Don't Quit YouTube Yet... (Think Media Podcast w/ Nicky Saunders)
Sean Cannell interviews creator Nicky Saunders on the seven-year, gradually-then-suddenly path from freelance hustle to a six-figure, three-person content business.
Posted
6 days ago
Duration
Format
Interview
sincere
Views
11.5K
415 likes
Big Idea
The argument in one line.
Going full-time as a creator is rarely overnight — it happens gradually for years through unglamorous experimentation, then compounds suddenly once you find your specific formula of impact, money, and feeling.
Who This Is For
Read if. Skip if.
READ IF YOU ARE…
You've been creating content part-time for years without a clear payoff and wonder if it's still working.
You're weighing whether to archive or pivot away from a project (channel, podcast, brand) that grew an audience but isn't the right long-term direction.
You want a framework for deciding which of your content experiments to double down on versus let die.
You're building a personal brand and are unsure how to balance the creative side with the business side.
SKIP IF…
You're looking for tactical algorithm/SEO tips — this is a mindset and journey conversation, not a growth-hacking tutorial.
You want a fast-track or overnight-success story — the whole thesis here is that it took seven years.
TL;DR
The full version, fast.
Nicky Saunders spent about seven years building toward full-time content creation — freelancing for Eric Thomas, going live daily on Instagram, then running a podcast (Nicky and Moose) for three years and 180+ episodes before shutting it down from burnout, even as it grew to 18,000 subscribers. She frames her path as gradually, then suddenly: years of low-signal experiments (a podcast sponsorship, a ten-cent payout) followed by roughly a year of rapid compounding once she found her formula of community-building, brand deals, and in-person experiences. Her core lesson is to track three metrics — money, views, and feeling — rather than optimizing for any one, because chasing views alone breeds burnout and chasing money alone breeds resentment. She also warns that a single viral episode can condition an algorithm and audience that don't match your long-term brand, and that the hardest but most valuable skill is recognizing when a project, format, or topic needs to die. Her closing advice: commit only if you can see doing this for ten years, run cheap experiments to collect data instead of relying on feelings, and lean into self-awareness and authenticity as the actual differentiator against AI-generated content.
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Sean Cannell poses the central question (is it still possible to go full-time as a creator) and introduces Nicky Saunders, previewing the gradually-then-suddenly arc of her story.
01:23 – 05:40
02 · The seven-year timeline
Nicky traces her path from Instagram Lives helping Eric Thomas in 2016-17, through the pandemic-era podcast she co-started, to going all-in on her own channel roughly a year before it clicked.
05:40 – 12:00
03 · Try everything, then measure
The 'try everything' philosophy — livestreaming, Substack, unedited daily posts — framed as data collection via 'tiny experiments' across three metrics: money, views, and feeling.
12:00 – 18:00
04 · Building 'the world' — community over content
Nicky reframes her work as building a world for introverts/ambiverts to feel seen, and floats the idea of creators as fractional team members bridging business owners and content skill.
18:00 – 23:40
05 · The Nicky and Moose podcast: rise and burnout
The three-year, 180+ episode podcast that grew to 18,000 subscribers, the mistakes of chasing trending topics (Kevin Hart, Anthony O'Neil), and the eventual decision to sunset it.
23:40 – 29:30
06 · Why a viral hit can hurt you long-term
The Anthony O'Neil episode drew views but low retention and conditioned an algorithm/audience mismatch; lesson: archive or unlist content that doesn't match the brand, however tempting the view count.
29:30 – 30:30
07 · Sponsor break — Think Media Mastermind
A testimonial-style insert for the Think Media Mastermind event.
30:30 – 35:00
08 · Impact over metrics, and the churn-rate payoff
Nicky argues impact brings money even when it's not immediately visible in metrics; long community retention (over a year, low churn) comes from making people feel seen, not from views alone.
35:00 – 37:50
09 · Life today: happy in a Honda
Nicky describes her current lifestyle as intentionally modest — no Rolexes, downsized to a three-person team — prioritizing happiness and freedom over flex-economy signaling.
37:50 – 42:40
10 · Advice for someone starting from zero
The ten-year commitment test, balancing creative strength with learned business skills, running cheap experiments across every monetization stream, and letting go of what stops being fun.
42:40 – 44:50
11 · 2026 outlook + close
AI and competition are real challenges, but self-awareness and authenticity are the counter — illustrated by a 77-year-old first-time creator hitting 37,000 views on her debut video; sign-off and where to follow Nicky.
Atomic Insights
Lines worth screenshotting.
Overnight success is rarely overnight: Nicky Saunders spent roughly seven years building before one year of rapid, compounding growth.
A single viral episode can hurt a channel long-term by attracting an audience that only wants that one topic and won't stick around for anything else.
The smartest move for a piece of content that goes viral off-brand may be to archive or unlist it rather than let it keep pulling in the wrong audience.
Tracking three metrics at once — money, views, and feeling — prevents the two failure modes of burnout: chasing views with no income, or chasing income with no joy.
A podcast that ran three years and 180+ episodes, grew to 18,000 subscribers, and still got shut down from burnout is not a failure — it's a completed season.
The hardest skill for a creator to learn is recognizing when a project, topic, or format needs to die, not just when to keep pushing.
Celebrating a first ten cents or first $2.12 in earnings is a legitimate milestone, because it proves the mechanism works before the amount matters.
The rule before you can build a team is you first have to be on a team — working inside other people's platforms and companies teaches what to copy and what to avoid.
"Tiny experiments" — running a fixed-duration test purely to collect data, detached from feelings — replaces guesswork with evidence in deciding what to keep doing.
Business owners are generally weak at making content, and content creators are generally weak at running the business side — the overlap is an underused niche.
Self-awareness about your own childhood interests (music videos, computers, community) directly explains and predicts your content strengths as an adult.
In an AI-saturated content landscape, authenticity and self-awareness are what differentiate a creator, because AI-generated content runs off a framework, not a lived personality.
A creator with 500 AI agents and a team of three can still run a six-figure content business — team size has stopped being the constraint.
Commit to content creation only if you can picture doing it for ten years; anything shorter suggests you're chasing the payoff, not the work itself.
A 77-year-old first-time creator with zero prior social media presence posted her first video after a five-week cohort and got 37,000 views, showing the door is still open in 2026.
Takeaway
Going full-time is a seven-year data-collection project, not an overnight break.
WHAT TO LEARN
Sustainable creator success comes from running small experiments across money, views, and feeling — and from having the courage to let projects die once they've done their job.
Expect years of low-signal effort before any visible payoff; the timeline described here was roughly seven years of grinding, then about one year of rapid compounding.
Track three separate metrics — money, views, and feeling — rather than one, since optimizing for a single metric is what produces burnout.
Treat unfamiliar formats as fixed-duration experiments meant purely to collect data, not as permanent commitments you have to love immediately.
A single viral piece of content that's off-brand can do long-term damage by training an algorithm and audience around the wrong topic; archiving it can be the smarter move than chasing the view count.
A project that grew an audience and still gets shut down (a podcast at 18,000 subscribers, 180+ episodes) is not a failure — it's a completed, valuable season that taught real lessons.
The hardest and most valuable creative skill is recognizing when a topic, format, or product needs to end, not just knowing when to keep pushing through.
Commit to a creative path only if you can picture sustaining it for roughly ten years; shorter time horizons usually signal you're chasing an outcome rather than the process.
Self-awareness about your own personality and childhood interests is a practical tool for finding your content niche and differentiating from AI-generated content.
Long-term audience retention (low churn) comes from making people feel seen and connected, not from raw view counts alone.
First earnings milestones, however tiny (a first ten cents, a first $2.12), are legitimate proof points worth celebrating because they validate the mechanism before the scale.
Glossary
Terms worth knowing.
Gradually, then suddenly
A framing (from Mark Batterson) describing how large changes — debt, business growth, going full-time — build slowly and invisibly for a long stretch before compounding into a fast, visible shift.
Tiny experiments
A method of running short, fixed-duration content tests purely to gather objective data (views, money, feeling) rather than making decisions based on gut feeling alone.
Churn rate
The rate at which paying community or subscription members cancel over a given period; used here as a proxy for how well a creator retains an audience long-term.
Flex economy
The subset of creator content built around displaying wealth and material success (cars, trips, luxury goods) as the core value proposition.
Fractional (role)
A part-time or contract-based executive or specialist role where a professional works for a company without being a full-time employee.
Resources
Things they pointed at.
04:20bookGradually, Then Suddenly (concept, attributed to Mark Batterson)
“I'm not on the flex economy... my family's good and in great health, and that's the only thing that matters to me in my little Honda, and I'm okay with that.”
“The smarts of a really good creator is understanding when things need to die.”
sharp, counterintuitive thesis on quitting well→ newsletter pull-quote↗ Tweet quote
43:30
“What is rare is authenticity... it's still not tangible. Not everybody is authentic.”
closing thesis on differentiation in an AI-saturated market→ TikTok hook↗ Tweet quote
Topic Map
Where the conversation goes.
00:00 – 05:40denseOrigin story / seven-year timeline
05:40 – 12:00denseExperimentation philosophy
12:00 – 18:00steadyCommunity and creator-as-fractional-exec
18:00 – 30:30densePodcast rise, mistakes, and burnout
30:30 – 37:50steadyImpact vs metrics, lifestyle
37:50 – 44:50denseClosing advice + 2026 outlook
The Script
Word for word.
Read-along
Don't just watch it. Burn it in.
See every word as it's spoken — crank it to 2× and still catch all of it. The same dual-channel trick behind Amazon's Kindle + Audible.
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metaphoranalogystory
00:00Is it still possible to become a part time or a full time content creator even with increasing competition, even with algorithms changing? Well, the answer is yes.
00:09And today's guest proves that not only is it possible,
00:13but that it's not overnight. It took long and then happened fast. Five, six years that you were doing, cool.
00:18This one year that you figured it out, here's all the brand deals, here's the community building, and that's when it started to click. I didn't even know what I wanted to do. I was one of the kids that just didn't know what they wanted to be in life.
00:30The whole point of going full time is to be able to wake up with pure joy of wanting to do this. For the listener that would aspire, if they are starting from scratch today or thinking about some principles or how they might approach that, what just advice would you have for people that wanna go full time as a content creator?
00:50Today on the Think Media Podcast, we're actually joined by Nikki Saunders who has built over 300,000 followers across platforms, a 6 figure income, but she didn't start there. She started with nine to five jobs and freelancing and serving in the navy and figuring out her path. And the cool thing is that there are principles you can apply to your own journey.
01:09So if you wanna go part time or full time as a YouTuber, content creator, then this is the episode for you.
01:15Let's lock in because it's packed full of nuggets. Here we go. Overnight success is never overnight.
01:21How would you answer the question of how long did it take you to go full time as a content creator?
01:27I would I would really have to say from a long version, probably about seven years per se.
01:38And then they're, like, ramped up in, like, a year, year and a half. Right? Um, so I started creating content on Instagram, going live, everything like that when I was helping Eric Thomas.
01:52Uh, that was the only thing that I had that I could do on a consistent basis was go live.
02:06Right? Um, and I started to see how the Instagram was growing, but it wasn't kinda making any type of money. And then this is where I realized, okay.
02:17We were the pandemic started, and so everybody was, like, trying to figure out content, trying to figure out different ways. So I had started a podcast, uh, called the Nicky and Moose, and that was doing good.
02:30It had a few views. We had one sponsorship. It was it was making a little so it it gave me that itch of, like, okay.
02:38This kid this has something. Right? Um, but it wasn't until probably when I went all in on my own channel, um, all in on being consistent on multiple platforms in a specific niche where it was like, okay.
02:58That that five, six years that you were doing, cool. This one year that you figured it out, here's all the brand deals, here's the community building, here's the the merch, here's all that, And that's when it started to click, like, okay.
03:17I don't have to worry about nine to five stuff. I don't have to worry about figuring out different freelance stuff and all of that, and, uh, but it happened so it took long and then happened fast.
03:50And then suddenly, you're like, wait a minute. How do we get so far into debt? So the this idea of gradually, then suddenly, that's fascinating.
03:56Now, of course, you're sitting in the place today where a lot of people wanna be. They wanna be part time or full time income. They wanna be generating real money from content.
04:05Yeah. And we can talk about those principles, but I'm fascinated in the timeline and in the lessons of how you got through those gradually years.
04:13Yeah. So just to kinda put the timeline together, February, you're doing freelance content Mhmm.
04:21For Eric Thomas Yep. Among other things. And that's and then you start doing stuff on Instagram.
04:26And then before we hit record, you said around 2023 Yeah. You sunsetted a podcast.
04:32Yes. Went all in on your own stuff, and that's been your growth place. Okay.
04:36So what were you doing to pay the bills since 2016?
04:41Yeah. So I had different client work, right, for content creation, running social media pages, and things of that nature. And that was cool.
04:50I think that helps me get in the game of, like, really figuring out the love that I had, which was just content creation. Itself. Right.
04:59and did you do that intentionally that if, like, the thing you wanted to do eventually by yourself, like, have a personal brand, if you could do it for somebody else, you could do it as a freelancer. It just helps you, like, compound something you love and practice Yeah.
05:14uh, my my my big brother CJ always told told me, like, uh, before you can get a team, you gotta be on a team. Mhmm. Right?
05:21And so I I take that in all kinda different aspects of before you get big, you have to be on other platforms that are big. You have to be with around different teams that are big. Right?
05:32And so seeing it from different personal brands, different big companies, how they do things, I was like, okay. I know what to do and what I don't wanna do.
05:42Mhmm. Like, one of the things that, uh, a lot of people do that I don't personally like doing is the daily webinars and stuff. I can't do that.
05:52I could do quarterly. You know what mean? Like, maybe I could do that, but I had to go through what they did.
05:59I had to see it from their aspect. I had to see the money that can come from that, try it, and then be like, no.
06:06I I'm not gonna do that, or, yes, that works for my thing. The the thing that I learned very well was try everything. You don't know what you don't like until you try everything.
06:18When you say try everything, could that look like try livestreaming,
06:21try shorts, but what else could that look like? Like, that could be,
06:25uh, try building a community. Try doing, you know, writing when it's not your natural.
06:33Right? So start a substack. Start your own blog, you know.
06:37Uh, go live every single day for a whole month. Go and post non edited videos, just you on your phone for three months straight.
06:48Like, the the thing that I've learned by doing things that I wasn't comfortable with or that didn't come natural to me is that I needed to collect data. Mhmm.
06:57It's sometimes not about how I feel. It's about what the audience wants and what the platform wants. Right?
07:04Um, with a sense of how I feel. And so there's a there's this book.
07:09I think it was called, like, small experiments or something like tiny experiments. And what was good about it is, like, everything is an experiment. So what you're doing is saying, okay.
07:21I'm gonna do this from this day to this day, and it's only purely for collecting data. And so whether it is from a money standpoint, whether it's from a view standpoint, whether it's from a feeling standpoint, how does that all play into part?
07:36And so that's how I was starting to make my moves, not just off of feelings, not just off of views, not just off of money, but all three of them to be like, okay. I like this because I've seen it being on these big teams.
07:49I've seen where the money thing happens and how a lot of creators get burnt out and, uh, just miserable when they're just focusing on the money.
07:59Or they're only focusing on the views and they don't got no money, so then they get burnt out off of that way, and then they're almost guaranteed to go back to a nine to five. And so I was like, okay. Let's do three metrics and see how that goes along to figure out what is my, like, full time, part time formula.
08:19So what did you eventually discover? I discovered that I'm a great community builder. I love working with brands, so brand deals have been great for me.
08:29Right? And I love experiences, meaning not necessarily like the mastermind style, like that per se, but more of bringing people together and, like, locking in on, uh, like, finding a hotel and us just working and creating something at the end.
09:02one thing that has been real big for me is what is the world that I'm building? Right?
09:07Not what is and I say community because that's, like, the common trend word, but what is the world that I'm building? How for me, I'm big on introverts and amiverts feeling, uh, seen and heard by being their authentic self, creating content, being a global brand without burning out.
09:28That's my biggest thing. How do we create that world that allows them to do that with the right systems, with the right support, and all of that? So for me, it's it's looking at my own life, and that's what I've realized that the best creators do is, like, looking at their own life and what has made them get to the next level, what has helped them be happy, what has helped them go through, uh, get out of the burnout and everything like that.
09:55Why am I not creating that for others? Why am I just keeping that and realizing people be like, yes. I wanna be a part of that.
10:03Yeah. I want I actually wanna pay for that. Like, I like, yes.
10:07The educate especially in this AI world, education is so available. It's how are you making me feel accepted, but also guiding me through all of this overwhelm.
10:21And so that's what I've been building with the with lion's behavior where, okay, I have the educational side when I wanna tap into it.
10:31I have the, uh, in person stuff when I wanna tap into it. And then, of course, I love working we're talking about so many different tools and all that. I love working with different brands because that's another another way of working inside of, like, until I can figure out my own, quote, unquote, tool or on my own product, I'm looking at how these other AI tools are doing it.
10:53I'm seeing their launch product. I'm seeing how they're doing it and the importance of how creators are.
10:59Like, my my goal now is, like, what is the big company that just needs a content creator that in an executive role?
11:10Because So you're now thinking about from the place of influence and authority that you've built Mhmm. About becoming, like, a fractional
11:16team member of the right AI tool partner? Not not not even from a AI tool per se because what I'm realizing is, like, business owners suck at creating content.
11:40Not necessarily just like, okay. I talk about AI, get more AI tools, more of that. But, like, I have a strong tool.
11:48Most content creators have a strong tool of storytelling, of attention, of the already a built in audience.
11:57And these business owners are like, you're exactly what I need, and I'm I'm trying to create content, and it's not really working.
12:08Well, because you're getting people who are building the actual product to try to create content. Let us do it. Let us, like, but that's a role.
12:17That's like a high like, I know exactly what you need. I know how many content creators you probably need on your team. Mhmm.
12:24I know the campaigns you need and things of that nature. I'm looking at things in that nature now of, oh, content creators have a whole new role if they look at it in that way.
12:36It's not just the product service, but it's also Fortune 500.
12:44They may be able to put you in a c suite type vibe Yeah. If you know what you're doing. That's actually kinda fascinating.
12:52You know, I want to unpack these years before you went full time. Yeah. But I think as even a side quest, for somebody who's aspiring to be a full time content creator, they could maybe redefine what does that even mean.
13:03Yeah. Meaning, we've had multiple people, like, in our VRA program become even employees or contractors Mhmm.
13:10To be the hired talent to represent a company. Yeah.
13:14So it's little bit different than what you're talking about because you already have your own you know, like, you're very established, and you've got, like, that independent income. Mhmm. But as you know, what does mean I I I think a lot of us wanna be independent, but being a full time content creator perhaps by definition means you make a full time living creating content.
13:29That's fine. And so if a company could pay your salary so you could be the face for them, then you're a full time content creator.
13:37So I'm curious, though, back to these years when it's part time Yep. When you're juggling multiple things.
13:44Yep. What do you think are, like, the mindsets or the principles that did you always wanna do what you're doing right now?
13:51No. I didn't even know what I wanted to do. I was the I was one of the kids that just didn't know what they wanted to be in life.
13:57If you've been feeling stuck on YouTube or you wish you were getting results faster, I recommend checking out viralvideocoach.com. You know, years ago in my life, was experiencing chronic pain in both arms. It was up to a level 10.
14:10It was so frustrating. My hope was actually going down and I ran into a bunch of dead ends. I bought some books on it.
14:17I didn't actually read them. I'm sure the books were good. I bought some online courses and again, did about half but still found my stuff unable to fully solve the pain.
14:26But then everything changed when I hired a specialist. And that really is what viralvideocoach.com is.
14:33We have a coaching program here at Think Media that will give you the accountability and the support and the feedback so that you can see the things that you can't see, the opportunities on your channel, fixing what's broken. And whether you wanna start and accelerate, or whether you're an expert and a business owner that wants more leads and customers and just wants the shortcut to doing YouTube right.
14:55So just go to viralvideocoach.com, fill out a short form, and then we'll walk you through all of the next steps. There's a link in the show notes.
15:02You could use that as well. And with that, let's dive back into the podcast. Okay.
15:07So do you think by your personality you were just one who just like, enjoy life and experiment? Yes. So you're sort of following where life takes you and your career was more organic?
15:16Yeah. Because I so I started in the navy as one, I didn't even have a job. Right?
15:22So which is so not recommended. So I was doing all, like, the grunt work, painting and everything like that, but exploring
15:30everybody else's job Yeah. To see what I want. Right?
15:33And then I went into IT still exploring what I wanted to do because I felt like that really wasn't it. Right?
15:41And then when I got out and then I was like, I have something about this content thing, but I went into let's manage social media not knowing I I was getting closer.
15:53Right? Everything is still closer to what I am doing right now, but I never had that, like, I know this is what it is.
16:03And I and I live very, like, what you know, what's meant for me is meant for me. Like, if I get an idea, it's from a higher power.
16:12If it's this, like, if I'm going in certain path, it's coming from a higher power. I'm great with that. When I'm looking at now the path of, like, the part time side, I'm looking for, like, little momentum things.
16:25Like, I was so happy when Instagram gave me 10¢. I was like, we got something.
16:30Interesting. When YouTube find like, gave us a dollar, what? We're about to blow.
16:37Like, I just needed something to be like because the great thing about content creators is that we have I say ideas are clouds.
16:47Like, you can't touch them. Right? They're just in our heads.
16:51And the fact that we can create a video and it not only gets impact, but there's also monetization from it, it's now a matter of how do we multiply that. Mhmm.
17:01It's okay. I got 10¢. Now I said I wanted to make money.
17:05I didn't say how much. This that's that's another thing. How are we getting specific with how much we wanna make?
17:10But I didn't say how much, but we made it. So now how do I make it into $10?
17:16How do I make it now into a 100? How do I make it now into a thousand? Now we're starting to get specific with okay.
17:22I don't wanna just make money with content creation. Now I wanna make 6 figures Yeah. In content creation.
17:55Celebrating small wins. Absolutely. And, like yeah.
17:58I I remember when I made my first $2.12 from affiliate marketing Yeah. In 2010.
18:04It is illogical that I should be excited on the one hand because I could go wait tables that night and make a $100 in tips. Right.
18:11But I wanted to click my heels like a leprechaun because I was like, well, this is real. Yes. It's $2.12.
18:16Yes. So how do I scale it? So that that grind to being a part time or full time content creator can feel overwhelming.
18:23Mhmm. Um, and it is, and it could take a lot of time, but celebrate when you first get monetized or when you make that first 10¢ from a creator program or whatever it is.
18:35What else on the journey do you think and thank you for your service, by the way, as well.
18:41From your upbringing or from maybe your mindset, maybe where you see other people getting stuck and giving up.
18:48What is it that keeps you going or that could be a useful tool for listeners when they're building a side hustle and they're maybe overwhelmed with their main hustle in their nine to five? Yeah.
18:57So I have to remember that impact brings money.
19:02Right? Um, and that's a very hard thing to, like, really grasp Mhmm.
19:09In this whole attention views, like, era that we're in.
19:13Because, uh, for example, when I sunsetted the podcast, right, I thought no one really was watching it. Right?
19:21Because you're looking at metrics. The full story. You had a podcast just again Yep.
19:25Called Nicky and Moose. We had it for, like, three years. That's a long time.
19:28Yes. How many episodes? It was a 182 or 84, something around there.
20:36But it taught me that the impact because because they were saying this, brands will start looking at it of like, oh, you got their attention, and they followed you to your next situation.
20:55Right? Um, and at the of course, I think in any content creator's journey, there's gonna be a season where you just focus on money.
21:04Right? It's almost like that weird survival mode. Try to pay the bills.
21:08Right. Money for the I gotta I gotta figure this out if this is going to be a thing. And what I realized because I had that part time stuff with e and everything like that, I was able to, like, focus on the money, but really focus on the impact more.
21:27That's why I was okay starting a whole brand new channel because we had like 18,000 subscribers and everything like that.
21:35I could have just pivoted, unlisted some things and try to make it work. I started a whole new channel and but I took the lessons that I learned from that channel of like, okay, We're not gonna talk about all these other topics.
21:49We're going to focus unpack this a little bit. Yeah. I was gonna ask you that.
21:52The lessons you learned, you got to do a podcast. Yeah. It grew to a place where people were sad it was ending.
21:57Yeah. It grew to 18,000 subscribers, but it also had some flaws or some lessons. Oh, absolutely.
22:02And then you launched more informed each time in every iteration of your brand. Yeah. What were those lessons or mistakes you'd say you made?
22:09One was not talking about seven different things in, like, a a month. Right? You guys talked about, like, seven different things.
22:18So even though we thought we had the theme of, like, business and personal branding, right, we were still relying too much on
22:29trending content. So if Kevin Hart did something, a launch, and we would try to focus on the business side and everything, but we were still leveraging Kevin Hart's
22:41brand. Right? So you mighta had a breakout episode.
22:46But it wasn't necessarily everybody was clicking to learn about business and branding. Yep. Whatever you packaged it as, and the temptation could also be to package it Yeah.
22:55In such a broad appeal way Yes. That it'll get max views, but won't necessarily build the best audience. Right.
23:00It might harm the audience over time. And I didn't know that at the time. Your subscribers or whatever.
23:04A a great example that we did was we interviewed Anthony O'Neil. Right?
23:10Amazing, amazing interview. We talked about his content journey, his brand, his going growing his YouTube and all of that.
23:18But there was one question that we talked about, which was, a, why did you leave Dave Ramsey to go on your own and create this brand that you have still going around what we normally talk about?
23:31Yep. But it it people saw that and thought drama.
23:57So something that we thought was like, okay. This is gonna make a lot of money. Right?
24:01It was it was decent, but we knew it could have been better. And then we realized that one hurt the channel.
24:09And so our views started to tank because people were seeking more information like that.
24:18Yep. And we couldn't figure it out for the life of us, so we were continuously putting out stuff where we should have just archived
24:27that one. We should have unlisted that in hopes of keeping that Which is smart, but also counterintuitive because, basically, in a way, like, a a video that's going viral Yep. For you Yep.
24:37Is a video that actually should be archived and made private. Yep.
24:42Because ultimately, it's conditioning the algorithm with a long term audience that you don't really want, or that the next upload that's coming is not something that's gonna satisfy them. At all.
24:53That takes it seems like it's a lesson that for many content creators is hard to learn, and you sometimes don't learn it until you might learn it painfully. Mhmm. What do you think it is?
25:02Do you think it's ego ignorance that we chase algorithms and not necessarily impact?
25:30Like a practical creator. It's unconventional because this conversation is like it's curiosity. Mhmm.
25:35It's seasons. It's persevere over here. Let's do this.
25:39But at the same time, there are principles. And and there's so many patterns yourself, hundreds of people we've now interviewed Yeah.
25:45You know, our students, your students. Like, it's wild.
25:49It's not quite as linear Right. As other careers, but it's a real career. Right.
25:53And and we're starting to see it now. I think this is like the third, fourth year in Forbes where they just have Forbes content creators and everything. Like, it's a thing.
26:02But before, it was it wasn't necessarily like, we would still just look at as views and followers and, you know, just pure metrics.
26:12And so we didn't under we knew, okay, there's impact to it. There's money to it, but you don't get that until you get the views and the followers so we thought.
26:24Right? We thought it was only big views, big followers. So and so it's a it's a ignorant situation because you don't know anything until you're in the game.
26:32When you're in the game, you then you start to go outside and you start to hear, uh, what people are saying. You start to read the DMs.
26:40You start to get the emails, and you're like, oh, okay. This is this is a different this is not what I expected. You know?
26:47This is a a relationship that I'm I'm building with the audience. This is a true connection that I was there Monday, uh, at 9PM situation, and I took that away.
27:00And and now, um, a father and daughter is riding in silence going back to their crib when they were used to used to listen to the show. Like, that that right there had changed a lot for me to where it's like, okay.
27:16The things that we come out with has to be impactful. It has to be in order to level up or create some type of connection with our with our audience.
27:26It can't just be views because it doesn't do anything. It doesn't make our audience feel any better, and it doesn't bring more money to our pockets for the long term. If I can make my audience happy, they're going to continue to pay me for long term.
27:44Yep. Right? Where we can it for people who build communities, we hear this this lovely, uh, term called churn rate.
27:53Right? And so some people have, like, a three month churn rate or whatever.
27:58I have people in my community for over a year, like and they plan to go nowhere.
28:06Not necessarily because they're using all the resources that I have or anything like that. They're like, yo. I feel the most seen and heard here.
28:16I know you care, and that's the most important. Like, the impact is is so important.
28:22And so, yeah, the the views are great, and I look at it in the sense of the metrics still has to attract people that don't know us, meaning the brands. Yep.
28:33You know? Um, so there has to be a strategy of, alright, we still have to pay these types of bills with this type of metrics.
28:43But now if we're thinking about long term bills, right, long term money, how are we building this connection? What is those different pieces of content that was gonna connect it?
28:54That's why lives are so important to me. Yeah. I do, uh, like, probably a two and a half, three hour live every Monday just for that.
29:03I want to pour in so much to you that you are like, I love you. Where are we going next? I'm I'm taking this ride with you.
29:12Right? And I think lives are the most underrated but best converting
29:17content. Interesting. That's because of depth too.
29:20If someone's hanging with you for thirty minutes, an hour, two and a half hours, three hours. Um, okay. So in a second, I wanna get, like, kinda just your principles that you would encourage somebody who's starting from zero Yep.
29:32Or somebody who wants to go part time or full time Yep. And your advice to them today, in today's world with today's tools, maybe what you would do differently Yep. In just a second.
29:42But before we do, I'm curious. Describe where you sit now. You when did you go full time?
30:34Situation. I might as well go back to freelancing or something like that because I was doing stuff I didn't want to do. The whole point of going full time and doing the things that I do now is to be able to wake up with pure joy of wanting to do this, Right?
30:51Um, and not focusing on like, I don't have to worry about money
30:58in a sense of, like, I'm checking my bank accounts like I used to. If you're an entrepreneur or a creator that wants to scale their online business, that's why we created the Think Media Mastermind.
31:08Well, I have so much more clarity as to my ideal target audience now, which means my content is about to be so much better and more targeted towards the exact person I'm trying to reach. Super intimate,
31:20I had the skills that I already knew sharpened. I feel like I went to my next level. For entrepreneurs
31:28and creators that wanna scale with YouTube. This was the first time that I was able to get in a room with a lot of other serious YouTubers and talk with other people who love creating content and love YouTube.
31:40Usually, don't get to do that, so this is really special. You could check it out at thinkmediamastermind.com.
31:46Yeah. Not sitting here like I'm going to Bora Bora every single week either. Right?
31:51Um, I'm not on the flex economy as I like to say. There's a whole section of people who like to just create the content of what they're doing with it.
32:06My family's good and in great health, and that's the only thing that matters to me in my little Honda, and I'm okay with that. Right? And how big is your team grown?
32:15Uh, we are we actually downsize. We have probably about three people now.
32:40And I love that there's already been many principles we've pulled out of your story, but I am curious Mhmm. Your advice Yes. For somebody that first comes up and is like, is this still possible to be a content creator full time?
32:53And if so, or if I wanna and I I actually love how, know, we have similar values in, like, not really flex economy Yeah. How we, you know, might steward or or manage our money.
33:05Yeah. But what I love about the creator economy is I think it's probably grossly overrated of becoming, like, a social media millionaire. And it's also grossly underrated of how practical it is to earn few thousand or a couple, you know, tens of thousands of dollars a year Yeah.
33:21As supplemental income. Yeah. Like, maybe you still got your main thing, but you could go more part time, you know Yeah.
33:26If you will, the long tail. So saying that, for the listener that would aspire, if they are starting from scratch today or thinking about some principles or how they might approach that, what just advice would you have for people that wanna go full time as a content creator? One, that this is a journey
33:39that they have to have in mind that if you do not wanna do this for ten years, don't even try. You think it's ten years?
33:46I don't I'm saying the Some people say three at least. Yeah. Yeah.
34:39And so that's why I say in you have to have that long term thought process of if I could do this for ten years, I'm good.
34:50Like, this is this is for me. Right? Then also being very balanced and or try to be balanced as much as you can with the creative and the business side.
35:01Did that come naturally for you? Or No. That did not come naturally.
35:04Which one did you have to learn more? Content? To learn more of the business side because I'm a natural creative.
35:09So the business side was a lesson, but I wish I would have focused on that sooner. Right?
35:16But because I had the side situation, I was able to focus on the creative more. And then when I wanted to be like, okay, this is full time, like, I I gotta get more into the business side.
35:31I gotta understand the different streams. I gotta understand and not the different streams like how typical entrepreneur creators talk about of, real estate and yes.
35:42Cool. I'm talking about my talent. How are we creating multiple streams with just my talent?
35:49The what people know me for. So being open minded to what are the from a business side, what are the different streams are we willing to try?
36:01Not stay, but just what are we willing to try? Are we willing to do the brand deals?
36:07Are we willing to do the affiliate and and broadcast other people's content, uh, other people's stuff that is not ours? Are we willing to get into the merch side?
36:17Are we willing to do courses? Are we willing to do events? Are we willing to do like, what are we willing to do?
36:24And being open to at least trying it once. And if you don't like it, that's okay. Like, it's all about building our, like, our monetizing creator formula.
36:35Like and and understanding that's gonna take a little bit of time. But because I'm trying some things, I'm gonna collect the dollar here. I'm gonna collect the 100 here.
36:45I'm gonna collect so the open mindedness of doing that has to be there. And then probably the last thing I would have to say is if it is not creating any type of fun or happiness after a while, let it go.
37:00Let it go. Let it go. Like, if you're not having joy doing it.
37:04Have to you have to let it go because the hardest thing to recover from is burnout. The heart like, it Have you been burnt out?
37:13I've been yeah. That's one of the main reasons why I had to stop the the podcast. I was burnt out.
37:18I was What did that feel like? Drained, impossible Like impossible to film more.
37:26Yeah. It is it was it just wasn't I didn't wanna come up with the ideas.
37:31I it it felt more like a routine now. Right? It didn't when I couldn't get more ideas, that's when I knew I was burnt out.
37:40Because one of the things that I do know that I can come up with an idea in two point three seconds. I'm very blessed on that one. Uh, but when that stopped, I was like, okay.
37:50There's something wrong. But let's go through this you know, sometimes you gotta push it through. Right?
37:55Some but sometimes you don't need to push it through. Sometimes the signs are really there. And you have to take the time to be okay, and it's not a failure.
38:06It's a lesson. Like, the podcast was not a failure. We did a 180 something episodes.
38:12That's not a failure. We build an audience. That's not a failure.
38:15Right? We had a YouTube channel that hit over 18,000 subscribe that's not a failure.
38:22It was more of, okay, here are the lessons. The season is done. Stop pushing yourself just because you're like, oh, we gotta be consistent.
38:30This is finally going to blow up the way that we the comparison drug is a drug that we need to stop taking.
38:40Okay? It is it is horrible because you look at especially from a podcast standpoint, you look at these podcasts that's been in the game six, seven years, and then you see them blow up. Yeah.
38:50So you're in year three, and you're like, okay. I got three more years, and then it's gonna go, but you're dying inside.
38:59Like, what was there's a statistic that most podcasts don't make it past three three episodes, you know, and and then even a smaller percentage make it to 20.
39:09Yeah. I should be celebrating that I made it to 20. For sure.
39:12I should be celebrating that we made it to 50. If we didn't do anything more, that's okay because so many lessons happen from that.
39:22But the the smarts of a really good creator is understanding when things need to die.
39:28Interesting. That's the best that's the best part you you need to learn is, like, when when do we need to let certain brands, certain products, certain services,
39:38when do they need to die? That's such good advice for, um, anybody that wants to go part time or full time. So many nuggets in there.
39:46I do have one, uh, additional question for you, but I want you to give a shout out. Uh, Think Media Podcast, of course, we'll link this in the show notes, and this is a two part conversation. The other part's all about your AI tools, genius workflows.
39:57We'll link to that episode in the show notes. But if people wanna follow you, where can they follow you at? This is Nikki's on all social media platforms.
40:34But, you know, in our community, we're watching our students. Recently. Sherry, she's 77.
40:40She had zero social media following Okay. Across every platform. Yeah.
40:44She had no platforms. She had just a smartphone, and we did a cohort for five weeks.
40:50Mhmm. She posted her first video at the end of co the cohort. She got 37,000 views.
40:55Just shot on her iPhone. Now, again, whole process, and it was about actually the passing away of her dog Yeah. Tapped into an identity of other people who've lost animals and pets.
41:06But the structure to it, super basic Yeah. But like an art form all the way through. Yeah.
41:11But what did it reveal? It revealed that you can start a YouTube channel. This is four weeks ago.
41:15You can start a YouTube channel right now. Wow. Post your first video Yep.
41:18And get 37,000 views. If that's possible Mhmm.
41:22Then it's not too late to start. No. But it is fierce.
41:28There are challenges. AI is disrupting everything. I'm curious kind of your perspective for people of what it means to navigate and go forward today, challenges and opportunities.
41:39well, I'll say opportunity. This is probably the best year to figure out who you are.
41:46What do you mean? Meaning, self awareness is what's gonna make you stand out in social media Mhmm. In content creation.
41:53The more that you are aware of who you are, your personality, how what makes you stand out, your childhood loves and everything like that is what's going to make you stand out from the AI stuff, from all the competition, because they're running off of a framework and you're running off of authenticity.
42:14You know? And so the the thing that even myself this year have tapped into when I talk about I I read this book, uh, Almanac of Naval. Right?
42:24And he talked about people tapping more into the things they liked as a as a child. Right? Because it has a pure effect of who we are now.
42:36And I had to tap into that of, like, okay. What are some of the things that I liked as a child that really can stand out in content creation?
42:46Right? I used to love music videos, so that breaks down why I love the visuals and the storytelling.
42:52I loved computers and and and all of that. That breaks down the educational educational side of me and always wanting to find out the latest updates and things of that nature.
43:04I used to go to camp, so that's why experiences are so important to me. And me being so aware of that makes me navigate how I create content, how I do the business side more because I'm leaning more on my strengths of what I had instead of, oh, that that happened in the past or, uh, I'm an introvert, so I don't even like doing these types of things.
43:26But the more that I'm aware of myself, the more that I can relate to people and give them exactly what they want because this is exactly what I wanted when I was coming up.
43:37This is exactly what I did. So I think even though we have so many tools, we have so much competition and everything like that, the still what is rare is authenticity.
43:46And that's why we hear that so much that people are so sick of hearing it, but because it's still not, like it's it's still not tangible.
43:56Like, not everybody is authentic. Not everybody is consistent, and that's why we continue to hear consistency. But I think if we tap more into who we are, do the personality test.
44:06Do anything that you can to figure out who you are. You're gonna become a better content creator in the business side. That's a really powerful tip at the end there and not just surface level stuff, and not just surface level authenticity,
44:18but really unpacking your childhood, unpacking, um, those unique things about you, growing in self awareness, becoming a superpower Yeah.
44:27To supercharge your content strategy. Serious gold, Nikki.
44:31Thank you. Grateful for you. And Think Media Podcast, like, rate, share, review wherever you watch or listen.
44:37If you made it this far, send me a massive love and respect and gratitude. My name is Sean Cannell, your guide to building a profitable YouTube channel. Cannot wait to connect with you in a future episode.
44:47Until then, keep crushing it, and we will talk soon.
The Hook
The bait, then the rug-pull.
Sean Cannell opens by naming the exact fear every aspiring creator has in 2026 — more competition, shifting algorithms, AI everywhere — before promising the answer is still yes, and handing off to a guest whose own timeline took seven grinding years to prove it.
Roberto Blake and Sean Cannell on device-first strategy, the clipping industrial complex, and why AI is the working-class creator's only competitive advantage.
AI strategist Nicky Saunders walks through the agent workflows, tool stack, and title formula that let small creators outperform channels with full teams.
A 72-minute conversation on personal branding as inner work -- origin stories, authentic pivots, value pricing, emotional lows, and why caring less about your audience makes them show up more.
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