This isn't gonna be the positioning. This is gonna be the delivery path. Honestly, in terms of, like, the actual nitty gritties of the delivery, it's gonna be group calls.
28:31It's gonna be fucking school training. The editing agency just sits because I know people are gonna run into, I can't have my videos. I'm like, okay.
28:37Go sub to it. Like, we got a guy today that just subbed, like, two and a half k, 30 videos a month. That's the type of agency that works.
28:42Is that what I'm saying? Yeah. With the agency.
28:44And we're just gonna like, we got a little filler team. We'll have someone in Melbourne to just run the whole thing. And it's like you have 50 content, 2 and a half k a month subscription based.
28:51Like, you'll need to give them a certain amount of support. Yeah. Like, the CSMs inside the group will need to be, like, content strategist type thing.
28:57Well, that's what I wanna do. Like, I like how Brandon's got, like, fucking 60 calls a week or whatever. So what's been stopping you from just scaling the coaching?
29:05Maybe a lack of confidence, to be honest. Like Let's say, like, you have your offers laid out, and it's like, the school is gonna be 4 k for six months. That is now in contract.
29:13That's done. Editing agency is gonna be 2,500 for 30 videos.
29:17How much does that pay for you? We're doing a subscription base. 50 US a video.
29:21That's fine. And they get zero support on the content with that? Yeah.
29:24I would probably say keep it to, like, very, very minimal support as just editing. Otherwise, if they want support on the content, you should just upsell them into the community. So schools for six months, editing 2,500 for the 30 videos, then you can have the school like, you wanna have upsells in the school.
29:38So, like, after the six months, there needs to be, like, ongoing support. Something that people do to to have a decent level of success with that is, like, the upsell will be less per month. Like, let's say it's 4 k for six months up front, then it might be, like, 4 k a year after that.
29:50So, like, you get more time, but it's obviously less intensive because they're already onboarded and stuff. Also, it just helps with revenue retention. Like, literally, all you need for that is then a funnel.
29:56You need to switch into the mindset of, like, this is my offer. That's probably what's stopping you. Like, you have a shit ton of traffic coming in, but you're not actually, like Yeah.
30:03You're not actually being, like, this is what if if you are this type of person, this is how I'm gonna help you. Yeah. There's no reason that you shouldn't be selling, like, 50 of these a month already.
30:11But, like, with your traffic, like, how many views are you gonna last thirty days? Five mil, actually. That makes me absolutely sick.
30:15So you don't have a funnel? You don't have a VSL? Don't I got nothing.
30:18What's stopping you from doing that today? Don't know. Just being dumb or what?
30:20I think it's just, like, I've never done any of this that I'm like, I've never done that's why I'm, like, glad to, like, be chatting. I'll give you the VSL. Like, the ISP is what, like, small, medium sized businesses in Australia.
30:29Literally, all it needs to be, give me, like, six minutes. The hook is gonna be if you're a small to medium sized business in Australia, I'm talking type a, type b, type c, type d. It's my mission to get you leads from social media without any ad spend in just a couple hours a month.
30:43What I used to do was blah blah blah blah for for for LinkedIn. Then I walked inside a business, and you can talk about the fucking deli and the DVD shop that you helped, and I saw within one week that this business was changed forever. And I found that really if you're a small business, all you need is blank, blank, blank, blank, blank.
31:00So now what I'm doing is I wanna install a content system inside your business in the next ninety days to take you from blank to blank. Here's exactly how it works and exactly how you're gonna get results, and then you, like, just book a call.
31:13And that might be a shit VSL script. That might just be, like, your first one that you do, but there's no reason that with that outline, you can't just do that today. Then you could literally just do it on your phone.
31:19Do it outside the deli. What funnel hosting do you use? You don't have a funnel hoster.
31:23Webflow, ClickFunnels. ClickFunnels is too expensive to be. Like, $200 a month for ClickFunnels.
31:27Don't do it. I use it, but it's kinda criminal. You just use Lovable.
31:29Like, this is a Lovable website. Actually, this isn't this isn't even the one. Like, this is a Lovable website.
31:35Yeah. Like, it looks pretty fucking high quality, and this is, like, one shotted. This is, a one prompt.
31:38So all it is is, like, you have your fucking testimonials. Like Yep. It's literally headline, VSL, embedded typeformer, embedded scheduler Mhmm.
31:45Whatever your scheduler of choice is, Calendly, I closed, doesn't really matter what you're gonna get. Also recommend for you as well because you're self sabotaging sales calls, just make yourself a sales presentation. It's gonna be the easiest thing that you that you can do.
31:57Like, just a fucking slide deck. Yeah. I'll send you a template.
31:59That immediately, just with that intention of, like Yeah. I'm gonna post, like, two story CTAs a week, couple of many chat automations, blah blah blah. So in the funnel from top down will be, like, you have your viral reels.
32:10I would also have, like, a DM CTA in most of your captions or even a comment CTA. It's like, comment if you wanna get leads from social media. Like, I'll help you out or whatever.
32:17Like, you need to start, like, really triggering people to DM you. I got a piece of data from a coaching business that, um, 84% of their sales calls booked from IG organic were not self booked.
32:28They were from manual bookings from DMs, meaning the set of manually booking in from DMs. So if you're not really going hard in the DMs, you're gonna literally, like, leave, you know, 80 plus percent of your calls on the table. That's probably one DM set of the need to hire and, like, learn how to manage.
32:42I'd probably start building the process yourself so you can get, like, SOPs and shit in place. Literally, just for an hour a day, you sit in your DMs and just hammer people, the flow is, like, do one story CTA today, hammer DMs, get a process, get a setup, start doing the occasional free giveaway or, like, lead magnet on IG, which you already know how to do.
32:58Like, you should realistically be booking at least, like, fuck, 5,000,000 views. There's no reason that you can't book a couple 100 sales calls a month. But, like, even just by having a consistent CTA in the caption plus couple of story posts plus a couple of lead magnets, getting those combos going, I'd probably even do outbound to people that look qualified, who follow you.
33:14Most people in my market, they'll know that that's seller. So I was thinking of just voice noting about, hey. You look like you're a good fit for my offer.
33:20Are you looking into x, or, like, are you focusing on things like that? Yeah. Like, something like that is very direct.
33:24I like that. Especially with business owners, like, they probably follow you because they're, like, looking for some sort of tip, but they're not that aware. So just reaching out to them and starting the conversation in a direct way that's, respectable.
33:32Yeah. You can also just get a, like, a saved voice memo of that. Yeah.
33:36Yeah. So your setup can just rip it. And then, yeah, then eventually, the other option is just don't even CTA in your organic and just run ads Yeah.
33:42Which I think is fine. For the ads, I would just rip a VSL call funnel. Yeah.
33:46You have the VSL headline, VSL's Mhmm. Typeform embedded. And for a four k offer, you can probably target, like, a $203,100 dollar cost per call.
33:524 k for a business owner shouldn't really be that out of scope. You just wanna make sure you have the Typeform set up properly where you qualify the traffic in the Typeform or whatever so you don't trigger the pixel on unqualified leads. Simple way of going about it.
34:02So you just have the page there, then all you need to optimize for, cost per qualified call. You'll be able to make really, really good ads just from, like, your organic base. Yeah.
34:09The only thing you'll need to include is, like, with the organic style, you wanna have a couple that are more direct. Make sure to appeal to, like, the exact outcomes that they need. Okay.
34:17Because I saw Homo, you were saying, like, organic and paid content emerge. We've tested that. We'll launch pure organic posts and just put a CTA to buy or whatever we call.
34:25The organic that included specific outcomes and, like, included, like, outcomes, circumstances, problems. Mhmm. If that was in the organic or that was the main point of the organic, it performed, like, way, way outsized.
34:36Like, nothing that we'd launched that was organic that didn't have, like, specific problems, specific, um, outcomes that they wanted performed on pay. Okay. Which is a really interesting one.
34:44So for example, if you have something that's like a broad piece of organic that's viral Yeah. What I would do is reedit it Okay. With, like, an on screen text hook.
34:52If you're a small business looking at scale with content, get leads with content, watch this, and it's just, like, on your most viral piece of content Yeah. So, like, it qualifies for a certain outcome, then maybe you slap a CTA that's a little bit more direct. Shit like that, for you specifically, because you already have that organic skill set, that will be the unlock to be able to use your organic in a of a different way.
35:10Just with the mindset of, like, the stuff that's specifically appealing to the problems, you know, solutions, objections, blah blah blah, will be your best organic. I wouldn't just launch any random organic. How's your capacity for the coaching?
35:20Is that ready? Yeah. I'd say so.
35:22What's stopping you from running ads then? Just never run ads before. That's fine.
35:25So what you wanna do is CBO, you'll learn to understand this once you, like, just watch a couple YouTube videos. CBO, ad sets grouped by concept. So what's a concept?
35:32A concept is the angle, the format, the offer, and the person you're talking to. Mhmm. So you could even go in, look at all your customers, and say our best customers are lawyers.
35:41You wanna have a specific ad set with a specific angle, the specific format inside one ad set. Mhmm. You have, like, three to five variations of the ad Yeah.
35:49Inside the ad set, and that's one. That's one concept. Yeah.
35:52So you might launch with your first, like, five concepts. Mhmm. So you might have a couple of different ICPs, specific variations of the angle or whatever, like, hook variations.
35:59I like to do, like, three hooks, two bodies inside the ad set. So, like, let's say again, lawyers, the angle is get leads from social media in a direct way. Three hook variations, two body variations inside the ad set.
36:09You get five of those. Maybe you start with one ICP where you're typing all the same ICP across all ad sets. Yep.
36:14Maybe you start with your five best. It doesn't really matter. You just need to understand the variables or the angle format persona.
36:20Mhmm. The offer is gonna be the same in your case. You know how to do that.
36:22Like, you can go make ads Yeah. Yeah. Definitely.
36:24If you rip a CBO, $200 a day budget, five ad sets, you're off to the races. Okay. As soon as you launch a campaign if you've never launched a campaign before, as soon as you actually do it Yeah.
36:32The fear will start to subside. Yeah. Because it's really just a limiting belief of, like, I don't wanna touch the ad account.
36:37I think the other thing why I haven't run ads is, like, I didn't have anything to scale it to. Yeah. For sure.
36:41If it's an operational constraint, that's what I gonna I've never been opposed to it because, like, I've seen clients, like, do it with, like, our organic stuff, and I'm like, that looks good. The thing you need to understand, what are the So cost per click, how much does it cost me to get someone on the page? Page conversion rate, how many people from the page actually take the action?
36:56So let's say your cost per click is $5, then let's say your page conversion rate on a VSL call funnel, it's gonna be between 38% depending on your VSL and your offer and stuff. So it's like, okay.
37:05My target for a cost per click is gonna be, like, 4 to probably $12 for a four k offer. Your conversion rate is gonna be between 38%. Then the other variable there is weight quality.
37:14So, like, what's the quality of people that are actually coming through? Mhmm. That'll be a messaging thing.
37:17So first things first, we need to understand what's the cost per call we're targeting. Okay. So we had 250, $300 cost per call.
37:23You're gonna launch, and something might be off. So you might have an issue where you launch, you've spent your first thousand bucks, no calls. In that case, I'm gonna look at which of those metrics is off.
37:32Is it a cost per click issue, or is it a page conversion rate issue? Let's say it's page conversion rate. Immediately, I'm gonna check the play rate of the VSL.
37:38I'm gonna check the form friction. I'm gonna check the headline. I'm gonna check all the ad messaging again because the ad messaging also has an impact on page conversion rate.
37:46They're not driving enough intent, if it's not the right people landing in the page, if the page is incongruent with the ads, that's the sort of shit that can fuck up your conversion rate. Then let's say the play rate on the VSL is too low, I'm gonna mess with the headline and the thumbnail of VSL. I'm also probably gonna think if I'm using Wistia, we've seen higher play rates on Vidalytics just because of the way it looks.
38:02Then let's say the play rate's high. So the play rate is good, but the VSL isn't good. So then I'm probably gonna test either a completely new VSL or if I'm gonna test the first, like, ninety second of the VSL and swap something out.
38:12So that's gonna be based on the analytics of the VSL. I would change that out after the first, probably, one to 1.5 k spend if my conversion rate shit, and there's enough people landing on the page. Because the other thing that can fuck up your conversion rate is if your page is loading too slow, you can check a metric called click to landing page view rate, meaning, like, people can click the ad, but they don't actually end up landing page Mhmm.
38:31Because they bounce before it loads. So that's how you look at conversion rate. Let's say cost per click is fucked.
38:35I don't imagine you're running this problem because you'll probably make pretty good ads, most likely an ads issue. In general, if you spend 1.5 to two k, low conversions, probably an ads issue. Okay.
38:43But I do check the landing page as well just in case there's, like, a rookie mistake that's been made on that page. Mhmm. Then the third thing is lead quality.
38:49So the thing you're trying to measure for with lead quality is always messaging. You run the ads. You've spent $3 on ads.
38:55You have eight calls booked and six of them on unqualified. Nine times out of 10, they'll be coming from one ad. Yep.
39:00So you'll find that one ad like, when your lead call is broken, it's usually just the wrong ads are getting spent. Okay. Wrong ads meaning ads that bring bad quality leads are getting too much spend.
39:09Mhmm. So at the start, what you really need to do is you need to map the leads back to the ads. So let's say one ad's getting a thousand bucks of spend.
39:16I've booked four calls, $250 each, but they're all unqualified. I'm flipping that ad off. It's bringing low quality leads.
39:21Yeah. So you're trying to cycle through messaging to see where quality is coming from. You'll find massive outliers.
39:26But at the start, like, one ad will be the only good thing you have. You'll probably have, like, a 10% win rate of your ads. If you're good at the start and the offer is working, it's gonna work because, you know, it's a good offer.
39:34It's a good market. You're ready for it. And then the process is just that.
39:37And then you find a wing ad. I would break that out into a separate campaign Mhmm. To make sure you continue to spend on it.
39:42Because the other problem with the initial campaign structure of CBO is spend can fluctuate across different ads week to week. Your winning ad might spend a thousand bucks week one. Let's say your pixel's not operating properly.
39:52Let's say Meta sees high engagement on another ad. Mhmm. Meta will redistribute spend away from winners at times.
39:58So from a media buying standpoint, it's very confusing for people because they'll have results week one, less results week two. Week three, they'll look at their whole funnel and think that it's fucked. In reality, if you look at the spend distribution of specific ads, most of the time what happens is that you had a winning ad week one that was bringing lead quality.
40:13Week three, that winning ad probably got, a $100 of spend. The way you fix that is by breaking that out into either putting a minimum spend on the ad set, which you can do, or you can just break it into a different campaign and force spend onto it. You can run into trouble at the start.
40:26It's because I don't like putting one ad in one ad set because the way Meta works is it'll show someone will see, like, five ads before they convert. So if you only have one ad in ad set, it messes up the sequence. That makes sense.
40:36So when you're first trying to test, the Meta's thinking, like, what order do I need to show the ads to people to create a conversion? So you'll get an ad that might have $300 of spend, no conversions. You might think that ad's bad because it's not showing conversions.
40:49In reality, it was getting served as the first impression, and then another ad might have, like, $40 of spend, one conversion, and you're like, oh my god. This ad's getting $40 book calls. In reality, the whole funnel of the ads is generating that call.
41:00This is the way you think through media buying. Yeah. Honestly, everyone in lead gen and, like, client getting funnels, most people are super retarded of this.
41:08That concept alone Yeah. Most people don't know that. So as soon as you get into that flow of, like, I actually understand how this shit's working.
41:14How do I operate when lead quality's down? Is it an ad problem? Is it a funnel problem?
41:17Is it a messaging problem? You'll also run into issues with your sales process a lot. Like, if you bring on closes over time.
41:23Like, for example, we had a client who their sales team was just way too many leads. Right. They would just say, oh, they couldn't afford it, but I wanted to protect their close rate.
41:30Yeah. It's like that's a whole different ballgame that I don't really get into too much, but, like, that's what you wanna watch later. Mhmm.
41:36I'm just thinking through, like, what are the future problems that you'll experience? What do you think? Like, are just gonna run ads, get the BSL like, immediate actions, get the BSL funnel, promo hard on organic.
41:44Yeah. I would literally launch ads next week, three hours, based on what you said, just to start, just to begin doing it, get data, figure out what your winning ads are. You have a huge warm audience.
41:52Yeah. I think that was the biggest thing is just fucking have, like, clarity on something and just, like, go hard at it. You have one group call a day, maybe two hours a day of fulfillment.
42:00You have, like, four hours a day to just, like, make reels Yeah. And manage your ads. Like, god forbid, you gotta record some stuff.
42:05Yeah. And then you're pretty much good to go. The the problem most people have is, like, getting enough traffic and continually getting enough traffic.
42:10So if you can solve for that over time? Wait. What you're saying about the ads, like, whole feedback loop, like, I I enjoy that stuff.
42:16It's like little problem solving, so I just I'm sure, like, as I do it more and more because it's similar to organic where you're just testing stuff and seeing what lands. If you're an organic person that learns ads Yeah. You're in a very, very good position.
42:29Any questions or, like, you feel like pretty clear, like, rip the VSL funnel Yeah. Promo the coaching hard. You've got a very good idea of what's gonna be included in that.
42:36Yeah. That should be ready. Deliverables are all ready.
42:38Start running ads next week. I think what you'll find with switching from agency to coaching is the frame is quite different. Like, the client's more like asking you how to get the result Yeah.
42:48A lot more than with agency. Yeah. Because sometimes with agency, like, kind of can fall into the wrong frame of, like, you're just doing deliverables and, like, why is this deliverable not ready yet or whatever.
42:56But Yeah. Even as an agency, same as a coach, like, you need to just kind of have the a consultative frame to push to the issues.
43:03Yeah. Yeah. I think you'll be pretty well positioned to handle that.
43:06I think so too. What revenue are you gonna hit by what date with coaching off? I don't know.
43:11What what do you think is possible? I think you should be able to hit a 100 k month within, like, four to five months, probably. Yeah.
43:19Considering what you've got built up, track record with the agency, plus you already got revenue from the agency, it should be. Yeah. Especially if you run ads as well, if you can really crack the ad funnel and, like, literally just rip a VSL funnel, think, like, my only purpose in life is to book calls for $250.
43:34That's all I have to do. Yeah. If I do that and I can close and I book a 100 sales calls a month Yeah.
43:39Close 25, you're done. Yep. Finished.
43:41That makes sense. Then you figure out, oh, fuck. My show rate's 60% action.
43:44You book a 140 calls. A 140 calls. Okay.
43:46What's that gonna cost me on ads? 140 times $2.50, 30 k on ads, 35 k on ads.
43:51So then it's like, okay. I need to spend a thousand bucks down ads. Mhmm.
43:55That's like the next skill set in terms of paid. When you're saying 4 k, is that USD? Should I just straight go to USD or what?
44:00I mean, if you're only selling to Australia, like, they're probably sure get four k USD. Yeah. I think so.
44:04Australians think 4 k USD is more expensive than 6 k AUD. It's just such a shock when you see the conversion. They just don't even know.
44:11Yeah. Like, you think of, like, the average business. They don't even think about what what USD is Yeah.
44:15In Australia. Like, it's just not a thing. Yeah.
44:17If you sell to an Internet business, they don't they don't really have service rock. Maybe I start a 4 k AUD, and then when I start traveling and doing the series, like, overseas, that's when I switch to 4 k USD. Yeah.
44:27Especially for your first, like, pen coaching clients, like, you can have it at a bit below price and Yeah. Just increase it over time. I would be aiming to get it up over time.
44:35Yeah. Like, there's not really any re especially if you get crazy results, which you should be able to do. Yeah.
44:40There's no reason you couldn't charge 12 for it. Yeah. It's true.
44:43Especially if you work with bigger businesses. Key is them. Like, all the messaging Yeah.
44:47Across the funnel in terms of your sales stuff needs to be very dialed. Mhmm.
44:51A little bit higher into the market than what the average does. Mhmm. Like, for example, Brandon, he does a really good job.
44:56He's never talking about small businesses. Like, he's talking to small businesses, and he might say the word small businesses, but his messaging is never, like, towards broke people. Yeah.
45:06And that's that's the trap of the most, like, content people. If you're running a business, you learn how to make content because it's gonna make your business so much better. Like, all these other ones is, like, almost, like, learn how to build a personal brand so you can sell a fitness coaching offer in six months.
45:17And then it's just Australian, like oh, mix, like, Daniel Isles with Brandon, and that will equal, like, a really good Aussie content offer. Yeah. And that'll that that should get you your first, like, 7 figures with this offer probably.
45:27Then you can expand elsewhere if you need to. Yeah. Honestly, I imagine if you want to stay in Australia in terms of serving Australia, you probably can.
45:34Then you can just move your group calls to the afternoon in Australia and fuck off to Europe. It's a plan. We're good to go.
45:40Yeah. Any questions before I let you go or pretty clear? Just run it.
45:43Yeah. I think the only thing that'll get in your way is just, like, you would actually do it. Yeah.
45:46Like, literally, I'll just make a list of, like, these are the 10 things I need to do and just try to shorten the time frame by what you're doing. Like, I'll try to get all this done by end of week. Even if you're not gonna scale the ad funnel, I would just launch the campaign Mhmm.
45:56$100 a day to start just to see what's gonna happen. I'm excited for you. I think it's gonna be really good.
46:00Oh, my god. Thank you. Do another bid after you print the 500 k months.
46:04Give me September
The Hook
The bait, then the rug-pull.
Five million monthly organic views and zero dollars to show for it: no funnel, no offer, not even a way to book a call. Over the next forty-six minutes, a paid-ads agency owner sits with a friend who built that audience and reverse-engineers, in real time, what happens when raw reach finally gets pointed at a real offer.
How they asked for the click.
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