The argument in one line.
Resentment persists because we refuse to acknowledge two things: that we have done what we judge, and that every painful event has also delivered measurable benefits we have chosen not to count.
Read if. Skip if.
READ IF YOU ARE…
- You have carried resentment toward a specific person for years and conventional therapy has not moved it.
- You want to watch a structured coaching method demonstrated live on a real participant, not described in theory.
- You are a coach or facilitator interested in question-based frameworks for emotional transformation.
- You believe negative thinking is a problem to be eliminated and want a rigorous challenge to that belief.
- You have experienced a betrayal you intellectually know was a turning point but cannot emotionally reconcile.
SKIP IF…
- You are looking for business or creative strategy — this is entirely personal transformation content.
- You want a quick takeaway; the method requires sustained, honest self-reflection to produce results.
- Watching a stranger process raw personal material in a group setting is not useful to you.
The full version, fast.
Demartini's method rests on two claims: whatever behavior you resent in someone else, you have done in some form yourself; and every painful event has delivered real, countable benefits you have refused to see. The session walks an anonymous guest through five instances where she did what she blamed her betrayer for, then catalogs the financial settlement, career independence, better parenting, and spiritual growth she gained from the very event she resented. Demartini closes with the argument that positive thinking is biologically self-defeating and that holding both poles simultaneously is the only authentic human state.
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Create a free account →Who's talking.
00:18guestDr. John Demartini
00:00hostChris Do
Where the time goes.
00:00 – 03:40
01 · Cold open and intro
Demartini states the central thesis; Chris Do recounts how he discovered the method through Tim Francis and Rohan.
03:40 – 08:00
02 · The method explained
Demartini describes 52 years of development, the information-theory basis from Claude Shannon, and the goal of finding hidden order in apparent chaos.
08:00 – 14:00
03 · Live coaching begins
Anonymous volunteer presents her fear of shining too bright; the backstory of a friend who exposed her affair surfaces.
14:00 – 26:15
04 · Reflective awareness
Demartini walks the guest through five instances where she did the same behavior she blamed on her betrayer.
26:15 – 44:40
05 · Counting the benefits
Systematic enumeration of how the betrayal benefited the guest: career independence, financial settlement, better parenting, stronger social circle, physical health, spiritual wholeness.
44:40 – 1:06:30
06 · Healing the relationship with self
The guest examines her own role in the marriage's disintegration — subordinating her career, living in her husband's shadow, and needing his approval to feel valued.
1:06:30 – 1:24:07
07 · Why negativity is your friend
Demartini's philosophical close: positive thinking is biologically self-defeating, hedonic adaptation proves it, and the unity of opposites is the only sustainable state.
Lines worth screenshotting.
- You can never have fear of the unknown — you can only have fear of the content your mind is imagining.
- Narratives do not get you anywhere; the only thing that moves you forward is identifying the specific act you judged, not the story around it.
- Whatever you judge in others you have done yourself — and the method does not let you off the hook until you find it.
- Every event you label as a betrayal has also delivered benefits across career, finance, family, and self — and those benefits are real whether you counted them or not.
- Infatuation with a loyal person attracts a betrayer to break your dependency on that loyalty.
- You only fear the loss of things you place above you; you do not fear losing what you feel below you.
- Two years of concentrated positive-thinking practice produced a net change of zero — hedonic adaptation returns everyone to their set point.
- Negativity is not the enemy; it is the mechanism by which nature breaks addictions to fantasies that cannot be sustained.
- The goal is not to feel positive. The goal is simultaneous contrast — holding both sides at once, which produces stability, not elation.
- Resentment is incomplete information. Any remaining charge on an event is evidence that the full account has not been taken.
- The quality of your life is based on the quality of the questions you ask, because questions make you conscious of what you have been unconscious of.
- You do not grow in pure support; challenge is the catalyst for independence. The person who withdraws from you often forces you to stand alone for the first time.
- Positive thinking was invented by Norman Vincent Peale to balance his own negativity — he admitted this on stage.
- When you subordinate yourself to another person's values, you will eventually attract the event that catalyzes your exit, whether you chose it or not.
How to dismantle a resentment that will not move.
WHAT TO LEARN
The Demartini Method offers a reproducible process for neutralizing charge on a painful event — not through forgiveness as a moral act, but by establishing two facts: you have done the same thing, and the event delivered real benefits you have not counted.
- Resentment persists when you hold an incomplete account of an event — once you count every genuine benefit it produced, the charge dissolves on its own.
- Before you can release judgment of another person, you have to find multiple instances where you did the same specific behavior you are condemning — vague similarity does not count.
- Infatuation and resentment are sequential contrast; the goal is to hold both the positive and negative simultaneously, which produces stability rather than oscillation.
- Every person who withdraws support from you is simultaneously catalyzing a new source of support elsewhere — support and challenge are conserved, they just change who delivers them.
- Two years of concentrated positive-thinking practice produces a net result of zero because hedonic adaptation returns everyone to a stable set point; the goal is integration, not elevation.
- Negativity is not a problem to eliminate — it is the mechanism by which you break addictions to fantasies that cannot be sustained long-term.
- The quality of your questions determines the quality of your self-knowledge; vague questions produce vague narrative, and narrative is what keeps you stuck.
- Fear is never about the unknown — it is always about the specific content your mind is imagining, which means it can be interrogated and dissolved.
- When you subordinate your values to another person's, you eventually attract the event that forces your exit, whether you consciously choose it or not.
- Guilt disappears when you see the benefits your choices produced for the people you believe you harmed — guilt assumes one-sided causation that does not hold under rigorous questioning.
- Any event you would have changed likely would have prevented the growth that followed; resistance to what happened is almost always resistance to the next version of yourself.
- Naming the fear as imagination rather than reality is the first move of the method — you can only work with specific content, not with the unknown.
Terms worth knowing.
- The Demartini Method
- A structured series of questions developed over 52 years that neutralizes emotional charge by surfacing hidden benefits and the perceiver's own matching behaviors.
- Reflective awareness
- The process of identifying in yourself the same specific behavior you resent in another person — not approximate behaviors, but the same act.
- Unity of opposites
- The principle, traced to Heraclitus, that support and challenge are always present simultaneously and merely change which person delivers them.
- Simultaneous contrast
- The psychological state of perceiving both the positive and negative aspects of a person or event at the same time, associated by Wilhelm Wundt with stability and authenticity.
- Sequential contrast
- Perceiving the positive and negative aspects of a person in sequence (infatuation then resentment) — associated with emotional instability and the impostor syndrome.
- Hedonic adaptation
- The psychological set point that oscillates positives and negatives back toward a stable baseline regardless of external events or deliberate positive-thinking practice.
- Values hierarchy
- The model that every person makes all decisions based on an ordered hierarchy of personal values, and that placing someone above or below you distorts perception of them.
- Entropic gravity
- Demartini's term for the psychological weight created when unresolved emotional charge accumulates in the amygdala and hippocampus, slowing and aging the perceiver.
- Amygdala and hippocampus
- The subcortical brain structures central to the method: the amygdala assigns emotional valency; the hippocampus stores episodic memories with time and place.
Things they pointed at.
43:00bookThe Power of Positive Thinking
1:24:00bookLetters to a Young Poet
1:17:00bookThe Principles of Quantum Mechanics by Paul Dirac
Lines you could clip.
00:03
“The quality of your life is based on the quality of the questions you ask.”
11:36
“Narratives don't get you anywhere. Even though therapists like you to think so, they're slow.”
14:43
“We only judge people on the outside that we resent for representations of parts of ourselves that we're ashamed of in ourselves.”
17:10
“It made me visible when I felt invisible.”
1:02:00
“Anything you can't say thank you for is your baggage. Anything you can say thank you for is your fuel.”
Where the conversation goes.
00:00 – 08:00steadyIntroduction to the Demartini Method
08:00 – 44:40denseLive betrayal-and-resentment coaching session
44:40 – 1:06:30denseMarriage dynamics, self-subordination, values hierarchy
1:06:30 – 1:24:07densePhilosophy of negativity, positive thinking, unity of opposites
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metaphoranalogy
00:00The quality of your life is based on the quality of the questions you ask. The questions you ask make you conscious of what you've been unconscious of. So it helps you expand awareness.
00:12You we run our illusions till we're ready for the truth. Truth kinda sets us free from the stories.
00:18Today, I'm sitting down with doctor John D Martini.
00:21He's a world renowned author, coach, speaker, and somebody you're gonna want to listen to. We use the stories because of all the moral hypocrisies we get indoctrinated about how people are supposed to be instead of seeing how magnificent they are in the journey. What you're about to watch is a live in person coaching session and it gets really uncomfortable, but we have major breakthroughs.
00:43Just know that any of the stories that you've had in your life, I I I went through this, I had this, and I challenged childhood and all that stuff, it's all bullshit. It's your perceptions, decisions, and actions on how to interpret it. You can be a victim of history or a master of destiny.
00:57It all depends on your perception.
00:59Out of respect for the individuals who participated in the conversation because it got really raw and real, we've elected to blur out their faces to protect their identity.
01:11This story begins, um, a little over a year ago, probably two years ago. I'm having dinner with a couple of friends, new friends, Tim Francis and a guy named Rohan.
01:19And they're both telling me about this remarkable person, separate stories, and I don't know the names of anybody just yet, except for I know what Tim said to me, which is if you could attend one workshop in your life, just one, this is the one that you have to meet, this man. He has an incredible way of helping people through some very tough, challenging, traumatic things in their lives.
01:37And I was really intrigued. And then the other story was the gentleman across the table from me, and name is Rohan. He was telling me about how he had, in the last couple of years, gone through some really traumatic stuff.
01:47His father died. His business partner stole money from him and stole the business, and then Meta Facebook canceled his accounts, which he had close to a million followers. He was devastated.
01:58And he was having a hard time, and he called his coach. And he was telling this whole story. I'm like, this is remarkable.
02:02This is incredible. Tim Francis just texted me. He says, do you know Rohan?
02:06When he was telling me that story, do you know who his coach was? I'm like, I don't know. I have no idea who his coach could be.
02:11He said, doctor John Demartini. Small world. So he's helped a lot of people through lots of things.
02:17He has something called the Demartini Method, obviously, and it helps people through some of their toughest roadblocks. And I'm hoping rather than just me extending the interview is that first, can just describe it so everybody here knows what's going on.
02:30And if there is somebody who has something they'd like help with for for doctor DeMartini to demonstrate, we can work on it together and see, hopefully, just the genius behind all of this. And I just wanna be a student here and listen and learn.
02:43The quality of your life is based on the quality of the questions you ask. The questions you ask make you conscious of what you've been unconscious of, so it helps you expand awareness.
02:56And the method, which I've been working on for fifty two years, is a series of very concise questions that help you discover the hidden order in the apparent chaos, the disorder.
03:14Claude Shannon in information theory basically said that information that's missing is in tropic and represents disorder.
03:25And if you reclaim the information, you can find the hidden order in things and why things are occurring, the meaning behind it. So it's a very series of concise questions to help navigate people from emotional distractions to poison presence so they can be grateful for their life instead of comparing it to an unrealistic expectation that they projected.
03:52And I've been blessed to use that and develop that for many years, and we've helped people in all different types of situations.
04:04I make a statement that there's nothing your mortal body can experience that your mortal soul can't love. So it doesn't matter what you've been through, what you've gone through, what you've experienced, it's your perceptions, decisions, and actions on how to interpret it.
04:18You can be a victim of history or a master of destiny. It all depends on your perception. William James said the greatest discovery of his generation is that human beings can alter their lives by altering their perceptions and attitudes of mind.
04:30So this is a science, a reproducible science that I've trained probably probably eight or 9,000 people in using, and they're using it around the world to assist people in navigating through the apparent chaos so they can look at life on the way, not in the way.
04:50Okay. You guys get that? Every word is a lot to unpack here, and that's how I felt last time when we were having our conversation.
04:59Just be quiet and listen and
05:01stay silent for as long as you can. Said listening to you is like .
05:08So how do we do this in the time that we have together? Because I know you have a heart out to be mindful of that. Is how do we do this so that we can get a taste of how this process works?
05:16Because I think I'm 100% bought in on this idea. The quality of questions you ask determines quality for life.
05:22When you start to ask questions, you start to look inward and understand, like, why you can overcome these things, and the perception of what has happened to you can drastically alter your destiny or where you end up. How do we do this?
05:34Because I just wanna give you your space. You do your thing, and I just wanna sit here and only chime in when necessary. That's great.
05:40Well, usually, we start with somebody that's got something they wanna work on. Okay.
05:45Sometimes I'm in a conference, and I'll ask people, does anybody have anything that they wanna work on? Challenges, conflicts, resentments, angers, grief, or anything, whatever it is that they have, and whatever area of life that they want.
06:03And then we usually people vote based on who has the most intriguing information or issue that they wanna work on, and we go there. We start there. And I I think there is something about
06:14the risk of being vulnerable if you want to get a reward. I remember many years ago when I was talking to my business coach about seeing a therapist, he said, if you're not going to tell the truth, don't even bother. Don't even bother.
06:24And so I went in there with the mindset, like, I hold back, I'm holding back for myself. So we can start with any kind of challenge, roadblock, anything traumatic, frustration, something that you've been trying to work through but haven't been able to.
06:38And we'll pass you the mic. I think the mic mic is working this time. Does anybody wanna start?
06:42And and, by the way, depending on what that is,
06:46sometimes I'm not using the Demartini Method to help solve it. So it depends on what it is. If it's if it's a conflict, if a resentment or an infatuation or a loss or something like that, I may use the method.
06:59Other times, I may use my work with the value applications. So if people are frustrated in their job, that may be a slightly different approach. Maybe combination.
07:08Okay. Perfect. I'm glad you said that in case it goes whatever direction it goes.
07:12Depends on what you're bringing. So what we're doing is in case that you're just joining us, we want you to volunteer anything that you need help with, and then we'll we'll just quickly vote on, like, who we'd like to who has the most intriguing problem for doctor DiMartini to put his brain on.
07:30Whenever there are multiple stories, narratives, I try to prioritize it.
07:38So narrow it down. We'll do like, I'm not gonna do them all. We're gonna narrow down what is the highest priority issue out of all of those things that you narrowed.
07:49What is the highest priority issue that you wanna address?
07:52The the the fear of being someone's gonna come at me if I if if I shine too bright.
08:03Okay. When you say coming at me, what does that mean to you?
08:08What does that conjure up? By the way, you can never have fear of the unknown. You can only have fear of the content your mind is imagining.
08:16Mhmm. So what is your mind imagining when you have that confronting you?
08:24That someone is going to defame me, is going to, um, undermine me, go out of their way to destroy what I've built.
08:35It's it's already happened.
08:38Okay. And out of all the ones that have happened that this is reminding you of, because the future is anticipated, but the things that are real that you've experienced, which one of those is the highest priority thing that you remember that was most painful?
08:53Um, I had a friend who was well, there's many, but the most the one that was really devastating is a friend of mine was jealous of my success, so she undermined my marriage and then What specifically did she do? Because undermining marriage is What
09:09did she do that you projected she undermined my marriage?
09:16She betrayed a confidence, and I wasn't ready to tell my husband something.
09:21And she So something you shared with her Yes. She shared with your husband Yes. Which you felt started to undermine the dynamic?
09:29Yes. Okay. Even though you were obviously sharing with her, there were some things in the dynamic that were concerning anyway?
09:36Yes. So she was revealing something you unconsciously desired?
09:43I was You wouldn't have said it to her. Okay.
09:47I'm gonna I'm gonna be so transparent. I had an affair, and I felt really bad about it.
09:53And I I was I was talking to her about how I should go about, you know, telling my husband and because she was jealous of the relationship and she had tried to She wanted him.
10:09She no. She tried to seduce the person I had the affair with and because she was rejected, she
10:16Went to bring you down? Yes. Right.
10:18And she did it pub very publicly. Her name is? Deborah.
10:23Deborah. Mhmm. Okay.
10:24So now I'm gonna start.
10:26Here goes the method. Thanks for doing this, by the way.
10:30Let's take Deborah as the individual we're going to do the work on because I can just do so much in such a short time. Yeah. Yeah.
10:37Yeah. What specific trait, action, or inaction do you perceive Deborah did that you disliked and despised and resented most?
10:49Let's narrow it down so it's not a narrative. It's a specific act that she did that you judged.
10:57She literally said to me, it's not fair that you have the life that you have, and I don't have what you have.
11:05So that didn't you made a claim that it undermined your marriage, so that by itself would not undermine your marriage.
11:13No. So what did are you upset because of that, or are you upset because of what she said to your husband? She told him that I was which one is the one you're rescinding?
11:23Probably that one that she told him. Okay. So let's get to that.
11:27Okay. Because otherwise, you're just doing narrative. People love to share their narratives, but narratives don't get you anywhere.
11:35Mhmm. Really. Even though therapists like you to think so, they're slow.
11:39I'm not interested. I'm interested in narrowing down what the issue is. Yeah.
11:43So what specific did you actually perceive her, or was it hearsay that she told your husband?
11:50He told me she told him. So it's hearsay.
11:55Somebody told you that she told him. Yeah. But you didn't actually perceive it.
12:02When you say perceive it, what do you mean? Didn't actually see her do this. No.
12:05No. No. No.
12:05No. No. So we don't even know for a fact other than what your husband said that that's what happened.
12:12Okay. So your husband claimed that she said the story, which is evidence, but you never saw her do it.
12:21I never saw her specifically or heard her do it. No. So you did not have anger at her until you found out that she he made a statement?
12:31Yes. And other people. But yes.
12:33Mhmm. So other people told you that she had said that? Other people told me that she had bragged to them that this is what she was going to do, and then yeah.
12:42Okay. So are you upset with the idea that she bragged about what she was gonna do? The idea that your husband stated that she said it?
12:51I think it was the that she would she was bragging about publicly taking me down.
12:57Okay. So your the the highest priority thing that you judged in her was that she bragged about taking you down, and we have hearsay that she confronted and told your husband.
13:12Correct. Okay. Let's work with that one for a second.
13:16Because it sometimes we have a convoluted series of things and we have to kinda narrow down what the issue is. I love your questions.
13:25And sometimes it's it's, uh, hearsay. Mhmm. And I don't like working with hearsay.
13:30I like working with something factual that you perceive so we have something tangible.
13:35Now the roughest part. There's a quote in Romans two one from the New Testament that whatever we judge in others, we're doing the same thing.
13:46Interesting. So let's define what she did again. She bragged about taking you down and then told your husband.
13:55Mhmm. Told somebody that that something you didn't want her to tell. So now let's go to a moment in your life where you bragged about taking somebody down and told somebody exactly what you're seeing in her, find out where it is.
14:12Now I've done this on about a 150,000 people.
14:17And every time people say, I can't think of any. Don't know. I don't know.
14:21None of that works with me. We're gonna be accountable here in order we get a result. So let's not think of where we I don't know.
14:28I can't remember. I think out where we've done it. Because we only judge people on the outside Mhmm.
14:33That we resent for representations of parts of ourselves that we're ashamed of in ourselves. That we don't wanna look at. Yeah.
14:39So let's go. Go to a moment where and when you perceive yourself displaying or demonstrating the same behavior where you bragged about taking somebody down and negating them and because of jealousy, and you actually told somebody to try to undermine them?
15:01The the earliest one I can think of and the only one I can think of is is my mother.
15:05Okay. And it's the same behavior? It's gotta be the same action.
15:10I did it. I took her down publicly.
15:13Okay. Because the only reason somebody is drawn into your life Mhmm. Is because we have a shame inside.
15:19We dissociate from it. We get proud, try to judge other people for what we're actually hiding inside, and we don't wanna face that.
15:26We've done that, and we're still carrying a hurt and a shame about doing that to the mom. Yeah. So and you said what about your mom publicly that undermined and got back to her?
15:38I don't remember what I said specifically.
15:41It was just there was a group of people in every shame without their memory of it. I was just making fun of her.
15:48About?
15:50Um, I don't remember what I said.
15:56What did she do that you wanted to make shame of her or not do?
16:02That she made she made a mistake.
16:05Of?
16:09Probably a lie she told.
16:11Okay. So she made a lie in your mind, and you didn't like the repercussions of that, and you were trying to bring her down and humbled her.
16:19Yeah. K. Because go to the moment when you did that.
16:22Mhmm. You there? Mhmm.
16:23When you actually said the thing? Mhmm.
16:26Okay. Where were you at that moment? I was in Chicago in our apartment, and there was a group of people and a man told me to stop.
16:35Okay. And when when was this?
16:39I was probably about 20 years old, 1920.
16:44Okay. The reason I'm asking those is, uh, the amygdala, which is a subcortical nuclei in the brain, assigned valency to stimuli and experiences that we have, and it assigns valency to the hippocampus, which is a little seahorse shaped structure, and it is the source or storage place of episodic memories that have a time, a place, a direction, a lay a location, and a distance.
17:11So if I narrow it down, I go into the hippocampus, and I access that memory. And and that's where we're storing shame or we're storing our own stuff. So you're there at that moment?
17:24Mhmm. And who specifically did you tell? There were about four people there.
17:30So you then and I was entertaining them with this story. Okay. And did your mom know any of these people?
17:37Yes.
17:38So then you you said things behind her back No. In front of her. In front of her, okay, that she felt humbled by.
17:46And you kinda did that because she had lied, and so you did it as kind of a Payback. Payback. Okay.
17:52So in that moment, can you see you did the same thing as this lady did? Yes. Great.
17:58Now and they all perceived you did this and your mom? Yeah.
18:03K. Great. Go to the next moment where and when you've done the same behavior again.
18:10Oh,
18:13this is icky. Um, I was working.
18:20I was I don't wanna say where, uh, but I was working in a corporate situation, and somebody had sexually harassed me and there was this opportunity for me to
18:42Disclose?
18:43No. No, No.
18:46I did disclose it to my boss. I went through the proper channels.
18:51And then when this guy got promoted, he demoted me. So, um, there was new management that came in.
18:59And I don't need the story. I just need the I'm trying just trying to People like to want them to run their stories as a dodging mechanism. I just want the answer I ask.
19:07Go to the moment where and when you did it again, and where did you do exactly that? Try to bring somebody down and say something to somebody to try to undermine them, somebody that could get back and affect their life?
19:23I guess it was a situation where he was being berated by our boss, and I I took glee in that.
19:33So that's not the act that's the question I'm asking. Okay. Where did you do what this lady had done to you?
19:41Said things behind to somebody and tried to bring you down.
19:46Where did you do that? You tried to bring him down?
19:51No. I was just somebody else did, but I was I I talked about how he had it coming. So I don't know if that's the same thing.
19:58Who did you say that to? My team.
20:02So you spoke to the team and kinda let them know some of these things as a way of kinda diminishing him Mhmm. And these are people that knew him Yes.
20:12Or knew of him? Yes. So in that case, did you do the same thing that lady did in that moment?
20:19It's not exactly the same. Well, yes, I did. I took glee in some
20:24bring somebody down and to go behind and say things about them. Yes. Yes.
20:28Mhmm. So is that the same? I think so.
20:31Maybe not the same magnitude, but the same. Yeah. It's not yeah.
20:34Great. That's number two. Go to number three.
20:39When you're when you're owning reflections, this is called reflective awareness and transparency. We usually go all the way for till 20 examples are done until there's an absolute certainty that what you perceive in them, you have.
20:54Because as long as you're too proud to admit what you see in them, you're gonna self righteously project your values onto them and condemn them and hide your own shame and cover it up with pride. And the amygdala likes to hold on to pride and hold on to fantasies about how people are supposed to live in our values.
21:10So that's why I'm gonna go go again. Because whatever you perceive this person doing, you've done to the same degree. And I've been doing that for about forty one years and never had anybody that couldn't find it if they just kept looking.
21:23So let's go to number three. Okay. And now they're coming.
21:27That's right. They're there. That's why we keep attracting whatever we condemn.
21:32Okay.
21:34Yeah. The next situation, I was I was a board chairperson, and this person had been disrespectful.
21:43And so
21:45I interested in where you did it. I know. Read the narrative and story.
21:48Okay. Sorry. I just need to know where you did it.
21:49I made sure that that everyone
21:52on the committee knew
21:54what this person had done prior. And you wanted to do that to kinda bring them down from their pride and arrogance and put up Yeah. And you told people that you know could affect them.
22:06Yes.
22:07So you did that's the third example of where you've done that? Yeah. Let's go to four.
22:12Well, these are all different time. I'm zig zagging. One at a time.
22:14No. But I'm just saying it doesn't matter if they're chronological. Right?
22:17Doesn't matter where it is. But just one at a time. Just think of one because you think of 15 of them, you can't you won't process one.
22:24Just one. Probably
22:27when my Not probably. Oh, okay. When my stepfather was arrested.
22:36Okay. You don't want the story. Okay.
22:38So he was a doctor.
22:40I don't need the story. I just need to know what where you did something and said something to bring somebody down and went behind their back or told people
22:48that could affect them? I don't think this one counts because it was so public.
22:53It was public? Yeah. It was on the news and everything.
22:56So Yeah. But where did you tell somebody that led to bring it to try to bring somebody down and people found out about it?
23:06If it went public, then that's even a bigger issue.
23:08No. This doesn't apply. Sorry.
23:10You understand the line of questioning from doctor DeMartini. Right? Yes.
23:13He's asking you for actions that you took where you Well, you did the same thing this lady did to you. I guess I just
23:19told people what he did and how how it And did some of that get back to people that could affect him? I don't know. I I honestly don't know.
23:31Did he get to the police that could affect him? What? Did he get to the police that affected him?
23:37No. They he had already been arrested. Okay.
23:40So did you do were you attempting to bring him and lower him and expose him? Um, I think to some because he got away with something?
23:49No. He didn't get away with it. No.
23:51But you thought he had gone away got away with something. He was trying to get away with it. And were you trying to bring that down?
24:00think that to undermine any
24:04attempt for him to redeem himself and because he was making excuses, yes. Okay. Were you doing the same thing the lady was you thought the lady was doing to you?
24:12Yes. K. We got four.
24:14One more. Oh. Just because of time.
24:16You got it. Okay.
24:18You're lucky we're not going to 20. Oh my god.
24:21Probably my last yeah. Probably. Okay.
24:25Go to a moment where you did the same behavior she did again. Another moment in your life where you've done that, where you've attempted to, you were partly jealous, you want to bring the person down, you felt that it was unfair, so you want to bring them down and you exposed and said things about them behind that affected them.
24:46Um, it was a former partner, and I said some things to some people who would have been able to affect whether he got rehired in in the sitch situation.
25:03Okay. And in that moment, you can see who you shared it with.
25:07You can remember where it was and when it was. You there? Mhmm.
25:11So in those five examples, would you acknowledge that those five examples are different variations but of the same thing? Yep.
25:19K. Fantastic. I'll I may come back to those, but just because of time Mhmm.
25:23I'm gonna go on to my second little question. Go to the moment where and when you perceived that she did this behavior and tried to undermine you and tried to do something, go to the moment when you first perceived it.
25:42The actual moment you perceived she did that and you were angry.
25:47Okay.
25:48Is this when he told you and spoke to you? Mhmm. So go to the moment when he began to speak about it, and now you resented her for exposing something you said even though you didn't see her do it.
25:58You had some evidence from him. Go to the moment you felt resentful to her at that moment, and let me know when you're there.
26:09The moment your husband's speaking up about it, and now you're aware that she did. Okay.
26:15I'm there. You're there? Great.
26:16Mhmm. How did that benefit you at that moment?
26:21You have spiritual benefits, intellectual benefits, business benefits, financial benefits, family, social, physical.
26:30How did it benefit you in your career?
26:36It didn't. Mhmm.
26:38I don't ask questions. I don't have answers. Oh.
26:40How did it help you in your career? Everything has both advantages and disadvantages. If you choose to see the disadvantage, you become a victim of history.
26:48You look at the advantages so how did it benefit you in your career?
26:54You were somehow unfulfilled in the relationship. Yeah. I I was able to come out from behind his shadow.
27:00Say that. Say that because you're gonna have a tear when you say it. Say it.
27:04I was able to come out from behind his shadow. Say it again. I was able to come out from behind his shadow.
27:10Okay.
27:11And you had been sitting in his shadow, and you wanted out of his shadow, and you were not and that's when you had the fling, you had somebody that was giving you acknowledgment.
27:21Yeah. And you were living in a shadow
27:25instead of on the shoulders and equals. It made me visible when I felt invisible. Exactly.
27:30Okay. So you were unfulfilled.
27:33That's why you were looking for somebody to try to bring in fulfillment. Anything you're not willing to do with your mate, you gotta be willing to delegate. If the man's not doing something that's fulfilling your needs, then you'll find somebody else to fill those needs.
27:43Pretty normal. Mhmm. So you got out from under their shadow.
27:49And how did that help your career?
27:53Repositioned yourself with your power? Yeah. Can you see you were hoping for that and wanting that?
27:59Mhmm. So can you see that the lady actually catalyzed you to be able to go and do what you wanna do? Yeah.
28:04Did you ever give her a percentage of the income that you earned No. As a as a consultant?
28:12No. K. How did they help you intellectually?
28:16What did you learn as a result of him speaking up, saying that? What did you learn that was valuable in your life?
28:26I learned to that it wasn't my job to sacrifice for somebody else's happiness.
28:33Okay. So anytime you infatuate with somebody and put them on a pedestal, you'll minimize yourself and inject some of their values into your life and try to live in their values, which is futile.
28:42Mhmm. It's non sustainable futility. And you had some infatuation with a man initially, apparently.
28:49So you learned that lesson. What's that worth?
28:54Oh. Put a dollar value on that. Oh my god.
28:59At least a couple million.
29:02Okay. But you never gave any of that to the girl, the lady that helped catalyze that freedom and that lesson? No.
29:09Okay. Because somehow we don't see that people are not in in our way. They're actually on our way, their actions.
29:16How did it help you actually financially?
29:22When he's go back to the moment when he said what he said, and it led to the relationship breaking down, which is actually a liberty to you, but we don't always wanna admit that.
29:34And, um, how did that actually help you financially and put some real dollars on that?
29:41Well, in the settlement, I got money.
29:44Okay. And did you invest that?
29:47Yes.
29:47And is that giving you compound in passive income? It was no longer, but yeah. It did.
29:53So you then chose to use it and put it into a house or something? Yes. K.
29:58A lifestyle instead of investment.
30:01Well, it was a home. Yeah. Yeah.
30:04But a lifestyle.
30:05Yeah. That's not just an investment. Passive income is an investment.
30:08A lifestyle is a house. Yes. So that was your choice.
30:12But, actually, the money, which was an amount, could have been put into assets.
30:17Well, I did I did some of that too. Yeah. I put it in my kid's college.
30:21Yeah. Just I'll come back to this. Okay.
30:24So it helped you financially because you got a house, and you had a desire for a house. Did you have a desire to have a house?
30:31Well, I wanted to live somewhere. Yeah. Okay.
30:34Mean, but I did want house. Renting and investing the difference, you you chose to have a house. Did you want a house?
30:38Yes. So did she help catalyze you getting your own house? Yes.
30:42And do you now design it and organize it the way you want Yes. Instead of his or yours together?
30:50Yes.
30:52So you got financial remuneration. You got liberated intellectually on some things about not subordinating to other people, which is a basic reclaiming of your own power.
31:03And you also got catalyst into drive driven back into your career?
31:09Mhmm. And did you go more into your career with more gusto? Yes.
31:12And did that give you some advantages in your career?
31:15Yes.
31:16But you didn't thank her for that? No. Okay.
31:19And how did it help you in social circles?
31:24Did it screen out people that were not really engaged in your your long term mission? Yes.
31:32And did did you then prioritize and select people that were more in more in line with your mission? Yes. So didn't you you were living in the shadows through those other people, through your husband, and now you've shed those Yes.
31:43That you thought were friends? Yes. That were friends to him?
31:46And I didn't thank her for that either. No. But now you're now selective with people that are more engaged in what you're up to Yes.
31:53And understand your mission? Yes. What's that worth?
31:57Oh my god. A life.
32:01So she's helped you have your life back, your finances back, the house if you want, your career engagement, and you've learned a great deal about not living in subordination to anybody else.
32:13Correct. Nobody's worth putting on pedestals or pits, but they're worth putting in hearts. So now let's go and look at how did it help you physically.
32:22I got in great shape.
32:24Did you get workout Yeah. Back on the back on the market? Well, not right away, but yes.
32:30Well, but you went back into shape because you know that fitness is and looks is one of the key elements for dynamics. Well, it's my self image.
32:38You know? Okay. So then you got to develop your self image so we can add that as another benefit?
32:42Yes. So you got a self image out of it. You got back in shape.
32:47You got some cash flow out of it. Got a house. Mhmm.
32:51Um, how did it help your family? Your you have children. Yeah.
32:55How did it help the children?
32:59You know that doesn't work with me. I know. How did it help the children?
33:02That's what I feel guilty about, my daughter. I'm gonna dissolve that.
33:11How did it help the children? You only feel guilty when you assume you did an act that caused more pain and pleasure to somebody in the future from the in the past, pardon me.
33:21If you see the benefits to them, that's gone. So, otherwise, you'll sacrifice and subordinate to her pleasing her.
33:30Right.
33:31What you're doing? I was more present and probably not probably.
33:36I was more present. I was a better parent. Say that again.
33:39I was more present and a better parent. Okay. So then this lady, by her saying what she did,
33:45helped you in the dynamic with your children Yes. Be more present.
33:50Yes. What's another benefit to your children? Do you have two children?
33:54One? Um, well, one from that marriage.
33:57One from that marriage. So that's when you're addressing. How else did it help her?
34:02To her. Right? Mhmm.
34:03How else did it help her when this lady did that? Yeah.
34:07Um, I think because of the different moving around that we did, she blossomed as
34:13So your daughter got to blossom. Mhmm. She became more independent probably.
34:17Mhmm. And you got to be more of a present with her. Mhmm.
34:22So what did you think you did that was guilt generating? You didn't see the benefits? That should you know, her father wasn't in the same house.
34:31When the father wasn't there, who became the new father figure? Nothing's ever missing. It just changes form.
34:38So who became the new father figure? Mentors, coaches, best friends, older men?
34:44Yep. What's the benefit of them becoming the father figure instead of him?
34:49They were more present for her.
34:53So by you by what happened, this lady catalyzed it so she could do it. Now when your husband left, did he leave, or did you leave?
35:03I left. Okay. You left.
35:05Who became the new woman in his life that he starts to train again? A new one that he gets to train.
35:13Um, how specific do you want me to be? There's a series?
35:18What? Is there a series of them? No.
35:20It's somebody who almost has my same name and looked like me. He's now in the next training program. He's teaching the next training program, and she's gonna learn the lesson and get to grow some more too.
35:33So what what's how did it help you in your spiritual path?
35:41Having this lady go back it's it's gotta go back to the lady No. I know. Understand that.
35:45She's saying. How did it help you spiritually in your spiritual awareness? Whatever whatever inspires you is your spiritual path.
35:51What exactly how did it help unfold an inspiration for you?
35:59Bigger vision, new possibilities,
36:01new New possibilities, seeing myself as a whole Say that.
36:06Seeing myself as a whole being. Say that again. Seeing myself as a whole being.
36:15What's what's that? What's the value of that?
36:18It's
36:19Isn't that what authenticity is? What's that? Isn't that what authenticity is?
36:23Yes. We sometimes exaggerate ourselves or minimize ourselves. Mhmm.
36:28And we have these impostor fragments, the parts. And when we integrate them, we get to be authentic and whole.
36:36And that's individually as a whole. Individual means undivided. You're not a person, persona, mask.
36:44You're an individual whole. So you got to grow spiritually Mhmm.
36:49Intellectually, mentally. In other words, socially, financially, your business, what is it you're upset about on What's the problem?
37:02What's what's what are you judging her for that you haven't done?
37:07And by the way, when you've done this, it's also catalyzed greatness in other people, but you not may not have ever seen it. Yeah. You may have felt bad that you did it.
37:16But the reality is that everybody gets to grow in these dynamics. If they don't grow, it's because not because of what happened, it's because they've chosen not to see the blessings in it. They're making themselves victims of history, not masters of destiny.
37:30I'm just helping you be accountable to see that you're actually on track.
37:35The lady was a perfect catalyst to catalyze something that you were contemplating in your mind about getting out of that marriage. Mhmm. But you didn't have the courage to do that because you didn't wanna have the feeling the responses from people judging you for jumping out of your marriage, and you had to have to have the perfect person to come in and help you catalyze it.
37:54Someone to blame.
37:55Someone to to use as a scapegoat because you didn't wanna be the one that said I'm breaking up my marriage because of an injected value from probably a mom or somebody else in your life. Am I hitting it?
38:06Oh, yeah. So what's another benefit of this whole thing happening besides us having the time to get to meet today?
38:14Yeah.
38:15And thank you.
38:17Well, I just live in my truth now.
38:21Oh, what's that worth?
38:24You can't put a price on that.
38:26Now I'm gonna ask you another wild question.
38:31At the moment, go to the actual moment that he said this again, and he said that she told him about these things.
38:44What exactly did he say that she said?
38:49Or what did you believe at the moment he disclosed what he did that she had done?
38:58What did he actually say? Yeah. He asked me point blank if I was having an affair, and I said yes.
39:05Okay. Then
39:08he said, because Deborah called me and told me.
39:12Okay. So because Deborah told him, he then was he intuitive and already kinda wondering?
39:20No. So he's a naive. Focus on his work or something or was he painting?
39:24Working. Okay. You know, there's a there's a price for every marriage, every relationship.
39:29They may be highly intelligent, but they know it all. They may be hardworking, but they're hardly there.
39:34They may be a great sense of humor, but it's the same story. Never get a pleasure without a pain. There's always a pair of opposites like a magnet.
39:42So that is wise to not go after a a idea in a relationship that I'm gonna get a pleasure without a pain because that's not gonna happen. Every every relationship's got something.
39:53It's a picadelos they call it. Yeah. That's a word I haven't heard in a while.
39:57Now go to that moment when he said that and you felt in a sense that that's when you judged her. She was saying something derogatory about you that you didn't want anybody to do.
40:10What would be the opposite behavior of that if somebody is saying something derogatory about you to somebody and and exposing something, what would be the opposite?
40:22Somebody holding a secret back and keeping a secret about you? Would that be an opposite? Yeah.
40:28At the moment when she was to he he declared that she had disclosed that information, who is doing exactly the opposite to you at that moment, keeping a big secret and loyal to you at that moment?
40:40Because anytime you are infatuated with a loyal person, you have to have somebody that behind your scenes does the opposite, betrays. You never heard attractive betrayal unless you're addicted to a loyal. Who are you addicted to that was loyal to you that you trusted and kept secrets to at the moment she he spoke?
41:00Who else did you tell that you knew you could trust? Oh, I was You knew his loyalty would not say a word.
41:08My therapist.
41:09Ah. Were you highly involved in your therapist at the time?
41:15She she was helping me. Yeah. But you were in engaging her and telling her all your stuff, and she couldn't disclose it?
41:22Correct.
41:24Because anytime you get infatuated or like somebody that you can disclose your narrative story to that can't say anything or undermine that, you attract a betrayer to break your addiction to that because you don't grow in that.
41:39That keeps you stuck. Yep. So you get the person over here to make sure that you actually break through the stuff that you're judging in yourself.
41:47Mhmm. So just know that your dependency on her at the time is part of the reason why this also catalyzes. Because otherwise, you're dependent on her, now you're the just like you were infatuated and playing underdog to the man, you were doing that to the to the therapist.
42:03And as long as you're underdog to the therapist, you're gonna have somebody to break your addiction. Anytime you infatuate somebody to become dependent on them and fear the loss of somebody, you attract somebody who comes in there to break that addiction
42:14Yeah. Makes perfect sense. To strengthen that.
42:18Makes sense? Absolutely. Now I'm gonna ask you another wild question and reverse question.
42:22Okay. Go to the moment when you found out she did it. If she never told him that and never tried to bring you down and did what you hope she would have done, kind of the fantasy.
42:36Because you only resent somebody because they don't match the fantasy of the opposite that you hold on to. So if she had never told him and was in never putting you down and trying to take you down and supported you like your therapist, what would have been the drawback to your life today?
42:53I would have been still I was stuck. Stuck?
42:58Did you ever thank her for helping you get unstuck? No. Can you see you've matured and grown quite extensively since this moment?
43:06Oh, yeah. But you never thanked her. Right now, her name is Deborah.
43:12Right? Right now, if Deborah was sitting in front of you, what would you tell her?
43:19I probably would apologize.
43:21Apologize for what? What did you think you did to her that would need apologies? Apologies assume that you did something that caused pain to her.
43:30I guess I then thank her. Thank her for What what did you think you need to apologize for? What did you think you did that you caused Because of all of the You withdrew from a friend?
43:42What? Did you withdraw from a friend? Oh, yeah.
43:45I withdrew, and I I just harbored resentment.
43:49Good.
43:50How did that help her?
43:53By harboring resentment? How did it help her? How did it help her?
43:57Whenever we get somebody that's resenting us and withdrawing from us, we also get people that come close to us that infatuate with us. So who had her on a pedestal infatuate and got closer to her as you were withdrawing from her and resenting her?
44:11Oh, she she got married.
44:13What if you found out that you contributed to her having a man that supported her at that time?
44:20That would be good. Wasn't she a friend? Wouldn't she want her to find a man she wanted?
44:24Absolutely.
44:27Would you feel guilty about that? No. What would you wanna tell her now?
44:32You imagine her in front of you.
44:35I would I would tell her that I'm really happy that she's happy, and she has a child, and she has a good marriage. And I think I mean, I think Do think that maybe you the dynamic that happened between you made that possible?
44:46Catalyzed part of that? Yeah. Did you ever thank yourself?
44:50No.
44:52Sometimes we don't see the hidden order that's going on in our life, and it doesn't match the stories and narratives and the moral hypocrisies about how life's supposed to be, and then we judge it all instead of miss out and instead of seeing the magnificence that's actually occurring.
45:11So right now, what would you say to her about her saying the thing to husband?
45:17What would you say to her? You've got a lot of benefits out of it. You want her to live the rest of her life not knowing what you gained from that?
45:27No. I probably would. I I would tell her that I there were a lot of benefits that came out of that.
45:32It was it was hard
45:34and What was what was hard? Go you know, going through it. Mean, it would aspect of it was hard?
45:40Uh, the breaking apart of everything.
45:42You know? What was what was easy about that?
45:46I felt relieved.
45:49That's why was it hard?
45:53You had you had to adjust and face the truth about what was happening?
45:57I had to face my shame about not stepping up and taking accountability when I was feeling hurt.
46:05So I I probably created a situation where somebody could hurt me more.
46:10So I feel What what what what did you what who and what hurt you? The husband? Yeah.
46:18I just What did he do specifically to hurt? I'm now going off on another little chart. Um, he dis disengaged.
46:25Okay. What did you do to make sure he disengaged?
46:31People only disengage when they're not getting their values met. If I'm talking to somebody and I'm meeting their values and needs, they're totally engaged. If they disengage, it means somehow they're not getting what they want in the dynamic or in conversations with you.
46:47What were you doing to help him make sure he was disengaged?
46:52Well, clearly, I'm not ready to accept that because I'm I No. That that no. No.
46:57That's not works here. Yeah. Was
46:59it that you were frustrated because he was working? Yeah. He was And you didn't honor his work?
47:05That was one of his highest values. Mhmm. Everybody lives according to the hierarchy of their values.
47:11Mhmm. They make decisions accordingly, whatever will give them the greatest value. If somebody they're with is not understanding what their highest value is and is, in their minds, trying to get them away from what their highest value is, they withdraw.
47:27How has him working so extensively helped you when during the time you're with him and he was working so extensively?
47:34How did that benefit you? Oh, provide gave us a nice life. It gave us Did you give him your house afterwards?
47:41Yeah. Yeah. And during that time when he was working so hard, where did you put your energies?
47:47Children?
47:49I was helping him with his business and
47:52raising my our daughter. Yeah. Okay.
47:54So you were putting energy in the daughter and also business. Yeah. And were you getting paid for that?
48:00So you're just sacrificing and and helping him in his business and assuming he was gonna take care of things, which he eventually did. Yeah.
48:06Yeah. So you wouldn't have done it unless there was some sort of, in your perception, advantage over disadvantage out of doing it because nobody moves a muscle without an advantage over disadvantage.
48:15So what advantage are you getting out of taking care of him and doing that for him?
48:19What what was the advantage?
48:21Yeah. You wouldn't have done it if there wasn't advantage. You would have withdrawn.
48:24I just think I repeated the cycle that I grew up in. That that that didn't answer the question. What's the advantage you got consciously?
48:32Probably being a victim.
48:34No. That's no. That's not the benefit.
48:37That's a story. Okay. What's the benefit you got out of working and helping him in his business?
48:43What was your hidden agenda? Nobody moves a muscle with automotive. Oh, I I wanted him to succeed.
48:48For what reason for you?
48:52Lifestyle? Long term objective? Long term objective.
48:57What was the hidden agenda? Oh, the hidden agenda. Wanna make sure you got to a certain level so you got enough to be able to when you when you wanna have the affair and divorce him, you got something?
49:04No. No. Yeah.
49:06Okay. Then go go to what was the real objective there. Nobody is altruistic.
49:11Yeah. They have a hidden agenda or compensation for guilt and shame in the past when they're doing altruistic acts. Okay.
49:16I think I'm getting lost in all the words, but I just I wanted to prove my value to him.
49:22And did you?
49:26I thought I didn't,
49:28but Did you feel that you were on a underdog position? You had to be. All the signs are showing it.
49:34Yeah. So you wanted to make sure that you contributed to him because you felt like you were getting a good deal.
49:41I needed to feel valued By him.
49:47By him. And
49:49So you didn't feel you were being valued for him. Who had you on a pedestal that overvalued you? You never get undervalued without overvalued.
49:55So who overvalued you at the time? Who had you on a pedestal? Well, he did.
50:02Okay. Well, that's confusing because you just said I need to prove a value to him and you're saying he overvalued you. Weren't that contradict?
50:09Did, And then it then it waned and so I was trying to earn that. Waned and he wasn't valuing you, who picked up that part? Who started valuing you besides your therapist?
50:20My daughter. Ah. So in the family dynamic, she started putting a value on you as he was waning.
50:27Okay. What was the benefit of her doing it, not him? You got to feel more like a a decent mother because you came back and said that you want to contribute more and be even a greater mother.
50:37Yeah.
50:38So you got the benefit of being acknowledged as a mother by the daughter during the time when he waned. Yeah. We have very good relationships.
50:45Found out that there's always a balance of support and challenge, praise and reprimand that's conserved through life, and it's just morphing and changing forms through people. And when he withdraws, somebody else picks it up.
50:59Absolutely. And when he's doing it, you become addicted and subordinate to him.
51:05And you began to grow. When your daughter started supporting you, you just started gaining some independence.
51:12Can you see that happened? Yep. So can you see that that her doing it was lifting you up and making you stand more as an equal, which is leveling the playing field.
51:22And he was used to you being the underdog, and all of a sudden you're now not playing there, he's withdrawn and trying to find somebody else to give him the attention. Yeah.
51:31I can see that now.
51:33So right now, then when he's devalued you like that, what was the benefit to you?
51:40You started your independence. When somebody praises you, you become juvenile dependent. When somebody criticizes you and challenge you, you become precociously independent.
51:51If he hadn't done that, you would have been trapped. I would have felt like I couldn't rise above him because then I would lose him. Oh my god.
51:59Yeah. You only fear the loss of things you got above you. Mhmm.
52:02You don't fear the loss of things you go below you. One's prey, one's predator. So right now, what did he do or she do that's not part of the journey that was needed?
52:13It all worked out. And and But there is something I would have changed here. What would you have changed?
52:19I would have put my foot down because my career was going great in New York, and I wouldn't have left. I would have insisted we stayed.
52:26So you got infatuated with a guy and sacrificed your career for a fantasy guy. So you're not probably going to do that, are you? You probably learned a lesson.
52:35Yes. So he taught you the value of that Correct. Because you thought that you needed a man for your identity.
52:42I just didn't wanna do things alone. I wanted to, you know, wanted to partner with you're alone.
52:51I'm alone anyway. Yeah. Yeah.
52:54Alone and not alone are always balanced in life. There's a part of the pair of opposites that just change form and morph again. Yeah.
53:00So right now,
53:02uh, what would you change different? It would have been nice to have that feeling.
53:09What feeling? The the feeling that I I was enough.
53:13You know? And who is when he was not doing it, the daughter was doing it. Yeah.
53:17And who else was doing it besides the daughter? Because they're balanced.
53:24For twenty five years, I've been demonstrating in people's lives that you can't get one without the other because of the law of contrast. Mhmm. You can't judge something without its equal and opposite contrast being there to be able to perceive.
53:35So if somebody's criticizing, there's appraiser. You don't see it. You run the story.
53:39I'm a victim of criticism. I'm a victim all my life. You don't get anywhere that way.
53:43When you see both sides, you realize that I had a transformation of who is supporting and challenging me throughout my whole life. Yes.
53:50That's mastery. So who was praising you besides your daughter at the time and had you kinda on a pedestal and made you important? Wanna include you in in the life?
54:03Friends? Yeah. My friends.
54:06Social circles and friends? Social circles.
54:09I was taking a course at the time and learning a new skill. And those people and the teachers and people on that? Mhmm.
54:15So can you see that him doing that work and withdrawing allowed you to get the support from those people and the daughter.
54:23Correct. But wasn't that necessary for the next step? Was it necessary for the next step?
54:29All that education and every all that information. Wasn't that part of your network and team and knowledge you needed to go the next step? Correct.
54:35Yeah. So where have you not been on track?
54:40I've been on track. So what's it like to realize you've been on track the whole time? There hasn't been an air in this whole thing.
54:46I can let all this crap out. The illusion go. Yeah.
54:49Yeah. Yeah. So right now when you look at your your husband, can you see he played a perfect job in this?
54:55Your daughter played a role. Deborah played a role. So if Deborah's sitting in front of you again, what do wanna tell Deborah right now?
55:01Thank you, Deborah. Do you wanna say to her? I said, thank you, Deborah.
55:06Okay. Yeah. Now is that a little lighter than you started?
55:09Oh, hell yeah. Is the narrative that you had completely looked differently?
55:12Yes. Okay. Now we've only did about two or three little columns out of the the exercise.
55:18There's 80 columns in it. Okay? So we could just keep going with it.
55:23Yeah. But we're getting somewhere. I don't think she can handle it.
55:25We're getting somewhere. Yeah. By the way No.
55:27I'm gonna go journal about this. It's like Okay. Just know that any of the stories that you've had in your life, I I I went through this, I had this, and I challenged childhood and all that stuff, it's all bullshit.
55:39Okay. And I you may not believe me, but if I sat with you for a period of time and we narrowed it down one by one, you would be in tears of gratitude for what happened in your life.
55:50And then you'd be liberated from the story that you've run that we we run our illusions till we're ready for the truth.
55:59The truth kinda sets us free from the stories. We use the stories because of all the moral hypocrisies we get indoctrinated about how people are supposed to be Mhmm. Instead of seeing how magnificent they are in the journey.
56:11Somebody once asked me if I had if there was a year that I would eliminate, you know, in my life, which one would it be in and I, you know, just like queen Elizabeth said she had the Anna's horribilis.
56:24I said, you know, 2005, but I wouldn't do it because then I wouldn't have met you,
56:30that person. You know? Well, anything you can't say thank you for is your baggage.
56:33Yeah. Anything you can say thank you for is your fuel. Yeah.
56:37So you you can decide to be a victim of history because you're comparing current reality to a fantasy and how it should have been, would have been, could have been, or you can be a master of destiny to be able to see through and navigate it and realize there's nothing that I or other people did that's not part of the journey that was needed to help me move forward.
56:56Yep. Because you said things were being held back, but I haven't heard anything that's really holding you back. Just me.
57:02Sounds like you've been growing and doing and expanding in the areas that are important to you. Yes. But we can run that narrative sometimes.
57:10Mhmm. Sometimes we compare ourselves to other people. Anytime you compare yourself to somebody else and put them above you, you're gonna inject their values.
57:17You're gonna try to envy and imitate them, as Emerson said, which is futile and a form of suicide. And you'll eventually learn the hard way that that's futile and nonsustainable. Yeah.
57:27And eventually, you get the symptoms of that to wake you up, to not put people on pedestals. Nobody's worth putting on pedestals.
57:34There's no guru out there. There's no teacher out there. There's no saint out there.
57:38There's human beings out there. I've met enough gurus out there that people think are all somehow one-sided or enlightened or whatever. No.
57:46They're just human beings. We're all just human beings, and we're not worth putting on pedestal pits. We're worth putting in hearts.
57:52And now you've got Deborah Moore in your heart than when we started. That's our objective. Yeah.
57:56And that's I didn't realize how
57:58how clung onto that it was because it's still harboring.
58:01Yeah. Yeah. That's why I'm not interested in your story because the story is anytime you have an emotional story, you have incomplete information.
58:08Yes. Anytime you have thank you, I love you, we got we got we're getting somewhere.
58:13Yep.
58:15Thank you. So that's at least a start. Round of applause, everybody.
58:19Wow.
58:24Thank you to everybody for your patience. Thanks for doing that. How much time was that?
58:29Forty minutes? Forty five? Yeah.
58:32About forty five. I think we have Forty, forty five minutes.
58:35I I have my own reflections on this, and I could not help but to feel some of the feelings that she was sharing and, you know, having my own kind of replaying in my life.
58:46What is it about our human nature that we tend to focus on the negative and not the positive? Because if you keep doing this, it seems like we're all exactly where we need to be, and we learn the moment we appreciate
58:58all that's happened. When I turned 18 years old, I I was living in Hawaii as a big wave rider surfer. And I left there, and I came to Texas to visit my parents.
59:09So I left home at a young age, 13. My parents saw that I wanted to go and learn how to read and go back and try to learn again. So I was inspired by Paul Bragg who helped me believe that maybe someday I could be intelligent because I was told I would never be able to read, write, communicate, never mount a thing, never go over in foreign life when I was first grade, and I end up not I didn't read till I was 18.
59:31So I got inspired, and I started back.
59:36And my parents bought a set of books, a little triplet book by Norman Vincent Peale, The Power of Positive Thinking. So I read this book, and I thought I need to be more positive.
59:49And I was reading it with a dictionary because my vocabulary was limited, but I tried and tried and tried and tried to be positive, positive, positive, positive. But no matter what I did, I'd I'd falter. I'd have some judgment on myself or on somebody else or whatever, and I thought, what am I doing wrong?
1:00:05And so I got a whole collection of self help books thinking I was gonna eventually get there to a positive pole of a magnet without the other pole. And no matter what I did, I kept faltering.
1:00:16I'd have negative thoughts. So I said, well, maybe I need to go live to the seminar. So it's starting at age 20.
1:00:22I started attending seminars. I went to a live seminar with Norman Vincent Peale. He stood on stage and he says, you probably know me as the father of positive thinking, but I must confess before you today that I am one the most negative thinking people you've ever met.
1:00:36And the reason I wrote the books on positive thinking is to help balance out my negativity. And I was the only one applauding. Everybody else was, like, shocked, and I was applauding.
1:00:45And then I went to, you know, I went to the national speakers, and I met Earl Nightingale and his brother, and I met Debbie Clement Stone, and I met, you know, tremendous Jones and Jim Rohn and all these speakers. Right? And I got to interact with them and hang out with them and find out about their lives and stuff.
1:01:03And as I was emerging from 18 year olds, I wanted to be a teacher, and so I was started my teaching career. I got to meet those people, and every one of them had both positive and negative. And so I thought, why are we teaching something nobody's living?
1:01:18And I remember Paul Dirac, a Nobel Prize winner, he wrote a book in 1947 called the principles of quantum mechanics. And he said, um, it's not that we don't know so much, it's we know so much that they didn't sell.
1:01:32We're taught misinformation. Political and theological systems like to be in the guilt control the the guilt producing control business.
1:01:42They love to create a moral hypocrisy that nobody can live by so you can feel ashamed so they can control you with the fantasy of the afterlife and the the eternal damnation, eternal salvation, you might say, or the control of some projected moralities of society. So I started realizing, you know what?
1:02:02And it took me a decade to finally realize that no matter how hard I'm trying to do, I'm not getting positive without negative.
1:02:10They're coming together as a pair. And I'm supportive and challenging and nice and mean and kind and cruel. Heraclitus, the Greek philosopher, talked about the unity of opposites.
1:02:21And Paul Dirac got his information from particle and antiparticle physics from that idea. And I thought, the unity of opposites just makes more sense to me because I'm having the unity of opposites. I'm having both.
1:02:33And the dialectic and the propositions of of arguments and law and then to the history from the time of Zeno through Aristotle to Hegel and all these philosophers, they all were talking about the unity of opposites, bringing and synthesizing these pairs of opposites.
1:02:48And I thought, I wonder what would happen if we did that in our in our mind. We took the positive negatives and integrated them in our mind. Could we liberate ourselves from the intrusive thoughts and the the things that occupy space and time in our mind that run our lives?
1:03:01Because anybody that's highly infatuated can't sleep at night. They got insomnia because they're on the alert that I got food in front of me. Don't wanna lose it, so I'm awake.
1:03:09Or if I got somebody I'm resentful, it's a predator. I gotta stay awake because I could get eaten. And so we have this insomnia, which is symptomatic, trying to let us know we have imbalanced ratios of perception about people that were storing in our mind causing these difficulties sleeping.
1:03:26So I set out to answer the question, is there such a thing as positive thinking by itself? So at age 28, I took 300 bestselling books on positive thinking.
1:03:38I underlined every positive word in those things and compiled those into a 2,000 index cards list. And I wrote a book.
1:03:46You can find it online, 2,000 quotes to the wise, a day by day guide to inspirational living by doctor Demartini. Published it 1983 on the most positive words and the most positive meditated affirmations and quotations that could be stated by that.
1:04:02And I put this book together, and then I decided I was going to quote those divide that into three hundred sixty five days. I put five to six quotes per day.
1:04:10I decided I was gonna chant them 108 times like the rosary beads or the Joppa beads by the the International Society of Krishna Consciousness, and I'm going to go through and inculcate my brain with the most positive words, the most positive statements, the most positive things I could, and then monitor and measure on a day by day cycle forecasting form the seven areas of my life to see what impact it's having on my life.
1:04:34And I did that for two years every single day, four monitorings a day, seven, eleven, three, and seven, and monitored what impacted saying nothing but positive words and nothing but positive statements impact my life and I monitored it.
1:04:50And at the end of two years, I got a Texas Instrument calculator out, if you all remember those, and I calculated all the fluctuations of all the highs and lows and positive negatives I had during the time I was concentrating most intensely more than anybody I'd ever met on positive thinking.
1:05:09And it came out zero. And then I learned something that I could've learned if I had just studied. I learned that there's a thing called hedonic adaptation that each of us have a set point that automatically oscillates our positives and negatives and brings us back.
1:05:23We also have a moral licensing effect. Anytime we get proud, we give ourselves permission to do something to undermine it to make sure we feel shame to get us back in equilibrium. We do something ashamed.
1:05:33We do something to go pride. We go and work out. We then give ourselves permission to drink wine and eat and do things as a homeostat to try to keep us to the set point of our authentic state.
1:05:44So I realized at the end of it that it was a pointless thing to try to be one-sided. The Buddha said the desire for that which is unobtainable and the desire to avoid that which is unavoidable is a source of human suffering. So instead of trying to get one half of a magnet and try to get rid of the other half a magnet, is futile, I finally embrace the positive and negative.
1:06:05And I started asking, why do we have negativity? And I found without certain without the uncertainty about it, that the second you have negativity, it's because it's there to break your addiction to its opposite pole.
1:06:18So anytime your amygdala, which wants to avoid a predator and seek a prey, it wants to create a positive without a negative, a pleasure without a pain, a happy without a sad, a peace without a war. It's trying to get a one-sided world that doesn't exist. And the moment you do, our negativity through our intuition comes out to try to break that addiction.
1:06:36Because if we get addicted to that, we become juvenly dependent on it, and we don't grow. So we have to have the other side in order to grow again. So nature brings us back to the unity of opposites, which is our authentic self.
1:06:47I'm both hero and villain, nice and mean, kind and cruel. I'm not a one-sided individual. Neither none of us are.
1:06:53There is no such thing as a one-sided interview. There's no heroes out there. Any religion that promotes it or any politics that promotes it is a farce.
1:07:01Because when you really get to know somebody after you marry somebody, they got both sides. Giving yourself permission to be whole, which is exactly what all this was giving you, transcends the illusion of trying to get a positive out of a negative.
1:07:15And trying to get rid of half of yourself is futile. You'll never love yourself if you're trying to get rid of all your negativity. It's pointless because you need it.
1:07:22You need it to break your addictions to the fantasies. Your executive center in the forebrain, which has foresight and strategic planning and is more the integrated center of the soul according to Scientific American September 2022, shows that our real self is that integrated self, not the fractured parts.
1:07:42So as long as we're striving for a one-sided world, the other side has to smack us. So negativity is an absolutely essential aspect of human behavior.
1:07:54It is pointless to try to get rid of it. It's needed. Learning what it's trying to reveal to our minds is important.
1:08:03And most well, I found 15 most common reasons why we have negativity. We have unrealistic expectations on others to be one-sided, not both sided.
1:08:13We have unrealistic expectations that others are gonna live in our values, not their own. The combination of those two, we have an unrealistic expectation that we are going to be one-sided, so we have negative towards ourself.
1:08:25Why am I not positive? I've had a negative. I feel proud when I do this.
1:08:28I feel shame this way. We become bipolar. Unrealistic expectation us to live in other people's values like your husband, unreal or a combination of those two.
1:08:37Unrealistic expectation on the collective society to be living one-sided, final peace. Global peace index across the world shows a balance of peace of war across the world year after year after year, but idiots think they're gonna get a one-sided world. You need both to grow to transform just like you need the sympathetic nervous system and the parasympathetic nervous system for catalyst, for catabolism, and anabolism to destroy and build in your body for you to adapt to changing environments.
1:09:02The world needs that. And the unrealistic expectation on the collective society that everybody's gonna live in your values.
1:09:10When I spoke at UNESCO, United Nations, I I trained 75 delegates there and cracked their fantasy that everybody the world would be at peace if everybody would just follow their values.
1:09:23Delusions. But we live in a delusion because our amygdala runs most people's lives, primarily because we've been taught we're supposed to get rid of half of ourselves and be one-sided.
1:09:33And we can't love ourselves or other people as long as we're striving for that which is unobtainable. So there's a series of reasons why we have negativity and the negativity is not our enemy, it's our friend because it's letting us know when we have unrealistic expectations. And our depression is a culmination of all those unrealistic expectations that do affect our biochemistry, but our pharmaceutical companies want you to believe it's because there's a lack of their drug, which is not true.
1:09:59It robs people of their power. There's nobody that has depression that can't transcend it. Guaranteed.
1:10:05I could just get warmed up.
1:10:09And we're out of time. I don't know. I'm I'm speechless.
1:10:13Oh, what's up, Milka? Based
1:10:16on what I heard from you as a designer where everything that you're thinking saying, I'm trying to, you know, put it together as an image. I came with this image and please help me if if if I'm it's very simple. I've simplified all the things that you've said is that there's this cup which is half full and half empty and based on whatever all the things that you heard that's what I'm envisioning that it's up to us how we see life either half full or half empty.
1:10:47It could be like maybe one ounce water and the rest empty, but that one ounce water is still a blessing. It's not seeing one or the other. It's seeing both simultaneously.
1:10:57Got it.
1:10:59Wilhelm Wand, the father of experimental psychology, 1897 text, said that when people see simultaneous contrast, they have stability and authenticity.
1:11:11When they see sequential contrast and there's an arrow of time and entropy and disorder in the perception, you have inauthenticity.
1:11:20You have the impostor syndrome or the persona, the masked parts that we wear. So if we are infatuated with somebody and we're unconscious of the downside, and then later we resent them and we're unconscious of the upside, which most marriages do.
1:11:35There's a sequential contrast. There's a separation between the positive and negatives.
1:11:41Anytime there's a separation, positive and negative, we're unstable. We have disorder, missing information. If we can see both of them simultaneously, that's why when you go out on the first date, you might as well get it out of the way, get it on the table.
1:11:54Find out what that is. Imagine me on a first date. Right?
1:11:57You'd tortured.
1:12:01Yes. But my girlfriend does the same work, so she's right there. She just holds me accountable.
1:12:07So I was in the Ritz Hotel in 1991 with my wife at the time who's passed away.
1:12:15And we were listening to the prince and princesses of Japan on their honeymoon.
1:12:23They just got married. They're now the empress an empress.
1:12:27But they were at the Ritz having dinner adjacent to us, and they had a 500 page document, both of them, and they were asking each other questions to get to know each other that were handed down for generations in Japan that were wise questions, really wise questions, to help get to know the individual and break through the facade that they are when they're first together.
1:12:57Really believe that would be a useful tool for most people because you fabricate the the amygdala, when it sees prey, it creates a positive feedback system and a false positive in order to create adrenaline to be able to run fast enough to capture the prey.
1:13:15And so what we do is we generalize and distort and exaggerate the positives and have false negatives and subconscious disconfirming biases on the negatives at first to feed our fantasy instead of actually ground ourselves with quality questions.
1:13:31Better to get those questions out and save yourself enormous amounts of fantasy and unrealistic expectations.
1:13:40That's why the quality of our lives based on quality questions we ask. If we ask quality questions so this this couple, this prince and princess, were doing something in in balancing out the romance with a reason and making sure they got to know each other.
1:13:58If this happened, how would you respond? If this happened, how would you respond? If I did this, how would you respond?
1:14:03And it was offloaded for traditional questioning, so it wasn't an attack on them.
1:14:11It's just thought provoking questions to make you aware of you as a human being transcending the delusive fantasies that society tends to impose on marriages, which are costly in society.
1:14:29So a wise thing to do. That's why the quality of our lives based on quality questions.
1:14:35So I'm I'm a lover of questions because a question makes you conscious of what you're unconscious of. My questioning made you conscious of what you're unconscious. And you feel you probably feel lighter now.
1:14:47Yeah. Anytime you have emotions and valency and charge and you're stored in the subconscious mind, is the neural correlate, which is the amygdala and hippocampus, you create what is called entropic gravity.
1:15:04Eric Verlin's work, you wanna look it up. You create entropic gravity and you weigh yourself down. It ages you.
1:15:11Aging is a the a result of entropy and the arrow of time separating memory and imagination in the sequential contrast of awareness.
1:15:21So the second we bring those into synchronicity, we empower our life again. When a bank gives you a credit card and you go shopping and you get pleasure and thirty days later, you get pain, they help you become addict to consumerism because you assume you can get a pleasure without a pain.
1:15:39When I grew up, we had a layaway plan. You deferred gratification and you paid things, and then when you paid it off, you finally got it. That is much healthier and much more stable for a society to have deferred gratification because immediate gratification cost long term vision and deferred gratification pays investment wise, relationship wise, every area of life, health wise.
1:16:04So separating the inseparables, dividing the indivisible, labeling unlabelables, naming ineffitables, and polarizing unpolarizables go against what Empedocles and Heraclitus said two thousand six hundred years ago and undermine human potential.
1:16:21So I try to bring them back by the questions we ask.
1:16:28I'm sure you're familiar with this piece of literature, but everything you're saying right now is remind me of one of my favorite quotes by Rainer Maria Rilke about learn to live the questions, and maybe someday in the distant future, you will be able to live your way into the answer or something like that. I'm butchering it.
1:16:44But everything you're saying, it's it's really interesting. We want answers so desperately. Desperately.
1:16:49I feel like as humans, we want the pain, the suffering to be done, to be gone. And so every time you're talking about the quality of the questions, just keep thinking about what he says in that the letters to a young poet is is the book. And he says, do not try to get get the answer.
1:17:06He basically says, if the answers were given to you, you wouldn't even be able to live them. So learn to love the questions. And I feel like that's what you so beautifully display in your career and what you did today.
1:17:17And I think I may have to go to the seminar this weekend.
1:17:23We'd love to have you. It's my mission.
1:17:26I've done it 1,246 times. This will be the one thousand two hundred and forty seventh time I presented it.
1:17:31You keep such a distinct
1:17:33record of all the the other books you read. Who's doing this? Or how are you?
1:17:37I do it every day. I document everything.
1:17:40This this show will be on in my gratitude journal. I have 9,378 pages of journals.
1:17:49Tracking this on, like, a computer and old Word document.
1:17:53Amazing. By the way, there's a 12 step program, survivors of Demartini. You can join that.
1:18:01Just less of a question, but more of a observation in how I an epiphany that I had a few years ago going through a job loss, and and someone told me that, Chris, this is a gift and this, you know, bad negative thing that was happening to me. And then I just relends my whole life at that point in time going back. And then, of course, going forward after that, everything that you appear that appears to be negative or bad, it really truly is a gift.
1:18:28You see that as, like, a gift for us, just giving you something new, giving you're gonna grow from it, something is gonna happen, walk through that door. And when, uh, if if it didn't happen, you would be stuck.
1:18:42So thank you for coming out. Summarized
1:18:45and said in 10 words what I just took 300,000 words to say. Your wisdom out Sean me on that one.
1:18:53Well, thank you. Thank you for being here. Thank you.
1:18:55Thank you. Yeah. By the way, the word passion that so fervently is promoted today, if it you look at its etymology, it comes from passio and pati.
1:19:06Pati, which means to suffer. Compassion means to suffer with somebody.
1:19:12I have no interest in passion or compassion or the affections that Aristotle warned against. I'm simply interested in helping people discover their mission.
1:19:25Missing the ions. The charges are not there. Missing the ions.
1:19:29Not passing between the ions.
1:19:33The dharmic path, not the karmic path.
1:19:38The equanimity of the Christian construct or the myth or construct of the path of the sun.
1:19:47You could give any religious construct or philosophical or perennial wisdom. You can see your way of saying the same thing, the unity of opposites.
1:19:56I remember in I think it was 1985, I saw an illustration in Time Magazine when they used to do the little stories at the bottom, and it said that these scientists had actually discovered weightlessness.
1:20:07And they did a little diagram, and they showed I don't know if it's neurons, ions, eons, whatever they are. But if all the positive ions were going in the same direction and the negative ones were, you had weightlessness.
1:20:21You had that zero like, kind of when you were saying that, that's what I was visualizing. The But when they're knocking against each other is when it drags you down.
1:20:30There's there's subtlety to what you're saying. The the antigravitational effect of a noncharged state.
1:20:39A photon is spaceless, timeless, massless, and chargeless. When it leaves the Milky Way and comes here 26,000 light years away, it arrives the same time it left.
1:20:53So to somebody who's enlightened, there's no time. Timeless mind, ageless body. But when whenever you have charge, you have space, time, mass, and charge, you're living in a conditional state.
1:21:04Fermions versus bosons, they call it in physics. And when you do, you now are subject to mass. I call it mass consciousness versus master consciousness or enlightened consciousness.
1:21:16So there is there is a just a beautiful way of integrating the particle physics world with the psychological world, not just as a metaphor, but in deeper levels.
1:21:27As Erwin Schrodinger in his one mind construct on mind and atoms that he'd wrote about, he described it. He was a mystic from the Eastern Vedanta, but at the same time, he was a great scientist and gave rise to the Schrodinger equation, which is one of the greatest equations we know in physics.
1:21:49So that it was the mystic and the scientists that join. True science and true religion don't fight. Pseudoscience and pseudo religions are constantly fighting.
1:22:01Doctor de Martini, if you don't tell us, we're gonna keep you here forever. Do you need to leave it some time? I do need to go.
1:22:07Okay. So They just they just they just notify you. Just notify you?
1:22:11Okay. Yeah. They just because I was told very specific instructions not a minute after a certain time.
1:22:15Girlfriend
1:22:16my girlfriend just said, the plane just touched ground. Okay. So I'm Time I won't be in a doghouse if I don't pick her up.
1:22:22Okay. Let's not we don't want that positive or negative energy, not
1:22:26not on us. I I just wanna thank you for doing this. You and I just met over the Internet a couple of weeks ago, and you've been super generous to be here just shortly after us talking, and I wanted to experience this.
1:22:40I wanted my friends and colleagues to experience it, and I think it's truly remarkable and special. What I just wanted to say was I thought, okay.
1:22:49That was pretty deep, and it just never ends. And you were saying, we're only on column two of 55 or something. Yeah.
1:22:54We're just like, we scratched the surface. Like, how you hold at it and just this dimension, that dimension, it was just really just just awesome to just witness and see.
1:23:04And she worked through this path of starting from a deep place of resentment. And I felt that when she said that because we've we know each other and how you moved her through all the different ways of not seeing this. And and then having her just to come to the to the realization that there's a lot of gratitude.
1:23:22She owes a debt to this other woman, Deborah. Right? Because you would not be here had Deborah not set all these things into motion.
1:23:30And I keep imagining that had she not spilled the beans on you, you'd be living with tremendous guilt and would be eating you up inside the entire marriage. And it would crack one way or the other with or without her assistance. And so I think she accelerated your growth.
1:23:43And it's hard to see that because we we'd rather blame people. We go into it, the more profound,
1:23:48magnificent appreciation you get.
1:23:50Wow. Okay. Thank you very much, everybody.
1:23:53Please leave me a round of applause. Thank you so much.
The Hook
The bait, then the rug-pull.
In 45 minutes of live, unscripted questioning, a 52-year method dismantles a woman's decades-long resentment toward a friend who betrayed her — not by offering comfort, but by forcing her to admit she had done the exact same thing five times over.
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